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CaptHadley
Topic Author
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Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:37 am

I’m surprised this hasn’t been discussed yet. I know it’s a regular occurrence and all but I’m interested in the pro 2A contingents thoughts on this latest mass school shooting. Or it’s a wasted thread because absolutely nothing will be done about it.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 810588002/
 
NIKV69
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:05 am

What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2701
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:41 am

NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.


So did the Virginia Tech shooter and a number of others. It isn't particularly the style or model of weapon that's the problem. It's a political and cultural environment that proliferates weapons with no questions asked.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1054
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:44 am

NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.

Yeah he used a handgun to kill three people and injure 7 others. He used a handgun not for protection but used the handgun for a mass shooting.
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 217
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:50 am

PHLspecial wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.

Yeah he used a handgun to kill three people and injure 7 others. He used a handgun not for protection but used the handgun for a mass shooting.

His father bought it a few days ago and apparently did not secure it.
 
cskok8
Posts: 130
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:53 am

How many need to die or wounded to call it a mass shooting?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1054
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:54 am

I can't wait to hear the same old solutions again, invest in mental health treatment, arm teachers with ccw, and hire armed security to patrol schools. I'm dumbfounded at the latter to two solutions.

I awful for all who are involved. The trauma, shock, reliving through the same nightmare, processing this horrible event. I hope the victims and the families get as much support as they need.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:57 am

I'm wrenched for the kids and parents impacted by this, and so very thankful at how extremely rare these things are in my country that the last "random" mass shooting occurred in 1995.

But to the US and its response to gun violence, a whole lot of useless thoughts and prayers. It really is a matter of put up or shut up if noone is willing to compromise on this issue.

Isn't there a generic "Latest US mass shooting" generic thread here somehwere, or is that only allowed on forums with fewer members from the US?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1054
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:59 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.

Yeah he used a handgun to kill three people and injure 7 others. He used a handgun not for protection but used the handgun for a mass shooting.

His father bought it a few days ago and apparently did not secure it.

Is that true? Anyways point is he still brought a firearm with intend to harm and did harm. The shooter is full responsible
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14756
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:00 am

Newark727 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.


So did the Virginia Tech shooter and a number of others. It isn't particularly the style or model of weapon that's the problem. It's a political and cultural environment that proliferates weapons with no questions asked.


Funny you bring up Virginia tech. I sure hope this isn't another case that could include bullying. So far a 15 year old kid comes out of a bathroom, shoots and kills 3 people and wounds others then puts his hands up and surrenders as soon as police arrive? I would like more info.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15932
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:18 am

A reaction to bullying or social shunning. Rejection by a woman for a date. A relationship gone bad, bad grades. Mental health problems - any of those with access to a gun and access into the building with it and you end up with another mass deadly school shooting.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:46 am

ltbewr wrote:
A reaction to bullying or social shunning. Rejection by a woman for a date. A relationship gone bad, bad grades. Mental health problems - any of those with access to a gun and access into the building with it and you end up with another mass deadly school shooting.


The Santa Barbara affluenza shooter a few years ago was the same deal - video after video in his BMW griping about how other men got all the girls and he would make happy couples pay. Never realized he wasn’t attracting women because he was a creep.
 
N626AA
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:02 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:40 am

Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.
 
CaptHadley
Topic Author
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:48 am

N626AA wrote:
Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.


So you think this is like the "playing video games make you do it" type of scenario? What happens if I watch countless fishing videos?
 
N626AA
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:02 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:04 am

CaptHadley wrote:
So you think this is like the "playing video games make you do it" type of scenario? What happens if I watch countless fishing videos?


You may or may not go fishing? Case by case basis. I'm not blaming the media entirely for every shooting or this one in particular but it could be one of several motives.
Last edited by N626AA on Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:05 am

CaptHadley wrote:
N626AA wrote:
Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.


So you think this is like the "playing video games make you do it" type of scenario? What happens if I watch countless fishing videos?


Seriously. I watched ‘Ghostbusters’ I and II countless times as a kid, made my own proton pack prop out of household goods for Halloween repeatedly...but alas never became a paranormal investigator. :boggled:
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:44 am

N626AA wrote:
Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.

I can't imagine if this was a kid of a different color that we would be rational here for why school shooting occur
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:58 am

NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.


About all you can do is

pastors and religious leaders organized two prayer vigils, one at Kensington Church in Lake Orion and the other at LakePoint Community in Oxford, for the mourning survivors. A Mass was organized at St. Joseph, also in Lake Orion.


Not that that works either.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:16 am

Kiwirob wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.


About all you can do is

pastors and religious leaders organized two prayer vigils, one at Kensington Church in Lake Orion and the other at LakePoint Community in Oxford, for the mourning survivors. A Mass was organized at St. Joseph, also in Lake Orion.


Not that that works either.


Yup - thoughts and prayers - the avatar for thinking things will improve by doing nothing.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:09 am

Before you all get wind up about the gunlaws in the US, then there's this little anology:

I think it is safe to assume that most in here are pro globalization and unrestricted free travel.
But guess what, that way of life has just caused a global pandemic and millions of deaths, and numbers just keep rising.

I'm not saying free travel, guncontrol or whatever is good or bad, but all choices have consequences.

A life lost in a mass shooting is no less worth than one lost to covid.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:14 am

Dahlgardo wrote:
Before you all get wind up about the gunlaws in the US, then there's this little anology:

I think it is safe to assume that most in here are pro globalization and unrestricted free travel.
But guess what, that way of life has just caused a global pandemic and millions of deaths, and numbers just keep rising.

I'm not saying free travel, guncontrol or whatever is good or bad, but all choices have consequences.

A life lost in a mass shooting is no less worth than one lost to covid.


The degree of preventability is the difference. There's a lot of swiss cheese in the COVID deaths - each individual's life choices, health, genetics, government competence, healthcare competence, etc. With a mass shooting it is simply one individual's will versus victims being in the wrong place/time. Yes, the loss of a life is equally tragic to anyone experiencing the loss, but this situation is not an analogue to COVID in the manner presented.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:24 am

Aaron747 wrote:
There's a lot of swiss cheese in the COVID deaths - each individual's life choices, health, genetics, government competence, healthcare competence, etc. With a mass shooting it is simply one individual's will versus victims being in the wrong place/time. Yes, the loss of a life is equally tragic to anyone experiencing the loss, but this situation is not an analogue to COVID in the manner presented.


I disagree,

You make mass shootings sound like a simple trivial thing.
But a person that is able to do commit such a thing, could also be caused by "each individual's life choices, (mental)health, genetics, government competence, healthcare competence,"

It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1302
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:21 am

Dahlgardo wrote:

It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.


Yet it seems to happen so frequently in the US compared to other nations and some of the bigger holes in the cheese are quite easy to fill.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:43 am

NIKV69 wrote:
What do you want to do? You can't attack rifles he used a handgun.


This is your first comment? Three kids dead and eight injured and this is your first comment. :banghead:

The rest of the World just shakes its head in disbelief.

N626AA wrote:
Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.


Yeah, it's all the media's fault for reporting the news. :sarcastic:
 
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Dahlgardo
Posts: 491
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:06 am

Virtual737 wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.


Yet it seems to happen so frequently in the US compared to other nations and some of the bigger holes in the cheese are quite easy to fill.


True. I'm certainly not claiming the lack of guncontrol does not play a part, but there are certainly other factors as well.
And again, choices have consequences. If firearms are an intergrated part of the traditional culture in the US, then so be it. Who am I to decide for you.
More guns apparently means more shootings. Should come as no surprise to anyone.

At the same time, I can see the hypocricy where people arguing for guncontrol, also wants globalisation and free travel, and accept the risks of deadly pandemics, as we see unfold today.
That is also a lifestyle or cultural choice that costs many lives.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:34 am

Dahlgardo wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

It also takes a lot of swiss cheese to end up with a mass shooting.


Yet it seems to happen so frequently in the US compared to other nations and some of the bigger holes in the cheese are quite easy to fill.


True. I'm certainly not claiming the lack of guncontrol does not play a part, but there are certainly other factors as well.
And again, choices have consequences. If firearms are an intergrated part of the traditional culture in the US, then so be it. Who am I to decide for you.
More guns apparently means more shootings. Should come as no surprise to anyone.

At the same time, I can see the hypocricy where people arguing for guncontrol, also wants globalisation and free travel, and accept the risks of deadly pandemics, as we see unfold today.
That is also a lifestyle or cultural choice that costs many lives.


I bet a large percentage of people who are pro free are vaccinated, they are doing there best to mitigate the risks, the pro gun 2A folks are against any form of gun control. What’s the bet that the majority of pro gun 2A people are also passionate anti vaccers.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:39 pm

I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.
 
TriJets
Posts: 129
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:03 pm

I think the question need not be "are incidents like this acceptable" (the answer is clearly no), but what can be done about it? With so many of these school shootings, there are red flags and warnings leading up to the events that are ignored. The Parkland shooter had many interactions with the police and was even referred to the FBI before he committed his attack. It sounds as if this most recent school shooter also posted warnings about an imminent attack on social media. We already know that 15 year-olds are not legally allowed to own a handgun in the United States, and that apparently his father had purchased the gun recently. Why were these red flags not acted upon? Why did these parents allow their very unstable child access to this weapon? Even if law enforcement had identified this kid as a potential future threat, what power do they have to do anything about it?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:05 pm

My condolences to the victims and their families and friends.

My worst to the shooter , his motives, and his enablers.
 
wingman
Posts: 4218
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:07 pm

Too bad pops didn’t buy an assault rifle. I might’ve given a crap this morning. Instead, I took one and it was both satisfying and conclusive. No debate whatsoever. I mean let’s be honest at this point, 3 dead and 8 wounded will pass like a weak fart in this country. NEXT!
 
NIKV69
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:44 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
I bet a large percentage of people who are pro free are vaccinated, they are doing there best to mitigate the risks, the pro gun 2A folks are against any form of gun control. What’s the bet that the majority of pro gun 2A people are also passionate anti vaccers.


This is such BS. I am pro 2A but I am not against gun control. The problem is people that are against the 2A want all guns removed and that is just not gun control and not going to happen. It's just like this thread, every time there is a shooting it's attack the pro 2A people and we don't want guns. You want gun control? Give us some real legislation.
 
TriJets
Posts: 129
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:20 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
I bet a large percentage of people who are pro free are vaccinated, they are doing there best to mitigate the risks, the pro gun 2A folks are against any form of gun control. What’s the bet that the majority of pro gun 2A people are also passionate anti vaccers.


This is such BS. I am pro 2A but I am not against gun control. The problem is people that are against the 2A want all guns removed and that is just not gun control and not going to happen. It's just like this thread, every time there is a shooting it's attack the pro 2A people and we don't want guns. You want gun control? Give us some real legislation.


I am also pro 2A but I am in favor of some measures that could reduce frequency of these incidents. For example, how about a law stating that if you have children under 18 living with you, you must have your firearms locked and secured so that they cannot be accessed by juveniles without your permission? Pretty difficult to enforce as the police can't go door to door performing inspections, but the parents would know that if their weapons were used in a crime or even involved in an accident because their kid got ahold of them, they would be looking at some serious prison time. That might do a lot to motivate parents to lock their guns up.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:28 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.


Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1470
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:31 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.


Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.


Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.
Last edited by LCDFlight on Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1302
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:31 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.


You also have the highest incarceration rate of the free world by a country mile. Doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:34 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.


You also have the highest incarceration rate of the free world by a country mile. Doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent.


I'm talking about doing whatever the poster wanted to do by hanging the body for others to see. We are not the drug cartels, this shouldn't even be a though in anyone's mind.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:37 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.


Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.


Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.


I'm not arguing that prison isn't much of a deterrent or punishment and more. We should punish, not terrify criminals. .
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4283
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:39 pm

I will say that those in this school were sharp kids and this shooter did say he was a sheriff but used the word "Bro" after. Some of the kids heard the "Bro" and knew if was a trap and stayed put.

N626AA wrote:
Well when the drive-by media plasters these shootings across news headlines for days on end, it's no wonder so many kids might have the idea of it in their head.


This should be breaking news and as its a tragedy even if it happens basically daily in the United States.
In fact they should show the carnage on the 6pm news with a disclaimer to show what actually happens to the human body when shot and show the average joe that what happens in an action movie is not what happens in reality.

Dahlgardo wrote:
Before you all get wind up about the gunlaws in the US, then there's this little anology:

I think it is safe to assume that most in here are pro globalization and unrestricted free travel.
But guess what, that way of life has just caused a global pandemic and millions of deaths, and numbers just keep rising.

I'm not saying free travel, guncontrol or whatever is good or bad, but all choices have consequences.

A life lost in a mass shooting is no less worth than one lost to covid.


The difference is that a virus is a natural biological thing. A handgun serves to do one thing and that is to kill.

In 1918 we didn't exactly have the level of travel we have today and the Spanish flu got absolutely everyone across the planet.
The black plague got all across Europe as Asia in the 14th century.

PHLspecial wrote:
I can't wait to hear the same old solutions again, invest in mental health treatment, arm teachers with ccw, and hire armed security to patrol schools. I'm dumbfounded at the latter to two solutions.

I awful for all who are involved. The trauma, shock, reliving through the same nightmare, processing this horrible event. I hope the victims and the families get as much support as they need.


There are many solutions.

Everyone who buys a gun needs to go through a background check that determines the mental health history of a prospective buyer, including their history of aggressive behavior. Also any prospective gun buyer needs to provide 3 character references whom at least two are immediate family and those people conducting the background check are allowed to ask if the prospective gun buyer provided any incentive to answer positively or put the character references under duress to answer positively.

TriJets wrote:
I think the question need not be "are incidents like this acceptable" (the answer is clearly no), but what can be done about it? With so many of these school shootings, there are red flags and warnings leading up to the events that are ignored. The Parkland shooter had many interactions with the police and was even referred to the FBI before he committed his attack. It sounds as if this most recent school shooter also posted warnings about an imminent attack on social media. We already know that 15 year-olds are not legally allowed to own a handgun in the United States, and that apparently his father had purchased the gun recently. Why were these red flags not acted upon? Why did these parents allow their very unstable child access to this weapon? Even if law enforcement had identified this kid as a potential future threat, what power do they have to do anything about it?


Anyone close to the shooter probably knew he wasn't 100% right in the head, thus why when you buy a gun you should provide character references.

LCDFlight wrote:
I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.


The death penalty is the easy way out.
Put him in a supermax for life which is a fate worse than death.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1470
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:43 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.


The death penalty is the easy way out.
Put him in a supermax for life which is a fate worse than death.


You're right, but a teenage boy does not know that.

We need to give these boys who are considering crimes the worst nightmares they have ever had.

I believe the way to do that is lawful death penalty with enhancements, especially humiliation.

It's not really me talking, I think this is genuinely what scares young males. Prison does not. They are too dumb to be afraid of prison. Although you are right that life in prison is the ultimate punishment worse than death, boys do not understand it.
Last edited by LCDFlight on Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2701
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:43 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.


A word of caution from the 16th century:

I think putting thieves to death is not lawful; and it is plain and obvious that it is absurd and of ill consequence to the commonwealth that a thief and a murderer should be equally punished; for if a robber sees that his danger is the same if he is convicted of theft as if he were guilty of murder, this will naturally incite him to kill the person whom otherwise he would only have robbed; since, if the punishment is the same, there is more security, and less danger of discovery, when he that can best make it is put out of the way; so that terrifying thieves too much provokes them to cruelty.


Escalating the "terror" of the justice system creates perverse incentives and unintended consequences.
 
johns624
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Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:58 pm

Just a few thoughts...
He shoots and kills several people and then peacefully surrenders and knows enough to lawyer-up. I wonder if in his warped mind, he thinks that he'll be tried as a juvenile? Sorry, ain't gonna happen, bro.
His father has a lot to answer for. Did he buy the gun and just not secure it or did he buy it for his son? Either way, he's on the hook for some charges.
I've never understood the thinking in situations like this. "I'm a wimp and get picked on, so I'm going to get a gun and kill my tormentors. Then I'll be thrown in prison, where there are a thousand times the number of tormentors, but I won't have my gun".
I wonder if one or two of the victims were his targets and the rest collateral damage or if he was just shooting any and every one.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:06 pm

johns624 wrote:
Just a few thoughts...
He shoots and kills several people and then peacefully surrenders and knows enough to lawyer-up. I wonder if in his warped mind, he thinks that he'll be tried as a juvenile? Sorry, ain't gonna happen, bro.
His father has a lot to answer for. Did he buy the gun and just not secure it or did he buy it for his son? Either way, he's on the hook for some charges.
I've never understood the thinking in situations like this. "I'm a wimp and get picked on, so I'm going to get a gun and kill my tormentors. Then I'll be thrown in prison, where there are a thousand times the number of tormentors, but I won't have my gun".
I wonder if one or two of the victims were his targets and the rest collateral damage or if he was just shooting any and every one.


It's about winning the 15-year old fight, in 15 year-old terms. We can make sure he loses in terms a 15-year old would understand. I hope we don't let him "win." That's very dangerous, and inspires others.
 
flybaurlax
Posts: 659
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:34 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:33 pm

Queue the "thoughts and prayers." Nothing changes. If nothing happend after Sandy Hook, do you really think something will change now? Just another day in the USA. :(.
 
System07
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:59 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:47 pm

cskok8 wrote:
How many need to die or wounded to call it a mass shooting?


4. And the fourth child died in the hospital while in critical care, just today.

I’m generally pro 2A and both sides of my family hunt etc but something has to give.

This one hits too close to home. I live about an hour away as my wife and I went to Oxford for her cousin’s wedding a couple years ago. Her cousin, wife, and one year old son live in Oxford
 
SESGDL
Posts: 3067
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:58 pm

I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.

Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.

Jeremy
 
TriJets
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:13 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:36 pm

SESGDL wrote:
I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.

Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.

Jeremy


It really isn't that cut and dry. One tragedy several states away should not mean that people who had nothing to do with it forfeit their ability to protect themselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes (or longer) away. I've had personal experience with this....I was at work and my wife was home alone when an intruder broke into our house. She was armed and screamed that she had a gun and the intruder fled. Had he not fled, she would have shot him and I would have been 100% OK with that. Time from 911 call to first officer showing up at our door was slightly over 15 minutes-this is in a mixed urban/suburban area. That's a long time for her to be alone without protection. So, as much as I feel for the families in Michigan, I'm always going to be against any kind of gun control that makes it harder to law-abiding citizens to own firearms.
 
Elkadad313
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:28 pm

The kid's name is Ethan Crumbley. He and his parents met with teachers only three hours before to discuss his 'behavior' before he murdered four classmates. Apparently, the meeting did not go well. :(
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2170
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:52 pm

TriJets wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.

Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.

Jeremy


It really isn't that cut and dry. One tragedy several states away should not mean that people who had nothing to do with it forfeit their ability to protect themselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes (or longer) away. I've had personal experience with this....I was at work and my wife was home alone when an intruder broke into our house. She was armed and screamed that she had a gun and the intruder fled. Had he not fled, she would have shot him and I would have been 100% OK with that. Time from 911 call to first officer showing up at our door was slightly over 15 minutes-this is in a mixed urban/suburban area. That's a long time for her to be alone without protection. So, as much as I feel for the families in Michigan, I'm always going to be against any kind of gun control that makes it harder to law-abiding citizens to own firearms.


To someone outside the USA (but with family in the US) this is good example of the cognitive dissonance around gun control measures.

Is there any reputable evidence around the use of guns for self defence in the US? I assume the number is very high and the US is an extremely dangerous place, given that this seems to be a ket part of the ongoing argument aginst reducing the use of guns in the US.

To those of us outside the US, the US gun homicide rate and number of mass shootings is unfathomably high.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8956
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:04 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
I hope they interrogate the stupid boy, try him as an adult, sentence him to death and display the body in a humiliating way. Every schoolboy should know that that is what happens to you when you do a school shooting. You die embarrassingly, and the humiliation lasts long after you’re dead. Just my thoughts on what might influence them.


Umm, except we have the rule of law. Most of what you said to do is illegal in the US, thank goodness.


Our laws coddle violent criminals far too much. Our goal should be to terrify all violent criminals into nonviolence. That is how civilization is created.


Agreed, try both the child AND the parents who created this monster and condoned the behavior and then failed to control the child and the firearm. BTW, I’m in favor of swiftly administered capital punishment. One appeal, you were fairly tried, all possible evidence presented including DNA, then it’s the gallows.

I would think convicting the parents would have a sobering effect on the idiots raising kids.
 
CaptHadley
Topic Author
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Re: Hey, another mass school shooting.

Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:07 pm

TriJets wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
I wish pro-gun Americans would just come out and say it, "The countless lives lost each year to gun violence are an acceptable cost for being able to own and operate guns in the way that America tolerates them." In the same way vehicle deaths are the cost of being able to conveniently drive a car. It's sad, but they're not going to give up their guns under any circumstances, so why not stop making a big deal of it when people are senselessly gunned down like they are in the US on a regular basis.

Why don't they stop acting like they care about all the innocent lives lost to guns, or at least admit they don't care as much as they would not being able to own a gun. Nothing's going to change, so sadly we must just accept it and move on. That's how America views life against the "right' to own a gun.

Jeremy


It really isn't that cut and dry. One tragedy several states away should not mean that people who had nothing to do with it forfeit their ability to protect themselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes (or longer) away. I've had personal experience with this....I was at work and my wife was home alone when an intruder broke into our house. She was armed and screamed that she had a gun and the intruder fled. Had he not fled, she would have shot him and I would have been 100% OK with that. Time from 911 call to first officer showing up at our door was slightly over 15 minutes-this is in a mixed urban/suburban area. That's a long time for her to be alone without protection. So, as much as I feel for the families in Michigan, I'm always going to be against any kind of gun control that makes it harder to law-abiding citizens to own firearms.


How do you know she would have shot him? What would have happened if there was more than one intruder? What happens if she shoots and misses, the bullet goes thru the window and strikes a child riding their bike? What if the intruders are armed?

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