COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - 2022

c933103 · Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:21 am

https://hk.news.yahoo.com/%E7%89%B9%E9% ... 54096.html

Hong Kong government claim import case quota and circuitbreaking mechanism is an important policy to prevent cases from entering Hong Kong, hence there aren't much rooms for significant relaxation of these flights banning policies to help the airlines

They claim these flight bans aren't government battling against airlines, but are rather policy to ensure Hong Kong can pass the current wave of pandemic, amd hope that successful suppression of the pandemic can lead to normalized cross border traffic with mainland china, in addition to resumption of normal interaction with people overseas. Hence they cannot give up these principles and objectives for granting more flights to airlines.

c933103 · Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:33 am

Toenga wrote:
Last figures out of NZ is that in the space of 6 weeks the Omricon outbreak here has progressed from very predominantly Ba1 to now very predominantly Ba2. This means that daily infection rates, and hospitilisations are much higher then modelled only two months ago.
The daily case numbers in Auckland, 1/3 rd of our total population, seem to be falling now quite quickly, but hospitilisations seem to have plateaued at around 600 for Auckland but are rapidly rising through 400 for the rest of the country. Daily deaths are at 15 yesterday and expected to keep rising for some time yet.

https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/n ... rted-today

Hopefully we will avoid though the second Omicron wave that seems to be shaping up elsewhere in the world.

6 year old grandson in Wellington tested positive yesterday with mild symptoms. Has had one dose of Pfizer and was due for second today.
His parents, both triple dosed, still negative, for now.
We wont visit just yet though nor will we be inviting them here for Easter!

I didn't recall any mention of BA2 domestically in Hong Kong, when news talk about BA2, they mainly mention it in Western countries context. As well as passing mention of BA2 is the dominant strain in China mainland now.

But I just came across this news from Taiwan
https://www.storm.mg/article/4248931
Which.claim Hong Kong are all BA.2 now, and also cited a study from Hong Kong which said it have a doubling time of 1.28 days in the city.

c933103 · Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:37 am

c933103 wrote:
https://hk.news.yahoo.com/%E7%89%B9%E9%A6%96-%E6%AA%A2%E8%A6%96%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E7%90%86%E9%A0%86%E7%86%94%E6%96%B7%E6%A9%9F%E5%88%B6-%E4%B8%8D%E5%AD%98%E5%9C%A8%E5%B0%8D%E8%88%AA%E7%A9%BA%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8%E5%A4%A7%E8%AE%93%E6%AD%A5-040054096.html

Hong Kong government claim import case quota and circuitbreaking mechanism is an important policy to prevent cases from entering Hong Kong, hence there aren't much rooms for significant relaxation of these flights banning policies to help the airlines

They claim these flight bans aren't government battling against airlines, but are rather policy to ensure Hong Kong can pass the current wave of pandemic, amd hope that successful suppression of the pandemic can lead to normalized cross border traffic with mainland china, in addition to resumption of normal interaction with people overseas. Hence they cannot give up these principles and objectives for granting more flights to airlines.

https://orientaldaily.on.cc/content/%E8 ... F%E9%80%B2
This is apparently an response to 11 international airlines' request to HK Government to ease quarantine condition for flight crew and such. Including BA, JL, UA, Fedex, UPS

c933103 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 3:30 am

From real time stream of government press release, the government claim they will stop banning flights based on region with too many inbound visitors found to be infected with coronavirus, but they will continue to ban flights of specific airlines from specific destination if any single plane is found to have more than 3 people infected. The government claim such measure remain in place is to serve as a punishment mechanism against airlines, so as to make airlines comply with pandemic prevention rules

c933103 · Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:12 pm

https://www.zaobao.com.sg/news/china/st ... 26-1256113
Chinese media published article that said it is "100% confirmed" that Moderna made the novel coronavirus, because an amino acid patented by Moderna in year 2016 for cancer pill, contain a 19-nucleotide fragment that also appears in the novel coronavirus. Chinese reports cited report from fringe British websites and then integrated the Russian claim of Ukrainian biolab funded by the US into the claim.
A CEO of a Chinese Biotechnology company tried to debunk the conspiracy theory, by first saying that nucleotide fragment isn't unique to coronavirus and is also found in other species from birds to fungus, in addition to pointing out fault in the Chinese report and additional logical fallacy introduced when Chinese media translate the report. However, the fact checking post got deleted from Chinese internet, and the CEO's account on Chinese social network have also been perma-banned, with the displayed reason of the ban being "violated relevant laws and rules"

lightsaber · Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:25 am

France and UK are seeing upticks in hospitalizations (just starting up in France, from a high baseline).
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/curr ... ?tab=chart

In fact, despite the population difference, those two countries have more people in the hospital than the USA. Note: I personally believe the USA is lagging again and will see an uptick later.

I wish there were better numbers on age, comonidities and such. There are definitively pockets of well vaccinated and pockets of unvaccinated. When normalized, hospitalizations were 83 times higher for unvaccinated vs. boosted with Omicron:
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/202 ... w-cdc-data

Lightsaber

Toenga · Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:58 am

lightsaber wrote:
France and UK are seeing upticks in hospitalizations (just starting up in France, from a high baseline).
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/curr ... ?tab=chart

In fact, despite the population difference, those two countries have more people in the hospital than the USA. Note: I personally believe the USA is lagging again and will see an uptick later.

I wish there were better numbers on age, comonidities and such. There are definitively pockets of well vaccinated and pockets of unvaccinated. When normalized, hospitalizations were 83 times higher for unvaccinated vs. boosted with Omicron:
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/202 ... w-cdc-data

Lightsaber

NZ northern region, c 1.9milliom population on the relationship between vaccination rates and hospitilisation

The figures show that just under 3% of people aged 12 and over in the Northern Region have had no doses of the vaccine, while of those aged 12 and over in Northland and Auckland hospitals with COVID-19 for whom we have vaccination status recorded, 15% have had no doses of the vaccine and are five times over-represented in our hospitalisation figures.

https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/n ... rted-today

The NZ outbreak is now almost exclusively Omicron Ba2

c933103 · Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:56 pm

lightsaber wrote:
France and UK are seeing upticks in hospitalizations (just starting up in France, from a high baseline).
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/curr ... ?tab=chart

In fact, despite the population difference, those two countries have more people in the hospital than the USA. Note: I personally believe the USA is lagging again and will see an uptick later.

I wish there were better numbers on age, comonidities and such. There are definitively pockets of well vaccinated and pockets of unvaccinated. When normalized, hospitalizations were 83 times higher for unvaccinated vs. boosted with Omicron:
https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/202 ... w-cdc-data

Lightsaber

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/biwe ... UT~FIN~CHE

But case count from Germanic countries seems to have peaked quite soon in the latest wave. Hospitalization will be delayed, but hopefully that might also mean rise in hospitalization this time could be less.

c933103 · Tue Mar 29, 2022 11:30 pm

As a number of Chinese cities enter lockdown again, scattered report on the internet claim lockdown enforcers are checking refrigerators of homes inside some lockdown area, and would destroy any foods that aren't purchased through official food purchase and delivery apps, as they claim such other foods being stored have risk of having viruses attached onto them.

lightsaber · Thu Mar 31, 2022 2:31 pm

For only the 1st time in this pandemic, my relative's hospital in Western Colorado has ZERO coronavirus patients. As the floor is "ICU overflow," that is the duty now of the critical care floor, it is stood down from coronavirus duty. It is now post-operation care (in particular, post cardiac or renal surgeries or anyone with cancer), cardiac overflow, and if required, handle those who need an ICU bed when the ICU is full.

The dashboard lists 3 patients for the six hospitals; all patients are at the 5 "satellite" hospitals as patients with Covid19. e.g., one is a skiing injury with Covid19 at a tiny satellite hospital supporting one ski town where there is a pair of isolation rooms to protect other patients. No longer do they have to rush every coronavirus patient to the overflow hospital to clear isolation rooms (to protect other patients) as the overflow hospital has multiple isolation floors (capacity ideal, 32 per floor, at the worst they doubled up patients in each room and almost hit a hundred patients). Note: they can now only staff one floor: most nurses see no reason to work coronavirus and have gone back to their cardiac, pediatric, or other specialties, as vaccinated patients are rare and only with really compromised immune system; (except for that one really cute athletic dude who made out with a chick in a bar as that level of exposure hospitalized him). No link, doctor's gossip.

https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

Unfortunately, the age 5-11 vaccine isn't effective enough. (only 48% reduction in hospitalizations, negligible for infections). My youngest is not amused by my humor that she gets a booster as a birthday present. I believe too under-dosed (10 micro-grams vs. 30 in adult dose).

https://www.salon.com/2022/03/06/expert ... e-reports/

Has anyone heard what happened to those 500 million unused doses of AZ? When I look at data, it seems like they are waiting for a taker still. Meh... I think everyone is done with worrying about coronavirus. Unfortunately, I do not think coronavirus got the memo and will keep trying (I posted upthread the link showing UK and French hospitalizations rising).

casinterest · Thu Mar 31, 2022 3:59 pm

lightsaber wrote:
For only the 1st time in this pandemic, my relative's hospital in Western Colorado has ZERO coronavirus patients. As the floor is "ICU overflow," that is the duty now of the critical care floor, it is stood down from coronavirus duty. It is now post-operation care (in particular, post cardiac or renal surgeries or anyone with cancer), cardiac overflow, and if required, handle those who need an ICU bed when the ICU is full.

The dashboard lists 3 patients for the six hospitals; all patients are at the 5 "satellite" hospitals as patients with Covid19. e.g., one is a skiing injury with Covid19 at a tiny satellite hospital supporting one ski town where there is a pair of isolation rooms to protect other patients. No longer do they have to rush every coronavirus patient to the overflow hospital to clear isolation rooms (to protect other patients) as the overflow hospital has multiple isolation floors (capacity ideal, 32 per floor, at the worst they doubled up patients in each room and almost hit a hundred patients). Note: they can now only staff one floor: most nurses see no reason to work coronavirus and have gone back to their cardiac, pediatric, or other specialties, as vaccinated patients are rare and only with really compromised immune system; (except for that one really cute athletic dude who made out with a chick in a bar as that level of exposure hospitalized him). No link, doctor's gossip.

https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

Unfortunately, the age 5-11 vaccine isn't effective enough. (only 48% reduction in hospitalizations, negligible for infections). My youngest is not amused by my humor that she gets a booster as a birthday present. I believe too under-dosed (10 micro-grams vs. 30 in adult dose).

https://www.salon.com/2022/03/06/expert ... e-reports/

Has anyone heard what happened to those 500 million unused doses of AZ? When I look at data, it seems like they are waiting for a taker still. Meh... I think everyone is done with worrying about coronavirus. Unfortunately, I do not think coronavirus got the memo and will keep trying (I posted upthread the link showing UK and French hospitalizations rising).

Great news.
Here in NC the cases are going down. We are under 1000 cases for the 7 day daily average for the first time since JUly of last year. Hopefully it stays that way.
I wouldn't worry too much about the kids. They are getting their dosages, and doing well. I Chaperoned a field trip recently, and all but 1 of the kids was maskless. They were joking and having a good time. Good to see.

I will probably get a 2nd booster between now and the fall just to be sure. But right now it doesn't look like we need the 4th dose in the US.

StarAC17 · Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:53 pm

c933103 wrote:
As a number of Chinese cities enter lockdown again, scattered report on the internet claim lockdown enforcers are checking refrigerators of homes inside some lockdown area, and would destroy any foods that aren't purchased through official food purchase and delivery apps, as they claim such other foods being stored have risk of having viruses attached onto them.

If this is true my belief that the Chinese are competent is out the Window. We knew very early on that surface transmission of Covid was low. I mean considering they are the only country that is still clinging to Covid Zero means they lack competence but to actually think that Covid is highly transmitted via surfaces.

casinterest wrote:
I will probably get a 2nd booster between now and the fall just to be sure. But right now it doesn't look like we need the 4th dose in the US.

I will if its variant targeted.

lightsaber · Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:17 am

StarAC17 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As a number of Chinese cities enter lockdown again, scattered report on the internet claim lockdown enforcers are checking refrigerators of homes inside some lockdown area, and would destroy any foods that aren't purchased through official food purchase and delivery apps, as they claim such other foods being stored have risk of having viruses attached onto them.

If this is true my belief that the Chinese are competent is out the Window. We knew very early on that surface transmission of Covid was low. I mean considering they are the only country that is still clinging to Covid Zero means they lack competence but to actually think that Covid is highly transmitted via surfaces.

casinterest wrote:
I will probably get a 2nd booster between now and the fall just to be sure. But right now it doesn't look like we need the 4th dose in the US.

I will if its variant targeted.

The Chinese response is... odd. Search my fridge, over my spoiled takeout!

Look at the turn up in European hospitalizations:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/curr ... EL~NLD~GBR

That surge convinced me to get my 4th dose. That said, I social dance, without a mask. My kids are in large child activities (older boosted).

Seriously, any word on the half billion doses of AZ sitting without a customer? With only 64.4% of the world with even one dose... That seems silly to wait for better. We (as in rich countries) should help supply base doses and the a more "Gucci" booster.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

The median age of death is very different based on vaccination status:
https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2 ... ients.html
Unvaccinated: 59 years old
Vaccinated 70 years old
Boosted 73 years old.

The comonidities were high among the vaccinated deaths.

Lightsaber

c933103 · Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:05 am

StarAC17 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
As a number of Chinese cities enter lockdown again, scattered report on the internet claim lockdown enforcers are checking refrigerators of homes inside some lockdown area, and would destroy any foods that aren't purchased through official food purchase and delivery apps, as they claim such other foods being stored have risk of having viruses attached onto them.

If this is true my belief that the Chinese are competent is out the Window. We knew very early on that surface transmission of Covid was low. I mean considering they are the only country that is still clinging to Covid Zero means they lack competence but to actually think that Covid is highly transmitted via surfaces.

The suspicion is it is probably a profit-motivated move, since by only allowing foods ordered via official mobile apps/miniapps and destroying all other foods, that mean monopoly, and residents would have to spend thousands to buy food from official apps, in order to feed themselves no matter how ridiculous their asking price is, in the name of coronavirus prevention.

leader1 · Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:08 pm

They’re now testing cats for Covid in China.

https://twitter.com/ep_lawrence/status/ ... yeelcMMLMQ

frmrCapCadet · Fri Apr 01, 2022 1:45 pm

Now that second booster is authorized, and reading such information as is available my conclusions are that there is no clear conclusion that 4th shot is clearly indicated. There are possible downsides. We are retired, and still limit number of social contacts, masked i stores, not eating out much. I would be interested in why or why not posters regarding that 4th shot.

casinterest · Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:06 pm

As we start Q2 of 2022,
An interesting note from the US. The decline in cases may be nearing a stop. The cases for this 7 week period vs last 7 week perid were only down .8 % or ~1500 cases from the previous 7 days.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ekly_table

Spring Break for kids gets rolling in another 7 days, with college spring breaks already winding up. Will be interesting to see what follows.

fallap · Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
As we start Q2 of 2022,
An interesting note from the US. The decline in cases may be nearing a stop. The cases for this 7 week period vs last 7 week perid were only down .8 % or ~1500 cases from the previous 7 days.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ekly_table

Spring Break for kids gets rolling in another 7 days, with college spring breaks already winding up. Will be interesting to see what follows.

People having fun and enjoying life would be my best bet

lightsaber · Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:51 pm

fallap wrote:
casinterest wrote:
As we start Q2 of 2022,
An interesting note from the US. The decline in cases may be nearing a stop. The cases for this 7 week period vs last 7 week perid were only down .8 % or ~1500 cases from the previous 7 days.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ekly_table

Spring Break for kids gets rolling in another 7 days, with college spring breaks already winding up. Will be interesting to see what follows.

People having fun and enjoying life would be my best bet

The issue is the so called "natural immunity" fades so quickly, we will have a spreading event:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03 ... vid/?amp=1

Unvaccinated people who recover from an omicron coronavirus variant infection are left with paltry levels of neutralizing antibodies against omicron. They also have almost no neutralizing antibodies against any of five other coronavirus variants, including delta. People who were vaccinated before getting an omicron infection, however, have strong protection against all five variants, and they have some of the highest levels of neutralizing antibodies against omicron.

I have friends and relatives who are doctors in coronavirus wards. Vaccinated patients are rare and always imniocompromised.

For most of the kids, they'll do fine. Spring break will bring in BA.2, transmit it, and spread. I posted a link upthread on how European cases and hospitalizations are growing. I fully understand no one will lock down anymore.

This will be interesting. Almost certainly, spring break will halt the drop in cases and hospitalizations.

It took me over a year to recover from the nerve damage coronavirus causes. Doctors tell me about 5% of unvaccinated people who get coronavirus have nerve damage. I hope these kids realize fully what they are signing up for.

Please read the book "Psychology of Pandemics."

BA.1 does provide protection from BA.2 for a limited time. The question is, for how long?

All I care about is not overloading the hospitals.

Lightsaber

N5301D · Sun Apr 03, 2022 5:49 pm

Very clever. A German man received 90 COVID shots and sold forged passes.
https://apnews.com/article/covid-health ... 6a9829910b

lightsaber · Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:41 pm

For convenience, I added the link of hospitalizations:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/curr ... SP~BEL~NLD

Its a big deal having a patient with coronavirus as they must be isolated from other patients to protect the vulnerable.
The USA is in a lull, but not zero.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/curr ... s-hospital

There is no doubt the excess deaths during the pandemic were high (see the chart, it is telling). https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm

In parts of New York and New England, they have been seeing increasing Coronavirus in the waste water for 2 weeks and are now starting to see the hospitalizations.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/sewage ... -outbreaks

This virus just mutates far too much.
Lightsaber

c933103 · Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:16 am

What happened to US and Germany last week?

Also, Chinese lockdown isn't stopping the Omicron. Although doubling time is longer than most other countries.

lightsaber · Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:00 am

c933103 wrote:

What happened to US and Germany last week?

Also, Chinese lockdown isn't stopping the Omicron. Although doubling time is longer than most other countries.

US looks fine this morning. It must have been a data glitch.

Europe has a growing wave, but it looks like France and the UK might already be peaking; it will take a few days to know for certain. With BA.2 having a high Ro, these waves will be fast.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Germany doesn't publish hospital data. In France and the UK hospitalizations are high and growing:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations

c933103 · Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:11 am

lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:

What happened to US and Germany last week?

Also, Chinese lockdown isn't stopping the Omicron. Although doubling time is longer than most other countries.

US looks fine this morning. It must have been a data glitch.

Europe has a growing wave, but it looks like France and the UK might already be peaking; it will take a few days to know for certain. With BA.2 having a high Ro, these waves will be fast.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Germany doesn't publish hospital data. In France and the UK hospitalizations are high and growing:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-hospitalizations

The German data also appears peaked last month, as I commented in the last thread, but then there is this sudden spike.

Also note that the EU/US chart is 7-days average.

frmrCapCadet · Tue Apr 05, 2022 2:26 pm

Here are my intuitions based on the minimal data for a second booster shot:
Not before 4 or 5 months after the first booster, so I have decided to wait for the 6 month mark
What I have not read is whether or not to switch vaccines. I have had all Pfizer, and wife Moderna. Anyone have a suggestion on this?

Chemist · Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:47 pm

1 - I've read that there are indications that by switching vaccines (mRNA), you broaden the protections a bit.
2 - Do we have any data on the longer term durability of the booster in a 3-shot mRNA sequence? That would be good information to inform whether, and when, to get a second booster.

frmrCapCadet · Tue Apr 05, 2022 8:54 pm

There has been limited advice that spacing vaccinations closer together may cause some lessening of effectiveness, but the data is pretty sketchy. Even the recommendation for the second booster is a little sketchy, but we plan on getting it.

c933103 · Wed Apr 06, 2022 12:29 pm

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking ... er-holiday

Omicron death rate in Hong Kong now reached 0.71% as new infection fall and more cases get closed.

c933103 · Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:33 pm

https://m.weibo.cn/status/LndUsnIBQ?jum ... om#comment
China
Shanghai
Lockdown caused food supply unable to deliver
TV stations are airing program teaching people how to perform diet to reduce food consumption.

https://3g.163.com/dy/article/H4BNF94B0 ... ss=adap_dy
Again in Shanghai
A woman who cannot find food for her disabled father, so she contacted a food delivery person from before ask for help
The deliveryperson worried about the father, so he rushed to her father's home over 27km and delivered food to him.
However, people on the public posted about the woman only paid US$30 tips to the delivery person, and start bullying her over the internet, causing her to jump off the building
People commented, "For such accusation of she paid too few tips, her father lost his dear daughter forever, and his son have his mother no more."
A media managed to contact the delivery person, who mentioned he intended to help the woman's father just to help them out as it is so difficult for elderly to get any things to eat in the current situation, with no intention of getting financial compensation, yet there's all the post over the internet making accusation against the woman that make me couldn't sleep over the night.

https://chinadigitaltimes.net/chinese/679166.html
Shanghai
A positively-tested patient was taken away to quarantine
The patient's pet dig followed
But the staff simply snapped the dog death using the shovel on their hand.
People commented such determination in killing and the way they do it, is almost a copy of when those Japanese soliders was in Nanjing

https://m.sohu.com/a/535735443_639898/?pvid=000115_3w_a
Also Shanghai
A mom and her daughter from Shanghai is found to sneaked onto an intercity train at 4am in the mid night for the next city, and what they did once they reached the other city was nothing but supermarkets and KFC.
------

I have also received quite a number of messages from people in Shanghai who mentioned they aren't able to get any new foods over the past 5 days, and can only rely on what they already had before the lockdown started, or borrowing from neighbors, or ask for help from residents who work in delivery service thus have special permit to be able to help buy new supply for the community they live in. Although there are also significant difference in situation between different individual communes, depending on the capability of individual commune leaders.

lightsaber · Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:17 pm

It looks like the Europe surge is already on the way down. At least Germany, UK, and France have cases dropping with the German and UK drop very marked (and it looks like France is just a few days behind in their trend).

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

I know an amazing number of people reporting "food poisoning." Since I have never known more than 1 group of friends to get actual food poisoning, I suspect it is undiagnosed Omicron.
https://vnexplorer.net/the-little-know- ... 66738.html

My boss just recovered from a week long miserable (but still medically mild) case of Covid19 (104F fever, chills, night sweats, tons of coughing, sleeping 12+ hours a day, no appetite). However that was certainly due to exposure in public places (viral load).

I feel for the people who cannot get enough food due to lockdowns. With a high Ro, the new versions of coronavirus are not going to be stopped. I notice mask wearing is (temporarily) coming back locally which will reduce viral load. The difference in exposure area mask/no mask is dramatic:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7883189/

The number of links proving mask effectiveness in that link is impressive. But mostly for the person transmitting. Oh well, the only people I know going to the hospital are the imniocompromized or the unvaccinated. Europe seems to have (mostly) gone through their wave, we'll start ours soon (USA) per my chart reading. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber

lightsaber · Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:00 pm

c933103 wrote:
https://m.weibo.cn/status/LndUsnIBQ?jumpfrom=weibocom#comment
China
Shanghai
Lockdown caused food supply unable to deliver
TV stations are airing program teaching people how to perform diet to reduce food consumption.

The Shanghai food problem seems to be getting worse.

https://www.vindy.com/news/latest-news/ ... -shutdown/

“The government told us at the beginning this would last four days,” she said. “Many people were not prepared.”

That article is well worth a read. It looks like in Shanghai the "last 100m" distribution has broken down.

At least parents may now stay with infected children.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... uxbndlbing

What is the end game? With a highly infection variant with asymptomatic transmission and guaranteed (in my opinion) re-introduction from outside, lockdowns are a short term bandaid

. I could understand if hospitals were over flowing with medically necessary cases and there was a mass vaccination drive going on simultaneously. If nothing is changed, nothing will change.

I was all for precautions before vaccines were readily available. There is now a global surplus of vaccines.
More than 13 billion doses have been produced since the pandemic began, 11 billion of which have been administered
...
“Since mid-2021, global vaccine production has exceeded global vaccine demand and this gap has continuously risen,” Cueni told AFP.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/22924 ... eds-demand

China is wealthy, use some of that huge trade surplus to buy a billion doses of vaccine. Or give a 3rd dose of Sinovac. It is time to open up. The end game must be a normal life

As the ancient Romans said, we are never more than 3 meals from anarchy. Is it 9 from revolution?
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/ne ... e%20system

Lightsaber

c933103 · Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
What is the end game? With a highly infection variant with asymptomatic transmission and guaranteed (in my opinion) re-introduction from outside, lockdowns are a short term bandaid

https://udn.com/news/story/122650/6225668
Chinese expert now concluded that the exponential growth of Omicron case in Shanghai was because they lock down too late, and have not enough understanding about Omicron's characteristics. They say considering characteristic of Omicron, especially its high asymptomatic transmission rate, lockdown must be conducted as early as possible.

China is wealthy, use some of that huge trade surplus to buy a billion doses of vaccine. Or give a 3rd dose of Sinovac. It is time to open up. The end game must be a normal life

From the link over vaccine thread, hundreds of million people in China have already received booster dose. And they also already have regulatory approval as well as commercial license to produce Pfizer vaccine within the country yet they simply don't do it.

Also, the Chinese expert above still say there're thousands time more people in the US died due to the pandemic compares to China, the low number of death in China "fully show China's priority in putting the life of people in the first place" and thus while the country will gradually open up while maintaining "dynamic zero", "full open up is not applicable to China as it will lead to significant rise in number of death.

And the exoert also cited SinoVac data in Brazil, claim three dose of vaccine of same type do not result in significant increase in protection, then cited SinoVac-mRNA crossover data to say cross vaccination offer higher protection and the expert claim he himself took China Zhifei's protein recombinant vaccine as booster shot.

Also, another thing is that, apparently a large part of the food problem is that, as delivery remain one of the few still functioning chain in a city undergoing Chinese style lockdown, and given the working environment of delivery warehouse, in addition to the nature of delivery service that need to take and give different things to different people, there are quite a number of Omicron infection clusters among delivery companies and "volunteer" who get benefits to help delivering things. Thus further crippling the already unstable delivery service.

As the ancient Romans said, we are never more than 3 meals from anarchy. Is it 9 from revolution?
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/ne ... e%20system

Lightsaber

I posted in a previous thread. A border town in Yunnan of China relied on border trade see its border almost totally shut in the past two years. So is all the cross-border businesses. Then still there are some random outbreaks, and it locked down over 200 days in a year. People still needed to paid their rents and utilities and other expenses despite having no income due to lockdown and there aren't any sort of eviction ban or waivers that Western countries have. So many workers who still have money to afford traveling out, and have the money to afford paying for 14 days quarantine fee at destination city, fleed. And yet the government install barriers around the city to limit the amount of people moving out of it to reduce the chance of spread. And so more and more people cannot afford their day to day expense. Many killed themselves everyday. In a particularly remarkable case, a person who jumped off building did so while singing the national anthem. Most likely to defend his own dignity against the accusation being spread across the Chinese internet that "any people claiming Chinese people are not satisfied with Chinese government pandemic handling must be Japanese/Taiwanese/American spy/foreign forces trying to provoke conflict and upset our country's development"

lightsaber · Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:55 pm

c933103 wrote:
https://udn.com/news/story/122650/6225668
Chinese expert now concluded that the exponential growth of Omicron case in Shanghai was because they lock down too late, and have not enough understanding about Omicron's characteristics. They say considering characteristic of Omicron, especially its high asymptomatic transmission rate, lockdown must be conducted as early as possible.

Actually, that doesn't solve anything. Omicron's high transmission rate and asymptomatic transmission prevent lockdowns from being effective even short term. Seriously, within three weeks of lifting the lockdown Shanghai will be back where they were, so I'm confused at the end goal.

Lockdowns only serve two purposes when you cannot avoid the disease anymore:
1. Slow the disease to give hospitals time to treat patients
2. Give time for a vaccination campaign.

Notice the goal of eradicating the disease is gone? That isn't possible with Omicron even if BA.1, BA.2, XE or whatever flavor.

26 million people are scrambling to secure food for a lockdown I just cannot see any public health reason to pursue.
https://thesouthasiantimes.info/shangha ... cure-food/

Interesting. Without a massive booster (2nd booster?) campaign, the lockdowns are now tilting at windmills.

Lightsaber

cskok8 · Sat Apr 09, 2022 2:57 am

The CCP will not allow any foreign vaccine to be used since they "know" that their own are the bestest in the world

c933103 · Sat Apr 09, 2022 6:56 am

lightsaber wrote:
c933103 wrote:
https://udn.com/news/story/122650/6225668
Chinese expert now concluded that the exponential growth of Omicron case in Shanghai was because they lock down too late, and have not enough understanding about Omicron's characteristics. They say considering characteristic of Omicron, especially its high asymptomatic transmission rate, lockdown must be conducted as early as possible.

Actually, that doesn't solve anything. Omicron's high transmission rate and asymptomatic transmission prevent lockdowns from being effective even short term. Seriously, within three weeks of lifting the lockdown Shanghai will be back where they were, so I'm confused at the end goal.

Lockdowns only serve two purposes when you cannot avoid the disease anymore:
1. Slow the disease to give hospitals time to treat patients
2. Give time for a vaccination campaign.

Notice the goal of eradicating the disease is gone? That isn't possible with Omicron even if BA.1, BA.2, XE or whatever flavor.

26 million people are scrambling to secure food for a lockdown I just cannot see any public health reason to pursue.
https://thesouthasiantimes.info/shangha ... cure-food/

Interesting. Without a massive booster (2nd booster?) campaign, the lockdowns are now tilting at windmills.

Lightsaber

They don't believe in this being impossible.

Shanghai government now announced a new "3-tiered" lockdown system, with the aim of achieving dynamic zero in society as soon as possible.

https://news.sina.cn/gn/2022-04-09/deta ... 752.d.html

They plan to conduct another round of PCR testing across the entire city, and then classify the city into 3 different zones according to result.

First is prevention zone. It mean commune/villages/venues that have 0 positive cases in past 14 days. People in this zone can conduct reasonable amount of activity within their administrative district, but gathering remain severely restricted.

Second is monitor zone. It mean commune/villages/venues that have 0 positive cases in past 7 days. People in this zone should monitor their health at home for 7 days, and they cannot leave their commune/venue, no gathering allowed, delivery pick up must be slotted to avoid peaks through contactless mean in specific place with emphasis on sanitation against the objects they retrieve, stay home in principle but allow walking outside individual home in case strict personal protection are being worn.

Third is lockdown zone, aka anywhere with cases in past 7 days. Venues ans zones are to be enclosed, no leaving of home allowed, and service is to reach home directly.

c933103 · Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:04 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTeifSW2Qm4

In Jiuting Township of Shanghai, mass gathered and protested over material shortage, after ~3 weeks of lockdowm, demanding materials be distributed to them.

Some claim warning gunshot have been fired im the process?

lightsaber · Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:16 pm

c933103 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTeifSW2Qm4

In Jiuting Township of Shanghai, mass gathered and protested over material shortage, after ~3 weeks of lockdowm, demanding materials be distributed to them.

Some claim warning gunshot have been fired im the process?

Officials are now being fired due to the botch food distribution:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/shanghai- ... -1.6414303

Three local officials in Shanghai have been sacked over a slack response to the COVID-19 outbreak in China's largest city, where residents are complaining of harsh lockdown conditions leading to shortages of food and basic necessities.
...
Authorities say they will determine future steps based on testing results, but have given no specifics.
...
With no word on when the lockdown will be lifted, anxiety is rising, along with frustration over the city's apparent lack of preparation for an extended lockdown.

The current measures have been punitive to a degree I do not understand. Perhaps they will relax, perhaps not. They need a real exit plan. When you isolate people from food, you have to be perfect in the execution (which is, of course, impossible).

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory ... g-83978769
Under the new measures, areas in Shanghai will be classified as “precautionary,” “controlled” on “locked down,” depending on the results of the latest round of testing, Shanghai Vice Mayor Zong Ming told a news conference.

The poor people that will remain locked down. The uncertainty must be nerve wracking.

The worst part is with the asymptomatic cases, false negative tests, and high Ro, Shanghai will be back to where they were 3 weeks after the lockdown is lifted. I hope they can come up with a strategy to stop the cycle. People want to move on from this virus. With the vaccines, imperfect as they are, there is no reason not to.

Whatever is done, they had better figure out how to get food to people as there are just too many stories of people going hungry and it is simply impossible to forget being hungry.

Lightsaber

lightsaber · Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:30 pm

cskok8 wrote:
The CCP will not allow any foreign vaccine to be used since they "know" that their own are the bestest in the world

This will be interesting. I know the Western vaccines are not perfect, but they are good enough to offload the hospitals.

Best case scenario is the Sinovac vaccine fades in six months:
https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/14404409

c933103 wrote:
They don't believe in this being impossible.

Then I hope I am proven wrong. So far with Omicron, the stealth infections combined with many false negative tests... lead us to disagree.

First, they need to put processes in place that not one person goes hungry. In my opinion, the easier problem to solve.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/covid-19-s ... /39600998#
Since then, different countries have used different vaccines and have had different successes with vaccination campaigns. There's also a different level of immunity among populations in different regions. All of that affects the trajectory of COVID-19 cases.

...

With the highly contagious omicron variant, lockdowns can't totally stop the growth in cases, but the strategy has helped, experts say.

Let's discuss in a month the relative merit of the approaches.

Lightsaber

lightsaber · Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:34 pm

US officially warns against travel to China:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-warns ... 00314.html

The United States has warned Americans thinking of travelling to China that they may be subject to "arbitrary" local law enforcement and Covid-19 restrictions.

"Do not travel to the PRC [People's Republic of China]'s Hong Kong special administrative region, Jilin province and Shanghai municipality due to Covid-19-related restrictions, including the risk of parents and children being separated," the travel alert released by the US Department of State on Friday said.

There is also a Level 1 health travel advisory for China. The arbitrary label on laws is interesting, a full read of the article is needed to understand this. In my opinion, shutting down consular services is the most concerning aspect.

The problem is, with state controlled media, we'll never know the true coronavirus situation. There is a reason for opposition press.

Lightsaber

leader1 · Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:02 am

Things seem to be getting really out of control in Shanghai. Video of the “white suits” beating someone who broke lockdown protocol.

https://twitter.com/chuangcn/status/151 ... AY4Hz4CfIA

I know some people living in Shanghai and they say the situation is awful. Food shortages are a real issue and there is just a lot of pent up anger over how this was all handled.

One friend living there suspected that they were going to lockdown the whole city, so she went to Wuhan to stay with her parents. Judging from her WeChat, she’s free to roam around as the situation isn’t bad there.

lightsaber · Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:18 pm

Taiwan is going away from Zero-Covid:
https://news.yahoo.com/taiwan-move-away ... 59727.html

578 new cases, unfortunately one death in the Island nation:
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272 ... -one-death

leader1 wrote:
Things seem to be getting really out of control in Shanghai. Video of the “white suits” beating someone who broke lockdown protocol.

https://twitter.com/chuangcn/status/151 ... AY4Hz4CfIA

I know some people living in Shanghai and they say the situation is awful. Food shortages are a real issue and there is just a lot of pent up anger over how this was all handled.

One friend living there suspected that they were going to lockdown the whole city, so she went to Wuhan to stay with her parents. Judging from her WeChat, she’s free to roam around as the situation isn’t bad there.

Protests are starting:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... NewsSearch
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ch ... NewsSearch

Its late, but they are trying to improve food distribution:
https://news.yahoo.com/china-slams-us-v ... 30599.html

I cannot imagine. Every morning I wake up because I am starving. Right now I have the luxury of a selection of options to meet my needs. I couldn't imagine waking up and not being able to feed children due to bureaucratic blunder. It is impossible to forget real hunger, I'm not sure what is going on. This makes zero sense to me now that we have vaccines.

Lightsaber

c933103 · Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Taiwan is going away from Zero-Covid:
https://news.yahoo.com/taiwan-move-away ... 59727.html

578 new cases, unfortunately one death in the Island nation:
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/272 ... -one-death

https://m.commonhealth.com.tw/article/85966
Note that this is also pretty much planned, as weeks ago they mentioned the quarantine period will be gradually shorten if there are no significant changes to pandemic situation after each shortening. Of course it is not possible to open up without more and more cases, but then the question become to which extent will they follow through the plan or how large an outbreak can they accept while following through this opening up plan.

c933103 · Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:59 pm

https://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/21992439/
New corona medicine in Japan, undergoing approval process, found to be teratogenic against infants in animal experiment, causing malformed babies, and thus will not be recommend to pregnant people.

lightsaber · Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:47 am

Do not post more than two paragraphs from a link as that can be copywrite infringement.

leader1 · Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:18 am

“White coats” taking it to another level to get someone isolated.

https://twitter.com/fangshimin/status/1 ... QnOPZ56KdQ

c933103 · Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:51 pm

https://www.cna.com.tw/news/acn/202204130397.aspx
Chinese media published a total of six articles in the past week to argue covid-zero is *the* scientific choice in the fight against coronavirus.

luv2cattlecall · Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:25 pm

Mask mandate on planes is extended until May 3rd

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna24231

Toenga · Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:39 pm

c933103 wrote:
https://www.cna.com.tw/news/acn/202204130397.aspx
Chinese media published a total of six articles in the past week to argue covid-zero is *the* scientific choice in the fight against coronavirus.

Covid Zero was undoubtedly the best strategy healthwise and economically for most of the last two years.
But it never was really viable for any length of time for most countries as the practicalities of closing the borders to people crossing were just too high.
It remained very viable though, for some, mainly Pacific Rim and Pacific Island countries until they had achieved high vaccination rates. These that massively reduced the consequences of infection, vastly changing the social and economic cost benifit equation. Also the increasing infectiousness of the latest varients, combined with pressures to open the borders became just too challenging, for zero covid to be viable any longer, let alone be actually achievable. What remains to be seen is what residual protection layers will remain, such as any compulsory notification and isolation of infected peoples.

China is a special case though. They do not place anywhere near the same importance on open borders prevalent most everywhere else.
Tightly controlled borders may well align with a desire to reduce any unwelcomed scrutiny.

lightsaber · Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:53 am

Toenga wrote:
Covid Zero was undoubtedly the best strategy healthwise and economically for most of the last two years.
But it never was really viable for any length of time for most countries as the practicalities of closing the borders to people crossing were just too high.
It remained very viable though, for some, mainly Pacific Rim and Pacific Island countries until they had achieved high vaccination rates. These that massively reduced the consequences of infection, vastly changing the social and economic cost benifit equation. Also the increasing infectiousness of the latest varients, combined with pressures to open the borders became just too challenging, for zero covid to be viable any longer, let alone be actually achievable. What remains to be seen is what residual protection layers will remain, such as any compulsory notification and isolation of infected peoples.

Pre-vaccines, lockdowns (zero-covid) was an effective strategy. As you note, the vaccines change the cost/benefit balance dramatically. What was a costly, but lifesaving measure is now far too costly for the few benefits. I'd say masks help, but I think too many are fed up with them (however, I notice almost half the women going out dancing still wear them, it is the cost/benefit.).

With vaccine supply far greater than demand, there is no longer a need for lockdowns. Concerned? Boost. Require boosters if that concerned.
"Since mid-2021, global vaccine production has exceeded global vaccine demand and this gap has continuously risen," Cueni told AFP.

By next year, production could exceed demand by 1.3 to 3.1 billion doses, he added.

Many richer nations are now approaching oversupply. European Union (EU) and Group of Seven (G7) countries had a surplus of 497 million doses at the end of last month.

https://theaseanpost.com/geopolitics/20 ... ips-demand

It is time to travel again (this is an aviation blog). I'm not going to think twice about any destination with even a 1% chance of a lockdown or quarantine.

Lightsaber

c933103 · Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:26 pm

https://twitter.com/Jerry00107966/statu ... 7040251907
https://twitter.com/LongShao1/status/15 ... 7432354822

Thwre are now report that claim, the government in Shanghai are evicting people from their homes for the purpose of quarantining infected people

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