https://www.businessinsider.com/southwe ... nt-2021-10

If a pilot has such poor judgement to broadcast his politics to pax, should he be allowed to fly planes? Is Southwest this desperate for pilots that they have to hire unsafe, socially inept pilots?

Completely disgusting, and certainly socially inept, but unsafe?

Sorry. That is a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled. As far as the pilot being "unsafe", how on earth are you passing that "poor judgement" on the pilot based on a PA announcement?

As far as I know, the pilots at all of the majors have very high standards for skills, knowledge, etc.

Reminds me of the "rolling coal" announcement that a WN pilot made (inadvertently on the tower frequency) at SJC.

Does not reflect positively on Southwest. Neither does this:
https://twitter.com/SenRonJohnson/statu ... 8138178562

“Unsafe”? The guy made a joke, chill out LOL. Unnecessarily political, maybe, but his joking comment had no actual affect on anyone. Southwest crews have always been known for playful joking/antics. Let the guy be a little loose. It’s what separates Southwest from everyone else. How does this make the news?

Well if Southwest Airlines expects its passengers to behave like adults, then its pilots should be doing the same. I don't think this guy should be fired, but I hope Southwest Chief pilot gives him a good talking to!

sldispatcher wrote:

Sorry. That is a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled. As far as the pilot being "unsafe", how on earth are you passing that "poor judgement" on the pilot based on a PA announcement?

As far as I know, the pilots at all of the majors have very high standards for skills, knowledge, etc.

What is "a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled"?

As a professional facing the public, in whatever role you operate (host/hostess in a restaurant or hotel, cashier at a store or pilot at an airline), you do not display your political opinions to your customers, regardless whether they are for or against the current President, Congress and/or Chamber of Representatives.
Religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation (among others) are private matter and must not be publicly displayed when you are facing your customers; it's your private life, keep it as such.

As far as the pilot being unsafe, I agree with you, I don't see the link.

aden23 wrote:

https://www.businessinsider.com/southwest-pilot-tells-passengers-lets-go-brandon-in-flight-announcement-2021-10

If a pilot has such poor judgement to broadcast his politics to pax, should he be allowed to fly planes? Is Southwest this desperate for pilots that they have to hire unsafe, socially inept pilots?

I’m liking Southwest Airlines more and more! How does this make the pilot unsafe?

Aliqiout wrote:

Completely disgusting, and certainly socially inept, but unsafe?

Potentially unsafe because “Let’s go Brandon” comments were also constantly being transmitted on guard (121.5), to the point ATC told an aircraft to stop transmitting.

In a more wider sense it’s imperative to have a well functioning and open environment on the flight deck. I’d probably say both pilots were conservative (SWA seems to be quite conservative, a lot of ex military there I believe) so probably both had no problem with what was said on the PA but what if one pilot had differing views? Contentious topics should be avoided on the flight deck, and I’d say if one pilot is willing to broadcast their views over a PA then I’d say they’re not likely to tolerate much in the way of opposing opinion.

Don’t think it can have a safety implication? Read up on the BEA Staines crash out of Heathrow in 1972. A preflight argument about Union politics contributed to a flight deck environment in which some junior pilots were not willing to speak up to a senior one.

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

tomaheath wrote:

I’m liking Southwest Airlines more and more! How does this make the pilot unsafe?

Question, would you be liking SWA “more and more” if the pilot had insulted Trump or a Republican, or broadcast leftist political views over the PA?

WayexTDI wrote:

sldispatcher wrote:

Sorry. That is a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled. As far as the pilot being "unsafe", how on earth are you passing that "poor judgement" on the pilot based on a PA announcement?

As far as I know, the pilots at all of the majors have very high standards for skills, knowledge, etc.

What is "a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled"?

As a professional facing the public, in whatever role you operate (host/hostess in a restaurant or hotel, cashier at a store or pilot at an airline), you do not display your political opinions to your customers, regardless whether they are for or against the current President, Congress and/or Chamber of Representatives.
Religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation (among others) are private matter and must not be publicly displayed when you are facing your customers; it's your private life, keep it as such.

As far as the pilot being unsafe, I agree with you, I don't see the link.

"must not be"? Based on what law? Surely a company and their employees still have a right to decide what is appropriate or not within the confines of the law.
As another poster mentioned, Southwest, in part, built a reputation on having fun. We have forgotten how to laugh at ourselves. Look at the sad state of comedy in our country today. The late, great Johnny Carson and his wildly successful show couldn't pass muster with the AP thought police or many of the A.NET folks either. WN was born in that era and some of their antics of satire and wit remind me of that treasured time.

I don't have close access to WN or their flights but it seems like people are finding every angle to pile on them this year.

IF this pilot gets fired due to pressure from the woke mob of pearl clutchers, it will be another sad day.

Agreed, this is a non-news issue and should never have even made it past the editor's desk in my humble opinion.

BWIAirport wrote:

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

Awesome sauce!
That's more like it!

BWIAirport wrote:

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

We just expect professional behavior from professional pilots. It’s not the end of the world, but reflects poorly on the pilot. That is all.

Hey if everyone can be woke and state their opinion in the workplace then people can surely make a joke about the fake pres. WN just earned my next two trips.

The shock and horror when passengers find out that a large portion of pilots are conservative in the US.

What is more shocking that she has the audacity to try to get him on audio after the "incident". What a doughnut.

Pilot is paid to fly the plane and tell pax the weather. Obviously has terrible judgement.

BWIAirport wrote:

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about anyone being traumatized. I think the safety concerns are a stretch, but it is extremely concerning that a pilot is either so clueless about appropriate professional behavior, or so political worked up he didn't care. This could raise concerns about a lack of professional behavior when it comes to parts of thr job with a direct effect on safety.

This would be equally concerning if this was coming from the other end of the political spectrum.

WN732 wrote:

The shock and horror when passengers find out that a large portion of pilots are conservative in the US.

What is more shocking that she has the audacity to try to get him on audio after the "incident". What a doughnut.

Agreed. If she acted in anyway to delay the flight just to get a story....is that also a lack of being professional?

Again, where is Carson or Aresenio Hall when we need them!!! They would have a field day with this.

Aliqiout wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about anyone being traumatized. I think the safety concerns are a stretch, but it is extremely concerning that a pilot is either so clueless about appropriate professional behavior, or so political worked up he didn't care. This would be equally concerning if this was coming from the other end of the political spectrum.

I think the poster was using "sarcasm". I promise it is still in the dictionary. Also a comedic tool being put out to pasture by the current social media warrior mob.

Popcorn anyone?

Aliqiout wrote:

Completely disgusting, and certainly socially inept, but unsafe?

Disgusting? I remember the other side doing much worse with the last president

Aliqiout wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about anyone being traumatized. .

I assume you never heard of sarcasm before.

BWIAirport wrote:

Hope everyone recovered from this traumatizing incident.

We must immediately provide emergency safe spaces, culturally appropriate counseling and jail anyone who chants this racist homophobic dangerous slogan. It is a threat to our democracy

gregn21 wrote:

“Unsafe”? The guy made a joke, chill out LOL. Unnecessarily political, maybe, but his joking comment had no actual affect on anyone. Southwest crews have always been known for playful joking/antics. Let the guy be a little loose. It’s what separates Southwest from everyone else. How does this make the news?

If a pilot spoke of his support for B.L.M. over the PA would those of you supporting him feel the same? Or is the support and downplaying only for views you believe in?

It's not a safety issue #1.

The best answer is some punishment. Put this pilot on short call reserve (and keep forgetting to pick them) for the next six months as punishment.

Most likely they'll get a slap on the wrist type punishment.

bpat777 wrote:

gregn21 wrote:

“Unsafe”? The guy made a joke, chill out LOL. Unnecessarily political, maybe, but his joking comment had no actual affect on anyone. Southwest crews have always been known for playful joking/antics. Let the guy be a little loose. It’s what separates Southwest from everyone else. How does this make the news?

If a pilot spoke of his support for B.L.M. over the PA would those of you supporting him feel the same? Or is the support and downplaying only for views you believe in?

I'd roll my eyes, have a good laugh, and get off the plane like a normal person.

He is just cheering for Brandon to do well in his next race.

Inappropriate behavior by a pilot, we don't need to hear this crap from a pilot.

sldispatcher wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

sldispatcher wrote:

Sorry. That is a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled. As far as the pilot being "unsafe", how on earth are you passing that "poor judgement" on the pilot based on a PA announcement?

As far as I know, the pilots at all of the majors have very high standards for skills, knowledge, etc.

What is "a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled"?

As a professional facing the public, in whatever role you operate (host/hostess in a restaurant or hotel, cashier at a store or pilot at an airline), you do not display your political opinions to your customers, regardless whether they are for or against the current President, Congress and/or Chamber of Representatives.
Religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation (among others) are private matter and must not be publicly displayed when you are facing your customers; it's your private life, keep it as such.

As far as the pilot being unsafe, I agree with you, I don't see the link.

"must not be"? Based on what law? Surely a company and their employees still have a right to decide what is appropriate or not within the confines of the law.
As another poster mentioned, Southwest, in part, built a reputation on having fun. We have forgotten how to laugh at ourselves. Look at the sad state of comedy in our country today. The late, great Johnny Carson and his wildly successful show couldn't pass muster with the AP thought police or many of the A.NET folks either. WN was born in that era and some of their antics of satire and wit remind me of that treasured time.

I don't have close access to WN or their flights but it seems like people are finding every angle to pile on them this year.

IF this pilot gets fired due to pressure from the woke mob of pearl clutchers, it will be another sad day.

Agreed, this is a non-news issue and should never have even made it past the editor's desk in my humble opinion.

When you interface with a customer, you have 50/50 chances of offending them with your personal views; as such, as a general rule, you do not discuss personal matters (political views, religion, etc) when interfacing with a customer.

I never found WN "jokes" to be funny; I found them to be distracting from their original purpose (since they are usually during safety briefings) and counterproductive.

bpat777 wrote:

If a pilot spoke of his support for B.L.M. over the PA would those of you supporting him feel the same? Or is the support and downplaying only for views you believe in?

Exactly

I have my political views and everyone there’s, but the last place I want to be subjected to them is going about my business in daily life where I’m captive to whoever’s saying them.

So I’d be equally as opposed to political beliefs I support being aired over a PA while I’m a passenger.

Just as I’d be opposed to political statements being made when I go to order a burger from McDonald’s

Or when I go to get my car fixed at the garage.

Or when I go to the doctor’s office.

Even if I agree with them. It’s just not the time or place for that type of thing.

If you, as a highly paid professional, can’t refrain from (admittedly very childish) political comments or pranks over the PA then you shouldn’t be there.

Thats so embarassing. But then again pilots are not known for being the most educated people…

Let's go Brandon has become a rallying call for half the country including this pilot. However, it is is not obscene and it is not lurid. Could this be considered a political statement? Depends on who you ask. However, the Pilot will not face any discipline because there is nothing in the regulations either by FAA or Southwest internal procedures that he can articulate that he did anything wrong. That might change Monday, but right now, it is nothing more than three words. In terms of safety, not one of those passengers safety was ever in jeopardy and those that think so (especially this journalist) are just trying to justify censoring this pilot and anyone who disagrees with the Let's go Brandon phrase.

It’s no difference than college professors pushing his or her political views in a classroom which are usually very left.

When I pay for an airline ticket I’m not paying to hear the political views of airline employees regardless of what they are and I would bet the people defending this pilot would say the same if he’d said something they disagree with. Fly the plane and STFU.

NLINK wrote:

It’s no difference than college professors pushing his or her political views in a classroom which are usually very left.

And they are (rightfully) taking the heat for it. So, this pilot needs to take the heat as well: what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

There is something about the culture of North Texas that creates pilots that are a little "off". AA and WN both have a number of pilots that haven't gotten the memo that there are certain things that you should keep to yourself. A friend of mine is an ATL based WN captain and he has a restraining order on a DAL based colleague after he was threatened in an ATL crew room over his (non-GOP) politics. I've never heard anything like this from IAH/HOU based crews so it is a North Texas thing.

DL757NYC wrote:

Aliqiout wrote:

Completely disgusting, and certainly socially inept, but unsafe?

Disgusting? I remember the other side doing much worse with the last president

Irrelevant - it's disgusting regardless of what 'side' it is done for. Whether 'F Trump' or 'Let's Go Brandon', political statements like this have NOTHING to do with the job description and have no professional justification. It also indicates a worrying lack of judgment and emotional control - two things the job description definitely requires.

usflyer msp wrote:

A friend of mine is an ATL based WN captain and he has a restraining order on a DAL based colleague after he was threatened in an ATL crew room over his (non-GOP) politics.

If this is true, it is a major fail by HR. In any competent organization, threatening another employee over politics is a terminable offense. Again, difference in political views has NOTHING to do with the job being compensated to perform.

bpat777 wrote:

gregn21 wrote:

“Unsafe”? The guy made a joke, chill out LOL. Unnecessarily political, maybe, but his joking comment had no actual affect on anyone. Southwest crews have always been known for playful joking/antics. Let the guy be a little loose. It’s what separates Southwest from everyone else. How does this make the news?

If a pilot spoke of his support for B.L.M. over the PA would those of you supporting him feel the same? Or is the support and downplaying only for views you believe in?

WayexTDI wrote:

sldispatcher wrote:

WayexTDI wrote:

What is "a company policy decision that is between the pilot, the union, and the company and however it gets handled"?

As a professional facing the public, in whatever role you operate (host/hostess in a restaurant or hotel, cashier at a store or pilot at an airline), you do not display your political opinions to your customers, regardless whether they are for or against the current President, Congress and/or Chamber of Representatives.
Religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation (among others) are private matter and must not be publicly displayed when you are facing your customers; it's your private life, keep it as such.

As far as the pilot being unsafe, I agree with you, I don't see the link.

"must not be"? Based on what law? Surely a company and their employees still have a right to decide what is appropriate or not within the confines of the law.
As another poster mentioned, Southwest, in part, built a reputation on having fun. We have forgotten how to laugh at ourselves. Look at the sad state of comedy in our country today. The late, great Johnny Carson and his wildly successful show couldn't pass muster with the AP thought police or many of the A.NET folks either. WN was born in that era and some of their antics of satire and wit remind me of that treasured time.

I don't have close access to WN or their flights but it seems like people are finding every angle to pile on them this year.

IF this pilot gets fired due to pressure from the woke mob of pearl clutchers, it will be another sad day.

Agreed, this is a non-news issue and should never have even made it past the editor's desk in my humble opinion.

When you interface with a customer, you have 50/50 chances of offending them with your personal views; as such, as a general rule, you do not discuss personal matters (political views, religion, etc) when interfacing with a customer.

I never found WN "jokes" to be funny; I found them to be distracting from their original purpose (since they are usually during safety briefings) and counterproductive.

CBBW wrote:

When I pay for an airline ticket I’m not paying to hear the political views of airline employees regardless of what they are and I would bet the people defending this pilot would say the same if he’d said something they disagree with. Fly the plane and STFU.

Curious, where were you guys when this was going on? You didn't seem to have any issues then...

https://nypost.com/2020/09/06/american- ... -backlash/

piedmontf284000 wrote:

However, it is is not obscene and it is not lurid. Could this be considered a political statement?

Directionless idiocy is not a political statement.

Aaron747 wrote:

Irrelevant - it's disgusting regardless of what 'side' it is done for. Whether 'F Trump' or 'Let's Go Brandon', political statements like this have NOTHING to do with the job description and have no professional justification. It also indicates a worrying lack of judgment and emotional control - two things the job description definitely requires.

Fair. Blurting out confessions of insecurity as he has done is a strong calling card of poor judgement and an inexcusable lack of emotive control. What would happen in another month, for example, if his wife divorces him for someone better?

Not a lot of room to place faith in someone like that's ability to handle stress of any level.

Nonrevhell wrote:

Inappropriate behavior by a pilot, we don't need to hear this crap from a pilot.

Some pax may not know what the phrase means, some may support it and some will be offended by it if knows what means. It was very inappropriate and the pilot (and Co-pilot as part of CRM) should face some discipline and respect training to keep their comments away from politics or anything that can offend passengers or other staff.

WayexTDI wrote:

NLINK wrote:

It’s no difference than college professors pushing his or her political views in a classroom which are usually very left.

And they are (rightfully) taking the heat for it. So, this pilot needs to take the heat as well: what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I personally think we should not hear either side of it in a public setting, like a sports game, an airplane, etc. Unfortunately the media in the US generally jumps on the right for doing it and gives the left a pass or praises them for it.

it wasn't necessary. it wasn't humorous. it was intentionally incendiary.

for the record I'm stictly fiscally conservative but support programs to lift the truly disadvantaged amongst us. I'm compassionate, but have about had it with being considered intolerant just because I draw a moral line in the sand on occasion. I love the the united states, but question why we need so much of our GNP spent oversees to support standing armies all over hell and gone to promote our brand of democracy (...ergo... thinly disguised capitalism). so yeah... I'm fed up with both sides of just two ways of looking at any issue (yours-wrong, mine-right, red-blue) that results in no intelligent discussion and zero comprimise.

so yeah... that was just inappropriate what I did just there... voice an overtly political opinion on an aviation forum where we are all just fans of aviation... it's uncomfortable... you didn't come here for that.

likewise why I don't appreciate my pilot voicing his political opinions on the loudspeaker while I'm held captive in an aluminum tube at 37,000 feet above the earth's surface, surrounded by 80,000lbs of ignitable fluid. I don't care if he's arguing immigation policy, corrupt elections, gerrymandering, the right of the guy seated in 3B to wear a dress and use a woman's bathroom, Trump's racism, Biden's dimensia, <insert other hot button topic here>, etc...

just be professional. this pilot was not.

santi319 wrote:

Thats so embarassing. But then again pilots are not known for being the most educated people…

Since when aren't pilots known for being educated?

Nonrevhell wrote:

Inappropriate behavior by a pilot, we don't need to hear this crap from a pilot.

Just as I should not hear the same crap at sporting event or in a college class.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

piedmontf284000 wrote:

However, it is is not obscene and it is not lurid. Could this be considered a political statement?

Directionless idiocy is not a political statement.

Aaron747 wrote:

Irrelevant - it's disgusting regardless of what 'side' it is done for. Whether 'F Trump' or 'Let's Go Brandon', political statements like this have NOTHING to do with the job description and have no professional justification. It also indicates a worrying lack of judgment and emotional control - two things the job description definitely requires.

Fair. Blurting out confessions of insecurity as he has done is a strong calling card of poor judgement and an inexcusable lack of emotive control. What would happen in another month, for example, if his wife divorces him for someone better?

Not a lot of room to place faith in someone like that's ability to handle stress of any level.

So what you're saying is that any doctor, bus driver, cop, pilot, firefighter, or train engineer should not be allowed to work if they are going through a divorce.

NLINK wrote:

It’s no difference than college professors pushing his or her political views in a classroom which are usually very left.

Not an apt comparison. Universities hire academics to achieve a spread of viewpoints in their faculty. Airlines hire pilots to fly airplanes competently and take care of their customers.

NLINK wrote:

Nonrevhell wrote:

Inappropriate behavior by a pilot, we don't need to hear this crap from a pilot.

Just as I should not hear the same crap at sporting event or in a college class.

Sports clubs are often family-owned businesses, and as such will express their political views or allow staff/players to do so if they choose. As a fan it's up to you whether to accept that or not. Also a different situation.

Aaron747 wrote:

NLINK wrote:

It’s no difference than college professors pushing his or her political views in a classroom which are usually very left.

Not an apt comparison. Universities hire academics to achieve a spread of viewpoints in their faculty. Airlines hire pilots to fly airplanes competently and take care of their customers.

It is the same. When I’m working on a advanced Computer Science degree I could care left if the professor supports ABC or XYZ. Maybe a liberal arts you can see it but a technical degree it is crap and propaganda which should not be done when I’m paying for it. If the the subject is machine learning we can care less which party he or she supports.