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Ken777
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Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:25 am

Really?

The GOP "Powers That Be" have decided that the efforts to take over the government simply Legitimate Political Discourse and we are supposed to believe that it reflects what happened on Jan 6th.

Really?

How many traditional Republicans are going to read that crap and gag? Will they have the political integrity to resign from this uncontrolled mob of radicalized nazi oriented fools. Trump's greed for regaining power will eventually crush the hard right to the point that they have their power stripped from them. Worked for the Klan for years - until Trump gave them hope again,

The next time that these obscene radicals return to Legitimate Political Discourse I hope that there are no rubber bullets in the police guns, or any military personnel assigned to protecting the Capital. Live ammo, first rate shooters and full disclosure that climbing the steps outside will draw live fire and, if you die, you die.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:51 am

The days of legitimate political discourse are long gone and if you think it's strictly a GOP thing well there isn't much left to discuss.
 
Ken777
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:18 am

These days it is a GOP problem.

Part of the "we are allowed to do what we want" mentality of the radicalized right. Like Trump tearing up masses of documents and stealing at least 15 boxes of federal property. That theft included his love letters from North Korea as well as gifts that were given to the President, not fat boy Trump. I'll assume that you support those violations being tried in a real court, with Trump getting appropriately punished. Would you vote to convict, or support the theft of documents, letters and gifts? Without even knowing how valuable those gifts are?
 
Clutch101
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:22 am

NIKV69 wrote:
The days of legitimate political discourse are long gone and if you think it's strictly a GOP thing well there isn't much left to discuss.


You are absolutely right, there isn’t anything left to discuss. The GQP tore that up (mar-a-lago not withstanding) the last four years, and still continues to do that to this day.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:08 am

Ken777 wrote:
fat boy Trump.


You are really going far toward improving the discourse. :sarcastic:
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 1:43 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
The days of legitimate political discourse are long gone and if you think it's strictly a GOP thing well there isn't much left to discuss.


So you would be happy for a mob to break into the State Capitol in Austin screaming 'Hang Greg Abbott' or Tallahassee 'Hang Ron DiSantis'. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:34 pm

An interesting article from the Hill today.
https://thehill.com/opinion/opinion/593 ... -discourse

The RNC condemned Cheney and Kinzinger for “participating in a Democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in” — and here’s the key phrase: engaged in “legitimate political discourse.”

Calling the violent attack on the Capitol “legitimate political discourse” defies belief. We know what happened. We saw it live on television. As described by Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) in his new book “Unthinkable,” we saw the mob “taunt, push, shove, punch, gouge, scratch, spray, smash, jab, and harass the U.S. Capitol Police force.”



The GOP has gotten so caught up in the big lie, that they do not understand what democracy is anymore. The GOP tent itself cannot hold people that recognize that attacks need to be investigated. The party that made Benghazi and email into years of political investigations cannot stomach the idea of investigating the actions of their own that began with lies about the Election, resulted in an Attack, and have currently resulted in the GOP condemning the only members willing to stand up and say that it is not right.

The GOP wants to talk about how bad the Democrats are. They want to use lies about Socialism, Wokeness, CRT, vaccinations and a host of other items to generate anger and fear enough in their "Base" to get people to vote for people that want to end democracy and instill their own version of it based on lies. This has to stop. Legitimate Political Discourse does not come from lies. It comes from discussing the real issues and reaching compromise. The GOP had a wakeup call this week, but I worry it will be just like an Alcoholic that says it is their last drink, until they keep at it again.

From the above article.
Abraham Lincoln was only 28 years old, a young lawyer in Springfield, Ill., when he gave one of the most important speeches in his life and made one of his most profound reflections on the survival of our democracy. Right at the top of what became known as his “Lyceum Address,” in addressing “The Perpetuation of Our Political Institutions,” Lincoln raised the question of where the danger to our democracy might someday come from. “If it ever reach us,” he declared, “it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.”



If the GOP continues on this path, then we won't have a democracy anymore. We need the GOP to wake up and quit sowing lies and fear. People need to quit listing to paid liars pushing agendas from right wing media. I don't believe it will happen anytime soon, but for the sake of this country, I hope it happens soon.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:56 pm

Obviously the crashing through the entrance of the Capitol was not legitimate political discourse. The rest of it wasn’t great either, but political discourse does not have to be great. The protesting and signs were fine. One would imagine they had a permit to do that, as every group does every Saturday in DC. One could even argue the guy who tased himself in the balls and died was having a legitimate discourse.
 
victrola
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 3:41 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Obviously the crashing through the entrance of the Capitol was not legitimate political discourse. The rest of it wasn’t great either, but political discourse does not have to be great. The protesting and signs were fine. One would imagine they had a permit to do that, as every group does every Saturday in DC. One could even argue the guy who tased himself in the balls and died was having a legitimate discourse.
[twoid]

The protests and signs were there based on the lie perpetrated by the mainstream Republican party that the election was stolen. I guess that people are free to perpetuate lies. There is nothing legitimate about a lie. Yet the Republican party continues to promote the lie that the election was stolen, and that Pence had the power to overturn the results. According to polls, this is the belief of 70% of Republicans.

I support the right or these delusional losers to have a peaceful protest. However, it is a fact that their beliefs are not legitimate. I'm not worried about a lunatic mob as much as I am worried about a Republican party that can't accept facts. Anyone who cannot accept the fact that Biden won, and that Pence was powerless to overturn the election results is unfit for political office.
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:26 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
fat boy Trump.


You are really going far toward improving the discourse. :sarcastic:

It took just 3 words for him to prove your point that it's not just a GOP issue. :lol:
 
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Tugger
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:36 pm

victrola wrote:
[...]I'm not worried about a lunatic mob as much as I am worried about a [...] party that can't accept facts.

To me this is the the crux of the issue. Our political parties, whatever they are, are supposed to speak the BEST of the ideals of the people in them. They are supposed to lead their constituent as well as follow them. And by follow, you take what they are saying and wanting and seeking and distill it into dialog.

Riots and violent protests are not "discourse". They are elements of "societal discourse" on a grand scale but not on legislation discussions which is what the parties are created for, to Legislate.

Political parties are supposed to be "bigger than that". Most recognize violence as just that, and while they may equivocate that the violence is just "the people speaking so they are heard" or some such, they should still denounce it and the people that perform the violence.

Tugg
 
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SQ22
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:28 pm

Ken777 wrote:
Really?

The GOP "Powers That Be" have decided that the efforts to take over the government simply Legitimate Political Discourse and we are supposed to believe that it reflects what happened on Jan 6th.

Really?

How many traditional Republicans are going to read that crap and gag? Will they have the political integrity to resign from this uncontrolled mob of radicalized nazi oriented fools. Trump's greed for regaining power will eventually crush the hard right to the point that they have their power stripped from them. Worked for the Klan for years - until Trump gave them hope again,

The next time that these obscene radicals return to Legitimate Political Discourse I hope that there are no rubber bullets in the police guns, or any military personnel assigned to protecting the Capital. Live ammo, first rate shooters and full disclosure that climbing the steps outside will draw live fire and, if you die, you die.


Please remember to provide a link to your source when stating facts, thanks.
 
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seb146
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 6:47 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
The days of legitimate political discourse are long gone and if you think it's strictly a GOP thing well there isn't much left to discuss.


Democrats try to run on issues while Republicans insist voter fraud by Democrats and Killary and Barak Hussein Obama born in Kenya and child trafficking from a pizza parlor are legitimate reasons to take away voting and speech from legal Americans and demand an election be reversed. I have not seen any legitimate "both sides do it" like you think. That is just a phrase invented by Republicans to excuse bad behavior.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:27 pm

The Republicans want to cause confusion to try to do a total power grab to hold for decades and all the riches and power it brings. Too many don't care about violating the Constitution, destroying people, they just want to get government out of most social benefit programs, make massive cuts in public spending except to the military, cut taxes on the rich and corporations and make the poor and middle class pay more and assure White Supremacy to keep in power.
 
Clutch101
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"

Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:54 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
fat boy Trump.


You are really going far toward improving the discourse. :sarcastic:


You first, well Marjorie "three names", Lauren "constitution" Boebert, Ted "cancun" Cruz, Josh "Heil" Hawley et al can go first. How about that?
 
NIKV69
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:03 pm

seb146 wrote:

Democrats try to run on issues while Republicans insist voter fraud by Democrats and Killary and Barak Hussein Obama born in Kenya and child trafficking from a pizza parlor are legitimate reasons to take away voting and speech from legal Americans and demand an election be reversed. I have not seen any legitimate "both sides do it" like you think. That is just a phrase invented by Republicans to excuse bad behavior.


These issues the Dems are running on are a disaster which is why we get a steady diet of Trump did this etc and Jan 6th and Russia's invasion that never seems to happen. It's ok the voters will reject this in November.

Clutch101 wrote:
You first, well Marjorie "three names", Lauren "constitution" Boebert, Ted "cancun" Cruz, Josh "Heil" Hawley et al can go first. How about that?


Fine but Manchin and Sinema are my favorites it's just a shame the AOCs attack them but keep up the fight it should do well come the mid terms.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:17 pm

Even Mitch McConnell highlights that all the members of the RNC that went for censure were out of their mind and lane. His statement also highlights that +60% of the GOP that sill believe the election was stolen, are out of their mind as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna15404

“We all were here. We saw what happened. It was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election, from one administration to the next. That’s what it was,” McConnell, R-Ky., told reporters at his weekly news conference.
 
Newark727
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:46 am

NIKV69 wrote:
These issues the Dems are running on are a disaster which is why we get a steady diet of Trump did this etc and Jan 6th and Russia's invasion that never seems to happen. It's ok the voters will reject this in November.


It is important to talk about issues that zero effort has been made to address, yes.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:17 am

casinterest wrote:
Even Mitch McConnell highlights that all the members of the RNC that went for censure were out of their mind and lane. His statement also highlights that +60% of the GOP that sill believe the election was stolen, are out of their mind as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna15404

“We all were here. We saw what happened. It was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election, from one administration to the next. That’s what it was,” McConnell, R-Ky., told reporters at his weekly news conference.


McConnell trying to restore a bit of his legacy it seems.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:48 am

Around 71% of Americans believe in god with more like 90% believing in some supernatural power, so critical thinking isn't high on the list of strengths. With this, it's no wonder that many will believe anything that their "leaders" tell them. The GOP is just playing to the mentality / intelligence of its member with such a statement.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/210704/record-few-americans-believe-bible-literal-word-god.aspx
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:06 am

Before I go out hitting GOP politicians with a wrench, I want to politely ask them what the limits of "legitimate political discourse" are.

And where do we place the protests of Portland, then?

It's good when we do it, it's bad when they do it...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:16 pm

Aesma wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Even Mitch McConnell highlights that all the members of the RNC that went for censure were out of their mind and lane. His statement also highlights that +60% of the GOP that sill believe the election was stolen, are out of their mind as well.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... -rcna15404

“We all were here. We saw what happened. It was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election, from one administration to the next. That’s what it was,” McConnell, R-Ky., told reporters at his weekly news conference.


McConnell trying to restore a bit of his legacy it seems.


McConnell is trying to salvage the party going into Midterms. There is an effort underway to block reps that aided the insurgents from even running, Hopefully this movement picks up steam.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/08/politics ... index.html

"Liberal activists who have mounted the effort to disqualify his candidacy say Cawthorn stoked violence and aided the insurrectionists. Days before the attack on the US Capitol, he said it was "time to fight." And at the January 6, 2021, rally at the Ellipse, he railed against the "cowards" in Congress who planned to certify Joe Biden's election victory."


Either way, the GOP has a lot of battles to fight, and the RNC did not make anything better for McConnell.
 
pune
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:47 pm

Can somebody what the full form of RNC is Republic something Conference or something else ???
 
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casinterest
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:56 pm

pune wrote:
Can somebody what the full form of RNC is Republic something Conference or something else ???


Republican Nutcase Committee . or maybe National .... You choose.


It is responsible for developing and promoting the Republican political platform, as well as coordinating fundraising, election strategy, and a "party brand."[1] It is also responsible for organizing and running the Republican National Convention.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republica ... _Committee
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:03 pm

Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?
 
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seb146
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:04 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Democrats try to run on issues while Republicans insist voter fraud by Democrats and Killary and Barak Hussein Obama born in Kenya and child trafficking from a pizza parlor are legitimate reasons to take away voting and speech from legal Americans and demand an election be reversed. I have not seen any legitimate "both sides do it" like you think. That is just a phrase invented by Republicans to excuse bad behavior.


These issues the Dems are running on are a disaster which is why we get a steady diet of Trump did this etc and Jan 6th and Russia's invasion that never seems to happen. It's ok the voters will reject this in November.


Voting rights and creating jobs? That's bad?

BTW, it WAS proven that Russia had a hand in the 2016 election

https://www.csis.org/blogs/technology-p ... ted-states
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... otten-more

For years, all we heard was "but.. but.. but.. HILLARY'S EMAILS!!!" and "but... but.. but... BENGHAZI!!!" with zero substance from Republicans. Now that Democrats are both calling out the one note of Republicans and their dear leader while, at the same time, proposing legislation to help Americans shows how Democrats are actually trying instead of simply name calling and bullying.
 
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seb146
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:07 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?


The people of Wisconsin PEACEFULLY made their voiced heard over their own state legislature passing laws that were unpopular. There would not have been an attempt to violently overthrow the government the way Republicans did on January 6.

"Both sides do it" is never ever a valid argument. It is the same as saying "I know you are but what am I?" or "I'm rubber, you're glue..."
 
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casinterest
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:08 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?



Were there riots in 2016? Did Hillary hold a protest claiming stolen votes? Don't go on the 'Both sides do it" when your leadership team is the one leading the party.


And why did you link to a protest about Cuts to workers pay and benefits?. That was a valid protest about an issue that pissed off a lot of people.
 
Newark727
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:24 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?


Great, time to start mixing up the molotov cocktails. Hey, everybody does it, right? If the party of "law and order" doesn't have an issue with it, I may as well.
 
victrola
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:44 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?


When Trump won, Hillary Clinton gave a gracious concession speech. There were no riots. There was no campaign supported by 70% of Democrats to overturn the election results. Nobody said Vice President Biden should reject the election results in Congress. There were no fake sets of electors and forged election documents. There was no vote in Congress to reject the results of the election. It's not the riots that disturb me as much as the organized campaign of the Republican party to destroy confidence in our election process and overturn the results of a free and fair election.

Today we have a Congress where 147 Republicans have demonstrated their complete contempt for democracy and free and fair elections by voting against Biden's certification. Yet people like you continue to chant your mantra "everybody does it".
 
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Tugger
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:55 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?

So you are advocating for this type of action?

Tugg
 
Drafran
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:43 am

Hmmm...I wonder...if someone were to shoot an average Republican in the ass, blowing their brains out, would that be an example of legitimate political discourse?
 
Ken777
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:57 am

SQ22 wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
Really?

The GOP "Powers That Be" have decided that the efforts to take over the government simply Legitimate Political Discourse and we are supposed to believe that it reflects what happened on Jan 6th.

Really?

How many traditional Republicans are going to read that crap and gag? Will they have the political integrity to resign from this uncontrolled mob of radicalized nazi oriented fools. Trump's greed for regaining power will eventually crush the hard right to the point that they have their power stripped from them. Worked for the Klan for years - until Trump gave them hope again,

The next time that these obscene radicals return to Legitimate Political Discourse I hope that there are no rubber bullets in the police guns, or any military personnel assigned to protecting the Capital. Live ammo, first rate shooters and full disclosure that climbing the steps outside will draw live fire and, if you die, you die.


Please remember to provide a link to your source when stating facts, thanks.


That post of mine should be considered original thought, with no links.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?


After which recount?
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:42 am

Drafran wrote:
Hmmm...I wonder...if someone were to shoot an average Republican in the ass, blowing their brains out, would that be an example of legitimate political discourse?


I see what you did there. :cheeky:
 
Ken777
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:39 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Both parties do it, if they think it suits their goals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

Does anyone doubt, if Trump won, there would have been riots?


Both parties are not "doing the same thing" - but only because of Trump.

Hillary beat Trump by 3,000,000 votes, but lost the election. She then delivered a gracious speech acknowledging defeat while most of the country gagged when thinking the 3,000,000 vote looser. No riots, or attempt to take over the government. The Capital was not damaged and the Democrats delivered an excellent Transfer Of Power Program for the incoming Administration. That sure as hell cannot be said about the Trump Administration in the area of a Transfer Of Power Program. Reality is that both Republicans and Democrats have long delivered appropriate Transfer Of Power Programs - all except Trump so,EXCEPT for Trump - they all do whet needs to be done for responsible transfer of power.

In terms of Trump winning in 2020: If he had won the only riots I see would be normal Americans making a task to the borders. I'm fortunate in that my wife still has her Aussie passport so we can move there with reasonable ease. Others, less fortunate, will be bunched up at the border and riots may start. That are the only riots I see until Trump starts his screwing normal people, like blacks, browns, yellows and reds. You know, the ones he hates.

The best we can hope for is that Trump gets tangled up with another big bosomed gal and strokes up. ( I wonder if Srormy would take care of that as a public service? If she make a hidden video she could make good money renting and selling it. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: )

With any luck the GOP could find a way to keep Fat Boy off of the ballots! Some timely indictments might do the trick. The 3 year max for Destruction of Documents would work - keeps him off of 2022 and 2024 ballots.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:17 pm

....These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won't let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!

-- Donald J. Trump, May 29th, 2020

Am I the only one who thinks that the Capitol rioters should have been mowed down with M249 machine guns? Or am I too cynical?
 
ltbewr
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:25 pm

In the days after 2016 election for President, Hillary Clinton and Democrats did look at and asked for reviews by MI and PA election officials to see if any irregularities that benefited Trump due to the narrow difference in the raw votes in those states. In the end there were very few issues, more likely some protest 3d party votes (Green Party) and some core usual Democratic party voters didn't vote as didn't like HRC and wanted Bernie Sanders as the party's candidate. Democrats realized they lost by the rules for elections in place then in those states. No riots, no violence

The day of Trump's Inauguration in 2017, there was unfortunately some minor incidents of violence, property damage and physical assault in DC by 'left wingers' that especially Fox News and other conservative media overplayed. The next day was one of the largest protests DC ever saw, that focused on women's issues, especially as the new Pres. Trump had a horrible history of behavior to women as well as out of fear of losing legal access to abortion and facing discrimination.

By 2018-2020, major fissures opened up had opened up in American politics and society in significant part due to Pres. Trump. Black Americans started to protest, sadly too often devolving into acts of psychical violence, rioting and looting of businesses against police, destruction of Police facilities, police scared to enforce the laws, for deadly confrontations where unarmed Black men and women were being murdered by cops and cops not facing criminal charges. Mainly some Black persons and others vandalized, tore down and destroyed symbols of racism to them, in particular statues and memorials of Civil War Confederate political and military leaders, statues of Christopher Columbus and other controversial leaders as local governments were not going to remove them. That led to reactions by White Supremacists and related groups to counter protest, in particular in Charlottesville, VA with a anti-protester killed. Then you had the stupid 'left' protests in Seattle and Portland, OR with damage to US government buildings, cutting off of local police from dealing with it further angering many Trump supporting voters.

The Pandemic further opened up the fissures in America. Voting in the 2020 November elections was mostly by safer early voting sites or vote by mail, sometimes such laws from Governors and/or legislatures done on a public emergency basis due to the Pandemic, with some done improperly by law. Led by Pres. Trump, massive voting challenges were filed, Trump abused his power as President to try to change election results in Georgia. He encouraged his supporters to massively protest the election to 1/6/21, the final step in recognizing the Electoral College vote by Congress. Trump encouraged with only a very slight denial, of violence by mob to prevent that last step from happening or to change it to put him into office. If the mob didn't go into or onto the Capitol building, if proper law enforcement had been in place, the terror attack wouldn't have taken place, Trump would just be a sore loser and the Republicans wouldn't be trying to have it both ways so not to lose the Trumpist voters for them by effectively supporting the terror attack on the Capitol on 1/6/21.

Now we have a threat as in parts of Canada of truck drivers and others to go to DC and state capitols to protest Pandemic vaccination requirements, mask rules, but basically have anti-government beliefs. Those protests in Canada are disrupting trade, already damaged supply chains in the USA and Canada and a core group of protesters are resisting, making it impossible by governments to deal with them out of fear of losing voters. Both in Canada and the USA, as well as in other countries, the pandemic had triggered serious conflicts in our societies. I don't have any answers, some may want to surrender and end all public health polices as to the Covid-19 pandemic but that would be bad as may cause more infections, overloaded hospitals and deaths. I am afraid things may get worse before they get better.
 
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seb146
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Re: Legitimate Political Discourse?

Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:18 pm

ltbewr wrote:
In the days after 2016 election for President, Hillary Clinton and Democrats did look at and asked for reviews by MI and PA election officials to see if any irregularities that benefited Trump due to the narrow difference in the raw votes in those states. In the end there were very few issues, more likely some protest 3d party votes (Green Party) and some core usual Democratic party voters didn't vote as didn't like HRC and wanted Bernie Sanders as the party's candidate. Democrats realized they lost by the rules for elections in place then in those states. No riots, no violence

The day of Trump's Inauguration in 2017, there was unfortunately some minor incidents of violence, property damage and physical assault in DC by 'left wingers' that especially Fox News and other conservative media overplayed. The next day was one of the largest protests DC ever saw, that focused on women's issues, especially as the new Pres. Trump had a horrible history of behavior to women as well as out of fear of losing legal access to abortion and facing discrimination.

By 2018-2020, major fissures opened up had opened up in American politics and society in significant part due to Pres. Trump. Black Americans started to protest, sadly too often devolving into acts of psychical violence, rioting and looting of businesses against police, destruction of Police facilities, police scared to enforce the laws, for deadly confrontations where unarmed Black men and women were being murdered by cops and cops not facing criminal charges. Mainly some Black persons and others vandalized, tore down and destroyed symbols of racism to them, in particular statues and memorials of Civil War Confederate political and military leaders, statues of Christopher Columbus and other controversial leaders as local governments were not going to remove them. That led to reactions by White Supremacists and related groups to counter protest, in particular in Charlottesville, VA with a anti-protester killed. Then you had the stupid 'left' protests in Seattle and Portland, OR with damage to US government buildings, cutting off of local police from dealing with it further angering many Trump supporting voters.

The Pandemic further opened up the fissures in America. Voting in the 2020 November elections was mostly by safer early voting sites or vote by mail, sometimes such laws from Governors and/or legislatures done on a public emergency basis due to the Pandemic, with some done improperly by law. Led by Pres. Trump, massive voting challenges were filed, Trump abused his power as President to try to change election results in Georgia. He encouraged his supporters to massively protest the election to 1/6/21, the final step in recognizing the Electoral College vote by Congress. Trump encouraged with only a very slight denial, of violence by mob to prevent that last step from happening or to change it to put him into office. If the mob didn't go into or onto the Capitol building, if proper law enforcement had been in place, the terror attack wouldn't have taken place, Trump would just be a sore loser and the Republicans wouldn't be trying to have it both ways so not to lose the Trumpist voters for them by effectively supporting the terror attack on the Capitol on 1/6/21.

Now we have a threat as in parts of Canada of truck drivers and others to go to DC and state capitols to protest Pandemic vaccination requirements, mask rules, but basically have anti-government beliefs. Those protests in Canada are disrupting trade, already damaged supply chains in the USA and Canada and a core group of protesters are resisting, making it impossible by governments to deal with them out of fear of losing voters. Both in Canada and the USA, as well as in other countries, the pandemic had triggered serious conflicts in our societies. I don't have any answers, some may want to surrender and end all public health polices as to the Covid-19 pandemic but that would be bad as may cause more infections, overloaded hospitals and deaths. I am afraid things may get worse before they get better.


Let's also not forget that Republicans in the 2020 election actually tried to rig the election

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/12/politics ... index.html
https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/en ... oter-fraud

As far as the "stupid" protests, nope. People are genuinely angry over far right wing white supremacists taking over. Thugs using violence to change the country into what they have in Russia or Turkey or Hungary where speaking out against the government lands you in jail or worse, instead of legitimate political discourse. Like the "very fine people" at Unite The Right in Charlottesville who were there to protest white power.

Let's not forget it was the Confederacy who decided to leave because of slavery. It was the Confederacy who fired the first shots. Concessions were made to the slave states in both the Constitution and the years after the Civil War. These far right wing extremists simply want whites to have power and dominion over non-whites. And they were given cover, and still are, by Republicans.

If one does not like the "violence" by the "stupid" protests, maybe don't support ACTUAL violence by white supremacists...

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