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ArchGuy1
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Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Sun Jan 09, 2022 10:51 pm

At least 19 people, including 9 children have died in a large fire at an apartment building in New York City on Sunday. About 200 firefighters were battling the blaze in the 19 story apartment building in the Tremont neighborhood of The Bronx. At least 63 people have been injured, with 32 of them suffering life threatening injuries. The fire was believed to be started by a malfunctioning space heater in a duplex on the third floor. The fire spread to two floors, but smoke conditions were seen on all 19 floors. It will be interesting to see if there were any code violations with this building.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/6abc.com/a ... /11445406/
 
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fr8mech
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:41 pm

From Google Maps, this looks like a relatively new building…at least compared to those around it. So, yes, code violation questions will be asked.

The other questions should, among other things, revolve around the occupancy load of the building and various apartments and the actual load of those apartments. And, if there is an issue there, who knew about it?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:27 am

Space heaters are notoriously unsafe when improperly used. Too often they are placed too close to bedding, drapes, furniture that catches on fire from the heat output. Using extension cords at all or not able to handle the amperage involved with them can cause shorts and fires. This is the most deadly fire event since an arson at a nightclub in 1990. It is also possible more than 19 may die as some who initially survived succumb to their injuries.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:27 am

fr8mech wrote:
From Google Maps, this looks like a relatively new building…at least compared to those around it. So, yes, code violation questions will be asked.

The other questions should, among other things, revolve around the occupancy load of the building and various apartments and the actual load of those apartments. And, if there is an issue there, who knew about it?


The website Trulia is showing the complex was built in 1972.

ltbewr wrote:
Space heaters are notoriously unsafe when improperly used. Too often they are placed too close to bedding, drapes, furniture that catches on fire from the heat output. Using extension cords at all or not able to handle the amperage involved with them can cause shorts and fires.


:checkmark:
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:06 pm

Safety doors failed in NYC high-rise fire that killed 17

https://apnews.com/article/fires-new-yo ... 3e6e7b38e4

The building was equipped with self-closing doors and smoke alarms, but several residents said they initially ignored the alarms because they were so common in the 120-unit building.

Residents smoking in the stairwells sometimes tripped the fire alarms, and property managers had been working with them to address the problem, Magee said. She said the alarms appeared to work properly on Sunday.


This is Public Housing. Do people living in Public Housing in NY have a state right to smoke?? Seems to me that if smoking was not allowed at all in the building, that the smoke alarms would not have been going off frequently, and that when the smoke alarms did go off, that people would take them seriously.

Public Housing is sort of an example of what would happen if the Govt. was in charge of a guaranteed basic income + guaranteed housing for everyone...
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15202
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:22 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Safety doors failed in NYC high-rise fire that killed 17

https://apnews.com/article/fires-new-yo ... 3e6e7b38e4

The building was equipped with self-closing doors and smoke alarms, but several residents said they initially ignored the alarms because they were so common in the 120-unit building.

Residents smoking in the stairwells sometimes tripped the fire alarms, and property managers had been working with them to address the problem, Magee said. She said the alarms appeared to work properly on Sunday.


This is Public Housing. Do people living in Public Housing in NY have a state right to smoke?? Seems to me that if smoking was not allowed at all in the building, that the smoke alarms would not have been going off frequently, and that when the smoke alarms did go off, that people would take them seriously.

Public Housing is sort of an example of what would happen if the Govt. was in charge of a guaranteed basic income + guaranteed housing for everyone...


Why are you attacking public housing? This building as listed in the article is 50+ years old, and as such the current required sprinkler systems of NYC are not present. Not to mention the building was not designed with an efficient HVAC system. This is what allowed the fire to spread, above and beyond doors that had been jammed open or issues with "public housing"
My expectation is that NY will be revisiting the conversion of older high rises to sprinkler systems.
 
Elkadad313
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:59 pm

casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Safety doors failed in NYC high-rise fire that killed 17

https://apnews.com/article/fires-new-yo ... 3e6e7b38e4

The building was equipped with self-closing doors and smoke alarms, but several residents said they initially ignored the alarms because they were so common in the 120-unit building.

Residents smoking in the stairwells sometimes tripped the fire alarms, and property managers had been working with them to address the problem, Magee said. She said the alarms appeared to work properly on Sunday.


This is Public Housing. Do people living in Public Housing in NY have a state right to smoke?? Seems to me that if smoking was not allowed at all in the building, that the smoke alarms would not have been going off frequently, and that when the smoke alarms did go off, that people would take them seriously.

Public Housing is sort of an example of what would happen if the Govt. was in charge of a guaranteed basic income + guaranteed housing for everyone...


Why are you attacking public housing? This building as listed in the article is 50+ years old, and as such the current required sprinkler systems of NYC are not present. Not to mention the building was not designed with an efficient HVAC system. This is what allowed the fire to spread, above and beyond doors that had been jammed open or issues with "public housing"
My expectation is that NY will be revisiting the conversion of older high rises to sprinkler systems.

If the prohibition of smoking in the hallways had somehow been enforced, there would have been no need for anyone to disable the self-closing doors, thereby eliminating the chimney effect that killed all 17. The basic question is 'how do you successfully enact actual enforcement?'
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Wed Jan 12, 2022 4:26 am

Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Safety doors failed in NYC high-rise fire that killed 17

https://apnews.com/article/fires-new-yo ... 3e6e7b38e4

The building was equipped with self-closing doors and smoke alarms, but several residents said they initially ignored the alarms because they were so common in the 120-unit building.

Residents smoking in the stairwells sometimes tripped the fire alarms, and property managers had been working with them to address the problem, Magee said. She said the alarms appeared to work properly on Sunday.


This is Public Housing. Do people living in Public Housing in NY have a state right to smoke?? Seems to me that if smoking was not allowed at all in the building, that the smoke alarms would not have been going off frequently, and that when the smoke alarms did go off, that people would take them seriously.

Public Housing is sort of an example of what would happen if the Govt. was in charge of a guaranteed basic income + guaranteed housing for everyone...


Why are you attacking public housing? This building as listed in the article is 50+ years old, and as such the current required sprinkler systems of NYC are not present. Not to mention the building was not designed with an efficient HVAC system. This is what allowed the fire to spread, above and beyond doors that had been jammed open or issues with "public housing"
My expectation is that NY will be revisiting the conversion of older high rises to sprinkler systems.

If the prohibition of smoking in the hallways had somehow been enforced, there would have been no need for anyone to disable the self-closing doors, thereby eliminating the chimney effect that killed all 17. The basic question is 'how do you successfully enact actual enforcement?'


It seems to me that strategically placed security cameras in the stairwells, would allow the offenders to be identified and cited, and evicted if necessary. NY State does allow evictions from Public Housing, no ??

How about a sensor on the roof fire door at the very least. Why is this so hard???
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:32 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
It seems to me that strategically placed security cameras in the stairwells, would allow the offenders to be identified and cited, and evicted if necessary. NY State does allow evictions from Public Housing, no ??

How about a sensor on the roof fire door at the very least. Why is this so hard???


Those cameras would have a life expectancy of about three days at most. By then, they will have been disabled or outright torn off their mountings.

Before retirement, I did plenty of my field work in public housing. Cameras are removed, smashed, or blinded. Light fixtures are bashed to pieces, or the lamps removed so that dope and weapon dealing can take place in the dark.

Before anyone climbs my frame about tarring all public housing residents with the criminal brush, spare me. I encountered plenty of tenants who kept spotlessly clean apartments, were kindly and gentle. They were also scared out of their minds by those they were compelled to live near. The "authorities" either do nothing, or the courts rule that the thugs are "entitled"; that they have "rights".
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15202
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Fire at a New York City Apartment Building

Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:03 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Elkadad313 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Why are you attacking public housing? This building as listed in the article is 50+ years old, and as such the current required sprinkler systems of NYC are not present. Not to mention the building was not designed with an efficient HVAC system. This is what allowed the fire to spread, above and beyond doors that had been jammed open or issues with "public housing"
My expectation is that NY will be revisiting the conversion of older high rises to sprinkler systems.

If the prohibition of smoking in the hallways had somehow been enforced, there would have been no need for anyone to disable the self-closing doors, thereby eliminating the chimney effect that killed all 17. The basic question is 'how do you successfully enact actual enforcement?'


It seems to me that strategically placed security cameras in the stairwells, would allow the offenders to be identified and cited, and evicted if necessary. NY State does allow evictions from Public Housing, no ??

How about a sensor on the roof fire door at the very least. Why is this so hard???



You all are concentrating on things that wouldn't have mattered with up to date sprinklers. However Doors always get propped open, even in big businesses and dorms. The Superintendent of that building will have a lot to say in the investigation of what did and did not occur, along with the fire inspectors.

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