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cpd
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:03 am

It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…
 
johns624
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:10 am

cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…
+1 Of course, Israel has to say that or it would make their occupation of parts of the West Bank look bad.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:48 am

cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:51 am

alberchico wrote:

Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


Russia has a history of invading its neighbours. Surrender to Putin and you embolden him, with the Russian population likely accepting their losses in favour of the win. Who gets invaded next, as it's likely to happen?

I take it you don't live in a country bordering Russia?

Israel could just as easily (and more correctly) have told Russia to get the F out. That would have been the right call.
 
cpd
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:18 am

johns624 wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…
+1 Of course, Israel has to say that or it would make their occupation of parts of the West Bank look bad.


Well, we don’t want to go there or this topic will be locked and no further discussion allowed. But certainly if they want to associate with the wrong crowd then let them face the same sanctions as Russia and Belarus.

Israel’s stance is totally wrong. You must not support this sort of aggression.

Much as I cannot believe the apologists we have for the Russian side here. Very disappointed.
 
Duality
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:00 am

Apparently cracks are forming. Mr. Putin is pissed...

https://cepa.org/putin-places-spies-under-house-arrest/


After two weeks of halting war against Ukraine, Vladimir Putin just suddenly launched an attack in a surprising direction — his beloved agency, the FSB.

The Fifth Service of the FSB, Russia’s main intelligence service, has been targeted and the leadership placed under house arrest, according to the authors’ sources.

Its head, Colonel-General Sergei Beseda, and his deputy were being held after allegations of misusing operational funds earmarked for subversive activities and for providing poor intelligence ahead of Russia’s now-stuttering invasion. The operation has hit serious obstacles, not least fierce resistance by the Ukrainian armed forces and the unity of the population, including most Russian-speakers, behind President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and his government.

The Fifth Service was responsible for providing Putin with intelligence on political developments in Ukraine on the eve of the invasion. And it looks like two weeks into the war, it finally dawned on Putin that he was completely misled. The department, fearful of his responses, seems to have told Putin what he wanted to hear.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:17 am

alberchico wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


I'm sure Ukrainians are very worried about causing Europeans and Americans to pay more for energy... I'm sure they feel they should abandon their freedoms and their country to live under a tyrannical, corrupt and dysfunctional dictatorship to assuage the World economy and so that you don't have to worry too much about inflation. It's only fair.
</sarcasm>

At least we know where you stand in the fight for freedom.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:32 am

alberchico wrote:
Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic.


Pragmatic? Perhaps. Knowing the worst to come? We all already know. But they of all people should also know that a smaller determined force can against odds, come out victorious.

I would be surprised if the Israelis actually said that or if they were just relaying what the Russian said.

As more days passes and another Russian general gets killed, it seems like the West believe that Russia has no chance to win this war.

bt
 
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alberchico
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:49 am

Francoflier wrote:
alberchico wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


I'm sure Ukrainians are very worried about causing Europeans and Americans to pay more for energy... I'm sure they feel they should abandon their freedoms and their country to live under a tyrannical, corrupt and dysfunctional dictatorship to assuage the World economy and so that you don't have to worry too much about inflation. It's only fair.
</sarcasm>

At least we know where you stand in the fight for freedom.


I don't know how Europeans feel about this war, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that if these sanctions cause prolonged misery here in the U.S, many voters will turn against Biden. There will most certainly be political and economic factors at play that will determine how long these severe sanctions last. A lot of this "freedom comes at a price" rhetoric might resonate with Europeans, but with the average American, after having suffered a beating with this epidemic, not so much. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, I'm just being brutally honest. The economy is more important to people than a war in some far off nation. Even the NY Times brings up the question of whether these sanctions are sustainable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/09/worl ... onomy.html

"Now, both sides face a test of their ability to maintain domestic support for a standoff whose costs will be borne by regular citizens. More than a battle of wills, it is a test of two opposing systems."
 
cpd
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:36 am

alberchico wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


Pragmatic? I'm sure you'd be pragmatic if your homeland was under threat of being taken over by a dictatorship. If that should ever occur, I'll remember to remind you to be pragmatic.

No caving in. Putin needs to back down and then resign.
 
GDB
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 8:13 am

alberchico wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
alberchico wrote:

Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


I'm sure Ukrainians are very worried about causing Europeans and Americans to pay more for energy... I'm sure they feel they should abandon their freedoms and their country to live under a tyrannical, corrupt and dysfunctional dictatorship to assuage the World economy and so that you don't have to worry too much about inflation. It's only fair.
</sarcasm>

At least we know where you stand in the fight for freedom.


I don't know how Europeans feel about this war, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that if these sanctions cause prolonged misery here in the U.S, many voters will turn against Biden. There will most certainly be political and economic factors at play that will determine how long these severe sanctions last. A lot of this "freedom comes at a price" rhetoric might resonate with Europeans, but with the average American, after having suffered a beating with this epidemic, not so much. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, I'm just being brutally honest. The economy is more important to people than a war in some far off nation. Even the NY Times brings up the question of whether these sanctions are sustainable.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/09/worl ... onomy.html

"Now, both sides face a test of their ability to maintain domestic support for a standoff whose costs will be borne by regular citizens. More than a battle of wills, it is a test of two opposing systems."


Well for a start it’s a lot closer for us, the economic effects worse, guess where the refugees are?
Yes it does resonate, you might be right, the US electorate, might be of help to Putin once again, as in 2016. My Mother, 91 in June, can remember being bombed, then seeing V-1’s hearing the luckily fairly distant V-2 blasts.
This whole ‘woe is us’ reminds an event much alluded to, the Cuban Missile Crisis, (when the US had a 17 to 1 advantage in nuclear weapons that could reach the USSR), in their daily phone calls JFK was not going to repeat one thing the British PM casually mentioned, ‘of course we’ve had these things aimed at us for a few years now, you get used to it’

I don’t doubt the other response from the GOP for purely political advantage, for not going in with aircraft or even troops, Biden has warned where that would likely lead, where the economic hit would be the least of their problems.
You don’t have that 1962 strategic weapons advantage now.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:08 am

alberchico wrote:
I don't know how Europeans feel about this war, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that if these sanctions cause prolonged misery here in the U.S, many voters will turn against Biden.


Oh the humanity of having to pay realistic prices for petrol. My heart bleeds.

Land of the free and home of the brave. :sarcastic:
 
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 9:15 am

william wrote:
marcelh wrote:
leader1 wrote:

China and Russia have had a media deal since 2018.

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d774e7851 ... are_p.html

So, not sure why anyone is surprised. They've been pushing Russian propaganda points throughout this war.

https://www.rferl.org/a/china-echoes-ru ... 45136.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/china/ch ... index.html

And this is nothing compared to what you see on Chinese social media (WeChat, Weibo, etc.). If you can read Chinese, check out the most popular topics and most of the comments regarding the war. Chinese social media is heavily censored and you see virtually no pro-Ukraine posts or comments. Gives you an idea where their loyalties lie.



China could have invested in these countries regardless of conflict or not. Indeed, that's what they've done in Central Asia (much to Russia's chagrin) and that wouldn't have been possible if today's chaos was around a few years ago. They'd prefer things to be much calmer.

Regarding Russia, the link is more ideological and not so much economics. Xi is much more of an ideologue compared to his previous three predecessors. Both Xi and Putin think the West is in decline and they're uniting on that front, nothing more. Xi probably thought the West's reaction would have been as united as it has been and that Ukraine would welcome Russian forces with open arms. Those misreads, coupled with Ukraine valiant fighting has taken China aback and they're trying to adjust to an ever shifting ground, something they're not used to and aren't equipped to handle. They can't deviate from their original Russian support, but it makes them look bad abroad, especially in Europe, if they double down on their original position.


So sanction China also.


As you type on your made in China, computer, smartphone, and Tesla.


I think it's pretty hilarious that people think all computers and smartphones are made in China, they are not, or that China could build either without importing all the high end components for it.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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Aesma
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:41 am

alberchico wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


The EU has decided to phase out buying Russian oil and gas over 5 years. It's not even a sanction, it's a strategic decision. The rest of the sanctions don't matter much in comparison to embargoing 2/3 of Russian hydrocarbon exports.
 
ZKCIF
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:55 am

Oh wow wow wow what can I say. Ukraine should be pragmatic and surrender. For the benefit of the USA. Amazing. The Land of the Free buys economic welfare at the expense of the slavery of another land. I joined the freedom-fighting movement in Lithuania in 1982. when I was 7. At that age, I was warned by 'men in grey' that by the age of 14 I would be living in prison. Damn did I care. I fought for the freedom of my nation in every way I could, by explaining my classmates what was wrong with the USSR, by sharing the news from the free world, by refusing to wear soviet symbols on my school uniform and wearing the Lithuanian ones instead. And at least one member of our board would have advised me not to fight for the freedom of my Country...
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:59 am

Aesma wrote:
alberchico wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


The EU has decided to phase out buying Russian oil and gas over 5 years. It's not even a sanction, it's a strategic decision. The rest of the sanctions don't matter much in comparison to embargoing 2/3 of Russian hydrocarbon exports.


Exactly. The decisions of America, EU and UK to move away from Russian hydrocarbons aren't just "today" or "today and tomorrow" decisions, they're basically "forever" decisions.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:08 am

alberchico wrote:
if these sanctions cause prolonged misery here in the U.S, many voters will turn against Biden.


I disagree. Left have no choice but support. The right still has not shifted since the election so there is none to turn. That leaves the moderate. I believe the moderate is still patriotic enough to put politics aside when faced with an existential threat. I don't think they will be too numb from all the videos of bombed out buildings.

bt
Last edited by bikerthai on Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:19 am

We talk about the sanctions impacting the economy but fail to see a far more reaching impact of potential lost wheat production from Ukraine if war drag on through the planing season.

I guess the American wheat farmer (who are mostly conservatived) will benefit from this war won't they.

bt
 
JJJ
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:38 am

tommy1808 wrote:
william wrote:
marcelh wrote:

So sanction China also.


As you type on your made in China, computer, smartphone, and Tesla.


I think it's pretty hilarious that people think all computers and smartphones are made in China, they are not, or that China could build either without importing all the high end components for it.

Best regards
Thomas


Exactly. Without ASML (and a couple Japanese companies) there are no chips.

On a separate note, it's quite satisfying watching all the Putin-loving and Putin-funded populists trying to erase their track record and former links.

Italy's Salvini was trying to do an photo op on the Polish-Ukrainian border and was shown the Putin T-shirt he wore on a famous photo a few years back by the towns mayor (himself also a populist that was opposed to Ukrainian immigration, but at least is showing restraint during the crisis).

https://twitter.com/marcobreso/status/1 ... 8762485761

Or Nigel Farage having a realisation moment.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ni ... 23741.html
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:41 am

This is how unimaginative the current Russian effort has become.

During a meeting for Russia's Security Council, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that people from the Middle East account for roughly 16,000 applicants, Reuters reported.


Where did they get the 16,000?

According to the Ukrainian President, more than 16,000 foreigners have volunteered so far. Reuters reports that many of them are seeing this as a “once in a generation showdown between the forces of democracy and dictatorship.”


bt
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:54 am

bikerthai wrote:
This is how unimaginative the current Russian effort has become.

During a meeting for Russia's Security Council, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that people from the Middle East account for roughly 16,000 applicants, Reuters reported.


Where did they get the 16,000?

According to the Ukrainian President, more than 16,000 foreigners have volunteered so far. Reuters reports that many of them are seeing this as a “once in a generation showdown between the forces of democracy and dictatorship.”


bt


I like Putin's use of the words 'volunteers' or 'applicants'... Yeah. I'm sure they're lining out the door over in Damascus. :sarcastic:
 
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Aesma
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:37 pm

Even if you're in Assad's camp in Syria, I don't see how you can really like Russia. Sure, Russia helped your camp "keep" your country, except the country is still in a civil war, and its cities are turned to dust. It's not like Russia is sending tons of economic aid to rebuild either (unlike the US after having liberated Europe, sometimes by razing cities too). So at best you have some gratitude but that's it. And of course, you don't have anything against Ukrainians either, that war isn't your concern at all.

ltbewr wrote:
One of the big issues that will likely develop from this war is the loss of the wheat and other grain crops in the Ukraine at least for this year and potentially for several years, critical for Russia and other countries. That is why Russia took over Ukraine in the 1930's, committing a holocaust of mass death in collectivization of farms to take control of those grain products, but instated destroyed the productivity of the region for decades. If these crops cannot be planted, grow or harvested, it will cause grain prices worldwide, like with oil, go up a lot in price and in turn the price of most food products. Additional production in the USA could offset that but various market issues, droughts, loss of China as a market due to then Pres. Trump's anti-China polices may mean less replacement production.


Macron talked about it at the Versailles summit, saying Europe must work out something, that would also include Africa, to avoid famines.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:06 pm

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... vIIDeQV2Pe

Looking at this video of a couple of skirmishes. If you start at about 3:50, you see cell phone video of an Ukrainian attack on what looks like a Russian group camping along a dirt/muddy road.

From the video it looked like some of the vehicles were stuck.

Yeah, know this is propaganda, but if you look beyond the shooting parts, you can glean a bit from the condition on the ground that the press does not report. It looked to me that the cell video shows the Ukranian attacking a group of vehicles that were already abandoned or lightly defended after getting stuck in the mud.

bt
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:41 pm

Aesma wrote:
par13del wrote:
ChrisKen wrote:
Hate to break it to you but the Geneva convention only applies to actions between signatories of it.

So all the actions by Ukraine with their POW's are sanctioned by the Geneva Convention?


No. If it gets to a tribunal they'll get told off and get a strong warning.

Geneva convention only applies if both sides signed it. Ukraine would be told to follow the convention, but a warning wouldn't be waranted.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 3:52 pm

bikerthai wrote:
We talk about the sanctions impacting the economy but fail to see a far more reaching impact of potential lost wheat production from Ukraine if war drag on through the planing season.

I guess the American wheat farmer (who are mostly conservatived) will benefit from this war won't they.

bt

The lost wheat, fertilizer, and food oil is a big deal. The war has already prevented too much near future planting.

Ukraine has banned fertilizer exports:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... e-ministry

Food prices are expected to go up 8% to 20%:
https://www.thepoultrysite.com/news/202 ... e-hike-fao

What is worse is countries are imposing partial or full food export bans due to all the unknowns.
Argentina and Hungary limit exports:
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ukr ... 00560.html

Lebanon bans food exports while they scramble for wheat:
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/20 ... kraine?amp

Egypt bans wheat exports for 3 months:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/ ... NewsSearch

If Russia decides to withhold wheat on payment concerns, this will get interesting. Russia already froze fertilizer exports at a bad time:
https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/p ... st-farmers

I believe food will be an issue in 2022. Mostly by the uncertainty (restrictions on exports) than the cut in supply.

Lightsaber
 
victrola
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:33 pm

bikerthai wrote:
victrola wrote:
Just disgusting. After all we have done for Israel, they stab us in the back.


Hold off on the vitriol my friend. Ukrainian officials have already stated that the Israelis did not say what was supposedly said. Perhaps it's a misinterpretation when the original leak occurred.

bt


I will hold off for now,
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - Civil Aviation Related *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:34 pm

GOP rep says no fly zones worth the risk, Russia might attack anyway:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukrain ... brian-mast

I personally agree.

Also, why haven't the Polish fighters been transferred to Ukraine? Poland is the next "speed bump," so they cannot risk going on their own. By flying them to Germany and having the US transfer the planes, you at least have 3 parties of NATO involved. That seems reasonable. Just transfer the planes before they lose more.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:35 pm

lightsaber wrote:
believe food will be an issue in 2022. Mostly by the uncertainty (restrictions on exports) than the cut in supply.


Wonder of its still early enough for Canadian and American to adjust their crop planting to compensate for the potential loss. I understand that standard practice leave some fields fallow each year to build up the soil. Perhaps this is the year to utilize all available land for production.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:45 pm

victrola wrote:
will hold off for now,


:highfive:


The reason why I was suspicious of the comment is that Israel has a large population of both Ukranians and Russian, with it is unlikely they would press for one side or the other.

According to rough estimates, there are close to 400,000 immigrants in each group, with the Ukrainian-born immigrants outnumbering their Russian-born counterparts by a small margin.


https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.pr ... 1.10599363

bt
 
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alberchico
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:04 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_I ... 4764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:13 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?

We all know you can't wait for Ukraine to be cut off and capitulate. But no. Russia is talking crap like they always do. Sounds like our aid is effective.

The last thing Russia wants or needs is for the west to use air defense to protect our convoys in. Add to their already high air losses.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:26 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?


Well, they are already targeting civilian vehicles in Ukraine, so no surprise here. Or he means attacking convoys before they cross the border to Ukraine? Does he really want to activate Article 5?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:34 pm

bikerthai wrote:
This is how unimaginative the current Russian effort has become.

During a meeting for Russia's Security Council, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said that people from the Middle East account for roughly 16,000 applicants, Reuters reported.


Where did they get the 16,000?

According to the Ukrainian President, more than 16,000 foreigners have volunteered so far. Reuters reports that many of them are seeing this as a “once in a generation showdown between the forces of democracy and dictatorship.”


bt


It’s frankly amazing that Putin effectively admits that the Russian military has been an embarrassment and he needs to bring in mercenaries.
 
johns624
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:34 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?


Well, they are already targeting civilian vehicles in Ukraine, so no surprise here. Or he means attacking convoys before they cross the border to Ukraine? Does he really want to activate Article 5?
I agree. The convoys are already targets once they are in Ukraine. I'm sure they will have air cover to the border, now that he's threatened. I don't know how much interdiction capability Russia has, especially at night.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:45 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Or he means attacking convoys before they cross the border to Ukraine?


No convoy, just a bunch of small shipments that can not be tracked.

You would need smart munitions to hit these shipments, and we already see that the Russian is either reluctant to use smart munitions en masse or do not have sufficient quantity to use in whole sale.

bt
Last edited by bikerthai on Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 5:48 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?


It’s clearly what you want to happen, but I suspect you’ll be disappointed. Let me know what size “Putin is my hero” t-shirt you want.
 
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par13del
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:05 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?

Military aid convoys into a combat zone are / were always legitimate targets, the issue is where, once they cross the border they are fair game.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:08 pm

To be fair, the people "blaming Biden for high gas prices" aren't just oblivious to Ukraine. They point to other past policy decisions that are making the current situation hurt more, plus his handling of Russia prior to the invasion (maybe if he did X or Y, he could've dissuaded Putin from invading), etc.

I think there is some truth to it, and misses the mark in other regards. But let's at least understand the argument.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:13 pm

Post respectfully.
 
M564038
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:17 pm

Words like «legitimate» and «fair game» is not proper words to use about a unprovoked, criminal invasion of a democratic, sovereign european nation.
The russian actions are simple murder no matter which targets they hit.

par13del wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?

Military aid convoys into a combat zone are / were always legitimate targets, the issue is where, once they cross the border they are fair game.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:18 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?


Or going the Lusitania route, gives the U.S. an excuse......

Not that I'm advocating the U.S. goes in that direction, because IMO they should not.
 
alfa164
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:25 pm

scbriml wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899
We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?

It’s clearly what you want to happen, but I suspect you’ll be disappointed. Let me know what size “Putin is my hero” t-shirt you want.


Or perhaps a "Putin's signature is on my paycheck" t-shirt...

;)
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 6:42 pm

alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899

We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?

Nope, it means step them up because they are working. I’m sure if it were possible to see any emotions through the little puffy ill face of putin we’d see it was worried.

Anyone know how putin is able to pay his internet stooges these days with the payment issues and the lack of value for the rouble?

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
cpd
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:09 pm

I would agree. This sounds like desperation - the arms are working well so let’s step up the shipments.

I’d also like to know how Putin is paying his foreign keyboard gang to keep posting so much of this propaganda and disinformation?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 7:26 pm

alfa164 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1502667894764752899
We all knew this was going to happen. So this spells the end of military aid ?

It’s clearly what you want to happen, but I suspect you’ll be disappointed. Let me know what size “Putin is my hero” t-shirt you want.


Or perhaps a "Putin's signature is on my paycheck" t-shirt...

;)


Indeed. With the suite’s regular Russia apologists conspicuous by their absence, others are stepping up to the plate.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 10:43 pm

cpd wrote:
alberchico wrote:
cpd wrote:
It is said Israel has told Ukraine’s leader to surrender to Russia to end the war:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ru ... 65601771f7

Now Israel should also be hit with the same massive sanctions Russia is facing…


Or maybe they know that the worse is yet to come and they're urging Ukraine to be pragmatic. So when Russia eventually smash their way into the capital with brute force, and force whoever is in charge of the govt at that point to sign a treaty at gunpoint forcing Ukraine to give up large chunks of territory in exchange for an end to the war, then what ? Would the sanctions continue indefinitely, or would there be a strong desire on the part of Europe and the U.S. to ease them back , especially if gas prices and inflation skyrockets ? That is the big question that needs to be asked.


Pragmatic? I'm sure you'd be pragmatic if your homeland was under threat of being taken over by a dictatorship. If that should ever occur, I'll remember to remind you to be pragmatic.

No caving in. Putin needs to back down and then resign.


For the record, Israel hasn't told Ukraine's leader to surrender. I wonder where this fake news came from.

The reality seems closer to the following statements from the involved parties:
Israel denies urging Ukraine to heed Russia's demands


a senior Israeli official has called the report "patently false".

"Bennett has at no point told Zelensky how to act, nor does he have any intention to," the official told Reuters news agency.

In fact, "Israel is suggesting that Russia should assess events more adequately" an adviser to the head of the Ukrainian presidential office, Mykhaylo Podolyak, has tweeted.


https://www.observerbd.com/news.php?id=356993
(I have also read this report on BBC but I can't find a link to the story at the moment)
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:45 pm

:fight: is it too convoluted to say that some real Nazi sympathizer is trying to make Israel look bad? :rotfl:

bt
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:08 am

Comments getting really rich from the Russia's DFM: Speaking Saturday, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said that Moscow has warned the U.S. it would see the deliveries of Western weapons to Ukraine as targets.

Ryabkov said Russia “warned the U.S. that pumping weapons from a number of countries it orchestrates isn’t just a dangerous move, it’s an action that makes those convoys legitimate targets.”


https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/1 ... e-00016820

Tell us all about Iran and Syria again, Mr. Ryabkov. And what about those military cooperation and arms sales agreements with US allies in the Middle East? This guy is something else...
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:06 am

I hope that the 28 Mig 29s are already repainted and surreptiously on way or already transferred discretely into Ukraine.

This threat by Russia to respond to arms supply to Ukraine is a step too far. If Putin chooses to attack Poland or other NATO members because of arms assistance then the time is now to go full press. More delay leads to more innocent civilians dying. Russia keeps bombarding. Give Ukraine the damned Mig 29s.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:10 am

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