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A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:22 pm

art wrote:
luckyone wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
There was a very good video floating around a few days ago explaining ND never had a chance as in order to win, the onus was on him to prove the Minster's opinion was wrong OR the Minister didn't follow procedure. Well after Monday's airport debacle there was no chance of a second stuff up and as for the first point- it's impossible to PROVE another person's opinion is wrong. I'm surprised ND bothered to fight it.
I once knew a judge who told me in court often they're playing solitaire on their computers and only feigning interest after the first 30 minutes.

Having participated as a witness in approximately one hundred hearings I can understand why. The prosecution is usually reading from a script. The defense very often prances around a saying a lot about very little.

It’s pretty clear that if the border guards had simply waited an hour he would’ve been turned back at the border.

That is a good point. All this legal rigmarole could (perhaps) have been avoided if the ABF had just stuck to the undertaking made to Novak to give him a certain amount of time to provide reasons why they should not cancel his visa.


Agree, I think this will put the wind up a few supervisors at the coal face, they will tighten up a few procedures.

But also not sure why thy don’t have to provide all the correct paperwork including vaccinations status when applying for a visa, it certainly would have stop this in its tracks back in November
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:28 pm

luckyone wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
There was a very good video floating around a few days ago explaining ND never had a chance as in order to win, the onus was on him to prove the Minster's opinion was wrong OR the Minister didn't follow procedure. Well after Monday's airport debacle there was no chance of a second stuff up and as for the first point- it's impossible to PROVE another person's opinion is wrong. I'm surprised ND bothered to fight it.
I once knew a judge who told me in court often they're playing solitaire on their computers and only feigning interest after the first 30 minutes.

Having participated as a witness in approximately one hundred hearings I can understand why. The prosecution is usually reading from a script. The defense very often prances around a saying a lot about very little.

It’s pretty clear that if the border guards had simply waited an hour he would’ve been turned back at the border.


Yes I was listening to parts of the hearing and it’s clear they are just filibustering with a lot of nonsense, at times it was excruciating to continue listening
 
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Aesma
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:32 am

A101 wrote:
art wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Having participated as a witness in approximately one hundred hearings I can understand why. The prosecution is usually reading from a script. The defense very often prances around a saying a lot about very little.

It’s pretty clear that if the border guards had simply waited an hour he would’ve been turned back at the border.

That is a good point. All this legal rigmarole could (perhaps) have been avoided if the ABF had just stuck to the undertaking made to Novak to give him a certain amount of time to provide reasons why they should not cancel his visa.


Agree, I think this will put the wind up a few supervisors at the coal face, they will tighten up a few procedures.

But also not sure why thy don’t have to provide all the correct paperwork including vaccinations status when applying for a visa, it certainly would have stop this in its tracks back in November


Probably because vaccination status is an evolutive thing. You can get fully vaccinated in the matter of 3 weeks (Pfizer or Moderna, in France).

Now if vaccination is really required, then you could at least have to "swear" that you will be vaccinated on the date of your arrival.
 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:23 am

BBC reports that Novak's flight landed in Dubai around eight thirty. Whether he was flying on to Spain, Monaco, Serbia or elsewhere was not known.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:53 am

art wrote:
BBC reports that Novak's flight landed in Dubai around eight thirty. Whether he was flying on to Spain, Monaco, Serbia or elsewhere was not known.

The previously posted and deleted Twitter picture suggests he’ll be connected to the FlyDubai Belgrade flight. If that’s the case I’m sure it’ll soon be confirmed because we’ll see a photo op with his family and/or a Serbian politician — probably the same ones complaining about Australian politicians‘ political opportunism.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:02 am

luckyone wrote:
art wrote:
BBC reports that Novak's flight landed in Dubai around eight thirty. Whether he was flying on to Spain, Monaco, Serbia or elsewhere was not known.

The previously posted and deleted Twitter picture suggests he’ll be connected to the FlyDubai Belgrade flight. If that’s the case I’m sure it’ll soon be confirmed because we’ll see a photo op with his family and/or a Serbian politician — probably the same ones complaining about Australian politicians‘ political opportunism.


I bet they give him the key to the city quietly forgetting that he broke Serbian isolation rules for testing positive

Still have my doubts he tested positive
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:22 am

It appears if this current federal government wins the next general election it will enforce the 3 year ban on novax.

https://au.yahoo.com/sports/australian- ... 05476.html
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:36 am

A few questions being asked of TA after the fact

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.the ... 59mqu.html
 
art
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:56 am

Without naming Novak Djokovic, Mr Tiley’s letter to the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI), sent on November 10 and seen by The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald, pressed the expert group on whether players with a recent COVID-19 infection or a single dose of vaccine would be exempt from immigration rules requiring people coming to Australia to be fully vaccinated.


Health Minister Greg Hunt and a Health Department official wrote back to Tennis Australia on behalf of ATAGI. They rejected any suggestion that a single-vaxxed or recently infected player would be exempt.


https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59mqu.html

If true, the position was crystal clear. On receipt of the ruling, why did TA not inform all players that they could not take part in the Open unless they were fully vaccinated?

I hope that the Czech player whose visa was cancelled demands compensation from TA. She spent time and money on the AO with no chance of being able to participate.

Come to think of it, if her deportation means she cannot compete in the Australian Open next year and the year after due to Tennis Australia witholding crucial information, I imagine she could make a claim with good prospects of winning. The unknown is how much prize money TA would have prevented her winning.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:31 am

A101 wrote:
It appears if this current federal government wins the next general election it will enforce the 3 year ban on novax.

https://au.yahoo.com/sports/australian- ... 05476.html


I don't think it says what you seem to think it does. Every mention of the three year ban is accompanied by weasel words like "could" or "might".

"It's a matter for him to consider ... but a three-year exclusion could apply," she said.


It seems to say nothing more than the usual three-year ban might be applied.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:32 am

Meanwhile, in Australia, it's rumoured a few tennis games are bing played.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:58 am

scbriml wrote:
Meanwhile, in Australia, it's rumoured a few tennis games are bing played.


Yes I heard those rumours as well, I’m not a tennis fan don’t really follow it

More of a cricket fan but the less said on that the better
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:00 am

Appears TA only had novax on their mind when giving exemptions out


https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/ot ... 114-p59o8y

Too young to get vexed in his own country but that’s not an exemption?
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:31 am

A101 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Meanwhile, in Australia, it's rumoured a few tennis games are bing played.


Yes I heard those rumours as well, I’m not a tennis fan don’t really follow it

More of a cricket fan but the less said on that the better

As I understand, there was a series of tests. Only one team apparently arrived. The other must’ve been avatars.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:58 am

Apparently novax has arrived home in his native Serbia and to get a hero welcome back I suggested earlier, so I take it no fine or sentence for breaking isolation rules.

But in other news it’s looking doubtful of novax competing in the French Open as well

https://www.9news.com.au/national/novak ... 957f806324

Will be interesting to see if he bites the bullet and gets vaxed
 
melpax
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:18 pm

A101 wrote:
Apparently novax has arrived home in his native Serbia and to get a hero welcome back I suggested earlier, so I take it no fine or sentence for breaking isolation rules.

But in other news it’s looking doubtful of novax competing in the French Open as well

https://www.9news.com.au/national/novak ... 957f806324

Will be interesting to see if he bites the bullet and gets vaxed


There's also talk in the Media that he might also find it difficult to gain admission into the US, due to not being vaccinated, and being deported from a fellow 5-eyes country.....
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:37 pm

melpax wrote:
A101 wrote:
Apparently novax has arrived home in his native Serbia and to get a hero welcome back I suggested earlier, so I take it no fine or sentence for breaking isolation rules.

But in other news it’s looking doubtful of novax competing in the French Open as well

https://www.9news.com.au/national/novak ... 957f806324

Will be interesting to see if he bites the bullet and gets vaxed


There's also talk in the Media that he might also find it difficult to gain admission into the US, due to not being vaccinated, and being deported from a fellow 5-eyes country.....

I'll predict now that he gets the jab. After the Australia debacle every eye will be on him. The only medical contraindication he claimed in Australia was having contracted COVID in December of 2021. Nobody will buy that again, nor will an attempt to have a different contraindication pass the smell test after not having been initially declared. Initially he tried to be coy and not answer the question, but after that was revealed to be a pile of horse squeeze he is going to be in a corner. The smartest thing he can do is to get it, and be clear about it. Otherwise, just stay home. But, this is Novak Djokovic we're discussing here -- my other prediction is he'll find a pile to step in.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:55 pm

luckyone wrote:
A101 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Meanwhile, in Australia, it's rumoured a few tennis games are bing played.


Yes I heard those rumours as well, I’m not a tennis fan don’t really follow it

More of a cricket fan but the less said on that the better

As I understand, there was a series of tests. Only one team apparently arrived. The other must’ve been avatars.


That’s a low blow!

Off topic: that’s probably England’s worse performance in Oz for a long time. Even the draw was lucky given the time lost to weather. Those heady days of 2010/11 seem even further away now.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:02 pm

scbriml wrote:
luckyone wrote:
A101 wrote:

Yes I heard those rumours as well, I’m not a tennis fan don’t really follow it

More of a cricket fan but the less said on that the better

As I understand, there was a series of tests. Only one team apparently arrived. The other must’ve been avatars.


That’s a low blow!

Off topic: that’s probably England’s worse performance in Oz for a long time. Even the draw was lucky given the time lost to weather. Those heady days of 2010/11 seem even further away now.

From the ashes...a phoenix shall rise...hopefully. :cheeky:
 
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Aesma
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:29 am

Due to the outrage caused by the Novax affair, the French government has now changed its tune, and professional athletes need to be vaccinated to play in stadiums and similar venues. That is as long as spectators and amateur athletes are also required to be vaccinated, basically they didn't feel like letting the pros be treated differently than the plebs...

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sport ... 022-01-17/

There are some professional footballers out there that will be damning Novak...
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:30 am

A101 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
art wrote:
BBC reports that Novak's flight landed in Dubai around eight thirty. Whether he was flying on to Spain, Monaco, Serbia or elsewhere was not known.

The previously posted and deleted Twitter picture suggests he’ll be connected to the FlyDubai Belgrade flight. If that’s the case I’m sure it’ll soon be confirmed because we’ll see a photo op with his family and/or a Serbian politician — probably the same ones complaining about Australian politicians‘ political opportunism.


I bet they give him the key to the city quietly forgetting that he broke Serbian isolation rules for testing positive

Still have my doubts he tested positive


I completely agree with you... I don't think he ever tested positive in December- the PCR test was either someone else's with his details OR if you want to go the conspiracy route- the Serbian Dept. of Health was in on it. It's a remarkable coincidence that he tested positive at just the right time to receive the Tennis Australia exemption. And then we went around to 2 pubic events and a magazine interview when he should have been in quarantine- so why did he do it- because he knew he was really negative- that also explains the 3 RAT tests he did AFTER he did the PCR test. Of course, he couldn't say anything (he did accept responsibility for the interview event) because then Tennis Australia would doubt the accuracy of his tests, so he was caught in a social media bind of his own making. I believe the Serbian Govt. was annoyed ND's health details were not being kept private, but what did they expect?
 
889091
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:48 am

Letter sent from Greg Hunt (Federal Health Minister) to Craig Tiley (Australian Open CEO) dated 29 Nov 2021. See paragraphs 4, 5 & 9. Looks like Novak would have been allowed in, if he had served the mandatory quarantine period. Again, this information is from 29 Nov 2021, so things may have changed.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/aus ... 5a5e173536

Image
Image



Subsequent Tennis Australia letter to unvaccinated players.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/aus ... c090e5e1bd

Image
Image
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:29 pm

889091 wrote:
Letter sent from Greg Hunt (Federal Health Minister) to Craig Tiley (Australian Open CEO) dated 29 Nov 2021. See paragraphs 4, 5 & 9. Looks like Novak would have been allowed in, if he had served the mandatory quarantine period. Again, this information is from 29 Nov 2021, so things may have changed.


Paragraph 2 of that letter from TA to unvaccinated players says it should be uploaded to AIR.

The criteria that the TA panel used is incompatible with the form used to upload to AIR.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:16 pm

889091 wrote:
Letter sent from Greg Hunt (Federal Health Minister) to Craig Tiley (Australian Open CEO) dated 29 Nov 2021. See paragraphs 4, 5 & 9. Looks like Novak would have been allowed in, if he had served the mandatory quarantine period. Again, this information is from 29 Nov 2021, so things may have changed.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/aus ... 5a5e173536

Image
Image



Subsequent Tennis Australia letter to unvaccinated players.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/aus ... c090e5e1bd

Image
Image

Incorrect... Read paragraph 5 of the Health Minister's letter. Do not confuse being allowed to enter the country with being allowed to enter a particular state and tennis event- these are 2 separate issues that Tennis Australia screwed up. The issue you refer to relates to avoiding quarantine in Melbourne, not entering Australia.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:22 pm

eta unknown wrote:
889091 wrote:
Letter sent from Greg Hunt (Federal Health Minister) to Craig Tiley (Australian Open CEO) dated 29 Nov 2021. See paragraphs 4, 5 & 9. Looks like Novak would have been allowed in, if he had served the mandatory quarantine period. Again, this information is from 29 Nov 2021, so things may have changed.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/aus ... 5a5e173536

Image
Image



Subsequent Tennis Australia letter to unvaccinated players.
Source:
https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/aus ... c090e5e1bd

Image
Image

Incorrect... Read paragraph 5 of the Health Minister's letter. Do not confuse being allowed to enter the country with being allowed to enter a particular state and tennis event- these are 2 separate issues that Tennis Australia screwed up. The issue you refer to relates to avoiding quarantine in Melbourne, not entering Australia.

Yeah. TA miscommunicated whether intentionally or not. Strike One.
It seems the federal authorities wanted no part in the review of anyone before they arrived, and just granted electronic visas automatically. Strike Two.
Strike Three -- Djokovic's passel of sloppy errors. What a mess.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:16 pm

Mind that "status" . . .

Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... ncellation
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:42 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Mind that "status" . . .

Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... ncellation


Immigration officials in most developed countries have wide latitude to invoke rejections and visa cancellations for well known persons for any societal reasons they see fit. You'll recall Paul McCartney was busted for bringing pot into Japan twice - first in the 70s, then banned for a number of years and was caught again in the early 80s. He wasn't allowed to re-enter until 1993.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:06 pm

One of the more interesting early round matches: 2R Kyrgios vs. Medvedev. Kyrgios is 2-0, though both were played several years ago. Kyrgios at this point in his career is pretty much done being a contender for big titles, but garners a lot of attention for his antics -- I can see why some people enjoy it but I am more in it for the tennis. He doesn't put the work in, but he had the tools. In Kyrgios' favor is that it's an early round matches -- he's not in great shape and tends to run out of gas after two or three matches. Also in his favor is he tends to play better against top players. Against him is he's not in greater shape and Medvedev is one of the game's best defenders. Also against him is his coin toss focus and mental stability.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:31 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Mind that "status" . . .

Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... ncellation


It's a reason to deport him now but I think a 3 year exclusion order was a little excessive. Especially that Djokovic thought he could enter when he tried to.
As far as I know he didn't do anything illegal and was transparent about his vaccination status.

This won't be something that enrages people in a year or two so I don't see the rationale in banning him for 3 years outside of who he is.
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 4:54 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Mind that "status" . . .

Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... ncellation


It's a reason to deport him now but I think a 3 year exclusion order was a little excessive. Especially that Djokovic thought he could enter when he tried to.
As far as I know he didn't do anything illegal and was transparent about his vaccination status.

This won't be something that enrages people in a year or two so I don't see the rationale in banning him for 3 years outside of who he is.

The 3 year ban is automatic in accordance with law. Whether it's enforced is up to the appropriate minister.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:22 pm

zeke wrote:
889091 wrote:
Letter sent from Greg Hunt (Federal Health Minister) to Craig Tiley (Australian Open CEO) dated 29 Nov 2021. See paragraphs 4, 5 & 9. Looks like Novak would have been allowed in, if he had served the mandatory quarantine period. Again, this information is from 29 Nov 2021, so things may have changed.


Paragraph 2 of that letter from TA to unvaccinated players says it should be uploaded to AIR.

The criteria that the TA panel used is incompatible with the form used to upload to AIR.



It’s this is that has always left me baffled by the original decision by the FCC to overturn his visa, with regards to his statement “what more could he have done” he still didn’t comply with entry requirements to get an exemption to enter the country and it baffles me why a federal judge could not see that.

In regards to the incorrect information provided, he would still be responsible for the omission, just like on a tax return if you account makes a mistake you still wear the fine for it
 
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zeke
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:31 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Especially that Djokovic thought he could enter when he tried to.
As far as I know he didn't do anything illegal and was transparent about his vaccination status.


Read that letter from Tennis Australia to unvaccinated players

Things he did not meet according to what was presented in court
1) no medical exemption reordered on the Australian Immunisation Register
2) no medical exemption issued from overseas, his own country did not provide him with an exemption from being vaccinated
3) Court documents stated he was fully recovered from C19 when entering Australia
4) the letter from TA says once recovered you have to get vaccinated

If you read the letter from the federal government to TA it says that individual players are responsible for their own travel documents.

I am confident that if they applied for a GG408 visa again next year it would be granted as long as he met the requirements at the time and he had paid the court costs.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:41 am

It’s amazing what money does to people, novax is thinking of sueing the AusGov for 6m


Novak Djokovic 'in talks' for $6 million lawsuit against Australia

https://au.yahoo.com/sports/australian- ... 09235.html

The recent hearing and the judges Publication of Reasons is due to be released at 1615 AEST
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:59 am

A101 wrote:
It’s amazing what money does to people, novax is thinking of sueing the AusGov for 6m


Novak Djokovic 'in talks' for $6 million lawsuit against Australia

https://au.yahoo.com/sports/australian- ... 09235.html

The recent hearing and the judges Publication of Reasons is due to be released at 1615 AEST

How true might this actually be…and if he couldn’t get a judge to let him stay, how much more money is he willing to lose? I’d view this claim with skepticism until it is actually filed. It would all but guarantee his three year ban wouldn’t be overturned.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:57 am

A101 wrote:
It’s amazing what money does to people, novax is thinking of sueing the AusGov for 6m


Novak Djokovic 'in talks' for $6 million lawsuit against Australia

https://au.yahoo.com/sports/australian- ... 09235.html

The recent hearing and the judges Publication of Reasons is due to be released at 1615 AEST


In the $6 million, $4.35 million is assumed money won at the Australian Open, that’s providing if he had followed the rules and won the tournament, not sure how one can prove that, is he going to sue France next if he can’t play the French open

As for the judges reasons for canceling his visa, refer to

https://www.news.com.au/sport/tennis/au ... 570f6368ae
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:35 am

luckyone wrote:
One of the more interesting early round matches: 2R Kyrgios vs. Medvedev. Kyrgios is 2-0, though both were played several years ago. Kyrgios at this point in his career is pretty much done being a contender for big titles, but garners a lot of attention for his antics -- I can see why some people enjoy it but I am more in it for the tennis. He doesn't put the work in, but he had the tools. In Kyrgios' favor is that it's an early round matches -- he's not in great shape and tends to run out of gas after two or three matches. Also in his favor is he tends to play better against top players. Against him is he's not in greater shape and Medvedev is one of the game's best defenders. Also against him is his coin toss focus and mental stability.


Was he ever a contender? He never got anywhere near a GS final.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:38 am

StarAC17 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Mind that "status" . . .

Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... ncellation


It's a reason to deport him now but I think a 3 year exclusion order was a little excessive. Especially that Djokovic thought he could enter when he tried to.
As far as I know he didn't do anything illegal and was transparent about his vaccination status.

This won't be something that enrages people in a year or two so I don't see the rationale in banning him for 3 years outside of who he is.


No no no, 3 years is standard, why should he get less because of who he is? He is just good at tennis, that's all.
 
A101
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:45 am

REASONS FOR JUDGMENT
Djokovic v Minister for Immigration, Citizenship, Migrant Services and Multicultural Affairs [2022] FCAFC 3

https://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/j ... 3/_nocache
 
luckyone
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Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:37 am

Kiwirob wrote:
luckyone wrote:
One of the more interesting early round matches: 2R Kyrgios vs. Medvedev. Kyrgios is 2-0, though both were played several years ago. Kyrgios at this point in his career is pretty much done being a contender for big titles, but garners a lot of attention for his antics -- I can see why some people enjoy it but I am more in it for the tennis. He doesn't put the work in, but he had the tools. In Kyrgios' favor is that it's an early round matches -- he's not in great shape and tends to run out of gas after two or three matches. Also in his favor is he tends to play better against top players. Against him is he's not in greater shape and Medvedev is one of the game's best defenders. Also against him is his coin toss focus and mental stability.


Was he ever a contender? He never got anywhere near a GS final.

From about 2014-2017 he had the potential to develop into somebody who could have. It didn’t happen.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4354
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:12 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Mind that "status" . . .

Novak Djokovic visa: Australian minister Alex Hawke says risk of ‘civil unrest’ behind cancellation

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... ncellation


It's a reason to deport him now but I think a 3 year exclusion order was a little excessive. Especially that Djokovic thought he could enter when he tried to.
As far as I know he didn't do anything illegal and was transparent about his vaccination status.

This won't be something that enrages people in a year or two so I don't see the rationale in banning him for 3 years outside of who he is.


No no no, 3 years is standard, why should he get less because of who he is? He is just good at tennis, that's all.


Maybe its different in Australia but from what I have seen from shows like Border Security (probably sensationalized I know) is that an exclusion order is at the discretion of the border officials.

He shouldn't get it because (while he is an arrogant jerk sure) he made no effort to deceive the Australian government and thought he had a medical exception arranged from Tennis Australia. From what I know exclusion orders are for people who are trying to work when they are on a tourist visa and are dishonest about their visit and/or try and smuggle drugs and in the case of Australia don't mess around with flora and fauna.

He should have had the option to withdraw his application for entry to Australia for this specific event and gone back home. Now this might have been offered and denied by Djokovic then in that case issue the exclusion order. I am assuming he was up front about everything and he has the right to appeal.
 
BEG2IAH
Posts: 1121
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:09 pm

Reading this thread makes me wonder how the Inquisition would have looked back in the Medieval Times if most of the 'righteous' posters constituted the inquisitorial courts. Probably no one would have survived. No matter what everyone here thinks about Novak Djokovic, he is still the best tennis player in the world who broke so many records. Calling him novax, NJ, and what not says more about those who do that than him. Cancel culture at its best.

I watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd), based on one BBC article from the spring of 2020 long before the vaccine candidates were even in pre-clinical trials, based on Novak's 'spoken and unspoken beliefs' (per Mr. Lloyd again). The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.

I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.
The Australian Lawyers Alliance: https://www.lawyersalliance.com.au/news ... -precedent
Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/14/no ... 9-vaccine/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/we ... b-or-jail/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/br ... and-games/

Just to add... he hasn't received any hero welcome in Belgrade. I'm not sure who came up with that BS. There were 30 people at the airport and he left using a non-public exit so hardly anyone could even see him.

This story is far from over. I hope he sues shit out of Tennis Australia, gets vaccinated, and wins many more grand slams. I would love to watch those winning matches with the inquisitors. Sorry for a lengthy post, now you can go back to being righteous and judging. Good you have no faults. Good for you.
 
luckyone
Topic Author
Posts: 4320
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:11 pm

BEG2IAH wrote:
Reading this thread makes me wonder how the Inquisition would have looked back in the Medieval Times if most of the 'righteous' posters constituted the inquisitorial courts. Probably no one would have survived. No matter what everyone here thinks about Novak Djokovic, he is still the best tennis player in the world who broke so many records. Calling him novax, NJ, and what not says more about those who do that than him. Cancel culture at its best.

I watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd), based on one BBC article from the spring of 2020 long before the vaccine candidates were even in pre-clinical trials, based on Novak's 'spoken and unspoken beliefs' (per Mr. Lloyd again). The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.

I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.
The Australian Lawyers Alliance: https://www.lawyersalliance.com.au/news ... -precedent
Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/14/no ... 9-vaccine/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/we ... b-or-jail/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/br ... and-games/

Just to add... he hasn't received any hero welcome in Belgrade. I'm not sure who came up with that BS. There were 30 people at the airport and he left using a non-public exit so hardly anyone could even see him.

This story is far from over. I hope he sues shit out of Tennis Australia, gets vaccinated, and wins many more grand slams. I would love to watch those winning matches with the inquisitors. Sorry for a lengthy post, now you can go back to being righteous and judging. Good you have no faults. Good for you.

1. You and others keep overlooking that Djokovic is not an Australian citizen. He.has.no.rights. Only privileges at their grace and favor. If you can identify another Australian ministerial power so broad as to who is or is not allowed in Australia, I’m all ears. If you don’t like it, feel free not to visit. Much for the same reason as one is unlikely to find me in Saudi Arabia. He’s not the first person to be deported from Australia for his opinions. It’s hardly a precedent.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/rapp ... 59old.html

2. He should sue TA, assuming he wasn’t part of the process. But frankly, the idea that he wasn’t going to play but for a fortuitously time test that came a month after his visa application…is a big ask.

3. It’s not about not having faults. It’s about being intentionally duplicitous and inept. It’s visa paperwork. Not an astrophysics thesis. Nothing new for Djokovic et al.

4. The Australians had ample ground to boot him on other grounds like incorrect paperwork. That was just the quickest fashion that they could use.

5. I agree he’ll get the jab and likely continue to win majors. I’d almost respect him for if he just hangs it up and stands by his beliefs, whatever they may be. But why did it have to come to this for him to compromise his principles in such a fashion? He can’t ever seem to get out of his own way…
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4925
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:01 am

cpd wrote:
I'm sick and tired of all these stupid excuses. Super healthy people can get very sick from Covid and they can spread it. I'm super healthy as well, and I got vaccinated - I didn't get sick from it, aside from 1-2 days of feeling a little bit off.


:checkmark: Here here.


melpax wrote:
A very expensive 10 days for him, having to cough up for 3 Silks, 3 juniors & the instructing solicitors.....

He's booked on EK 409 leaving at 10.30pm. Was in one of the MEL international lounges under Federal Police guard.

https://twitter.com/shanemcinnes/status ... s%3A%2F%2F

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59oje.html


melpax wrote:
Someone has posted Djoker's flight details on Twitter.

Will go without saying that he will get a hero's reception on arrival in BEG...

https://twitter.com/football_roos/statu ... 51/photo/1


Link is broken. He was deported on EK409 which was operated by A6-ECV.

https://twitter.com/bobfromwirral1/stat ... 7438494725
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13967
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:46 am

BEG2IAH wrote:
Reading this thread makes me wonder how the Inquisition would have looked back in the Medieval Times if most of the 'righteous' posters constituted the inquisitorial courts. Probably no one would have survived. No matter what everyone here thinks about Novak Djokovic, he is still the best tennis player in the world who broke so many records. Calling him novax, NJ, and what not says more about those who do that than him. Cancel culture at its best.
.


Has has been and always will be a thoroughly despicable human being, he may claim the most GS titles eventually but he will never be looked upon as warmly as Feder, Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, Børg or even Mac, these are all great ambassadors for the sport, Novax is not that caliber of person. Hill will never be GOAT regardless of how many records he sets.
 
A101
Posts: 2831
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:04 am

BEG2IAH wrote:
Reading this thread makes me wonder how the Inquisition would have looked back in the Medieval Times if most of the 'righteous' posters constituted the inquisitorial courts. Probably no one would have survived.


Well that is the period of the time, just as now it’s the local law that provides the penalty

BEG2IAH wrote:
No matter what everyone here thinks about Novak Djokovic, he is still the best tennis player in the world who broke so many records. Calling him novax, NJ, and what not says more about those who do that than him. Cancel culture at its best.



It’s no more no less than what happens in the main stream and idol gossip irrespective of a person’s stature, and that only comes about by a persons actions and has been happening since times immemorial it’s very different from cancel culture. No one is canceling out his achievements, but people are taking offence to his actions

BEG2IAH wrote:
watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd),


Well the verdict tells a different story, the overwhelming majority of the country agreed with what the Federal government was doing. And with the Minister complying with the law, novax got for more preferential treatment than any joe blow from wherever would ever get, you may not have agreed with it but he did and that only comes down to his wealth.

You only have to remember it would not have got to that stage if ABF officials just gave him that time they agreed on, and he would not have got past the airport he would have gone on the next flight back to his departure.

At the end of the day he is still responsible for having the correct documents to enter the country as zeke said earlier

BEG2IAH wrote:
The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.


Yes and no, but at the end of the day, what is being defended is the Commonwealths ability to make laws and decide who enters Australia and under what circumstances, this is all about Australia’s right it’s nothing to do with tennis it’s about respecting Australian law and I 100% agree with what the AusGov did

BEG2IAH wrote:
I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.


Telling of what, that the Australian want to preserve the right who enter under what conditions and who does not?

BEG2IAH wrote:
The Australian Lawyers Alliance: https://www.lawyersalliance.com.au/news ... -precedent


The only precedent set is that Australia will preserves its right to admit persons under its own entry requirements. Visa have been denied to all sorts of people and had there visa revoked at point of entry for decades

BEG2IAH wrote:
Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/14/no ... 9-vaccine/


Every country in the world sets its own foreign policy, John Howard had every right to deny entry to the vessel to try and stop the people smuggling trade, remember these people are economic refugees and the intent is to stop the business, technically what those refugees did was mutiny, under international convention he was to transport and drop off at his next port of call.

For every refuge who jumps the que means a refugee who dose not have the means to fly to Indonesia or wherever from getting a place in Australia, and I for one applaud what the AusGov is doing it actually saves many live because those who they pay for the trip don’t care if the vessels makes it or sink and everyone drowns which occurs more frequently than people think

BEG2IAH wrote:
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/we ... b-or-jail/


There is one important distinction here, anybody that is held in detention is free to leave Australia any time they choose

BEG2IAH wrote:
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/br ... and-games/


As numerous people have said he is a guest and the requirements to enter where we’ll known and was reinforced to TA which did not pass on the letters to the medical boards, it is not in TA or for that matter the VicGov to give exemptions to enter. There is more to this than bending the rules AFB rang VicGov if they were prepared to sponsor him entering the country and they declined, it become a political sideshow between state and federal politics as state is ALP and federal being Liberal/Nationals coalition

Anti- vaxxers may complain and demonstrate but they still have to comply with health orders and the law.

We all applaud our leaders for standing up for a rules based society like standing up to China for the Uyghurs like or hate it Australia is a rules based society and they expect everyone to follow the rules.

It’s blatant hypocrisy from the VicGov to grant an exemption for novax to play when it’s holding vaccinations to domestic professional sportsman to play in local competitions

BEG2IAH wrote:

Just to add... he hasn't received any hero welcome in Belgrade. I'm not sure who came up with that BS


Just to clarify it was said before his deportation and was quoted by the media from Serbia

“When Djokovic returns home to his hometown of Belgrade, he will be welcomed as a hero. At the airport, in central squares and in the working-class neighborhood of Banjica, where he partly grew up, crowds of Serbs will be cheering for him, fans predicted.”

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politi ... australia/

BEG2IAH wrote:
There were 30 people at the airport and he left using a non-public exit so hardly anyone could even see him.


That could ultimately be put down to what the general Serbian population think of his antics......

BEG2IAH wrote:
This story is far from over. I hope he sues shit out of Tennis Australia,


From reports I think he wants to sue the federal government which I see he has no hope of winning, and I don’t think it would go far for TA either as he is ultimately responsible for making sure he has the correct documents to enter the country

BEG2IAH wrote:
now you can go back to being righteous and judging. Good you have no faults. Good for you.


We are all human which means we are far from being faultless, some people gamble on horses some on the dogs football games and so fourth, novax gambled on his entry into Australia when he didn’t need to 100% of the fault lies with Novax
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 3243
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:12 am

BEG2IAH wrote:
Reading this thread makes me wonder how the Inquisition would have looked back in the Medieval Times if most of the 'righteous' posters constituted the inquisitorial courts. Probably no one would have survived. No matter what everyone here thinks about Novak Djokovic, he is still the best tennis player in the world who broke so many records. Calling him novax, NJ, and what not says more about those who do that than him. Cancel culture at its best.

I watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd), based on one BBC article from the spring of 2020 long before the vaccine candidates were even in pre-clinical trials, based on Novak's 'spoken and unspoken beliefs' (per Mr. Lloyd again). The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.

I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.
The Australian Lawyers Alliance: https://www.lawyersalliance.com.au/news ... -precedent
Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/14/no ... 9-vaccine/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/we ... b-or-jail/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/br ... and-games/

Just to add... he hasn't received any hero welcome in Belgrade. I'm not sure who came up with that BS. There were 30 people at the airport and he left using a non-public exit so hardly anyone could even see him.

This story is far from over. I hope he sues shit out of Tennis Australia, gets vaccinated, and wins many more grand slams. I would love to watch those winning matches with the inquisitors. Sorry for a lengthy post, now you can go back to being righteous and judging. Good you have no faults. Good for you.


You sound like a disgruntled Serb. For the record, this was never an anti-Serbian issue, although the Serbian President and ND's father certainly tried to spin it that way.
Before commenting on precedents, you need to be more familiar with Australian law- I suggest you start by reading the final judge's ruling and why they agreed with the Immigration Minister's decision. As I said upthread, it was very stupid to fight this case- he never had any chance of winning according to the law.
 
luckyone
Topic Author
Posts: 4320
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:38 pm

eta unknown wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
Reading this thread makes me wonder how the Inquisition would have looked back in the Medieval Times if most of the 'righteous' posters constituted the inquisitorial courts. Probably no one would have survived. No matter what everyone here thinks about Novak Djokovic, he is still the best tennis player in the world who broke so many records. Calling him novax, NJ, and what not says more about those who do that than him. Cancel culture at its best.

I watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd), based on one BBC article from the spring of 2020 long before the vaccine candidates were even in pre-clinical trials, based on Novak's 'spoken and unspoken beliefs' (per Mr. Lloyd again). The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.

I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.
The Australian Lawyers Alliance: https://www.lawyersalliance.com.au/news ... -precedent
Foreign Policy: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/14/no ... 9-vaccine/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/we ... b-or-jail/
Spectator Australia: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/br ... and-games/

Just to add... he hasn't received any hero welcome in Belgrade. I'm not sure who came up with that BS. There were 30 people at the airport and he left using a non-public exit so hardly anyone could even see him.

This story is far from over. I hope he sues shit out of Tennis Australia, gets vaccinated, and wins many more grand slams. I would love to watch those winning matches with the inquisitors. Sorry for a lengthy post, now you can go back to being righteous and judging. Good you have no faults. Good for you.


You sound like a disgruntled Serb. For the record, this was never an anti-Serbian issue, although the Serbian President and ND's father certainly tried to spin it that way.
Before commenting on precedents, you need to be more familiar with Australian law- I suggest you start by reading the final judge's ruling and why they agreed with the Immigration Minister's decision. As I said upthread, it was very stupid to fight this case- he never had any chance of winning according to the law.

Much like the Aussie PM, the Serbian President is also up for re-election in a few months. Ironic, no?
 
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zeke
Posts: 17152
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:41 pm

BEG2IAH wrote:
I watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd), based on one BBC article from the spring of 2020 long before the vaccine candidates were even in pre-clinical trials, based on Novak's 'spoken and unspoken beliefs' (per Mr. Lloyd again). The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.

I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.


Looks like Australia will also deny entry to the American pro surfer Kelly Slater for the same reasons.

Looks like France and the USA will also deny entry to NJ for not being vaccinated.

One of the biggest issues he could never explain is why in the 10+ weeks prior to the AO he didn’t get vaccinated once. You do t need to make verbal or written statements in public if that is your medical history.

Just to be clear, the migration act in Australia says the minister has the right to revoke a visa is a person could pose a health risk to the Australians. In his lawyers submission they said he has a very small chance of being a hazard, therefore he “could” pose a health risk by their own admission.
 
luckyone
Topic Author
Posts: 4320
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:06 pm

zeke wrote:
BEG2IAH wrote:
I watched the last hearing live. The whole damn thing. It's sad that one minister can make a decision with zero evidence ('none needed' per Mr. Lloyd), based on one BBC article from the spring of 2020 long before the vaccine candidates were even in pre-clinical trials, based on Novak's 'spoken and unspoken beliefs' (per Mr. Lloyd again). The Australian government accused him of empowering antivax sentiment in Australia, but their decision gave more fuel to antivaxxers than anyone.

I do blame Novak for so many things he screwed up, let alone not being vaccinated, but the following few pieces are very telling.


Looks like Australia will also deny entry to the American pro surfer Kelly Slater for the same reasons.

Looks like France and the USA will also deny entry to NJ for not being vaccinated.

One of the biggest issues he could never explain is why in the 10+ weeks prior to the AO he didn’t get vaccinated once. You do t need to make verbal or written statements in public if that is your medical history.

Just to be clear, the migration act in Australia says the minister has the right to revoke a visa is a person could pose a health risk to the Australians. In his lawyers submission they said he has a very small chance of being a hazard, therefore he “could” pose a health risk by their own admission.

I’ve seen one piece (granted in The Epxress…) that the French rules permit deferring vaccine if soone has recovered from a COVID infection in the past six months. How accurate that report is obviously required considering the source. But…it could be an avenue.
 
889091
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: Australian Open 2022

Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:21 pm

Here's TA digging a deeper hole for themselves......

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/tennis/ ... 59qi2.html

"One of two spectators who had ‘Where is Peng Shuai?’ t-shirts and a banner confiscated at the Australian Open believes ‘hypocrisy is an understatement’ when it comes to Tennis Australia, who claim the Chinese star’s safety is still a primary concern despite the crackdown."
....

"One of the Australian Open’s major sponsors is a state-owned Chinese liquor brand."
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