I can’t begin to imagine what it was l8ke for 13 hours as hostages inside their synagogue. The rabbi is a friend and colleague, a bridge builder among all faiths.

Hate is truly hate.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/texas- ... index.html

I am glad none of the hostages was harmed. Seems like he wasn't going to come out without a fight. Once the flash bang grenade was used his fate was sealed. I do not know why they won't release his name. Terrorism can't be tolerated.

NIKV69 wrote:

I do not know why they won't release his name. Terrorism can't be tolerated.

What would that achieve other than make him a hero and a martyr to those who support his cause?
That being said, I suspect it will become public soon anyway.

NIKV69 wrote:

I am glad none of the hostages was harmed. Seems like he wasn't going to come out without a fight. Once the flash bang grenade was used his fate was sealed. I do not know why they won't release his name. Terrorism can't be tolerated.

So that he doesn't become a hero and inspire others who can't wait to land themselves in Gitmo.

Francoflier wrote:

What would that achieve other than make him a hero and a martyr to those who support his cause?
That being said, I suspect it will become public soon anyway.

It already has actually as which is why the FBI and MSM should follow suit. He has been dead for hours already and ID is simple at this point.

NIKV69 wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

What would that achieve other than make him a hero and a martyr to those who support his cause?
That being said, I suspect it will become public soon anyway.

It already has actually as which is why the FBI and MSM should follow suit. He has been dead for hours already and ID is simple at this point.

But again, why?
Why publicize a terrorist?

I'd rather they praised the FBI team who successfully got the hostages out, although they can't name them for obvious security reasons.

Francoflier wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

What would that achieve other than make him a hero and a martyr to those who support his cause?
That being said, I suspect it will become public soon anyway.

It already has actually as which is why the FBI and MSM should follow suit. He has been dead for hours already and ID is simple at this point.

But again, why?
Why publicize a terrorist?

I'd rather they praised the FBI team who successfully got the hostages out, although they can't name them for obvious security reasons.

Adolf Hitler's team used terrorism to further his agenda. Joseph Stalin did the same. Pol Pot, Osama Bin Laden... why should the agents of terror not be identified and the cause in whose name they acted? I want to know what these factions are and for what they stand... and the names of people engaging in terrorist activities in their furtherance.

Name of hostage taker has been released: Malik Faisal Akhram. Age: 44. Nationality: British.

The hostage-taker was heard demanding the release of Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani neuroscientist who is currently serving an 86-year prison term in the US, law enforcement officials told local media.

Siddiqui was convicted of trying to kill US military officers while in custody in Afghanistan. Thousands took to the streets in Pakistan to protest against her conviction in 2010.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60014006

Muslim (I guess) terrorist died in the synagogue.

art wrote:

Name of hostage taker has been released: Malik Faisal Akhram. Age: 44. Nationality: British.

The hostage-taker was heard demanding the release of Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani neuroscientist who is currently serving an 86-year prison term in the US, law enforcement officials told local media.

Siddiqui was convicted of trying to kill US military officers while in custody in Afghanistan. Thousands took to the streets in Pakistan to protest against her conviction in 2010.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60014006

Muslim (I guess) terrorist died in the synagogue.

The article makes it clear that this guy was committed to his cause, but no one in his family supported it. I commend the FBI and local officials with bringing this standoff to a conclusion that kept everyone else safe.

art wrote:

Name of hostage taker has been released: Malik Faisal Akhram. Age: 44. Nationality: British.

The hostage-taker was heard demanding the release of Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani neuroscientist who is currently serving an 86-year prison term in the US, law enforcement officials told local media.

Siddiqui was convicted of trying to kill US military officers while in custody in Afghanistan. Thousands took to the streets in Pakistan to protest against her conviction in 2010.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60014006

Muslim (I guess) terrorist died in the synagogue.

Terrorism in any form can't not be tolerated. We were very lucky this guy didn't harm anyone and the FBI team did an amazing job of talking to him for hours and picked the perfect moment to deploy the flash bang and get the hostages out and neutralize the threat.

Apparently in Pakistan they really believe the woman he wanted freed is innocent. Why are we allied with that country, again ?

It boggles my mind how this Dr. Aafia Siddiqui with a solid science background who went to MIT as transfer student (MIT takes very few transfers) and Ph.D in neuroscience could become so radicalized. Apparently, from a wikipedia article even some her doctoral publications were contentious. She tried to publish on article on Fetal Alcohol syndrome and tried to draw the conclusion that "science proves why God bans alcohol in the Quran" and when people complained she tried pull some discrimination crap. This in addition to the vitriolic anti-semitic junk she's spewed over the years including not wanting jews on the jury for her trial nor having jewish layers. Pathetic. It's sad because she had the potential to become a scholar and I just see it as a colossal waste of talent.

#phugoid1982
Don't people who think that everyone must believe in their religion make the world such a happier place to live in.

art wrote:

I want to know what these factions are and for what they stand... and the names of people engaging in terrorist activities in their furtherance.

Generally dogmatic belief in superiority through being born within an arbitrary national border or having the correct sky daddy, often teamed with socially enforced sexual repression and targeting young hormonal men toward a natural tendency for aggression and violence.

If we were to remove the acceptance in society that adult belief in fairy stories and patriotic exceptionalism are good things then we’d go a long way to getting rid of the crazies in the world.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”


― G.K. Chesterton

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”


― G.K. Chesterton

Sure, try explaining such aphorisms to Islamists. They are convinced their fundie views are what God wants.

Sorry to say, but the argument of religious belief quelling violence is a pretty terrible one.

BBC reports that Greater Manchester Police in the north of England have arrested two teenagers in connection with investigations into the attack on the synagogue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60019251

The president said the attacker had apparently bought weapons after he landed in the US.

How could he legally buy weapons?

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”


― G.K. Chesterton

god as a belief plug.

This man clearly does not believe in sequiturs.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”


― G.K. Chesterton

Nuts

— general Anthony McAuliffe

In that case, what about Stalin, Hitler, Mao and Pol Pot.

AFAIK, none was particularly religious.

Most of the non-believers I know are allied with believers of the 'Trump is the world's redeemer' bunch. Go figure.

art wrote:

BBC reports that Greater Manchester Police in the north of England have arrested two teenagers in connection with investigations into the attack on the synagogue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60019251

The president said the attacker had apparently bought weapons after he landed in the US.

How could he legally buy weapons?

Weapons doesn't always have to mean "firearms". He could have bought a baseball bat or a hunting knife.

johns624 wrote:

art wrote:

BBC reports that Greater Manchester Police in the north of England have arrested two teenagers in connection with investigations into the attack on the synagogue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60019251

The president said the attacker had apparently bought weapons after he landed in the US.

How could he legally buy weapons?

Weapons doesn't always have to mean "firearms". He could have bought a baseball bat or a hunting knife.

Sure weapons are not necessarily firearms but it seems that on this occasion the weapon was a firearm:

Jan 16 (Reuters) - A gunman who took four people hostage at a Dallas-area synagogue and was himself killed as federal agents stormed the temple was identified on Sunday as a British citizen...

I heard the rabbi concerned being interviewed. He said he heard a click. Isn't that sound a gun can make? I do not recall if he continued to say he saw a firearm.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”


― G.K. Chesterton

This is of course off topic, don't really know what it has to do with anything. The reality is that people are always capable of believing in anything. We always have been. And believing in God isn't any better than not believing. It doesn't make one good or act responsibly. As history has proven.

So what exactly is this quote supposed to demonstrate regarding the topic of this thread?

Tugg

art wrote:

johns624 wrote:

art wrote:

BBC reports that Greater Manchester Police in the north of England have arrested two teenagers in connection with investigations into the attack on the synagogue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60019251


How could he legally buy weapons?

Weapons doesn't always have to mean "firearms". He could have bought a baseball bat or a hunting knife.

Sure weapons are not necessarily firearms but it seems that on this occasion the weapon was a firearm:

Jan 16 (Reuters) - A gunman who took four people hostage at a Dallas-area synagogue and was himself killed as federal agents stormed the temple was identified on Sunday as a British citizen...

I heard the rabbi concerned being interviewed. He said he heard a click. Isn't that sound a gun can make? I do not recall if he continued to say he saw a firearm.

Could've been a BB or replica gun.

It seems the news stopped reporting once it was revealed that the perpetrator was a british national named Malik Faisal Akram.

NIKV69 wrote:

I am glad none of the hostages was harmed. Seems like he wasn't going to come out without a fight. Once the flash bang grenade was used his fate was sealed. I do not know why they won't release his name. Terrorism can't be tolerated.

They did release his name its Malik Faisal Akram

Those British people are just so violent! I can see why they can't be trusted with guns...or knives. My wife watches Masterpiece Theatre and you have constant murders in these quaint little villages...Endeavour, Foyle's War, Sherlock Holmes, Midsommer Murders, Inspector Morse, Vera, etc. (sarcasm)

Wow glad someone spoke up.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/17/jewish-le ... SocialFlow

I watched this from start to finish and it was insulting. Worse it's not ignorance it's a choreographed effort by not only the people doing it but the media as well. I heard pundits actually making the terrorist to be the victim. It was very insulting.

NIKV69 wrote:

Wow glad someone spoke up.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/17/jewish-le ... SocialFlow

I watched this from start to finish and it was insulting. Worse it's not ignorance it's a choreographed effort by not only the people doing it but the media as well. I heard pundits actually making the terrorist to be the victim. It was very insulting.

Eh, I don't buy the guy who spoke up either. He wasn't there, he wasn't a hostage not does he know anyone directly. So I am still not done with assessing things. And if you are deciding based on this then you are only looking for confirmation of whatever you already believe and not just open to the information that comes out of this.

That is the thing I am most disgusted with us as a nation nowadays. What we have become. We are not open minded, interested in and open to facts. No, everyone just wants their own little world and to have what makes them comfortable (as in what confirms what they already think or believe). That's it.

I think being uncomfortable is a good thing. I have my biases and beliefs but I work to be open and to review the information available. No "holier than thou", I am as screwed up as the next person but I am trying to be open. This case looks like there is antisemitism at play but do not know how much it really is and am confident it will come out as things progress. We don't need to know answers instantly. We should not try to make our minds up instantly. Whatever side of the issue you are on.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

Eh, I don't buy the guy who spoke up either. He wasn't there, he wasn't a hostage not does he know anyone directly.

Tugg

He didn't have to be, the way the FBI and media covered this was very insulting. We can wait as long as you want for the facts to come out, it's fine but it was very insulting to hear the same pundits etc try to whitewash this event.

On a better note the Rabbi involved was on CNN and wow what a hero. Threw a chair at the terrorist when they knew they had to run. Incredible.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/17/us/texas ... index.html

NIKV69 wrote:

On a better note the Rabbi involved was on CNN and wow what a hero. Threw a chair at the terrorist when they knew they had to run. Incredible.

Good guy with a chair ends armed siege.

Don't tell the NRA!

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

― G.K. Chesterton

When men chose to believe a quotation and attribute that quotation incorrectly, they then become capable of believing anything.

scbriml wrote:

Good guy with a chair ends armed siege.

Don't tell the NRA!

One of the other hostages, Jeffrey Cohen just gave CNN a harrowing account of the events. Including how he dialed 911 and put his phone upside down and walked away, how they staged the pizza when it came to facilitate their escape etc. All prior training. Also made it clear the FBI raid was after they had escaped and that they escaped on their own. Well done. He also pointed out the terrorist was reciting all the lines we hear from antisemites that they jews run the world, the banks etc. I will post link when it is available. Very harrowing but good to see the training saved all their lives.

art wrote:

johns624 wrote:

art wrote:

BBC reports that Greater Manchester Police in the north of England have arrested two teenagers in connection with investigations into the attack on the synagogue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60019251


How could he legally buy weapons?

Weapons doesn't always have to mean "firearms". He could have bought a baseball bat or a hunting knife.

Sure weapons are not necessarily firearms but it seems that on this occasion the weapon was a firearm:

Jan 16 (Reuters) - A gunman who took four people hostage at a Dallas-area synagogue and was himself killed as federal agents stormed the temple was identified on Sunday as a British citizen...

I heard the rabbi concerned being interviewed. He said he heard a click. Isn't that sound a gun can make? I do not recall if he continued to say he saw a firearm.

WFAA CH. 8 in Dallas showed exclusive footage their cameraman took of the three hostages escaping out a side door, and then a few seconds later, the armed hostage taker stepped partially out of the door, with the gun clearly drawn, and then he quickly went back inside the synagogue.

The first time that WFAA showed the footage, they did not blur the images of the faces of the hostages escaping. But even in discussing the footage a little later, WFAA did not make any remark about the gunman that appeared at the end of the video.
Tonight, on the BBC news show broadcast on PBS stations, they showed the WFAA video, but they cut out the end of the video, and did not show the hostage taker brefly stepping out of the door and then going back inside.


WFAA report with their exclusive video of the hostages escaping from a side door of the synagogue.
https://youtu.be/T2FtUN8Letg

NIKV69 wrote:

One of the other hostages, Jeffrey Cohen just gave CNN a harrowing account of the events. Including how he dialed 911 and put his phone upside down and walked away, how they staged the pizza when it came to facilitate their escape etc. All prior training. Also made it clear the FBI raid was after they had escaped and that they escaped on their own. Well done. He also pointed out the terrorist was reciting all the lines we hear from antisemites that they jews run the world, the banks etc. I will post link when it is available. Very harrowing but good to see the training saved all their lives.

I was going to point out the rabbi's and Cohen comments as well. Their accounts are is one I feel is accurate and fair minded. The action of the people involved were good and effective.

You seem to deride and diminish the actions of law enforcement in this event and conveniently ignore Cohen and the rabbi's comments on how they helped them:

, Cytron-Walker and his congregation had participated in security courses with law enforcement agencies, he said.
[...]
"Without the instruction we received, we would not have been prepared to act and flee when the situation presented itself."
[...]
They spoke with Akram and asked him questions, trying to buy the FBI time to move into position, he wrote.

This is not one sided and happily not a tragedy. Law enforcement did its job. And the victims didn't accept being just that.

Tugg

NIKV69 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Eh, I don't buy the guy who spoke up either. He wasn't there, he wasn't a hostage not does he know anyone directly.

Tugg

He didn't have to be, the way the FBI and media covered this was very insulting. We can wait as long as you want for the facts to come out, it's fine but it was very insulting to hear the same pundits etc try to whitewash this event.

On a better note the Rabbi involved was on CNN and wow what a hero. Threw a chair at the terrorist when they knew they had to run. Incredible.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/17/us/texas ... index.html

As a media observer, I would also say it's insulting that rags like the NYP look for *any* opportunity to slag the FBI, especially since Russiagate. Like any large agency, the FBI is not perfect, but they keep hundreds of millions of Americans safe on the daily, and that deserves some credit.

scbriml wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

“When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”

― G.K. Chesterton

When men chose to believe a quotation and attribute that quotation incorrectly, they then become capable of believing anything.

Emile Cammaerts in Chesterton, the Laughing Prophet

Aaron747 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Eh, I don't buy the guy who spoke up either. He wasn't there, he wasn't a hostage not does he know anyone directly.

Tugg

He didn't have to be, the way the FBI and media covered this was very insulting. We can wait as long as you want for the facts to come out, it's fine but it was very insulting to hear the same pundits etc try to whitewash this event.

On a better note the Rabbi involved was on CNN and wow what a hero. Threw a chair at the terrorist when they knew they had to run. Incredible.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/17/us/texas ... index.html

As a media observer, I would also say it's insulting that rags like the NYP look for *any* opportunity to slag the FBI, especially since Russiagate. Like any large agency, the FBI is not perfect, but they keep hundreds of millions of Americans safe on the daily, and that deserves some credit.

Have you read the history of the FBI, look up Whitey Bulger, Greg Scarpa, mass murderers while the FBI used them as informers. Hoover held power over politicians of both parties, blackmailing them after conducting spying operations. Let the Mafia run rampant while denying it even existed.

The FBI failed to act on information on several of the mass shooters, see Parkland, Orlando. I’m not impressed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/p ... ateen.html

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

He didn't have to be, the way the FBI and media covered this was very insulting. We can wait as long as you want for the facts to come out, it's fine but it was very insulting to hear the same pundits etc try to whitewash this event.

On a better note the Rabbi involved was on CNN and wow what a hero. Threw a chair at the terrorist when they knew they had to run. Incredible.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/17/us/texas ... index.html

As a media observer, I would also say it's insulting that rags like the NYP look for *any* opportunity to slag the FBI, especially since Russiagate. Like any large agency, the FBI is not perfect, but they keep hundreds of millions of Americans safe on the daily, and that deserves some credit.

Have you read the history of the FBI, look up Whitey Bulger, Greg Scarpa, mass murderers while the FBI used them as informers. Hoover held power over politicians of both parties, blackmailing them after conducting spying operations. Let the Mafia run rampant while denying it even existed.

The FBI failed to act on information on several of the mass shooters, see Parkland, Orlando. I’m not impressed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/p ... ateen.html

I have a relative who is FBI-retired and she worked 12+ hour days for 20+ years before moving on to private investigations. It's not a cushy do-nothing 9-6 federal job by any means, if that's what you're insinuating. Hardly knew her kid growing up, worked through holidays, family events, etc. As a career pro aviator, that should at least ring true.

WFAA Extended uncut video/audio from outside, of the hostages escape, and the takedown of the terrorist.

https://www.wfaa.com/video/news/local/u ... b33ad56876

Tugger wrote:

I was going to point out the rabbi's and Cohen comments as well. Their accounts are is one I feel is accurate and fair minded.

That is nice seeing they were actually there and that is a given.

Tugger wrote:

You seem to deride and diminish the actions of law enforcement in this event and conveniently ignore Cohen and the rabbi's comments on how they helped them:

After the fact. The four hostages lived and escaped solely on their own training for this very terrorist situation. The FBI helped them after they were out of the building. To be honest I kind of get the feeling if they didn't and the FBI tried to rescue them it may have been different. I am not deriding the FBI but they are being controlled by politicians and these politicians IMO have not been proactive when it comes to Islamic terrorism and especially against the Jewish population. The narrative and the current administration has them concentrating on other targets. Personally, I think Israel and the Jewish world deserves better. To be honest the IDF is much better than our FBI when it comes to these matters.

NIKV69 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

I was going to point out the rabbi's and Cohen comments as well. Their accounts are is one I feel is accurate and fair minded.

That is nice seeing they were actually there and that is a given.

Tugger wrote:

You seem to deride and diminish the actions of law enforcement in this event and conveniently ignore Cohen and the rabbi's comments on how they helped them:

After the fact. The four hostages lived and escaped solely on their own training for this very terrorist situation. The FBI helped them after they were out of the building. To be honest I kind of get the feeling if they didn't and the FBI tried to rescue them it may have been different. I am not deriding the FBI but they are being controlled by politicians and these politicians IMO have not been proactive when it comes to Islamic terrorism and especially against the Jewish population. The narrative and the current administration has them concentrating on other targets. Personally, I think Israel and the Jewish world deserves better. To be honest the IDF is much better than our FBI when it comes to these matters.

The IDF is the military - Shin Bet is more analogous to the FBI, and Mossad analogous to the CIA.

NIKV69 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

I was going to point out the rabbi's and Cohen comments as well. Their accounts are is one I feel is accurate and fair minded.

That is nice seeing they were actually there and that is a given.

Tugger wrote:

You seem to deride and diminish the actions of law enforcement in this event and conveniently ignore Cohen and the rabbi's comments on how they helped them:

After the fact. The four hostages lived and escaped solely on their own training for this very terrorist situation. The FBI helped them after they were out of the building. To be honest I kind of get the feeling if they didn't and the FBI tried to rescue them it may have been different. I am not deriding the FBI but they are being controlled by politicians and these politicians IMO have not been proactive when it comes to Islamic terrorism and especially against the Jewish population. The narrative and the current administration has them concentrating on other targets. Personally, I think Israel and the Jewish world deserves better. To be honest the IDF is much better than our FBI when it comes to these matters.

Wow, you really are intentionally avoiding things the people involved, the rabbi and Mr. Cohen, said.

Tugg

skyservice_330 wrote:

Some are eager to talk about this event as a means to push negative messages around Muslims being terrorists ... while others are reluctant to talk about it, as the victims are of the Jewish faith.. and their anti-Semitism / Jews-control-the-world trope means they don't want to profile anything that shows Jewish people as victims etc. It is a weird tension of 'who do we hate more.'

This is ridiculous, why is it the second you discuss the fact a terrorist is Muslim is it negative? I don't see anybody saying all Muslims are bad or all of them are terrorists so I wish we could dispense with this red herring. The media is hesitant to admit what is going on because they have a different narrative that has to be pushed and don't like Radical Muslim terrorists against Jewish targets because it doesn't fit and they do anything to try to deflect which we clearly saw in this case right up to the FBI level that had to be walked back. Nobody is using this event to push an anti Muslim message they just want people to accept what is happening.

NIKV69 wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

Some are eager to talk about this event as a means to push negative messages around Muslims being terrorists ... while others are reluctant to talk about it, as the victims are of the Jewish faith.. and their anti-Semitism / Jews-control-the-world trope means they don't want to profile anything that shows Jewish people as victims etc. It is a weird tension of 'who do we hate more.'

This is ridiculous, why is it the second you discuss the fact a terrorist is Muslim is it negative? I don't see anybody saying all Muslims are bad or all of them are terrorists so I wish we could dispense with this red herring. The media is hesitant to admit what is going on because they have a different narrative that has to be pushed and don't like Radical Muslim terrorists against Jewish targets because it doesn't fit and they do anything to try to deflect which we clearly saw in this case right up to the FBI level that had to be walked back. Nobody is using this event to push an anti Muslim message they just want people to accept what is happening.

Facts! You're right, that is a red herring and the poster is trying to create an issue that isn't there. I have no problem with muslims, what I do have a problem with are muslim terrorists, and all terrorists. However, the two are separate and I am able to differentiate between the two. You're also right about the media's hesitation as it goes against their agenda.

skyservice_330 wrote:

My comment was in relation to an observation about the tension playing out and was in reference to certain far-right actors in different corners of the net (the part you omitted). It wasn't in relation to the MSM.

Ok can you name them and give us their attack on all Muslims then?