viewtopic.php?p=23015445#p23015445

subramak1 wrote:

At the risk of going off topic, this does not show government promotes anybody. Government of India ( and credit to ABV and MMS leadership too), has developed capabilities to rescue companies that don't do well. Satyam was a classic example of an issue that was resolved well. IL&FS is a case where government refused to bail out the company but has managed the situation well. Did it impact other Financial institutions, yes, but I think there was a message sent clearly.

If Mr. Ajay Singh cannot run spice jet and it has issues, it is for their lenders to deal with this. The fact that they are dealing with it, is very important.

And the issue with Tata group debt, I think they are doing their best to resolve them. CORUS acquisition was a stupid idea at the top of a commodity boom. It cant be helped now. Other businesses can be turned around.

Subramanian

Not really, the Satyam issue even today continues to rear its ugly head. In fact, as early as March 2021 this year itself -

https://www.moneylife.in/article/sc-dis ... 63113.html

While I have shared just one issue, there are multiple issues. Even Tech Mahindra hasn't been straight but then it would become a whole different ball-game altogether. The murkiness that plagues Indian industry knows no bounds.

The same is the case with ILFS. There is no proper resolution of the issues till date. In fact, 3 deadlines have already been given and passed and fourth one given.

https://www.moneylife.in/article/govt-g ... 65180.html

Now, as far as Tata's investments in UK are concerned, consider all of them dead in water. UK itself doesn't have any huge market. When UK was part of EU, then it served as gateway to EU. That is the power they had. But now that they no longer are part of EU, the competitiveness is gone. Population of UK is around 70 million, Maharashtra my state population is around 112 million. JLR doesn't really have a vision as ICE vehicles are passe and their EV offerings which will launch in 2024 is 4 years too late.

China would be eating their breakfast, lunch and dinner by them. September sales of China BEV -

https://insideevs.com/news/542665/china ... ember2021/

By year-end most people who keep an eye on Chinese market predict that the BEV market in China will be around 40-50 of the total car market in China. There are almost 400+ Chinese EV companies who are competing in that market. Absolute ruthless.

One possibility is that JLR sells the brand and the equity to a Chinese EV maker at some attractive price. They could still make some money. You can look at the JLR mockup of its upcoming truck and you can see what is being sold. Seems clearly, JLR hasn't learned any lessons

pune wrote:

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=23015445#p23015445

subramak1 wrote:

At the risk of going off topic, this does not show government promotes anybody. Government of India ( and credit to ABV and MMS leadership too), has developed capabilities to rescue companies that don't do well. Satyam was a classic example of an issue that was resolved well. IL&FS is a case where government refused to bail out the company but has managed the situation well. Did it impact other Financial institutions, yes, but I think there was a message sent clearly.

If Mr. Ajay Singh cannot run spice jet and it has issues, it is for their lenders to deal with this. The fact that they are dealing with it, is very important.

And the issue with Tata group debt, I think they are doing their best to resolve them. CORUS acquisition was a stupid idea at the top of a commodity boom. It cant be helped now. Other businesses can be turned around.

Subramanian

Not really, the Satyam issue even today continues to rear its ugly head. In fact, as early as March 2021 this year itself -

https://www.moneylife.in/article/sc-dis ... 63113.html

While I have shared just one issue, there are multiple issues. Even Tech Mahindra hasn't been straight but then it would become a whole different ball-game altogether. The murkiness that plagues Indian industry knows no bounds.

The same is the case with ILFS. There is no proper resolution of the issues till date. In fact, 3 deadlines have already been given and passed and fourth one given.

https://www.moneylife.in/article/govt-g ... 65180.html

It is really a stretch to say that Satyam is an issue still. The company has been dissolved, what could have been a big blow for Indian IT industry became a non issue. IL&FS is a fairly complex one, but so far it seems on the right track.

Again, you can say glass is only half empty. In case of Satyam it is done and dusted. 822 crores is nothing compared to size of IT industry in India today.

Best, Subramanian

pune wrote:

Now, as far as Tata's investments in UK are concerned, consider all of them dead in water. UK itself doesn't have any huge market. When UK was part of EU, then it served as gateway to EU. That is the power they had. But now that they no longer are part of EU, the competitiveness is gone. Population of UK is around 70 million, Maharashtra my state population is around 112 million. JLR doesn't really have a vision as ICE vehicles are passe and their EV offerings which will launch in 2024 is 4 years too late.

China would be eating their breakfast, lunch and dinner by them. September sales of China BEV -

https://insideevs.com/news/542665/china ... ember2021/

By year-end most people who keep an eye on Chinese market predict that the BEV market in China will be around 40-50 of the total car market in China. There are almost 400+ Chinese EV companies who are competing in that market. Absolute ruthless.

One possibility is that JLR sells the brand and the equity to a Chinese EV maker at some attractive price. They could still make some money. You can look at the JLR mockup of its upcoming truck and you can see what is being sold. Seems clearly, JLR hasn't learned any lessons

Economy of UK is around 2.6 trillion. GDP of Maharstra is probably half that. Jaguar already has an I-pace. I would not write off large companies that easily. They know more about their business than you and I do.

subramak1 wrote:

pune wrote:

Now, as far as Tata's investments in UK are concerned, consider all of them dead in water. UK itself doesn't have any huge market. When UK was part of EU, then it served as gateway to EU. That is the power they had. But now that they no longer are part of EU, the competitiveness is gone. Population of UK is around 70 million, Maharashtra my state population is around 112 million. JLR doesn't really have a vision as ICE vehicles are passe and their EV offerings which will launch in 2024 is 4 years too late.

China would be eating their breakfast, lunch and dinner by them. September sales of China BEV -

https://insideevs.com/news/542665/china ... ember2021/

By year-end most people who keep an eye on Chinese market predict that the BEV market in China will be around 40-50 of the total car market in China. There are almost 400+ Chinese EV companies who are competing in that market. Absolute ruthless.

One possibility is that JLR sells the brand and the equity to a Chinese EV maker at some attractive price. They could still make some money. You can look at the JLR mockup of its upcoming truck and you can see what is being sold. Seems clearly, JLR hasn't learned any lessons

Economy of UK is around 2.6 trillion. GDP of Maharstra is probably half that. Jaguar already has an I-pace. I would not write off large companies that easily. They know more about their business than you and I do.

Just one model compared which again would come 4 years later and whose future carbon credits would all go to Tesla. This is as per agreement today. You are talking about a holding company which has 11 of it in losses and many of them for years. I have been a shareholder. I had asked them, years ago, what they taught about EV's , and they had said it was a fad. They have had a knack for mis-reading the market.

https://bking.in/tata-nano-failure-case-study/

Now the only company which has been making money is TCS but even there it is going to be squeezed.

https://www.thehansindia.com/business/i ... 022-691194

This reduced headcount may put up profits in the short-term, in the long-term would be the death knell for the industry. Both the figures of people employed and the slash of headcount is being shared by Nasscom. Surely, they know what is happening. And subsequently, there would be margin on pressures from customers. Again, doesn't need a Ph.D. to tell that. Just few days back, Cognizant reported 33% attrition rates, the highest in the industry. The bloodbath is yet to come.

When L&T reports 67% YoY low, it tells you where the Indian economy is -

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 310439.cms

And they are bell-weather as they do so much of India's infrastructure development.

The way the economy is going, it is going to tear itself apart.

The only part of Indian Railways which was in profit has now to forego it -

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 460_1.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/ind ... 07187.html

How uncomfortable those coaches are is shared in the article itself. Apart from that less than 8% fare difference between 2 and 3 AC

Whatever little trains are running, they are running at special fares, three times the normal fare. These tactics are being applied all over. An example -

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 318990.cms

As far as JLR is concerned, there is more than enough here that tells you the troubles the company is in. -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/jaguar-land-rover

JLR has always been a basket case, usually of broken parts and unreliability of their vehicles especially in the North American market and with a number of owners in the UK, Ford and currently one from India. They can only sell on looks, 'British' luxury but what good is it to have a vehicle you pay big money for be a piece of unreliable junk after a few months or years.
Tata also has some strange investments in North America. One of them is a coffee brand 'Eight O' Clock' at one time part of the long gone A&P supermarket chain. At some point Tata will spin off some of their riskier investments to save the core company.

pune wrote:

As far as JLR is concerned, there is more than enough here that tells you the troubles the company is in. -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/jaguar-land-rover

Almost all car manufacturers are in the poopy with chips running out, BMW has closed several factories, so have others.

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

As far as JLR is concerned, there is more than enough here that tells you the troubles the company is in. -

https://www.theguardian.com/business/jaguar-land-rover

Almost all car manufacturers are in the poopy with chips running out, BMW has closed several factories, so have others.

Agree but to an extent only. Ford with SIAC motors actually just opened a factory for EV systems and sub-systems in China just a week back.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/10/gm ... -in-china/

Btw the above was first discussed in March 2021 according to GM, from that to this within 5 months, for me at least it is simply unbelievable. I do know that China does a lot of 3D modular building schematics and also uses 3D printing heavily but yet am surprised at the speed of the above.

In fact, in China while traditional ICE vehicles saw almost 20% damp on the overall market, EVs had doubled and tripled their sales YoY -

https://insideevs.com/news/542665/china ... ember2021/

damp/contraction is what I meant.

Just saw this about Volkswagen -

https://insideevs.com/news/521666/volks ... ns-2021q2/