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flyguy89
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:12 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
Let's hope the Dems stay progressive!! Terry McAuliffe was a moderate, old school Democrat. Americans love progressive Democrats and the Squad members. This is one election. In many local elections progressive Democrats did well across the country.

Mhmmm.

Also, the Sanders/AOC-backed openly socialist candidate for the mayorship of Buffalo who won the Democratic primary just got absolutely clobbered…by her primary opponent who ran a write in campaign.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/03/nyre ... r.amp.html

That is all.
 
luckyone
Posts: 4174
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:25 am

[code][/code]
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Well, look at the rates in the read areas—rates in excess of 30/100,000. I’d say a steaming bowl of not good. Yes, old line working class areas were fine, too, but large areas, neither you nor I would walk at anytime.

Having lived in Chicago for many years (and loved it!), your assessment overlooks the fact that the overwhelming majority of the perpetrators and victims of violence in those areas are gang members or gang-affiliates. I can’t find the report at the moment, but it was released some time in 2012/2013 and showed that most of the victims can be tied to a core group of like 1,600 people who all know each other. That doesn’t take away from the violence but it doesn’t overlook the fact that unless you’re looking for trouble or involved in drug trade you can walk around on 79th Street during the day.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:27 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
cairns wrote:
Education could be worse? We're already among the last of any civilized country when it comes to science and math scores. But yeah, let's teach CRT.....

Really, how stupid can you get?


How do you propose to raise science and math scores when the parents campaigning against phantom CRT are often the same people actively encouraging an anti-science mentality overall? I’m talking people who think two Google searches allows them to question/shout down professional research. One writer termed what our society is undergoing as ‘the death of expertise’.


It's not as phantom as you calim.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/10/28/virg ... the-state/
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14431
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:57 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Casinterst,

Deeply motivated to a political position. These are the same voters that gave Biden a 10 point win a year ago.


Yes, but deeply motivated people of their own selfish interests rarely work out well for the whole country. It is called Game Theory.


Yes, those white, misogynistic racists just voted in a African-American Lt Governor. I suppose they didn’t have pictures in the voting booths.


Since when do voting booths have pictures, and since when do most of the R's vote for anyone other than a R?

Here in NC we have an African American Lt Governor, and he is used to sound off on all sorts of social issues, but he plays the party line on racism issues.
Let's see what happens when the GOP tries to run them for governor. It is almost sounds like you are using the I have a friend excuse to get by on the blatent racism driving the current agenda.

But let's look at those Exit polls shall we.

https://wset.com/news/local/exit-poll-r ... st-to-them

A quarter of Virginia voters say the debate over teaching critical race theory in schools was the single most important factor in their vote for governor, but a similar percentage identified the debate over handling COVID-19 in schools as most important.

Thirty-five percent of Youngkin voters said the debate over critical race theory in schools was most important to their vote, compared with 14% of McAuliffe voters who said the same. Thirty-four percent of McAuliffe voters said the debate over handling COVID-19 in schools was most important to their vote, compared with 19% of Youngkin voters who said the same.

Most Youngkin voters — about three-quarters — said the public school system in Virginia is focusing on racism too much. Among McAuliffe voters, just over half said the focus is too little, while about a third said it’s about right.



So tell me again that this wasn't about racism?
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16865
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:57 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
cairns wrote:
Education could be worse? We're already among the last of any civilized country when it comes to science and math scores. But yeah, let's teach CRT.....

Really, how stupid can you get?


How do you propose to raise science and math scores when the parents campaigning against phantom CRT are often the same people actively encouraging an anti-science mentality overall? I’m talking people who think two Google searches allows them to question/shout down professional research. One writer termed what our society is undergoing as ‘the death of expertise’.


It's not as phantom as you calim.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/10/28/virg ... the-state/


That is not CRT being taught to little kids - the DOE site linked in the article is an accounting of resources teachers and administrators can use to develop best practices and reach diverse audiences. DC apparently can't tell the difference. The article also erroneously describes CRT as treating every social interaction and person in terms of race...that isn't close to what it is. CRT is an academic framework that examines how racism pervades in fundamental ways by unequal application of laws. From an ABA explainer:

Foundational questions that underlie CRT and the law include: How does the law construct race?; How has the law protected racism and upheld racial hierarchies?; How does the law reproduce racial inequality?; and How can the law be used to dismantle race, racism, and racial inequality?

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj ... ce-theory/

I should also note the Daily Caller does not have a good rating on the MediaBias site.

Overall, we rate the Daily Caller strongly right biased based on story selection that almost always favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks. The Daily Caller is a source that needs to be fact-checked on a per-article basis.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:

Yet curriculums teach WW2, including to Japanese-Americans, some of whom likely had older relatives who represented the Empire during that time or even placed in internment camps.

I know the GOP would never consider ending WW2 history because it might hurt some Japanese-American's feelings.

Getting back on topic from a review of the campaign, it seems Youngkin used in his campaign a "concerned" conservative mother who wants the Toni Morrison book "Beloved" banned from schools, a book that was required reading in late 1990's high school English curriculums. CRT is now becoming an issue simply beyond the Lincoln project. What other books does the GOP plan to burn?

Toni Morrison's 'Beloved' becomes latest flashpoint in Virginia gubernatorial race

Source: CNN


I have children in those Virginia schools, I can tell you its a lot more than what you are trying to minimize. Have you followed the Loudoun County Public School issues? What is being reported is just scratching the surface and for someone who doesn't live here to dismiss Virginians concerns is very disingenuous. There are some very real issues here and Youngkin emphasized with parents while McAuliffe said in a debate "I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach". I think that sealed the deal for him. He said it word for word, it was not taken out of context.


I agree that the messaging with parents was a total failure by the McAuliffe campaign. Can you elaborate more on how the school issues are ‘only scratching the surface’? Not sure what that means.


The LCPS School Board is a mess. There were/are private FB pages created by members of the board to solely to discredit (slander/libel) conservatives who oppose the board, cover ups for assaults ( the one in news isn't the only one), etc.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:33 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Casinterst,

Deeply motivated to a political position. These are the same voters that gave Biden a 10 point win a year ago.


Yes, but deeply motivated people of their own selfish interests rarely work out well for the whole country. It is called Game Theory.


Yes, those white, misogynistic racists just voted in a African-American Lt Governor. I suppose they didn’t have pictures in the voting booths.


Don't forget she is an immigrant, Republicans are always accused of fearing/hating immigrants.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

How do you propose to raise science and math scores when the parents campaigning against phantom CRT are often the same people actively encouraging an anti-science mentality overall? I’m talking people who think two Google searches allows them to question/shout down professional research. One writer termed what our society is undergoing as ‘the death of expertise’.


It's not as phantom as you calim.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/10/28/virg ... the-state/


That is not CRT being taught to little kids - the DOE site linked in the article is an accounting of resources teachers and administrators can use to develop best practices and reach diverse audiences. DC apparently can't tell the difference. The article also erroneously describes CRT as treating every social interaction and person in terms of race...that isn't close to what it is. CRT is an academic framework that examines how racism pervades in fundamental ways by unequal application of laws. From an ABA explainer:

Foundational questions that underlie CRT and the law include: How does the law construct race?; How has the law protected racism and upheld racial hierarchies?; How does the law reproduce racial inequality?; and How can the law be used to dismantle race, racism, and racial inequality?


https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj ... ce-theory/

I should also note the Daily Caller does not have a good rating on the MediaBias site.

Overall, we rate the Daily Caller strongly right biased based on story selection that almost always favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks. The Daily Caller is a source that needs to be fact-checked on a per-article basis.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/


The CRT issue in Virginia is real. It's on the Virginia Department of Education website telling teacher to embrace CRT. Saying it has not been taught it a play on words, its not a subject they teach, but teachers are being told to embrace CRT.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/virgin ... ught-there

But I'm sure you will attack this source too since it goes against what you believe.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:46 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

I have children in those Virginia schools, I can tell you its a lot more than what you are trying to minimize. Have you followed the Loudoun County Public School issues? What is being reported is just scratching the surface and for someone who doesn't live here to dismiss Virginians concerns is very disingenuous. There are some very real issues here and Youngkin emphasized with parents while McAuliffe said in a debate "I don't think parents should be telling schools what they should teach". I think that sealed the deal for him. He said it word for word, it was not taken out of context.


I agree that the messaging with parents was a total failure by the McAuliffe campaign. Can you elaborate more on how the school issues are ‘only scratching the surface’? Not sure what that means.


The LCPS School Board is a mess. There were/are private FB pages created by members of the board to solely to discredit (slander/libel) conservatives who oppose the board, cover ups for assaults ( the one in news isn't the only one), etc.


Covering up multiple assaults is a major HR issue, possibly even criminal negligence. But that has nothing to do with politics, or phantom CRT.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16865
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:48 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:


That is not CRT being taught to little kids - the DOE site linked in the article is an accounting of resources teachers and administrators can use to develop best practices and reach diverse audiences. DC apparently can't tell the difference. The article also erroneously describes CRT as treating every social interaction and person in terms of race...that isn't close to what it is. CRT is an academic framework that examines how racism pervades in fundamental ways by unequal application of laws. From an ABA explainer:

Foundational questions that underlie CRT and the law include: How does the law construct race?; How has the law protected racism and upheld racial hierarchies?; How does the law reproduce racial inequality?; and How can the law be used to dismantle race, racism, and racial inequality?


https://www.americanbar.org/groups/crsj ... ce-theory/

I should also note the Daily Caller does not have a good rating on the MediaBias site.

Overall, we rate the Daily Caller strongly right biased based on story selection that almost always favors the right and Mixed for factual reporting due to numerous failed fact checks. The Daily Caller is a source that needs to be fact-checked on a per-article basis.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/


The CRT issue in Virginia is real. It's on the Virginia Department of Education website telling teacher to embrace CRT. Saying it has not been taught it a play on words, its not a subject they teach, but teachers are being told to embrace CRT.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/virgin ... ught-there

But I'm sure you will attack this source too since it goes against what you believe.


I looked at the website itself. You have not provided any information to discredit what I said about the purpose of the reading list. You are entitled to an opinion, but not your own facts, as Dan Moynihan famously said.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:52 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I agree that the messaging with parents was a total failure by the McAuliffe campaign. Can you elaborate more on how the school issues are ‘only scratching the surface’? Not sure what that means.


The LCPS School Board is a mess. There were/are private FB pages created by members of the board to solely to discredit (slander/libel) conservatives who oppose the board, cover ups for assaults ( the one in news isn't the only one), etc.


Covering up multiple assaults is a major HR issue, possibly even criminal negligence. But that has nothing to do with politics, or phantom CRT.


I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14431
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:00 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

The LCPS School Board is a mess. There were/are private FB pages created by members of the board to solely to discredit (slander/libel) conservatives who oppose the board, cover ups for assaults ( the one in news isn't the only one), etc.


Covering up multiple assaults is a major HR issue, possibly even criminal negligence. But that has nothing to do with politics, or phantom CRT.


I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.


The school system is not a mess. Hard working decent people work in it. They have to take abuse from folks that believe anything certain right wing sites tell them

If they were really that bad, you are telling me that all these folks that think they can do better, don't homeschool or go to private schools? Sorry, but those folks don't have a high earning spouse, and they probably never had time to do the right things at home in the first place for their kids, and then they blame the school system because their kid has a C average, which means they are worse than half the other kids in terms of education.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:01 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

The LCPS School Board is a mess. There were/are private FB pages created by members of the board to solely to discredit (slander/libel) conservatives who oppose the board, cover ups for assaults ( the one in news isn't the only one), etc.


Covering up multiple assaults is a major HR issue, possibly even criminal negligence. But that has nothing to do with politics, or phantom CRT.


I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.


Yet you cited sources that say CRT is being taught in the district when the reading list cited as evidence....doesn't demonstrate that. What is your specific experience indicating this legal framework is being taught to children?

You'll note I have not disagreed the district board very well may be a mess.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Covering up multiple assaults is a major HR issue, possibly even criminal negligence. But that has nothing to do with politics, or phantom CRT.


I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.


The school system is not a mess. Hard working decent people work in it. They have to take abuse from folks that believe anything certain right wing sites tell them

If they were really that bad, you are telling me that all these folks that think they can do better, don't homeschool or go to private schools? Sorry, but those folks don't have a high earning spouse, and they probably never had time to do the right things at home in the first place for their kids, and then they blame the school system because their kid has a C average, which means they are worse than half the other kids in terms of education.


This isn't about grades, not once has that been brought up. Interesting to see how you think everyone can homeschool or afford private school.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Covering up multiple assaults is a major HR issue, possibly even criminal negligence. But that has nothing to do with politics, or phantom CRT.


I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.


Yet you cited sources that say CRT is being taught in the district when the reading list cited as evidence....doesn't demonstrate that. What is your specific experience indicating this legal framework is being taught to children?

You'll note I have not disagreed the district board very well may be a mess.


The memo from the Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction #050-19 Titled "Resources to Support Student and Community Dialogues on Racism"

In the memo he states "As education leaders – we have the opportunity and an obligation – to facilitate meaningful dialogue on racism and bigotry with our students, staff, and school communities." Which is a great start, but then he then lists "Foundations of Critical Race Theory in Education as a resource for Schools and District Leaders. There is a lot of nuisance in the memo, so don't even start with that. This is solely about the lefts claim that CRT is not in education in Virginia. This memo is straight from the Head of the DOE in Virginia.

The memo starts of on good footing. Of course we want to teach the truth about racism in America (and Virginia in this case). I don't think you will find much opposition to that, but the memo goes to far when it brings up CRT. There is also another reference in there that mentions "white fragility". While I have not researched that book, it doesn't look good on the surface.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:29 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.


Yet you cited sources that say CRT is being taught in the district when the reading list cited as evidence....doesn't demonstrate that. What is your specific experience indicating this legal framework is being taught to children?

You'll note I have not disagreed the district board very well may be a mess.


The memo from the Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction #050-19 Titled "Resources to Support Student and Community Dialogues on Racism"

In the memo he states "As education leaders – we have the opportunity and an obligation – to facilitate meaningful dialogue on racism and bigotry with our students, staff, and school communities." Which is a great start, but then he then lists "Foundations of Critical Race Theory in Education as a resource for Schools and District Leaders. There is a lot of nuisance in the memo, so don't even start with that. This is solely about the lefts claim that CRT is not in education in Virginia. This memo is straight from the Head of the DOE in Virginia.

The memo starts of on good footing. Of course we want to teach the truth about racism in America (and Virginia in this case). I don't think you will find much opposition to that, but the memo goes to far when it brings up CRT. There is also another reference in there that mentions "white fragility". While I have not researched that book, it doesn't look good on the surface.


Yes, and I as I said, I looked at those resources, and it's pretty clear to a trained eye they are intended for teachers and administrators to develop best practices. Has it occurred to you that a lot of teachers are well-intentioned, have mixed feelings about handling these topics with diverse student groups, and want to obtain perspectives outside their own life experience to have a more balanced approach to discussions? CRT was mostly developed by black legal scholars, so that would certainly be a considered resource. I don't see anything nefarious about that. Especially as there is no evidence of major curriculum changes that make kids 'feel responsible for slavery' and other nonsense that appeared earlier in this thread.

Put another way to your point - Of course we want to teach the truth about racism in America (and Virginia in this case). I don't think you will find much opposition to that, but the memo goes to far when it brings up CRT. The memo brings up CRT as a resource, not a bedrock curriculum item. Few kids in primary or secondary school can understand CRT legal theories in depth anyhow. In teaching the truth about historical racism, there may be class conversations a teacher doesn't feel fully equipped to handle. Having resources from perspectives they didn't grow up can help with that, no? Teachers are in the difficult position of delivering factual historical information that carries emotional weight in the here and now. There are 30 people in the room who have reactions varying from who cares to militant, depending on their family and influences. It's a tall order.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:30 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

I am not tying that to CRT, I never said that. I am saying that the education system (includes school boards) is a mess, mostly due to the pollicization of a non-partisan institution, CRT is just one issue of many. Why are you trying to discredit the opinion of a parent who has a kid in the school system? If you have a kiddo in the same system, we could have a fair and honest debate, if not you are just using talking points. My experience with LCPS is real, yours is from the media.


The school system is not a mess. Hard working decent people work in it. They have to take abuse from folks that believe anything certain right wing sites tell them

If they were really that bad, you are telling me that all these folks that think they can do better, don't homeschool or go to private schools? Sorry, but those folks don't have a high earning spouse, and they probably never had time to do the right things at home in the first place for their kids, and then they blame the school system because their kid has a C average, which means they are worse than half the other kids in terms of education.


This isn't about grades, not once has that been brought up. Interesting to see how you think everyone can homeschool or afford private school.


So why is it about CRT? Why ? Why is CRT so important to put down? Other than the lies from the right. Remember this is a legal level item that is not taught in schools.

Why is not saving kids and folks not able to take the vaccine not important enough to wear masks?

The point I bring up about homeschool or private school is that the folks raising hell about the CRT and mask issues, don't have enough time to actually school their kids or understand what is actually being taught in schools. So if it isn't about the grades that their children make, then what is it about?
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:34 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Yet you cited sources that say CRT is being taught in the district when the reading list cited as evidence....doesn't demonstrate that. What is your specific experience indicating this legal framework is being taught to children?

You'll note I have not disagreed the district board very well may be a mess.


The memo from the Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction #050-19 Titled "Resources to Support Student and Community Dialogues on Racism"

In the memo he states "As education leaders – we have the opportunity and an obligation – to facilitate meaningful dialogue on racism and bigotry with our students, staff, and school communities." Which is a great start, but then he then lists "Foundations of Critical Race Theory in Education as a resource for Schools and District Leaders. There is a lot of nuisance in the memo, so don't even start with that. This is solely about the lefts claim that CRT is not in education in Virginia. This memo is straight from the Head of the DOE in Virginia.

The memo starts of on good footing. Of course we want to teach the truth about racism in America (and Virginia in this case). I don't think you will find much opposition to that, but the memo goes to far when it brings up CRT. There is also another reference in there that mentions "white fragility". While I have not researched that book, it doesn't look good on the surface.


Yes, and I as I said, I looked at those resources, and it's pretty clear to a trained eye they are intended for teachers and administrators to develop best practices. Has it occurred to you that a lot of teachers are well-intentioned, have mixed feelings about handling these topics with diverse student groups, and want to obtain perspectives outside their own life experience to have a more balanced approach to discussions? CRT was mostly developed by black legal scholars, so that would certainly be a considered resource. I don't see anything nefarious about that. Especially as there is no evidence of major curriculum changes that make kids 'feel responsible for slavery' and other nonsense that appeared earlier in this thread.


But this is about the claim that CRT is not an influence in VA education.......I presented the evidence that it is.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:40 pm

casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The school system is not a mess. Hard working decent people work in it. They have to take abuse from folks that believe anything certain right wing sites tell them

If they were really that bad, you are telling me that all these folks that think they can do better, don't homeschool or go to private schools? Sorry, but those folks don't have a high earning spouse, and they probably never had time to do the right things at home in the first place for their kids, and then they blame the school system because their kid has a C average, which means they are worse than half the other kids in terms of education.


This isn't about grades, not once has that been brought up. Interesting to see how you think everyone can homeschool or afford private school.


So why is it about CRT? Why ? Why is CRT so important to put down? Other than the lies from the right. Remember this is a legal level item that is not taught in schools.

Why is not saving kids and folks not able to take the vaccine not important enough to wear masks?

The point I bring up about homeschool or private school is that the folks raising hell about the CRT and mask issues, don't have enough time to actually school their kids or understand what is actually being taught in schools. So if it isn't about the grades that their children make, then what is it about?


The reason this is coming to a head now is with the remote learning due to COVID, parents are now seeing exactly what is being taught. I have witnessed first hand my child's civics teacher giving biased and incorrect information about the bill or rights. All I wanted was a sandwich for lunch and I had to listed to teachers political stance on the 1st amendment. The 1st amendment is pretty clear cut, yet they managed in interject their beliefs into it. Had I not heard it, my kiddo wouldn't have know anything other that the incorrect statements of her teacher. Yes it was addressed.
 
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Tugger
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:42 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
But this is about the claim that CRT is not an influence in VA education.......I presented the evidence that it is.

No. You are attempting to move goal posts. The claim was that CRT was being taught in the school. And it is not. But I believe you are now admitting that?

As to "influence", your wording to move the goal post, teachers are required to get training and to educate themselves on the issues they may encounter in the classroom and often teachers also go to college. And guess what? All that influences them. Just as education and experiences influence everyone and what we think and do. That is to be expected and desired. But those teachers are not then teaching the boogeyman, "CRT" (scary) to students.

And when they teach math, they are influenced by their knowledge of far higher level of math than they teach. Same with History and English and writing skills.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:42 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

The memo from the Virginia Superintendent of Public Instruction #050-19 Titled "Resources to Support Student and Community Dialogues on Racism"

In the memo he states "As education leaders – we have the opportunity and an obligation – to facilitate meaningful dialogue on racism and bigotry with our students, staff, and school communities." Which is a great start, but then he then lists "Foundations of Critical Race Theory in Education as a resource for Schools and District Leaders. There is a lot of nuisance in the memo, so don't even start with that. This is solely about the lefts claim that CRT is not in education in Virginia. This memo is straight from the Head of the DOE in Virginia.

The memo starts of on good footing. Of course we want to teach the truth about racism in America (and Virginia in this case). I don't think you will find much opposition to that, but the memo goes to far when it brings up CRT. There is also another reference in there that mentions "white fragility". While I have not researched that book, it doesn't look good on the surface.


Yes, and I as I said, I looked at those resources, and it's pretty clear to a trained eye they are intended for teachers and administrators to develop best practices. Has it occurred to you that a lot of teachers are well-intentioned, have mixed feelings about handling these topics with diverse student groups, and want to obtain perspectives outside their own life experience to have a more balanced approach to discussions? CRT was mostly developed by black legal scholars, so that would certainly be a considered resource. I don't see anything nefarious about that. Especially as there is no evidence of major curriculum changes that make kids 'feel responsible for slavery' and other nonsense that appeared earlier in this thread.


But this is about the claim that CRT is not an influence in VA education.......I presented the evidence that it is.


I'll give you a non-education analogy to make it more simple: we do trainings in the company to promote best practices and provide resources for handling promotions and compensation decisions with empathy. That does not mean it is codified - managers are not evaluated on an 'empathy scale' and there is no policy in place mandating level of empathy or how to express it. So it really cannot be said that 'empathy is an influence in business operations' even though we devote resources to it. We just think it's better for employee relations overall to have than not.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:46 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

This isn't about grades, not once has that been brought up. Interesting to see how you think everyone can homeschool or afford private school.


So why is it about CRT? Why ? Why is CRT so important to put down? Other than the lies from the right. Remember this is a legal level item that is not taught in schools.

Why is not saving kids and folks not able to take the vaccine not important enough to wear masks?

The point I bring up about homeschool or private school is that the folks raising hell about the CRT and mask issues, don't have enough time to actually school their kids or understand what is actually being taught in schools. So if it isn't about the grades that their children make, then what is it about?


The reason this is coming to a head now is with the remote learning due to COVID, parents are now seeing exactly what is being taught. I have witnessed first hand my child's civics teacher giving biased and incorrect information about the bill or rights. All I wanted was a sandwich for lunch and I had to listed to teachers political stance on the 1st amendment. The 1st amendment is pretty clear cut, yet they managed in interject their beliefs into it. Had I not heard it, my kiddo wouldn't have know anything other that the incorrect statements of her teacher. Yes it was addressed.


What kind of biased and incorrect statements?
 
luckyone
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:03 pm

Perhaps also worth noting is the Seattle mayoral election. Bruce Harrell, former President of the City Council (the loons running the asylum) leads the current President of the City Council Lorena Gonzalez by a large margin that is unlikely to be overcome. Mostly image related, but Harrell presents himself as more moderate and less progressive than Gonzalez.

Perhaps also noteworthy is Kshama Sawant, the left wing MTG is up for a recall. She's played this rather interestingly. Over the summer she and her supporters signed the recall and said she hoped it made it to the ballot. Now she's complaining because the county didn't process it in time to be put on the general ballot and it will be a special election.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:05 pm

Tugger wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
But this is about the claim that CRT is not an influence in VA education.......I presented the evidence that it is.

No. You are attempting to move goal posts. The claim was that CRT was being taught in the school. And it is not. But I believe you are now admitting that?

As to "influence", your wording to move the goal post, teachers are required to get training and to educate themselves on the issues they may encounter in the classroom and often teachers also go to college. And guess what? All that influences them. Just as education and experiences influence everyone and what we think and do. That is to be expected and desired. But those teachers are not then teaching the boogeyman, "CRT" (scary) to students.

And when they teach math, they are influenced by their knowledge of far higher level of math than they teach. Same with History and English and writing skills.

Tugg


Nuance which is now the a key word around here. Obviously they is not now, not was there a class called CRT. That was never claimed. Teaching something isn't as cut and dry as having a class specific to that subject. If the head educator in VA is telling schools to use CRT as a resource, it's principles are "influencing" teachers and how and what they are teaching.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:08 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Yes, and I as I said, I looked at those resources, and it's pretty clear to a trained eye they are intended for teachers and administrators to develop best practices. Has it occurred to you that a lot of teachers are well-intentioned, have mixed feelings about handling these topics with diverse student groups, and want to obtain perspectives outside their own life experience to have a more balanced approach to discussions? CRT was mostly developed by black legal scholars, so that would certainly be a considered resource. I don't see anything nefarious about that. Especially as there is no evidence of major curriculum changes that make kids 'feel responsible for slavery' and other nonsense that appeared earlier in this thread.


But this is about the claim that CRT is not an influence in VA education.......I presented the evidence that it is.


I'll give you a non-education analogy to make it more simple: we do trainings in the company to promote best practices and provide resources for handling promotions and compensation decisions with empathy. That does not mean it is codified - managers are not evaluated on an 'empathy scale' and there is no policy in place mandating level of empathy or how to express it. So it really cannot be said that 'empathy is an influence in business operations' even though we devote resources to it. We just think it's better for employee relations overall to have than not.


But if you promoted CRT in those trainings, you could not deny that it influences your company.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:09 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So why is it about CRT? Why ? Why is CRT so important to put down? Other than the lies from the right. Remember this is a legal level item that is not taught in schools.

Why is not saving kids and folks not able to take the vaccine not important enough to wear masks?

The point I bring up about homeschool or private school is that the folks raising hell about the CRT and mask issues, don't have enough time to actually school their kids or understand what is actually being taught in schools. So if it isn't about the grades that their children make, then what is it about?


The reason this is coming to a head now is with the remote learning due to COVID, parents are now seeing exactly what is being taught. I have witnessed first hand my child's civics teacher giving biased and incorrect information about the bill or rights. All I wanted was a sandwich for lunch and I had to listed to teachers political stance on the 1st amendment. The 1st amendment is pretty clear cut, yet they managed in interject their beliefs into it. Had I not heard it, my kiddo wouldn't have know anything other that the incorrect statements of her teacher. Yes it was addressed.


What kind of biased and incorrect statements?


I'm not going to get into that story. The content is irrelevant for anything else than trying to discredit my experience. The point was that I would not have known except for the RONA.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:12 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

But this is about the claim that CRT is not an influence in VA education.......I presented the evidence that it is.


I'll give you a non-education analogy to make it more simple: we do trainings in the company to promote best practices and provide resources for handling promotions and compensation decisions with empathy. That does not mean it is codified - managers are not evaluated on an 'empathy scale' and there is no policy in place mandating level of empathy or how to express it. So it really cannot be said that 'empathy is an influence in business operations' even though we devote resources to it. We just think it's better for employee relations overall to have than not.


But if you promoted CRT in those trainings, you could not deny that it influences your company.


Of course we could - especially if its contents do not appear anywhere in our client interactions or work product. :boggled:
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:14 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

The reason this is coming to a head now is with the remote learning due to COVID, parents are now seeing exactly what is being taught. I have witnessed first hand my child's civics teacher giving biased and incorrect information about the bill or rights. All I wanted was a sandwich for lunch and I had to listed to teachers political stance on the 1st amendment. The 1st amendment is pretty clear cut, yet they managed in interject their beliefs into it. Had I not heard it, my kiddo wouldn't have know anything other that the incorrect statements of her teacher. Yes it was addressed.


What kind of biased and incorrect statements?


I'm not going to get into that story. The content is irrelevant for anything else than trying to discredit my experience. The point was that I would not have known except for the RONA.


That is a teacher issue, not a school board subject issue, and I would stand again that you would need to take your kid to "Homeschool" if you want the 1st Amendment taught "your way"
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:16 pm

luckyone wrote:
Perhaps also worth noting is the Seattle mayoral election. Bruce Harrell, former President of the City Council (the loons running the asylum) leads the current President of the City Council Lorena Gonzalez by a large margin that is unlikely to be overcome. Mostly image related, but Harrell presents himself as more moderate and less progressive than Gonzalez.

Perhaps also noteworthy is Kshama Sawant, the left wing MTG is up for a recall. She's played this rather interestingly. Over the summer she and her supporters signed the recall and said she hoped it made it to the ballot. Now she's complaining because the county didn't process it in time to be put on the general ballot and it will be a special election.


Anyone could have told Gonzalez her campaign was going to be a huge waste of time and money...oh well!
 
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:17 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

The reason this is coming to a head now is with the remote learning due to COVID, parents are now seeing exactly what is being taught. I have witnessed first hand my child's civics teacher giving biased and incorrect information about the bill or rights. All I wanted was a sandwich for lunch and I had to listed to teachers political stance on the 1st amendment. The 1st amendment is pretty clear cut, yet they managed in interject their beliefs into it. Had I not heard it, my kiddo wouldn't have know anything other that the incorrect statements of her teacher. Yes it was addressed.


What kind of biased and incorrect statements?


I'm not going to get into that story. The content is irrelevant for anything else than trying to discredit my experience. The point was that I would not have known except for the RONA.


With several nuances ignored and conflations abound, I thought it would be interesting to know to what extent beliefs could be 'interjected' into a 1A lesson.
 
FGITD
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:21 pm

This whole conversation is ridiculous.

They’re teaching CRT! Ok well no…but they’re influenced by it! Ok well maybe not…but they’ve definitely heard about it!

And the solid evidence is a mystery story about a teacher who taught the 1st amendment wrong, but no specifics as to how because it will only be used to “discredit” the user. Yea, no kidding. If schools bent to the will of parents, kids would learn absolutely nothing of value.

There’s a reason the “homeschool weirdo” stereotype exists.

It’s also incredible that the same side that complains we need to teach both sides of the civil war and slavery argues that when it comes to race relations…nah, we’re good with the story as is.

You know it’s funny, I almost never see minority parents on the news or at school board meetings being asked about how race relations is being taught.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:41 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I'll give you a non-education analogy to make it more simple: we do trainings in the company to promote best practices and provide resources for handling promotions and compensation decisions with empathy. That does not mean it is codified - managers are not evaluated on an 'empathy scale' and there is no policy in place mandating level of empathy or how to express it. So it really cannot be said that 'empathy is an influence in business operations' even though we devote resources to it. We just think it's better for employee relations overall to have than not.


But if you promoted CRT in those trainings, you could not deny that it influences your company.


Of course we could - especially if its contents do not appear anywhere in our client interactions or work product. :boggled:


Unless its listed in a public memorandum.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:45 pm

I think this is a fairly good take on why democrats are hated and why these elections turned out the way they did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqosNKdL3s
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:46 pm

casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

What kind of biased and incorrect statements?


I'm not going to get into that story. The content is irrelevant for anything else than trying to discredit my experience. The point was that I would not have known except for the RONA.


That is a teacher issue, not a school board subject issue, and I would stand again that you would need to take your kid to "Homeschool" if you want the 1st Amendment taught "your way"


Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:57 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

I'm not going to get into that story. The content is irrelevant for anything else than trying to discredit my experience. The point was that I would not have known except for the RONA.


That is a teacher issue, not a school board subject issue, and I would stand again that you would need to take your kid to "Homeschool" if you want the 1st Amendment taught "your way"


Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.


So now that I point out that your teacher bias that you blamed the school board for ,. was really an issue with one teacher, who was hired by a principal for a school, not by the school board. You have no argument left, other than the lies told by fox news about political bias. My guess is that your first amendment argument was a rather political one.

Yet you want CRT out of the schools. That is political bias. Because it is not there in the first place. My taxes fund the education department as well. Helicopter parents that aren't good enough to home school their own kids, or teach them morals at home. Blame the teachers for their failures. These are the people continuing to drive the CRT argument. ON top of it. These indignant parents continue to cut school budgets and keep salaries low , to the point that decent and qualified teachers are harder and harder to come by.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:10 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

I'm not going to get into that story. The content is irrelevant for anything else than trying to discredit my experience. The point was that I would not have known except for the RONA.


That is a teacher issue, not a school board subject issue, and I would stand again that you would need to take your kid to "Homeschool" if you want the 1st Amendment taught "your way"


Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.


That was my point about the 1A story - you brought it up, but when I sought to understand the issue more, total disengagement. It’s kinda hard to ascertain the situation going off so little. What was the lesson content you heard and what would have been an unbiased alternative?
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:18 pm

casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

That is a teacher issue, not a school board subject issue, and I would stand again that you would need to take your kid to "Homeschool" if you want the 1st Amendment taught "your way"


Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.


So now that I point out that your teacher bias that you blamed the school board for ,. was really an issue with one teacher, who was hired by a principal for a school, not by the school board. You have no argument left, other than the lies told by fox news about political bias. My guess is that your first amendment argument was a rather political one.

Yet you want CRT out of the schools. That is political bias. Because it is not there in the first place. My taxes fund the education department as well. Helicopter parents that aren't good enough to home school their own kids, or teach them morals at home. Blame the teachers for their failures. These are the people continuing to drive the CRT argument. ON top of it. These indignant parents continue to cut school budgets and keep salaries low , to the point that decent and qualified teachers are harder and harder to come by.


Reread what I am saying. I am pointing out several different issues and have provided written proof about CRT and its connection to VA education. The example I pointed out with my kiddo is different that the CRT as a resource from the Superintendent of Public Education, which is different from the assault cover ups, which is different from the private FB groups......not sure what is hard to understand about that. I have not blamed the schools on my children's grades, my kids get good grades. I can't comment on the quality of teacher salaries in LCPS as I am not in that field so I don't know how they stack up, but Loudoun county generally approves all tax referendums related to schools.

You are simply trying to argue and attack me because I have a point of view that is different than yours. I am telling you what the parents in Loudoun County generally feel about the situaiton, yet you are dismissing me. It is pointless to discuss this further with you. Have a good day.
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:20 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

That is a teacher issue, not a school board subject issue, and I would stand again that you would need to take your kid to "Homeschool" if you want the 1st Amendment taught "your way"


Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.


That was my point about the 1A story - you brought it up, but when I sought to understand the issue more, total disengagement. It’s kinda hard to ascertain the situation going off so little. What was the lesson content you heard and what would have been an unbiased alternative?


It was just an example of how I saw first hand what was being taught. Without getting into the weeds, the teacher basically said that hate speech isn't protected under the 1st. That is completely wrong, regardless of how disgusting the speech is, you have the right to say it.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:22 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.


So now that I point out that your teacher bias that you blamed the school board for ,. was really an issue with one teacher, who was hired by a principal for a school, not by the school board. You have no argument left, other than the lies told by fox news about political bias. My guess is that your first amendment argument was a rather political one.

Yet you want CRT out of the schools. That is political bias. Because it is not there in the first place. My taxes fund the education department as well. Helicopter parents that aren't good enough to home school their own kids, or teach them morals at home. Blame the teachers for their failures. These are the people continuing to drive the CRT argument. ON top of it. These indignant parents continue to cut school budgets and keep salaries low , to the point that decent and qualified teachers are harder and harder to come by.


Reread what I am saying. I am pointing out several different issues and have provided written proof about CRT and its connection to VA education. The example I pointed out with my kiddo is different that the CRT as a resource from the Superintendent of Public Education, which is different from the assault cover ups, which is different from the private FB groups......not sure what is hard to understand about that. I have not blamed the schools on my children's grades, my kids get good grades. I can't comment on the quality of teacher salaries in LCPS as I am not in that field so I don't know how they stack up, but Loudoun county generally approves all tax referendums related to schools.

You are simply trying to argue and attack me because I have a point of view that is different than yours. I am telling you what the parents in Loudoun County generally feel about the situaiton, yet you are dismissing me. It is pointless to discuss this further with you. Have a good day.

'
1. The CRT book was for teachers and administrators to read as it is very informative about very real issues in US treatment. If CRT is false, you will have to provide me with a real reason why over 90% of the state government members that vote for the bans are white.
2. Private Facebook groups for teachers that want a social outlet is wrong? are they not allowed to speak to each other outside of school in your mind?
3. Assault coverup? or privacy issue? I can't even get reports on covid in the schools due to HIPPA Laws and privacy laws.
4. I pointed out that CRT as an issue was a driving factor in what drove the vote for Youngkin. Nothing you have stated has disproven this.
 
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Tugger
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:27 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
You are simply trying to argue and attack me because I have a point of view that is different than yours. I am telling you what the parents in Loudoun County generally feel about the situaiton, yet you are dismissing me. It is pointless to discuss this further with you. Have a good day.

You like repeating this a lot. And it is simply not true. I am fine with your point of view. But you are making claims that are simply not supported as to why you have that point of view. And we are pointing that out. That is not attacking your point of view, it is addressing your evidence and reasoning based on that for you point of view. If you come out and just state "This is my point of view, I don't care what the evidence says or shows" then all right, the discussion will be mostly over (Not that you still won't have people disagreeing with you).

Tugg
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:31 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

Really? There are several issues at play, the school board is just one of them the memo is another. Together they make up the totality of the circumstances. You obviously are only reading my posts looking to argue with me and not understand the issue or my preceptive. Doing so (on both sides) is a large part of what is causing the divide in this country.

I didn't say teach the First my way, teach it the right way without your political bias, that what I asked. My taxes fund the education department, I should have a say and not have to homeschool.


That was my point about the 1A story - you brought it up, but when I sought to understand the issue more, total disengagement. It’s kinda hard to ascertain the situation going off so little. What was the lesson content you heard and what would have been an unbiased alternative?


It was just an example of how I saw first hand what was being taught. Without getting into the weeds, the teacher basically said that hate speech isn't protected under the 1st. That is completely wrong, regardless of how disgusting the speech is, you have the right to say it.


Okay, if it was couched in that way, sure that’s erroneous information. But it’s not ‘completely wrong’ depending on level of nuance. If the teacher explained that some cases may incur a different standard, such as hate speech in school that includes obscenity, the school could use the latter for discipline because obscenity is not protected.

I’m just not sure where the obvious ‘political injection’ was - they simply may not be up on SCOTUS decisions or did not explain with enough care.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:46 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That was my point about the 1A story - you brought it up, but when I sought to understand the issue more, total disengagement. It’s kinda hard to ascertain the situation going off so little. What was the lesson content you heard and what would have been an unbiased alternative?


It was just an example of how I saw first hand what was being taught. Without getting into the weeds, the teacher basically said that hate speech isn't protected under the 1st. That is completely wrong, regardless of how disgusting the speech is, you have the right to say it.


Okay, if it was couched in that way, sure that’s erroneous information. But it’s not ‘completely wrong’ depending on level of nuance. If the teacher explained that some cases may incur a different standard, such as hate speech in school that includes obscenity, the school could use the latter for discipline because obscenity is not protected.

I’m just not sure where the obvious ‘political injection’ was - they simply may not be up on SCOTUS decisions or did not explain with enough care.


They could have been talking about school as well. but we don't know. Interesting article on Freedom of Speech and schools .

http://www.nationalforum.com/Electronic ... 202011.pdf

Based on the Bethel and Hazelwood decisions, the school’s authority to prohibit
“lewd, vulgar, and offensive” speech in the context of school-sponsored activities is well
established. Recent courts have followed these precedents by allowing censorship of
student speeches at school assemblies provided that the decision was based on “legitimate
pedagogical concerns” (Poling v. Murthy, 1990).
 
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Tugger
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:49 pm

Basically freedom of speech will protect the ability of a teacher to teach things that need to be taught. The counterweight is and always will be parental/community reaction and input. So the current discussion in board meetings etc will continue and laws proscribing something being taught will be voided.

CRT may or may not be taught but a law against it won't win out.

And just to be clear, currently CRT isn't and hasn't taught in K-12 school. However as a university level point of study and school of thought, along with such things as the 1619 Project etc., there may be influence and elements of such things being taught and shared throughout society. Same thing happened for civil rights, women's suffrage, the Bill of Rights etc.

Tugg
 
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seb146
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:09 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
You’re right to an extent, but you can’t waive it all away as some phantom issue…you had the city council of a major American city pledge to defund their police department and it’s been pushed in various forms by activist groups as ballot measures in many jurisdictions. This was a policy area where activists and certain progressive Democrats clearly overplayed their hand and was not in alignment with the desires of most Democrat voters even. Sure, you can say the Democrat party never “officially” endorsed such a position…but they certainly didn’t go out of their way to refute such policies.


And "defund" has not seen much support other than from right wingers who use it as a scare tactic to gin up their base. Just like how they use critical race theory to scare their base or the myth of illegals living high on the government handouts. All lies, every one. But, the right wing does not care. It gets people agitated.

The "democrat party" never endorsed defund because the "democrat party" does not exist. It is the DEMOCRATIC party and, no, they never endorsed defund. What they DID endorse was finding a way to take pressure off police. Instead of making police a catch-all for everyone, send out mental health experts to do welfare checks, train police that shooting an unarmed suspect in the back is never ever an option... things like that are what the DEMOCRATIC party endorses. But, we can't do that because, for some reason, that is "defund" and Republicans want to continue the myth of "socialist Democrats" endorsing "defund" somehow...
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:33 pm

Tugger wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
You are simply trying to argue and attack me because I have a point of view that is different than yours. I am telling you what the parents in Loudoun County generally feel about the situaiton, yet you are dismissing me. It is pointless to discuss this further with you. Have a good day.

You like repeating this a lot. And it is simply not true. I am fine with your point of view. But you are making claims that are simply not supported as to why you have that point of view. And we are pointing that out. That is not attacking your point of view, it is addressing your evidence and reasoning based on that for you point of view. If you come out and just state "This is my point of view, I don't care what the evidence says or shows" then all right, the discussion will be mostly over (Not that you still won't have people disagreeing with you).

Tugg

You are telling me that what I am experiencing as a parent at ground zero of this discussion is not true, I call that attacking. Discussing what I am experiencing would be one thing, but y'all are out right telling my what I deal with daily is false. If the left keeps up this attitude, they will lose a lot more than the VA Governor's race next year.
 
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casinterest
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:37 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
You are simply trying to argue and attack me because I have a point of view that is different than yours. I am telling you what the parents in Loudoun County generally feel about the situaiton, yet you are dismissing me. It is pointless to discuss this further with you. Have a good day.

You like repeating this a lot. And it is simply not true. I am fine with your point of view. But you are making claims that are simply not supported as to why you have that point of view. And we are pointing that out. That is not attacking your point of view, it is addressing your evidence and reasoning based on that for you point of view. If you come out and just state "This is my point of view, I don't care what the evidence says or shows" then all right, the discussion will be mostly over (Not that you still won't have people disagreeing with you).

Tugg

You are telling me that what I am experiencing as a parent at ground zero of this discussion is not true, I call that attacking. Discussing what I am experiencing would be one thing, but y'all are out right telling my what I deal with daily is false. If the left keeps up this attitude, they will lose a lot more than the VA Governor's race next year.



No one is telling you what you are dealing with is false. Those are your own personal issues. But when you complain about school boards with personal issues that are not related to what the school board or schools are responsible for, that becomes everyone's problem. Especially when the perception is on Anti-Mask mandates and Anti CRT right wing agendas
 
bpatus297
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That was my point about the 1A story - you brought it up, but when I sought to understand the issue more, total disengagement. It’s kinda hard to ascertain the situation going off so little. What was the lesson content you heard and what would have been an unbiased alternative?


It was just an example of how I saw first hand what was being taught. Without getting into the weeds, the teacher basically said that hate speech isn't protected under the 1st. That is completely wrong, regardless of how disgusting the speech is, you have the right to say it.


Okay, if it was couched in that way, sure that’s erroneous information. But it’s not ‘completely wrong’ depending on level of nuance. If the teacher explained that some cases may incur a different standard, such as hate speech in school that includes obscenity, the school could use the latter for discipline because obscenity is not protected.

I’m just not sure where the obvious ‘political injection’ was - they simply may not be up on SCOTUS decisions or did not explain with enough care.


I sat in on the class after what I heard, no she was not addressing anything related to school. The politics came in when she started to talk about Charlottesville and Trump relating to hate speech and the 1st. I'm not getting into it any further as y'all will just tell me how I am wrong.

As for the FB group, the school board member and others were gathering information to threaten and intimidate people they disagreed with. While they can discuss what they want in said groups, as long as no action is taken on the words, a school board member was active in this activity. Again, just another example of the problems we have been facing.
Last edited by bpatus297 on Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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ztarizona
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:48 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I know it's off year and not much going on. I feel Murphy has done well in NJ (wish he was NY Governor) and will be re-elected rather easily. All eyes on Virginia as it seems the state may elect a Red Governor. I do think Biden's horrible year is playing into this election and it will be interesting to see the outcome. If Youngkin wins It will be interesting to see if the Dem party reverses course and stops with the AOC progressive stuff for it's hurting them heading into a huge mid term election next year and moving toward the middle would be the logical choice since none of their legislation has any chance at passing without Manchin and Sinema.

Lets discuss.


The "middle" where we pay our politicians 150k a year so they can reap campaign contributions from big pharma and corporations to keep each of us busy, sick and numb. Yeah, no.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:12 pm

ztarizona wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I know it's off year and not much going on. I feel Murphy has done well in NJ (wish he was NY Governor) and will be re-elected rather easily. All eyes on Virginia as it seems the state may elect a Red Governor. I do think Biden's horrible year is playing into this election and it will be interesting to see the outcome. If Youngkin wins It will be interesting to see if the Dem party reverses course and stops with the AOC progressive stuff for it's hurting them heading into a huge mid term election next year and moving toward the middle would be the logical choice since none of their legislation has any chance at passing without Manchin and Sinema.

Lets discuss.


The "middle" where we pay our politicians 150k a year so they can reap campaign contributions from big pharma and corporations to keep each of us busy, sick and numb. Yeah, no.


Then, join me in seeking to drastically reduce politicians powers so they won’t be getting captured by the money. Politicians are gritting us—take away their influence and you’ll take away their money
 
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Tugger
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Re: 2021 US Elections.

Thu Nov 04, 2021 7:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Then, join me in seeking to drastically reduce politicians powers so they won’t be getting captured by the money. Politicians are gritting us—take away their influence and you’ll take away their money

How do you reduce their power? They make policy, policies the public pursues, which affects everything. Companies, people, property, the environment. How do "reduce power" when that is the core of their task? And influencing those policies, laws, and regulations are exactly why they are given money.

Tugg

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