Thursday marks the one year anniversary of the Insurrection at the US Capitol and this event showed just how divided America was. Very significant day in American history.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

Trump made one of his gravest errors in just sitting there and not acting to shut this riot down. Though I don't consider it an insurrection and more of a riot it should have been dealt with swiftly and with more deadly force. Any lawmaker D or R should be protected. If unauthorized individuals breach the WH grounds they get one order and then they are shot (rightly so) if they don't comply. Trump is the most ironic president in that he pulled off the biggest upset beating Hillary and had the chops to be a competent executive but just couldn't hire the right staff and listen to them. Once he passed over Newt for COS I knew his mouth would sink him in addition to his stubborness and pride. Shame because what we have in the WH now house puts us in worse danger. Nov 8th can't get here fast enough.

NIKV69 wrote:

Trump made one of his gravest errors in just sitting there and not acting to shut this riot down. Though I don't consider it an insurrection and more of a riot it should have been dealt with swiftly and with more deadly force. Any lawmaker D or R should be protected. If unauthorized individuals breach the WH grounds they get one order and then they are shot (rightly so) if they don't comply. Trump is the most ironic president in that he pulled off the biggest upset beating Hillary and had the chops to be a competent executive but just couldn't hire the right staff and listen to them. Once he passed over Newt for COS I knew his mouth would sink him in addition to his stubborness and pride. Shame because what we have in the WH now house puts us in worse danger. Nov 8th can't get here fast enough.

According to what the bipartisan House committee has found, it is basically more insurrection than riot. The goal of the organizers was to stop the procedural vote in the Senate and move to something else, and occupying the building would facilitate that. All they needed were idiot followers, and they got 'em. Read the John Eastman draft.

What the organizers also didn't anticipate was the VP following the law to the letter and the Trump kids/media heads all trying to stop the day at the first signs of violence. The fact Trump ignored his own kids for hours says a lot. As for hiring crap people, that's what happens when you're too lazy to research properly.

NIKV69 wrote:

Trump made one of his gravest errors in just sitting there and not acting to shut this riot down. Though I don't consider it an insurrection and more of a riot it should have been dealt with swiftly and with more deadly force. Any lawmaker D or R should be protected. If unauthorized individuals breach the WH grounds they get one order and then they are shot (rightly so) if they don't comply. Trump is the most ironic president in that he pulled off the biggest upset beating Hillary and had the chops to be a competent executive but just couldn't hire the right staff and listen to them. Once he passed over Newt for COS I knew his mouth would sink him in addition to his stubborness and pride. Shame because what we have in the WH now house puts us in worse danger. Nov 8th can't get here fast enough.

Error my ass. He wanted those people there. And as long as Republicans keep helping him, they can't be trusted with power.

It was an attempted coup carried out by right wing domestic terrorists. We need to start being honest about this. We should have been honest about this since the beginning. They were there to execute Pelosi and Pence and install their god as king. To have one man think and speak for us all. The majority of the Electoral College voted for Biden. The fraudulent votes were never ever cast for Biden. These domestic terrorists were, and are still, working very hard to undermine our republic. They want fascism. I don't care if you get offended by this but: those who support the 1/6 domestic terrorists want fascism also.

I have and will always consider this a terrorist attack. Imagine how insane you would look if you told someone 20 years ago that there would eventually be another attempted attack on the Capitol but this time by Americans.

ArchGuy1 wrote:

and this event showed just how divided America was.

Is, not was.

Next stop - Civil War:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFUiao7EVsY

ACDC8 wrote:

ArchGuy1 wrote:

and this event showed just how divided America was.

Is, not was.

Next stop - Civil War:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFUiao7EVsY

What's interesting though is unlike the last one, a next one will not be over a bad economic system. It will be down to plain not liking people on the other side, at a psychotic level.

Aaron747 wrote:

What's interesting though is unlike the last one, a next one will not be over a bad economic system. It will be down to plain not liking people on the other side, at a psychotic level.

Yup - and thats what makes it scary.

seb146 wrote:

It was an attempted coup carried out by right wing domestic terrorists. We need to start being honest about this. We should have been honest about this since the beginning. They were there to execute Pelosi and Pence and install their god as king. To have one man think and speak for us all. The majority of the Electoral College voted for Biden. The fraudulent votes were never ever cast for Biden. These domestic terrorists were, and are still, working very hard to undermine our republic. They want fascism. I don't care if you get offended by this but: those who support the 1/6 domestic terrorists want fascism also.

I started the thread on this site on the terror attack, or as I titled it 'Pro-Trump Riot in US Capitol Building' shortly after the they entered.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1456421&hilit=capitol.

Since the terror attack last year, a lot of information has come out that shows the intentional act of sedition and support of terrorism then President Trump encouraged to violently and unconstitutionally overthrow the 2020 Presidential Election. Those around him tried for hours to get him to call off the terror attack and allowed it to continue for hours. Sadly most Republicans instead of condemning Trump and his 'Red Hat' followers, being true patriots, following their oaths of office to the country and Constitution, they have continued to support the terrorists out of fear of Trump encouraging violent attacks on them, of losing their next primary or general election. Only 2 Republicans in the Congress have seriously gone against him and have paid a political and personal price. They continue to support the lies, the allegations of massive election process corruption, to support a former President who was full of hate for anyone not supporting him. I just hope that someday soon the Congressional 1/6 committee, the US DOJ, the NY State AG and Manhattan DA investigations destroy Trump financially and politically for the biggest domestic attack on our government since the Civil War over 160 years ago.

NIKV69 wrote:

Trump is the most ironic president in that he pulled off the biggest upset beating Hillary and had the chops to be a competent executive but just couldn't hire the right staff and listen to them.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the quoted part, but overall, I agree with you! I believe his personality was an automatic shot in the foot, but I cannot argue your other points. In fact, I just have to sit back in disgusted awe that he was able to pull off what he did. Kinda like when the ugly boring kid lands a date with a cheerleader type of thing

I felt Biden's speech got to the horrible root of the issue still facing the nation.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/politics ... index.html

And here is the truth: The former president of the United States of America has created and spread a web of lies about the 2020 election. He's done so because he values power over principle, because he sees his own interests as more important than his country's interests and America's interests, and because his bruised ego matters more to him than our democracy or our Constitution.
He can't accept he lost, even though that's what 93 United States senators, his own Attorney General, his own Vice President, governors and state officials in every battleground state have all said: He lost.
That's what 81 million of you did as you voted for a new way forward.
He has done what no president in American history -- the history of this country -- has ever, ever done: He refused to accept the results of an election and the will of the American people.

This is the crux of the issue, and it is an important takeaway.

What occurred on Jan 6 2021, was an insurrection powered by lies and corruption.


There are many historical accounts of what occurred that day, and it was not a peaceful rally. The thread from that day and the days that followed can be found below.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1456421&hilit=Jan+6&start=1050

Many posts were deleted in that thread that contained the visceral brutal videos of what happened during that day.


What stuns me even yesterday, is how many on the right continue to dismiss and ignore their own failings from that day, the days prior, and the days after.

The US is not in a good place, and the issues that helped bring about Jan 6 are still in place. We still have people trying to steal elections. Just looks at the gerrymandering court cases around the country.

Lies are not innocent and helpful when they destroy the truth. The people that led the insurrection need to be held accountable. The people that instigated and propagated the lies and attacks on the electoral system need to be held accountable.

af773atmsp wrote:

I have and will always consider this a terrorist attack. Imagine how insane you would look if you told someone 20 years ago that there would eventually be another attempted attack on the Capitol but this time by Americans.

Except it's ok when the terrorists were on the other side. This isn't the first attack on the capitol and Pres Bill Clinton commuted the sentences of the bombers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Unit ... te_bombing

stratosphere wrote:

af773atmsp wrote:

I have and will always consider this a terrorist attack. Imagine how insane you would look if you told someone 20 years ago that there would eventually be another attempted attack on the Capitol but this time by Americans.

Except it's ok when the terrorists were on the other side. This isn't the first attack on the capitol and Pres Bill Clinton commuted the sentences of the bombers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Unit ... te_bombing

Those people all served lengthy jail sentences and were charged and convicted. They called ahead and warned about the bomb giving everyone time to get out. They didn't try to kill indiscriminately. They destroyed federal property and went to prison for it. Only 2 of those charged had their sentences commuted. if you want a full history of attacks on the Capitol go here.
https://www.history.com/news/us-capitol ... ence-fires

It wasn't' the first terrorist attack, but it was the first to be led by lies from the sitting President and his followers.

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

To some, every person not named Trump is a RINO. Not that I like Cruz...

skyservice_330 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

Kissing the ring of Hannity and begging for forgiveness ... that should tell you right there who holds power in GOP circles. So gross.

It is proof to anyone with common sense that Cruz does not belong in a leadership position. He is a not a leader. He is a groveler, and cowls away from Confrontation.

johns624 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

To some, every person not named Trump is a RINO. Not that I like Cruz...

Nobody likes Cruz.

casinterest wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

Kissing the ring of Hannity and begging for forgiveness ... that should tell you right there who holds power in GOP circles. So gross.

It is proof to anyone with common sense that Cruz does not belong in a leadership position. He is a not a leader. He is a groveler, and cowls away from Confrontation.

Confronting mobs seldom works. He is just acknowledging that.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

casinterest wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

Kissing the ring of Hannity and begging for forgiveness ... that should tell you right there who holds power in GOP circles. So gross.

It is proof to anyone with common sense that Cruz does not belong in a leadership position. He is a not a leader. He is a groveler, and cowls away from Confrontation.

Confronting mobs seldom works. He is just acknowledging that.

Tugg

Well he never stood up to Trump when Trump attacked his wife and himself. He is not a good man in any situation, warm or cold it would seem.

casinterest wrote:

Tugger wrote:

casinterest wrote:

It is proof to anyone with common sense that Cruz does not belong in a leadership position. He is a not a leader. He is a groveler, and cowls away from Confrontation.

Confronting mobs seldom works. He is just acknowledging that.

Tugg

Well he never stood up to Trump when Trump attacked his wife and himself. He is not a good man in any situation, warm or cold it would seem.

I can't disagree. I have always been shocked at the number of people that cower or grovel regarding Trump and his ilk. I appreciate all that stand up in front of that and do not waver.

The idolatry is astounding. Yet so many claim they are not idolizing him, just agreeing, that this is just exactly what they think. Suddenly.

Tugg

Whatever happened to back the blue? Now it's "mobs are ok as long as they aren't black, the blue be damned"

This proves that their obsession with the blue has nothing do to with the blue, and everything to do with the race of the individuals getting shot by the police

stl07 wrote:

Whatever happened to back the blue? Now it's "mobs are ok as long as they aren't black, the blue be damned"

This proves that their obsession with the blue has nothing do to with the blue, and everything to do with the race of the individuals getting shot by the police

No, no, those officers were "Careless with their weapons" so they don't count. They are the bad ones.
(The post referencing that was removed apparently. I'm gonna have to start saving posts I make to protect what I write.)

Tugg

skyservice_330 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Whatever happened to back the blue? Now it's "mobs are ok as long as they aren't black, the blue be damned"

This proves that their obsession with the blue has nothing do to with the blue, and everything to do with the race of the individuals getting shot by the police

A very good point.

A President who talks about support for those in blue, only to have his supporters brutalize them while he sat back, talks cheaply. Jan. 6 single handedly, as you note, sucked the air out of any notion that the right or conservatives maintain some sacred respect for those in blue. Actions speak louder than words. Yet another tectonic outcome of that day, and in addition to the notoriety that Trump and conservatives will forever hold in the history books for their role in an attempt to subvert democracy while hunting down politicians in the seat of government. The video footage of those on the right, wandering the halls and calling out and hunting for Democrats, is truly chilling.

Yes the actions of a few that day represent the whole party just like the actions of a few represent the whole Democratic Party. Politicians and media want this narrative to continue, I would hope that majority of people see through this, but apparently not evident here.

dmg626 wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Whatever happened to back the blue? Now it's "mobs are ok as long as they aren't black, the blue be damned"

This proves that their obsession with the blue has nothing do to with the blue, and everything to do with the race of the individuals getting shot by the police

A very good point.

A President who talks about support for those in blue, only to have his supporters brutalize them while he sat back, talks cheaply. Jan. 6 single handedly, as you note, sucked the air out of any notion that the right or conservatives maintain some sacred respect for those in blue. Actions speak louder than words. Yet another tectonic outcome of that day, and in addition to the notoriety that Trump and conservatives will forever hold in the history books for their role in an attempt to subvert democracy while hunting down politicians in the seat of government. The video footage of those on the right, wandering the halls and calling out and hunting for Democrats, is truly chilling.

Yes the actions of a few that day represent the whole party just like the actions of a few represent the whole Democratic Party. Politicians and media want this narrative to continue, I would hope that majority of people see through this, but apparently not evident here.

See through what?
The People most responsible for this attack ( Trump , and GOP members of the White House Staff, Senate and Congress) still have not been held accountable for their lies that led to this event.

dmg626 wrote:

Yes the actions of a few that day represent the whole party just like the actions of a few represent the whole Democratic Party. Politicians and media want this narrative to continue, I would hope that majority of people see through this, but apparently not evident here.

The Republicans had more than ample opportunity to disown the Capitol insurrection. They haven't done it - and I no longer believe that they even can. They set up a fraudulent set of electors in Wisconsin, had a bogus election audit in Arizona, and have in several cases tried to hand control of a state's electoral votes to state legislatures rather than voters - in other words, they have exactly the same contempt for the actual outcome of the 2020 vote as Trump and the rioters who broke into the Capitol on his behalf. Republican voters believe the same things the insurrectionists do, listen to the same people, read the same news, and ultimately, share the same empty lust for power at all costs.

dmg626 wrote:

Yes the actions of a few that day represent the whole party just like the actions of a few represent the whole Democratic Party. Politicians and media want this narrative to continue, I would hope that majority of people see through this, but apparently not evident here.

Cruz tried that and has been hung for saying such. Why?

Tugg

Looking at it from outside America, I think the general feeling is that it's amazing that it has taken so long for Trump to be brought to justice. Yes, I realise that the Jan 6 Committee is issuing sub-poenas, but it is still amazing that Trump still walks free; he incited an insurrection against one of the world's best known icons of democracy; he had ample opportunity - and was prevailed upon many times - to call the riot off.

Regardless of sides, you can bet that if something similar happened in any other democracy, those involved would have been brought to justice. Maybe we will get to the truth; I sincerely hope that DT is brought to account for everything that happened on that day, but also the period leading up to it. What he did was unforgivable and what is particularly sad is that to this day, so many people cannot and will not see that what happened was wrong.

This - and the casting of doubt upon the electoral process, the bedrock of any democracy - is Trump's most damning legacy.

meecrob wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Trump is the most ironic president in that he pulled off the biggest upset beating Hillary and had the chops to be a competent executive but just couldn't hire the right staff and listen to them.

I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the quoted part, but overall, I agree with you! I believe his personality was an automatic shot in the foot, but I cannot argue your other points. In fact, I just have to sit back in disgusted awe that he was able to pull off what he did. Kinda like when the ugly boring kid lands a date with a cheerleader type of thing

I don't think it's the ugly kid getting the cheerleader I think it's the good looking guy getting the cheerleader and once he has her doing stupid stuff all the way until she dumps him.

Tugger wrote:

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

Well he is running for president next cycle so he has to keep the crazies happy for the Primary and the middle happy in case he makes it to the general.

Newark727 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

I do love how Cruz is getting pwned over his statement. The Right loves to eat its own.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tu ... 88853.html

Tugg

To some, every person not named Trump is a RINO. Not that I like Cruz...

Nobody likes Cruz.

He isn't very likable hence why he always loses in the primaires.

Newark727 wrote:

The Republicans had more than ample opportunity to disown the Capitol insurrection. They haven't done it - and I no longer believe that they even can. They set up a fraudulent set of electors in Wisconsin, had a bogus election audit in Arizona, and have in several cases tried to hand control of a state's electoral votes to state legislatures rather than voters - in other words, they have exactly the same contempt for the actual outcome of the 2020 vote as Trump and the rioters who broke into the Capitol on his behalf. Republican voters believe the same things the insurrectionists do, listen to the same people, read the same news, and ultimately, share the same moral vacuity.

This whole "you didn't disavow it so you can't lead" stuff is lame. Many members of the GOP have disowned it but the left has to run with this everyone in the GOP or who voted for Trump is a extreme or a domestic terrorist because their party is fractured and are looking at a bad midterm. Also calling anyone that didn't vote democrat an insurrectionist is going to alienate the middle which will backfire like it did when Trump was running in 2016.

NIKV69 wrote:

This whole "you didn't disavow it so you can't lead" stuff is lame. Many members of the GOP have disowned it

I mean the numbers kind of speak for themselves. You get what, 10 of 200 congressmen and three or four senators willing to go on the record? And every one of them has been spurned by the party for it.

NIKV69 wrote:

Well he is running for president next cycle so he has to keep the crazies happy for the Primary and the middle happy in case he makes it to the general.

Isn't that kind of the problem right there? Why is it so damn important to keep the crazies happy?

Newark727 wrote:

Isn't that kind of the problem right there? Why is it so damn important to keep the crazies happy?

It's election turnout, I didn't create it. Primaries are very fringe and the hard liners turn out and factor into who wins. Then you move back to the middle for the general. Don't look at me I want a third party in the system but until then this is what it is.

NIKV69 wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Isn't that kind of the problem right there? Why is it so damn important to keep the crazies happy?

It's election turnout, I didn't create it. Primaries are very fringe and the hard liners turn out and factor into who wins. Then you move back to the middle for the general. Don't look at me I want a third party in the system but until then this is what it is.

We don't need the fringe driving the bus. If that is what drives the primaries, we need to get rid of primaries. All we are getting are bad actors.

NIKV69 wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Isn't that kind of the problem right there? Why is it so damn important to keep the crazies happy?

It's election turnout, I didn't create it. Primaries are very fringe and the hard liners turn out and factor into who wins. Then you move back to the middle for the general. Don't look at me I want a third party in the system but until then this is what it is.

Joe Biden got through the primaries and won 80 million votes in the general election without pandering to a single domestic terrorist. If the system is so unacceptable to you stop voting for its products.

casinterest wrote:

We don't need the fringe driving the bus. If that is what drives the primaries, we need to get rid of primaries. All we are getting are bad actors.

Open elections would have a chance to work, would love to see it.

Newark727 wrote:

Joe Biden got through the primaries and won 80 million votes in the general election without pandering to a single domestic terrorist. If the system is so unacceptable to you stop voting for its products.

Oh come on, Of course he did. Problem is when a person who votes Democrat blows something up or burns something down he or she is called an "activist" and not a terrorist. It's identity politics at it's worst. As for stop voting for it's products I never vote in primaries for this reason.

NIKV69 wrote:

Newark727 wrote:

Joe Biden got through the primaries and won 80 million votes in the general election without pandering to a single domestic terrorist. If the system is so unacceptable to you stop voting for its products.

Oh come on, Of course he did. Problem is when a person who votes Democrat blows something up or burns something down he or she is called an "activist" and not a terrorist. It's identity politics at it's worst. As for stop voting for it's products I never vote in primaries for this reason.

I was going to note that Biden did state he would have a female POC as his running mate... That is pandering and part of the base he was pandering to were very vocally in support of the BLM violence that occurred. He wanted those votes (or more accurately he couldn't afford to lose them).

Tugg

ltbewr wrote:

Since the terror attack last year, a lot of information has come out that shows the intentional act of sedition and support of terrorism then President Trump encouraged to violently and unconstitutionally overthrow the 2020 Presidential Election. Those around him tried for hours to get him to call off the terror attack and allowed it to continue for hours. Sadly most Republicans instead of condemning Trump and his 'Red Hat' followers, being true patriots, following their oaths of office to the country and Constitution, they have continued to support the terrorists out of fear of Trump encouraging violent attacks on them, of losing their next primary or general election. Only 2 Republicans in the Congress have seriously gone against him and have paid a political and personal price. They continue to support the lies, the allegations of massive election process corruption, to support a former President who was full of hate for anyone not supporting him. I just hope that someday soon the Congressional 1/6 committee, the US DOJ, the NY State AG and Manhattan DA investigations destroy Trump financially and politically for the biggest domestic attack on our government since the Civil War over 160 years ago.

I am not necessarily a Stephen Colbert fan, but I must admit this is possibly the most concise - and biting - synopsis of what started on January 6th:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_IxT2ei9gU

casinterest wrote:

It is proof to anyone with common sense that Cruz does not belong in a leadership position. He is a not a leader. He is a groveler, and cowls away from Confrontation.

And, if I may add, and embarrassment to the great state of Texas.

Tugger wrote:

I have always been shocked at the number of people that cower or grovel regarding Trump and his ilk. I appreciate all that stand up in front of that and do not waver. The idolatry is astounding. Yet so many claim they are not idolizing him, just agreeing, that this is just exactly what they think. Suddenly.

Admit it or not, it is the classic definition of a cult - and that's quite an accomplishment for that snake-oil salesman.

Newark727 wrote:

Isn't that kind of the problem right there? Why is it so damn important to keep the crazies happy?

This. We all here that we shouldn't "let the inmates run the asylum", yet we fail to recognize it until it is too late.

skyservice_330 wrote:

A President who talks about support for those in blue, only to have his supporters brutalize them while he sat back, talks cheaply. Jan. 6 single handedly, as you note, sucked the air out of any notion that the right or conservatives maintain some sacred respect for those in blue. Actions speak louder than words. Yet another tectonic outcome of that day, and in addition to the notoriety that Trump and conservatives will forever hold in the history books for their role in an attempt to subvert democracy while hunting down politicians in the seat of government. The video footage of those on the right, wandering the halls and calling out and hunting for Democrats, is truly chilling.

Maybe Congress will, one day, make January 6th a National Holiday.

I suggest calling it, "Hang Mike Pence Day".

This riot was caused because the Republican party made the decision to support Donald Trump's assertion that the election was stolen. This is the view of 70% of Republicans. They refuse to disavow this lie. How many of you Republicans here believe that the election was stolen from Donald Trump?

af773atmsp wrote:

I have and will always consider this a terrorist attack. Imagine how insane you would look if you told someone 20 years ago that there would eventually be another attempted attack on the Capitol but this time by Americans.

I totally agree. I think people are wildly exaggerating the stature of what happened, it wasn't Pearl Harbor, it was largely a media event by some clowns. But they did cross a red line into becoming enemy combatants of the USA. They didn't do it very well, and they didn't accomplish much. But they crossed the line.

It would have been acceptable IMO to kill all the terrorists who entered the building. Don't Capitol officers have bullets for exactly this purpose?! Don't we have a military to kill people who are trying to defeat the US government?

victrola wrote:

This riot was caused because the Republican party made the decision to support Donald Trump's assertion that the election was stolen. This is the view of 70% of Republicans. They refuse to disavow this lie. How many of you Republicans here believe that the election was stolen from Donald Trump?

Not a Republican, but I think Biden won pretty convincingly. Not by a lot, but he won. As for people refusing to believe it, guess what. The number of Democrats who denied Trump's lawful election in Jan 2018 was probably also 70%. Have we forgotten that already? Uncomfortable memory? Meanwhile, in Jan 2002, everybody was behind Dubya in his march to war, even though his election in 2000 was honestly as sketchy as can be.

This narrative that we are living through an unprecedented situation... is false. People are saying that to get more money and power for themselves. That is what people do. Next?

LCDFlight wrote:

It would have been acceptable IMO to kill all the terrorists who entered the building. Don't Capitol officers have bullets for exactly this purpose?! Don't we have a military to kill people who are trying to defeat the US government?

Yet, the one rioter who was killed is considered a martyr and hero by many.

LCDFlight wrote:

af773atmsp wrote:

I have and will always consider this a terrorist attack. Imagine how insane you would look if you told someone 20 years ago that there would eventually be another attempted attack on the Capitol but this time by Americans.

I totally agree. I think people are wildly exaggerating the stature of what happened, it wasn't Pearl Harbor, it was largely a media event by some clowns. But they did cross a red line into becoming enemy combatants of the USA. They didn't do it very well, and they didn't accomplish much. But they crossed the line.

It would have been acceptable IMO to kill all the terrorists who entered the building. Don't Capitol officers have bullets for exactly this purpose?! Don't we have a military to kill people who are trying to defeat the US government?

There is another thing that people are not thinking. What Mr. Trump with his January 6 insurrection/riot/terrorism did is set a precedent not just for the U.S. but for around the world. Now any nation which uses electoral politics if one of them is extreme, he is going to use the same tools. And the U.S. would not be able to do anything about it. They won't be able to say anything without appearing to be shallow and hypocritical.

More interestingly, because most of the insiders barring a few have not consented to the proceedings and those who have probably had to alter their lifestyles also tells the same.

I do fear that in India when it would go for polls in 2024 if the RW party BJP doesn't win, it would do massive riots, they already have been dividing people on many issues. So it won't take long in India for a civil war to happen if such a situation happens. And I'm sure the same probably could be said of many countries.

The U.S. was supposed to be champion of democracy but now even if they say it with a straight face, nobody is gonna believe them.

Of course, for most people within the United States, this probably wouldn't even have entered their thought process.

LCDFlight wrote:

Not a Republican, but I think Biden won pretty convincingly. Not by a lot, but he won. As for people refusing to believe it, guess what. The number of Democrats who denied Trump's lawful election in Jan 2018 was probably also 70%. Have we forgotten that already? Uncomfortable memory? Meanwhile, in Jan 2002, everybody was behind Dubya in his march to war, even though his election in 2000 was honestly as sketchy as can be.

I think there's a pretty clear difference in degree. People seized on concerns about Trump's legitimacy based on investigations into the activities of his campaign, but those investigations were put forward by legitimate, credentialed law enforcement officials who had to be able to back up their claims, and no one ever doubted the actual vote totals or attempted to interfere with the installation of President Trump itself. And Hillary Clinton herself conceded the race relatively cleanly rather than attempt to control the Democratic party as a president in exile the way Trump has done with the Republicans.

As for 2000, it is interesting to wonder how things might have gone differently in retrospect, if 9/11 hadn't taken place for example. It may be that election was more significant in hindsight than we gave it credit for at the time.

pune wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

af773atmsp wrote:

I have and will always consider this a terrorist attack. Imagine how insane you would look if you told someone 20 years ago that there would eventually be another attempted attack on the Capitol but this time by Americans.

I totally agree. I think people are wildly exaggerating the stature of what happened, it wasn't Pearl Harbor, it was largely a media event by some clowns. But they did cross a red line into becoming enemy combatants of the USA. They didn't do it very well, and they didn't accomplish much. But they crossed the line.

It would have been acceptable IMO to kill all the terrorists who entered the building. Don't Capitol officers have bullets for exactly this purpose?! Don't we have a military to kill people who are trying to defeat the US government?

There is another thing that people are not thinking. What Mr. Trump with his January 6 insurrection/riot/terrorism did is set a precedent not just for the U.S. but for around the world. Now any nation which uses electoral politics if one of them is extreme, he is going to use the same tools. And the U.S. would not be able to do anything about it. They won't be able to say anything without appearing to be shallow and hypocritical.

More interestingly, because most of the insiders barring a few have not consented to the proceedings and those who have probably had to alter their lifestyles also tells the same.

I do fear that in India when it would go for polls in 2024 if the RW party BJP doesn't win, it would do massive riots, they already have been dividing people on many issues. So it won't take long in India for a civil war to happen if such a situation happens. And I'm sure the same probably could be said of many countries.

The U.S. was supposed to be champion of democracy but now even if they say it with a straight face, nobody is gonna believe them.

Of course, for most people within the United States, this probably wouldn't even have entered their thought process.

Part of being a democracy is having police to enforce the people's laws. There is nothing wrong with using police to protect democracy. That is not equivalent to using police to protect a dictatorship. Actually, the two are opposites. Protect democracy with as many bullets as are necessary to do the job, IMO. Note, I am not advocating violence. I am advocating defensive actions when necessary, to protect human rights and democracy. This is not a defense of Tiananmen.

LCDFlight wrote:

I totally agree. I think people are wildly exaggerating the stature of what happened, it wasn't Pearl Harbor, it was largely a media event by some clowns.

To be fair, we don't know the full extent because the House committee hasn't released all of their findings yet. Things were poorly executed, to be sure, but the available narrative so far from Rep. Cheney and others is that some elements of the Trump WH and its strange orbit of hangers on and unofficial advisors were presenting a legal theory about turning over the election that required an event to occur at the Capitol. Whether or not they had assistance from loyalist members of Congress and donors in fringe activist groups remains to be seen.

I found it interesting that Dick Cheney finally broke his silence and publicly supported his daughter. Of course, now he's a "RINO".

johns624 wrote:

I found it interesting that Dick Cheney finally broke his silence and publicly supported his daughter. Of course, now he's a "RINO".

And so is she, apparently...which makes no sense at all looking at her policy record. RINO has lost all meaning anyway.

Aaron747 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I found it interesting that Dick Cheney finally broke his silence and publicly supported his daughter. Of course, now he's a "RINO".

And so is she, apparently...which makes no sense at all looking at her policy record. RINO has lost all meaning anyway.

The one Republican who has spoken out against Trump and not suffered much backlash is Michigan's Pete Meijer. I have a feeling, without any evidence, that it's because of his family. They own a chain of Walmart style superstores called Meijer's. They are very big in Michigan Republican politics and I wouldn't be surprised if his father called up the state GOP leaders and told them that if any of them messed with his son, that the family financial and influence resources would be sic'ed on them.

johns624 wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

It would have been acceptable IMO to kill all the terrorists who entered the building. Don't Capitol officers have bullets for exactly this purpose?! Don't we have a military to kill people who are trying to defeat the US government?

Yet, the one rioter who was killed is considered a martyr and hero by many.

Police officers have requirements on when they can and cannot use force, including deadly force. Generally, deadly force is only allowed to preserve life, not property. The use of the US military on US soil has even more legal and constitutional restrictions.