You can't make this stuff this up.

Hannah Tubbs, a 26 year old biological male (who now identifies as being female after being arrested) walked into a bathroom and sexually assaulted a 10 year old girl when Tubbs was 17.

Since Los Angeles County District Attorney George Gascon has a policy against prosecuting juveniles as adults (even for sick crimes such as this), and since Hannah committed the crime just before she turned 18, she will now serve her sentence in a female juvenile facility, even though she is now 26.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7.com/amp/hannah-tubbs-sexual-assault-california-child-molester-juvenile-facility/11516315/

While it sounds like Tubbs will be isolated from other juveniles whole incarcerated, this whole situation is a little silly. A blanket policy against prosecuting adults for crimes committed as juveniles, even when they've shown no signs of rehabilitation since then, is also insane.

You've got to love California!

SoCalPilot wrote:

You've got to love California!

Criminals sure do. I get the feeling this can really go bad. Hope this sexual predator doesn't get another chance to get near a juvenille.

Well Gascon is a travesty and a joke. A bad, dangerous to others, joke. And this is the result.

(And yes, I get the mechanics of it all. It just could be handled differently, better.)

Tugg

NIKV69 wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

You've got to love California!

Criminals sure do. I get the feeling this can really go bad. Hope this sexual predator doesn't get another chance to get near a juvenille.

Well since they were a juvenile at the time of the crime they only got 2 years, even though they have a lengthy criminal record and are a clear danger to society. So most likely they will!

Did anyone read this from the DA's (Gascon) office?

...Tubbs likely will not face punishment proportionate to the victim's trauma," the D.A.'s letter to Barger said.

The California Legislature had a good reason for passing this law. One mistake is made and, suddenly, "state's rights" don't matter and we all need to be hating California yet again. We get it: Republicans hate California and must make California like the glory of Alabama. We get it.

seb146 wrote:

Did anyone read this from the DA's (Gascon) office?

...Tubbs likely will not face punishment proportionate to the victim's trauma," the D.A.'s letter to Barger said.

The California Legislature had a good reason for passing this law. One mistake is made and, suddenly, "state's rights" don't matter and we all need to be hating California yet again. We get it: Republicans hate California and must make California like the glory of Alabama. We get it.

The main issue is that it took 8 years to find a DNA match. The issue lies with the DA that didn't move the case to adult court, and then there is the loophole about where they serve the sentence. a 26 year old does not belong in a juvenile facility.

I simply don't get this country's legal system anymore. On one extreme you have Wisconsin sending underage teens to adult jail for all crimes (17 is under the age of consent there), and on the other you have California pulling this off...

Surely a lawsuit can be made from this against CA - isn't this against the requirements of the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003?

seb146 wrote:

Did anyone read this from the DA's (Gascon) office?

...Tubbs likely will not face punishment proportionate to the victim's trauma," the D.A.'s letter to Barger said.

The California Legislature had a good reason for passing this law. One mistake is made and, suddenly, "state's rights" don't matter and we all need to be hating California yet again. We get it: Republicans hate California and must make California like the glory of Alabama. We get it.

Seb, why do you settle down a tad?

I firmly believe in States’ rights. I also believe that if a state is doing something that is contrary to my belief system, or ideology, or common sense or whatever, I have right to criticize not only the action, but the state…its government really.

If the state of California, through its legislature has decided that it will allow an adult, sexual predator to be incarcerated with female minors, that’s up to them. But, don’t you dare tell me that I can’t criticize them for it.

If I were the parent of one of these girls that is being housed with this animal, I would sue the state and the prison system to remove my child from that particular facility. And, should this beast do something to my child, I would sue the state, the prison system and any individual state employee that had any contact with her.

It is reprehensible that this sub-human be incarcerated with minors.

Do I hate California or Californians, in general? No, I don’t, but the place, at least it’s bigger cities, has become dumpster fire when it comes to dealing with crime and criminals.

seb146 wrote:

Did anyone read this from the DA's (Gascon) office?

...Tubbs likely will not face punishment proportionate to the victim's trauma," the D.A.'s letter to Barger said.

The California Legislature had a good reason for passing this law. One mistake is made and, suddenly, "state's rights" don't matter and we all need to be hating California yet again. We get it: Republicans hate California and must make California like the glory of Alabama. We get it.

Just so we're clear, you see nothing wrong with this situation and think it was handled correctly?

You can be a liberal and support the overall policies of a state or city but still critique them when they do something silly such as in this case, that doesn't automatically make you a Republican or "California hater".

fr8mech wrote:

Do I hate California or Californians, in general? No, I don’t, but the place, at least it’s bigger cities, has become dumpster fire when it comes to dealing with crime and criminals.

Hey now, there's no need to disparage dumpster fires like that!

Tugg

seb146 wrote:

Did anyone read this from the DA's (Gascon) office?

...Tubbs likely will not face punishment proportionate to the victim's trauma," the D.A.'s letter to Barger said.

The California Legislature had a good reason for passing this law. One mistake is made and, suddenly, "state's rights" don't matter and we all need to be hating California yet again. We get it: Republicans hate California and must make California like the glory of Alabama. We get it.

This isn't a partisan issue, and "mistake" is an understatement.

Surely the whole point of 'States rights' is that California and Wisconsin CAN have different laws.

Also this person was a minor when the crime was committed.

bennett123 wrote:

Also this person was a minor when the crime was committed.

So? This “person” was also a male at that time. (I actually can’t find an article that says Tubbs was male at the time the crime was committed, just the OP’s statement).

But, it doesn’t change the fact that this felon needs to be in an adult penitentiary. Not around minor females.

I love conservatives obsession with California. It’s strange how SF is considered a communist state yet I’ve never lived anywhere more capitalist and free.

SL1200MK2 wrote:

I love conservatives obsession with California. It’s strange how SF is considered a communist state yet I’ve never lived anywhere more capitalist and free.

Just to be clear, are you implying that it's only conservatives who are criticizing this and that liberals see nothing wrong with the situation?

SoCalPilot wrote:

SL1200MK2 wrote:

I love conservatives obsession with California. It’s strange how SF is considered a communist state yet I’ve never lived anywhere more capitalist and free.

Just to be clear, are you implying that it's only conservatives who are criticizing this and that liberals see nothing wrong with the situation?

No. I was more making a observational statement that was a bit flippant while at the same time still trying to make a point.

bennett123 wrote:

Surely the whole point of 'States rights' is that California and Wisconsin CAN have different laws.

Also this person was a minor when the crime was committed.

In other words, they can create their own unique ways to put kids' and teens' at risk at the taxpayers' expense.

SEAorPWM wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Surely the whole point of 'States rights' is that California and Wisconsin CAN have different laws.

Also this person was a minor when the crime was committed.

In other words, they can create their own unique ways to put kids' and teens' at risk at the taxpayers' expense.

Meaning that each state has it's own laws in many areas. My understanding is that the US is what it's names implies (a union of separate states each having the power to create it's own laws except where superseded by federal law). Presumably the people of California do not share the views of many here.

bennett123 wrote:

Surely the whole point of 'States rights' is that California and Wisconsin CAN have different laws.

Also this person was a minor when the crime was committed.

"Minor" also depends on the state. In Texas a 17 year old can be tried as an adult. Frank Abagnale Jr. committed bank fraud in the millions and was still prosecuted as an adult despite committing his crimes as a minor. And a couple million in bank fraud is a lot less bad than sexual assault in minors.

Doubtless if he/she committed the same crime in Texas, the outcome would have been very different.

fr8mech wrote:

If I were the parent of one of these girls that is being housed with this animal, I would sue the state and the prison system to remove my child from that particular facility. And, should this beast do something to my child, I would sue the state, the prison system and any individual state employee that had any contact with her.

I agree that she should have been sent to normal jail, but let's not pretend that juvies are filled with sweet little 10 year old girls coming from good families and still playing with their Barbie dolls...

They may be minors, but they didn't end up in jail for stealing candy. Especially if you stand by your own claim that criminals get away with everything in CA.

If anything, that 26 y/o transgender predator may not find it any easier in juvenile prison than in the regular slammer.

Francoflier wrote:

I agree that she should have been sent to normal jail, but let's not pretend that juvies are filled with sweet little 10 year old girls coming from good families and still playing with their Barbie dolls...

When someone is incarcerated, the State has a responsibility to protect that person, irrespective of what they did to be placed in the facility. Otherwise, why don't we just pick an island, and drop them off there.

Francoflier wrote:

Especially if you stand by your own claim that criminals get away with everything in CA.

I didn't quite write that, but it really doesn't matter does it? The State is responsible for their safety.

Francoflier wrote:

If anything, that 26 y/o transgender predator may not find it any easier in juvenile prison than in the regular slammer.

The State has a responsibility to protect this felon, also.

seb146 wrote:

Republicans hate California

No, just the sometimes insane policies and laws the leaders of that state come up with. And to be clear, many residents of California have grown to hate their state precisely for this reason, and are in the process of becoming FORMER California residents.

Unfortunately, many of them never learn, as they leave the state in droves due to high taxes, terrible business climate, burdensome regulations, and high costs, but for some reason think their lousy voting record had nothing to do with it and drag it along with them...

Francoflier wrote:

fr8mech wrote:

If I were the parent of one of these girls that is being housed with this animal, I would sue the state and the prison system to remove my child from that particular facility. And, should this beast do something to my child, I would sue the state, the prison system and any individual state employee that had any contact with her.

I agree that she should have been sent to normal jail, but let's not pretend that juvies are filled with sweet little 10 year old girls coming from good families and still playing with their Barbie dolls...

They may be minors, but they didn't end up in jail for stealing candy. Especially if you stand by your own claim that criminals get away with everything in CA.

If anything, that 26 y/o transgender predator may not find it any easier in juvenile prison than in the regular slammer.

Because she/he is an adult, the law requires her to be separate from juveniles, by sight and sound from the other juveniles. This person will be serving her time in isolation which means no contact with any other living human except for the staff.

910A wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

fr8mech wrote:

If I were the parent of one of these girls that is being housed with this animal, I would sue the state and the prison system to remove my child from that particular facility. And, should this beast do something to my child, I would sue the state, the prison system and any individual state employee that had any contact with her.

I agree that she should have been sent to normal jail, but let's not pretend that juvies are filled with sweet little 10 year old girls coming from good families and still playing with their Barbie dolls...

They may be minors, but they didn't end up in jail for stealing candy. Especially if you stand by your own claim that criminals get away with everything in CA.

If anything, that 26 y/o transgender predator may not find it any easier in juvenile prison than in the regular slammer.

Because she/he is an adult, the law requires her to be separate from juveniles, by sight and sound from the other juveniles. This person will be serving her time in isolation which means no contact with any other living human except for the staff.

Thing is, I've never met any American who really believes 17 year olds are juveniles.

Well "juvenile" is all relative. Many people even in their 30s (or their 70s ?) act like children in many occasions.

What is the goal of having separate jails for juveniles and adults (where you're not transferred from one to the other just as you reach 18, I might add) ? From my understanding it's to avoid bullying or worse from the older group towards the younger one. When in theory no bullying should happen in any case, so basically it's a bandaid because prisons aren't easy to control.

With that said, where does a transgender 26yo rapist belong ? If we want justice to be served rightly, and by that I mean that nobody should be beaten up or worse in jail, then it's not that easy to answer. In any case that person will have to be isolated from others, or put with others in a similar situation.

Aesma wrote:

With that said, where does a transgender 26yo rapist belong ? If we want justice to be served rightly, and by that I mean that nobody should be beaten up or worse in jail, then it's not that easy to answer. In any case that person will have to be isolated from others, or put with others in a similar situation.

Since in this case the victim was a child, a rapist should have his organs harvested before being put to death, calmly and lawfully. The person's claim to transgender status should be viewed with suspicion. Maybe a 2% probability of that claim being legitimate.

But I am far more disturbed by George Gascon, one of the people who normalize and rationalize violent crime. These people are sadistic and evil.

Gascon is following California law. This law was probably made for a very good reason and not this one specific case.

Rape has very little to do with age or gender. No, she should not serve her sentence in a juvenile facility obviously.

LCDFlight wrote:

Aesma wrote:

With that said, where does a transgender 26yo rapist belong ? If we want justice to be served rightly, and by that I mean that nobody should be beaten up or worse in jail, then it's not that easy to answer. In any case that person will have to be isolated from others, or put with others in a similar situation.

Since in this case the victim was a child, a rapist should have his organs harvested before being put to death, calmly and lawfully. The person's claim to transgender status should be viewed with suspicion. Maybe a 2% probability of that claim being legitimate.

But I am far more disturbed by George Gascon, one of the people who normalize and rationalize violent crime. These people are sadistic and evil.

One might argue the punishment you describe is sadistic and evil...

seb146 wrote:

Gascon is following California law. This law was probably made for a very good reason and not this one specific case.

Rape has very little to do with age or gender. No, she should not serve her sentence in a juvenile facility obviously.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the law, the judge made it very clear the court this thing was tried in could be moved but his hands were tied because the DA wouldn't change the court.

Aesma wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

Aesma wrote:

With that said, where does a transgender 26yo rapist belong ? If we want justice to be served rightly, and by that I mean that nobody should be beaten up or worse in jail, then it's not that easy to answer. In any case that person will have to be isolated from others, or put with others in a similar situation.

Since in this case the victim was a child, a rapist should have his organs harvested before being put to death, calmly and lawfully. The person's claim to transgender status should be viewed with suspicion. Maybe a 2% probability of that claim being legitimate.

But I am far more disturbed by George Gascon, one of the people who normalize and rationalize violent crime. These people are sadistic and evil.

One might argue the punishment you describe is sadistic and evil...

Some people think capital punishment is sadistic, but I think it is a good way to get rid of the worst offenders. Norway is about to release the madman Breivik - which is morally wrong. He should have been appropriately euthanized. Norway's laws are wrong and the US has the right approach, allowing capital punishment in extreme circumstances. Male violence never ends and always must be kept in check. That is arguably the #1 need in any society, along with food and water.

seb146 wrote:

Gascon is following California law. This law was probably made for a very good reason and not this one specific case.

Rape has very little to do with age or gender. No, she should not serve her sentence in a juvenile facility obviously.

I think the disturbing part is that so many legislative bodies throw together and pass legislation full of holes and severe unintended consequences like this. You think a bunch of lawyers could figure out some "what ifs" easily.

Staying on the topic of the blurry definition of "minor", for example, when New Hampshire dropped their adult age from 18 to 17 in 1996, it created a situation where it contradicted existing statutes, especially regarding status offenses. 17 year olds would be taken to adult court for things like truancy and curfew violations, and have these status offenses on their adult records the rest of their lives. I also read it created a situation where youth shelters were barred from taking 17 year olds into their care, but adult shelters could not either as the minimum age was 18.

This case seems to me like the DA or the idiots in Sacramento pulled a knee-jerk "oopsie" just like the idiots in Concord, in the opposite direction. As someone who deals with OEM technical requirements and objectives, the lack of thought that goes into these policies blows my mind.

EA CO AS wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Republicans hate California

No, just the sometimes insane policies and laws the leaders of that state come up with. And to be clear, many residents of California have grown to hate their state precisely for this reason, and are in the process of becoming FORMER California residents.

Unfortunately, many of them never learn, as they leave the state in droves due to high taxes, terrible business climate, burdensome regulations, and high costs, but for some reason think their lousy voting record had nothing to do with it and drag it along with them...

Everybody’s moving away from CA, yet the growth in rents and housing prices far outpaced the national average.

Turn off Fox News. The lion’s share of people moving away from California report doing so either because of housing costs, or because the feel the timing is right to ash on their homes equity.

WidebodyPTV wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Republicans hate California

No, just the sometimes insane policies and laws the leaders of that state come up with. And to be clear, many residents of California have grown to hate their state precisely for this reason, and are in the process of becoming FORMER California residents.

Unfortunately, many of them never learn, as they leave the state in droves due to high taxes, terrible business climate, burdensome regulations, and high costs, but for some reason think their lousy voting record had nothing to do with it and drag it along with them...

Everybody’s moving away from CA, yet the growth in rents and housing prices far outpaced the national average.

Turn off Fox News. The lion’s share of people moving away from California report doing so either because of housing costs, or because the feel the timing is right to ash on their homes equity.

Under CA laws:

17 year old junior with 15 year old sophomore gf or bf: lifetime sex offender registration. (hetero or homo)

17 year old violently molesting small girl of 10 years old: sent to juvenile detention at age 26.

That's my issue.

Francoflier wrote:

If anything, that 26 y/o transgender predator may not find it any easier in juvenile prison than in the regular slammer.

Jail is no women's college swimming, that's for sure...

SoCalPilot wrote:

SL1200MK2 wrote:

I love conservatives obsession with California. It’s strange how SF is considered a communist state yet I’ve never lived anywhere more capitalist and free.

Just to be clear, are you implying that it's only conservatives who are criticizing this and that liberals see nothing wrong with the situation?

Growing up in Kansas, I had to listen to people talk about how horrible California is on a daily basis. How they wish it would fall off into the ocean or the wildfires would consume the state. Not nice things at all. Just cruel and nasty without any regard to the loss of life or economic devastation. They’d simply say one less Californian is a win. So yah, I’d say conservatives have a healthy obsession with the 5th largest economy on earth. And their mass exodus myth is a joke. The state added over 1 million people according to the 2020 census which is a 6% increase. What mass exodus? They dislike California because it’s big, it’s liberal and extremely successful. Everything they’re not.

CitizenJustin wrote:

Growing up in Kansas, I had to listen to people talk about how horrible California is on a daily basis. How they wish it would fall off into the ocean or the wildfires would consume the state. Not nice things at all. Just cruel and nasty without any regard to the loss of life or economic devastation. They’d simply say one less Californian is a win. So yah, I’d say conservatives have a healthy obsession with the 5th largest economy on earth. And their mass exodus myth is a joke. The state added over 1 million people according to the 2020 census which is a 6% increase. What mass exodus? They dislike California because it’s big, it’s liberal and extremely successful. Everything they’re not.

Yes, that exodus myth is ridiculously tired by now. It is one of those things that are so perspicuously untrue that I do not waste time or breath arguing the point; I just quietly deduct 30 IQ points from whomever said it while also making the note never to bother asking what Uni they went to.

As for why they dislike CA so much, I believe that comes down to a 5th Largest Economy-Sized helping of insecurity. Most of our haters are people who failed at being here or never even tried.

SEAorPWM wrote:

Under CA laws:

17 year old junior with 15 year old sophomore gf or bf: lifetime sex offender registration. (hetero or homo)

17 year old violently molesting small girl of 10 years old: sent to juvenile detention at age 26.

That's my issue.

Then you need to have that issue with states in general, because we are nowhere near alone on that score.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Yes, that exodus myth is ridiculously tired by now.

Is that so?

https://www.10news.com/news/fact-or-fiction/fact-or-fiction-california-ran-out-of-u-hauls-in-2021?_amp=true

(KGTV) — A story you may have seen claims so many people are leaving California that U-Haul ran out of trucks in our state.

It's apparently true.

U-Haul put out a news release in which it said California was the state that saw the biggest loss of one-way U-Haul trucks in 2021.

In fact, U-Haul says it actually ran out of trucks to rent out here.

The top destination for U-Haul's trucks was Texas followed by Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Arizona.

EA CO AS wrote:

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Yes, that exodus myth is ridiculously tired by now.

Is that so?

https://www.10news.com/news/fact-or-fiction/fact-or-fiction-california-ran-out-of-u-hauls-in-2021?_amp=true

(KGTV) — A story you may have seen claims so many people are leaving California that U-Haul ran out of trucks in our state.

It's apparently true.

U-Haul put out a news release in which it said California was the state that saw the biggest loss of one-way U-Haul trucks in 2021.

In fact, U-Haul says it actually ran out of trucks to rent out here.

The top destination for U-Haul's trucks was Texas followed by Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Arizona.

Yes, it is so and I don’t think truck rental numbers are a reliable source of population movement.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/ ... california

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

CitizenJustin wrote:

Growing up in Kansas, I had to listen to people talk about how horrible California is on a daily basis. How they wish it would fall off into the ocean or the wildfires would consume the state. Not nice things at all. Just cruel and nasty without any regard to the loss of life or economic devastation. They’d simply say one less Californian is a win. So yah, I’d say conservatives have a healthy obsession with the 5th largest economy on earth. And their mass exodus myth is a joke. The state added over 1 million people according to the 2020 census which is a 6% increase. What mass exodus? They dislike California because it’s big, it’s liberal and extremely successful. Everything they’re not.

Yes, that exodus myth is ridiculously tired by now. It is one of those things that are so perspicuously untrue that I do not waste time or breath arguing the point; I just quietly deduct 30 IQ points from whomever said it while also making the note never to bother asking what Uni they went to.

As for why they dislike CA so much, I believe that comes down to a 5th Largest Economy-Sized helping of insecurity. Most of our haters are people who failed at being here or never even tried.

SEAorPWM wrote:

Under CA laws:

17 year old junior with 15 year old sophomore gf or bf: lifetime sex offender registration. (hetero or homo)

17 year old violently molesting small girl of 10 years old: sent to juvenile detention at age 26.

That's my issue.

Then you need to have that issue with states in general, because we are nowhere near alone on that score.

Yeah... I don't get our priorities in this nation sometimes

The penalty should be death! That's the only reason why the sentence should be carried out in a juvenile center.

CitizenJustin wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

SL1200MK2 wrote:

I love conservatives obsession with California. It’s strange how SF is considered a communist state yet I’ve never lived anywhere more capitalist and free.

Just to be clear, are you implying that it's only conservatives who are criticizing this and that liberals see nothing wrong with the situation?

Growing up in Kansas, I had to listen to people talk about how horrible California is on a daily basis. How they wish it would fall off into the ocean or the wildfires would consume the state. Not nice things at all. Just cruel and nasty without any regard to the loss of life or economic devastation. They’d simply say one less Californian is a win. So yah, I’d say conservatives have a healthy obsession with the 5th largest economy on earth. And their mass exodus myth is a joke. The state added over 1 million people according to the 2020 census which is a 6% increase. What mass exodus? They dislike California because it’s big, it’s liberal and extremely successful. Everything they’re not.

California's success depends on race. The median Californian is relatively poor and uneducated. I doubt whether the median Californian's education and living standard compares favorably with Kansas. But yes, California does have a lot more rich white people.

EA CO AS wrote:

DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Yes, that exodus myth is ridiculously tired by now.

Is that so?

It is so. You are not using a valid metric. Far more valid data points can be found here, https://ktla.com/news/california/califo ... ic-deaths/.

CA lost a miniscule amount of people during the pandemic compared to most other states. Factors such as the halting of immigration intake, Covid deaths —yes, I realize you probably believe that is a hoax— and declining birthrates are solely responsible for this aberration. 2022 is expected to resume growth, adding to the trend of CA being the only state to experience significant growth in every decade of its existence.

There is no exodus, nor will there be, all hater fantasies aside.

Though frankly I wish there were. I would be thrilled to have less traffic. The notion of Californians helping to blue out a lot of the red rash the United States is suffering is also not without merit.

And Gascon has had a change of heart.
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/why-ga ... -year-old/

Sunday evening, deep into a long holiday weekend, the reform-minded prosecutor made a dramatic shift. In an emailed statement, Gascón said his approach was incorrect: “The complex issues and facts of her particular case were unusual, and I should have treated them that way.”

The sudden reversal came after Gascón’s staff learned that Fox News was preparing to publish jailhouse recordings in which Tubbs crowed about receiving a light sentence and spoke derisively about the victim, a 10-year-girl she attacked in a Palmdale bathroom.

Not that it changes anything for anyone. What an ass.

Tugg