I'm surprised that the same lot mad at BLM from blocking roads isn't mad at these truckers blocking roads (and vice versa). Not accusing anyone here, but I'm sure many are guilty of that

(For the record, I'm never in favor of blocking roads and think it's the quickest way to have people lose support for your protest)

NIKV69 wrote:

stratable wrote:

Foreign influence that’s overstepping the line.

All I see is Canadian flags buddy. Can’t you except that Canada may be fed up with this stuff and a horrible leader? Jeez.

As a person who spends a good chunk of his life in the GTA, lets say the level of support for the truckers is surprisingly high here. Just about everyone eye rolled at the CBC's claim that its the Russians, and even the ever popular "blame America!" thrust of the Liberal Party is falling short.

Aaron747 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

stratable wrote:

Foreign influence that’s overstepping the line.

All I see is Canadian flags buddy. Can’t you except that Canada may be fed up with this stuff and a horrible leader? Jeez.

...childish Canadians who don’t understand the difference between freedom and public health needs like masks are ‘fed up with this stuff’...fixed it for you.

Or, actual Socialists afraid of a working class person uprising.

FlapOperator wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

All I see is Canadian flags buddy. Can’t you except that Canada may be fed up with this stuff and a horrible leader? Jeez.

...childish Canadians who don’t understand the difference between freedom and public health needs like masks are ‘fed up with this stuff’...fixed it for you.

Or, actual Socialists afraid of a working class person uprising.

Not a clue what you're on about. Political stripes have nothing to do with public health advice from medical professionals.

The amateur hour coup attempt continues, with participants and supporters increasing their gross tactics. Ottawa Police reporting that they are aware of a concerted effort to flood 911 and non-emergency policing reporting line, and they are aware of a large contingent of children living amongst protestors which is impeding police efforts - Children's Aid has been asked to assess (think about that.. using kids as pseudo-shields to prevent police action against your illegal actions.)

As of 40min ago a group of people protesting is slowing traffic to and from Ottawa's main airport.

https://twitter.com/OttawaPolice/status ... uZ1bw73vxg
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/o ... -1.6343814
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/o ... -1.6346256

skyservice_330 wrote:

The amateur hour coup attempt continues, with participants and supporters increasing their gross tactics.

Refers to protestors as seditionists, wonders why there is no civility in public discourse.

skyservice_330 wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

The amateur hour coup attempt continues, with participants and supporters increasing their gross tactics.

Refers to protestors as seditionists, wonders why there is no civility in public discourse.

FFS

They are openly calling for the democratically elected government to be replaced by fiat of the Governor General and replaced by a committee that the protestors form.

They are walking around with 'F*ck Trudeau* flags while illegally occupying a national capital and major pieces of North American infrastructure .. but yeh bud, talk to me about hurt feelings around 'sedition' and civility and public discourse

skyservice_330 wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

Refers to protestors as seditionists, wonders why there is no civility in public discourse.

FFS

They are openly calling for the democratically elected government to be replaced by fiat of the Governor General and replaced by a committee that the protestors form.

They are walking around with 'F*ck Trudeau* flags while illegally occupying a national capital and major pieces of North American infrastructure .. but yeh bud, talk to me about hurt feelings around 'sedition' and civility and public discourse

Wait, there are lese majesty laws in Canada?

casinterest wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

The Ambassador Bridge between Windsor, Ont. and Detroit, MI, the busiest truck crossing between the USA and Canada is in shutdown due to Canadian side trucker protesters. This is wreaking havoc with the auto and other industries, food and consumer goods distribution. Some USA and Canadian vehicle plants badly affected for almost 2 years of pandemic production disruptions may have to shut down as key parts and vehicles themselves are being prevented from being moved. This is affecting the economies of both the USA and Canada. https://www.wxyz.com/news/windsor-polic ... an-borders

That is how you protest not on a hill waving a flag. Near my house is a coal plant and in the past the climate activists stand on the track to block the train much more effective than standing on the side with signs.

Sure but these unrighteous people are keeping people that did the right thing from going about their way. All because they are not getting vaccinated. They can take the intercanada routes, and let some real men and women that took the shots go across the border.

We have a far higher vaccination rate the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination doesn't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentines Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree kick their butts.

StarAC17 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

That is how you protest not on a hill waving a flag. Near my house is a coal plant and in the past the climate activists stand on the track to block the train much more effective than standing on the side with signs.

Sure but these unrighteous people are keeping people that did the right thing from going about their way. All because they are not getting vaccinated. They can take the intercanada routes, and let some real men and women that took the shots go across the border.

We have a far higher vaccination rate the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination doesn't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentines Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree kick their butts.

i have no sympathy for people that haven't gotten the shot. I think the mandate is a bit nuts, but it is what it is. my solution is to just jack up the insurance rates for the Unvaccinated here in the US.
I know in Canada that is a bit of an issue, hence the mandates.

stratable wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

FFS

They are openly calling for the democratically elected government to be replaced by fiat of the Governor General and replaced by a committee that the protestors form.

They are walking around with 'F*ck Trudeau* flags while illegally occupying a national capital and major pieces of North American infrastructure .. but yeh bud, talk to me about hurt feelings around 'sedition' and civility and public discourse

Wait, there are lese majesty laws in Canada?

Do you want to address the part in his post where he points out that protestors are "llegally occupying a national capital and major pieces of North American infrastructure" ?

Where are they supposed to protest, like 90km north of Sudbury?

Where do the protestors go to get their reputations back after the CDC and PM have smeared them?

FlapOperator wrote:

stratable wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

Wait, there are lese majesty laws in Canada?

Do you want to address the part in his post where he points out that protestors are "llegally occupying a national capital and major pieces of North American infrastructure" ?

Where are they supposed to protest, like 90km north of Sudbury?

Where do the protestors go to get their reputations back after the CDC and PM have smeared them?

Laymen who claim to know more about medicine and public health than those who practice it have no one to blame for sullied reputations than themselves.

StarAC17 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

That is how you protest not on a hill waving a flag. Near my house is a coal plant and in the past the climate activists stand on the track to block the train much more effective than standing on the side with signs.

Sure but these unrighteous people are keeping people that did the right thing from going about their way. All because they are not getting vaccinated. They can take the intercanada routes, and let some real men and women that took the shots go across the border.

We have a far higher vaccination rate than the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination don't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However, it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentine's Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree to kick their butts.

Let's put you in the Govt. for a moment. Now you have a health crisis and you are getting the info. that the virus is not going anywhere. In fact, it is still mutating as I have shared above. For e.g. the BA.2 mutant that is being felt in the U.S. Tell me what would you do about it. Don't shift goals or anything. How would you make sure that BA.2 mutant doesn't come to Canada and what would you do to make sure that your population is safe. Let's leave aside all other arguments, what would be your solution???

And then there is also omnicron.

pune wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Sure but these unrighteous people are keeping people that did the right thing from going about their way. All because they are not getting vaccinated. They can take the intercanada routes, and let some real men and women that took the shots go across the border.

We have a far higher vaccination rate than the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination don't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However, it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentine's Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree to kick their butts.

Let's put you in the Govt. for a moment. Now you have a health crisis and you are getting the info. that the virus is not going anywhere. In fact, it is still mutating as I have shared above. For e.g. the BA.2 mutant that is being felt in the U.S. Tell me what would you do about it. Don't shift goals or anything. How would you make sure that BA.2 mutant doesn't come to Canada and what would you do to make sure that your population is safe. Let's leave aside all other arguments, what would be your solution???

It's not that simple - one extreme wants no restrictions or mandates of any kind regardless of the data, and the other wants them regardless of the data. The sensible and adult middle ground is to evaluate what's necessary based on interpretation of data, and advise whatever the consensus of public health expertise is. So your question about BA.2 would require evaluation of its virulence and potential to strain healthcare capacity, as with any other variant.

Aaron747 wrote:

Laymen who claim to know more about medicine and public health than those who practice it have no one to blame for sullied reputations than themselves.

That's a pretty elitist statement.

There was a time where the political left stood for the openness of government. Now, it seems "because we say so" should be good enough.

FlapOperator wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Laymen who claim to know more about medicine and public health than those who practice it have no one to blame for sullied reputations than themselves.

That's a pretty elitist statement.

There was a time where the political left stood for the openness of government. Now, it seems "because we say so" should be good enough.

Negative, not remotely. Again, as has happened elsewhere in the thread, you're conflating politicians' grandstanding of the issue with actual science and public health expertise/advice. 'Because public health experts say so' *should* be good enough on matters of public health.

It is arrogant and immature for adults to claim experts advanced in their fields don't know what they're talking about from a position of zero experience and practical knowledge. As stated already in this thread, it's just as ridiculous as noobs who come to this forum and tell pilots/mechanics 'everything they know is wrong'. There is no basis for vehemently discounting expert consensus from a layman's position other than raw emotion - which is not a solution to anything.

This has been written about extensively, even by commentators on the right:

https://www.amazon.com/Death-Expertise- ... 0190469412

Aaron747 wrote:

pune wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

We have a far higher vaccination rate than the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination don't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However, it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentine's Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree to kick their butts.

Let's put you in the Govt. for a moment. Now you have a health crisis and you are getting the info. that the virus is not going anywhere. In fact, it is still mutating as I have shared above. For e.g. the BA.2 mutant that is being felt in the U.S. Tell me what would you do about it. Don't shift goals or anything. How would you make sure that BA.2 mutant doesn't come to Canada and what would you do to make sure that your population is safe. Let's leave aside all other arguments, what would be your solution???

It's not that simple - one extreme wants no restrictions or mandates of any kind regardless of the data, and the other wants them regardless of the data. The sensible and adult middle ground is to evaluate what's necessary based on interpretation of data, and advise whatever the consensus of public health expertise is. So your question about BA.2 would require evaluation of its virulence and potential to strain healthcare capacity, as with any other variant.

True, but as we have seen this virus mutates faster and what you ask is something that happens over weeks or months. What happens if the body count in the interim goes high. Then the same crowd will put the charge of negligence on the same people. And I understand the politics around it. Don't let them do prevention, and when it goes haywire, blame them all the same. That is why I asked the gentleman what he would do? Whenever any health expert or anybody who is gonna be into health or any such vocation, they will never have full knowledge. They have to react what to what is happening.

I would share a small example from a neighboring state, on which they made a whole movie. This was also about a virus from bats that happened in Kerala in 2019. (Nipah Virus)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8941440/

It's worth watching because it puts you in the shoes of both the medical doctor as well as the Govt. and the choices they had to make. They detected something and after a couple of deaths ordered a state lockdown, still in the interim 19 deaths occurred but they were able to stop the transmission. After 3-4 months they opened the state.

pune wrote:

True, but as we have seen this virus mutates faster and what you ask is something that happens over weeks or months. What happens if the body count in the interim goes high.

Fortunately, epidemiological research is robust and well-funded, with a huge body of experiential expertise underpinning the field. Just saying 'it mutates faster' is largely irrelevant without considering a host of related variables. The reporting systems available in developed countries to keep dashboards updated on data points like 'body count' and serious cases are generally good enough that interpretations can be made in a matter of days.

stratable wrote:

No one in general has an issue with protests to get a point across.

Frankly, I think that's good start on the issues of politics at least in the US. My demonstrations are good and noble. Its the other guys' demonstrations that vicious, violent and ill-intentioned.

Historically, the best answer for demonstrations, especially on this scale, is to get out in front of it, address the shared concerns of the protestors, ask for restraint and show intent to answer the demands.

There was a reason in the US historically context that meaningful ability to petition government for the redress of grievances is at the top of the Bill of Rights, and it was the direct descendant of the experiences around the English Civil War.

FlapOperator wrote:

stratable wrote:

No one in general has an issue with protests to get a point across.

Frankly, I think that's good start on the issues of politics at least in the US. My demonstrations are good and noble. Its the other guys' demonstrations that vicious, violent and ill-intentioned.

Historically, the best answer for demonstrations, especially on this scale, is to get out in front of it, address the shared concerns of the protestors, ask for restraint and show intent to answer the demands.

There was a reason in the US historical context that meaningful ability to petition the government for the redress of grievances is at the top of the Bill of Rights, and it was the direct descendant of the experiences around the English Civil War.

The above can be done but only when rationality and trust from both sides. I would share what I know of what happened on the farmer's bill in India that had farmers blocking the roads but even more than that the Govt. putting rods on roads, and all sorts of things so that farmers have a hard time. Before the bill was presented in the Parliament, they had approached the farmers to have consultations on the bill. The farmers rejected it outright as many of their constitutional rights. For e.g. their right to complain in the court of law in case they were cheated by Corporations and there had been cases of such cheating on a large scale. There were many like that. The Govt. assured them they will make the necessary changes but due to reasons unknown, they put the bill as it was originally. The farmers felt cheated. They did protests/dharna. The Govt. invited them thinking/hoping that these are uneducated people but the youngsters were ready, they had PowerPoint presentations that showed the politicians how and what they were doing was wrong. They even put all that data in the public domain so that people could understand by themselves what the game was about. It took them a year and 400 deaths of farmers, most of them by cold as they slept in winter in open grounds. As elections in Punjab came nearer, the Govt. voluntarily withdrew otherwise they knew they wouldn't get a single vote. In this case, the Govt. destroyed a lot of their own property, they actually dug holes on national highways, dug deep 10-15 feet wide holes by tractors, and the police jawans keeping an eye. And this is when it is all due to taxpayer money as well as tolls (most highways in India are tolled today).

Aaron747 wrote:

pune wrote:

True, but as we have seen this virus mutates faster and what you ask is something that happens over weeks or months. What happens if the body count in the interim goes high.

Fortunately, epidemiological research is robust and well-funded, with a huge body of experiential expertise underpinning the field. Just saying 'it mutates faster' is largely irrelevant without considering a host of related variables. The reporting systems available in developed countries to keep dashboards updated on data points like 'body count' and serious cases are generally good enough that interpretations can be made in a matter of days.

If you say that the experts are so right and they have all the tools, then those on the right who claim it's over and not needed should be able to stop Covid dead on tracks. Somehow that is not happening, can you tell me why ???

And coincidentally @Stratable above shared the same sentiment what I expressed. Looking forward to an answer. I remember Mr. Trump saying it was nothing more than a cough and cold. And somehow a million died in the U.S.

NIKV69 wrote:

I don’t care how your government works but what I don’t get is how you feel that these people aren’t allowed to protest. Seems to me everyone underestimated these people and now are trying to blame the USA while as always insulting the USA. Both of which are rubbish. I love watching Canada’s weak leader look so ruffled because he doesn’t have the faintest idea what to do. It’s refreshing to watch this protest. Even though as a way to divert attention from the situation now they are being called ridiculous things.

If you don’t understand how government works in Canada, why are you throwing in your lot with people making demands that are not constitutionally possible? Is this like those NFL games in London - a MAGA rally in a more exotic locale?

I guess I’ll flog the dead horse and point out that protests are perfectly acceptable. How many water cannons have we seen in Ottawa? How much teargas? All they’ve been banned from doing is using 100db horns due to health considerations. If the demonstration gets banned as a whole, it’ll be on the basis of democratically elected laws.

Not interested in insulting the US - you do you - but spare us the Trump 2024 and Confederate flags, money and citizens (who’ve even managed to get arrested - quality folk) - Ottawa is not in America; it’s the capital of a friendly nation. Keep your MAGA folk in your own cities. We don’t need your politics here; we have enough of our own on our hands - and can do without this apparent photo-op.

FWIW, the federal government cannot remove mask mandates and vaccine passport requirements - those are provincial jurisdiction. These truckers won’t be able to cross the border regardless of what Canada does; the US doesn’t allow it, and we don’t have land borders with anyone else.

WildcatYXU wrote:

And what? The MP will follow the party line.

How’d that work out for the Opposition? Is O’Toole still the leader?

Ought to answer your question.

FlapOperator wrote:

skyservice_330 wrote:

The amateur hour coup attempt continues, with participants and supporters increasing their gross tactics.

Refers to protestors as seditionists, wonders why there is no civility in public discourse.

In fairness, they did demand the dissolution of a democratically elected government. Which is, of course, unconstitutional, and falls under the broad description of sedition.

That said, I don’t think there’s sufficient intent (mens rea) to qualify it as sedition. It looks like a bad copy-and-paste of whatever some folk in the US wanted the US VP/Senate to do last January. I don’t think these folk realize that the systems are too incongruent for copycat approaches. Possibly because a lot of intellectual heft is coming from the US (Suzy’s Waffle House, anyone?) although I’m beginning to rethink that given one Canadian poster’s baffling interventions here. Entirely possible that basic civics isn’t taught in some parts of Canada.

StarAC17 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

That is how you protest not on a hill waving a flag. Near my house is a coal plant and in the past the climate activists stand on the track to block the train much more effective than standing on the side with signs.

Sure but these unrighteous people are keeping people that did the right thing from going about their way. All because they are not getting vaccinated. They can take the intercanada routes, and let some real men and women that took the shots go across the border.

We have a far higher vaccination rate the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination doesn't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentines Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree kick their butts.

We both know that has less to do with protests than with rapidly declining hospitalization numbers. The protests are noise - nothing more. AB’s dropping all its rules (which isn’t new - it’s done that before). The Coutts blockade hasn’t gone down because of it - if anything, it’s headed for a potentially more dangerous resolution.

pune wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Sure but these unrighteous people are keeping people that did the right thing from going about their way. All because they are not getting vaccinated. They can take the intercanada routes, and let some real men and women that took the shots go across the border.

We have a far higher vaccination rate than the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination don't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However, it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentine's Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree to kick their butts.

Let's put you in the Govt. for a moment. Now you have a health crisis and you are getting the info. that the virus is not going anywhere. In fact, it is still mutating as I have shared above. For e.g. the BA.2 mutant that is being felt in the U.S. Tell me what would you do about it. Don't shift goals or anything. How would you make sure that BA.2 mutant doesn't come to Canada and what would you do to make sure that your population is safe. Let's leave aside all other arguments, what would be your solution???

And then there is also omnicron.

You had a point in March 2020, even in March 2021.

Since then the government has had ample chances to increase surge capacity in the healthcare system above and beyond what they actually did. They had a blank cheque to hire and train nurses and other healthcare staff to deal with these surges that will continue for the next few years. They could have repealed Bill 124 which limited the cost of living increases for nurses above 1% per year. Nurses are burned out and they should have hiked pay to keep them in their jobs and been able to develop talent in that field in the time frame. They did none of that and have taken it out on the people. The recent lockdown wasn't because of the severity of Omicron but the limited capacity the hospitals have to deal with a surge. Would 2 years be enough to alleviate

Whenever a variant is discovered it has already spread basically everywhere. If the BA.2 variant is in the the US its in Canada.
There is a lot of very strong evidence tha Covid was spreading in the fall of 2019, months before it was discovered in Wuhan.

Looks like some Americans are going to go to Jail over this.

https://www.13abc.com/2022/02/10/attemp ... ttawa-ohio

Charges are forthcoming for an Akron man that attempted to send bomb threats to police in Ottawa.

He got the name right. But the location was off by about 600 miles.

Ottawa is the county seat for Putnam County in northwest Ohio. So when the man, who has yet to be identified, used Google to find the number for police in Canada, Google gave him a number that was closer to home.

“He wasn’t paying attention and just called the first number he found,” said Putnam County Sheriff’s Office Captain Brad Brubaker. “He said he was mad about mask mandates.”

StarAC17 wrote:

pune wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

We have a far higher vaccination rate than the United States. I think 90% of Canadians have got at least one shot, 80% 2 shots and 50% boosted. Unless you figuratively put people at gunpoint to get the shot I don't think you are getting much higher than that. The protest is the mandates and while some of them might make sense some do not. Things like a PCR test to get into Canada with full vaccination don't really make sense anymore. An interprovincial vaccines mandate for Truckers makes no sense and really can't be enforced.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/m ... 98923.html

https://www.reuters.com/business/canadi ... 022-01-20/

I would agree with you until in January when there was a lockdown of the non-essential businesses that vaccine passports were required for in Ontario and Quebec. Gyms and Restaurants whom many grudgingly accepted the vaccine passport thought that was going to prevent another lockdown. However, it didn't prevent another lockdown and many people feel betrayed and they are still restricted 50% capacity with one of the biggest dining weekends coming up this weekend with Valentine's Day.

Provincial and local governments are responding to these protests. Ontario is looking at accelerating their reopening plan now as have Alberta and Saskatchewan. The protests are working because governments are responding.

If restrictions are lifted sooner and these protests remain until Trudeau is out and the protestors start moving the goalposts then I agree to kick their butts.

Let's put you in the Govt. for a moment. Now you have a health crisis and you are getting the info. that the virus is not going anywhere. In fact, it is still mutating as I have shared above. For e.g. the BA.2 mutant that is being felt in the U.S. Tell me what would you do about it. Don't shift goals or anything. How would you make sure that BA.2 mutant doesn't come to Canada and what would you do to make sure that your population is safe. Let's leave aside all other arguments, what would be your solution???

And then there is also omnicron.

You had a point in March 2020, even in March 2021.

Since then the government has had ample chances to increase surge capacity in the healthcare system above and beyond what they actually did. They had a blank cheque to hire and train nurses and other healthcare staff to deal with these surges that will continue for the next few years. They could have repealed Bill 124 which limited the cost of living increases for nurses above 1% per year. Nurses are burned out and they should have hiked pay to keep them in their jobs and been able to develop talent in that field in the time frame. They did none of that and have taken it out on the people. The recent lockdown wasn't because of the severity of Omicron but the limited capacity the hospitals have to deal with a surge. Would 2 years be enough to alleviate

Whenever a variant is discovered it has already spread basically everywhere. If the BA.2 variant is in the US it's in Canada.
There is a lot of very strong evidence that Covid was spreading in the fall of 2019, months before it was discovered in Wuhan.

What you are telling me are the effects, and that is same or similar in lots of parts of the world, including lots of pockets in India, including my own city. And here btw it is privatized similar to the U.S. but without any sort of credit or any welfare scheme at all. I just visited the same hospital that I had gone 2 years before, just before covid for something else. The whole staff was changed. And I had a talk with a few of the nurses (we call them sisters or madame) and we found that in-between even here they had only 1% of salary growth and the hospital has been making bumper profits. Another point to note is the sheer number and scale of unemployment in India. Inflation by Govt. own figures is 6% and last year was 8% and this is where the Govt. can play what goes into the inflation basket. What I shared is after that.

https://www.livemint.com/opinion/column ... 33433.html

This will come in tomorrow's dead-tree paper.

And what is happening in India is what happened in the west as shared by Rep. Katie porter.

https://twitter.com/RepKatiePorter/stat ... 7566391297

She had a whiteboard and she asked a pharma CEO a few questions and it was found by her that they paid the highest for stock buybacks and dividends to their shareholders while for R&D they did something around 5%.

I am sure there is something similar here at work but there is no Katie Porter to ask such questions and even if she was, she would have been accidentally killed.

But this doesn't answer my original question at all. So, the only solution is to have mask and vaccine mandates or otherwise somehow force the Governments into making more capacity, If you aren't able to do that then you are protesting against the wrong people. Give presentations as Mrs. Katie Porter did, articulate it, tell where and who is doing wrong, then people would be on your side. Give facts and figures and show the linkages. Emotions will only take you so far

India's inflaton numbers

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... ar-AATFHT3

And what you see in that article is something that we are being fed for the last 8 years, that this inflation is transitory but yet it has been persisting for the last 8 years. Of course, just like in the U.S. education was defunded, the same has happened in India, so most people don't know or even care about inflation, headline inflation etc. For last 8 years, they have been poisoning the youth on religious basis but that is another debate altogether.

ElPistolero wrote:

WildcatYXU wrote:

And what? The MP will follow the party line.

How’d that work out for the Opposition? Is O’Toole still the leader?

Ought to answer your question.

So you are comparing a confidence vote against a PM initiated by a MP of governing party to removing a party leader after a lost election?

Seriously? This is literally insulting.

WildcatYXU wrote:

So you are comparing a confidence vote against a PM initiated by a MP of governing party to removing a party leader after a lost election?

Seriously? This is literally insulting.

Insulting? To whom?

I’ve given you two examples of how this works in a parliamentary democracy:

- UK - where a PM with a 80+ strong majority is facing open dissent from within - including very vocal calls from members of his own party to resign (and submitting letters to that effect).

- Canada - where the leader of opposition was booted from office.

MPs are clearly not beholden to holding the Party line. Or voting with their fellow members (only Ministers are - or else they need to resign from those roles). Don’t like ‘em? Throw them out in 3.5 years. Instead of piping up in favour of blatantly unconstitutional demands.

I have a friend who's a truck driver (not part of the protests), they went to work today and were forced to use some rural roads due to the blockades on the major throughways, now they're starting to block the rural roads.

Candice Bergen and the Conservatives have asked the protesters to take down the blockades and continue to protest in a legal and civilized manner.

casinterest wrote:

Looks like some Americans are going to go to Jail over this.

https://www.13abc.com/2022/02/10/attemp ... ttawa-ohio

Charges are forthcoming for an Akron man that attempted to send bomb threats to police in Ottawa.

He got the name right. But the location was off by about 600 miles.

Ottawa is the county seat for Putnam County in northwest Ohio. So when the man, who has yet to be identified, used Google to find the number for police in Canada, Google gave him a number that was closer to home.

“He wasn’t paying attention and just called the first number he found,” said Putnam County Sheriff’s Office Captain Brad Brubaker. “He said he was mad about mask mandates.”

Rightfully so anyone that makes a bomb threat should definitely be seeing some jail time.

pune wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

I remember Mr. Trump saying it was nothing more than a cough and cold. And somehow a million died in the U.S.

A fool who invests himself with the quality of wisdom, as absent as it is.

One can “trust the science” and not follow the guidance this produced. Blind faith belongs in place of worship, not politics. My father had liver cancer, medical science gave him options, he declined all of them. Yes, there’s a contagious aspect, but COVID especially Omicron, isn’t the Black Death. Vaccinated immunity isn’t—it’s six or eight months of reduced infection rates and effects. My wife is vaccinated, boosted and hardly goes in public and then with a mask and likely was infected.

Risk analysis and sovereignty still is possessed by the citizens.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

One can “trust the science” and not follow the guidance this produced. Blind faith belongs in place of worship, not politics. My father had liver cancer, medical science gave him options, he declined all of them. Yes, there’s a contagious aspect, but COVID especially Omicron, isn’t the Black Death. Vaccinated immunity isn’t—it’s six or eight months of reduced infection rates and effects. My wife is vaccinated, boosted and hardly goes in public and then with a mask and likely was infected.

Risk analysis and sovereignty still is possessed by the citizens.

I agree with you mostly. I think there is a blindness on both side of the issue.

Regarding your comment, the one thing at issue is when your actions or inaction, create a dangerous risk to others. Your father has the right to make his choice. Typhoid Mary, does not have to right to decline medical intervention and then insist on infecting the wider population. Getting vaccinated also lowers the cost society (or insurance) must pay when the person gets ill. We already have taxes on tobacco, and car insurance costs more to dangerous and poor drivers, and people who break their leg on a hike and have to be helicoptered out have to pay for the service. How to address the cost of those that come near death and require extensive or extended care after having contracted COVID?.

Tugg

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

One can “trust the science” and not follow the guidance this produced. Blind faith belongs in place of worship, not politics. My father had liver cancer, medical science gave him options, he declined all of them. Yes, there’s a contagious aspect, but COVID especially Omicron, isn’t the Black Death. Vaccinated immunity isn’t—it’s six or eight months of reduced infection rates and effects. My wife is vaccinated, boosted and hardly goes in public and then with a mask and likely was infected.

Risk analysis and sovereignty still is possessed by the citizens.

Not when everyone else has to pay the medical and insurance bills. If we lived in world where people that deny the science of the vaccine also denied the science of doctors, and walked away to die on a field by themselves, then fine. however these people all invariably show up at the Doctor's office, going .. "If only I had known" . They lack the ability to properly risk access because they don't understand the outcomes, and they don't take accountability for their own actions.

The province of Ontario has gotten a court order to freeze the funds for the Freedom Convoy:

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-court ... -1.5776665

The mayor of Windsor tried to engage the protesters. Soon became clear they’re protesting nothing in particular (or everything, if you’re so inclined).

“The mayor expressed frustration over the protesters, who he said have no clear leadership or asks.

"There is a variety of issues that have been expressed … but this has moved more into an anti-government protest. This has moved into people here today saying they're onsite protesting due to climate change," said Dilkens.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ ... -1.6346185

Not yet clear if they’re protesting for climate change measures. Or against them. The lack of leadership is understandable though - the leaders might be stuck on the wrong side of the border.

ThePointblank wrote:

The province of Ontario has gotten a court order to freeze the funds for the Freedom Convoy:

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-court ... -1.5776665

As it should be.

Seems the US contingent has decided to start blocking 911 and the non-emergency helpline.

“Some of that money has come from the U.S., and at Thursday's news conference, Sloly explained how Americans have also targeted phone lines like 911 and the non-emergency phone number.

He said officials think the culprits "are supporting the core demonstrations here and across the country."

"They were coming in from the United States, not exclusively, but significantly from United States-based addresses," said Sloly.”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/o ... -1.6346256

Quality stuff - stopping people from accessing emergency services.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

One can “trust the science” and not follow the guidance this produced. Blind faith belongs in place of worship, not politics. My father had liver cancer, medical science gave him options, he declined all of them. Yes, there’s a contagious aspect, but COVID especially Omicron, isn’t the Black Death. Vaccinated immunity isn’t—it’s six or eight months of reduced infection rates and effects. My wife is vaccinated, boosted, and hardly goes in public and then with a mask and likely was infected.

Risk analysis and sovereignty still is possessed by the citizens.

The problem is when you have such resistance even if the black death returns you wouldn't be able to observe it. Doctors are working in imperfect conditions with imperfect knowledge and in their Hippocratic oath, the first mantra is 'do no harm'. So whenever they put any caution whether it is mask mandates or vaccine mandates, it is from the perspective of an abundance of caution. What I find more interesting are the ones who protest the loudest, when they are killed by the virus, the 'mob' goes on without acknowledging his or her presence and absence. Now if this isn't irony then I don't know what is.

ElPistolero wrote:

The mayor of Windsor tried to engage the protesters. Soon became clear they’re protesting nothing in particular (or everything, if you’re so inclined).

“The mayor expressed frustration over the protesters, who he said have no clear leadership or asks.

"There is a variety of issues that have been expressed … but this has moved more into an anti-government protest. This has moved into people here today saying they're onsite protesting due to climate change," said Dilkens.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ ... -1.6346185

Not yet clear if they’re protesting for climate change measures. Or against them. The lack of leadership is understandable though - the leaders might be stuck on the wrong side of the border.

Oh lol, now climate it is, I thought it was about vaccination and mask mandates. Just goes to show they are there to do mischief and nothing else. They are protesting for the sake of protesting. If you are poor and you are getting funds, we have seen enough of it in India.

And the leaders are smart, will give them that, why expose yourselves where there are enough fools to do the work for you. Reminds me so much of the Taliban and other such groups. This is the same way their groups perform. I am sure most of the foot soldiers wouldn't even know the identity of their leaders.

ThePointblank wrote:

The province of Ontario has gotten a court order to freeze the funds for the Freedom Convoy:

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-court ... -1.5776665

So what will happen to the money?

I liked his dad's speech to the nation about the October terrorists better.

tomaheath wrote:

ThePointblank wrote:

The province of Ontario has gotten a court order to freeze the funds for the Freedom Convoy:

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-court ... -1.5776665

So what will happen to the money?

GiveSendGo is claiming lack of jurisdiction.

GiveSendGo posted a statement on Twitter Thursday night about its “Freedom Convoy” campaign.

“Know this! Canada has absolutely ZERO jurisdiction over how we manage our funds here at GiveSendGo,” it said.

“All funds for EVERY campaign on GiveSendGo flow directly to the recipients of those campaigns, not least of which is The Freedom Convoy campaign.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/8610512/give ... rozen/amp/

Which may be true. But Canada’s banking system is heavily regulated and it’s doubtful any financial institutions are going to play fast and loose with the courts.

So even if GiveSendGo is depositing money into accounts in Canada, those funds will be frozen as soon as they’re deposited.If the money goes into US accounts, then no idea (and don’t think anyone in Canada cares).

Either way, it looks like GiveSendGo’s Twitter theatrics may mean the end of its ability to send money into Canada anytime soon.