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Aaron747
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Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:27 am

Pretty brazen case of police misconduct here - a shoplifting suspect in a scooter was fatally shot nine times in the back while his back was turned to the officer and was attempting to enter a Lowe’s. The suspect had apparently brandished a knife when confronted earlier by an employee.

The cop’s attorney is claiming he had ‘no non-lethal options’ - against a guy in a wheelchair. Really?

https://amp.azcentral.com/amp/8815159002

All this over a toolbox. The suspect lost his life for stealing one item, and the cop lost his job for excessive force.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:41 am

The former officer may want a new defense lawyer. This will not play well at all. especially with the videos I have seen.

"Tucson attorney Mike Storie, who is representing Remington, said in a statement that his client “had no non-lethal options."

"He did have a Taser, but in his mind, he couldn’t use it because he didn’t feel he had the proper spread to deploy it, with the wheelchair between him and Richards,” Storie said."


From starter article.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:36 am

The Lowe's security video at the garden center check-out had an employee right at the exit. Could an argument be made that the suspect could have attacked the employee with said knife?

Was shooting the suspect too close then to the Lowe's employee?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:21 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
The Lowe's security video at the garden center check-out had an employee right at the exit. Could an argument be made that the suspect could have attacked the employee with said knife?

Was shooting the suspect too close then to the Lowe's employee?


What's the top speed of a mobility cart on an incline? Might be a factor to consider.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:24 am

Aaron747 wrote:

What's the top speed of a mobility cart on an incline? Might be a factor to consider.


How long since the officer visited Krispy Kreme might be too unfortunately.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:34 am

I don't like the shooting. Don't like the employee too close to the action. I think that was a little to quick. Try no lethal first. If they don't work you have more of an argument.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:22 am

NIKV69 wrote:
I don't like the shooting. Don't like the employee too close to the action. I think that was a little to quick. Try no lethal first. If they don't work you have more of an argument.


Agree, and I don’t see how sidearms are necessary here at all - the alleged perp is not ambulatory and logically it’s a matter of coming from behind and flipping him from the scooter if he doesn’t stop when ordered. Both shoplifting and brandishing a knife are usually misdemeanors.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:22 am

Virtual737 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

What's the top speed of a mobility cart on an incline? Might be a factor to consider.


How long since the officer visited Krispy Kreme might be too unfortunately.


Do you know the background of the history of the whole cops and donuts thing?
Last edited by CaptHadley on Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:23 am

Aaron747 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
The Lowe's security video at the garden center check-out had an employee right at the exit. Could an argument be made that the suspect could have attacked the employee with said knife?

Was shooting the suspect too close then to the Lowe's employee?


What's the top speed of a mobility cart on an incline? Might be a factor to consider.


Not much if you use the tried and true method of "stick thru spokes"
 
Redd
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:51 am

Watched the video, this is insane. I don't think that in ANY COUNTRY aside from the USA, or maybe Canada, a police officer would even think of pulling out a weapon in this case. This guy was on a mobility scooter, FFS. It's not like he was going to get away, or could put up a fight. This is murder. They could have stopped the guy by placing a small box in front of him.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:08 am

Aaron747 wrote:
All this over a toolbox. The suspect lost his life for stealing one item, and the cop lost his job for excessive force.


A shooting over just shoplifting will always be disproportional violence, no matter how you put it. The offence is in no way related to the level of violence here. Hopefully, this ex-cop will be prosecuted as well, would be good to see this case in front of a judge.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:19 am

Dutchy wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
All this over a toolbox. The suspect lost his life for stealing one item, and the cop lost his job for excessive force.


A shooting over just shoplifting will always be disproportional violence, no matter how you put it. The offence is in no way related to the level of violence here. Hopefully, this ex-cop will be prosecuted as well, would be good to see this case in front of a judge.


If Mr. Richards has any family, it's fairly likely taxpayers will end up on the hook in a wrongful death suit.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:16 pm

Redd wrote:
Watched the video, this is insane. I don't think that in ANY COUNTRY aside from the USA, or maybe Canada, a police officer would even think of pulling out a weapon in this case. This guy was on a mobility scooter, FFS. It's not like he was going to get away, or could put up a fight. This is murder. They could have stopped the guy by placing a small box in front of him.


It's completely nuts, it makes no sense when you can find multiple videos of people shoplifting in California, walking out of the stores past security with bin liners full of crap and nobody lifts a finger to stop them.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:59 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Redd wrote:
Watched the video, this is insane. I don't think that in ANY COUNTRY aside from the USA, or maybe Canada, a police officer would even think of pulling out a weapon in this case. This guy was on a mobility scooter, FFS. It's not like he was going to get away, or could put up a fight. This is murder. They could have stopped the guy by placing a small box in front of him.


It's completely nuts, it makes no sense when you can find multiple videos of people shoplifting in California, walking out of the stores past security with bin liners full of crap and nobody lifts a finger to stop them.


That's because those jurisdictions have decided to spend limited police resources on violent crime instead of petty misdeameanors.
 
johns624
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:54 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
The Lowe's security video at the garden center check-out had an employee right at the exit. Could an argument be made that the suspect could have attacked the employee with said knife?

Was shooting the suspect too close then to the Lowe's employee?


What's the top speed of a mobility cart on an incline? Might be a factor to consider.


Not much if you use the tried and true method of "stick thru spokes"
It doesn't have spokes. Pepper spray to the face would've done the trick.
 
dmg626
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:59 pm

Store won’t have to worry about anymore shoplifters for a while
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:03 pm

johns624 wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

What's the top speed of a mobility cart on an incline? Might be a factor to consider.


Not much if you use the tried and true method of "stick thru spokes"
It doesn't have spokes. Pepper spray to the face would've done the trick.


The cop could also have punched him in the head. 9 rounds to the back was a tad excessive.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:04 pm

dmg626 wrote:
Store won’t have to worry about anymore shoplifters for a while


That makes no sense logically - the cop who killed the shoplifter is kaput. :sarcastic:
 
johns624
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:17 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
johns624 wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

Not much if you use the tried and true method of "stick thru spokes"
It doesn't have spokes. Pepper spray to the face would've done the trick.


The cop could also have punched him in the head. 9 rounds to the back was a tad excessive.
It seems to be the fad among cops in Arizona. Remember the video of the Mesa cop shooting the unarmed guy crawling down the hotel hallway? That was Arizona, too. I guess they weren't taught that sometimes physical force is the best option.
 
Redd
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:59 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

It's completely nuts, it makes no sense when you can find multiple videos of people shoplifting in California, walking out of the stores past security with bin liners full of crap and nobody lifts a finger to stop them.



Yeah, I've seen that. Where is the Police in those situations, right? And here you have some handicapped old man, probably mentally ill and he gets popped for a tool box, literally posing zero threat to two armed police officers. Beyond crazy.

Aaron747 wrote:

That's because those jurisdictions have decided to spend limited police resources on violent crime instead of petty misdeameanors.


70 gangsters storming a store and carrying out its goods is hardly a petty misdemeanor. It's organized crime that poses a significant threat to the public. I have no problem with cops doing what it takes to stop those people. Letting them loot sends a message to those gutter rats that they can do what ever they like, which will only embolden them and other criminals, and without question leading to more serious and violent crime. There has to be rule of law. Looking from the outside, it looks like the USA, especially the blue states are tearing themselves apart at the seams.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:31 pm

Redd wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

It's completely nuts, it makes no sense when you can find multiple videos of people shoplifting in California, walking out of the stores past security with bin liners full of crap and nobody lifts a finger to stop them.



Yeah, I've seen that. Where is the Police in those situations, right? And here you have some handicapped old man, probably mentally ill and he gets popped for a tool box, literally posing zero threat to two armed police officers. Beyond crazy.

Aaron747 wrote:

That's because those jurisdictions have decided to spend limited police resources on violent crime instead of petty misdeameanors.


70 gangsters storming a store and carrying out its goods is hardly a petty misdemeanor. It's organized crime that poses a significant threat to the public. I have no problem with cops doing what it takes to stop those people. Letting them loot sends a message to those gutter rats that they can do what ever they like, which will only embolden them and other criminals, and without question leading to more serious and violent crime. There has to be rule of law. Looking from the outside, it looks like the USA, especially the blue states are tearing themselves apart at the seams.


You seem to have stories crossed - the reference to people walking past security is with neighborhood drugstores like Walgreens, repeatedly shoplifted by homeless individuals who live nearby. The Apple and Vuitton stores ransacked by gangsters is completely different - the police response has been to ban vehicles from parking onstreet in the vicinity and double their presence. A neighborhood retail association praised SFPD's response.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2021/ ... zen-spree/

Whatever news you are consuming on this topic is providing zero context. I suggest checking out local news from the affected area.
 
ItnStln
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:51 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
All this over a toolbox. The suspect lost his life for stealing one item, and the cop lost his job for excessive force.


A shooting over just shoplifting will always be disproportional violence, no matter how you put it. The offence is in no way related to the level of violence here. Hopefully, this ex-cop will be prosecuted as well, would be good to see this case in front of a judge.

You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things, it's called armed robbery.
Last edited by ItnStln on Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ItnStln
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:53 pm

johns624 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It doesn't have spokes. Pepper spray to the face would've done the trick.


The cop could also have punched him in the head. 9 rounds to the back was a tad excessive.
It seems to be the fad among cops in Arizona. Remember the video of the Mesa cop shooting the unarmed guy crawling down the hotel hallway? That was Arizona, too. I guess they weren't taught that sometimes physical force is the best option.

If that's the video where the guy reached behind his back the cop was justified in shooting him.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:54 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
All this over a toolbox. The suspect lost his life for stealing one item, and the cop lost his job for excessive force.


A shooting over just shoplifting will always be disproportional violence, no matter how you put it. The offence is in no way related to the level of violence here. Hopefully, this ex-cop will be prosecuted as well, would be good to see this case in front of a judge.

You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things.


You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.
 
ItnStln
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

A shooting over just shoplifting will always be disproportional violence, no matter how you put it. The offence is in no way related to the level of violence here. Hopefully, this ex-cop will be prosecuted as well, would be good to see this case in front of a judge.

You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things.


You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.

Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:03 pm

ItnStln wrote:
If that's the video where the guy reached behind his back the cop was justified in shooting him.


You mean the video where the kid reached down to pull up his pants because the cops were making him crawl toward them?

ItnStln wrote:
You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things, it's called armed robbery.


"Having a weapon" does not automatically mean a person should be killed. Committing armed robbery does not mean a person should automatically be killed.

Cops HAVE to use good judgment. If they can't, they have absolutely no business being cops.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:07 pm

ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things.


You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.

Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.



You never watched the video did you?
 
ItnStln
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:08 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
If that's the video where the guy reached behind his back the cop was justified in shooting him.


You mean the video where the kid reached down to pull up his pants because the cops were making him crawl toward them?

One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand why reaching behind your back infront of a cop, especially a cop with a gun pointed at you, is a bad idea.

vikkyvik wrote:
Having a weapon" does not automatically mean a person should be killed. Committing armed robbery does not mean a person should automatically be killed.

Cops HAVE to use good judgment. If they can't, they have absolutely no business being cops.

The cop did use judgement. The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!
 
ItnStln
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:

You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.

Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.



You never watched the video did you?

I did, so lets recap: The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:15 pm

ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.



You never watched the video did you?

I did, so lets recap: The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!



You missed the slow sped walk/crawl across the parking lot, where the cop never shot, and never attempted to get into a better position to use his taser.

So I am going to trust the judgement of the police chief that fired the cop immediately, and the video evidence.
 
bpatus297
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

A shooting over just shoplifting will always be disproportional violence, no matter how you put it. The offence is in no way related to the level of violence here. Hopefully, this ex-cop will be prosecuted as well, would be good to see this case in front of a judge.

You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things.


You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.


I know its semantics, but they didn't fire him yet, they initiated the process to fire him.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:34 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
johns624 wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

Not much if you use the tried and true method of "stick thru spokes"
It doesn't have spokes. Pepper spray to the face would've done the trick.


The cop could also have punched him in the head. 9 rounds to the back was a tad excessive.


I agree shooting was a tad quick but had a knife so I am not getting close to him. I would have tased him and if that didn't work pumped him with bean bags.
 
johns624
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:39 pm

ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.



You never watched the video did you?

I did, so lets recap: The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!

Let's have a real recap. It was shoplifting, not armed robbery. He was "fleeing" on a scooter and nobody was in fear of imminent great bodily harm or death. Therefore, no reason to shoot.
 
johns624
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:42 pm

ItnStln wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
If that's the video where the guy reached behind his back the cop was justified in shooting him.


You mean the video where the kid reached down to pull up his pants because the cops were making him crawl toward them?

One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand why reaching behind your back infront of a cop, especially a cop with a gun pointed at you, is a bad idea.

One doesn't have to have a high IQ (but it helps) to understand that you can't "reach behind your back" when you are on your hands and knees. Also, with another officer on the scene, the cop should've just had the guy stay where he was and covered him while the second cop moved in to cuff him.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:48 pm

ItnStln wrote:
One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand why reaching behind your back infront of a cop, especially a cop with a gun pointed at you, is a bad idea.


One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand why someone facing 5 cops, all pointing guns at you, screaming at you, making you crawl toward them, may not make rational decisions.

One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand why someone who is being forced to crawl, may by sheer subconscious instinct, reach down to pull up his pants if they are slipping down.

One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand that the cop(s) in that situation made the victim do completely unnecessary things, like crawl toward them, that just made the situation worse.

ItnStln wrote:
The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!


He was fleeing so fast, only bullets could catch up to him! :sarcastic:
 
alfa164
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:17 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.


No, it's not. Armed Robbery require use of a weapon, directly towards a victim, in an attempt to deprive that individual something of value. "Shoplifting" cases, in most jurisdictions, aren't even covered by robbery statutes. Theft is merely attempting to take a person's property with the intent of depriving them of that property. Robbery specifically requires taking property in the presence of a specific, identifiable person, and the use of violence in taking that property.

Hopefully, you study up on the law before making false and misleading statements.


ItnStln wrote:
One doesn't need to have a high IQ to understand why reaching behind your back infront of a cop, especially a cop with a gun pointed at you, is a bad idea.


And one shouldn't need to have a high IQ to understand the elements of a particular crime.
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:32 pm

Redd wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

It's completely nuts, it makes no sense when you can find multiple videos of people shoplifting in California, walking out of the stores past security with bin liners full of crap and nobody lifts a finger to stop them.



Yeah, I've seen that. Where is the Police in those situations, right? And here you have some handicapped old man, probably mentally ill and he gets popped for a tool box, literally posing zero threat to two armed police officers. Beyond crazy.

Aaron747 wrote:

That's because those jurisdictions have decided to spend limited police resources on violent crime instead of petty misdeameanors.


70 gangsters storming a store and carrying out its goods is hardly a petty misdemeanor. It's organized crime that poses a significant threat to the public. I have no problem with cops doing what it takes to stop those people. Letting them loot sends a message to those gutter rats that they can do what ever they like, which will only embolden them and other criminals, and without question leading to more serious and violent crime. There has to be rule of law. Looking from the outside, it looks like the USA, especially the blue states are tearing themselves apart at the seams.





I subscribe to a subreddit called r/dataisbeautiful. It’s a collection of maps and general data concerning all types of topics. A recent post dealt with crime in America and many cities in the top 20 most dangerous places are solidly Republican. Compare that to NYC and Los Angeles which are now considered two of the safest big cities in the country. Overall, red states are not any safer and many are far more dangerous due to poverty, poor education and a low human development index. Wanting blue states to tear themselves apart and it actually happening are clearly not the same thing Francine and you damn well know it. It’s good to know that you wish the best for your fellow countrymen living in blue states. Don’t be such a partisan hack and stop spreading nonsense because you’re doing exactly what the politicians want. Like, hello? Why am I even having to say this?
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:58 pm

ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
You left out the part where the suspect had a weapon which changes things.


You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.

Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.


You bow down to authority types are an existential threat to American democracy. It’s almost as if you’re asking for authoritarianism. I’m sure you also fail to realize that just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s right. You’re clearly an apologist for police abusing their power and I think you like it when they kill people. Even though they’re usually cowards who feel threatened by some harmless “weapon”. Do you know that law enforcement doesn’t even rank within the top ten most dangerous jobs in America? So what’s your justification for their Wild West, over the top, aggressive behavior?

Why is virtually every other police force on earth able to disarm and easily deescalate a situation? London police don’t seem to have a problem taking down a knife wielding criminal and many of them don’t even have guns. Now that’s real policing. What we see in America is a perversion of what police should be, an us vs. them attitude and then people like you with your hardon for authority, cheering in the stands whenever the cops kill another harmless person. If you’re scared of a knife, you shouldn’t be a cop and if you’re scared of a knife wielding disabled person, you’re just pathetic.

Also, I’m tired of people blaming everything on some agenda or pc crowd. Just use them as an excuse and all the know nothings will nod their heads and you won’t have to use facts. The world is far too complex to keep blaming everything on whatever so and so politician told you to hate today.
 
N626AA
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Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:25 pm

Just watched the video. Man. Pretty excessive to kill him like that. I think the whole situation could've been handled a lot better and everyone come out alive but I'm not in a position to break down every millisecond of what could've, should've, should've happened.

In one video, you can hear the officer say "He's got his knife in his other hand." Which hand?? Officer Stephanie Taylor was the (I believe) second officer on scene and I think she'd like to know before approaching the perp but then bam, 9 shots and the perp keels over dead.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14949
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:32 pm

If their guns had 30 shots would they also empty their magazines in people ? Is that what they're taught to do ?
 
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Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 16812
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:04 am

ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.



You never watched the video did you?

I did, so lets recap: The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!


Completely wrong. Shoplifting value under $1K is a misdemeanor in AZ:

https://tobinlawoffice.com/arizona-shoplifting-law/

Brandishing a weapon in AZ is only a felony if done in commission of another felony:

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm

Facts trump feelings.
 
TriJets
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:13 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:13 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:

You left out the part where the Police Department already fired the cop. The knife will not matter much as he was not openly welding it at the cop.

Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.


You bow down to authority types are an existential threat to American democracy. It’s almost as if you’re asking for authoritarianism. I’m sure you also fail to realize that just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s right. You’re clearly an apologist for police abusing their power and I think you like it when they kill people. Even though they’re usually cowards who feel threatened by some harmless “weapon”. Do you know that law enforcement doesn’t even rank within the top ten most dangerous jobs in America? So what’s your justification for their Wild West, over the top, aggressive behavior?

Why is virtually every other police force on earth able to disarm and easily deescalate a situation? London police don’t seem to have a problem taking down a knife wielding criminal and many of them don’t even have guns. Now that’s real policing. What we see in America is a perversion of what police should be, an us vs. them attitude and then people like you with your hardon for authority, cheering in the stands whenever the cops kill another harmless person. If you’re scared of a knife, you shouldn’t be a cop and if you’re scared of a knife wielding disabled person, you’re just pathetic.

Also, I’m tired of people blaming everything on some agenda or pc crowd. Just use them as an excuse and all the know nothings will nod their heads and you won’t have to use facts. The world is far too complex to keep blaming everything on whatever so and so politician told you to hate today.


While I'm mostly on your side here, a knife can and will jack somebody up. There's video floating around the web of police in a Central American country confronting a man who was armed with a knife...the man stabbed and killed four police officers before he was finally shot and killed.

The guy in the wheelchair absolutely should not have been shot, though.
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:16 am

TriJets wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Yes, the knife does matter. It's called armed robbery so the cop was justified in shooting the perpetrator. He was fired to appease the PC crowd. Hopefully he sues and gets reinstated.


You bow down to authority types are an existential threat to American democracy. It’s almost as if you’re asking for authoritarianism. I’m sure you also fail to realize that just because something is legal doesn’t mean it’s right. You’re clearly an apologist for police abusing their power and I think you like it when they kill people. Even though they’re usually cowards who feel threatened by some harmless “weapon”. Do you know that law enforcement doesn’t even rank within the top ten most dangerous jobs in America? So what’s your justification for their Wild West, over the top, aggressive behavior?

Why is virtually every other police force on earth able to disarm and easily deescalate a situation? London police don’t seem to have a problem taking down a knife wielding criminal and many of them don’t even have guns. Now that’s real policing. What we see in America is a perversion of what police should be, an us vs. them attitude and then people like you with your hardon for authority, cheering in the stands whenever the cops kill another harmless person. If you’re scared of a knife, you shouldn’t be a cop and if you’re scared of a knife wielding disabled person, you’re just pathetic.

Also, I’m tired of people blaming everything on some agenda or pc crowd. Just use them as an excuse and all the know nothings will nod their heads and you won’t have to use facts. The world is far too complex to keep blaming everything on whatever so and so politician told you to hate today.


While I'm mostly on your side here, a knife can and will jack somebody up. There's video floating around the web of police in a Central American country confronting a man who was armed with a knife...the man stabbed and killed four police officers before he was finally shot and killed.

The guy in the wheelchair absolutely should not have been shot, though.


Was this guy in Central America in a wheelchair? Maybe a spouse could have winged him or something, shot the knife out of his hand, blew the smoke out of the barrel, twirled the gun and stuck it back in her apron. Game over criminal!
 
Redd
Posts: 1427
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:01 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:



I subscribe to a subreddit called r/dataisbeautiful. It’s a collection of maps and general data concerning all types of topics. A recent post dealt with crime in America and many cities in the top 20 most dangerous places are solidly Republican.


Yeah, but the problem with that is that it's just not true. Top 10 most dangerous cities in the USA for murder and non-negligent manslaughter: (Murders/100k)
1. St. Louis
2. Baltimore
3. Detroit
4. New Orleans
5. Baton Rouge
6. Kansas City
7. Cleveland
8. Memphis
9. Newark
10. Chicago

If you choose to look at assaults, first 10 cities are also blue

Each of those cities is blue, or Very blue, as per last election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... rime_rates
 
ItnStln
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:49 pm

Redd wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:



I subscribe to a subreddit called r/dataisbeautiful. It’s a collection of maps and general data concerning all types of topics. A recent post dealt with crime in America and many cities in the top 20 most dangerous places are solidly Republican.


Yeah, but the problem with that is that it's just not true. Top 10 most dangerous cities in the USA for murder and non-negligent manslaughter: (Murders/100k)
1. St. Louis
2. Baltimore
3. Detroit
4. New Orleans
5. Baton Rouge
6. Kansas City
7. Cleveland
8. Memphis
9. Newark
10. Chicago

If you choose to look at assaults, first 10 cities are also blue

Each of those cities is blue, or Very blue, as per last election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... rime_rates

I am surprised DC isn't on that list. I actually felt pretty safe in Atlanta, but they are a pretty gun friendly state. I am surprised by Memphis however.
 
ItnStln
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:01 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
casinterest wrote:


You never watched the video did you?

I did, so lets recap: The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!


Completely wrong. Shoplifting value under $1K is a misdemeanor in AZ:

https://tobinlawoffice.com/arizona-shoplifting-law/

Brandishing a weapon in AZ is only a felony if done in commission of another felony:

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm

Facts trump feelings.

Not completely wrong! This perpetrator committed armed robbery, brandished a deadly weapon, and fled from a cop. Never once did I say shoplifting was a felony, so get your facts straight and stop making shit up! In most other states brandishing a deadly weapon is a felony. However, fleeing is also a felony and this perpetrator did flee from a cop.
 
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Aaron747
Topic Author
Posts: 16812
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:06 pm

ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
I did, so lets recap: The perpetrator was armed, just committed an armed robbery, and was fleeing. That's at least two felonies right there!


Completely wrong. Shoplifting value under $1K is a misdemeanor in AZ:

https://tobinlawoffice.com/arizona-shoplifting-law/

Brandishing a weapon in AZ is only a felony if done in commission of another felony:

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm

Facts trump feelings.

Not completely wrong! This perpetrator committed armed robbery, brandished a deadly weapon, and fled from a cop. Never once did I say shoplifting was a felony, so get your facts straight and stop making shit up! In most other states brandishing a deadly weapon is a felony. However, fleeing is also a felony and this perpetrator did flee from a cop.


Shoplifting is not armed robbery. Playing fast and loose with words doesn't make you right. :boggled:
 
ItnStln
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
ItnStln wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Completely wrong. Shoplifting value under $1K is a misdemeanor in AZ:

https://tobinlawoffice.com/arizona-shoplifting-law/

Brandishing a weapon in AZ is only a felony if done in commission of another felony:

https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03102.htm

Facts trump feelings.

Not completely wrong! This perpetrator committed armed robbery, brandished a deadly weapon, and fled from a cop. Never once did I say shoplifting was a felony, so get your facts straight and stop making shit up! In most other states brandishing a deadly weapon is a felony. However, fleeing is also a felony and this perpetrator did flee from a cop.


Shoplifting is not armed robbery. Playing fast and loose with words doesn't make you right. :boggled:

Waiving a knife around when confronted does make it armed robbery in several states. It is you who is not right here! In the worst case scenario the world is down one thief, and in the best case scenario, the world is down a felon! The perpetrator should have lived by the motto "be smart or be dead," and he might not have caused his own death!
 
meecrob
Posts: 365
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:12 pm

Even if it was a felony, that doesn't mean a cop gets to shoot them, it means they get to charge them with a felony.
 
ItnStln
Posts: 324
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:47 pm

Re: Tucson Cop Fired for Killing Shoplifting Suspect

Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:16 pm

meecrob wrote:
Even if it was a felony, that doesn't mean a cop gets to shoot them, it means they get to charge them with a felony.

Felony encounters are handled different than non-felony encounters, and rightfully so.

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