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AtomicGarden
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:31 pm

bikerthai wrote:
SRQLOT wrote:
There is unconfirmed reports that Ukrainians also got a 6th russian general kill.


The one that got run over would make 7?


bt


That was a Colonel
 
T4thH
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:38 pm

bikerthai wrote:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/7th-russian-general-killed-in-ukraine-senior-commander-murdered-by-own-troops-report/

Yakov Rezantsev was the seventh Russian general killed since the start of the invasion. Only 13 others remain.


Over a third of the generals are no more. That is quite the statistic.

bt

Still to be confirmed but yes....what the hell they are doing. But this is the sixt one, not the seventh according German news.
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Ukraine-Russischer-Armeechef-bei-Bombenangriff-getoetet-article23225018.html

Does anyone remember the Kherson airport, where Russia has lost all of these helicopters and much of the other equipment, like high amount of trucks e.g.?

If it is confirmed, this will be the second General, they have killed on this airport.
Now General Jakow Wladimirowitsch Rezantsew, commander of the 49th army, southern district.
Former already kiljed on this airport: Generalleutanant Andrej Mordwitschew, commander of the 8th army, southern district.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Something different, the Russian army is now fast failing in the southwest, so the former push to Odessa. According to US government announcement, it seems, the first Ukrainian units have reached Kherson/Cherson, the first fightings have started in the outskirts. Kherson is still under control by the Russian army, but. it seems, the counter offensive has reached the city. So, seems in few days, we will get the chance for some up to date pictures of the Kherson airport and of all of the equipment, which has been destroyed/lost there, I do not believe, the Russian army will be able to get rid off of all of the destroyed equipment and to hide the cathastrophic losses there.
Newsticker in German language, it will expire in next days:
https://www.fr.de/politik/news-ticker-ukraine-krieg-russland-armee-lage-front-verluste-zustand-soldaten-wladimir-putin-zr-91429939.html

Kherson was the only bigger city, Russia has till now captured and this in the first few days.
 
pune
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:41 pm

tomcat wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
tomcat wrote:

I don't have access to this Reuters article but the title seems a bit misleading given that Germany has announced today that they would end importing Russian coal by fall. Should we understand that Germany has objected to an immediate ban of Russian coal?

For the record:


https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/25/germany-wants-to-stop-using-russian-coal-by-the-end-of-the-year
Still remains the question of gas. That'll be harder than coal or oil.

We're seeing that energy security = national security almost.


The Germans have obviously long forgotten the value of diversification when it comes to energy supply and they didn't even bother to consider a backup plan by not building a single LNG terminal. What kind of irresponsible policy was that?


Think a lot of countries will think about it, the problem is if and when this blows over, would people persist and look at alternatives or would it be business as usual, that is the question to be asked.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:51 pm

scbriml wrote:
It seems that Russia is having a change of strategy in the war. Faced with ever-growing losses and now being pushed back by Ukrainian forces around Kyiv, it looks as though Russia will try and consolidate their gains in the Donbas region. This must be hugely embarrassing for Putin.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/2 ... bas-region
Russia has claimed that the first phase of its “military operation” in Ukraine was mostly complete, and that it would focus on completely “liberating” eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region.

The announcement on Friday appeared to indicate that Russia may be switching to more limited goals after running into fierce Ukrainian resistance in the first month of the war in Ukraine.


And Russia is preparing to transfer troops from Georgia to Ukraine:
Russia is moving troops into Ukraine from Georgia as reinforcements, senior US defense official says

The Russian military is moving troops stationed in the country of Georgia into Ukraine as reinforcements, according to a senior US defense official.

The US had seen “movement of some number of troops from Georgia,” the defense official told reporters, adding that the Pentagon could not provide a number for how many troops Moscow was moving or the timeline that they were on.


https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-25-22/h_4d72379915606b08386a28295e8787eb
 
AeroVega
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:53 pm

NATO must now act and roll some serious anti-aircraft and anti-ship missile systems into Ukraine. But maybe stay silent about it this time.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:08 pm

The Ukrainian military said in a statement Friday that Russian forces launched cruise-missile strikes on the Ukrainian Air Force command center in west-central Ukraine, causing "significant destruction" to infrastructure.


https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-25-22/h_4bbb69541d91617125f6c08926328730

This is one of the things I don't understand about the Russian strategy. We are one month into the war and they are just now attacking such an obvious target. Or could it be that they attempted to attack it earlier in the war but that the attack failed?
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:17 pm

Or they didn't know where it was.

As a matter of fact they may have hit some empty buildings but the Ukrainians may have claimed they got a hit.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:04 am

bikerthai wrote:
(Only 13 others remain.)

Over a third of the generals are no more. That is quite the statistic.

bt

Does (did) Russia really have only 20 generals? That number seems very low for such a large military. I guess there are (were) only 20 generals in the Ukrainian theatre of operations. If the latter then it should not be too hard for Russia to appoint another general.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:03 am

If each division has one commanding general, and each division have 10-15k soldiers, then the 200k estimated troops the Russian would have sent would have about 20 generals. Math works out.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:15 am

PlymSpotter wrote:
BBC reporting that Russia's 'first phase of the operations is over'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60882156

As the commentary states, this seems to be a clear admission that Russia's invasion is not going to plan. If they are going to concentrate on the South and the Donbass, I wonder if we will see the remaining territory held around Kiev and Kharkiv essentially abandoned by lack of ongoing support.


With the reduced scope, does it mean there is less reason for NATO to directly get involved. Thus, there is less chance for chemical or nuclear attack?

We'll have to see if the Russian can hold the land bridge to Crimea.

bt
 
pune
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:17 am

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
112 Gripes About the French

It is a handbook written by the United States military and given to enlisted personnel arriving in France after the Liberation.

At the end of the Wikipedia page their is a link to pdf (scan of the handbook), it is worth a read (69 small pages)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_Gri ... the_French

But to come back to Ukraine: In an answer about the black market they come to this conclusion (after having shown in many other answers how crippled France was after 3 wars against Germany in only 75 years):
If there is a moral for the world in all this, it is: don't ever let the Germans, or any other Fascist power beat you.


Best regards and strength to us all,
Jonas


Thank you for sharing that. I have read around half of it. It is instructive and educational in many ways. For e.g. the cheerleaders of the current Govt. had a thing about toilets. He made a toilet program that was funded, lot of corruption in it but was never exposed. Nevertheless, the idea that India doesn't have toilets was supposed to be due to the first Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru. India formally got its independence on 16th August 1947. From the book -

Incidentally, 9,400,000 homes in the U.S. do not have electricity. 80% of the farmhouses do not have toilets and running water. About 3,607, 724 do not have flushing toilets. This is on page 35 of the handbook itself.

Now the above is interesting as India had been thoroughly looted by the English for over 100 odd years and more. And America at that point in time IIRC was the beacon of the civilized world. Although I also do know from little I have read that the U.S. was just beginning to climb out the great recession of 1937-1938. IIRC, the 1930s America had a great famine or as some people call it, the dust bowl in that period of time.

It is fascinating to see what was written about the French, perhaps even today the French or rather EU as a whole is much better off than the U.S. as far as quality of life is concerned even today :)
 
johns624
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:18 am

If Russia needs a land bridge to Crimea because of the naval base there, things don't bode well for the countries between Kaliningrad and Mother Russia. Of course, that would be against NATO...
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:38 am

tomcat wrote:
The US had seen “movement of some number of troops from Georgia,” the defense official told reporters, adding that the Pentagon could not provide a number for how many troops Moscow was moving or the timeline that they were on.




The Devil went down to Georgia looking for some souls to steal.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:45 am

T4thH wrote :
So, seems in few days, we will get the chance for some up to date pictures of the Kherson airport and of all of the equipment, which has been destroyed/lost there, I do not believe, the Russian army will be able to get rid off of all of the destroyed equipment and to hide the cathastrophic losses ther

There is not much left to hide from the Russian side here. Watch the video and you can see what is left. This is a job for the srappers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5o3K5thT4
 
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alberchico
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:15 am

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... ready-lost

A good article explaining why Russia loses big with this war no matter what. So it looks like in order to save face, Russia will seize chunks from the East as well as a land corridor for Crimea and pressure Ukraine into accepting that as the price to end the war.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60872358
 
T4thH
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:18 am

oldJoe wrote:
T4thH wrote :
So, seems in few days, we will get the chance for some up to date pictures of the Kherson airport and of all of the equipment, which has been destroyed/lost there, I do not believe, the Russian army will be able to get rid off of all of the destroyed equipment and to hide the cathastrophic losses ther

There is not much left to hide from the Russian side here. Watch the video and you can see what is left. This is a job for the srappers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5o3K5thT4

I am were aware of this video ,as also of all of the satellite images tukk now oublished/available. In worst case for the Russians, this what we see here in this video, are few one digit of percent of the total losses of equipment on this airport. They have hit the airport several times before and several times after this video. They have even performed one big raid in the night of 07/08-Mar-2022 in the norther half of the airport and have blown up and damaged several helicopters.

As said I want to see the total number of losses of equipment there, these 40 helicopters and burnt out helicopter wrecks, the more than 100 trucks, vehicles, tents, APCs, tanks e.g..
 
oldJoe
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:25 am

petertenthije wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
(Only 13 others remain.)

Over a third of the generals are no more. That is quite the statistic.

bt

Does (did) Russia really have only 20 generals? That number seems very low for such a large military. I guess there are (were) only 20 generals in the Ukrainian theatre of operations. If the latter then it should not be too hard for Russia to appoint another general.


Simply NO !!!
I worked and lived overthere and can tell you I`ve seen myself more than 40 Generals. Keep in mind that in Riussian prisons the highest person is no more or less a general.
 
cskok8
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:52 am

Every 3-4 divisions will be commanded by a Corps HQ with perhaps 3 more generals. Then there is the Army HQ with another 3-4. So 40 sounds about right
 
oldJoe
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:09 am

T4thH wrote:
oldJoe wrote:
T4thH wrote :
So, seems in few days, we will get the chance for some up to date pictures of the Kherson airport and of all of the equipment, which has been destroyed/lost there, I do not believe, the Russian army will be able to get rid off of all of the destroyed equipment and to hide the cathastrophic losses ther

There is not much left to hide from the Russian side here. Watch the video and you can see what is left. This is a job for the srappers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf5o3K5thT4

I am were aware of this video ,as also of all of the satellite images tukk now oublished/available. In worst case for the Russians, this what we see here in this video, are few one digit of percent of the total losses of equipment on this airport. They have hit the airport several times before and several times after this video. They have even performed one big raid in the night of 07/08-Mar-2022 in the norther half of the airport and have blown up and damaged several helicopters.

As said I want to see the total number of losses of equipment there, these 40 helicopters and burnt out helicopter wrecks, the more than 100 trucks, vehicles, tents, APCs, tanks e.g..


The real number of losses from the Russian side we will never seen at least officiall. They (the Russians) keep this numbers as low as possible. I guess we live in the same country. I was there as a visitor when the Russian army went out of east Germany and saw myself how much scrap there was. Nothing really was in working conditions. Tanks , helicopters in rotting conditions , missing spare parts and so on ..... and there is the biggest problem for themselves. Claim to be a super power and unable to do basic things
I also lived and was working in Russia ( military involved ) and the normal population was unable to tell me the name of the president ( huh ) . Russians soldiers told me to be happy that Russia didn`t start a nuclear war because this would have been the end of the West for sure. When I asked them how this is your believe the simple answer was : we are Russians and we ever will win. This is how brainwash works, pure people I think.
I also have to admit that I met plenty of Russians real humans, people that only wants to live a happy live even a bit primitiv
 
Virtual737
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:41 am

SRQLOT wrote:

The article states he died in a belarus hospital. So was alive until that point. There is unconfirmed reports that Ukrainians also got a 6th russian general kill.


Dead or alive, i have it on good authority that he pulled out of next month's performance of Riverdance.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:41 am

[*]
pune wrote:
the U.S. was just beginning to climb out the great recession of 1937-1938. IIRC, the 1930s America had a great famine or as some people call it, the dust bowl in that period of time.


Just some clarification. It was The Great Depression -which is much worst than the Great Ressesion.

And there was no famine. Much of the dust bowl was created by bad farming practice in arid land and impact of the economic down turn. East of the Mississippi was as fertile as ever. Many who migrated from the dust bowl ended up in California which became an agricultural power house.

And some say that the US never really came out of the depression until WWII by providing arms and supplies for the war effort.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:47 am

cskok8 wrote:
Every 3-4 divisions will be commanded by a Corps HQ with perhaps 3 more generals. Then there is the Army HQ with another 3-4. So 40 sounds about right


So follow up question from above: Will they replace the dead generals with HQ staff or promote from within the division?

bt
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:13 am

So looks like Shoigu had a "heart attack".. no word on what has happened to Gerasimov but they haven't been seen for weeks.. Cracks appearing inside the Kremlin?
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:50 am

Does everyone remember the Iraqi minister of information? He kept saying the US was in retreat with severe losses. I am struggling to believe the high Russian losses.

I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly. Going into a city with armour will simply result in anti tank missiles firing from every building window. I feel that Russia wants to keep the news filled for the rest of the year. The world's appetite for another war will drop to zero.

The probability of the US defending Taiwan is no doubt dropping every week. It is obvious to me that Ukraine is the entree for the main course.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:11 am

RJMAZ wrote:
I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly.

If so, this would be the first time in history that an army intentionally went slowly.
There are many advantages to keeping the pressure up on an opponent.

Have you seen the videos of destroyed Russian armor? When you see those videos, which are taken by Ukrainian photographers, it is always evident that the Russians were defeated and driven back, because the photographers are always operating in "safe" territory for them.

And the Russians have to take the cities if they want to defeat Ukraine, nibbling around the countryside won't give them a victory.

The Russians are straight up being beaten by the Ukrainians.

Then there's this:
Russia scales back goals
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 022-03-26/
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:28 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Does everyone remember the Iraqi minister of information? He kept saying the US was in retreat with severe losses. I am struggling to believe the high Russian losses.

I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly. Going into a city with armour will simply result in anti tank missiles firing from every building window. I feel that Russia wants to keep the news filled for the rest of the year. The world's appetite for another war will drop to zero.

The probability of the US defending Taiwan is no doubt dropping every week. It is obvious to me that Ukraine is the entree for the main course.
You mean like how Lavrov is now playing the Russian version of 'Comical Ali' saying that there are no Russian troops in the Ukraine?

And that despite their milirary showing videos of troops there!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:55 am

RJMAZ wrote:
I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly.


What? They even accidentally broadcast their "victory announcement" a few days after the war started, that's how quickly they expected Ukraine to buckle.

Russia's mighty military is being shown up for the Potemkin Village it is - all they're good for is bombing schools and hospitals. When it comes to fighting against another military, they've been shown to be pretty useless.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:08 am

RJMAZ wrote:
The probability of the US defending Taiwan is no doubt dropping every week. It is obvious to me that Ukraine is the entree for the main course.


It has always struck me as insanity for China to launch an invasion flotilla across a hundred miles of sea in the age of the anti-ship missile.
But now it also appears to me that the javelin anti-tank missile would be the perfect defense against landing craft, if they ever got to within a mile of the Taiwan coastline.

It seems to me that the the necessity of the US defending Taiwan is dropping every week.
 
marcelh
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:28 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Does everyone remember the Iraqi minister of information? He kept saying the US was in retreat with severe losses. I am struggling to believe the high Russian losses.

I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly. Going into a city with armour will simply result in anti tank missiles firing from every building window. I feel that Russia wants to keep the news filled for the rest of the year. The world's appetite for another war will drop to zero.

The probability of the US defending Taiwan is no doubt dropping every week. It is obvious to me that Ukraine is the entree for the main course.


I suggest you read this https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:38 am

scbriml wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly.


What? They even accidentally broadcast their "victory announcement" a few days after the war started, that's how quickly they expected Ukraine to buckle.

Russia's mighty military is being shown up for the Potemkin Village it is - all they're good for is bombing schools and hospitals. When it comes to fighting against another military, they've been shown to be pretty useless.

Correct; the Russians are slowly loosing ground, having been pushed back from Kyiv, and Ukrainian forces are now back in Kherson, with the potential of now encircling thousands of Russian troops in a pocket.
 
art
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:09 am

scbriml wrote:
pune wrote:
Somebody asked from the Indian perspective. It is complex why India chose to side with the Russians. So let me give some of the reasons they chose as an Indian.

1. Historically, Russia has helped India a number of times.
2. In the 2014 elections that were held in India, there is a suspicion that Russians helped Modi come to power by providing money, intelligence, and whatnot, just like he is supposed to have done in the U.S. as well as in the UK (the Brexit vote).
3.India needs lots of arms and ammunition to defend herself and keep abreast of Pakistan. even though now China is supplying Pakistan with what they need. There is a lot that the Russians can give/sell us
4. India or in this case GOI or the Govt. of the day has an affinity to dictators if they are European in nature..
5. Russia and China just made a 'no limits' pact a few weeks/month back. India would like to be still in the play, if Russia goes fully under Chinese spell, then there would be lot of trouble for India.

These are some of the reasons. Ironically or because of it, India is using Russian disinfo to show that the Russians are winning and they are on the correct side. Heavy censorship is there

The above are some of the reasons.


That's a lot of reasons to try and explain why India chose the wrong side. Helpfully, they'll be regretting it for a long time.


Why should India be obliged to back one party or the other in this dispute? Let us suppose that distant Wayaway invades neighbouring Faraway. Do US, EU etc tell countries that there will be a cost to pay if they do not condemn Wayaway and continue to have trading and transport links with it? Some places and people matter to US, EU etc. Ukraine is such a place. Faraway is probably not such a place.

I condemn the invasion of Ukraine. I also condemn the war that has been ongoing in Yemen for years, causing terrible suffering to the civilian population. I have not seen the US, EU etc wringing their hands over the tragedy being played out there. Indeed, Saudi Arabia uses British weapons to prosecute the proxy war against Iran there. Some places and people matter to US. EU etc. Yemen is not such a place.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:37 am

art wrote:
I also condemn the war that has been ongoing in Yemen for years, causing terrible suffering to the civilian population. I have not seen the US, EU etc wringing their hands over the tragedy being played out there. Indeed, Saudi Arabia uses British weapons to prosecute the proxy war against Iran there. Some places and people matter to US. EU etc. Yemen is not such a place.

It's worse than you think. The US has been actively involved in Saudi Arabia and the UAE war against Yemen. We have had intelligence gathering ships patrolling Yemen's coastline for years. We have conducted hundreds of strikes in Yemen including boots on the ground raids against "al Qaeda" targets. It seems to me that if we wanted to hit al Qaeda, the place to start would be on the other side of the border: in Saudi Arabia. I believe the US actions in Yemen have been as much in support of Saudi Arabia's war against the Houthis as AQ.

Recently the US has sent the US Cole and F-22s to the UAE to protect them from Houthi attacks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... -pentagon/

IMO we should be sending the Cole to protect the Houthi from Saudi and UAE attacks.

Our ME policies are just as misguided now as they were under Bush.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:02 am

RJMAZ wrote:
. I am struggling to believe the high Russian losses.


Of course videos released by the Ukrainian Gov are selected for propaganda. However, the videos from the foreign press are not sensored other than them not showing lots of images of dead Russians.

Now from reading some of the interviews of Ukrainian soldiers, I get a sense that they lost many troops as well, but are not saying it for propraganda purpose.


Vintage wrote:
It has always struck me as insanity for China to launch an invasion flotilla across a hundred miles of sea in the age of the anti-ship missile.
But now it also appears to me that the javelin anti-tank missile would be the perfect defense against landing craft, if they ever got to within a mile of the Taiwan coastline.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thedef ... tract/amp/
The US Naval Air Systems Command has awarded Boeing a $498 million Harpoon Coastal Defense System (HCDS) contract for Taiwan.

The contract runs through December 2028 and includes “100 launcher transporter units, 25 radar units, and HCDS training equipment.”


Too bad the Ukrainians didn't have these at the begining of the war.

The Javelin is a direct fire weapon. For better range and if you got the money, the switch blade 600 would work better.

bt
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:22 am

Vintage wrote:
It has always struck me as insanity for China to launch an invasion flotilla across a hundred miles of sea in the age of the anti-ship missile.
But now it also appears to me that the javelin anti-tank missile would be the perfect defense against landing craft, if they ever got to within a mile of the Taiwan coastline.

It seems to me that the the necessity of the US defending Taiwan is dropping every week.

You are stuck in the 20th century. Most of the anti ship missiles could be intercepted or their launchers would get hit first. I would also expect drone swarms to take out anything that moves in the landing zone. I'm sure the Chinese soldiers will have some kind of IFF feature to protect them from the drones. But this is getting off topic.

With rising inflation and sky rocketing fuel prices the average US citizen will not support a large war to protect an island that most of them couldn't find on a map.
 
pune
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:31 am

art wrote:
scbriml wrote:
pune wrote:
Somebody asked from the Indian perspective. It is complex why India chose to side with the Russians. So let me give some of the reasons they chose as an Indian.

1. Historically, Russia has helped India a number of times.
2. In the 2014 elections that were held in India, there is a suspicion that Russians helped Modi come to power by providing money, intelligence, and whatnot, just like he is supposed to have done in the U.S. as well as in the UK (the Brexit vote).
3.India needs lots of arms and ammunition to defend herself and keep abreast of Pakistan. even though now China is supplying Pakistan with what they need. There is a lot that the Russians can give/sell us
4. India or in this case GOI or the Govt. of the day has an affinity to dictators if they are European in nature..
5. Russia and China just made a 'no limits' pact a few weeks/month back. India would like to be still in the play, if Russia goes fully under Chinese spell, then there would be lot of trouble for India.

These are some of the reasons. Ironically or because of it, India is using Russian disinfo to show that the Russians are winning and they are on the correct side. Heavy censorship is there

The above are some of the reasons.


That's a lot of reasons to try and explain why India chose the wrong side. Helpfully, they'll be regretting it for a long time.


Why should India be obliged to back one party or the other in this dispute? Let us suppose that distant Wayaway invades neighboring Faraway. Do US, EU etc tell countries that there will be a cost to pay if they do not condemn Wayaway and continue to have trading and transport links with it? Some places and people matter to US, EU etc. Ukraine is such a place. Faraway is probably not such a place.

I condemn the invasion of Ukraine. I also condemn the war that has been ongoing in Yemen for years, causing terrible suffering to the civilian population. I have not seen the US, EU etc wringing their hands over the tragedy being played out there. Indeed, Saudi Arabia uses British weapons to prosecute the proxy war against Iran there. Some places and people matter to the US. EU etc. Yemen is not such a place.


While I appreciate your candor and my understanding about Yemen is zero so it would be pointless to tell or make an opinion about that. Now, why India backs Russia is because her leaders haven't done anything for her public and this provides an awesome distraction from the zero effort they put in. There is another part where most of the party in power wants to do war like the Russians are doing but find themselves inadequate to the task. What I find comfort in is in between this Goliath and David fight, David is still standing. The Russians vastly underestimated Ukraine or their president or both. IIRC, it was supposed to be a 2-week thing. Now it's what 6-7 weeks something like that. If the Ukrainians can hold on for another couple of weeks, I am sure the Russians will give up one way or the other. It probably will go down as to who holds his nerve on the world stage.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:48 am

RJMAZ wrote:
With rising inflation and sky rocketing fuel prices the average US citizen will not support a large war to protect an island that most of them couldn't find on a map.


Do not underestimate the ability for the average American to withstand hardship if they believe the cause is just.

It would be interesting to know how many Americans know how to find Taiwan vs Ukraine prior to this conflict. My bet is more American knows about Taiwan than they did Ukraine as we got lots more press of US ship transiting the Taiwan Straight and it is so easy now a days to look up these countries in Google Maps.

Also, to China opening up in 1972, all the "Made in China" products were from Taiwan. We still gets lots of products with Made in Taiwan labels. Not so much made in Ukraine.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:58 am

RJMAZ wrote:
Most of the anti ship missiles could be intercepted or their launchers would get hit first.


Not sure about most, but many as the Ukrainian have shown the ability to shoot down a few cruise missiles. But many still found their targets.

As for the launchers, they are mobile, so lots more difficult to find. Will the Chinese have sufficient cruise missiles to prioritize air defense and coastal defense? We are finding that Russia may not have sufficient stock for the Ukraine fight.

I mean, the Russians still have not found and destroy all the SAM sites in Ukraine.

The other lesson for the Chinese would be to provide better point defense for their transport fleet.

bt
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:07 am

889091 wrote:
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/top-russian-military-figures-sergey-shoigu-and-valery-gerasimov-suddenly-vanish-from-public-eye/news-story/cd64a1107dec11756b96ba1e2f8a57a0

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has reportedly been experiencing "heart problems".

"Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu, one of Vladimir Putin’s closest confidants, reportedly hasn’t been seen in public for the last 11 days.
...
Shoigu has been described as a highly active figure in Russian media with public relations often being referred to as his “main weapon”, making his sudden disappearance during Russia’s largest conflict since the Cold War all the more curious."


Doesn't he hold the second key to the nukes?


A video has been released today showing Shoigu hosting a meeting about weapons procurement budget. This meeting is said to have taken place very recently.

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1507634022993866758
 
Virtual737
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:14 am

I occasionally like to read the stories and comments on rt.com. Partly to see if there are valid points of view in opposition to my own, and partly for my unending disbelief of most of the comments.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552736-lavrov-west-total-war/

The comments on this story have been the best so far.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:47 am

Virtual737 wrote:
I occasionally like to read the stories and comments on rt.com. Partly to see if there are valid points of view in opposition to my own, and partly for my unending disbelief of most of the comments.

https://www.rt.com/russia/552736-lavrov-west-total-war/

The comments on this story have been the best so far.


RT media are currently banned in EU. I hadn't really noticed it earlier but I remembered about that after clicking on your link :-).
 
Virtual737
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:56 am

tomcat wrote:
RT media are currently banned in EU. I hadn't really noticed it earlier but I remembered about that after clicking on your link :-).


That's a shame. Here are a couple of the comments that stood out for me:

"EU citizens are protesting against NATO already demanding their governments withdraw their country from NATO."

(unrelated to the above)

"Yes, Yes they are. And they are forcing the rest of the western vassal states to do the same. Maybe now Russia will understand. The best way to fight the Ukranians is by nuking every City on the USA mainland with a population over 10,000. Then work their way through other countries like UK, Australia, and Canada. Leave Europe alone"
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:30 pm

art wrote:
Why should India be obliged to back one party or the other in this dispute?


You need to ask?

Why would any sane person/government/country support an invading nation that happily bombs schools and hospitals?
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:25 pm

Another advantage the Ukrainians are exploiting is competent leadership by noncommissioned officers (NCOs), the officials say, which is also consistent with U.S. military doctrine and training.

"The U.S. puts a lot of focus on building a professional, noncommissioned officer corps of corporals and sergeants who understand the big picture and are given the delegated authority to make decisions on the battlefield as they lead their units," Barranco said.

"Junior officers are also taught to work closely with professional NCOs. The Russian military has acknowledged they have a problem with poorly trained NCOs and have started an NCO academy because they realize they do not have good leadership at the lower levels," he added.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.voanew ... 01513.html

Here is another less often discussed reason why the Ukrainians are doing better than expected.

Earlier was a question of how will the Russian replace their fallen generals. Well, for the Ukrainian, when these junior officers move up the ladder to become generals, they will remember the importance of their NCO and make sure their troops are adequately supplied and motivated.

bt
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:02 pm

Don't panic! Russia is in no danger of running out of generals, at all.
As long as you have these:
Major General: https://kumir.online/interesnye-lyudi/iriny-volk.html
Major General: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0 ... 0%BD%D0%B0
Major General: https://stuki-druki.com/authors/Markovs ... ssiana.php
Major General: https://news.dpthemes.com/v-mire/genera ... ilas/full/

Googling names returns plenty of saucy images online.
Here a fella complied some names together: https://david-mendel.livejournal.com/195327.html

No, russia's doing just fine on generals. And they also promote rapidly, if you look at biographies carefully. So no worries. More of these generals, please; it takes our boys too much effort to take out battle-harderned ones.
Last edited by Phosphorus on Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:08 pm

scbriml wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
I actually think Russia is intentionally going slowly.


What? They even accidentally broadcast their "victory announcement" a few days after the war started, that's how quickly they expected Ukraine to buckle.

Russia's mighty military is being shown up for the Potemkin Village it is - all they're good for is bombing schools and hospitals. When it comes to fighting against another military, they've been shown to be pretty useless.
Well during the Winter Waar the Soviets expected to take Finland in a few weeks. I think they managed about 20km in 2 weeks.

And Lavrov is obviously taking a note out of the book of one of his predecessors, Molotov, who claimed that the Soviet Union wasn't bombing Helsinki but dropping humanitarian aid.
Hence the "Molotov Bread Baskets"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_b ... prov=sfla1

Perhaps the Javelins or NLAWs could be nicknamed "Putin (or Lavrov) cocktails" after Molotov cocktails were used to similar purpose during the Winter War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_c ... prov=sfla1
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:53 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/europe/l ... index.html

Who would have thought... the "shift in strategy" to the east was just a RUSe :sarcastic:
 
Newark727
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:00 pm

SEAorPWM wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/europe/lviv-ukraine-attack-saturday-intl/index.html

Who would have thought... the "shift in strategy" to the east was just a RUSe :sarcastic:


I read an assessment to that effect yesterday; seems it was mainly an effort to save face domestically for the Russians.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:22 pm

Newark727 wrote:
SEAorPWM wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/europe/lviv-ukraine-attack-saturday-intl/index.html

Who would have thought... the "shift in strategy" to the east was just a RUSe :sarcastic:


I read an assessment to that effect yesterday; seems it was mainly an effort to save face domestically for the Russians.

Nice link. From it:
Russia continues efforts to rebuild combat power and commit it to the fight to encircle and/or assault Kyiv and take Mariupol and other targets, despite repeated failures and setbacks and continuing Ukrainian counter-attacks. The Ukrainian General Staff reports that the Russian military is building “consolidated units,” likely comprised of individuals or small units drawn from a number of different battalions, brigades, and regiments, to replace combat losses and deploying them on the west bank of the Dnipro near the Chernobyl exclusion zone, among other locations. Russian forces continue their grinding and likely costly advance in Mariupol as well.

Wait, units that were shredded are being combined to continue the assault? Are they insane? Historically, going from memory, such units must be only used in "do or die" scenarios where they know their lives are being risked for an incredibly good cause. Assault of a nation under a false flag pretext is not going to "stiffen their spine." This will result in more officers run over by their men.

Lightsaber
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 1590
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:44 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
SEAorPWM wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/26/europe/lviv-ukraine-attack-saturday-intl/index.html

Who would have thought... the "shift in strategy" to the east was just a RUSe :sarcastic:


I read an assessment to that effect yesterday; seems it was mainly an effort to save face domestically for the Russians.

Nice link. From it:
Russia continues efforts to rebuild combat power and commit it to the fight to encircle and/or assault Kyiv and take Mariupol and other targets, despite repeated failures and setbacks and continuing Ukrainian counter-attacks. The Ukrainian General Staff reports that the Russian military is building “consolidated units,” likely comprised of individuals or small units drawn from a number of different battalions, brigades, and regiments, to replace combat losses and deploying them on the west bank of the Dnipro near the Chernobyl exclusion zone, among other locations. Russian forces continue their grinding and likely costly advance in Mariupol as well.

Wait, units that were shredded are being combined to continue the assault? Are they insane? Historically, going from memory, such units must be only used in "do or die" scenarios where they know their lives are being risked for an incredibly good cause. Assault of a nation under a false flag pretext is not going to "stiffen their spine." This will result in more officers run over by their men.

Lightsaber


Please don't give them ideas. We desperately need more russian conscripts driving over russian colonels in their tanks. Better that, than actual humans getting hurt, if they go out to fight.
 
johns624
Posts: 5522
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:23 pm

lightsaber wrote:

Wait, units that were shredded are being combined to continue the assault? Are they insane? Historically, going from memory, such units must be only used in "do or die" scenarios where they know their lives are being risked for an incredibly good cause. Assault of a nation under a false flag pretext is not going to "stiffen their spine." This will result in more officers run over by their men.

Lightsaber
Not only that, but if they got their butts kicked while operating as units that "trained" together, they'll do even worse if they are put together piecemeal.

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