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DIRECTFLT
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Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:59 pm

Senators opened an emotional, raw debate Wednesday on voting legislation that will not pass...

It’s a stunning setback for President Joe Biden and his party.


https://apnews.com/article/voting-right ... 7036a942b0
 
NIKV69
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:12 pm

Total waste of time and useless theatre. A Schumer hallmark that will consist of also demagoguing and more division. Sinema is right when she said "disease of division" and the voters will reject it in November.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:18 pm

It is very interesting how the voting rights of Americans are being removed by Republicans State Legislatures only requiring a majority pass, while at the Fed Level, the Republicans are grand standing to allow those voting right and access to go away.

The GOP has decided they can no longer win based on ideas, but rather on lies, and abuse of the system.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/t ... cna1287671

The new legislation combines the two major voting rights measures: the Freedom to Vote Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act. All 50 Democratic and independent senators served as co-sponsors of the two bills. Though news analysts and commentators have declared the legislative fight over before it started, Senate supporters must do whatever it takes to pass the legislation, just as Senate supporters did to pass momentous civil rights legislation in the past. This battle is not over until it is over.

These protections are crucial — state legislatures passed a wave of voter suppression and election sabotage laws last year, and even more of these laws are expected in 2022.
 
Newark727
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:20 pm

The filibuster is garbage. We've already decided that judicial appointments and budgets are too important to be filibustered, and impeachment and treaties require a larger majority already per the Constitution. So what's it for? What gets blocked? What legislation is so darned important to the dignity and procedures of the Senate that it just has to have sixty votes? The answer, apparently, is anything that tries to protect black and brown Americans' access to the polls, and hence their rights. Just like they tried to filibuster civil rights legislation in the 1960s. Don't ever let them tell you that structural racism isn't real - this is what it looks like in action.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:45 pm

Newark727 wrote:
? The answer, apparently, is anything that tries to protect black and brown Americans' access to the polls, and hence their rights. Just like they tried to filibuster civil rights legislation in the 1960s. Don't ever let them tell you that structural racism isn't real - this is what it looks like in action.


How are Black and Brown Americans being blocked access to the polls?
 
Newark727
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
How are Black and Brown Americans being blocked access to the polls?


Oh, lots of ways! Drawing new legislative districts to make minority votes count less, purging voter rolls for no good reason, moving or closing polling places in minority communities, demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have - you won't find a single reference to race or ethnicity, but you couldn't in Jim Crow literacy tests either and we all saw what that was for.

https://www.splcenter.org/our-issues/voting-rights

In fact, since 2013 when the Supreme Court gutted a key provision of the Voting Rights Act – Section 5 – which provided the greatest legal protections to the most marginalized communities, we have seen states in the Deep South pass voter suppression laws that target the same communities Section 5 was enacted to safeguard. Without Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, states and local jurisdictions have implemented election changes without any regard to whether those changes will harm voters.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:13 pm

Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.
 
Newark727
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:15 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


Oh, of course there are ways to do it that aren't racist. We just aren't doing them. For some reason.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:16 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.



Why do you need Voter ID?

All you need is an address in the united states and citizenship, which you already proved when you registered.

If someone tries to vote in your name, they are found very quickly based on the roles.
 
FGITD
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 8:58 pm

That argument also leaves out that fact that most hardcore voter ID proponents would have a heart attack if they saw what IDs Canadians can vote with.

Don’t think you’d get much support in the US for saying a library card/vehicle registration combination is perfect to vote
 
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STT757
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:00 pm

How are Black and Brown Americans being blocked access to the polls?


Since when do Governor's put out their own redistricting maps that cut out minority districts.

https://www.winknews.com/2022/01/18/gov-desantis-proposed-congressional-map-cuts-majority-black-districts-by-two/

I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


I agree, but why stop there. Lets do gun laws too. It think that it is a fantastic bipartisan compromise to bundle a revamp Voter ID laws with a revamp of gun purchasing laws. It would literally save human lives.

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/difference-between-gun-laws-in-canada-and-the-us/
 
bourbon
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:19 pm

STT757 wrote:
How are Black and Brown Americans being blocked access to the polls?


Since when do Governor's put out their own redistricting maps that cut out minority districts.

https://www.winknews.com/2022/01/18/gov-desantis-proposed-congressional-map-cuts-majority-black-districts-by-two/

I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


I agree, but why stop there. Lets do gun laws too. It think that it is a fantastic bipartisan compromise to bundle a revamp Voter ID laws with a revamp of gun purchasing laws. It would literally save human lives.

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/difference-between-gun-laws-in-canada-and-the-us/


Just tell people not to commit crimes with guns. Problem solved right?

Have voter ID tied to the social security card. Surely there has to be an easy effective way to implement such a thing. (I know this involves the US government so even the simplest tasks are a pain).

The Dems used the voter ID issue as their way to circumvent the filibuster. Schumer is on record proclaiming the importance of the filibuster, but that was when it benefited him. Now that it doesn’t - he changed his tone, which all DC politicians do, so it is not just him.
Term Limits for all please.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:13 pm

casinterest wrote:

Why do you need Voter ID? .


Same reason you need it to,

1.Rent a car
2.Check in to a hotel
3. Get on the payroll at a job
4. Fly
5. Etc

So the person accross the desk knows it's you. Why does Canada do it? Why don't they let the voting rolls decide?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:51 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Why do you need Voter ID? .


Same reason you need it to,

1.Rent a car
2.Check in to a hotel
3. Get on the payroll at a job
4. Fly
5. Etc

So the person accross the desk knows it's you. Why does Canada do it? Why don't they let the voting rolls decide?



Those aren't constitutional rights.

And the method of identification is very arbitrary state by state. In NC they tend to use forms that discriminate against people by race. It is why the state Supreme Court continues to invalidate the laws that the GOP keeps coming up with.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17/10383541 ... lack-voter

The plaintiffs' case emphasized analysis from a University of Michigan professor who said Black voters are 39% more likely to lack a qualifying photo ID than white registered voters. The analysis, however, left out data on some categories of qualifying IDs.

Changes to these and other voting procedures in North Carolina once needed federal preapproval. But a 2013 U.S. Supreme Court ruling meant such "preclearance" actions were no longer required. The legislature approved the 2013 voter ID law just a few weeks after that ruling.
 
victrola
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:10 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


By what bizarre leap of logic does the Canadian healthcare system and voter ID have anything to do with each other?

Where is the fraud that necessitates voter ID? Have you ever voted in this country? You can't just walk in and say "I'm Joe Smith. Give me a ballot". You have to show your voter registration card. They have a list of voters to check you against. This system is working fine. Show me data saying we have a voter fraud problem in this country.

You and your Republican friends still want to promote the big lie that there is a problem with fraudulent voting in this country and that measures need to be taken to confront this "problem". It is ironic that the few actual cases of fraudulent voting in the last election were done by Republicans. We have a much more serious problem in this country. Election officials are being harassed, threatened with death and driven out of office. Lincoln County Georgia, a county of 250 square miles wants to reduce its voting sites from 7 to 1. Republicans have counted the votes from the last election and realized that if all eligible voters vote, they have a problem.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:01 pm

Newark727 wrote:
The filibuster is garbage. We've already decided that judicial appointments and budgets are too important to be filibustered, and impeachment and treaties require a larger majority already per the Constitution. So what's it for? What gets blocked? What legislation is so darned important to the dignity and procedures of the Senate that it just has to have sixty votes? The answer, apparently, is anything that tries to protect black and brown Americans' access to the polls, and hence their rights. Just like they tried to filibuster civil rights legislation in the 1960s. Don't ever let them tell you that structural racism isn't real - this is what it looks like in action.


What they don’t expect is for one party — be it Republican or Democrat — to change the rules in the middle of the game so that they can make all the decisions while the other party is told to sit down and keep quiet. The American people want less partisanship in this town, but everyone in this chamber knows that if the majority chooses to end the filibuster — if they choose to change the rules and put an end to democratic debate — then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse.


Guess the speaker, and the date.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:08 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Why do you need Voter ID? .


Same reason you need it to,

1.Rent a car
2.Check in to a hotel
3. Get on the payroll at a job
4. Fly
5. Etc

So the person accross the desk knows it's you. Why does Canada do it? Why don't they let the voting rolls decide?


1) Buy a gun
2) Buy alcohol
3) Buy tobacco
4) Enter a federal and many state buildings
5) Apply for a federal job

So, in my list, one is a constitutional right, two are significant rights of the person, one is the basic administrative/ministerial right (probably also under the "redress of grievance" allowance of the 1st Amendment) and the last is a basic function of federal government operation.

Yet, the best data we have is most people wait less than 20 minutes to vote, if there is significant suppression its of military personnel (most military personnel don't bother to vote while deployed, as its a waste of time) and 81 million people voted in the middle of pandemic, and the states of Delaware and New York, to name two, have basically the same requirements to prove identity, in the case of NY, approved recently in a state-wide plebiscite.

Mexico, as another state, requires photo ID to vote, and having been in Mexico for multiple elections in multiple places, the requirement represents no hardship to the majority of even working/poor Mexicans.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:11 pm

The last actual use of the filibuster would be the Democrats using it to forestall debate on the sanction of NordStream2, correct?
 
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STT757
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:33 pm

bourbon wrote:
STT757 wrote:
How are Black and Brown Americans being blocked access to the polls?


Since when do Governor's put out their own redistricting maps that cut out minority districts.

https://www.winknews.com/2022/01/18/gov-desantis-proposed-congressional-map-cuts-majority-black-districts-by-two/

I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


I agree, but why stop there. Lets do gun laws too. It think that it is a fantastic bipartisan compromise to bundle a revamp Voter ID laws with a revamp of gun purchasing laws. It would literally save human lives.

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/difference-between-gun-laws-in-canada-and-the-us/


Just tell people not to commit crimes with guns. Problem solved right?
.


The Republican Governor of Texas thinks so, he basically did that already.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/texas-abortion-law-greg-abbott-rape-incest-1271311/
 
hashtagconfused
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:16 pm

victrola wrote:

Where is the fraud that necessitates voter ID? Have you ever voted in this country? You can't just walk in and say "I'm Joe Smith. Give me a ballot". You have to show your voter registration card. They have a list of voters to check you against. This system is working fine. Show me data saying we have a voter fraud problem in this country.


in my city, i have never had to show a voter registration card. i walk in and say my name for them to find on a list and they often can not find me so i have to point it out to them to mark me off the list. i do not even think i have a registration card.
 
Newark727
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:05 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
What they don’t expect is for one party — be it Republican or Democrat — to change the rules in the middle of the game so that they can make all the decisions while the other party is told to sit down and keep quiet. The American people want less partisanship in this town, but everyone in this chamber knows that if the majority chooses to end the filibuster — if they choose to change the rules and put an end to democratic debate — then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse.


Guess the speaker, and the date.


If that argument wasn't strong enough to carry the day for either party's judicial nominations, why listen to it now? We're past that point. You could replace every single Senator in the minority party, R or D, with a sack of flour and get the same results we're seeing now. Far from encouraging consensus, the Senate is driving people to the fringes, because it's harder and harder to maintain any faith in the system as it currently exists.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:10 am

victrola wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


By what bizarre leap of logic does the Canadian healthcare system and voter ID have anything to do with each other?

Where is the fraud that necessitates voter ID? Have you ever voted in this country? You can't just walk in and say "I'm Joe Smith. Give me a ballot". You have to show your voter registration card. They have a list of voters to check you against. This system is working fine. Show me data saying we have a voter fraud problem in this country.

You and your Republican friends still want to promote the big lie that there is a problem with fraudulent voting in this country and that measures need to be taken to confront this "problem". It is ironic that the few actual cases of fraudulent voting in the last election were done by Republicans. We have a much more serious problem in this country. Election officials are being harassed, threatened with death and driven out of office. Lincoln County Georgia, a county of 250 square miles wants to reduce its voting sites from 7 to 1. Republicans have counted the votes from the last election and realized that if all eligible voters vote, they have a problem.


Jeez did you read my post? Where did I ever say you have a voter fraud problem in your country? I was doing the exact opposite if you cared to read it. Also if you read my post you would have seen that I said the people in the USA who love and want to adopt your health care system all seem to not want your voting system. I find that ironic but really it's par for the course in the party that wants everyone to believe we supress voting in the USA. Also I am not a Republican so please if we could not indulge in Identity politics.

At the end of the day I am glad two brave Senators stood up to this attempt to really stave off Democracy. It's just sad how more deranged the fringe players have gotten and their toxic rhetoric has gone to new heights. Not helping "Democracy" but they may be surprised how this will be rejected in November.
 
victrola
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:59 pm

Jeez did you read my post? Where did I ever say you have a voter fraud problem in your country? I was doing the exact opposite if you cared to read it. Also if you read my post you would have seen that I said the people in the USA who love and want to adopt your health care system all seem to not want your voting system. I find that ironic but really it's par for the course in the party that wants everyone to believe we supress voting in the USA. Also I am not a Republican so please if we could not indulge in Identity politics.

At the end of the day I am glad two brave Senators stood up to this attempt to really stave off Democracy. It's just sad how more deranged the fringe players have gotten and their toxic rhetoric has gone to new heights. Not helping "Democracy" but they may be surprised how this will be rejected in November.

So you admit that there is no voting fraud problem but you still believe we need to fix things with voting. There is only one reason why the Republicans have enacted all of this legislation recently. They counted the votes and realized that if all citizens had easy access to voting, the Republicans would be in deep trouble. Meanwhile the Republicans remain silent as Republican officials are caught submitting forged election documents. Trump supporting sycophants are appointed to election boards all across the country. They want to make it illegal to give someone standing in line to vote a drink of water in some places. They want it to be illegal for people to be driven to polling places. We see long lines to vote in areas where people of color live but easy access in places where whites live. Lincoln County Georgia wants to shut down voting locations so that there is only one place to vote in the whole county of 250 square miles. We see attempts to limit voting hours to make it harder for working people to get to the polls. Why is it that I have never had to wait more than 5 minutes to vote, while people in other precincts have to wait for hours? Election officials who did their jobs honestly are being threatened with death, And, we have 70% of Republicans who believe that the election was stolen from Trump. When are these problems going to be addressed? At the end of the day I see a political party that has contempt for democracy and the rule of law.
 
emperortk
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:22 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.


Do you also find it ironic and downright hypocritical that those same people aren't advocating for "provinces" instead of "states"? What about acknowledging the queen of England as head of state? After all, according to your logic they should be all in favor of adopting all things Canadian. It's bizarre logic to say the least.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:36 am

victrola wrote:
So you admit that there is no voting fraud problem but you still believe we need to fix things with voting..


Where did I say that? Did you read my post at all? Also if you are going to respond to my post please quote the things you say I am saying because I never said anything in that rant of yours. I favor your voting system over mine. If you read my post you would have known that.
 
victrola
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:00 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
victrola wrote:
So you admit that there is no voting fraud problem but you still believe we need to fix things with voting..


"Where did I say that? Did you read my post at all? Also if you are going to respond to my post please quote the things you say I am saying because I never said anything in that rant of yours. I favor your v Where did I ever say you have a voter fraud problem in your country?"

Either there is no voting fraud problem and therefore no voter ID laws are needed, or you believe the big lie that there is massive voting fraud in the U.S. Which one is it?


"
 
pune
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:25 pm

A friend of mine went over to the U.S. about 20 years back. First, he got a green card then naturalized himself. He is a professor in one of those ivy league colleges. He is pretty big on the democrats. Just a couple of years ago, in 2019, in India, we had large-scale elections where we didn't have enough turnout. Why, because in most places the timing for votes was between 0900 to 1700 hrs IST. Most daily-wage laborers don't come until 1900 hrs. to home. I know of many construction workers. plumbers, all hard-working people for whom the timings are just not feasible. Then my friend shared how in the U.S. you have these post-paid envelopes and you can share all your details (think those are also barcoded for security reasons). Anyways, you enter your preferential candidate and drop the same in a letterbox up to a week or two before election day in your city. The election people collect all the envelopes He has never gone to an election booth even though it is on the campus as he finds the above method much easier and more convenient. And in today's world, one could say even more hygenic. Both he and his wife have jobs so both of them use the pre-paid envelope system for a decade now.

The present Govt. doesn't want to go that way otherwise they know they will fail. In fact, in most state elections they have been faring very badly. And this is when the CEC (Chief Election Commissioner) is in their pocket. He regularly has food with the PM, photo-ops, and whatnot. That should tell you how much they try both legal and illegal ways to make themselves the winner.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:49 pm

pune wrote:
A friend of mine went over to the U.S. about 20 years back. First, he got a green card then naturalized himself. He is a professor in one of those ivy league colleges. He is pretty big on the democrats. Just a couple of years ago, in 2019, in India, we had large-scale elections where we didn't have enough turnout. Why, because in most places the timing for votes was between 0900 to 1700 hrs IST. Most daily-wage laborers don't come until 1900 hrs. to home. I know of many construction workers. plumbers, all hard-working people for whom the timings are just not feasible. Then my friend shared how in the U.S. you have these post-paid envelopes and you can share all your details (think those are also barcoded for security reasons). Anyways, you enter your preferential candidate and drop the same in a letterbox up to a week or two before election day in your city. The election people collect all the envelopes He has never gone to an election booth even though it is on the campus as he finds the above method much easier and more convenient. And in today's world, one could say even more hygenic. Both he and his wife have jobs so both of them use the pre-paid envelope system for a decade now.

The present Govt. doesn't want to go that way otherwise they know they will fail. In fact, in most state elections they have been faring very badly. And this is when the CEC (Chief Election Commissioner) is in their pocket. He regularly has food with the PM, photo-ops, and whatnot. That should tell you how much they try both legal and illegal ways to make themselves the winner.


Only a fool tries to steal an election on election day.
 
pune
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:06 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
pune wrote:
A friend of mine went over to the U.S. about 20 years back. First, he got a green card then naturalized himself. He is a professor in one of those ivy league colleges. He is pretty big on the democrats. Just a couple of years ago, in 2019, in India, we had large-scale elections where we didn't have enough turnout. Why, because in most places the timing for votes was between 0900 to 1700 hrs IST. Most daily-wage laborers don't come until 1900 hrs. to home. I know of many construction workers. plumbers, all hard-working people for whom the timings are just not feasible. Then my friend shared how in the U.S. you have these post-paid envelopes and you can share all your details (think those are also barcoded for security reasons). Anyways, you enter your preferential candidate and drop the same in a letterbox up to a week or two before election day in your city. The election people collect all the envelopes He has never gone to an election booth even though it is on the campus as he finds the above method much easier and more convenient. And in today's world, one could say even more hygenic. Both he and his wife have jobs so both of them use the pre-paid envelope system for a decade now.

The present Govt. doesn't want to go that way otherwise they know they will fail. In fact, in most state elections they have been faring very badly. And this is when the CEC (Chief Election Commissioner) is in their pocket. He regularly has food with the PM, photo-ops, and whatnot. That should tell you how much they try both legal and illegal ways to make themselves the winner.


Only a fool tries to steal an election on election day.


In India, they get away too and they have many times. There are all kinds of horror stories that have happened and has been shared on SM. There used to be a time when India welcome foreign observers to view, observe and share any issues in either state or national elections. In the last few years, there seems to be no need as GOI does thing 'correctly' . The current Govt. also made it legal for foreign companies to donate to them with a retrospective effect of 50 years. And yes, this is the 'nationalistic' party that I'm talking about.

As far as postal voting is concerned, I found it is pretty much used all over the world, so I wonder what Mr. Trump was so worried about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_voting
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14998
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:14 pm

victrola wrote:

Either there is no voting fraud problem and therefore no voter ID laws are needed, or you believe the big lie that there is massive voting fraud in the U.S. Which one is it?




"Massive voter fraud" is a propaganda term. I don't like mail in voting because you can't track the ballots once they are in USPS hands, I believe everyone should vote in person and have to show ID. If you do this and everyone proves who they are and puts in the ballot in the machine themselves you have no problems right? It is working in your country as you have said so why not in the US?
 
victrola
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:40 pm

"Massive voter fraud" is the main talking point of the Republican party. There is absolutely no problem with absentee voting. There is no need for ID. You are creating "solutions" for problems that don't exist and ignoring problems that do exist like Republican officials submitting falsified voting documents, death threats against election officials for doing their jobs, restricting voting locations and making people wait for hours to vote.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14998
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:43 pm

victrola wrote:
"Massive voter fraud" is the main talking point of the Republican party. There is absolutely no problem with absentee voting. There is no need for ID. You are creating "solutions" for problems that don't exist and ignoring problems that do exist like Republican officials submitting falsified voting documents, death threats against election officials for doing their jobs, restricting voting locations and making people wait for hours to vote.


I never said anything about absentee voting there you go again, please use the quote function next time. If there is no need for ID why does Canada do it? I will save you the trouble, the reason you have no problem is you ask for ID to vote.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:54 pm

I don't mind showing my valid driver's license to vote in Texas. I can early vote at any polling place in Dallas County. It's only hard if you make it hard.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:57 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I don't mind showing my valid driver's license to vote in Texas. I can early vote at any polling place in Dallas County. It's only hard if you make it hard.
'

Some people don't drive.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I don't mind showing my valid driver's license to vote in Texas. I can early vote at any polling place in Dallas County. It's only hard if you make it hard.
'

Some people don't drive.


Some people take an Uber, or use Public Transportation. DART announced rides on demand. And on Election Day, they usually offer free rides.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:04 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
It's only hard if you make it hard.

That's been my problem with many (most?) of the voter ID legislation that has been passed. Don't make it hard. Make it EASY.

Give a year or two notice and come into your citizens neighborhoods. Provide tools and help for them to easily get registered and the needed ID's. Make if free. Make it instantly accessible to the polling stations if the citizens forgot or lost it.

Make it EASY to get as many citizens that want to vote, able to vote.

Tugg
 
pune
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Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:16 am

NIKV69 wrote:
victrola wrote:

Either there is no voting fraud problem and therefore no voter ID laws are needed, or you believe the big lie that there is massive voting fraud in the U.S. Which one is it?




"Massive voter fraud" is a propaganda term. I don't like mail in voting because you can't track the ballots once they are in USPS hands, I believe everyone should vote in person and have to show ID. If you do this and everyone proves who they are and puts in the ballot in the machine themselves you have no problems right? It is working in your country as you have said so why not in the US?


Because that doesn't work. Our voter turnout is usually in the '30-'40s so we never get really a representative figure and in many places, it stretches the election machinery much more. Here the fraud has been done by the Govt. itself where it asked 2 public sector units to make EVM's and told the nation only about one order. Years later, using RTI (Right to Information) along with other tools we came to know about the other order given. And GOI gave all kinds of excuses which nobody bought but nobody could do nothing either. The one who was supposed to take action on it was the CEC (Chief Election Commissioner) but he chose to remain silent. After his tenure is over, he would be given a nice governorship and a golden handshake for services rendered. But all of this is distracting.

The idea is, having 20-30-40% of public giving votes is not enough. The present Govt. spends money out of its pocket to get people who would vote in their favor but if any other party tried to do the same, it would be seen at giving favors. For them, they just want to win, whether it is by fair or unfair means, it doesn't matter. In the previous general election they even made war-like situation where quite a few of our soldiers died, that is now almost 5-6 years, till date no investigation on what went wrong even though more than enough revelations have come up that said enough warnings were known and told before but people didn't act. Why they didn't act, no answers.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:17 am

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
demanding forms of ID that white voters are more likely to have


I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.



Why do you need Voter ID?

All you need is an address in the united states and citizenship, which you already proved when you registered.

If someone tries to vote in your name, they are found very quickly based on the roles.


Wait a minute! The IRS is talking about requiring a reference photo when filing federal income tax returns and getting refunds electronically. Why shouldn't states require a photo ID when voting?
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15202
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Raw US Senate debate on voting bill unlikely to end filibuster

Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:33 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

I find it ironic and downright hypocritical that the same people who yell that our health care system should be like Canada's don't share the same thoughts on their Voter ID. To vote in federal elections you have to Identity yourself there it should be done here, it's not racist that is just a cop out.



Why do you need Voter ID?

All you need is an address in the united states and citizenship, which you already proved when you registered.

If someone tries to vote in your name, they are found very quickly based on the roles.


Wait a minute! The IRS is talking about requiring a reference photo when filing federal income tax returns and getting refunds electronically. Why shouldn't states require a photo ID when voting?



Voting is in the constitution. Your above idea is actually not what the IRS is proposing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/20/irs-wil ... tools.html
An IRS spokesperson says this will not be a requirement to actually file your tax return, contrary to some other reports. You will still be able to make payments via a credit card or your bank account without logging in.

“The IRS emphasizes taxpayers can pay or file their taxes without submitting a selfie or other information to a third-party identity verification company,” the agency said in a statement. “Tax payments can be made from a bank account, by credit card or by other means without the use of facial recognition technology or registering for an account.”

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