johns624 wrote:

I'm in the US and while I could see my next car, some years down the road, being a hybrid, I can't see a full electric in my future. Our distances are quite a bit farther than in Europe and EVs don't have the range.

M564038 wrote:

Specialized EV parts like motors and batteries are going to be very customizeable and very cheap on the 3rd party market very soon, once any substantial number of EVs are out of factory warranty. (Battery is usually 8 years). Its allready starting.

Locally here, the portion of the youngsters that culturally rather buy fancy cars than drink and party, used to drive semi new, pimped up mercs and BMWs. Now it’s all pimped up old Model Ss and new model 3s. The local pimp and repair shops are all Tesla experts now. It’s only been a couple of years since Tesla started authorising other shops than their own repair centers to do work on them, and its become its own genre of car mods now.

Another trend is parted out early EV batteries (From early Leafs and Tesla Ss) used as power banks for summer or mountain cabins, in boats, or just general high capacity batteries and back-up solutions. Local companies doing that work everywhere. Very few batteries goes to waste, and no real re-cycling, only re-purposing for the time being.

Only 8-10 year old used packs to avoid is from the american «Boeing»-brand, but distributed world wide! They are probably out there for cheap, but they are not a safe supplier!

Got a Nissan 10kWh (parts of an old Leaf) pack for our spartan rural summer house with a simple panel, to replace the old 12V camping system.
Its a whole different world!

cpd wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I'm in the US and while I could see my next car, some years down the road, being a hybrid, I can't see a full electric in my future. Our distances are quite a bit farther than in Europe and EVs don't have the range.

We have electric cars going more than 500km, surely that’s far enough? People do need to stop occasionally and have a rest. Then you recharge the car, and many of them recharge really fast at 270kw.

LCDFlight wrote:

pune wrote:

Now as far as range issues are concerned, this was done almost 2 years ago -

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/ne ... 88083.html

And now more new cars are coming and will come at the high-end that will 1000 kms. on a single charge.

https://www.bgr.in/news/ces-2022-this-m ... e-1033349/

Great. I have a sporty European car right now that can do almost 1000km per charge. It cost me very little money, and does not have an incredibly toxic EV battery. EV are a very cool luxury product (I had a Model S loaner in 2015). Super cool luxury product, but like a house in Aspen, I can appreciate it while saying it has no relevance to my real life. And I am comfortably well off. Perhaps because I do not buy things like Teslas

LCDFlight wrote:

M564038 wrote:

I stopped taking you seriously by «incredibly toxic EV battery».

Fossil fuels took 8.7 million lives in 2018.

As I said earlier in the thread. Anyone who find EVs environmentaly problematic have forgotten how insane and ghastly the world of fossile fuels are.
A yearly Holocaust. No less.

Source: https://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2021/ ... ly-thought

LCDFlight wrote:

Great. I have a sporty European car right now that can do almost 1000km per charge. It cost me very little money, and does not have an incredibly toxic EV battery. EV are a very cool luxury product (I had a Model S loaner in 2015). Super cool luxury product, but like a house in Aspen, I can appreciate it while saying it has no relevance to my real life. And I am comfortably well off. Perhaps because I do not buy things like Teslas :)

Haha. You forgot to say how many lives are saved annually by fossil fuels. Perhaps 300 million? More? I would have died today without them.

In the adult world, people make trade offs based on realism and a heavy set of responsibility. But I grant that in a child’s version of reality, things are much simpler. Everybody can buy Teslas (?) and the world will be totally saved. Even though carbon emissions alone are much more complex than that, even if we confine it to just the transport sector. And that alone takes a lifetime to understand. Many of us spent careers learning about that.

LCDFlight wrote:

M564038 wrote:

I stopped taking you seriously by «incredibly toxic EV battery».

Fossil fuels took 8.7 million lives in 2018.

As I said earlier in the thread. Anyone who find EVs environmentaly problematic have forgotten how insane and ghastly the world of fossile fuels are.
A yearly Holocaust. No less.

Source: https://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2021/ ... ly-thought

LCDFlight wrote:

Great. I have a sporty European car right now that can do almost 1000km per charge. It cost me very little money, and does not have an incredibly toxic EV battery. EV are a very cool luxury product (I had a Model S loaner in 2015). Super cool luxury product, but like a house in Aspen, I can appreciate it while saying it has no relevance to my real life. And I am comfortably well off. Perhaps because I do not buy things like Teslas

Haha. You forgot to say how many lives are saved annually by fossil fuels. Perhaps 300 million? More? I would have died today without them.

In the adult world, people make trade offs based on realism and a heavy set of responsibility. But I grant that in a child’s version of reality, things are much simpler. Everybody can buy Teslas (?) and the world will be totally saved. Even though carbon emissions alone are much more complex than that, even if we confine it to just the transport sector. And that alone takes a lifetime to understand. Many of us spent careers learning about that.

casinterest wrote:

And the really bad news for Diesel and Gas operators will be coming this year and next as the Trucks all start mass sales from Rivian, Tesla, GM, Ford and other suppliers.
https://www.tomsguide.com/news/tesla-cybertruck

cpd wrote:

However we are planning to make electric car buyers pay a tax based on the distance they drive in order to make electric cars so costly people will not buy them and existing owners will sell them.

ACDC8 wrote:

Oh yay, another EV thread

Does an EV offer me a minimum of 800km range and can be recharged in the same time it takes to fuel an ICE car with gasoline with zero long term effects on battery performance?

Nope.

Pass.

Pune and M564038 can go on all day about how that doesn't fit into "driver profiles", don't care - until an EV offers comparable convenience to current technology, many people won't buy one (not that they can afford one anyways).

pune wrote:

And I saw you are ok with the climate

pune wrote:

Also when EV's are touching 30-40 and in some places the only sales (Netherlands for e.g. as I have shared the stats. above) so even the idea of affordability doesn't even come into the picture. Month by month they are racking the numbers up, ICE vehicles are only going one way, down and down. There are also public figures of all the ICE OEM's are terribly overextended, they simply have no money for anything hence all they do day and night is try to muddy the waters.

ACDC8 wrote:

pune wrote:

And I saw you are ok with the climate

And where did you "see" this?

pune wrote:

Also when EV's are touching 30-40 and in some places the only sales (Netherlands for e.g. as I have shared the stats. above) so even the idea of affordability doesn't even come into the picture. Month by month they are racking the numbers up, ICE vehicles are only going one way, down and down. There are also public figures of all the ICE OEM's are terribly overextended, they simply have no money for anything hence all they do day and night is try to muddy the waters.

For many Canadians, 30-40K is out of reach. This is why many climate change taxes have been axed, like Vancouver's parking/car tax which was to be implemented in the next year - the people who can't afford an EV, can't afford to be taxed more than those who can afford an EV.

Don't care what they do in Holland or anywhere else in the world. And don't care what any "public figure" has to say about anything.

pune wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

pune wrote:

And I saw you are ok with the climate

And where did you "see" this?

pune wrote:

Also when EV's are touching 30-40 and in some places the only sales (Netherlands for e.g. as I have shared the stats. above) so even the idea of affordability doesn't even come into the picture. Month by month they are racking the numbers up, ICE vehicles are only going one way, down and down. There are also public figures of all the ICE OEM's are terribly overextended, they simply have no money for anything hence all they do day and night is try to muddy the waters.

For many Canadians, 30-40K is out of reach. This is why many climate change taxes have been axed, like Vancouver's parking/car tax which was to be implemented in the next year - the people who can't afford an EV, can't afford to be taxed more than those who can afford an EV.

Don't care what they do in Holland or anywhere else in the world. And don't care what any "public figure" has to say about anything.

I didn't mean 30-40 thousand dollars, I meant 30-40% of the market. This is what is happening in Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, France the figures are all there to see if one wants to look. So, are you trying to tell me that somehow Canada is poorer than all these countries ???

https://cleantechnica.com/tag/ev-sales/

And again what Mr. Munro shared is nothing but those figures can be looked and ascertained from various Annual Reports. The gentleman in fact even shared his source and as can be seen legacy auto is bleeding money hence they are doing all they can including misinforming public.

johns624 wrote:

pune wrote:

ACDC8 wrote:

And where did you "see" this?


For many Canadians, 30-40K is out of reach. This is why many climate change taxes have been axed, like Vancouver's parking/car tax which was to be implemented in the next year - the people who can't afford an EV, can't afford to be taxed more than those who can afford an EV.

Don't care what they do in Holland or anywhere else in the world. And don't care what any "public figure" has to say about anything.

I didn't mean 30-40 thousand dollars, I meant 30-40% of the market. This is what is happening in Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, France the figures are all there to see if one wants to look. So, are you trying to tell me that somehow Canada is poorer than all these countries ???

https://cleantechnica.com/tag/ev-sales/

And again what Mr. Munro shared is nothing but those figures can be looked and ascertained from various Annual Reports. The gentleman in fact even shared his source and as can be seen legacy auto is bleeding money hence they are doing all they can including misinforming public.

How about your own country? How many EVs are being sold in India?

M564038 wrote:

The preppers are going to love EVs once they get over their current diesel punk-fashion.

You can produce the fuel yourself, and they are mechanically insanely simple.

Tugger wrote:

While I hate the idea of "mileage reporting" (and that is an understatement), I have not yet figured out a viable alternative to have people who use the roads pay for them proportionally. Quite frankly it is very wrong to not have electric vehicle owners paying their part for road use, maintenance and building.

What solution do you have?


Tugg

ACDC8 wrote:

Oh yay, another EV thread

Does an EV offer me a minimum of 800km range and can be recharged in the same time it takes to fuel an ICE car with gasoline with zero long term effects on battery performance?

Nope.

Pass.

Pune and M564038 can go on all day about how that doesn't fit into "driver profiles", don't care - until an EV offers comparable convenience to current technology, many people won't buy one (not that they can afford one anyways).

cpd wrote:

Tugger wrote:

While I hate the idea of "mileage reporting" (and that is an understatement), I have not yet figured out a viable alternative to have people who use the roads pay for them proportionally. Quite frankly it is very wrong to not have electric vehicle owners paying their part for road use, maintenance and building.

What solution do you have?


Tugg

The problem is such a system is an administrative nightmare.

What do you intend to do with people driving extremely economical cars (some of those diesels do less than 4L/100km). Surely they aren't paying their way either because they are using less fuel so not being taxed as much.

Francoflier wrote:

You can be as dismissive as you want. At the end of the day, your requirements are only yours and not representative of the vast majority of consumers.
Most cars do a daily commute under 100 Miles and spend most of their time parked and turned off. EVs cover the need of most car owners and at the right price, they offer much more reliability and are much cheaper to operate. The demand is there and will grow along with the advances in technology and the decrease in prices that comes with the economy of scale.

You're either chiming in to tell us all that the discussion is worthless because EVs do not suit you or you're trying to dismiss the whole concept for whatever bias you have by believing that everyone has the same requirements in a vehicle as you do.

FGITD wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

You can be as dismissive as you want. At the end of the day, your requirements are only yours and not representative of the vast majority of consumers.
Most cars do a daily commute under 100 Miles and spend most of their time parked and turned off. EVs cover the need of most car owners and at the right price, they offer much more reliability and are much cheaper to operate. The demand is there and will grow along with the advances in technology and the decrease in prices that comes with the economy of scale.

You're either chiming in to tell us all that the discussion is worthless because EVs do not suit you or you're trying to dismiss the whole concept for whatever bias you have by believing that everyone has the same requirements in a vehicle as you do.

What’s funny is how many comments mirror those made when automobiles first started coming onto the scene. It’s expensive. Doesn’t go far/fast enough, isn’t powerful enough, expensive, no infrastructure in place, etc etc

…acting like we invented the automobile and then 3 days later decided that we needed the interstate and thousands of gas stations.

The fact is that EVs will most likely be the way of the future. Car manufacturers aren’t going to relent just because of the families that need to drive halfway across the US once a year and buy a car every 15 years.

It is still a shortfall though, so it’s totally fine to say that it isn’t suited to your personal driving needs. But it’ll get there, and it’s moving a lot faster than people think

ACDC8 wrote:

Does an EV offer me a minimum of 800km range and can be recharged in the same time it takes to fuel an ICE car with gasoline with zero long term effects on battery performance?

Nope.

cpd wrote:

Tugger wrote:

While I hate the idea of "mileage reporting" (and that is an understatement), I have not yet figured out a viable alternative to have people who use the roads pay for them proportionally. Quite frankly it is very wrong to not have electric vehicle owners paying their part for road use, maintenance and building.

What solution do you have?


Tugg

The problem is such a system is an administrative nightmare.

What do you intend to do with people driving extremely economical cars (some of those diesels do less than 4L/100km). Surely they aren't paying their way either because they are using less fuel so not being taxed as much.

pune wrote:

There is an automaker from Europe called Stellantis who made the above statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7eX2HDdiro

Now as shared in the video why is it then China has now around 40-50% of the market fully on BEV's even though they can hybrids at the same kind. The same is the situation in Norway, Germany (coasting to around 50%) . Just couple of days back was watching Electric Vehicle Man where the gentleman concerned shared the breakup costs between ICE and EV's and shared that ones who had EV's saved about US 6,000 dollars per year compared to those who have ICE vehicles, and this is apart from maintainance expenses that we know.

Also recently, there were a bunch of Tesla 2008 owners who had celebrated 1.5 million kms journey on their car which doesn't have the range that today's cars and batteries have.

johns624 wrote:

I'm in the US and while I could see my next car, some years down the road, being a hybrid, I can't see a full electric in my future. Our distances are quite a bit farther than in Europe and EVs don't have the range.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I have no objection to EVS, if a buyer wants one and it serves their purpose, fine. I do object to paying higher taxes to subsidize the wealthy person’s car, however. EVs are pricier and overwhelmingly purchased by the wealthy, as they are expensive.

Elon Musk’s wealth is derived from the Federal subsidies on his cars—selling credits.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-car ... than-cars/

B777LRF wrote:

[quote="pune”].... Tesla 3 or a premium model like that...[/quote]

There’s nothing premium about a Tesla model 3. And the only “premium” thing about the S and X models is the price tag. Having sat in them, driven them, and been given a tour around them by a mechanic, why anyone would pay that much for something so poorly built is beyond my comprehension.[/quote]

luckyone wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I'm in the US and while I could see my next car, some years down the road, being a hybrid, I can't see a full electric in my future. Our distances are quite a bit farther than in Europe and EVs don't have the range.

Unless your commute is more than 100 miles each way or you put more than 200 miles on your car in a single day, an electric car is unlikely to impact your life in anyway. Aside from a transcontinental trip (not many people do that with any regularity), long distance trips beyond an average commute aren't any shorter in Europe in many cases than the US.

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

There is an automaker from Europe called Stellantis who made the above statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7eX2HDdiro

Now as shared in the video why is it then China has now around 40-50% of the market fully on BEV's even though they can hybrids at the same kind. The same is the situation in Norway, Germany (coasting to around 50%) . Just couple of days back was watching Electric Vehicle Man where the gentleman concerned shared the breakup costs between ICE and EV's and shared that ones who had EV's saved about US 6,000 dollars per year compared to those who have ICE vehicles, and this is apart from maintainance expenses that we know.

Also recently, there were a bunch of Tesla 2008 owners who had celebrated 1.5 million kms journey on their car which doesn't have the range that today's cars and batteries have.

Norway is an exception, the govt provided massive incentives for people to adopt BEV's they completely upended the market. When toll roads, bridges and ferries are free, allowed to use bus lanes, there no 1 off purchase tax and in the early days free parking you would have been mental to buy anything other than a BEV.

Kiwirob wrote:

B777LRF wrote:

[quote="pune”].... Tesla 3 or a premium model like that...[/quote]

There’s nothing premium about a Tesla model 3. And the only “premium” thing about the S and X models is the price tag. Having sat in them, driven them, and been given a tour around them by a mechanic, why anyone would pay that much for something so poorly built is beyond my comprehension.[/quote][/quote]

I wish this forum had a like button.

My brother in law bought a Model X when they launced, the original Model X had a pop up rear spoiler, Tesla couldn't get this to work properly, so they retrofitted all of the X's with a really ugly fixed spoiler, then there are the massive panel gaps, trim that falls off, the squeaks and rattles that drive you nuts, door rubbers that leak, huge waiting list for spare parts, he's also has 3 motors changed in 3 years. Also don't get me started on the plastic leather.

Tesla make great power packs, they are they industry leader, the problem is Tesla don't make a car with the quality level expected for the prices they charge.[/quote]

flyingclrs727 wrote:

luckyone wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I'm in the US and while I could see my next car, some years down the road, being a hybrid, I can't see a full electric in my future. Our distances are quite a bit farther than in Europe and EVs don't have the range.

Unless your commute is more than 100 miles each way or you put more than 200 miles on your car in a single day, an electric car is unlikely to impact your life in anyway. Aside from a transcontinental trip (not many people do that with any regularity), long distance trips beyond an average commute aren't any shorter in Europe in many cases than the US.

People in states west of the Mississippi river could easily meet those criteria. It's not about the distances driven every day. People often need to take longer trips. Also EV's are not viable as hurricane and other natural disaster evacuation vehicles. I would certainly not want to get stuck on a highway in cold weather in an EV the way thousands were in northern Virginia a few weeks ago.

pune wrote:

You or your brother are comparing a startup auto company which came in the market and proved to be successful in 100 years and feel they should not make any mistakes.

(...)

The other interesting bit about Tesla it pays 0 dollars for advertising while others pay huge sums going into billions of dollars just on ads. Of course, people would get jealous but that is par for the course.

B777LRF wrote:

pune wrote:

You or your brother are comparing a startup auto company which came in the market and proved to be successful in 100 years and feel they should not make any mistakes.

(...)

The other interesting bit about Tesla it pays 0 dollars for advertising while others pay huge sums going into billions of dollars just on ads. Of course, people would get jealous but that is par for the course.

Don’t think that’s neither a fair nor a correct assessment. What Kiwi and I are pointing out, is that Tesla is not the premium product their pricing would lead you to believe. When Tesla is charging north of 100K EUR for a Model X, we expect it to be on-par with the quality of similarly priced products. And that’s not the case, very far from it actually. Whether the competition has had 1, 10 or 100 years to reach that level of quality is immaterial; if Tesla is unable to match that level of quality, then their products are overpriced and certainly not “premium”.

As for the comments regarding marketing budgets that is neither here nor there is a discussion of quality. The fact of the matter is that Tesla is hugely successful in selling poorly made vehicles at very high prices.

ACDC8 wrote:

Pune and M564038 can go on all day about how that doesn't fit into "driver profiles", don't care - until an EV offers comparable convenience to current technology, many people won't buy one (not that they can afford one anyways).

ACDC8 wrote:

Does an EV offer me a minimum of 800km range and can be recharged in the same time it takes to fuel an ICE car with gasoline with zero long term effects on battery performance?

B777LRF wrote:

pune wrote:

You or your brother are comparing a startup auto company which came in the market and proved to be successful in 100 years and feel they should not make any mistakes.

(...)

The other interesting bit about Tesla it pays 0 dollars for advertising while others pay huge sums going into billions of dollars just on ads. Of course, people would get jealous but that is par for the course.

Don’t think that’s neither a fair nor a correct assessment. What Kiwi and I are pointing out, is that Tesla is not the premium product their pricing would lead you to believe. When Tesla is charging north of 100K EUR for a Model X, we expect it to be on-par with the quality of similarly priced products. And that’s not the case, very far from it actually. Whether the competition has had 1, 10 or 100 years to reach that level of quality is immaterial; if Tesla is unable to match that level of quality, then their products are overpriced and certainly not “premium”.

As for the comments regarding marketing budgets that is neither here nor there in a discussion of quality. Fact of the matter is that Tesla are hugely successful selling poorly made vehicles at very high prices.

cpd wrote:

johns624 wrote:

I'm in the US and while I could see my next car, some years down the road, being a hybrid, I can't see a full electric in my future. Our distances are quite a bit farther than in Europe and EVs don't have the range.

We have electric cars going more than 500km, surely that’s far enough? People do need to stop occasionally and have a rest. Then you recharge the car, and many of them recharge really fast at 270kw..

pune wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

B777LRF wrote:

[quote="pune”].... Tesla 3 or a premium model like that...[/quote]

There’s nothing premium about a Tesla model 3. And the only “premium” thing about the S and X models is the price tag. Having sat in them, driven them, and been given a tour around them by a mechanic, why anyone would pay that much for something so poorly built is beyond my comprehension.[/quote][/quote]

I wish this forum had a like button.

My brother in law bought a Model X when they launced, the original Model X had a pop up rear spoiler, Tesla couldn't get this to work properly, so they retrofitted all of the X's with a really ugly fixed spoiler, then there are the massive panel gaps, trim that falls off, the squeaks and rattles that drive you nuts, door rubbers that leak, huge waiting list for spare parts, he's also has 3 motors changed in 3 years. Also don't get me started on the plastic leather.

Tesla make great power packs, they are they industry leader, the problem is Tesla don't make a car with the quality level expected for the prices they charge.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

You or your brother are comparing a startup auto company which came in the market and proved to be successful in 100 years and feel they should not make any mistakes. That is the reason you should be seeing Sandy Munro videos where he takes all the EV's, tears them down, shares what is good/bad around them and he does it yearly. For e.g. re-sharing the same video that was shared by a gentleman above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOrrdqje9Og

The other interesting bit about Tesla it pays 0 dollars for advertising while others pay huge sums going into billions of dollars just on ads. Of course, people would get jealous but that is par for the course.[/quote]

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Tesla have been building vehicles for many years, the Model S was first launched in 2012, it's still badly put together 10 years later. There is not excuse for this.

pune wrote:

I didn't mean 30-40 thousand dollars, I meant 30-40% of the market. This is what is happening in Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, France the figures are all there to see if one wants to look.

pune wrote:

So, are you trying to tell me that somehow Canada is poorer than all these countries ???

Francoflier wrote:

you want. At the end of the day, your requirements are only yours and not representative of the vast majority of consumers.
Most cars do a daily commute under 100 Miles and spend most of their time parked and turned off. EVs cover the need of most car owners and at the right price, they offer much more reliability and are much cheaper to operate. The demand is there and will grow along with the advances in technology and the decrease in prices that comes with the economy of scale.

You're either chiming in to tell us all that the discussion is worthless because EVs do not suit you or you're trying to dismiss the whole concept for whatever bias you have by believing that everyone has the same requirements in a vehicle as you do.

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

There is an automaker from Europe called Stellantis who made the above statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7eX2HDdiro

Now as shared in the video why is it then China has now around 40-50% of the market fully on BEV's even though they can hybrids at the same kind. The same is the situation in Norway, Germany (coasting to around 50%) . Just couple of days back was watching Electric Vehicle Man where the gentleman concerned shared the breakup costs between ICE and EV's and shared that ones who had EV's saved about US 6,000 dollars per year compared to those who have ICE vehicles, and this is apart from maintainance expenses that we know.

Also recently, there were a bunch of Tesla 2008 owners who had celebrated 1.5 million kms journey on their car which doesn't have the range that today's cars and batteries have.

Norway is an exception, the govt provided massive incentives for people to adopt BEV's they completely upended the market. When toll roads, bridges and ferries are free, allowed to use bus lanes, there no 1 off purchase tax and in the early days free parking you would have been mental to buy anything other than a BEV.

Tugger wrote:

What crazy is that the day both those are "yes" is much closer than you likely think. Probably less than ten years on the 500 mile range (at a reasonable price) and not more than 20 on the fast recharge.

pune wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

Tesla have been building vehicles for many years, the Model S was first launched in 2012, it's still badly put together 10 years later. There is not excuse for this.

I did see you kept quiet on the GM recall, why the hate for Tesla and not GM ??? And I asked for data that you don't have it seems.

c933103 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

There is an automaker from Europe called Stellantis who made the above statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7eX2HDdiro

Now as shared in the video why is it then China has now around 40-50% of the market fully on BEV's even though they can hybrids at the same kind. The same is the situation in Norway, Germany (coasting to around 50%) . Just couple of days back was watching Electric Vehicle Man where the gentleman concerned shared the breakup costs between ICE and EV's and shared that ones who had EV's saved about US 6,000 dollars per year compared to those who have ICE vehicles, and this is apart from maintainance expenses that we know.

Also recently, there were a bunch of Tesla 2008 owners who had celebrated 1.5 million kms journey on their car which doesn't have the range that today's cars and batteries have.

Norway is an exception, the govt provided massive incentives for people to adopt BEV's they completely upended the market. When toll roads, bridges and ferries are free, allowed to use bus lanes, there no 1 off purchase tax and in the early days free parking you would have been mental to buy anything other than a BEV.

How do Norwegian drivers deal with days-long traffic jam caused by snow with BEV?

pune wrote:

I did see you kept quiet on the GM recall, why the hate for Tesla and not GM ??? And I asked for data that you don't have it seems.

tommy1808 wrote:

does your ICE car drive tens of thousands of miles without any wear, tear and performance degradation on its engine?

tommy1808 wrote:

heck, i only drive a plug in hybrid, but i can tell you that is an unfair standard. Because the ICE car can not offer the convenience that an electric car can offer: charging at home, at work and so on.

tommy1808 wrote:

Now if you drive a lot beyond its battery range, you got a point, but you still have to subtract all the times you are not stopping at a gas station to fill up because you don´t have to as well.

ACDC8 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

does your ICE car drive tens of thousands of miles without any wear, tear and performance degradation on its engine?

I've not owned a single ICE vehicle that had a significant loss of range or performance despite the mileage on the odometer and certainly not due to how I fuel the car. Can a BEV make me the same promise? Fast charge the car every time with no long-term effect on the battery's range capacity?

FGITD wrote:

What’s funny is how many comments mirror those made when automobiles first started coming onto the scene. It’s expensive. Doesn’t go far/fast enough, isn’t powerful enough, expensive, no infrastructure in place, etc etc

…acting like we invented the automobile and then 3 days later decided that we needed the interstate and thousands of gas stations.

The fact is that EVs will most likely be the way of the future. Car manufacturers aren’t going to relent just because of the families that need to drive halfway across the US once a year and buy a car every 15 years.

It is still a shortfall though, so it’s totally fine to say that it isn’t suited to your personal driving needs. But it’ll get there, and it’s moving a lot faster than people think

ACDC8 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

does your ICE car drive tens of thousands of miles without any wear, tear and performance degradation on its engine?

I've not owned a single ICE vehicle that had a significant loss of range or performance despite the mileage on the odometer and certainly not due to how I fuel the car. Can a BEV make me the same promise? Fast charge the car every time with no long term effect on the battery's range capacity?

tommy1808 wrote:

heck, i only drive a plug in hybrid, but i can tell you that is an unfair standard. Because the ICE car can not offer the convenience that an electric car can offer: charging at home, at work and so on.

Sure, if you can charge at work or at home, which many, can't.

tommy1808 wrote:

Now if you drive a lot beyond its battery range, you got a point, but you still have to subtract all the times you are not stopping at a gas station to fill up because you don´t have to as well.

Unless I'm going on a road trip, I fuel up once a month - literally, 5 minutes a month is spent on fueling my car.