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Derico
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Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:00 am

"Dome of Doom"

According to the local meterological agency, the entire summer "heat dome" of South America, which from a century of data plus historical records prior, has always been centered in Paraguay, southwestern Brazil, and extreme northern Argentina, has abruptly shifted south in its entirety this year by almost 10 degrees of latitude, which was until now deemed nearly impossible due to oceanic influences in the southern Cone. Not only did traditionally temperate areas along the Atlantic coast soar past 40 degrees Celsius, for the first time ever the entirety of the "center of heat" on the whole planet was within Argentine territory (which means nearly 100% south of the tropic of Capricorn), for a record 33 hours.

Usually cold fronts snap briefer and lesser "normal heatwaves" of 2-3 days in length, but the cold fronts have 'disappeared', due to extremely low atmospheric circulation, which has shocked the scientists as the area around southern South America has generally strong circulation patterns even in summer (the "roaring 40s" are located in the region), which prevents extended heat events like the ones more often seen in northern Hemisphere summers. This is also why tropical cyclones do not generally form in the southern Atlantic, as the atmospheric winds are too strong and disrupt cyclones from strengthening. It is possible that in the future more tropical cyclones could form that could particularly hit Brazil, as it happened in 2004.

The dome will re-strengthen this weekend. Scientists warn that if even part of this type of heat dome someday extends into the Antarctic regions (the southern edge of this heat dome at one point reached latitude 47), a "melt-pulse" event could be triggered.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 022-01-11/
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15202
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:18 pm

Not feeling it.... Facing down an ice storm/Snow storm this weekend, after waking up to freezing temp.
:cold: :duck:

Seriously though Climate change means that the extremes of weather can be more extreme, as well as shifting climate events over time.

No one really thinks about the long term effect of 3-4 weeks of more heat or more intense heat in the long scheme of things, but these are items that can make droughts longer, storms stronger, flooding more intense, and shorter winters for cooling off the ocean and keeping those ice packs in place at the poles.

We are heating up the earth, and at this point, it seems we are just going to have to adapt.
 
pune
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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Thu Jan 13, 2022 10:45 pm

I can only derive from what I know, I have never known winter this strong and this long. We started experiencing winter since September and now it's January and forecasts tell the weather is gonna be the same till February at the very least. Pune hasn't felt such wintry spells for a long time. Sadly, most weather vanes seem to record 5 degrees more than our cellphone sensors. No clue why there is so much of a difference.
 
Derico
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:47 pm

The truth is that most of us are also not ready to do the real sacrifices that are needed to really make an impact. It would be nice to think that if companies did their fair share of investing in green, and that if truly revolutionary technologies had not been impeded by greedy corporations protecting their own skin years ago, it would be solved. But the biggest difference will be billions of individuals making rather big changes. I don't think most people in the developed world are willing to, and certainly even less people in the rising economies of the far east and some other areas, who will not even give a thought to abandon their aspirations of a rise in their material and consumption capabilites.

pune wrote:
I can only derive from what I know, I have never known winter this strong and this long. We started experiencing winter since September and now it's January and forecasts tell the weather is gonna be the same till February at the very least. Pune hasn't felt such wintry spells for a long time. Sadly, most weather vanes seem to record 5 degrees more than our cellphone sensors. No clue why there is so much of a difference.


That's interesting. Perhaps it's because of increased cloud cover compared to the past? Perhaps there is a weakening of the boundaries between wet and dry seasons. Just totally speculating as I am not familiar with the climate of the region.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:41 am

We are the virus to the Earth that has grown out of control so she is trying to burn us out like a fever. Just wait until she gets a vaccine shot from from outer space!!
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 8546
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:17 am

"Australia has equalled its hottest day on record after a remote coastal town reported temperatures of 50.7C (123.26F).
The temperature in Onslow, Western Australia, on Thursday matched a record set in 1962 in South Australia."

So many extremes around the globe in the last 12 months.
 
Derico
Topic Author
Posts: 4553
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:18 am

readytotaxi wrote:
"Australia has equalled its hottest day on record after a remote coastal town reported temperatures of 50.7C (123.26F).
The temperature in Onslow, Western Australia, on Thursday matched a record set in 1962 in South Australia."

So many extremes around the globe in the last 12 months.


The interesting thing about the South American/Argentina centered heat wave is that in the southern Hemisphere summer, the center of heat of the planet is regularly over Australia, due to the fact that Australia (with the dry the Outback areas), does go well into the Tropics. So normally it is there where the highest heat domes are located. If not there, it will be over South America just north of the Tropic of Capricorn (Paraguay, northern provinces of Argentina, southwestern Brazil).

This time the entire dome was basically south of the tropic line, and in an area surrounded by two oceans and therefore more dynamic in moving weather patterns quickly. The temperatures are quite hot but not Earth shattering, what is surprising is how this feature has been able to just stay in place so long at such an unusual latitude and geographic location.

The bad part is that if these heat domes "singe" the Antarctic, scientists say that over a few decades it would disrupt the cold ocean circulation that surrounds Antarctica. If that happens there would be massive warmer water intrusion onto the southern ice, and that would create an extremely dangerous scenario for the stability of the ice caps.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4357
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
Not feeling it.... Facing down an ice storm/Snow storm this weekend, after waking up to freezing temp.
:cold: :duck:

Seriously though Climate change means that the extremes of weather can be more extreme, as well as shifting climate events over time.

No one really thinks about the long term effect of 3-4 weeks of more heat or more intense heat in the long scheme of things, but these are items that can make droughts longer, storms stronger, flooding more intense, and shorter winters for cooling off the ocean and keeping those ice packs in place at the poles.

We are heating up the earth, and at this point, it seems we are just going to have to adapt.


I know you know this but in most models climate change does mean very unstable jet streams which does mean that places that haven't generally dealt with it might be dealing with snowstorms and freezing events one week and 75 degree weather the next.

You can expect the events of what happened in Texas last February to be more common than it has been in the past. Cities that haven't are going to have to start planning for winter weather that their infrastructure was not designed for. IIRC the week after the storm in February is was in the 70's in DFW and AUS.

Derico wrote:
The truth is that most of us are also not ready to do the real sacrifices that are needed to really make an impact. It would be nice to think that if companies did their fair share of investing in green, and that if truly revolutionary technologies had not been impeded by greedy corporations protecting their own skin years ago, it would be solved. But the biggest difference will be billions of individuals making rather big changes. I don't think most people in the developed world are willing to, and certainly even less people in the rising economies of the far east and some other areas, who will not even give a thought to abandon their aspirations of a rise in their material and consumption capabilites.


The honest truth is that there is no way to achieve a significant change regarding climate change unless there is a significant decrease in the standard of living for most of the western world and a lot of the newly developed world that have industrialized in the last 30-50 years. We simply aren't there yet to provide the sustainable energy sources without burning carbon and there are a lot of people who don't want to decarbonize and that holds up the transition. Each year we delay is one year we have lost.

Also its really rich of the western nations who have enjoyed a good standard of living for much longer than China, India and other nations to tell them that they can't have our standard of living because the west says so.

If you watch "Before the Flood" and Indian woman gets a Leonardo DiCaprio for saying exactly that.

This means things like Carbon taxes and caps on things like red meat, flying, how big of a car you have, size of residences etc. It has been said in some circles that Covid restrictions are basically a dry run for climate restrictions. Granted a 4 day work week and more common work from home might actually help with climate change as there will be less cars on the road and less comminuting needs.

One of the biggest failings of covid restrictions is that its only for the people and not the elites. Do you think they will give up their yachts and private jets?
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15202
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:13 pm

StarAC17 wrote:


I know you know this but in most models climate change does mean very unstable jet streams which does mean that places that haven't generally dealt with it might be dealing with snowstorms and freezing events one week and 75 degree weather the next.

You can expect the events of what happened in Texas last February to be more common than it has been in the past. Cities that haven't are going to have to start planning for winter weather that their infrastructure was not designed for. IIRC the week after the storm in February is was in the 70's in DFW and AUS.


Yes, it is a very big issue, especially as the polar caps melth and slow down the ocean currents. People forget how much we depend on fronts/storms/High/.low pressure to move heat and cooling around.
As we change the ocean currents we also change some of the moderation they provide. Think of the Canadian, Western European climates if the Gulf stream slowed down to half it's current speed.

https://www.livescience.com/gulf-stream ... hange.html

The team concluded that, at the current rate of climate change, the Gulf Stream's flow could weaken by an additional 45% by the year 2100, plunging the current close to a critical tipping point. If the flow continues to weaken (or collapse entirely), the effects could be severe.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4357
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:


I know you know this but in most models climate change does mean very unstable jet streams which does mean that places that haven't generally dealt with it might be dealing with snowstorms and freezing events one week and 75 degree weather the next.

You can expect the events of what happened in Texas last February to be more common than it has been in the past. Cities that haven't are going to have to start planning for winter weather that their infrastructure was not designed for. IIRC the week after the storm in February is was in the 70's in DFW and AUS.


Yes, it is a very big issue, especially as the polar caps melth and slow down the ocean currents. People forget how much we depend on fronts/storms/High/.low pressure to move heat and cooling around.
As we change the ocean currents we also change some of the moderation they provide. Think of the Canadian, Western European climates if the Gulf stream slowed down to half it's current speed.

https://www.livescience.com/gulf-stream ... hange.html

The team concluded that, at the current rate of climate change, the Gulf Stream's flow could weaken by an additional 45% by the year 2100, plunging the current close to a critical tipping point. If the flow continues to weaken (or collapse entirely), the effects could be severe.


I don't know how much Canada would be affected. The gulf stream probably has an effect pushing tropical air anywhere east of Ontario especially in the summer.

Europe would be more like Canada and Russia. People don't realize that most major European cities are north of New York in Latitude. (41 deg N) Even the most southern ones are the same latitude of DC. Lisbon and Athens are 37-38 deg N

Here are some latitudes of European cities. Working from Memory

London - 51N
Paris - 49N
Madrid - 40N
Rome - 40N
Berlin - 52N
Amsterdam - 52N

All of the Scandinavian countries are close to 60N

If in North America they would be frozen most of the year.
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 960
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:20 am

StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Not feeling it.... Facing down an ice storm/Snow storm this weekend, after waking up to freezing temp.
:cold: :duck:

Seriously though Climate change means that the extremes of weather can be more extreme, as well as shifting climate events over time.

No one really thinks about the long term effect of 3-4 weeks of more heat or more intense heat in the long scheme of things, but these are items that can make droughts longer, storms stronger, flooding more intense, and shorter winters for cooling off the ocean and keeping those ice packs in place at the poles.

We are heating up the earth, and at this point, it seems we are just going to have to adapt.


I know you know this but in most models climate change does mean very unstable jet streams which does mean that places that haven't generally dealt with it might be dealing with snowstorms and freezing events one week and 75 degree weather the next.

You can expect the events of what happened in Texas last February to be more common than it has been in the past. Cities that haven't are going to have to start planning for winter weather that their infrastructure was not designed for. IIRC the week after the storm in February is was in the 70's in DFW and AUS.

Derico wrote:
The truth is that most of us are also not ready to do the real sacrifices that are needed to really make an impact. It would be nice to think that if companies did their fair share of investing in green, and that if truly revolutionary technologies had not been impeded by greedy corporations protecting their own skin years ago, it would be solved. But the biggest difference will be billions of individuals making rather big changes. I don't think most people in the developed world are willing to, and certainly even less people in the rising economies of the far east and some other areas, who will not even give a thought to abandon their aspirations of a rise in their material and consumption capabilites.


The honest truth is that there is no way to achieve a significant change regarding climate change unless there is a significant decrease in the standard of living for most of the western world and a lot of the newly developed world that have industrialized in the last 30-50 years. We simply aren't there yet to provide the sustainable energy sources without burning carbon and there are a lot of people who don't want to decarbonize and that holds up the transition. Each year we delay is one year we have lost.

Also its really rich of the western nations who have enjoyed a good standard of living for much longer than China, India and other nations to tell them that they can't have our standard of living because the west says so.

If you watch "Before the Flood" and Indian woman gets a Leonardo DiCaprio for saying exactly that.

This means things like Carbon taxes and caps on things like red meat, flying, how big of a car you have, size of residences etc. It has been said in some circles that Covid restrictions are basically a dry run for climate restrictions. Granted a 4 day work week and more common work from home might actually help with climate change as there will be less cars on the road and less comminuting needs.

One of the biggest failings of covid restrictions is that its only for the people and not the elites. Do you think they will give up their yachts and private jets?




“ It has been said in some circles that Covid restrictions are basically a dry run for climate restrictions.”

Conspiracy theorists believe there’s an agenda behind everything.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15202
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:27 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Not feeling it.... Facing down an ice storm/Snow storm this weekend, after waking up to freezing temp.
:cold: :duck:

Seriously though Climate change means that the extremes of weather can be more extreme, as well as shifting climate events over time.

No one really thinks about the long term effect of 3-4 weeks of more heat or more intense heat in the long scheme of things, but these are items that can make droughts longer, storms stronger, flooding more intense, and shorter winters for cooling off the ocean and keeping those ice packs in place at the poles.

We are heating up the earth, and at this point, it seems we are just going to have to adapt.


I know you know this but in most models climate change does mean very unstable jet streams which does mean that places that haven't generally dealt with it might be dealing with snowstorms and freezing events one week and 75 degree weather the next.

You can expect the events of what happened in Texas last February to be more common than it has been in the past. Cities that haven't are going to have to start planning for winter weather that their infrastructure was not designed for. IIRC the week after the storm in February is was in the 70's in DFW and AUS.

Derico wrote:
The truth is that most of us are also not ready to do the real sacrifices that are needed to really make an impact. It would be nice to think that if companies did their fair share of investing in green, and that if truly revolutionary technologies had not been impeded by greedy corporations protecting their own skin years ago, it would be solved. But the biggest difference will be billions of individuals making rather big changes. I don't think most people in the developed world are willing to, and certainly even less people in the rising economies of the far east and some other areas, who will not even give a thought to abandon their aspirations of a rise in their material and consumption capabilites.


The honest truth is that there is no way to achieve a significant change regarding climate change unless there is a significant decrease in the standard of living for most of the western world and a lot of the newly developed world that have industrialized in the last 30-50 years. We simply aren't there yet to provide the sustainable energy sources without burning carbon and there are a lot of people who don't want to decarbonize and that holds up the transition. Each year we delay is one year we have lost.

Also its really rich of the western nations who have enjoyed a good standard of living for much longer than China, India and other nations to tell them that they can't have our standard of living because the west says so.

If you watch "Before the Flood" and Indian woman gets a Leonardo DiCaprio for saying exactly that.

This means things like Carbon taxes and caps on things like red meat, flying, how big of a car you have, size of residences etc. It has been said in some circles that Covid restrictions are basically a dry run for climate restrictions. Granted a 4 day work week and more common work from home might actually help with climate change as there will be less cars on the road and less comminuting needs.

One of the biggest failings of covid restrictions is that its only for the people and not the elites. Do you think they will give up their yachts and private jets?




“ It has been said in some circles that Covid restrictions are basically a dry run for climate restrictions.”

Conspiracy theorists believe there’s an agenda behind everything.


Climate restrictions are called brownouts/blackouts and natural disasters. We already have those.
 
Derico
Topic Author
Posts: 4553
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Earth's heat center shifts entirely outside tropics, Buenos Aires hits 41.5C

Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:51 pm

Are brownouts about electricity or about landscaping? I was reading recently how in the USA California has started to place severe permanent restrictions on non-native gardens and green spaces, and many of the wealthy owners are unhappy about that. Something similar has begun in Mendoza province, Argentina, where people love to water their gardens for hours and then you have hundreds of wineries that also like having exuberant grounds for both status and for tourism purposes.

People that decide to live in places with year round sunshine like these two areas should really get their heads out of the sand and understand there is a price to pay for the year round happy weather. They are living in a semi desert or in Mediterranean scrubland after all.

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