Braybuddy wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

It would be nice to see some better designs though. The current euro designs are quite bland, in particular the notes.

I tend to agree, but IIRC the winning designs were chosen by a committee made up of the EU central banks, so it's probably not surprising . It wouldn't cost anything to change them:

Using the example of airline liveries: any attempts to improve designs tend to end up looking worse than they were before. Also a lesson from airline business: aesthetics is the least of Euro's problems.
Last but not least: Any involvement of real people will inevitably cause counting of sexes, intense scrutiny of what they said (or didn't say) 60, 120 or 600 years ago, even more intense scrutiny of their alleged transgressions against today's standards, predictable whining of those not happy with underrepresentation of ethnicities and/or religions, etc., etc.
Current designs are not the most exciting ones, but we are paying with plastic money anyway... multicurrency prepaid cards like Revolut, make travel safer and easier, without the downsides of Euro.

A101 wrote:

We’ll isolation and size was never going to change, if you felt that NZ was to small you had the option of staying a colonial colony of the UK

How uncouth of you to mention "colony"! The PC term is British Overseas Territory.
PS-What's a colonial colony?

Kiwirob wrote:

A101 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

I think one of the biggest mistakes NZ ever made was not federating with Australia.

That would be interesting to see why you think that, but off topic here

Simple, isolation from the rest of the world and size.

Just like Canada should federate with the US and the Irish Republic should federate with the UK...
ETA-While that was said in jest, it might be a good thing. It would be the 5 Eyes plus 1. It would be the only strong federation that was distributed around the world.

L410Turbolet wrote:

Braybuddy wrote:

petertenthije wrote:

It would be nice to see some better designs though. The current euro designs are quite bland, in particular the notes.

I tend to agree, but IIRC the winning designs were chosen by a committee made up of the EU central banks, so it's probably not surprising . It wouldn't cost anything to change them:

Using the example of airline liveries: any attempts to improve designs tend to end up looking worse than they were before.

With a few exceptions I wouldn't disagree. Lufthansa managed to pull it off. But it was replacing something so dated it probably wasn't difficult. Aer Lingus tried something similar and made a mess of it.

L410Turbolet wrote:

Last but not least: Any involvement of real people will inevitably cause counting of sexes, intense scrutiny of what they said (or didn't say) 60, 120 or 600 years ago, even more intense scrutiny of their alleged transgressions against today's standards, predictable whining of those not happy with underrepresentation of ethnicities and/or religions, etc., etc.

Probably the biggest benefits of the euro here in Ireland were (1) we didn't have the occasional devaluations that we had with the Irish pound, and (2) when going outside Europe (and a few select countries) we didn't have to change our money twice anymore. We usually had to buy US dollars before going most other countries, and then change them into local currencies, being hit by the cost of two exchanges instead of one. Credit cards did away with a lot of that, but still in a lot of places you need to have cash.

johns624 wrote:

A101 wrote:

We’ll isolation and size was never going to change, if you felt that NZ was to small you had the option of staying a colonial colony of the UK

How uncouth of you to mention "colony"! The PC term is British Overseas Territory.
PS-What's a colonial colony?

No PC terms back in in the 1800’s

johns624 wrote:

PS-What's a colonial colony?

Brain fart at the time when I wrote that in a hurry was reading a book not long who in which reference colonial Australia/New Zealand before Dominion status as self governing nation

A101 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

A101 wrote:

We’ll isolation and size was never going to change, if you felt that NZ was to small you had the option of staying a colonial colony of the UK

How uncouth of you to mention "colony"! The PC term is British Overseas Territory.
PS-What's a colonial colony?

No PC terms back in in the 1800’s

johns624 wrote:

PS-What's a colonial colony?

Brain fart at the time when I wrote that in a hurry was reading a book not long who in which reference colonial Australia/New Zealand before Dominion status as self governing nation

I was just messing with you. I was recently in the most populous BOT--Bermuda. It wasn't as British feeling as I thought it would be. I still want to get to the Falklands. I got interested in them through the war in 1982.

johns624 wrote:

A101 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

How uncouth of you to mention "colony"! The PC term is British Overseas Territory.
PS-What's a colonial colony?

No PC terms back in in the 1800’s

johns624 wrote:

PS-What's a colonial colony?

Brain fart at the time when I wrote that in a hurry was reading a book not long who in which reference colonial Australia/New Zealand before Dominion status as self governing nation

I was just messing with you. I was recently in the most populous BOT--Bermuda. It wasn't as British feeling as I thought it would be. I still want to get to the Falklands. I got interested in them through the war in 1982.

Yes I know all in good fun

einsteinboricua wrote:

Unlike Sweden, both are nowhere near ready to adopt the currency; Sweden is, except for ERM2 membership, but that's voluntary so no EU institution can force Sweden to enter (and technically, that also extends to all members without an opt-out).

Don't think anybody wants Sweden in Euro's, their beer price would cause heart attacks all round. At least today you can decide to just stick to krona and be ignorant of the actual price.

So that immediately is a big plus for the Euro. Pricing is far less confusing.

I don't miss any of the old currencies. Nor do I feel the different currencies in the past had any additional value. You really don't need Marks, Francs, Guldens, Lire's or whatever to know what country you're in.
I even find it a bit annoying that some countries don't use the Euro yet, while they could. It's unneeded hassle. Don't undestand why people can be sentimental about their currency...

The notes are due for redesign will be interesting to see who wins out .


Euro banknote artist fears redesign could spark rivalry

Twenty years after arriving in Europeans' wallets, euro banknotes will get a new look with help from the public, a process officials hope will make citizens feel closer to the single currency.

But the Austrian artist behind the original banknotes fears the redesign could spark national rivalries, something he painstakingly tried to avoid with neutral illustrations the first time around.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1269012/


Personally Id like to see historic European landmarks from all member states on the notes which are currently generic boring monopoly money . Maybe each member could vote for one then each note could have 4 landmarks on . Mind you if the French and German landmarks were not on the highest denomination then war could ensue lol

OA260 wrote:

Personally Id like to see historic European landmarks from all member states on the notes which are currently generic boring monopoly money . Maybe each member could vote for one then each note could have 4 landmarks on . Mind you if the French and German landmarks were not on the highest denomination then war could ensue lol

That brings up an interesting question. How many landmarks would be instantly identifiable to people from other countries? France has the Eiffel Tower, Italy the Coliseum, Greece the Parthenon, then what? I know I'm missing some, but still...

johns624 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Personally Id like to see historic European landmarks from all member states on the notes which are currently generic boring monopoly money . Maybe each member could vote for one then each note could have 4 landmarks on . Mind you if the French and German landmarks were not on the highest denomination then war could ensue lol

That brings up an interesting question. How many landmarks would be instantly identifiable to people from other countries? France has the Eiffel Tower, Italy the Coliseum, Greece the Parthenon, then what? I know I'm missing some, but still...

Well I guess it depends on education and how well an individual is at geography. The Euro coins were to be generic but thank god at the time certain member states pushed back and a national symbol was allowed. Although some boring members chose the same symbol for each coin but smarter members like Austria,Italy and Greece actually took pride in their designs.

Belgium is so boring they should have put Tin Tin on them! When you think of the rich history and culture of many members it was an opportunity lost . Ireland is another boring one. The harp was good for the €2 coin but so many Celtic designs would have been great contenders for the others .

The coins often spark interest and conversations on where they are from and you instantly notice a new design when it marks a national event . The notes would not be able to do that but the new ones could be a topic of conversation and indeed bring people closer to the currency if they had a decent design.

OA260 wrote:

Personally Id like to see historic European landmarks from all member states on the notes which are currently generic boring monopoly money . Maybe each member could vote for one then each note could have 4 landmarks on . Mind you if the French and German landmarks were not on the highest denomination then war could ensue lol

Well, the ECB can always mandate each eurozone member to mint a €2 coin with a landmark each member wants to highlight. The idea of the banknotes is to make it generic and long lasting (suppose Bulgaria and Croatia join the eurozone next year but their landmarks don't make it to the final cut...).

Maybe for this they can either pick wildlife or historic events/achievements from the continent (like the invention of the telescope or colonial ships, for the age of exploration, or quills and paper, for the age of enlightenment).

einsteinboricua wrote:

Maybe for this they can either pick wildlife or historic events/achievements from the continent (like the invention of the telescope or colonial ships, for the age of exploration, or quills and paper, for the age of enlightenment).

Battle of Waterloo...

As I recall, if you flew over to AMS, most Brasses in the windows would cost you 50 Gilders, overnight they changed their price to 50 Euros .!!! FFS, robbing bitches.. that was around 100% mark up for the same ass.!!!

Aesma wrote:

I was 18 at the time, I remember it was a change of course, but not a difficult one,

For some reason, I thought you and I were closer in age. I was 24 on that day, and I was visiting a friend who had a chalet in Switzerland, just on the border with France. I was impressed with how smoothly it went, especially because the Swiss, of course, did not change from their Franc. It was definitely a historic occasion and one I was glad to have witnessed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstal ... 36a5636063

Here are the theoretical problems as outlined by economists from far different schools. The sufferings inflicted upon Spain, Italy, and Greece are well explained. By the way, the Euro is not necessary for the Common Market. Agreed upon currency valuations, and a mechanism for asymmetrical devaluations can be negotiated.

Somehow I miss the Guldens, the Francs, the Schilling, and... especially the Lira. It brought a certain touch to every travel abroad. For the Lira, you had to bring a big wallet...

Switzerland has accepted the Euro as payment nearly everywhere. You will lose a few percent, though, but ticket vending machines and supermarkets all accept the Euro. So that has been neat for tourists.

Still during 2009 or so, I paid about 1.65 CHF for an Euro. Now, it's 1.04 CHF. Travelling in the EU has become a lot cheaper since then.

For everyone wishing for a uniform NA currency, it is important to remember that a lot of countries already use the US dollar for their official currency including Panama, Ecuador, El Salvador, and a bunch of Caribbean islands. That is not even including all the places that peg their currency to the US dollar

johns624 wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I could maybe see Canada but Mexico's economy is too different (and screwed up) to include them in it.

Meh, buying my cerveza and tacos without having to switch currencies is much more interesting than the whole economics of it all

As long as I can get my Timmy's and Molson's, eh?

The correct Canadian beer is Moosehead.

DocLightning wrote:

Aesma wrote:

I was 18 at the time, I remember it was a change of course, but not a difficult one,

For some reason, I thought you and I were closer in age. I was 24 on that day, and I was visiting a friend who had a chalet in Switzerland, just on the border with France. I was impressed with how smoothly it went, especially because the Swiss, of course, did not change from their Franc. It was definitely a historic occasion and one I was glad to have witnessed.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/09/11/the-euro-is-a-disaster-stiglitz-krugman-milton-friedman-and-james-tobin-agree/?sh=6236a5636063

Here are the theoretical problems as outlined by economists from far different schools. The sufferings inflicted upon Spain, Italy, and Greece are well explained. By the way, the Euro is not necessary for the Common Market. Agreed upon currency valuations, and a mechanism for asymmetrical devaluations can be negotiated.

It has been mentioned that the US dollar is used by many countries (some also use the Euro in the same way), but aside from that, the US dollar is used by 50 US states, which are quite varied in their economies, taxation, cost of living, and somehow it works. In fact there are EU regulations (laws) that make EU countries closer in many aspects than US states.

stl07 wrote:

For everyone wishing for a uniform NA currency, it is important to remember that a lot of countries already use the US dollar for their official currency including Panama, Ecuador, El Salvador, and a bunch of Caribbean islands. That is not even including all the places that peg their currency to the US dollar

That's not the same, though.

For starters, the US (through the Fed) is the one making monetary decisions for the dollar, not a collective group of nations or an authority set up by all the users. Second, if any of those countries wishes to reintroduce their own currency, the dollar isn't affected because the strength of the dollar doesn't come from the economic confidence of all its users. And finally, countries with currencies pegged to the dollar can either revaluate their peg or let it float with a tolerable range to address economic conditions without relying on the anchor currency's economy.

Panama's balboa is a strict peg; it's always a 1:1 ratio. Hong Kong's dollar is at a band: $7.75-$7.85HKD/USD (and countries in the ERM2 mechanism are allowed a band though ideally the exchange rate should remain static). And then you have currencies that are, in practice but not officially, pegged to the US dollar like the Gulf monarchies which are pegged to the IMF's SDR's basket of currencies and translates to a dollar peg (like Kuwait's dinar at about $3.30/KWD).

All three of these scenarios have countries which are happy to anchor their currencies to a heavyweight but have the ability to break the link if needed. Countries in a currency union or using another currency have no such flexibility (the latter, maybe just a tad more).

Aesma wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

Aesma wrote:

I was 18 at the time, I remember it was a change of course, but not a difficult one,

For some reason, I thought you and I were closer in age. I was 24 on that day, and I was visiting a friend who had a chalet in Switzerland, just on the border with France. I was impressed with how smoothly it went, especially because the Swiss, of course, did not change from their Franc. It was definitely a historic occasion and one I was glad to have witnessed.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/09/11/the-euro-is-a-disaster-stiglitz-krugman-milton-friedman-and-james-tobin-agree/?sh=6236a5636063

Here are the theoretical problems as outlined by economists from far different schools. The sufferings inflicted upon Spain, Italy, and Greece are well explained. By the way, the Euro is not necessary for the Common Market. Agreed upon currency valuations, and a mechanism for asymmetrical devaluations can be negotiated.

It has been mentioned that the US dollar is used by many countries (some also use the Euro in the same way), but aside from that, the US dollar is used by 50 US states, which are quite varied in their economies, taxation, cost of living, and somehow it works. In fact there are EU regulations (laws) that make EU countries closer in many aspects than US states.

But via Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and other social net programs there are built in leveling of low income and higher income sections of the US economy. The Euro zone has far fewer, even almost none.

Airstud wrote:

johns624 wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

Meh, buying my cerveza and tacos without having to switch currencies is much more interesting than the whole economics of it all

As long as I can get my Timmy's and Molson's, eh?

The correct Canadian beer is Moosehead.

The correct Canadian beers were Cinci and Old Vienna.

johns624 wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

I just wish Canada, Mexico and the US would come up with the same thing.

I could maybe see Canada but Mexico's economy is too different (and screwed up) to include them in it.

From what I've seen, Canada would not want such a move. They really value their freedom and Independence, and already feel too much coupling with the US, especially after the previous US administration.

B777LRF wrote:

Agree wholeheartedly that certain southern European countries should not have been let in from the start, and should only have been admitted based on honest and open data. Didn’t personally affect me, but did have very detrimental effects on many people living in those countries. One might put forward the cynical argument it was their own damn fault, and their own corrupt structures, which brought them there. And it would be a fair critique too, but perhaps not so much for the average Jose, Leonardo or Dimitris, who were sent up shyte creek without a paddle by their governments.

I'm not sure if that would have resulted in a better outcome for them since it's pretty clear the Southern Euro would have collapsed. It would have made Pierre and Fritz a bit better off though.

Braybuddy wrote:

With a few exceptions I wouldn't disagree. Lufthansa managed to pull it off. But it was replacing something so dated it probably wasn't difficult. Aer Lingus tried something similar and made a mess of it.

Two words: World Tails.

johns624 wrote:

Airstud wrote:

johns624 wrote:

As long as I can get my Timmy's and Molson's, eh?

The correct Canadian beer is Moosehead.

The correct Canadian beers were Cinci and Old Vienna.

Back when I imbibed, I thought Labatt's Blue made a nice change up from the normal swill. I also prefered Molson beer to the much more common golden ale. These days I have decided to stop doing my best to trash the kidney and liver.

Revelation wrote:

johns624 wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

I just wish Canada, Mexico and the US would come up with the same thing.

I could maybe see Canada but Mexico's economy is too different (and screwed up) to include them in it.

From what I've seen, Canada would not want such a move. They really value their freedom and Independence, and already feel too much coupling with the US, especially after the previous US administration.

Oh, I know Canada wouldn't like it. I'm just saying that Canada is a lot closer economically to the US than Mexico is.

Whenever I am in Italy and I want to know the price, I always ask with a twinkle in my eye "quante Lire costa questo". It always elicits a broad smile and an enthusiastic response; the reply given is in Euros, of course, but they use "Lira" so if it's €25, they'll say "verticinque lire"

I do a similar thing in rural France and say Francs, but it's only older people who do the same thing. Younger people just look at me like I am an English idiot.

I started traveling to Europe in 1998 and got use to the old currencies. Bought with US dollars. I remember when the Euro started being actively used in 2002 prices went up in countries that use to be cheaper. (Especially when using US dollars to buy Euros) Countries like Spain and Germany became more expensive for me. Spain use to be super cheap, especially when the dollar was strong pre-911.

I’ve spent the majority of my time in Berlin, and prices there increased too when the DM was replaced. Seems like prices in countries using the Euro have all stabilized. No country is cheaper than another.

I miss the old individual currencies! Especially when bought with a strong American dollar. The last time I was living in Europe in 2009, I had to spend $1.65 USD to buy 1 Euro! It sucked! I think it takes about $1.10 USD to buy a Euro now? Better than it was ten years ago, but my USD dollars are still weak in Europe.

You’d be surprised how strong the US$ is.
I remember walking into a travel agent in Shiraz Iran, and buying 2 tickets, one for a Tu154, and One for a ride on a Saha 707.
All for around $60 US.
Best 60 bucks I’ve ever spent.!

The relationship between the euro & dollar has varied depending on the strength of each economy, as it should have, but other factors also play a role. All the money printing going on both sides of the Atlantic should have led to them staying relatively stable against each other, or the USD weakening because there is more money printing, more lowering of taxes, more deficit (especially before COVID), on the US side, yet the opposite has happened.