Okay so this turned into a bit of a debate with an old friend the other night - what are the greatest 007 title song openers of all time? Assuming a lot of folks here have seen all or most of them, do you have a personal top 5? It seems opinions on this are influenced by the Bond era you grew up with, as well as music preferences and what not.

I'll start off:

1. Goldfinger - this is just the definitive Bond opener. The soaring horns, the cymbals, Shirley Bassey's singing off the rails - this will just never get old.
2. Goldeneye - Tina Turner really brought Bond into the 90s with powerful delivery on the strong composition from Bono/The Edge of U2. The visuals of the aftermath of the USSR's fall are still stunning.
3. You Only Live Twice - Nancy Sinatra brings the house down in this theme, with sharp lyrics and what must have been a completely exotic composition at the time.
4. The Spy Who Loved Me - Carly Simon's touching delivery is timelessly 70s, and hasn't dated badly like Paul McCartney's effort in 'Live and Let Die'.
5. Casino Royale - Chris Cornell's performance is just legendary, and the card play visuals with hints of the film's story are incredibly well done.

I think everyone needs to research the source material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOqHSX ... raowE_eZQ3


Dr.No was so good they used it for the incredibles
Skyfall with Adele singing is pretty hard to beat
Live and Let Die....It's McCartney for goodness sakes
For Your Eyes Only..Sheena Easton. ( i was a child of the 80's)
A View to a Kill: Duran Duran( See above)

Begins and ends with Shirley Bassey’s Goldfinger. Once Connery left, Bond wasn’t the same for me.

This version of the theme by the Danish S.O is great.

https://youtu.be/TvHsN5-YBLI

casinterest wrote:

I think everyone needs to research the source material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOqHSX ... raowE_eZQ3


Dr.No was so good they used it for the incredibles
Skyfall with Adele singing is pretty hard to beat
Live and Let Die....It's McCartney for goodness sakes
For Your Eyes Only..Sheena Easton. ( i was a child of the 80's)
A View to a Kill: Duran Duran( See above)

McCartney is a god, but that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

Skyfall and For Your Eyes Only are good tunes though, definitely honorable mentions.

I would have put Casino Royale - Chris Cornell as number 1, except that he refused permission for it to be on the soundtrack. I don't know the reasons behind this and he may have been justified, but for the opening song not to be on the soundtrack is beyond ridiculous.

Aaron747 wrote:

Okay so this turned into a bit of a debate with an old friend the other night - what are the greatest 007 title song openers of all time? Assuming a lot of folks here have seen all or most of them, do you have a personal top 5? It seems opinions on this are influenced by the Bond era you grew up with, as well as music preferences and what not.

I'll start off:

1. Goldfinger - this is just the definitive Bond opener. The soaring horns, the cymbals, Shirley Bassey's singing off the rails - this will just never get old.

I liked her Moonraker better.

casinterest wrote:

For Your Eyes Only..Sheena Easton. ( i was a child of the 80's)
A View to a Kill: Duran Duran( See above)

For your eyes only is one of my favorite Bond movies. Loved Duran's song!

have had this same discussion with many people many times.

for me
Best:
1. Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
2. Diamonds are Forever - Shirley Bassey
3. Nobody Does It Better - Carly Simon
4. Live and Let Die - Paul McCartney & The Wings
5. For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton

I wish `Tomorrow Never Dies' gone for Surrender by K.D. Lang rather than the song by Sheryl Crow, which for me tops this other fun list:

Worst:
1. Tomorrow Never Dies - Sheryl Crow
2. Writing's on the Wall - Sam Smith
3. The World is Not Enough - Garbage
4. Die Another Day - Madonna
5. All Time High - Rita Coolidge

1) The Living Daylights - A-ha
2) We Have All the Time in the World - Louis Armstrong
3) For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton
4) From Russia with Love - Matt Monro
5) A View to a Kill - Duran Duran

Aaron747 wrote:

[that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

So many Wings songs had the tritest lyrics. Retrospectively, it let you know which Lennon/McCartney songs were Lennon's and which were McCartney's.

stlgph wrote:

have had this same discussion with many people many times.

for me
Best:
1. Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
2. Diamonds are Forever - Shirley Bassey
3. Nobody Does It Better - Carly Simon
4. Live and Let Die - Paul McCartney & The Wings
5. For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton

I wish `Tomorrow Never Dies' gone for Surrender by K.D. Lang rather than the song by Sheryl Crow, which for me tops this other fun list:

Worst:
1. Tomorrow Never Dies - Sheryl Crow
2. Writing's on the Wall - Sam Smith
3. The World is Not Enough - Garbage
4. Die Another Day - Madonna
5. All Time High - Rita Coolidge

'Surrender' is an incredible song - by far the highlight of TND's soundtrack. TND is a well-written song, it was just waaay beyond Crow's range. I remember in the theater glancing across at the other three teenage dudes I came with during the title sequence, and we were all cringing.

stlgph wrote:

Worst:
5. All Time High - Rita Coolidge

I love that song even though Rita herself doesn't.

Virtual737 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

Worst:
5. All Time High - Rita Coolidge

I love that song even though Rita herself doesn't.

remove it from the 007 franchise, and it's good - to me.

for me (and just me personally in this argument) - i put it on the list because it's just so detached from the material. then again, i'm not sure anyone could really compose a song about an Octopussy, either

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Begins and ends with Shirley Bassey’s Goldfinger. Once Connery left, Bond wasn’t the same for me.

100% I dont even watch the new ones . Just Connery and Moore .

Difficult to pick just 5. Everything from Dr. No to, and including Goldeneye is very good.

The best

1. Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
2. Nobody Does It Better - Carly Simon
3. Live and Let Die - Paul McCartney & The Wings
4. A View to A Kill - Duran Duran
5. The Living Daylights - A-HA
6. All Time High - Rita Coolidge
7. We Have All the Time in the World - Louis Armstrong
8. For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton
9. Goldeneye - Tina Turner
10. Licence to Kill - Gladys Knight


For the most part everything after Goldeneye has been average.

The worst:

Die Another Day - Madonna
Writing's on the Wall - Sam Smith
No Time to Die - Billie Eilish




A side note: Norwegian band A-ha is the only non British / non North American artist that has done a title song. The relationship with John Barry was apparently tense. A-ha had a world tour planned, wich ment that the band had to do some short cuts. They wrote the song while on tour in Japan and had to travel back and forth between concerts and studio in England. It did not go down well with Barry, who felt that the band did not take the work seriously. He and the Bond franchise basically expected A-ha to cancel a world tour or atleast a big part of it in order to do the Bond work, something that the band needless to say could not do. Barry was not interested to take suggestions from them and he put himself on a writing credit of the song, that one of the band members in A-ha should have had, even though he did not write any of the lyrics. He also referred to A-ha as the Hitler jugend ... Apparently Duran Duran had similare problems.

Best:

1) For Your Eyes Only - Great power ballad to start the 1980's
2) Goldfinger - Bar-setter song by Shirley Bassey
3) Goldeneye and The Experience of Love - Great way to see the return of Bond in the 1990s. Tina Turner did a great job to bringing the Shirley Bassey-esque theme to the 90s.
4) License to Kill and If You Asked Me to - Great way to close the 1980's
5) Skyfall - Much like Goldeneye, another song that has essences of Shirley Bassey

OA260 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Begins and ends with Shirley Bassey’s Goldfinger. Once Connery left, Bond wasn’t the same for me.

100% I dont even watch the new ones . Just Connery and Moore .

Sean Connery was always my favourite, but I think Daniel Craig did an excellent job as a more current-era Bond. Whoever cast Roger Moore as Bond should be taken outside and shot. Maybe cast him as Bond's Dad, but otherwise...

As for the best Bond theme song, for me a toss-up between "Diamonds are forever" and "We have all the time in the World".

Bond theme guilty pleasure - "Live and let die".

There's a reason why Goldfinger was selected for the Bond 50 performance at the Oscars. Truly a masterpiece.

I've always had a soft spot for Tom Jones' Thunderball, as well.

cjg225 wrote:

There's a reason why Goldfinger was selected for the Bond 50 performance at the Oscars. Truly a masterpiece.

I've always had a soft spot for Tom Jones' Thunderball, as well.

One of those songs you just kind of want to sing along with in the car...when no one is around....just to see if you can do it at the end

Goldfinger's theme song set a standard for Bond films. I agree it is the best. The strong voice of Shirley Bassey, the underlying music used without her voice in different parts of the movie, worked well adding to its dramatic intention.

stlgph wrote:

cjg225 wrote:

There's a reason why Goldfinger was selected for the Bond 50 performance at the Oscars. Truly a masterpiece.

I've always had a soft spot for Tom Jones' Thunderball, as well.

One of those songs you just kind of want to sing along with in the car...when no one is around....just to see if you can do it at the end

I know better than to attempt singalong with Shirley Bassey...local animals beware.

It's disqualified from being in this list because it's not the title song, but Louis Armstrong's We Have All The Time In The World has got to be the most beautiful song ever made. I was pleasantly surprised to see it & John Barry's orchestral arrangement being used in No Time To Die. Quite a fitting song for the end of Daniel Craig's tenure as Bond.

As for the opening themes, here's my favourites

1) Carly Simon - Nobody Does It Better
2) Adele - Skyfall
3) Sheena Easton - For Your Eyes Only
4) Chris Cornell - You Know My Name (Casino Royale)
5) Tom Jones - Thunderball

My least favourite is a tie between Madonna's Die Another Day & Lulu's The Man With The Golden Gun. What was John Barry thinking when he wrote it? But then again, The Man With The Golden Gun was a stinker...

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

It's disqualified from being in this list because it's not the title song, but Louis Armstrong's We Have All The Time In The World has got to be the most beautiful song ever made. I was pleasantly surprised to see it & John Barry's orchestral arrangement being used in No Time To Die. Quite a fitting song for the end of Daniel Craig's tenure as Bond.

As for the opening themes, here's my favourites

1) Carly Simon - Nobody Does It Better
2) Adele - Skyfall
3) Sheena Easton - For Your Eyes Only
4) Chris Cornell - You Know My Name (Casino Royale)
5) Tom Jones - Thunderball

My least favourite is a tie between Madonna's Die Another Day & Lulu's The Man With The Golden Gun. What was John Barry thinking when he wrote it? But then again, The Man With The Golden Gun was a stinker...

MWTGG was definitely a stinker, but two things very notably stand out in that film: one of Moore's iciest scenes as Bond when he gets rough with Scaramanga's lady friend in the HKG hotel, and of course, Christopher Lee himself.

Oh La Bassey, Goldfinger and Diamonds are Forever, plus Adele's Skyfall probably next, though Matt Monro's from Russia With Love is in the same league. Worst would be Live and Let Die, plus whatever song Billie Eilish sang.

Some I like most:

- For Your Eyes Only
- License To Kill
- Skyfall


And every now and then, I listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeYfAmz0Jlk - a covid-19 project featuring young singers from the Nottingham area. Parts of every Bond song (including Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang) in 23 minutes.

Aaron747 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I think everyone needs to research the source material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOqHSX ... raowE_eZQ3


Dr.No was so good they used it for the incredibles
Skyfall with Adele singing is pretty hard to beat
Live and Let Die....It's McCartney for goodness sakes
For Your Eyes Only..Sheena Easton. ( i was a child of the 80's)
A View to a Kill: Duran Duran( See above)

McCartney is a god, but that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

Skyfall and For Your Eyes Only are good tunes though, definitely honorable mentions.

The G&R cover of Live and Let Die is very good.

I'm an 80's kids so my votes go to Duran Duran, Shelia Easton and A-ha. All the 60's and 70's themes are just as iconic, I feel the ball was dropped with the Brosnan and Craig theme songs.

I really have an issue with Goldeneye by Tina Turner and I would love to know if I am the only one: it is somehow standard procedure in such pop or rock songs that everything gets loud and maybe a little bit wild at the end of the song. Tina does so at the end of the song and sings as if there’s no tomorrow, so does the rest of the band/orchestra except for one musician: the drummer! You know, they usually explode at the end, doing one drum fill after the other but not this drummer. He plays exactly the same style for the entire song, almost as if he missed the Crescendo at the end… sounds strange to me. This song screams for an „In the air tonight“-intro of the drums at the middle of the song or at least at the end…

Just saying… :-/

N14AZ wrote:

I really have an issue with Goldeneye by Tina Turner and I would love to know if I am the only one: it is somehow standard procedure in such pop or rock songs that everything gets loud and maybe a little bit wild at the end of the song. Tina does so at the end of the song and sings as if there’s no tomorrow, so does the rest of the band/orchestra except for one musician: the drummer! You know, they usually explode at the end, doing one drum fill after the other but not this drummer. He plays exactly the same style for the entire song, almost as if he missed the Crescendo at the end… sounds strange to me. This song screams for an „In the air tonight“-intro of the drums at the middle of the song or at least at the end…

Just saying… :-/

Pretty sure that's a drum machine on the Goldeneye track. Eric Serra, the film's composer, also used a lot of electronic elements because the Broccolis wanted to bring the series into the 90s.

Aaron747 wrote:

N14AZ wrote:

I really have an issue with Goldeneye by Tina Turner and I would love to know if I am the only one: it is somehow standard procedure in such pop or rock songs that everything gets loud and maybe a little bit wild at the end of the song. Tina does so at the end of the song and sings as if there’s no tomorrow, so does the rest of the band/orchestra except for one musician: the drummer! You know, they usually explode at the end, doing one drum fill after the other but not this drummer. He plays exactly the same style for the entire song, almost as if he missed the Crescendo at the end… sounds strange to me. This song screams for an „In the air tonight“-intro of the drums at the middle of the song or at least at the end…

Just saying… :-/

Pretty sure that's a drum machine on the Goldeneye track. Eric Serra, the film's composer, also used a lot of electronic elements because the Broccolis wanted to bring the series into the 90s.

That would be an explanation. In my mind’s eye, I always see a drummer in the studio who suddenly looks up and ask into the direction of the control room „oh, is the song already over?“ … or .. „hey, I actually wanted to do some big drum fills but nobody told me this song ends so quickly!“

stlgph wrote:

One of those songs you just kind of want to sing along with in the car...when no one is around....just to see if you can do it at the end

Speaking of which... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7KMMxAQp8I

You must be joking! Not aged well? It is completely timeless!

Aaron747 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I think everyone needs to research the source material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOqHSX ... raowE_eZQ3


Dr.No was so good they used it for the incredibles
Skyfall with Adele singing is pretty hard to beat
Live and Let Die....It's McCartney for goodness sakes
For Your Eyes Only..Sheena Easton. ( i was a child of the 80's)
A View to a Kill: Duran Duran( See above)

McCartney is a god, but that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

Skyfall and For Your Eyes Only are good tunes though, definitely honorable mentions.

M564038 wrote:

You must be joking! Not aged well? It is completely timeless!

Aaron747 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I think everyone needs to research the source material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOqHSX ... raowE_eZQ3


Dr.No was so good they used it for the incredibles
Skyfall with Adele singing is pretty hard to beat
Live and Let Die....It's McCartney for goodness sakes
For Your Eyes Only..Sheena Easton. ( i was a child of the 80's)
A View to a Kill: Duran Duran( See above)

McCartney is a god, but that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

Skyfall and For Your Eyes Only are good tunes though, definitely honorable mentions.

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly in that 70s way.

Aaron747 wrote:

M564038 wrote:

You must be joking! Not aged well? It is completely timeless!

Aaron747 wrote:

McCartney is a god, but that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

Skyfall and For Your Eyes Only are good tunes though, definitely honorable mentions.

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly. And in the third act the backing vocals behind Paul are just OTT.

This song is a classic, and I do agree with the post from KiwiRob that the GNR version is more contemporary and has a richer tempo and support. However, the writing was good , and it is one of the simple but powerful lyrics that McCartney wrote.

Are you completely bonkers??? Guns and Roses and contemporary? It is a Mickey Mouse band!! They are disgusting and had never been contemporary.

casinterest wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

M564038 wrote:

You must be joking! Not aged well? It is completely timeless!

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly. And in the third act the backing vocals behind Paul are just OTT.

This song is a classic, and I do agree with the post from KiwiRob that the GNR version is more contemporary and has a richer tempo and support. However, the writing was good , and it is one of the simple but powerful lyrics that McCartney wrote.

M564038 wrote:

Are you completely bonkers??? Guns and Roses and contemporary? It is a Mickey Mouse band!! They are disgusting and had never been contemporary.

casinterest wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly. And in the third act the backing vocals behind Paul are just OTT.

This song is a classic, and I do agree with the post from KiwiRob that the GNR version is more contemporary and has a richer tempo and support. However, the writing was good , and it is one of the simple but powerful lyrics that McCartney wrote.

They contemporized it into Hard Rock and Metal. Not at all a Mickey Mouse band. Quite dysfunctional, but quite capable when they were all in sync

Ooooh, yes, changing tempo. Can’t have that, can we? Sooo 70’s. Tell that to Beethoven.

It is timeless.

Aaron747 wrote:

M564038 wrote:

You must be joking! Not aged well? It is completely timeless!

Aaron747 wrote:

McCartney is a god, but that song just has not aged well at all - like a lot of the Wings catalog.

Skyfall and For Your Eyes Only are good tunes though, definitely honorable mentions.

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly in that 70s way.

M564038 wrote:

Ooooh, yes, changing tempo. Can’t have that, can we? Sooo 70’s. Tell that to Beethoven.

It is timeless.

Aaron747 wrote:

M564038 wrote:

You must be joking! Not aged well? It is completely timeless!

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly in that 70s way.

I wasn't suggesting any tempo change is 70s. It just ain't my cup of tea from Sir Paul...he has far better stuff in his catalog.

My most memorable Bond movie theme song was Goldfinger. I also love Tom Jone's Thunderball.
McCartney's Live And Let Die was, imo, bested by Guns'n'Roses live version.
I like Adele's Skyfall. It's really something!

This John Barry Instrumental of You Only Live Twice is nice!:

https://youtu.be/YDD3Qi23BX0

I love the John Barry James Bond Theme. It's fantastic!!

Here's a great Hard Rock version of the James Bond Theme performed live by Neil Norman And His Cosmic Orchestra:

https://youtu.be/CLgg_OKRKXk

DIRECTFLT wrote:

My most memorable Bond movie theme song was Goldfinger. I also love Tom Jone's Thunderball.
McCartney's Live And Let Die was, imo, bested by Guns'n'Roses live version.
I like Adele's Skyfall. It's really something!

This John Barry Instrumental of You Only Live Twice is nice!:

https://youtu.be/YDD3Qi23BX0

I love the John Barry James Bond Theme. It's fantastic!!

Here's a great Hard Rock version of the James Bond Theme performed live by Neil Norman And His Cosmic Orchestra:

https://youtu.be/CLgg_OKRKXk

Nice links....the instrumentals are always enjoyable.

There's also this awesome rarity - the ambient/hard rock mashup version that was used in the Goldeneye theatrical trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyqeIt5Sw9g

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I love the John Barry James Bond Theme. It's fantastic!!

I completely forgot about Nancy Sinatra's version, which is unforgivable. One of the best, after La Bassey, of course

What a great subject! I really don't know, most of the songs are quite iconic for me.

Aaron747 wrote:

M564038 wrote:

Ooooh, yes, changing tempo. Can’t have that, can we? Sooo 70’s. Tell that to Beethoven.

It is timeless.

Aaron747 wrote:

Sorry, no can do. Just listened to it again and had to skip through the up-tempo parts because they're just so silly in that 70s way.

I wasn't suggesting any tempo change is 70s. It just ain't my cup of tea from Sir Paul...he has far better stuff in his catalog.

He does have better stuff in his back catalog, but he also has far far worse, Live and Let Die is a solid song, I do prefer the G&R version, just like I prefer Metallica's Stone Cold Crazy over the original Queen version, even though I'm a life long Queen fan.

Lulu? Anyone?

I like Billie Eilish's theme. It is hauntingly beautiful. I have always liked Rita Coolidge so "All Time High" is great.

I know it is not an official Bond Song, but my absolute favorite is "Never Say Never Again" by Lani Hall.

seb146 wrote:

I know it is not an official Bond Song, but my absolute favorite is "Never Say Never Again" by Lani Hall.

Ohhh yes. (Overall, I find NSNA the more solid and coherent Bond film than Thunderball.)

seb146 wrote:

Lulu? Anyone?

I like Billie Eilish's theme. It is hauntingly beautiful. I have always liked Rita Coolidge so "All Time High" is great.

I know it is not an official Bond Song, but my absolute favorite is "Never Say Never Again" by Lani Hall.

When you compare Never Say Never Again against All Time High on its stand-alone strength, there's no doubt that NSNA is the better song - although I wished they released the version played during the end credits, which ended with Herb Alpert's trumpet solo.

Interestingly, both songs were released by A&M Records as both singers were under contract with A&M.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Lulu? Anyone?

I like Billie Eilish's theme. It is hauntingly beautiful. I have always liked Rita Coolidge so "All Time High" is great.

I know it is not an official Bond Song, but my absolute favorite is "Never Say Never Again" by Lani Hall.

When you compare Never Say Never Again against All Time High on its stand-alone strength, there's no doubt that NSNA is the better song - although I wished they released the version played during the end credits, which ended with Herb Alpert's trumpet solo.

Interestingly, both songs were released by A&M Records as both singers were under contract with A&M.

Wasn't Lani Hall married to Herb Alpert? I know Herb Alpert was one of the founders of A&M.

Come on, Thunderball by Tom was brilliant, and my favourite JB movie, it had the jet pack.

seb146 wrote:

Wasn't Lani Hall married to Herb Alpert? I know Herb Alpert was one of the founders of A&M.

Yes. And in turn, Herb Alpert composed and played a Bond theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSEmKXzpQMQ

stlgph wrote:

have had this same discussion with many people many times.

for me
Best:
1. Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
2. Diamonds are Forever - Shirley Bassey
3. Nobody Does It Better - Carly Simon
4. Live and Let Die - Paul McCartney & The Wings
5. For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton

I wish `Tomorrow Never Dies' gone for Surrender by K.D. Lang rather than the song by Sheryl Crow, which for me tops this other fun list:

Worst:
1. Tomorrow Never Dies - Sheryl Crow
2. Writing's on the Wall - Sam Smith
3. The World is Not Enough - Garbage
4. Die Another Day - Madonna
5. All Time High - Rita Coolidge

I rather liked All Time High

Octopussy was my favourite Roger Moore Bond film.

My top favorite Bond songs (No specific order/ranking):

Skyfall
Goldfinger
Nobody Does it Better
We Have all the Time in the World (wonderfully re-used in No Time to Die)
No Time to Die
Live and Let Die
You Know My Name

I also quite like the unused Johnny Cash theme for Thunderball. I understand why the felt it didn't quite fit the film but I prefer it to the Tom Jones theme they ended up choosing.

readytotaxi wrote:

Come on, Thunderball by Tom was brilliant, and my favourite JB movie, it had the jet pack.

*high five*

Good to see some other love for Thunderball here. Probably going to watch that this afternoon because of this thread. Haven't seen it in a while.