VP Harris feels "constrained" politically

NIKV69 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:35 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/politics ... index.html

Bombshell news, surprised this thread hasn't been started already. Lot's of leaks in the WH and with a tough midterms staring the Dems in the face this is the last thing they needed.

VP Harris thought a Biden win would be a coronation for her as President. That never had any chance and now with her poll numbers at historic lows and no support she knows if she tries in the next primary it will be a repeat of the last one where she got no support. I hope she realizes she is only VP because Biden made a deal with the black Caucus who saved his butt in the Primary and after a year she has shown she is in way over her head and has no executive experience or skillset. She learned the hard way that debating is easy because you just sling mud but once you have to govern it's a bit different. It will be very interesting to see how next year plays out but to watch her try to talk to the press is brutal. Totally unprepared and doesn't know much about the economy or any of the vital issues for that matter. The border is a disaster and she has done nothing in her role as Border Czar. She was asked a question about inflation by Bloomberg and it was cringeworthy to watch her totally botch it. The endgame here seems bad for Biden. Wonder how he will handle this latest crisis.

What say you?

johns624 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:40 pm

Biden and his handlers painted themselves into a corner when they announced early on that they wanted a "woman of color" to be VP.

Tugger · Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:56 pm

She grates on my nerves. Her voice especially. I just found her awkward and poor in how she handles things.

I guess that in California she had political connections but nationally she doesn't have that and she certainly does not have great political ability.

Tugg

M564038 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:14 pm

Weird thing to discuss, but since you mention it: I find her voice very attractive. It sounds very, very nice. She would have made a great singer.

She has been too much in the background, I agree, but somehow I don’t quite trust the analysis of the Airliners.com conservative boy scouts club debate team.

Tugger wrote:
She grates on my nerves. Her voice especially. I just found her awkward and poor in how she handles things.

I guess that in California she had political connections but nationally she doesn't have that and she certainly does not have great political ability.

Tugg

737307 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:31 pm

What is the probability she resigns before the midterms, attempting to save her career by distancing herself from the fumbling WH?

N626AA · Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:33 pm

johns624 wrote:
Biden and his handlers painted themselves into a corner when they announced early on that they wanted a "woman of color" to be VP.

They wanted diversity over merit.

stl07 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:10 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
What is the probability she resigns before the midterms, attempting to save her career by distancing herself from the fumbling WH?

0

Also the only people saying the admin is failing are the seditionists (Sorry-more politically correct would be Trump voters) anyways. He just passed a huge infrastructure bill that Trump ran on and could pass in 4 whole years within his first year as president.

stl07 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:14 pm

N626AA wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Biden and his handlers painted themselves into a corner when they announced early on that they wanted a "woman of color" to be VP.

They wanted diversity over merit.

You think Trump didn't do the exact same thing? Mike Pence does not have any sort of intellect to run a country, but they needed a Christian* Conservative to balance out Trump's playboy lifestyle that included cheating, stealing, many wives and side hoes and probably men as well.

*Evangelical Republican "Christianity" as nothing to do with the Bible

Aaron747 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/politics/kamala-harris-frustrating-start-vice-president/index.html

Bombshell news, surprised this thread hasn't been started already. Lot's of leaks in the WH and with a tough midterms staring the Dems in the face this is the last thing they needed.

VP Harris thought a Biden win would be a coronation for her as President. That never had any chance and now with her poll numbers at historic lows and no support she knows if she tries in the next primary it will be a repeat of the last one where she got no support. I hope she realizes she is only VP because Biden made a deal with the black Caucus who saved his butt in the Primary and after a year she has shown she is in way over her head and has no executive experience or skillset. She learned the hard way that debating is easy because you just sling mud but once you have to govern it's a bit different. It will be very interesting to see how next year plays out but to watch her try to talk to the press is brutal. Totally unprepared and doesn't know much about the economy or any of the vital issues for that matter. The border is a disaster and she has done nothing in her role as Border Czar. She was asked a question about inflation by Bloomberg and it was cringeworthy to watch her totally botch it. The endgame here seems bad for Biden. Wonder how he will handle this latest crisis.

What say you?

Not sure where you get your information - no executive experience..?

7 years - SF County DA - 110 employees
7 years - CA Attorney General - 4,500 employees

Just odd to make stuff up with so many facts available.

Aaron747 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:26 pm

N626AA wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Biden and his handlers painted themselves into a corner when they announced early on that they wanted a "woman of color" to be VP.

They wanted diversity over merit.

She has a lot of executive experience - I think they wanted someone younger and more energetic over all else. And also lot of VPs have not had national presence before being elevated. Dan Quayle...Al Gore? C’mon :lol:

That said, like the two I mentioned, she’s obviously better at the day to day stuff than politicking. She will not be able to secure a massive national following, like Quayle, due to some awkwardness.

ltbewr · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:27 pm

Vice Presidents are in weird positions. As a VP Gardner with FDR said it's 'not worth a bucket of warm piss' [often the word spit used instead]. They are literally one bad heartbeat away from becoming President but have limited powers, often given assignments to keep the President looking good, usually chosen to balance a weak area of the President with critical voters in the elections. Harris was in large part chosen to appease Black and other voters in the election due to issues brought up by the BLM movement/protests. She is also facing massive criticism for although one of her assignments is to deal with immigration, she has ignored the border communities and national issues of many voters have. She also has a poor relationship of her staff and the President's, some personality issues around it. This is not good for anyone and unlikely to end well in 2022 and 2024.

Tugger · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Not sure where you get your information - no executive experience..?

7 years - SF County DA - 110 employees
7 years - CA Attorney General - 4,500 employees

Just odd to make stuff up with so many facts available.

While that may be executive experience, I never found her to be "creating" rather she "enforced" what had been created. And when tasked to create and build support for things she has fumbled several times. But that is my opinion. I am sure she has done a lot on her own and has an amazing drive.

The hardest thing for a VP to do is to take the second billing, they have to do what they are told and I don't think she wants to do that. She wants to do her own thing, to not be behind President Biden where she has no control. Still that is a huge problem as the VP MUST appear to be "behind the president" to be supportive and most importantly making the president look good in what they are doing for them.

Despite claims to the contrary, Biden is trying to run a more centrist administration (allowing for the "left/progressive" political realities required of him) than progressives like Ms. Harris want. And I think she wants to not be connected with that. (In my opinion)

Tugg

M564038 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:58 pm

You guys really go all out with the gaslighting, don’t you.
Biden and Harris, are the 2 most rock solid, completely neutral, morally fit and mainstream middle of the road people on the american continent, but that doesn’t stop you, does it?
There is just no honesty or honor on the right.
None.

Aaron747 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:05 pm

Tugger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Not sure where you get your information - no executive experience..?

7 years - SF County DA - 110 employees
7 years - CA Attorney General - 4,500 employees

Just odd to make stuff up with so many facts available.

While that may be executive experience, I never found her to be "creating" rather she "enforced" what had been created. And when tasked to create and build support for things she has fumbled several times. But that is my opinion. I am sure she has done a lot on her own and has an amazing drive.

The hardest thing for a VP to do is to take the second billing, they have to do what they are told and I don't think she wants to do that. She wants to do her own thing, to not be behind President Biden where she has no control. Still that is a huge problem as the VP MUST appear to be "behind the president" to be supportive and most importantly making the president look good in what they are doing for them.

Despite claims to the contrary, Biden is trying to run a more centrist administration (allowing for the "left/progressive" political realities required of him) than progressives like Ms. Harris want. And I think she wants to not be connected with that. (In my opinion)

Tugg

Other than being for aggressive climate policy and Medicare for all, I don’t see much daylight between Harris’s ‘progressive’ footing and the administration at large.

Talk to progressives in SF and you’ll hear completely different takes on her: too hard on criminals and punishment, too friendly to large banks and white collar crime, and so on. Such is the trouble with media-driven labeling.

johns624 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:10 pm

The funny thing about the VP position is that, although they are legally the #2 person in the country, as long as the president is still around, it's a big drop. On a day-to-day basis, I'd say that the Speaker of the House, Secretaries of State, Defense and Treasury, and Attorney General all have more real power. I may have even missed one or two.
Following up on that thought, I think too many progressives were expecting too much from her. Like I said, the VP really can't do anything other than "assignments" given to her by POTUS. She can't make policy or have her own agenda. As far as Pence being no better, two wrongs don't make a right. Very few VPs ever run for president and succeed. In the last 100+ years, the only VPs that were elected president without taking over from a president who died in office were Nixon and Bush I.

johns624 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:14 pm

Hey Tugger, it appears that M564038 thinks we're right wingers. :biggrin:

That says more about him than it does us. I always thought that we were thinking moderates.

TWA772LR · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:15 pm

Well at face value in the Constitution the VP is effectively useless anyway. This stint was just to groom her for the POTUS gig.

And hindsight tells us (well it was still evident at the time) that Biden was just put up against Trump due to the Obama star power he had and that the Presidential election is just a big popularity contest now. Beavis and Butthead would've been better candidates than both parties offerings.

NIKV69 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/14/politics/kamala-harris-frustrating-start-vice-president/index.html

Bombshell news, surprised this thread hasn't been started already. Lot's of leaks in the WH and with a tough midterms staring the Dems in the face this is the last thing they needed.

VP Harris thought a Biden win would be a coronation for her as President. That never had any chance and now with her poll numbers at historic lows and no support she knows if she tries in the next primary it will be a repeat of the last one where she got no support. I hope she realizes she is only VP because Biden made a deal with the black Caucus who saved his butt in the Primary and after a year she has shown she is in way over her head and has no executive experience or skillset. She learned the hard way that debating is easy because you just sling mud but once you have to govern it's a bit different. It will be very interesting to see how next year plays out but to watch her try to talk to the press is brutal. Totally unprepared and doesn't know much about the economy or any of the vital issues for that matter. The border is a disaster and she has done nothing in her role as Border Czar. She was asked a question about inflation by Bloomberg and it was cringeworthy to watch her totally botch it. The endgame here seems bad for Biden. Wonder how he will handle this latest crisis.

What say you?

Not sure where you get your information - no executive experience..?

7 years - SF County DA - 110 employees

7 years - CA Attorney General - 4,500 employees

Just odd to make stuff up with so many facts available.

DAs and AGs prosecute crimes, They don't run anything don't handle budgets set taxes etc. Governors, mayors is more what I meant.

johns624 wrote:
Biden and his handlers painted themselves into a corner when they announced early on that they wanted a "woman of color" to be VP.

.

Yep sure did. He would have been much better off with Klobuchar.

Dieuwer wrote:
What is the probability she resigns before the midterms, attempting to save her career by distancing herself from the fumbling WH?

I think she will stick it out until then but once the presidential cycle starts for 2024 she may resign to run even though every one in her party is telling her she has no chance. Her fragile ego can't handle it.

skyservice_330 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:30 pm

As much as I understand the emotional feel good feelz that some may get by trying to predict and position the future as if it is pre determined fait accompli - politics is a fickle business, and 6 days is a long time in it, never mind midterms and presidential races that are months/years away. Time will tell.

Aesma · Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:31 pm

From abroad nobody cares about the US VP, nobody knows who it is at any point in time. She came to France a couple days ago, nobody noticed.

To me the VP is there to gain a few votes for the presidential election, Biden won so she served her purpose. If she stays unpopular and Biden is a candidate again (something I can't wrap my head around) I wouldn't be surprised if she's not on the ticket. It's possible one reason Trump lost is that Pence is so bland as to be transparent.

ER757 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:29 pm

johns624 wrote:
Very few VPs ever run for president and succeed. In the last 100+ years, the only VPs that were elected president without taking over from a president who died in office were Nixon and Bush I.

This is going to be quite the conundrum for the Dems in 2024. Biden almost surely will not seek a 2nd term (if he lives long enough to fulfill his first term). Harris, if she chose to run, which seems likely, could make for a very raucous and disruptive primary season. I think she'd have almost no chance in the general election, but how to the Dems go with another candidate if the sitting VP runs?

Aaron747 · Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:29 pm

NIKV69 wrote:

DAs and AGs prosecute crimes, They don't run anything don't handle budgets set taxes etc.

Don't run anything or handle budgets...hmm. Well now we know you don't have much idea about the extent of program/project management within a major government legal administration. :tapedshut:

DA/AG are arguably much more hands-on executive positions than being a governor where you have a team of political advisors guiding decisionmaking.

casinterest · Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:41 pm

M564038 wrote:
You guys really go all out with the gaslighting, don’t you.
Biden and Harris, are the 2 most rock solid, completely neutral, morally fit and mainstream middle of the road people on the american continent, but that doesn’t stop you, does it?
There is just no honesty or honor on the right.
None.

The Wyoming GOP just kicked one of the most conservative people out, because she didn't go along with the big lie from their cult leader. Full stop.
There is no honesty, integrity, or morals left on the right.

wingman · Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

DAs and AGs prosecute crimes, They don't run anything don't handle budgets set taxes etc.

Don't run anything or handle budgets...hmm. Well now we know you don't have much idea about the extent of program/project management within a major government legal administration. DA/AG are arguably much more hands-on executive positions than being a governor where you have a team of political advisors guiding decisionmaking.

All AGs do is prosecute crimes. How does one even have attempt to have an intelligent conversation with a person like this? Then again his party put up Pence who couldn't be in a room with women when his wife wasn't present (I mean for eff's sake), Dan Quayle Mr. Potato Head and then Sarah Palin with her x-ray Russia vision.

NIKKY boy, ain't nothing in this world will ever be as utterly incompetent as your Orange Clown Posse heroes. That's a fact.

Jetsgo · Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:25 am

stl07 wrote:
and side hoes and probably men as well.

Hoes and men. Tell us how you really feel about women.

M564038 wrote:
You guys really go all out with the gaslighting, don’t you. Biden and Harris, are the 2 most rock solid, completely neutral, morally fit and mainstream middle of the road people on the american continent, but that doesn’t stop you, does it?

That has to be some of the funniest ish I’ve seen on here in a LONG time. Please pass whatever you’re having.

NIKV69 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

DAs and AGs prosecute crimes, They don't run anything don't handle budgets set taxes etc.

Don't run anything or handle budgets...hmm. Well now we know you don't have much idea about the extent of program/project management within a major government legal administration. DA/AG are arguably much more hands-on executive positions than being a governor where you have a team of political advisors guiding decisionmaking.

DA's oversee the attorneys below them and their work is all law related. Project management? What are you talking about? She had a Chief of staff that did all the other stuff. It's why she is utterly useless in her current role and can't even function and why she is cratering. Her own party doesn't even want her in any office.

Aaron747 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:37 am

NIKV69 wrote:
DA's oversee the attorneys below them and their work is all law related. Project management? What are you talking about?

This says all anyone needs to know. Sometimes it's better to just admit you don't know much about the inner workings of a particular field. No project management in legal administration? :rotfl:

phluser · Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:15 am

johns624 wrote:
Biden and his handlers painted themselves into a corner when they announced early on that they wanted a "woman of color" to be VP.

That's not exactly accurate. Biden announced he would want a woman to be his VP during a debate with Bernie Sanders, before Covid got bad. Apparently it was an attempt to make news, even though Bernie was already performing poorly and had little chance of attaining the Democratic nomination. Bernie and Tulsi were the only candidates, besides Biden, that had not dropped out but Tulsi didn't qualify for the debate.

Then after George Floyd's death and BLM activism was charged, it pretty much could not be Klobuchar, and it had to be a woman of color and somehow the lists of candidates were all Black women. I'd rather it went to Tammy Duckworth, but she isn't black, but she would likely be acceptable to most Black Democratic voters. They didn't like Klobuchar that much though. If it had to be a Black woman, I'd rather see Val Demings offered the VP position, but Biden was hell bent on Beau's friendship with Kamala as like a personal reference. But she just wasn't likeable even back then.

At the time it was offered to Harris, Michael Moore was glad it was Harris over Susan Rice, because Harris was viewed as more progressive and could get more progressives out to vote. But in the end, I think Biden would have won with Susan Rice as well, and Rice would probably be able to handle interviews better as VP.

stl07 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:16 am

Jetsgo wrote:
stl07 wrote:
and side hoes and probably men as well.

Hoes and men. Tell us how you really feel about women.

M564038 wrote:
You guys really go all out with the gaslighting, don’t you. Biden and Harris, are the 2 most rock solid, completely neutral, morally fit and mainstream middle of the road people on the american continent, but that doesn’t stop you, does it?

That has to be some of the funniest ish I’ve seen on here in a LONG time. Please pass whatever you’re having.

you can't be serious, I'm talking about your dear leader not myself

Okie · Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:28 am

I think you are under thinking this "constrained" situation.
The conflict I believe is to get Harris out, as in "resign". Too much noise internally in the DNC.

My guess that Pelosi will shortly in the House, introduce to either nominate Michelle Obama or Susan Rice in as VP post haste before or early 22. They need someone to replace Biden before the 22 elections while the DNC has leverage.

Okie

Redd · Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:20 am

Harris is what you get when identity politics trump merit when it comes to picking a VP

M564038 wrote:
You guys really go all out with the gaslighting, don’t you.
Biden and Harris, are the 2 most rock solid, completely neutral, morally fit and mainstream middle of the road people on the american continent, but that doesn’t stop you, does it?
There is just no honesty or honor on the right.
None.

How's the coolaid in Jonestown this time of year?

Redd · Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:22 am

Jetsgo wrote:
That has to be some of the funniest ish I’ve seen on here in a LONG time. Please pass whatever you’re having.

I don't think you want it. I suspect it causes permanent damage.

johns624 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:01 pm

Okie wrote:
I think you are under thinking this "constrained" situation.
The conflict I believe is to get Harris out, as in "resign". Too much noise internally in the DNC.

My guess that Pelosi will shortly in the House, introduce to either nominate Michelle Obama or Susan Rice in as VP post haste before or early 22. They need someone to replace Biden before the 22 elections while the DNC has leverage.

Okie

Not going to happen.

NIKV69 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:51 pm

Okie wrote:
I think you are under thinking this "constrained" situation.
The conflict I believe is to get Harris out, as in "resign". Too much noise internally in the DNC.

My guess that Pelosi will shortly in the House, introduce to either nominate Michelle Obama or Susan Rice in as VP post haste before or early 22. They need someone to replace Biden before the 22 elections while the DNC has leverage.

Okie

I think this was a Tiger by the tail from the beginning, asking her to be VP was a huge mistake and Biden was bullied into it. Then I think the plan was to only serve one term and have her run for President. This of course was contigent on them doing a good job having the economy good etc. Once Afghanistan and all the other disasters have occurred their approval ratings are both in the toiliet and now they have a huge problem. Harris needs to accept she can't win an election and go away since she is only hurting the party but her ego is too big. Will Pelosi do what you say? I doubt it because the DNC has no idea what to do at this point. They never envisioned being in this position where the Dem party is so unpopular and things getting worse.

casinterest · Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:58 pm

I think people are reading too much into a 10 month ordeal. At this point, Pence was still sucking on pacifiers, and walking out in Tantrums on 80,000 people over one person kneeling.

Much of the "issues" are due to the prolonged ending of Covid due to lies from the far right, and the effect those lies had on the economy. Starting in January there will be a lot more economic freedom, and there will be more areas to start pushing the US into the correct agenda, and away from the lies of cultists still worshiping a fraud.

LCDFlight · Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:07 pm

Her strategy is keep her head down, eat right and work out in anticipation of 2024 or, more likely, 2028. No one will be able to oppose her. People know she will likely become president, which is why they are so afraid of her. The best solution is stay away.

seb146 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:33 pm

This is just the right trying to make something out of nothing. Let's also not forget that there was zero communication between the previous administration and the current. They literally started from scratch. They were set up to fail and, yet, this current administration seems to be doing pretty good. Even having such little information to go on. But, any excuse to hate Democrats, I suppose. The Democratic party seems to be in disarray because they are not in lock step with each other. They are not ousting party leaders for having an opinion. Democrats are playing chess while Republicans are playing tiddly-winks. Democrats are looking at the long game, Republicans simply want power. Unfortunately, for the freedom of the republic, Republicans will destroy the nation and shred the Constitution if they win in 2024.

NIKV69 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:25 pm

seb146 wrote:
This is just the right trying to make something out of nothing. Let's also not forget that there was zero communication between the previous administration and the current. They literally started from scratch. They were set up to fail and, yet, this current administration seems to be doing pretty good. Even having such little information to go on. But, any excuse to hate Democrats, I suppose. The Democratic party seems to be in disarray because they are not in lock step with each other. They are not ousting party leaders for having an opinion. Democrats are playing chess while Republicans are playing tiddly-winks. Democrats are looking at the long game, Republicans simply want power. Unfortunately, for the freedom of the republic, Republicans will destroy the nation and shred the Constitution if they win in 2024.

This is so tone deaf. The right? Who leaked and who broke the story? It wasn't the right. Reps will destroy the country? After 4 years of Trump this country sure looked a heck of a lot better than it has the last year and it has nothing to do with anyone but Joe Biden.

johns624 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:26 pm

I voted for Biden but wasn't happy with her as running mate.

M564038 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:26 pm

You are living in a fantasy world. After 4 years of Trump, the US was brought back to the stone age. It has fallen so far behind the rest of the world it is almost not believable how much damage could be done in 4 years.

I don’t know if you noticed, but for most of the post WWII-era, the world at large were in awe of the US.
Respected for it’s culture, it’s innovations, it’s technology and manufacturing, it’s leading role in academics, international cooperation and it’s balanced and real politik-oriented political climate.
After Trump it has become the laughing stock of the world. Worshiping this Moussolini/Franco-esqe character, while denouncing every but of fact and actual learned wisdom as left wing propaganda.

It is very sad to watch the american right wing having lost all contact with reality.

Biden is doing pretty good so far. They seem to understabd that it will take a lot of patience to get that chaos put in to order.

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This is just the right trying to make something out of nothing. Let's also not forget that there was zero communication between the previous administration and the current. They literally started from scratch. They were set up to fail and, yet, this current administration seems to be doing pretty good. Even having such little information to go on. But, any excuse to hate Democrats, I suppose. The Democratic party seems to be in disarray because they are not in lock step with each other. They are not ousting party leaders for having an opinion. Democrats are playing chess while Republicans are playing tiddly-winks. Democrats are looking at the long game, Republicans simply want power. Unfortunately, for the freedom of the republic, Republicans will destroy the nation and shred the Constitution if they win in 2024.

This is so tone deaf. The right? Who leaked and who broke the story? It wasn't the right. Reps will destroy the country? After 4 years of Trump this country sure looked a heck of a lot better than it has the last year and it has nothing to do with anyone but Joe Biden.

Aaron747 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:41 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This is just the right trying to make something out of nothing. Let's also not forget that there was zero communication between the previous administration and the current. They literally started from scratch. They were set up to fail and, yet, this current administration seems to be doing pretty good. Even having such little information to go on. But, any excuse to hate Democrats, I suppose. The Democratic party seems to be in disarray because they are not in lock step with each other. They are not ousting party leaders for having an opinion. Democrats are playing chess while Republicans are playing tiddly-winks. Democrats are looking at the long game, Republicans simply want power. Unfortunately, for the freedom of the republic, Republicans will destroy the nation and shred the Constitution if they win in 2024.

This is so tone deaf. The right? Who leaked and who broke the story? It wasn't the right. Reps will destroy the country? After 4 years of Trump this country sure looked a heck of a lot better than it has the last year and it has nothing to do with anyone but Joe Biden.

You missed out on a lucrative career dude - could have been writing shlock editorials for NY Post readers all these years. There are not many metrics where we were looking good after Trump, especially with the failed pandemic response. Even the AEI aays the tax cuts were a failure.

NIKV69 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:31 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

You missed out on a lucrative career dude - could have been writing shlock editorials for NY Post readers all these years. There are not many metrics where we were looking good after Trump, especially with the failed pandemic response. Even the AEI aays the tax cuts were a failure.

Well then the Dems should do great in the mid terms then. Can't wait!

M564038 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:19 pm

The problem is that the right has built and enormous propaganda machine that care not one iota about honesty, facts or truth itself. It’s all about grabbing power at all cost. No honor. No morals.

A working democracy requires some ground rules and common root in reality.

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You missed out on a lucrative career dude - could have been writing shlock editorials for NY Post readers all these years. There are not many metrics where we were looking good after Trump, especially with the failed pandemic response. Even the AEI aays the tax cuts were a failure.

Well then the Dems should do great in the mid terms then. Can't wait!

Aaron747 · Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:53 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You missed out on a lucrative career dude - could have been writing shlock editorials for NY Post readers all these years. There are not many metrics where we were looking good after Trump, especially with the failed pandemic response. Even the AEI aays the tax cuts were a failure.

Well then the Dems should do great in the mid terms then. Can't wait!

Neither party is looking after the center well at the moment, that’s just where we are. You may not have copped on to the pattern, but the constant swing back and forth in Congress is because every couple years the center decides the party in power isn’t getting it done and opts for the other. It’s a race to the bottom at this point.

johns624 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
You may not have copped on to the pattern, but the constant swing back and forth in Congress is because every couple years the center decides the party in power isn’t getting it done and opts for the other. It’s a race to the bottom at this point.

My thought is the center (myself included) don't want the party in power to be in control for too long or they might start implementing their screwed up agenda and then we'd really be in trouble. In two years time, they usually can't do too much damage.

TangoandCash · Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:54 pm

johns624 wrote:
My thought is the center (myself included) don't want the party in power to be in control for too long or they might start implementing their screwed up agenda and then we'd really be in trouble. In two years time, they usually can't do too much damage.

Similar voting philosophy here--divided government (White House held by one party, House/Senate held by the other), switching every couple elections, is best because the politicking and gridlock means nothing gets done, nothing gets screwed up for we the people, and we can all go on with our lives.

seb146 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:39 pm

johns624 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
You may not have copped on to the pattern, but the constant swing back and forth in Congress is because every couple years the center decides the party in power isn’t getting it done and opts for the other. It’s a race to the bottom at this point.
My thought is the center (myself included) don't want the party in power to be in control for too long or they might start implementing their screwed up agenda and then we'd really be in trouble. In two years time, they usually can't do too much damage.

The problem, however, is Republicans have started passing sweeping and draconian laws to ensure they are in power and no one else. Many of us, myself included, want to see more parties gaining power. We are sick and tired of this two party system. Thanks to Republicans, we are headed to a one-party system, which is the opposite of what many Americans want.

NIKV69 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:00 pm

seb146 wrote:

The problem, however, is Republicans have started passing sweeping and draconian laws to ensure they are in power and no one else. Many of us, myself included, want to see more parties gaining power. We are sick and tired of this two party system. Thanks to Republicans, we are headed to a one-party system, which is the opposite of what many Americans want.

Stop trying to make this a GOP thing. It isn't. The far left is just as bad as the far right. We need a third party in this country but it's sure not just the GOP's fault.

M564038 · Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:18 pm

The far left is not politically represented nationally in the US. The democratic party is centrist and the republican is far right. It is pretty easy to verify this by comparing with the rest of the known planet.

The «both are equally bad» BS couldn’t be more wrong as far as the US is concerned.

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The problem, however, is Republicans have started passing sweeping and draconian laws to ensure they are in power and no one else. Many of us, myself included, want to see more parties gaining power. We are sick and tired of this two party system. Thanks to Republicans, we are headed to a one-party system, which is the opposite of what many Americans want.

Stop trying to make this a GOP thing. It isn't. The far left is just as bad as the far right. We need a third party in this country but it's sure not just the GOP's fault.

FlapOperator · Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:19 pm

M564038 wrote:
The problem is that the right has built and enormous propaganda machine that care not one iota about honesty, facts or truth itself. It’s all about grabbing power at all cost. No honor. No morals.

A working democracy requires some ground rules and common root in reality.

When I think rousing success, I think "evacuation from Kabul."

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