It's called wild west for a reason!

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc. If you voted to keep Newsom in the recall then you reap what you sew.

Saw this on BBC couldn't believe it . Seems like they need 24/7 armed security .

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc.

I agree with this part of the statement, but robbing trains out west has been something going on since the beginning of railroads. (Not that I am a Newsom supporter by any standards)

It’s actually a Federal crime, but the Federal agencies can’t be bothered—FBI for one. The UP Police have limited power to stop it.

The solution (outside of enforcement), is to modify the well cars these containers travel on to not all the container to be opened while in the car.

Sadly the greed of some, the ease to access these packages due to the location and limited physical security of the boxcars, the lack of sufficient law enforcement and railroad security forces had led to this increase in theft.

The sheer volume of packages is astounding! It's also amazing that the derailed cars are just sitting there and an effort to get them moved is nowhere to be seen. What a mess

And it is not just happening in LA. Freight containers are being broken into where ever trains hold over night (or longer). (Even Texas.)
https://www.ble-t.org/pr/news/headline.asp?id=7727

The ONLY thing that reduces/stops these types of robberies is when the trains keep moving. And that ain't happening right now.

This one looks especially bad since it happened where everyone can see it and there are lots of reporters (oh that evil mainstream media, not reporting on anything). But it mostly regurgitated pictures of the same area. And the fact the boxes are just getting more and more spread out and more picked over make it look like it is happening on this scale daily in LA.

(And the derailment was repaired two days ago: https://apnews.com/article/california-l ... 4b0a694466)

Tugg

Aaron747 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc. If you voted to keep Newsom in the recall then you reap what you sew.

Wow, talk about an oversimplification. As if organized and urban crime are 'if A then B' scenarios dependent on what a governor does/says. Back to college for critical thinking boy.

Incredibly, if one knows exactly where this video was taken in Lincoln Heights, on the next street old Victorians and duplexes are priced at $800K-$1M.

Is that to imply the rich are robbing trains? Or, maybe the trains are in a ditch and hard to see from those $1 million homes? Certainly, there’s a relationship between crime and punishment.

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc. If you voted to keep Newsom in the recall then you reap what you sew.

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

It’s actually a Federal crime, but the Federal agencies can’t be bothered—FBI for one. The UP Police have limited power to stop it.

Federal law enforcement budgets have been cut year after year. Which party was in control of all three branches of government starting in 2016? Recall that spending bills must start in the House and yet they cut, cut, cut, cut, cut because "we don't want no big gubmint!"

But, both sides do it and "liberals" cut this and that so this gets a pass....

Amazing pictures, reminds me of robbing the stagecoach in the wild west.

The USA reminds me a little bit of a few airlines…..a race to the bottom!

N1120A wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc. If you voted to keep Newsom in the recall then you reap what you sew.

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

Being a Federal Crime is irrelevant in the eyes of the people doing the robbing. They are unlikely to know there is a difference. This is being created by a general sense that crime is going to go unpunished by the local leaders and they don’t seem to give a rip.

I don't really know why there is so much noise being made out of it. I have seen similar things happening in the UK (youtube has tons of videos on it), the same thing happening in India, sometimes even the local police colluding in it.) And the law enforcement officials in India know that even if they get caught on camera at the most they will get a suspension, nothing more than that.

Just few months ago, there was a drug bust in Gujarat in Adani port where they recovered a product with a street value of 3 billion dollars or something. Now in recent reports,it is claimed that rats ate all the drugs. And again, this is not new, this has been going on for years now. Most cases have been in U.P. and Bihar where rats have been supposed to eat up everything, from concrete to foodgrains meant for the poor to anything. And please, don't ask me to try to find logic in this, I have given up on that a long time.

Aaron747 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

N1120A wrote:

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

Being a Federal Crime is irrelevant in the eyes of the people doing the robbing. They are unlikely to know there is a difference. This is being created by a general sense that crime is going to go unpunished by the local leaders and they don’t seem to give a rip.

Absolutely wrong - organized crime groups are more sophisticated than you think. They know precisely what kind of crimes they are involved with. You make it sound like these are bands of morons - don't confuse large scale theft rings with your everyday meth addict purse snatcher/smash n' grab specialist.

On the money. Incidentally, the ones I am talking about in India are the same. They have all kinds of inside information about where the high-value packages are coming from. I will share an incident that tells even how the police are complicit in it. Couple of years ago, the Prime Minister's niece came to the capital with some land papers or something. She landed in the New Delhi Railway Station. And this was pre-pandemic. If anybody of you has visited India and been to the National capital or this specific station then you know how jam-packed it used to be 24x7. They got her land papers and valuables. Now the Delhi police are renowned for their inefficiency. But in this case, miraculously, as she knew the Prime Minister and kicked up a storm in social media and whatnot, the culprit was nabbed and it was found that the 'gentleman' had been part of a ring that had been doing the same for over a decade, decade and a half. Now, they couldn't get any other ill-gotten gains except a couple of other small ones but they were able to 'close' many other cases using this person. The people in the so-called ring were never caught and the case died a natural death once the property was returned to the owner. She didn't want to fight for a decade and come back to NCR (National Capital Region) again and again and she didn't really have any evidence. She hadn't even seen the person so she couldn't say one way or the other. This is how cases are 'managed' in India.

DL717 wrote:

N1120A wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc. If you voted to keep Newsom in the recall then you reap what you sew.

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

Being a Federal Crime is irrelevant in the eyes of the people doing the robbing. They are unlikely to know there is a difference. This is being created by a general sense that crime is going to go unpunished by the local leaders and they don’t seem to give a rip.

This is organized crime, not some random act of theft. The people doing this are well aware of what the consequences of being caught are.

Oh, and the incidence of property crime has actually DECREASED nationwide:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ve/620234/

While the incidence of this sort of organized theft has increased NATIONWIDE, according to retailers, though the actual numbers paint a much different story about overall property crime rates:

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... crime-rate

In other words - you're wrong.

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc.

Unfortunately true.

The solution to crime isn't to stop recording and prosecuting it. Crime is a problem here in California, its just not being documented, in my opinion.

They need to take the old crime numbers and scrub out all the incidents no longer counted and compare on that basis.

Lightsaber

N1120A wrote:

DL717 wrote:

N1120A wrote:

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

Being a Federal Crime is irrelevant in the eyes of the people doing the robbing. They are unlikely to know there is a difference. This is being created by a general sense that crime is going to go unpunished by the local leaders and they don’t seem to give a rip.

This is organized crime, not some random act of theft. The people doing this are well aware of what the consequences of being caught are.

Oh, and the incidence of property crime has actually DECREASED nationwide:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ve/620234/

While the incidence of this sort of organized theft has increased NATIONWIDE, according to retailers, though the actual numbers paint a much different story about overall property crime rates:

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... crime-rate

In other words - you're wrong.

The recording of property crime has decreased. We must normalize prior data to the current standards.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

N1120A wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Being a Federal Crime is irrelevant in the eyes of the people doing the robbing. They are unlikely to know there is a difference. This is being created by a general sense that crime is going to go unpunished by the local leaders and they don’t seem to give a rip.

This is organized crime, not some random act of theft. The people doing this are well aware of what the consequences of being caught are.

Oh, and the incidence of property crime has actually DECREASED nationwide:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ve/620234/

While the incidence of this sort of organized theft has increased NATIONWIDE, according to retailers, though the actual numbers paint a much different story about overall property crime rates:

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... crime-rate

In other words - you're wrong.

The recording of property crime has decreased. We must normalize prior data to the current standards.

Lightsaber

Compstat is what the police want it to say.

Aaron747 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

N1120A wrote:

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

Being a Federal Crime is irrelevant in the eyes of the people doing the robbing. They are unlikely to know there is a difference. This is being created by a general sense that crime is going to go unpunished by the local leaders and they don’t seem to give a rip.

Absolutely wrong - organized crime groups are more sophisticated than you think. They know precisely what kind of crimes they are involved with. You make it sound like these are bands of morons - don't confuse large scale theft rings with your everyday meth addict purse snatcher/smash n' grab specialist.

Then I guess Newsom is wasting money doing something the Feds would be responsible for…

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/01/20/gover ... ent-crime/

Aaron747 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Absolutely wrong - organized crime groups are more sophisticated than you think. They know precisely what kind of crimes they are involved with. You make it sound like these are bands of morons - don't confuse large scale theft rings with your everyday meth addict purse snatcher/smash n' grab specialist.

Then I guess Newsom is wasting money doing something the Feds would be responsible for…

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/01/20/gover ... ent-crime/

Not at all, this requires an all-of-government approach, as he indicated. Some groups are local, some are regional, some are international. It is an entire array of criminal businesses, just like you have corporations that operate regionally, while others are multinational. Not sure why it's so difficult to imagine the scale of the parallel black economy.

The FBI's purview is transnational organized crime:

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate

Let me know when it’s called organized crime. Until then, it’s looting by opportunistic thieves who know there are no consequences due to local governments being weak on crime:

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... d-security

Aaron747 wrote:

DL717 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Not at all, this requires an all-of-government approach, as he indicated. Some groups are local, some are regional, some are international. It is an entire array of criminal businesses, just like you have corporations that operate regionally, while others are multinational. Not sure why it's so difficult to imagine the scale of the parallel black economy.

The FBI's purview is transnational organized crime:

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate

Let me know when it’s called organized crime. Until then, it’s looting by opportunistic thieves who know there are no consequences due to local governments being weak on crime:

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... d-security

Perhaps it would help to be aware of what retail industry groups and their security services are calling it:

https://losspreventionmedia.com/lp-101- ... ail-crime/

https://nrf.com/blog/organized-retail-c ... ing-threat

It doesn't take a genius to see the scale and success of these theft operations require professional coordination. Logic dictates your average addict or idiot teenager cannot pull this stuff off at scale. Denialism serves no use when dealing with sophisticated criminality.

There’s no sophistication in having a set of bolt cutters and no one stopping them. Just like there’s no sophistication to smashing a store window and grabbing things on Rodeo Drive. You give them too much credit.

What I think is horrendous is that no one had demanded the rail lines CLEAN UP THE MESS!

Seriously. The rail lines are responsible for the mess and they are leaving the mess to be viewed by the world. No company or regional authority should just accept this. Amazon and the city of Los Angeles etc. should sue the rail companies or do something to get it all removed and cleaned up. It is unacceptable to be left as it is.

Tugg

The Train Theft Package Cleanup begins . . .

https://youtu.be/jPk_hBaQETc

hh65man wrote:

The USA reminds me a little bit of a few airlines…..a race to the bottom!

The state of California essentially decriminalized theft under the threshold of $1000.

Perhaps they were smarter than we knew, considering $1000 in this inflationary economy is likely a nice steak dinner for two within the next 12 months.

Aaron747 wrote:

Right, because everything is soooo simple. Whatever

When you decriminalize something, you'll get more of it.

Tugger wrote:

What I think is horrendous is that no one had demanded the rail lines CLEAN UP THE MESS!

Seriously. The rail lines are responsible for the mess and they are leaving the mess to be viewed by the world. No company or regional authority should just accept this. Amazon and the city of Los Angeles etc. should sue the rail companies or do something to get it all removed and cleaned up. It is unacceptable to be left as it is.

Tugg

No, it is the duty of the Shipper. They are responsible for affixing the security seal, not the transport company.

As per Union Pacific's Security Seal document (https://www.up.com/cs/groups/public/@up ... g-seal.pdf):

"It is solely the decision of the shipper to determine the type of protection necessary to protect the cargo, including but not limited to the use of seals and security devices."

Also logically, lets say you were shipping something that you know is easily liquidatable such as the consumer goods typically shipped by Amazon. Would you secure it with a device that can be defeated with a $20 pair of bolt cutters? Or would you spend the extra few dollars and get at least a barrier seal that requires power tools to remove as opposed to hand tools?

https://www.novavisioninc.com/pages/prd ... seals.html

meecrob wrote:

Also logically, lets say you were shipping something that you know is easily liquidatable such as the consumer goods typically shipped by Amazon. Would you secure it with a device that can be defeated with a $20 pair of bolt cutters? Or would you spend the extra few dollars and get at least a barrier seal that requires power tools to remove as opposed to hand tools?

https://www.novavisioninc.com/pages/prd ... seals.html

That would force the potential robber to shoplift (not an arrestable crime in California) a set of bolt cutters or a battery powered sawzall.

Ultimately, there is little to argue that at the end of the day, this is the clearly the effect of Prop 47, and why should any law enforcement entity want to spend the resources to stop (via expense arrest, booking, arraignment, trial) what are ultimately minor misdemeanors?

I think we need train-top Koreans.

stl07 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

When you make it clear to criminals that they won't be punished for crimes you get this behavior the smash and grabs etc.

I agree with this part of the statement, but robbing trains out west has been something going on since the beginning of railroads. (Not that I am a Newsom supporter by any standards)

Back in the day, the railroad police were called Dicks and would just as soon shoot than chase. How things have changed.

And here's a fun story on rail security (and the lack of care by anyone to actually spend the time and money to catch thieves)
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/15/10065643 ... g-grenades

Tugg

Aaron747 wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Right, because everything is soooo simple. Whatever

When you decriminalize something, you'll get more of it.

Large scale and organized theft are being actively prosecuted. Unless you are suggesting the contents of container cars are valued less than $1000.

The problem is so much petty crime is no longer recorded that the criminals are emboldened. I speculate we released a bunch of drug pushers who have moved up in their criminal enterprises.

My friends who are sheriffs in the jails are frustrated with the no bail policies increasing probems.

I recall the 1980s crime and the huge voter 1990s backlash to get tough on crime. History doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme.

Lightsaber

N1120A wrote:

Well, where to start with this steaming pile...

1) This is a federal crime. In fact, the local police may not even have separate jurisdiction on the tracks themselves, which is one of the reasons railroads are allowed to have quasi private police forces.

2) Decriminalization of low level drug crimes and non violent wobblers that were a) voted for by a substantial majority of the electorate and b) are good policy has nothing to do with the evolution of a new kind of theft driven by a change in commerce.

3) Governor Newsom won by the exact same margin as he won the 2018 election - in the face of unpopular lockdowns, bad press from that silly dinner and a vast waste of money from out of state interests against him harping on made up fear mongering like you did here. That showed just how popular the governor is and just what people think about this kind of fear mongering.

4) Personally, I like our $75.7 billion surplus, which is getting followed up by a $31+ billion surplus this year.

This is just the kind of tone deafness, head in the sand reaction we see. Denial doesn't help the problem, but you always have the great surplus which I have no idea has anything to do with this other than to deflect which is what we always see from elected officials in that area.

DL717 wrote:

Let me know when it’s called organized crime. Until then, it’s looting by opportunistic thieves who know there are no consequences due to local governments being weak on crime:

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... d-security

As was roving band of looters who would just run into a store and rob it in broad daylight.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

The Train Theft Package Cleanup begins . . .

https://youtu.be/jPk_hBaQETc

Typical Newsom, let people see me helping clean up and everything will be ok. How out of touch and weak. If I didn't see it for myself I wouldn't believe it.

Elkadad313 wrote:

Back in the day, the railroad police were called Dicks and would just as soon shoot than chase. How things have changed.

I am not sure about trains but private business owners may begin to fend for themselves if elected officials and authorities won't do something.