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alberchico wrote:Based on all that's happened so far, do people here think some kind of shooting war will really occur ? I honestly just don't see it. I think by this time in February we'll be having a chuckle at how hysterical everybody became over this. I'll say it again, Russia has completely lost the element of surprise and Putin knows any combat operations in the Ukraine will be no walk in the park. The man is not stupid enough to spectacularly shoot himself in the foot like this. This is a massive bluff to squeeze some major concession from the Ukraine. Hell, even Ukraine is telling their citizens that no invasion is imminent and that they should stay calm. Also, on the streets of Kiev there is no panic or chaos of any kind, no rush to the markets to stock up on supplies, no run on the banks. If they aren't panicking, then why is everyone else ?
lightsaber wrote:Considering Russia fought and took the Crimea, a shooting war seems very likely. Modern warfare is fast. Citizens should get out.
alberchico wrote:Based on all that's happened so far, do people here think some kind of shooting war will really occur ? I honestly just don't see it. I think by this time in February we'll be having a chuckle at how hysterical everybody became over this. I'll say it again, Russia has completely lost the element of surprise and Putin knows any combat operations in the Ukraine will be no walk in the park.
NIKV69 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:I flew from Kyiv to London yesterday (Tuesday) lunchtime with Ryanair. Tickets were being sold for 360 euros one way 24h in advance (VERY unusual for a Tuesday in winter).. and then sold out by Monday evening. On the flight, it looked like every seat was taken
While bullets flying may not be likely in the next 24 hours... one should consider how reliant international passenger flights are on utility infrastructure (eg power supply, voice telephony, ATC, computer networks, etc...), the failure of just one likely leading to a cancelled flight but all of which can be brought down by well-resourced hackers while being denied by a nation state,
Aaron747 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:
Sounds like someone in the Ukrainian foreign ministry is trying to juice up narratives supporting a robust EU/US defense.
NIKV69 wrote:Or more so Biden wants Russia to invade since it's been days since this attack has been 'Imminent"
NIKV69 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:
Sounds like someone in the Ukrainian foreign ministry is trying to juice up narratives supporting a robust EU/US defense.
Or more so Biden wants Russia to invade since it's been days since this attack has been 'Imminent"
B777LRF wrote:Not really that interested in what the US foreign office is suggesting their citizens do, to be honest.
Now if a whole range of countries started doing the same, and that range was to include the EU, then it would be worthy of interest to someone this side of the pond.
As for a war in Ukraine, it’s honestly anybody’s guess what’s going to happen. 50/50 coin toss if there ever was one, and I’m not going to weigh in on either side. Putin’s in a bit of pickle at home, to put it mildly, but he is also a very accomplished dictator elect and the man is neither a fool nor an idiot.
He can take Ukraine any time he wants, but such an effort might well result in unacceptably high casualty rates. Which won’t do down well at home, and it’s the home front Putin needs to win. War is also stupidly expensive, and Russia has already been spending a lot of coin at the extended exercises at the Ukranian border, in the Baltic Sea and an upcoming large naval exercise in the North Atlantic.
But he really, really, REALLY would like to have control of that gas pipeline running through Ukraine. And the farmland. And the industry. And uninterrupted access to the Black Sea. But mainly the pipeline.
But the West called his bluff. In the past week especially, the United States and NATO have taken a markedly sharper tone when discussing Russia — and have, more important, sent military hardware across Eastern Europe and put troops on standby. The message is clear: If Russia won’t de-escalate, then neither will the West.
Instead of trapping the United States, Mr. Putin has trapped himself. Caught between armed conflict and a humiliating retreat, he is now seeing his room for maneuver dwindling to nothing. He could invade and risk defeat, or he could pull back and have nothing to show for his brinkmanship. What happens next is unknown. But one thing is clear: Mr. Putin’s gamble has failed.
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Newark727 wrote:
Russian domestic politics are far, far more important to this situation than American domestic politics.
apodino wrote:Why should the US even care about this? I get that Putin doesnt like us very much, but I don't really see how Putin going after the Ukraine is of any concern to us. To me, this looks like just the thing the war mongers in Washington were waiting for, so we can flush more money down the drain on wars that accomplish nothing for us but to enrich the pockets of defense contractors. I am getting sick of it.
Aaron747 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
Sounds like someone in the Ukrainian foreign ministry is trying to juice up narratives supporting a robust EU/US defense.
Or more so Biden wants Russia to invade since it's been days since this attack has been 'Imminent"
Riiiiight...because that's all kinds of logical.
davidjohnson6 wrote:Some people have obligations - eg employment as expats - and are unable to leave easily. An embassy formally telling people to "leave now" can often be referenced as force majeure, giving valid reason to break a contract or other obligation, even if later disputed in a court of law
Additionally, an embassy saying "leave now" also covers the legal backside of a Govt from being sued by its citizens for failing in a duty to protect
alberchico wrote:Based on all that's happened so far, do people here think some kind of shooting war will really occur ? I honestly just don't see it. I think by this time in February we'll be having a chuckle at how hysterical everybody became over this. I'll say it again, Russia has completely lost the element of surprise and Putin knows any combat operations in the Ukraine will be no walk in the park. The man is not stupid enough to spectacularly shoot himself in the foot like this. This is a massive bluff to squeeze some major concession from the Ukraine. Hell, even Ukraine is telling their citizens that no invasion is imminent and that they should stay calm. Also, on the streets of Kiev there is no panic or chaos of any kind, no rush to the markets to stock up on supplies, no run on the banks. If they aren't panicking, then why is everyone else ?
https://www.trtworld.com/europe/ukraine ... arus-54064