Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
PHLspecial wrote:NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
Yeah he used a handgun to kill three people and injure 7 others. He used a handgun not for protection but used the handgun for a mass shooting.
Elkadad313 wrote:PHLspecial wrote:NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
Yeah he used a handgun to kill three people and injure 7 others. He used a handgun not for protection but used the handgun for a mass shooting.
His father bought it a few days ago and apparently did not secure it.
Newark727 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
So did the Virginia Tech shooter and a number of others. It isn't particularly the style or model of weapon that's the problem. It's a political and cultural environment that proliferates weapons with no questions asked.
ltbewr wrote:A reaction to bullying or social shunning. Rejection by a woman for a date. A relationship gone bad, bad grades. Mental health problems - any of those with access to a gun and access into the building with it and you end up with another mass deadly school shooting.
N626AA wrote:Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.
CaptHadley wrote:So you think this is like the "playing video games make you do it" type of scenario? What happens if I watch countless fishing videos?
CaptHadley wrote:N626AA wrote:Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.
So you think this is like the "playing video games make you do it" type of scenario? What happens if I watch countless fishing videos?
N626AA wrote:Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.
NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
pastors and religious leaders organized two prayer vigils, one at Kensington Church in Lake Orion and the other at LakePoint Community in Oxford, for the mourning survivors. A Mass was organized at St. Joseph, also in Lake Orion.
Kiwirob wrote:NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
About all you can do ispastors and religious leaders organized two prayer vigils, one at Kensington Church in Lake Orion and the other at LakePoint Community in Oxford, for the mourning survivors. A Mass was organized at St. Joseph, also in Lake Orion.
Not that that works either.
Dahlgardo wrote:Before you all get wind up about the gunlaws in the US, then there's this little anology:
I think it is safe to assume that most in here are pro globalization and unrestricted free travel.
But guess what, that way of life has just caused a global pandemic and millions of deaths, and numbers just keep rising.
I'm not saying free travel, guncontrol or whatever is good or bad, but all choices have consequences.
A life lost in a mass shooting is no less worth than one lost to covid.
Aaron747 wrote:There's a lot of swiss cheese in the COVID deaths - each individual's life choices, health, genetics, government competence, healthcare competence, etc. With a mass shooting it is simply one individual's will versus victims being in the wrong place/time. Yes, the loss of a life is equally tragic to anyone experiencing the loss, but this situation is not an analogue to COVID in the manner presented.
Dahlgardo wrote:
It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.
NIKV69 wrote:What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
N626AA wrote:Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.
Virtual737 wrote:Dahlgardo wrote:
It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.
Yet it seems to happen so frequently in the US compared to other nations and some of the bigger holes in the cheese are quite easy to fill.
Dahlgardo wrote:Virtual737 wrote:Dahlgardo wrote:
It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.
Yet it seems to happen so frequently in the US compared to other nations and some of the bigger holes in the cheese are quite easy to fill.
True. I'm certainly not claiming the lack of guncontrol does not play a part, but there are certainly other factors as well.
And again, choices have consequences. If firearms are an intergrated part of the traditional culture in the US, then so be it. Who am I to decide for you.
More guns apparently means more shootings. Should come as no surprise to anyone.
At the same time, I can see the hypocricy where people arguing for guncontrol, also wants globalisation and free travel, and accept the risks of deadly pandemics, as we see unfold today.
That is also a lifestyle or cultural choice that costs many lives.
Kiwirob wrote:I bet a large percentage of people who are pro free are vaccinated, they are doing there best to mitigate the risks, the pro gun 2A folks are against any form of gun control. What’s the bet that the majority of pro gun 2A people are also passionate anti vaccers.
NIKV69 wrote:Kiwirob wrote:I bet a large percentage of people who are pro free are vaccinated, they are doing there best to mitigate the risks, the pro gun 2A folks are against any form of gun control. What’s the bet that the majority of pro gun 2A people are also passionate anti vaccers.
This is such BS. I am pro 2A but I am not against gun control. The problem is people that are against the 2A want all guns removed and that is just not gun control and not going to happen. It's just like this thread, every time there is a shooting it's attack the pro 2A people and we don't want guns. You want gun control? Give us some real legislation.
LCDFlight wrote:I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
bpatus297 wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.
bpatus297 wrote:Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.
Virtual737 wrote:bpatus297 wrote:Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.
You also have the highest incarceration rate of the free world by a country mile. Doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.
LCDFlight wrote:bpatus297 wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.
Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.
N626AA wrote:Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.
Dahlgardo wrote:Before you all get wind up about the gunlaws in the US, then there's this little anology:
I think it is safe to assume that most in here are pro globalization and unrestricted free travel.
But guess what, that way of life has just caused a global pandemic and millions of deaths, and numbers just keep rising.
I'm not saying free travel, guncontrol or whatever is good or bad, but all choices have consequences.
A life lost in a mass shooting is no less worth than one lost to covid.
PHLspecial wrote:I can't wait to hear the same old solutions again, invest in mental health treatment, arm teachers with ccw, and hire armed security to patrol schools. I'm dumbfounded at the latter to two solutions.
I awful for all who are involved. The trauma, shock, reliving through the same nightmare, processing this horrible event. I hope the victims and the families get as much support as they need.
TriJets wrote:I think the question need not be "are incidents like this acceptable" (the answer is clearly no), but what can be done about it? With so many of these school shootings, there are red flags and warnings leading up to the events that are ignored. The Parkland shooter had many interactions with the police and was even referred to the FBI before he committed his attack. It sounds as if this most recent school shooter also posted warnings about an imminent attack on social media. We already know that 15 year-olds are not legally allowed to own a handgun in the United States, and that apparently his father had purchased the gun recently. Why were these red flags not acted upon? Why did these parents allow their very unstable child access to this weapon? Even if law enforcement had identified this kid as a potential future threat, what power do they have to do anything about it?
LCDFlight wrote:I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
StarAC17 wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
The death penalty is the easy way out.
Put him in a supermax for life which is a fate worse than death.
LCDFlight wrote:Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.
I think putting thieves to death is not lawful; and it is plain and obvious that it is absurd and of ill consequence to the commonwealth that a thief and a murderer should be equally punished; for if a robber sees that his danger is the same if he is convicted of theft as if he were guilty of murder, this will naturally incite him to kill the person whom otherwise he would only have robbed; since, if the punishment is the same, there is more security, and less danger of discovery, when he that can best make it is put out of the way; so that terrifying thieves too much provokes them to cruelty.
johns624 wrote:Just a few thoughts...
He shoots and kills several people and then peacefully surrenders and knows enough to lawyer-up. I wonder if in his warped mind, he thinks that he'll be tried as a juvenile? Sorry, ain't gonna happen, bro.
His father has a lot to answer for. Did he buy the gun and just not secure it or did he buy it for his son? Either way, he's on the hook for some charges.
I've never understood the thinking in situations like this. "I'm a wimp and get picked on, so I'm going to get a gun and kill my tormentors. Then I'll be thrown in prison, where there are a thousand times the number of tormentors, but I won't have my gun".
I wonder if one or two of the victims were his targets and the rest collateral damage or if he was just shooting any and every one.
cskok8 wrote:How many need to die or wounded to call it a mass shooting?
SESGDL wrote:I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.
Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.
Jeremy
TriJets wrote:SESGDL wrote:I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.
Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.
Jeremy
It really isn't that cut and dry. One tragedy several states away should not mean that people who had nothing to do with it forfeit their ability to protect themselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes (or longer) away. I've had personal experience with this....I was at work and my wife was home alone when an intruder broke into our house. She was armed and screamed that she had a gun and the intruder fled. Had he not fled, she would have shot him and I would have been 100% OK with that. Time from 911 call to first officer showing up at our door was slightly over 15 minutes-this is in a mixed urban/suburban area. That's a long time for her to be alone without protection. So, as much as I feel for the families in Michigan, I'm always going to be against any kind of gun control that makes it harder to law-abiding citizens to own firearms.
LCDFlight wrote:bpatus297 wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.
Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.
TriJets wrote:SESGDL wrote:I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.
Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.
Jeremy
It really isn't that cut and dry. One tragedy several states away should not mean that people who had nothing to do with it forfeit their ability to protect themselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes (or longer) away. I've had personal experience with this....I was at work and my wife was home alone when an intruder broke into our house. She was armed and screamed that she had a gun and the intruder fled. Had he not fled, she would have shot him and I would have been 100% OK with that. Time from 911 call to first officer showing up at our door was slightly over 15 minutes-this is in a mixed urban/suburban area. That's a long time for her to be alone without protection. So, as much as I feel for the families in Michigan, I'm always going to be against any kind of gun control that makes it harder to law-abiding citizens to own firearms.