Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Alfons
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:17 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:00 pm

I might have miss such a post, or maybe really no one wrote yet about that. Are we really sure Putin is all about NATO, buffer zone and such things which - in my eyes - feel like a past need maybe 80 years ago.

Why isn’t Putin just simply behind the huge, underused and dormant gas reserves in Ukraine? Sounds boring does
it? But in today’s very global
economy oriented world, a much more important asset than playing the buffer zone general.

https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/amp/


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
 
stratable
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:06 pm

Hijacking this discussion a bit, my hope is, that in the next few years, "the West" and especially everyday people will
start to move away from jumping into opinion bubbles on the internet.
A lot has shifted in terms of political positions and sentiment in the last few days alone.
I hope, the lesson amongst "the West" is that we again start talking more with each other rather than about each other.
A more level-headed attitude would be nice. *just my two cents*
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 402
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:08 pm

stratable wrote:
Hijacking this discussion a bit, my hope is, that in the next few years, "the West" and especially everyday people will
start to move away from jumping into opinion bubbles on the internet.
A lot has shifted in terms of political positions and sentiment in the last few days alone.
I hope, the lesson amongst "the West" is that we again start talking more with each other rather than about each other.
A more level-headed attitude would be nice. *just my two cents*


This seems interesting but can you clarify it a bit as far as what has shifted in the last few days alone? Just curious
 
User avatar
Mortyman
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:08 pm

Norway has decided to donate up to 2,000 M72 LAW anti-tank weapons to Ukraine in adittion to previous announced helmets and other protective gear.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/ ... _IJmE3UpjA
 
User avatar
PixelPilot
Posts: 967
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:09 pm

stratable wrote:
Hijacking this discussion a bit, my hope is, that in the next few years, "the West" and especially everyday people will
start to move away from jumping into opinion bubbles on the internet.
A lot has shifted in terms of political positions and sentiment in the last few days alone.
I hope, the lesson amongst "the West" is that we again start talking more with each other rather than about each other.
A more level-headed attitude would be nice. *just my two cents*


I agree. EU unified quite nicely in the past week.
Hopefully everybody understands that only (at least) similar goals can extended the life as we know on our side of the world.
The alternative (AGAIN) unveiled itself just recently.
Hope US follows although I'm not that much optimistic in this regard.
 
User avatar
DanielsBrawley
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue May 18, 2021 12:02 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:11 pm

stratable wrote:
Hijacking this discussion a bit, my hope is, that in the next few years, "the West" and especially everyday people will
start to move away from jumping into opinion bubbles on the internet.
A lot has shifted in terms of political positions and sentiment in the last few days alone.
I hope, the lesson amongst "the West" is that we again start talking more with each other rather than about each other.
A more level-headed attitude would be nice. *just my two cents*



Well said. Seems like every decade or two we need a swift kick in the ass to remember civility and respect are more constructive.
 
User avatar
argentinevol98
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:11 pm

flipdewaf wrote:

When do you think putin starting acting like an abusive partner?


On that matter, Putin is known to have been an abusive partner and it quite supportive of domestic abuse himself:

https://www.deccanherald.com/content/20 ... eater.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... c-violence

Now, that might seem off-topic but it paints a picture of a certain kind of man who thinks that very way. That violence can be justified when one doesn’t give the other what they want, regardless of their right. This would fit in a way into the constructivist lens of IR that looks for cultural, or even personal, traits of decision makers in a conflict.
 
stratable
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:22 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:19 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
stratable wrote:
Hijacking this discussion a bit, my hope is, that in the next few years, "the West" and especially everyday people will
start to move away from jumping into opinion bubbles on the internet.
A lot has shifted in terms of political positions and sentiment in the last few days alone.
I hope, the lesson amongst "the West" is that we again start talking more with each other rather than about each other.
A more level-headed attitude would be nice. *just my two cents*


This seems interesting but can you clarify it a bit as far as what has shifted in the last few days alone? Just curious


Sure:
Aaron747 wrote:
1. Nearly global economic punishment for Russia came together in just a few days.
2. A new Germany has emerged willing to go beyond 2% of GDP on defense spending for the first time in decades
3. Finland and Sweden have more distant ties with Moscow now than anytime since the 1960s
4. Russians - especially the wealthy - are being severed from most of the tentacles of globalization
5. Switzerland is edging out of longtime neutrality due to internal political pressure
6. China's play here remains opaque - at first they had Russia's back, now their Foreign Ministry is making self-contradictory statements on the invasion almost daily. As always $$ rules the roost there, and some observers think Xi has played Putin.
Incredible how quickly things can be reshaped.


I also have a bit of a German perspective here. The German public generally believed that it was possible to have a good business relationship with Russia,
and that through these and cultural ties, it was possible to forego a larger military. Eastern European nations have also not been too enthusiastic about a large German military in the last two decades,
primarily because of German history in Europe. While the British and French perspectives on this have shifted a while ago, Eastern European countries now also want a stronger German presence there.
The German public has been a bit naive/cautious/unenthusiastic about military activities/war in Europe for a number of reasons. This has now changed.

Seeing politics coming together against Russia across almost all parties across Europe and North America gives me hope for more political coordination amongst allies.
With almost everyone on the internet in Europe and North America coming together to support Ukraine, I hope that this gives people who tend to jump into opinion bubbles,
both on the left and right (for the US also including Democrats and Republicans), a chance to look at the bigger picture. It's not like this war will change things overnight.
I am just hoping we as Western allies get a fresh perspective on what's important and what unites us really.
Last edited by stratable on Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 6105
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:29 pm

Image
 
alfa164
Posts: 4155
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:38 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Ukraine shares a larger border with Russia and the president of Ukraine is actively trying to join NATO.

Well gee I wonder why that is! Russia can't have its foreign policy taken seriously by the rest of the world when it's all one giant self-fulfilling prophecy. Invading Ukraine to keep it out of NATO, because Ukraine is afraid of being invaded to keep it out of NATO!

Why does Ukraine have to join NATO? Why can't Ukraine simply be a neutral buffer state between Russia and NATO? Why does Joe Biden refuse to make that concession?


The real question is: why does Putin think he should be able to tell Ukraine - a sovereign, independent (albeit over-run with "little green men") nation - what they can and cannot do?

This has nothing to do with Joe Biden; he isn't telling Ukraine what it can and cannot do. It has everything to do with the lilliputian ruler of Russia, who thinks he should be able to control any country he wants. He has lost that battle for sure.


Newark727 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why can't Ukraine simply be a neutral buffer state between Russia and NATO?

Because Russians have been occupying its territory for 8 years?


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:



victrola wrote:
You Russians are so clumsy with your disinformation campaigns. President Zelensky is a Jew and you try to portray him as a Nazi. This might go over with your provincial population with no access to anything but Russian state media. However, here in the real world outside of the Russian echo chamber people are laughing at these assertions.


It seems like all of the quality the "commentators" in Saint Petersburg must have all gone to work at McDonalds, and only the amateurs remained...

;)
Last edited by alfa164 on Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 15980
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:52 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
**out of curiosity. Anybody here know what would actually change if Ukraine is accepted to EU during a conflict?
Besides the obvious of course.
I'm rather interested how enemy forces on EU territory would be seen as at that point in terms of legal engagement.
Seems everybody is pushing for this so I have a feeling somebody did the math and realized it will open a lot of possibilities without involving NATO forces.
Can't find much about it,


I doubt anyone with any say on the matter is pushing for a quick acceptance of Ukraine in the EU. The EU is a rules-based organization, you can't be made a member quickly. The quickest would be something like 5 years, and in normal times, for Ukraine, that would be a struggle, 10 years would be a minimum. In the meantime, an association would be put in place, the EU would provide funds to help the country meet the criteria, send experts, etc.

That would be for Ukraine before the war. During the war, it's not just impossible, it's unimaginable.

Also I believe some EU countries would need to have a referendum on the matter, it's definitely the case in France (has been put in the constitution).
 
ZKCIF
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:55 pm

What shocked me personally most of all was not the brutality of the attack. But the fact that today the city of Chernihiv was shelled. I have no idea how much you, guys and girls, are into history, but, to keep the long story short, that was a great city in the 9th, 10th, 11th centuries. Presumably about the 9th city in the world by population in the world in the year 1000 (for context, Beijing is No. 9 today). Chernihiv has an amazing architecture. Its 10th century cathedral is architecturally and culturally of immense value to all of eastern Slavs, including Ukrainians and Russians. I do not see any building in all of Russia being of such outstanding historical/cultural value. However, Russians risked this extraordinary SACRED building. That is the An225 of architecture and the history of culture, for God's sake. this is the ultimate barbarism to (risk to) destroy the live history museum of the region
 
masonh2479
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:57 pm

A video from Mr. Antonov, talks the fate of the 225 and shows the destruction that Ukraine is dealing with. https://youtu.be/oY7qtAmv7Ak
 
User avatar
Mortyman
Posts: 6208
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:03 pm

Very interesting

Why Russia is invading Ukraine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 5325
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:25 pm

Just a note to everyone..

We don't want flamebait or trolls here any more than you do. However, instead of making comments about us needing to take action, please report the posts so that we can become aware of it and take action. We don't sift through every post and every thread, because we don't have the ability to do so. Reporting posts let's us review them quickly and take action where it's needed.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 26521
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:33 pm

Ukraine invasion: Britons 'willing to die' to defeat Putin's army as volunteers prepare to travel to fight Russian invasion

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine- ... n-12554220

Just like many others around Europe Ukrainian ex pats are being joined by citizens of their adopted countries in going back to fight for freedom.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:40 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Apparently not long ago Ukrainian forces eliminated in one swipe 96 tanks, 20 Grad launchers and 8 fuel support trucks near lebedyn town.
Drones and artillery were used.

https://twitter.com/nevedimka123/status ... UKGVnyG%2F



Only few thousand to go!!!! But if anyone can do it it will be the Ukrainians!!!!
 
cpd
Posts: 7484
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:47 pm

OA260 wrote:
Ukraine invasion: Britons 'willing to die' to defeat Putin's army as volunteers prepare to travel to fight Russian invasion

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine- ... n-12554220

Just like many others around Europe Ukrainian ex pats are being joined by citizens of their adopted countries in going back to fight for freedom.



Yes, I saw Ukraine was calling for volunteers from around the world to join up. And these pro-Putin troll/spam groups and their posts only serve to encourage people to support Ukraine even more.

One thing, if you join up, does this come into play:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant

Mind you that's not clear cut either.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 12222
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:56 pm

Interesting:
The dire predictions about a Russian cyber onslaught haven’t come true in Ukraine. At least not yet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technolo ... a-ukraine/

Tugg
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 883
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:05 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:00 am

Ukrainian pilots are in Poland to pick up the fighter Jets!
“ The Ukrainian parliament on Monday tweeted that Europe was sending 70 fighter planes to Ukraine, including 28 MiG-29s from Poland, 12 from Slovakia and 16 from Bulgaria, along with 14 Su-25s from Bulgaria.

Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov on Monday said he had rejected the request, however, leaving Poland and Slovakia in the mix.”

So Bulgaria changed their mind? Shame on them.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-pi ... 21686.html
 
User avatar
Exrampieyyz
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:00 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Trump understands that Putin will never allow Ukraine to join NATO. That is why Trump and Putin got along so well.

https://youtu.be/PeLMmGvej-A

Tulsi Gabbard is one of the few Democrats who admits that Putin is simply drawing a line in the sand. He has already seen Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia all fall under NATO control. Putin knows that NATO is controlled by the United States. Ukraine is right on Russia's doorstep.

Joe Biden refused to declare in writing that Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO. That is why Putin is demilitarizing Ukraine. Any further NATO expansion in Eastern Europe is a threat to Russia's national security. Whether the American people like it or not, Ukraine is a vital strategic interest of Russia.

What threat has any country since nazi Germany been a threat to Russia. Not 1 armed military vehicle has enchoched Russian space. ( Yeah some unarmed U-2s, a Cessna, and a couple lost Korean airliners).
Yet Russia has sent troops to most of it's border countries and installed puppet régimes.
You wonder why all those countries want into NATO? You wonder why the Ukrainians are fighting so hard to not be under Russia's thumb?
Yes the Ukraine is a threat to Putin, not militarily but politically. They have a free choice and that is the scariest thing to Putin. The Ukrainians never threatened Russia with weapons. Their free system threatens Putin.
With a free system like the rest of the surrounding countries the Russian people could begin to prosper on their own without the corruption and heavy handed policing.
Putin doesn't care who he has to kill to keep him and his cronies in power. The quicker he is gone the better.
All the best to the brave Ukrainians!!!
 
T4thH
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:09 am

OK, regular, we are forced to do a descrition....In this case, I do not want to steel the "surprise"...
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1arzk/ukrainian_driver_finds_himself_in_a_middle_of/
War is shit.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:19 am

T4thH wrote:
OK, regular, we are forced to do a descrition....In this case, I do not want to steel the "surprise"...
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t1arzk/ukrainian_driver_finds_himself_in_a_middle_of/
War is shit.


Wow. It's like something from a movie, but instead its the reality of a civilian life in Ukraine.

Targeted bombing of strategic military assets by a competent aggressor doesn't get any more impressive than that. NOT.
 
User avatar
Exrampieyyz
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:48 am

Mortyman wrote:
Very interesting

Why Russia is invading Ukraine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE

Thanks! Really informative if you've got half n hour well worth it.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 12222
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:52 am

Exrampieyyz wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
Very interesting

Why Russia is invading Ukraine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If61baWF4GE

Thanks! Really informative if you've got half n hour well worth it.

Agreed, just finished watching it. :thumbsup:

Tugg
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2987
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:59 am

SRQLOT wrote:
Ukrainian pilots are in Poland to pick up the fighter Jets!
“ The Ukrainian parliament on Monday tweeted that Europe was sending 70 fighter planes to Ukraine, including 28 MiG-29s from Poland, 12 from Slovakia and 16 from Bulgaria, along with 14 Su-25s from Bulgaria.

Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov on Monday said he had rejected the request, however, leaving Poland and Slovakia in the mix.”

So Bulgaria changed their mind? Shame on them.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-pi ... 21686.html


According to Wikipedia, Bulgaria only has 16 Mig 29s and 14 SU-25s. Highly unlikely they’d be willing to give them all away. At least until the F-16s are online.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Air_Force
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18376
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:08 am

Major tone sharpening from China's MOFA spokesperson today...highlights:

AFP: Last week, you said that Ukraine was a sovereign country, but do you also think that the Ukrainian government is legitimate? If it is, are you calling on Russia to respect a democratically elected government?

Wang Wenbin: The sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries should be respected and upheld, and the purposes and principles of the UN Charter should be jointly upheld. This a principle China always follows and a basic norm governing international relations that all countries should adhere to. At the same time, China believes that one country’s security cannot be at the expense of others’ security; still less should one country flagrantly undermine others’ sovereign security for his own military advantage and absolute security. All countries’ legitimate security concerns should be respected.

AFP: On the nuclear issue again, in early January, Russia, China, France, the UK and the US reached a statement pledging to avoid a nuclear conflict, and stated that nuclear weapon should only be used as a deterrent. Do you think that Putin’s order possibly violated this pledge? 

Wang Wenbin: I already stated China’s position just now. I reiterate China’s consistent belief: a nuclear war cannot be won and mustn’t be fought.

AFP: Russia’s war on Ukraine is obviously not just targeting military sites, but is also hitting civilian targets. So in this context, is it not time for China to clearly condemn Russia’s aggression against a democratically elected government?

Wang Wenbin: All countries’ sovereignty and territorial integrity should be respected and upheld and the purposes and principles of the UN Charter should be jointly safeguarded. This is a principle China consistently holds and a basic norm governing international relations that all countries should adhere to. At the same time we recognize the special historical complexities on the Ukraine issue and understand Russia’s legitimate security concerns. China calls for efforts to completely discard the Cold War mentality and forge a balanced, effective and sustainable European security mechanism through dialogue and negotiation.


Mr. Wang also emphasized several times that Russia is not an ally of China, rather a 'strategic partner'.

http://www.chinaembassy.or.th/eng/fyrth ... 646378.htm
 
maverick4002
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:14 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:15 am

Ok Ukraine are putting up a good fight, but Russia are still advancing, maybe slowly, but they are getting there. Everyone is just watching and not directly helping.

What is the end game if Kyiv does fall? Russa takes over....then what. What is the reaction and next move for NATO / USA etc if this happens? Are they going to maintain the sanctions long term, is FIFA going to keep Russia out or will it all fade and then these govt's will eventually return to how things were two weeks ago?
 
ZKCIF
Posts: 513
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:15 am

I also liked 'Mortyman's' film. The only thing I did not like in it is that it NEVER highlighted the facts that
1. Ukraine has an independent history. The very first time that large parts of Ukraine got under Russian control was in the 17th century
2. The state of Ukraine has a tradition of ca. 1200 years (in comparison to 800 years of Russia)
3. Ukraine 'imported culture' from the Byzantine Empire; Russia 'imported culture' from Ukraine
Ukrainians are an entirely different nation from Russians in terms of language, culture, history and mindset.
 
Cardude2
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 1:55 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:20 am

this is my thought:
the only way Russia can get out of this war is to watch Ukraine join nato with no peeps out of his mouth. THAT'S IT!

Also good post Duality!
 
User avatar
Exrampieyyz
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:21 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-eur ... type=share

Oh look at all those juicy targets. Lined up so pretty.
Too bad the Ukrainians don't have really good air assets to take them out.
Shame there isn't a B-52 ready to toss some cruise missiles along that road or some A-10's in the area.
 
THS214
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:25 am

Exrampieyyz wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Trump understands that Putin will never allow Ukraine to join NATO. That is why Trump and Putin got along so well.

https://youtu.be/PeLMmGvej-A

Tulsi Gabbard is one of the few Democrats who admits that Putin is simply drawing a line in the sand. He has already seen Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia all fall under NATO control. Putin knows that NATO is controlled by the United States. Ukraine is right on Russia's doorstep.

Joe Biden refused to declare in writing that Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO. That is why Putin is demilitarizing Ukraine. Any further NATO expansion in Eastern Europe is a threat to Russia's national security. Whether the American people like it or not, Ukraine is a vital strategic interest of Russia.

What threat has any country since nazi Germany been a threat to Russia. Not 1 armed military vehicle has enchoched Russian space. ( Yeah some unarmed U-2s, a Cessna, and a couple lost Korean airliners).
Yet Russia has sent troops to most of it's border countries and installed puppet régimes.
You wonder why all those countries want into NATO? You wonder why the Ukrainians are fighting so hard to not be under Russia's thumb?
Yes the Ukraine is a threat to Putin, not militarily but politically. They have a free choice and that is the scariest thing to Putin. The Ukrainians never threatened Russia with weapons. Their free system threatens Putin.
With a free system like the rest of the surrounding countries the Russian people could begin to prosper on their own without the corruption and heavy handed policing.
Putin doesn't care who he has to kill to keep him and his cronies in power. The quicker he is gone the better.
All the best to the brave Ukrainians!!!


As the British parliament members say: Hear, hear. A wonderful post to its fullest.
 
User avatar
argentinevol98
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:40 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:28 am

Exrampieyyz wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=621d6d1eec502b53cd4802e7%26New%20photos%20of%2040-mile%20long%20Russian%20convoy%262022-03-01T00%3A52%3A10.313Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:2cf3a505-23f6-4932-b0c2-f90931f1920e&pinned_post_asset_id=621d6d1eec502b53cd4802e7&pinned_post_type=share

Oh look at all those juicy targets. Lined up so pretty.
Too bad the Ukrainians don't have really good air assets to take them out.
Shame there isn't a B-52 ready to toss some cruise missiles along that road or some A-10's in the area.


I have to imagine that the convoy is protected overhead by Su-27/Su-35/MiG-29. Not to mention all kinds of SAMs. I doubt it would be that easy for Ukraine to target. Perhaps artillery is a better option here. Unless Ukraine thinks it can get control of the airspace over said convoy.
 
THS214
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:36 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Ok Ukraine are putting up a good fight, but Russia are still advancing, maybe slowly, but they are getting there. Everyone is just watching and not directly helping.

What is the end game if Kyiv does fall? Russa takes over....then what. What is the reaction and next move for NATO / USA etc if this happens? Are they going to maintain the sanctions long term, is FIFA going to keep Russia out or will it all fade and then these govt's will eventually return to how things were two weeks ago?


There is a reason that Moscow stock exchange didn't open on Monday and Russian central bank has its rate at 20 %. Earlier was 9,5. Russians economy is toast. https://www.cbr.ru/eng/press/pr/?file=2 ... ey_eng.htm

Russian big companies are ordered to have 80 % of their assets in rubles. That tells all. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 889767.cms
 
User avatar
Exrampieyyz
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:04 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:38 am

argentinevol98 wrote:
Exrampieyyz wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60542877?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=621d6d1eec502b53cd4802e7%26New%20photos%20of%2040-mile%20long%20Russian%20convoy%262022-03-01T00%3A52%3A10.313Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:2cf3a505-23f6-4932-b0c2-f90931f1920e&pinned_post_asset_id=621d6d1eec502b53cd4802e7&pinned_post_type=share

Oh look at all those juicy targets. Lined up so pretty.
Too bad the Ukrainians don't have really good air assets to take them out.
Shame there isn't a B-52 ready to toss some cruise missiles along that road or some A-10's in the area.


I have to imagine that the convoy is protected overhead by Su-27/Su-35/MiG-29. Not to mention all kinds of SAMs. I doubt it would be that easy for Ukraine to target. Perhaps artillery is a better option here. Unless Ukraine thinks it can get control of the airspace over said convoy.

Agreed a A-10 would not be a turkey shoot but some cruise missiles and or drones would make things very interesting for those Russians.
Hopefully those Stinger missiles find some overhead targets. News is the Russians don't have air superiority yet
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 15980
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 1:42 am

maverick4002 wrote:
Ok Ukraine are putting up a good fight, but Russia are still advancing, maybe slowly, but they are getting there. Everyone is just watching and not directly helping.

What is the end game if Kyiv does fall? Russa takes over....then what. What is the reaction and next move for NATO / USA etc if this happens? Are they going to maintain the sanctions long term, is FIFA going to keep Russia out or will it all fade and then these govt's will eventually return to how things were two weeks ago?


As we are seeing, it's not just about Kiev. The whole country is fighting. Even if Russia "wins", it will have a hard time actually controlling the country. The 2014 sanctions are still in place 8 years later, so the new ones can last as long as necessary.
 
cskok8
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:37 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:54 am

The Ukrainian representative made a very interesting comment at the UN General Assembly yesterday. He questioned the legitimacy of Russian taking over USSR's seat in the UN. Was there any vote in the General Assembly? Interestingly, Ukraine and Belarus (Byelorussia) were founder members of the UN along with the USSR

https://unece.org/member-states-and-mem ... sentatives
 
User avatar
alberchico
Topic Author
Posts: 3707
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:07 am

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... e-00012340

Apologies if this has been posted but it is a good read.
 
victrola
Posts: 938
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:31 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:21 am

I have been watching TV for the last several hours where they are showing this long convoy of trucks moving down towards Kiev. Here you have this long line of trucks on this narrow road. It seems like a few guys with some RPGs could wreak havoc on this convoy. You knock out a few trucks and you cause a massive traffic jam. I am no military expert, and I suppose there is some reason why this is not happening. However, nobody on TV is asking this question. It seems like an obvious question a competent journalist would ask.
 
User avatar
alberchico
Topic Author
Posts: 3707
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:48 am

https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-econ ... ing-reduce

Is it possible that Russia could join the Chinese equivalent of Swift and decouple themselves from the dollar and stabilize their economy ? If Russia successfully shifts its trade payments out of the dollar system, the blow to American prestige and power would be enormous.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 24413
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:04 am

alberchico wrote:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3168684/what-chinas-swift-equivalent-and-could-it-help-beijing-reduce

Is it possible that Russia could join the Chinese equivalent of Swift and decouple themselves from the dollar and stabilize their economy ? If Russia successfully shifts its trade payments out of the dollar system, the blow to American prestige and power would be enormous.

At some point, they must bridge to dollars or Sterling.

The Chinese system isn't as competitive for a reason. For those countries that follow international law, SWIFT provides a competitive advantage.

If China aids Russia too much, they are next for sanctions.

Lightsaber
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 24413
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:04 am

cskok8 wrote:
The Ukrainian representative made a very interesting comment at the UN General Assembly yesterday. He questioned the legitimacy of Russian taking over USSR's seat in the UN. Was there any vote in the General Assembly? Interestingly, Ukraine and Belarus (Byelorussia) were founder members of the UN along with the USSR

https://unece.org/member-states-and-mem ... sentatives

Now that should go up for a vote!
 
User avatar
CitizenJustin
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:08 am

Russian soldiers don’t even know why they’re in Ukraine. Listen to this young POW talking to his mother. He was clueless that they were the aggressor.

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasf ... _doing_in/
 
wingman
Posts: 4332
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:10 am

alberchico wrote:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3168684/what-chinas-swift-equivalent-and-could-it-help-beijing-reduce

Is it possible that Russia could join the Chinese equivalent of Swift and decouple themselves from the dollar and stabilize their economy ? If Russia successfully shifts its trade payments out of the dollar system, the blow to American prestige and power would be enormous.


The article itself implies nothing of the sort. It says that the Rouble is .26% of all SWIFT currency movement. If Russia abandoned SWIFT it would be like one of those late night farts that pulls you momentarily out of REM before you gently fall back to sleep in utter contentment. Russia has nukes and that’s pretty much the extent of its ability to deal a blow to anyone’s prestige, except maybe Snake Island. The country is completely bereft of any useful quality to advance the prospects of mankind. As far as I’m concerned China can have them.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 24413
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:13 am

cpd wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Ukraine invasion: Britons 'willing to die' to defeat Putin's army as volunteers prepare to travel to fight Russian invasion

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine- ... n-12554220

Just like many others around Europe Ukrainian ex pats are being joined by citizens of their adopted countries in going back to fight for freedom.



Yes, I saw Ukraine was calling for volunteers from around the world to join up. And these pro-Putin troll/spam groups and their posts only serve to encourage people to support Ukraine even more.

One thing, if you join up, does this come into play:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant

Mind you that's not clear cut either.

I posted a link upthread on Russia denouncing the Geneva convention in 2019. There is no law of war thus in a fight vs. Russia. These troops won't be well enough trained to have a long life, sadly.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russ ... SKBN1WW2IN

So anyone fighting the Russians must fight to the death anyway, in my opinion.

Lightsaber
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 18376
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:23 am

lightsaber wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3168684/what-chinas-swift-equivalent-and-could-it-help-beijing-reduce

Is it possible that Russia could join the Chinese equivalent of Swift and decouple themselves from the dollar and stabilize their economy ? If Russia successfully shifts its trade payments out of the dollar system, the blow to American prestige and power would be enormous.

At some point, they must bridge to dollars or Sterling.

The Chinese system isn't as competitive for a reason. For those countries that follow international law, SWIFT provides a competitive advantage.

If China aids Russia too much, they are next for sanctions.

Lightsaber


With the comments posted earlier from the Chinese foreign ministry, it is most likely they have already calculated their strategy to maximize leverage on Russia. It won't be so much aid as taking advantage of their situation.
 
art
Posts: 5163
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:05 am

lightsaber wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
The Ukrainian representative made a very interesting comment at the UN General Assembly yesterday. He questioned the legitimacy of Russian taking over USSR's seat in the UN. Was there any vote in the General Assembly? Interestingly, Ukraine and Belarus (Byelorussia) were founder members of the UN along with the USSR

https://unece.org/member-states-and-mem ... sentatives

Now that should go up for a vote!


No Russia at UN? That would make the organisation as useful as the League of Nations without the US.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14915
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:20 am

art wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
The Ukrainian representative made a very interesting comment at the UN General Assembly yesterday. He questioned the legitimacy of Russian taking over USSR's seat in the UN. Was there any vote in the General Assembly? Interestingly, Ukraine and Belarus (Byelorussia) were founder members of the UN along with the USSR

https://unece.org/member-states-and-mem ... sentatives

Now that should go up for a vote!


No Russia at UN? That would make the organisation as useful as the League of Nations without the US.


Putin said Ukrain is Russia, so by his logic Russia now has two seats at the UN. Removing the permanent Securiy Council seat also wouldn´t lead to a UN without Russia.

best regards
Thomas
 
art
Posts: 5163
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:32 am

Many countries have expressed their condemnation of Russia's attempt to take over Ukraine by force. Belarus supports Russia in this enterprise. China and India did not condemn it at UN Security Council vote. Are Russia and Belarus the only ones to approve the attack?

What action is going to be taken against Belarus? Belarus has at the very least aided and abetted* Russia's invasion.

* 'to aid and abet' is an expression used to describe assisting a criminal in the performance of a crime
Last edited by art on Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
N14AZ
Posts: 4503
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - News and Discussion Thread

Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:36 am

DanielsBrawley wrote:
stratable wrote:
Hijacking this discussion a bit, my hope is, that in the next few years, "the West" and especially everyday people will
start to move away from jumping into opinion bubbles on the internet.
A lot has shifted in terms of political positions and sentiment in the last few days alone.
I hope, the lesson amongst "the West" is that we again start talking more with each other rather than about each other.
A more level-headed attitude would be nice. *just my two cents*


Well said. Seems like every decade or two we need a swift kick in the ass to remember civility and respect are more constructive.

Yapp, this seems to be human nature (needing a kick in the ass to remember what is really important).

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kent350787, Taxi645 and 21 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos