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A101
Posts: 2840
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:12 pm

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default ... inated.pdf

ATAGI advice on the definition of fully vaccinated; for international travers

The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) have advised that for the purposes of people returning from overseas travel, those individuals who are considered fully vaccinated against COVID- 19 are those who:

Past SARS-CoV-2 infection
COVID-19 vaccination in people who have had PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection can be deferred for a maximum of six months after the acute illness, as a temporary exemption due to acute major medical illness.

However, people with laboratory confirmation of past infection can start their vaccination course, or complete the second dose, if they have already had a first dose prior to being infected by SARS-CoV-2 as soon as they have recovered from the symptomatic infection. The minimum interval requirement between the two doses must still be met.

Individuals who have prolonged symptoms from COVID-19 beyond six months after acute infection can be vaccinated on a case-by-case basis, in line with the information above (i.e. it is generally recommended to be fully recovered from past SARS-CoV-2 infection, however some circumstances may warrant individual assessment).

ATAGI notes serological testing or other testing to detect current or previous infection with SARS-CoV-2 before vaccination is neither necessary nor recommended before vaccination.





So my reading is he need at least 1 jab to comply; yes/no?
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:51 pm

What has being super healthy have to do with it?
It didn’t stop him from getting it twice according to documents

Djokovic doctor lashes visa decisions

Dr Igor Cetojevic, a Bosnian-born Serb who lives in Cyprus who is widely credited with helping Djokovic to the top of his game by implementing a strict diet, called out the Australian government for being worried about the risk a "super healthy" Djokovic posed. It's absurd that somebody who has optimal health is a threat to the health of the public," Dr Igor Cetojevic, told AFP.
"How can a super healthy guy be a threat for the Australian Open," the 60-year-old doctor said, laughing out loud.
"It's all politics, it starts with politics, not anything else," said Cetojevic, who describes himself as a qualified medical doctor who uses energetical medicine, Chinese medicine and a holistic approach to healing.
The doctor claimed Djokovic had every right to be hesitant about getting the vaccine and that his performance would "definitely" be harmed if he was to be vaccinated.
"These so-called vaccines are, in fact, experimental products that have not been clinically proven.
"I'm seeing patients these days, ordinary people who followed the recommendation to be injected, who are now facing major health issues.
"The whole idea is to provoke the body's immune system, but... we are all different. Some people have different reactions.
"If you have the best car for Formula One and you put the wrong petrol inside, what will happen?" the doctor added.
"He respects himself, he is aware and a smart person and he learns from his mistakes and he also from good choices. Luckily, meeting me 10 years ago, his life changed."


 
cpd
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:04 pm

A101 wrote:
What has being super healthy have to do with it?
It didn’t stop him from getting it twice according to documents

Djokovic doctor lashes visa decisions

Dr Igor Cetojevic, a Bosnian-born Serb who lives in Cyprus who is widely credited with helping Djokovic to the top of his game by implementing a strict diet, called out the Australian government for being worried about the risk a "super healthy" Djokovic posed. It's absurd that somebody who has optimal health is a threat to the health of the public," Dr Igor Cetojevic, told AFP.
"How can a super healthy guy be a threat for the Australian Open," the 60-year-old doctor said, laughing out loud.
"It's all politics, it starts with politics, not anything else," said Cetojevic, who describes himself as a qualified medical doctor who uses energetical medicine, Chinese medicine and a holistic approach to healing.
The doctor claimed Djokovic had every right to be hesitant about getting the vaccine and that his performance would "definitely" be harmed if he was to be vaccinated.
"These so-called vaccines are, in fact, experimental products that have not been clinically proven.
"I'm seeing patients these days, ordinary people who followed the recommendation to be injected, who are now facing major health issues.
"The whole idea is to provoke the body's immune system, but... we are all different. Some people have different reactions.
"If you have the best car for Formula One and you put the wrong petrol inside, what will happen?" the doctor added.
"He respects himself, he is aware and a smart person and he learns from his mistakes and he also from good choices. Luckily, meeting me 10 years ago, his life changed."




I'm sick and tired of all these stupid excuses. Super healthy people can get very sick from Covid and they can spread it. I'm super healthy as well, and I got vaccinated - I didn't get sick from it, aside from 1-2 days of feeling a little bit off.

On the flip side, I know other extremely fit people (more than me) who got Covid and are struggling to get their fitness back to where it was over the period of about a month or so.

I also hear some elite sports people that are worried about getting ill or death from complications of the vaccine, but this never stopped some elite athletes from taking harmful and illegal stuff to improve their performance.


A101 wrote:
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/12/atagi-advice-on-the-definition-of-fully-vaccinated.pdf
So my reading is he need at least 1 jab to comply; yes/no?


I read it as still needing two doses. They are talking about intervals between them and when you can have a dose after illness.
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:09 pm

A101 wrote:
A lot of inconsistencies when it came to exemptions advice. How did the body come to the conclusion he could be exempt when it was back as far as 28/9/21 that the ATAGI was

As of 9 September, the Australia Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation’s (ATAGI) guidelines state that while past COVID-19 infection is not a contraindication to vaccination, it ‘can be deferred for up to six months after the acute illness


https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinic ... -exemption

That is the form ABF was looking for or a record on AIR.

I imagine what that referred to is if you have started your vaccinations and before you have received your 2nd the rule would apply.

That’s my take


The guidelines are there to help doctors filling out the vaccine medical exemption form, it is not a stand alone document.

The medical exemption form can be downloaded here https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/si ... 12en-f.pdf

In that form a person can only have natural immunity from previous infection from Hepatitis B, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Varicella, and the immunity needs to be confirmed through antigen testing. Antigen tests for C19 are normally a blood test, not a PCR test, from blood test they can determine the antigen level in the blood, and the level needs to be above 50 to be considered vaccinated for C19.

People may get a temporary exemption from vaccination to defer the vaccination, on the form
It says

“ In what circumstances should a vaccine be temporarily deferred?
There are some circumstances where the administration of a vaccine should be deferred. These include:
• acute major medical condition
• significantly impaired immune function that is anticipated to be of short duration
• pregnancy (for live attenuated vaccines only).
While vaccination should be deferred in persons with acute febrile illness (current T ≥38.5°C) or other self-limiting acute systemic illness, this would usually be for short periods only and not require completion of this form. For detailed advice check The Australian Immunisation Handbook.”

The term “acute major medical condition”, means something that has resulted in being hospitalised. The other relates to having a fever.

Vaccination was never meant to be deferred for a recovered asymptomatic C19 case like NJ had. The court documents said he said he was fully recovered. He would not have been able to travel is unwell with C19.

Australia has a slightly different system where the states deliver medicine and the federal government sets the policy, pays for, and maintains the records. All vaccines and vaccine exemptions delivered by the states are recorded on the Australian Immunisation Register (AIR). This happens automatically when people see a doctor in Australia, their practice software automatically uploads things like vaccination records to AIR.

To prove vaccination status people get either digital or paper certificates from the records held in the AIR. The states do not do this. Exemption certificates are also kept in the AIR, and people show a digital or paper version of that when required just like a vaccination certificate.

A letter from TA is not a valid exemption, they could have made it valid by filling out the form and uploading to AIR, however he did not meet the criteria on the form. So a doctor would have committed an offence if they did that.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:52 am

I do not like the chances of AusGov against novax, as it seem that they are not fighting on procedural grounds more of character grounds

Well stay tuned I guess he will either win or lose that’s the only thing guaranteed

https://www.9news.com.au/national/novak ... 09a6d76d09
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:47 am

Well they might be on to something :stirthepot:


https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 5c856c1c75

Protesters have taken to the streets in Sydney and Melbourne today to march against vaccinations and tennis star Novak Djokovic's second visa cancellation.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:12 am

Novak is being a good ambassador to Serbia, as we can see with the country's president remarks...
 
889091
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:39 pm

A101 wrote:
Well they might be on to something :stirthepot:


https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 5c856c1c75

Protesters have taken to the streets in Sydney and Melbourne today to march against vaccinations and tennis star Novak Djokovic's second visa cancellation.


Pretty ironic, considering the reason for his visa being cancelled a second time:
"In court filings, Australia has cast Djokovic as a figurehead for anti-vaxxers and a catalyst for potential “civil unrest” who must be removed in the public interest."

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/au ... e63644b05b
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:01 pm

Trying to find the live link for today hearing, does anyone know it?

Thanks in advance
 
889091
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:23 pm

 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:01 am

889091 wrote:


Watching the hearing on the above. What strikes me is that the judges look painfully bored by Novak's advocate's advocacy. Do federal judges usually look painfully bored by advocates' advocacy? Perhaps it's just a very boring case legally.
 
889091
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:10 am

art wrote:
889091 wrote:


Watching the hearing on the above. What strikes me is that the judges look painfully bored by Novak's advocate's advocacy. Do federal judges usually look painfully bored by advocates' advocacy? Perhaps it's just a very boring case legally.


Team Novak's strategy - pick apart every single paragraph of Team Oz's submission..... I'm surprised they are not arguing that the document has not been printed in Arial 10pt font..... :D

Novak's lawyer is being very repetitious - he even admitted it himself...Having said that, he does raise some interesting points, considering that they (Novak's legal team) only had ~36 hrs to prepare for this.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:29 am

Asking out of ignorance of Australian precedent. The rule apparently is the Minister doesn’t need to have a good reason, only a reason, correct? He apparently has a lot of latitude in that regard. So the court will only be asked did the Minister have a reason. Their soundest argument will be Djokovic’s own admission of not following protocol.
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:33 am

luckyone wrote:
Asking out of ignorance of Australian precedent. The rule apparently is the Minister doesn’t need to have a good reason, only a reason, correct? He apparently has a lot of latitude in that regard. So the court will only be asked did the Minister have a reason. Their soundest argument will be Djokovic’s own admission of not following protocol.


They need to have grounds, and the minister has given his grounds based upon public interest.

Personally I think the process by NJ as being dishonest, they applied for the visa in Oct/Nov, and they knew they needed to be vaccinated to enter Australia.

One cannot plan on getting infected, recover, and gain an exemption. The only way to have a plan to be in Australia in January fully vaccinated (to comply with Australian law) would have required the first immunisation 10 weeks before arrival, second dose 8 weeks later, then a 14 day wait.

That would have been mid October.

This would have been a very different response from the Australian government if he had his first injection in October, second mid December. He might not even have tested positive then.

Doesn’t matter how you look at it it was a sham arrangement with no real attempt to comply with Australian law.
 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:37 am

If Novak's challenge to the ministerial decision succeeds and Novak plays, what are the chances of spectators opposed to Novak's presence interfering with play on court to the point where the match would have to be abandoned? A handful of people with views on proper insulation for houses (climate agenda) superglued themselves to major roads in England, preventing traffic moving. What are the prospects of direct action against matches in which Novak is involved? It sounds like a lot of Australians are quite incensed that he is in the country.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:15 am

I am a dual national of both the UK & AU, all the people I have spoken to about this are not happy and want to see him on the 1st plane out of here.

The feeling that I get and from others is it was set up between novax and the elites at Tennis Australia who had to have novax at all costs.

There is a perception that if you have status and money you can game the system which he is obviously doing.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:38 am

A roll-call of celebrities & others who were either barred/deported from Australia, or who have had trouble getting in...

https://www.theage.com.au/national/rapp ... 1642306482

Djoker is in interesting company...
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:00 am

Federal Court hands down its ruling - Novak to be deported

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/au ... e63644b05b
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:27 am

Bugger I missed the judgement, but dismissed with costs

Woo-hoo be a lot of happy people in Oz tonight

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/Feder ... nt/1890165

Was hoping to get the judgement transcript but not up yet

https://www.comcourts.gov.au/file/FEDER ... order_list
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:45 am

qf789 wrote:
Federal Court hands down its ruling - Novak to be deported

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/au ... e63644b05b


The correct decision in my opinion

From the article

“The decision was unanimous and full reasons will be published at a later date. Djokovic was ordered to pay costs.

The cost of the hearings would be very high.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:00 am

zeke wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Federal Court hands down its ruling - Novak to be deported

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/au ... e63644b05b


The correct decision in my opinion

From the article

“The decision was unanimous and full reasons will be published at a later date. Djokovic was ordered to pay costs.

The cost of the hearings would be very high.


I heard the 1st hearing cost the AusGov 500000AUD
 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:15 am

What happens if you don't have the cash on you to pay the costs - do you have to stick around until payment has been made?
Last edited by art on Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:18 am

Would it have been easier to not play in the first place knowing he had to be vaccinated?
 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:38 am

Next big tournament is apparently Indian Wells in California. As it happens, you need to be vaccinated to take part (according to BBC news).

I wonder if you need to be vaccinated to play in the other 3 majors. If so, it does not look like Novak will get the opportunity to secure a 21st major win this year.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:01 am

art wrote:
What happens if you don't have the cash on you to pay the costs - do you have to stick around until payment has been made?


That’s an interesting question, I have no idea

I did notice he had three QC’s in the video frame that Amit cheap, I think a good QC is about $1500 per hour

Hope the AusGov makes him pay the call out fee for the quick hearing of the federal court judge’s on a weekend
 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:02 am

Aesma wrote:
Novak is being a good ambassador to Serbia, as we can see with the country's president remarks...


[irony]Yes, this Djokovic affair has done a power of good for the image of Serbia, hasn't it?[/irony]

"Humiliated are those people who organised this kind of witch hunt." - president of Serbia in interview with BBC.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:37 am

Djokovic and his team would be wise to bring in house somebody to better manage some of his affairs. He clearly has enough “yes” men. He needs a slight contrarian. Time and time again he’s failed to read the room. Now it’s truly cost him. IMHO it’s arrogance and a lack of willingness to listen to a voice other than a flattering one. Then again when your zealous father compared you to Christ why wouldn’t your ego get a bit fluffed.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to the inevitable questions moving forward. The French Open has stated that he will be welcome to play.

Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were. Whether they were hoping the public wouldn’t notice or care (Djoker’s Instagram post proved otherwise), or just fumbled the ball and were able to recover it remains to be seen. What is known is that the visa was automatically approved and various agencies didn’t communicate well.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:39 am

art wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Novak is being a good ambassador to Serbia, as we can see with the country's president remarks...


[irony]Yes, this Djokovic affair has done a power of good for the image of Serbia, hasn't it?[/irony]

"Humiliated are those people who organised this kind of witch hunt." - president of Serbia in interview with BBC.


He also claimed that Novax had been “tortured and tormented” and “treated like a mass murderer” and he has no doubt this is all because Novax is Serbian. :sarcastic:

The more interesting question now is, where does this leave Novax in respect of all the other major tournaments?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:42 am

luckyone wrote:
Djokovic and his team would be wise to bring in house somebody to better manage some of his affairs. He clearly has enough “yes” men. He needs a slight contrarian. Time and time again he’s failed to read the room. Now it’s truly cost him. IMHO it’s arrogance and a lack of willingness to listen to a voice other than a flattering one. Then again when your zealous father compared you to Christ why wouldn’t your ego get a bit fluffed.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to the inevitable questions moving forward. The French Open has stated that he will be welcome to play.

Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were. Whether they were hoping the public wouldn’t notice or care (Djoker’s Instagram post proved otherwise), or just fumbled the ball and were able to recover it remains to be seen. What is known is that the visa was automatically approved and various agencies didn’t communicate well.


Or maybe he should just get vaccinated?

I’m not sure the French Open will have a say in whether he’s allowed to enter France unvaccinated.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:53 am

[quote="A101"][/quote]

A very expensive 10 days for him, having to cough up for 3 Silks, 3 juniors & the instructing solicitors.....

He's booked on EK 409 leaving at 10.30pm. Was in one of the MEL international lounges under Federal Police guard.

https://twitter.com/shanemcinnes/status ... s%3A%2F%2F

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59oje.html
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:01 am

melpax wrote:

A very expensive 10 days for him, having to cough up for 3 Silks, 3 juniors & the instructing solicitors.....


He has to pay both sides and court costs


melpax wrote:
He's booked on EK 409 leaving at 10.30pm. Was in one of the MEL international lounges under Federal Police guard.

https://twitter.com/shanemcinnes/status ... s%3A%2F%2F

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59oje.html


The “escort” has a pretty authentic looking police uniform
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:14 am

luckyone wrote:
Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were.


I don’t have a problem with the visa issue, and it was made clear what the requirements were back in oct/Nov when the visa was applied for and granted. There was time for him to get vaccinated.

“ Only vaccinated players allowed to compete in Australian Open, Daniel Andrews warns

The Victorian premier says unvaccinated tennis players won't be granted an exemption to enter the state from overseas to take part in the Australian Open, even if they spend two weeks in hotel quarantine.”

From https://amp.sbs.com.au/eds/news/article ... 7d3e?amp=1

“The Australian Open Will Require All Players to Be Vaccinated, And Novak Djokovic’s Status Remains Unclear”

From https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagori ... clear/amp/

“ Australian Open director Craig Tiley confirms players must be vaccinated to take part in 2022 tournament”

From https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100636586
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:29 am

scbriml wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Djokovic and his team would be wise to bring in house somebody to better manage some of his affairs. He clearly has enough “yes” men. He needs a slight contrarian. Time and time again he’s failed to read the room. Now it’s truly cost him. IMHO it’s arrogance and a lack of willingness to listen to a voice other than a flattering one. Then again when your zealous father compared you to Christ why wouldn’t your ego get a bit fluffed.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to the inevitable questions moving forward. The French Open has stated that he will be welcome to play.

Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were. Whether they were hoping the public wouldn’t notice or care (Djoker’s Instagram post proved otherwise), or just fumbled the ball and were able to recover it remains to be seen. What is known is that the visa was automatically approved and various agencies didn’t communicate well.


Or maybe he should just get vaccinated?

I’m not sure the French Open will have a say in whether he’s allowed to enter France unvaccinated.

With that I agree. He was ultimately the root cause of his own misfortune. Having said that, I also think that if he doesn’t want the shot AND is willing to accept all the limitations that accompany that decision, the decision is his. But here he tried to have his cake and eat it too. And that’s ultimately my biggest source of annoyance and irritation with this whole debacle. Djokovic is not an Australian citizen. He has no rights or privileges in Australia. Whether we like it or not, we exist in other countries at their favor. If we don’t like their rules we don’t have to go.
Last edited by luckyone on Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:30 am

zeke wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were.


I don’t have a problem with the visa issue, and it was made clear what the requirements were back in oct/Nov when the visa was applied for and granted. There was time for him to get vaccinated.

“ Only vaccinated players allowed to compete in Australian Open, Daniel Andrews warns

The Victorian premier says unvaccinated tennis players won't be granted an exemption to enter the state from overseas to take part in the Australian Open, even if they spend two weeks in hotel quarantine.”

From https://amp.sbs.com.au/eds/news/article ... 7d3e?amp=1

“The Australian Open Will Require All Players to Be Vaccinated, And Novak Djokovic’s Status Remains Unclear”

From https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagori ... clear/amp/

“ Australian Open director Craig Tiley confirms players must be vaccinated to take part in 2022 tournament”

From https://amp.abc.net.au/article/100636586

In theory I understand that it was granted with the assumption that the player could and would be able to justify their vaccination. What grates on me is that he clearly had no intention of doing that (application was November, the whole world now knows his positive test was in December), yet still applied. Who was telling him that would be acceptable? What other workaround had been discussed.
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:41 am

Someone has posted Djoker's flight details on Twitter.

Will go without saying that he will get a hero's reception on arrival in BEG...

https://twitter.com/football_roos/statu ... 51/photo/1
 
GDB
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:56 am

scbriml wrote:
art wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Novak is being a good ambassador to Serbia, as we can see with the country's president remarks...


[irony]Yes, this Djokovic affair has done a power of good for the image of Serbia, hasn't it?[/irony]

"Humiliated are those people who organised this kind of witch hunt." - president of Serbia in interview with BBC.


He also claimed that Novax had been “tortured and tormented” and “treated like a mass murderer” and he has no doubt this is all because Novax is Serbian. :sarcastic:

The more interesting question now is, where does this leave Novax in respect of all the other major tournaments?


Given their history including recent, they don’t do irony do they?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:45 pm

luckyone wrote:
scbriml wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Djokovic and his team would be wise to bring in house somebody to better manage some of his affairs. He clearly has enough “yes” men. He needs a slight contrarian. Time and time again he’s failed to read the room. Now it’s truly cost him. IMHO it’s arrogance and a lack of willingness to listen to a voice other than a flattering one. Then again when your zealous father compared you to Christ why wouldn’t your ego get a bit fluffed.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to the inevitable questions moving forward. The French Open has stated that he will be welcome to play.

Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were. Whether they were hoping the public wouldn’t notice or care (Djoker’s Instagram post proved otherwise), or just fumbled the ball and were able to recover it remains to be seen. What is known is that the visa was automatically approved and various agencies didn’t communicate well.


Or maybe he should just get vaccinated?

I’m not sure the French Open will have a say in whether he’s allowed to enter France unvaccinated.

With that I agree. He was ultimately the root cause of his own misfortune. Having said that, I also think that if he doesn’t want the shot AND is willing to accept all the limitations that accompany that decision, the decision is his. But here he tried to have his cake and eat it too. And that’s ultimately my biggest source of annoyance and irritation with this whole debacle. Djokovic is not an Australian citizen. He has no rights or privileges in Australia. Whether we like it or not, we exist in other countries at their favor. If we don’t like their rules we don’t have to go.


Spot on. He has the right to chose to not be vaccinated, but he also has to understand that his choice has consequences. If he objects to Australia's rules around Covid and vaccination, he had the option to not go.

That said, I don't think this was a good look for Australia. I feel they arrived at the correct destination but the journey to get there was a bit embarrassing.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 20742
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:48 pm

GDB wrote:
Given their history including recent, they don’t do irony do they?


Ouch, you went there! :rotfl:
 
luckyone
Topic Author
Posts: 4321
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:56 pm

GDB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
art wrote:

[irony]Yes, this Djokovic affair has done a power of good for the image of Serbia, hasn't it?[/irony]

"Humiliated are those people who organised this kind of witch hunt." - president of Serbia in interview with BBC.


He also claimed that Novax had been “tortured and tormented” and “treated like a mass murderer” and he has no doubt this is all because Novax is Serbian. :sarcastic:

The more interesting question now is, where does this leave Novax in respect of all the other major tournaments?


Given their history including recent, they don’t do irony do they?

Game. Set. Match. Lock the thread.
 
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zeke
Posts: 17158
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:11 pm

luckyone wrote:
Who was telling him that would be acceptable? What other workaround had been discussed.


From a total outsiders point of view it has the appearance of collusion by persons at the highest level in TA to bypass border entry requirements.

I think correspondence with TA needs to be looked at, and the timing of this independent expert medical panel. I am very uneasy with this, the TA is in the press mid November saying all players will be vaccinated, and then this panel is formed just weeks later.


melpax wrote:
Someone has posted Djoker's flight details on Twitter.

Will go without saying that he will get a hero's reception on arrival in BEG...

https://twitter.com/football_roos/statu ... 51/photo/1



Didn’t take long for the tweet to be deleted.
 
art
Posts: 4641
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:53 pm

luckyone wrote:
Game. Set. Match. Lock the thread.


It might be an idea to wait a couple of weeks. No-one has hit a ball yet!
 
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Aesma
Posts: 15327
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:30 pm

luckyone wrote:
Djokovic and his team would be wise to bring in house somebody to better manage some of his affairs. He clearly has enough “yes” men. He needs a slight contrarian. Time and time again he’s failed to read the room. Now it’s truly cost him. IMHO it’s arrogance and a lack of willingness to listen to a voice other than a flattering one. Then again when your zealous father compared you to Christ why wouldn’t your ego get a bit fluffed.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to the inevitable questions moving forward. The French Open has stated that he will be welcome to play.

Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were. Whether they were hoping the public wouldn’t notice or care (Djoker’s Instagram post proved otherwise), or just fumbled the ball and were able to recover it remains to be seen. What is known is that the visa was automatically approved and various agencies didn’t communicate well.


I haven't found a source for the French Open welcoming him. Just like with Australia, it's not up to tennis authorities to decide health rules. The French legislators just replaced the "COVID passport" that could be valid with a negative test, with a vaccine passport, where only being vaccinated matters. So to be a spectator at the French Open, you will need to be vaccinated. If that passport is still being used in May. Rules could be relaxed if the epidemic has died down of course. Or if Emmanuel Macron is no longer president and the new one removes the restrictions.
 
luckyone
Topic Author
Posts: 4321
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:57 pm

Aesma wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Djokovic and his team would be wise to bring in house somebody to better manage some of his affairs. He clearly has enough “yes” men. He needs a slight contrarian. Time and time again he’s failed to read the room. Now it’s truly cost him. IMHO it’s arrogance and a lack of willingness to listen to a voice other than a flattering one. Then again when your zealous father compared you to Christ why wouldn’t your ego get a bit fluffed.

It will be interesting to see how he responds to the inevitable questions moving forward. The French Open has stated that he will be welcome to play.

Having said that— everyone had egg on their face. The government shouldn’t have issued him a visa in the first place and made clear on all levels what the rules were. Whether they were hoping the public wouldn’t notice or care (Djoker’s Instagram post proved otherwise), or just fumbled the ball and were able to recover it remains to be seen. What is known is that the visa was automatically approved and various agencies didn’t communicate well.


I haven't found a source for the French Open welcoming him. Just like with Australia, it's not up to tennis authorities to decide health rules. The French legislators just replaced the "COVID passport" that could be valid with a negative test, with a vaccine passport, where only being vaccinated matters. So to be a spectator at the French Open, you will need to be vaccinated. If that passport is still being used in May. Rules could be relaxed if the epidemic has died down of course. Or if Emmanuel Macron is no longer president and the new one removes the restrictions.

https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/ ... s-minister

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... am-events/
 
art
Posts: 4641
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:28 pm

I can't see Federer reaching 21 grand slam titles in this tournament.
I can't see Djokovic reaching 21 grand slam titles in this tournament.
In their absence I can see Nadal reaching 21 grand slam titles in this tournament.
He definitely has a chance. If he does not get the all time record here in Melbourne I would say he's in with a hell of a good chance in Paris even if his rivals on 20 grand slam wins play in the French Open. Might even make it 22, leaving Federer and Djokovic trailing way behind. I have put money on him to win the Australian Open. Is that colouring my judgement perhaps?
 
luckyone
Topic Author
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:34 pm

art wrote:
I can't see Federer reaching 21 grand slam titles in this tournament.
I can't see Djokovic reaching 21 grand slam titles in this tournament.
In their absence I can see Nadal reaching 21 grand slam titles in this tournament.
He definitely has a chance. If he does not get the all time record here in Melbourne I would say he's in with a hell of a good chance in Paris even if his rivals on 20 grand slam wins play in the French Open. Might even make it 22, leaving Federer and Djokovic trailing way behind. I have put money on him to win the Australian Open. Is that colouring my judgement perhaps?

While my personal favorite, and should never be counted out, Rafa would surprise me with 21 here. He’s a rhythm player who’s only played three matches in the past six months. He’s in Zverev’s quarter (another potentially dodgy guy). Rafa is much stronger mentally than Zverev who hasn’t done well consistently in best-of-five, but if Zverev’s second serve and nerves are under control that could be a toss up. Medvedev may be the odds on favorite. Having said that, he’s never been the favorite and typically plays better when he’s the adversary.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13967
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
art wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Novak is being a good ambassador to Serbia, as we can see with the country's president remarks...


[irony]Yes, this Djokovic affair has done a power of good for the image of Serbia, hasn't it?[/irony]

"Humiliated are those people who organised this kind of witch hunt." - president of Serbia in interview with BBC.


He also claimed that Novax had been “tortured and tormented” and “treated like a mass murderer” and he has no doubt this is all because Novax is Serbian. :sarcastic:

The more interesting question now is, where does this leave Novax in respect of all the other major tournaments?


The President is a bit of a drama queen, the voters will be lapping it up!
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 3243
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:35 pm

There was a very good video floating around a few days ago explaining ND never had a chance as in order to win, the onus was on him to prove the Minster's opinion was wrong OR the Minister didn't follow procedure. Well after Monday's airport debacle there was no chance of a second stuff up and as for the first point- it's impossible to PROVE another person's opinion is wrong. I'm surprised ND bothered to fight it.
I once knew a judge who told me in court often they're playing solitaire on their computers and only feigning interest after the first 30 minutes.
 
luckyone
Topic Author
Posts: 4321
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:39 pm

eta unknown wrote:
There was a very good video floating around a few days ago explaining ND never had a chance as in order to win, the onus was on him to prove the Minster's opinion was wrong OR the Minister didn't follow procedure. Well after Monday's airport debacle there was no chance of a second stuff up and as for the first point- it's impossible to PROVE another person's opinion is wrong. I'm surprised ND bothered to fight it.
I once knew a judge who told me in court often they're playing solitaire on their computers and only feigning interest after the first 30 minutes.

Having participated as a witness in approximately one hundred hearings I can understand why. The prosecution is usually reading from a script. The defense very often prances around a saying a lot about very little.

It’s pretty clear that if the border guards had simply waited an hour he would’ve been turned back at the border.
 
art
Posts: 4641
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:54 pm

luckyone wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
There was a very good video floating around a few days ago explaining ND never had a chance as in order to win, the onus was on him to prove the Minster's opinion was wrong OR the Minister didn't follow procedure. Well after Monday's airport debacle there was no chance of a second stuff up and as for the first point- it's impossible to PROVE another person's opinion is wrong. I'm surprised ND bothered to fight it.
I once knew a judge who told me in court often they're playing solitaire on their computers and only feigning interest after the first 30 minutes.

Having participated as a witness in approximately one hundred hearings I can understand why. The prosecution is usually reading from a script. The defense very often prances around a saying a lot about very little.

It’s pretty clear that if the border guards had simply waited an hour he would’ve been turned back at the border.

That is a good point. All this legal rigmarole could (perhaps) have been avoided if the ABF had just stuck to the undertaking made to Novak to give him a certain amount of time to provide reasons why they should not cancel his visa.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 15327
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:02 pm

luckyone wrote:
https://www.espn.com/tennis/story/_/id/33011964/novak-djokovic-allowed-play-french-open-even-unvaccinated-france-sports-minister

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... am-events/


Thanks. I think in light of this it will probably be OK, unless the current wave worsens and rules are changed on who can enter the country.
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