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Phosphorus
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:42 pm

Hezbollah newhires apparently heading our way
https://www.infobae.com/en/2022/03/27/p ... o-ukraine/
There are news outlets denying, and there others confirming, with some background.
Juicy details include delivery of these to the battle lines via Gomel airport in Belarus. Apparently to make Lukashenko even more tainted, and try to draw him deeper into the conflict.
 
johns624
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:43 pm

slider wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

It's the other way around. Putin understood/read Merkel perfectly, and lured Germany to become dependent on Russian gas and remain naively pacifistic.
Remember how hard Germany fought for that Nord Stream 2 pipeline despite all the resistance from the US and others?

Merkel was played like a fool by Putin all along, and now we see Putins long planned endgame unfold.

Fortunately Putin is heading a corrupt military which in the end will let him down, but the war in Ukraine is a big part of Merkels legacy.


Merkel will go down in history as one of the dullest and worst major political leaders of the century.


Indeed she will.

And a strong nation such as Germany is reduced to being a Russian puppet because of horrible energy decisions. Merkel can't be bellicose because Putin owns Germany and she knows it.
She also presided over a German military that withered away.
 
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keesje
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:46 pm

slider wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

It's the other way around. Putin understood/read Merkel perfectly, and lured Germany to become dependent on Russian gas and remain naively pacifistic.
Remember how hard Germany fought for that Nord Stream 2 pipeline despite all the resistance from the US and others?

Merkel was played like a fool by Putin all along, and now we see Putins long planned endgame unfold.

Fortunately Putin is heading a corrupt military which in the end will let him down, but the war in Ukraine is a big part of Merkels legacy.


Merkel will go down in history as one of the dullest and worst major political leaders of the century.


Indeed she will.

And a strong nation such as Germany is reduced to being a Russian puppet because of horrible energy decisions. Merkel can't be bellicose because Putin owns Germany and she knows it.


I think crisis often leads to bold, unsubstantiated claims, that don't need any discussion, because you're with or against us.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:53 pm

art wrote:
Am I not right in thinking that the majority in Crimea approves Russian occupation?

That may be true, but it's a squeaker from what I've read.

However, if the occupants of the Russian military (naval base and AF base) weren't there, along with people who should be considered carpetbaggers, it wouldn't even be close. The actual Crimeans, don't want the Russians there.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:00 pm

Headline:
Biden's off-the-cuff remark on Putin sends shock waves!
(among the click bait headline writers of the media)

As for me, I consider his remark parallel to Reagan's "Tear down this wall". I applaud his putting pressure on Putin. It's too bad that so many want to undermine the message.
 
M564038
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:25 pm

Agreed. He just said what needed to be said.
Putin needs to go. It is what every civilized person that consider themselves part of humanity see as self evident. To think or play up to some inpression that this is, or should be a controversial thing to say, is paying the fascist russians way too much respect. It is running their erand. Putin is a murder and a criminal of the worst degree, he also cheated in the last election, and do as such not command respect neither as a human nor as a proper state leader.

Vintage wrote:
Headline:
Biden's off-the-cuff remark on Putin sends shock waves!
(among the click bait headline writers of the media)

As for me, I consider his remark parallel to Reagan's "Tear down this wall". I applaud his putting pressure on Putin. It's too bad that so many want to undermine the message.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:42 pm

Joe Biden should say whatever is in the best interest of Ukraine. Saying that Putin should be removed is not one of those things, so he should not have said it. Only positive spin I can put on this is that it makes Biden look so stupid that Putin may be afraid Biden is going to do something even more stupid.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:47 pm

AeroVega wrote:
Joe Biden should say whatever is in the best interest of Ukraine. Saying that Putin should be removed is not one of those things, so he should not have said it. Only positive spin I can put on this is that it makes Biden look so stupid that Putin may be afraid Biden is going to do something even more stupid.

If you do mean nice megaton-sized mushrooms everywhere in Russia where matters, to cripple their capacity to ever wage war, that isn't stupid. Cruel yes. Necessary yes. Unfortunate yes. But stupid not.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:47 pm

AeroVega wrote:
he should not have said it.

Why not?
 
T4thH
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:47 pm

Vintage wrote:
art wrote:
Am I not right in thinking that the majority in Crimea approves Russian occupation?

That may be true, but it's a squeaker from what I've read.

However, if the occupants of the Russian military (naval base and AF base) weren't there, along with people who should be considered carpetbaggers, it wouldn't even be close. The actual Crimeans, don't want the Russians there.

Additional there is a small story, which is perhaps a little bit helpful to clarify something. A small but important story, which is not so known.
Seems there were some rumors regarding conscription of the youth in Crimea, to fight for their land...and it is said (I was not able to verify it as example by Google maps, but some seems to have done it)there were big travel jams from Crimea over the bridge to Russia..,.and from there to the next borders and out of Russia. The whole youth is leaving Crimea or has already.

There is a big difference between Ukraine an Crimea.
In Ukraine, the family are brought to the borders and the youth/males are driving back to fight.
(And I just have to look out of my office window, to see all the children, families, young women and elderlies and only the few young men. I have already seen thousands in my home city in Germany just last week (from my office window). And I have also recognized, that the young Ukrainian woman have organized themselves and not the young men, they are not involved).
In Crimea, the families are sending their youth/males to leave the country, not to fight ftheir "own brothers".
And I 100% agree with both sites, they are doing the riight thing.

Another thing: I am recognizing, that many English speaking YouTubers are now leaving Russia.
As Examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6fZ3HgYwWI
She and her family are now leaving Russia, see the video. Late edit, wrong link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8GL7Cah_Z8
Has just left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxaSBwd7IkU
Has just left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRoAXbOQhDI
NFKRZ is one of the most famous. He has left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbdCCzhH-jA
late edit: Thinking aboput to leave. He has now moved away from western part to the far east (Murmansk).

Ok not all.
I am just waiting, that she and her family leaves.
https://www.youtube.com/c/ElifromRussia/videos
Last edited by T4thH on Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:55 pm

T4thH wrote:
In Crimea, the families are sending their youth/males to leave the country, not to fight ftheir "own brothers".


Isn't there a conscription event coming up soon in Russia?

T4thH wrote:
Another thing: I am recognizing, that many English speaking YouTubers are now leaving Russia.


They do not want to get arrested by the new sedition law in Russia.

bt
 
M564038
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:01 pm

Of course he should say that. Anyone, including Joe Biden can say whatever they want about Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. He doesn’t command or deserve the power over anyone’s words. Saddam Hussein. Muhammar Gaddafi. Nicolae Ceausescu.
Do you have strong opinions of what Joe Biden should be allowed to say about these peers of Putin as well?

AeroVega wrote:
Joe Biden should say whatever is in the best interest of Ukraine. Saying that Putin should be removed is not one of those things, so he should not have said it. Only positive spin I can put on this is that it makes Biden look so stupid that Putin may be afraid Biden is going to do something even more stupid.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:03 pm

AeroVega wrote:
Joe Biden should say whatever is in the best interest of Ukraine. Saying that Putin should be removed is not one of those things, so he should not have said it.


Joe Biden should say what is in the best interest to the United States. He is not the president of Ukraine. Right now the best interest of the United States is Ukraine defeating Russia without Russian using NBC weapons.

One way to achieve this is for the Russian leadership to remove Putin. Which will cost fewer lives than a victory by Ukraine through a drawn out war. This "slip up" is a clear message to anti-Putin power that may or may not exists in Moscow.

It is a not so veiled message saying that if you guys remove Putin and pull out your troops, There is a chance you will get your money back.

bt
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:13 pm

Putin wants ‘Korean scenario’ for Ukraine, says intelligence chief


I don't know. Not sure I'm the people in the Dombas region wants to be a dependent state that face regular famines and stuck in time.

Of course,, the rest of Ukraine probably don't mind if it's border is protected by a demilitarize zone manned by the US and the UN troops, and their economy (in time) becomes third largest in the region :mrgreen:

bt
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:20 pm

slider wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

It's the other way around. Putin understood/read Merkel perfectly, and lured Germany to become dependent on Russian gas and remain naively pacifistic.
Remember how hard Germany fought for that Nord Stream 2 pipeline despite all the resistance from the US and others?

Merkel was played like a fool by Putin all along, and now we see Putins long planned endgame unfold.

Fortunately Putin is heading a corrupt military which in the end will let him down, but the war in Ukraine is a big part of Merkels legacy.


Merkel will go down in history as one of the dullest and worst major political leaders of the century.


Indeed she will.

And a strong nation such as Germany is reduced to being a Russian puppet because of horrible energy decisions. Merkel can't be bellicose because Putin owns Germany and she knows it.


Questions surely need to be raised about Merkel (I would go as far as to question her allegiance to Germany) but before her there was Schröder who is the one who initiated the NS2. And besides Merkel and Schröder, there are the greens who would sell their mothers and kids to close the nuclear powerplants. The greens are now the ones who are taking the lead to prevent the re-opening or the extension of the German nuclear powerplants. They are also the ones who just days ago started to protest against the recent decision of the Belgian government to extend the life of 2 nuclear reactors beyond 2025 (bound to obe replaced by gas fired powerplants). And in Belgium too, the greens follow a similar agenda. It's actually even worse. Until she took office our current energy minister (from a green party) was a founding partner of a law office which had the local subsidiary of Gazprom among its customers. As a minister she has done everything she could to prevent the decision to extend the life of a couple of nuclear reactors. Some recent reports have highlighted the generous financing of Gazprom towards the green parties in Europe or towards green lobbies connected to green parties. To keep a long story short I hope that if the heritage of Merket is revisited, efforts will be made to investigate all the alleys through which Putin could have increased his control on the political decision making across Europe.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:33 pm

Vintage wrote:
art wrote:
Am I not right in thinking that the majority in Crimea approves Russian occupation?

That may be true, but it's a squeaker from what I've read.

However, if the occupants of the Russian military (naval base and AF base) weren't there, along with people who should be considered carpetbaggers, it wouldn't even be close. The actual Crimeans, don't want the Russians there.


I think someone already posted this link upthread but anyway, it shows the results of the Ukrainian independence referendum in 1991. All the regions of Ukraine had a majority voting in favor of the Ukrainian independence. This is a serious indication about the national feeling of the Ukrainians even though the participation rate was much lower in Crimea and Sebastopol and to some extent lower as well elsewhere in southern and eastern Ukraine (Odessa, Kharkiv,...). So we can have some doubts about the supposedly high approval rate of the Russian occupation of Crimea and Donbas.

http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/the-end-of-the-soviet-union/the-end-of-the-soviet-union-texts/ukrainian-independence-declaration/
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:42 pm

tomcat wrote:
Questions surely need to be raised about Merkel (I would go as far as to question her allegiance to Germany) but before her there was Schröder who is the one who initiated the NS2.


NS2 was conceived in 2011. Merkel had been a chancellor since 2005.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:42 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:
keesje wrote:
IMO Merkel fully inderstood Putin & could talk sense into him, because of their shared past. Now there is distance.


It's the other way around. Putin understood/read Merkel perfectly, and lured Germany to become dependent on Russian gas and remain naively pacifistic.
Remember how hard Germany fought for that Nord Stream 2 pipeline despite all the resistance from the US and others?

Merkel was played like a fool by Putin all along, and now we see Putins long planned endgame unfold.

Fortunately Putin is heading a corrupt military which in the end will let him down, but the war in Ukraine is a big part of Merkels legacy.


Merkel will go down in history as one of the dullest and worst major political leaders of the century.


I don't think she will go down as one of the worst chancellors of the last few decades, far from it, but Germany's relationship with Russia under her tenure, especially after the events of 2014, will undoubtedly be a dark stain on her legacy. I hate to say this, but Trump was absolutely right to criticize the Germans over the Nord 2 pipeline.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:58 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
tomcat wrote:
Questions surely need to be raised about Merkel (I would go as far as to question her allegiance to Germany) but before her there was Schröder who is the one who initiated the NS2.


NS2 was conceived in 2011. Merkel had been a chancellor since 2005.


Fair enough, Schröder was rather involved in the launch of NS1 and has been the chairman of the shareholders' committee of Nord Stream AG in charge of NS1. This being said, it's Nord Stream AG which initiated the study of an expansion project which eventually became NS2. In any case, my point is that it wouldn't wise to only question Merkel's legacy especially in Germany where governments are made of a coalition of parties.
 
tomcat
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Sun Mar 27, 2022 11:10 pm

alberchico wrote:
I hate to say this, but Trump was absolutely right to criticize the Germans over the Nord 2 pipeline.


Rest assured that there were also vocal critics in Europe. I've just refreshed my mind about it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2#Opposition

There is no unified EU energy policy because EU member states want to keep their own energy agenda and dogmas (Germans are against nuclear power, French are happy with it and so on). Germany just played it solo for some romantic reasons or just because they thought they got the most competitive supply of nat gas thanks to NS1 and NS2. They saw nothing wrong about abandoning a diversified energy supply.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:28 am

I suspect a lot more weapons have been delivered than we know of through news and propaganda outlets. If a bunch more ships get sunk in the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea then the propaganda machine will need lubricant. They can hide the tanks lost and armored carriers destroyed for awhile but ships going down are a bit more naked to the eye and camera.
Last edited by aristoenigma on Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
aristoenigma
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:47 am

As for the comments by POTUS that voiced what everyone was thinking it was only a few days earlier that a Russian spokesperson re-threatened international nuclear conflagration if Poland/NATO sent any peacekeeping help into Western Ukraine. That is the height of stupid intimidation. I suspect that the NATO team response to a tactical nuke into Ukraine is fully gamed out and it won't be pretty for Russia. What else would anyone expect in response to such stupid threats.
 
rubberdogdo
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:08 am

Biden was absolutely correct calling for regime change in Russia. In fact , the UN , the Western media , the free democratic nations of the world , and everyone else needs to call for regime change. Tolerance of this evil , destructive and criminal behaviour only emboldens the next dictator and in effect gives the likes of Putin a free pass. The world needs to gang up on this creep , isolate him and reply to his bullying by threats of overwhelming destruction if he so much as hints at pressing “ the button. “
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:14 am

Indeed, what's the fuss about the remark by President Biden that Putin needs to go???

It's dead obvious Putin's role is finished on the international scene, ,isn't it?

Regardless the outcome of his war against Ukraine, there's just no way the Russian dictator can ever come back on the forefront at say any G8 meeting, or any other international format, to play any meaningful role there. Heck, he will mostly not be invited even or be completely shunned if he has to: how's that for retaking your rightful place in the world order as a global power, which is what Putin's ultimate goal is said to be.

For a country like Russia, a permanent UN security council member, it is basically a diplomatic game over if you're head of state is as toxic as Putin: comparable to Serbia when Slobodan Milošević was President. If Russia is ever to get from under the sanctions and to be reconsidered a partner for talks other than on an immediate end to the war in Ukraine, Putin will have to be out of power one way or another (resign, deposed, killed or died).
 
JJJ
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:54 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Indeed, what's the fuss about the remark by President Biden that Putin needs to go???

It's dead obvious Putin's role is finished on the international scene, ,isn't it?


Yes, and it's up to the Russians to kick him out.
 
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speedygonzales
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:00 am

bikerthai wrote:
OK, I finally saw a video of supposedly Ukrainians abusing prisoners and shooting them in the legs?

The one thing that struck me was the age of the prisoners. They have long beards and shaved heads. Doesn't look like any the typical Russian conscripts nor a professional soldiers that we saw on the "Russian soldier confession" video.

bt

Someone has pointed out all the ways that makes this video look fake, like how the bandages on the supposed gunshot wound are completely clean:
https://twitter.com/Ars_Faivre/status/1 ... 6088636423
 
JJJ
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:25 am

speedygonzales wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
OK, I finally saw a video of supposedly Ukrainians abusing prisoners and shooting them in the legs?

The one thing that struck me was the age of the prisoners. They have long beards and shaved heads. Doesn't look like any the typical Russian conscripts nor a professional soldiers that we saw on the "Russian soldier confession" video.

bt

Someone has pointed out all the ways that makes this video look fake, like how the bandages on the supposed gunshot wound are completely clean:
https://twitter.com/Ars_Faivre/status/1 ... 6088636423


Plus it's pretty well known that Ukraine was quite a lot of undesirables with guns (like the Azov battalion) it's what happens when you fully mobilise and doesn't detract a thing from Ukraine defending themselves against aggression by a major power.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:36 am

marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.

Big deal. As long as majority of Russians conflate Putin with Russia and vice versa, there's not much chqnce for progress.
Besides... doesn't Putin ride a bear half-naked, dive, fly jets, jump, get bad botoxes, bonks hot gymnasts... I bet he can take a few bad words too, even without Macron immediately running to his defense.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:43 am

cpd wrote:
I suppose you are across everything that is being delivered, much more than we all are?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukr ... -zelensky/

A senior administration official also said the U.S. is "consulting" with allies to provide anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, something Zelenskyy requested in his remarks.


Doesn't sound like these missile systems are going to be delivered to Ukraine any time soon. I would love to see evidence to the contrary, though, so please share if you have.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:44 am

JJJ wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Indeed, what's the fuss about the remark by President Biden that Putin needs to go???

It's dead obvious Putin's role is finished on the international scene, ,isn't it?


Yes, and it's up to the Russians to kick him out.


Those that try have a nasty habit of ending up dead.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:48 am

marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.
But if you don’t want such a proces -which I can understand from a US point of view- this wasn’t an accident.


I’m not sure you understand it. Russia has repeatedly threatened nuclear war and you’re bothered about something Biden said. You need to get some perspective.
 
JJJ
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:58 am

scbriml wrote:
JJJ wrote:
sabenapilot wrote:
Indeed, what's the fuss about the remark by President Biden that Putin needs to go???

It's dead obvious Putin's role is finished on the international scene, ,isn't it?


Yes, and it's up to the Russians to kick him out.


Those that try have a nasty habit of ending up dead.


Strongmen hold on power is based on, well, being perceived as strong.

I'm pretty sure things are moving below the surface, and I'm even more sure there are already mechanisms in place for them to get help.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:36 am

I guess with Macron it's a lot to do for domestic consumption along the lines of 'I tried every diplomatic avenue'. He does have elections coming up soon.

But anything that comes from the russian regime can't be trusted:

- Little green men in Crimea "Not russian soldier"
- We'll pull out if Belarus when the exercises are over
- We've got no intention of invading the Ukraine
- Our soldiers aren't in the Ukraine
etc etc.

As nothing they say can be trusted, I don't see how they would adhere to any (peace) agreement that Macron is probably asking them for.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:32 pm

AeroVega wrote:
Doesn't sound like these missile systems are going to be delivered to Ukraine any time soon. I would love to see evidence to the contrary, though, so please share if you have.


Maybe we should step back and think this through a bit.

The US has promised to provide arms. It has provided most of the arm originally promised.

The first batch are arms that the Ukrainian already knows how to use.

The US promised more arms. And due to increased attacks on western Ukraine, it is no wonder we do not hear much about these shipments.

The second batch include arms that Ukraine have not used before but required only little amount training: the switch blade drones.

My bet is those drones are already in country. We will probably not know until videos of them in action are published because it is of operational advantage to not let the enemy known where they are being used.

That brings up the next set of hardware. . . Those that require lots more training to use: Patriot batteries, US tanks and Armored Vehicles, Shore defense missiles.

Of these, I would suspect the tanks will be the next easiest to learn.

So questions: anyone knows how much time it takes to train for the M-1 tanks, MRLS , Patriot Air defense, the Harpoons ground base missiles?

I would think the US would supply western made artillery, including MRLS before Harpoons.

My other bet is we would not know if the US will be sending these systems until they would have had Ukrainian crew secretly already trained and ready to go.

bt
 
Virtual737
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:20 pm

scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.
But if you don’t want such a proces -which I can understand from a US point of view- this wasn’t an accident.


I’m not sure you understand it. Russia has repeatedly threatened nuclear war and you’re bothered about something Biden said. You need to get some perspective.


I'm wondering if Biden had any schooling in Holland. I'm told that there it is the norm, even expected for you to speak your mind regardless of the wider effects.
 
Vintage
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:29 pm

bikerthai wrote:
AeroVega wrote:
Doesn't sound like these missile systems are going to be delivered to Ukraine any time soon. I would love to see evidence to the contrary, though, so please share if you have.


Maybe we should step back and think this through a bit.

The US has promised to provide arms. It has provided most of the arm originally promised.................................

The first batch are arms that the Ukrainian already knows how to use........................

I don't have the bills of lading, but I am sure that the US and other western nations have already shipped everything originally promised and lots lots more.
If you use a flight monitoring site to watch the Rzeszow Jasionka Airport, you will see multiple heavy transport aircraft arriving regularly all day every day, these aircraft are coming from a number of nations, adding a dozen or so harpoons to the mix of cargo would just be one more flight among many. From the amount of incoming traffic at Rzeszow Jasionka, it is obvious that a ground distribution network is functioning and this network must extend deep into Ukraine, to the front lines in fact. Note that these shipments are seen because these aircraft have their transponders turned on, I see it as a valid assumption that there are also traffic with transponders turned off. We know that there are blacked out aircraft because of all the tankers that are overhead (with transponders on).

Training for the use of an AD system or something like the harpoon can be accomplished in one day for the guy whose job it is to turn it on, designate the target and press the launch button. The maintenance guys do need significant training, especially the long term maintenance, but the weapons being sent into Ukraine are not going to be gathering any dust. Military systems are designed to be easy to use; remember that Buk system that was supposed to have been manned by irregulars to shoot down MH-17? Nobody doubted that it could have been operated by an amateur.

The commitment of the west can be seen in the sky along Ukraine's border. Right now as I write this, there are three ELINT aircraft doing racetrack patterns along the Ukraine border (one of them is from Luxembourg, and last night there was an ELINT aircraft from Sweden running circles along the Belarus border). Again, these are the aircraft with transponders turned on and logic dictates that there are others operating in the dark.

There has seldom ever been a fighting force as highly motivated and well supplied as the Ukrainians.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:43 pm

Vintage wrote:
Training for the use of an AD system or something like the harpoon can be accomplished in one day for the guy whose job it is to turn it on, designate the target and press the launch button.


Good to know. Although, I supposed the US would probably be more thorough on its training.

This bring is the other though. $1 billion is a lot of money. But in the grand scheme of things, it is not infinite.

You have to consider what is most important and needed immediately. How many NLAWs can be provided for a battery of Harpoons. How many SUVs can be bought to bring supplies to the front vs one M-1 tank? We talk earlier about Russian logistics issue. Good time to remember that Ukraine have logistics challenges themselves

Although, it seems they are doing rather well supplying their forces to the east

bt
 
marcelh
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:50 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.
But if you don’t want such a proces -which I can understand from a US point of view- this wasn’t an accident.


I’m not sure you understand it. Russia has repeatedly threatened nuclear war and you’re bothered about something Biden said. You need to get some perspective.


I'm wondering if Biden had any schooling in Holland. I'm told that there it is the norm, even expected for you to speak your mind regardless of the wider effects.

I’ll bite. :mrgreen: You can do better than that.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:57 pm

bikerthai wrote:
I would suspect the tanks will be the next easiest to learn.

I am not convinced tanks will be next.

The running joke at the moment is that the Ukrainian farmers association is the fifth largest tank operator in Europe. Ukraine has no shortage of tanks and APC’s due to Russian incompetence.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:05 pm

petertenthije wrote:
I am not convinced tanks will be next.

The running joke at the moment is that the Ukrainian farmers association is the fifth largest tank operator in Europe.


Or Russia is the second highest military exporter to Ukraine.

Pretty soon, you would wonder if Ukraine will need temporary bridging equipment to span the bridges where they have to blow up to stop Russian advances.

bt
 
JonesNL
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:22 pm

Mentioned in the reference thread, Russia visually confirmed vehicle losses tick the 2000 mark:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... pment.html

It is expected that the actual losses are much higher. There is a page where they specifically mention that TB2 actions have been kept secret: "In an effort to attract as little attention to its operations as possible, very little footage of TB2 strikes over Ukraine has been released. Therefore, the amount of equipment destroyed by TB2s is likely significantly higher than recorded here. "

The amount of losses in the amount of time is simply staggering...
 
11Bravo
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:38 pm

bikerthai wrote:
So questions: anyone knows how much time it takes to train for the M-1 tanks, MRLS , Patriot Air defense, the Harpoons ground base missiles?

bt


Months probably several (6-12). I think those advanced systems are probably off the table at this point. I think eventually Ukraine will be supplied with weapon systems like those, but not right now. To successfully operate these weapons you first need to establish at least a basic level of maintenance and logistic support or in very short order you will have a bunch of very expensive and utterly useless paperweights. The training alone would be epic. Lots of language specific documentation would be required. Who would do the training? Where would the training be conducted? You couldn't do that in Ukraine right now. Can you imagine Russia's reaction to a bunch of NATO "advisors" conducting that kind of activity in Ukraine? It's just too much to organize and implement short term.
 
Alfons
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:14 pm

marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.
But if you don’t want such a proces -which I can understand from a US point of view- this wasn’t an accident.


I think you don't. The moment Putin decided to attack Ukraine, and the moment he decided that his army should target civil people, he went deaf about what people say about him. He knew the world will hate him for what he's doing. And that's what is making him so extremely dangerous.

I'm happy that there is at least someone who publicly talks about Putin being a Monster. We already did this mistake in 1933 and 1939, thinking we should be "nice" so nothing will happen. I hate our (European) mentality in that.
 
AeroVega
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:34 pm

Alfons wrote:
I'm happy that there is at least someone who publicly talks about Putin being a Monster. We already did this mistake in 1933 and 1939, thinking we should be "nice" so nothing will happen. I hate our (European) mentality in that.


You should try to think more with your brain and less with your underbelly. Silently sending weapons to Ukraine = good. Needlessly provoking Putin so that he may decide to send a message by flattening Kiev = bad. I'm 100% sure that Zelensky was pulling his hair out after Biden's thoughtless remark.
 
marcelh
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:52 pm

Alfons wrote:
marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.
But if you don’t want such a proces -which I can understand from a US point of view- this wasn’t an accident.


I think you don't. The moment Putin decided to attack Ukraine, and the moment he decided that his army should target civil people, he went deaf about what people say about him. He knew the world will hate him for what he's doing. And that's what is making him so extremely dangerous.

I'm happy that there is at least someone who publicly talks about Putin being a Monster. We already did this mistake in 1933 and 1939, thinking we should be "nice" so nothing will happen. I hate our (European) mentality in that.


We know that Putin is a Monster for years (Grozny anyone?) and has already threatened the world with nukes back in 2014. We (the world) did nothing. Essentially, 1933 and 1939 has already been repeated multiple times in recent history and Biden his speech doesn’t change that or help Ukraine.
It isn’t about being “nice”, it’s about being smarter - not only short term but long term as well. Fueling Russia’s propaganda machine won’t help with an emotional outcry of the President of the USA.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:54 pm

Alfons wrote:
marcelh wrote:
You don’t understand it. There will be a Russia after Putin/this war and this kind of statements will be used for years to show “how bad the West/US/NATO” is and frustrate some kind of “normalization” proces.
But if you don’t want such a proces -which I can understand from a US point of view- this wasn’t an accident.


I think you don't. The moment Putin decided to attack Ukraine, and the moment he decided that his army should target civil people, he went deaf about what people say about him. He knew the world will hate him for what he's doing. And that's what is making him so extremely dangerous.

I'm happy that there is at least someone who publicly talks about Putin being a Monster. We already did this mistake in 1933 and 1939, thinking we should be "nice" so nothing will happen. I hate our (European) mentality in that.

The important part of the post is how Putin knowingly targeted civilians.

This is like the invasion of Finland, absolutely no thought on the optics.

To those who disagree:
I believe the threat was required to stop chemical weapons. How many must die for this megalomaniacs ambitions?

Evil must be stopped early.

Lightsaber
 
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PixelPilot
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:58 pm

AeroVega wrote:
Alfons wrote:
I'm happy that there is at least someone who publicly talks about Putin being a Monster. We already did this mistake in 1933 and 1939, thinking we should be "nice" so nothing will happen. I hate our (European) mentality in that.


You should try to think more with your brain and less with your underbelly. Silently sending weapons to Ukraine = good. Needlessly provoking Putin so that he may decide to send a message by flattening Kiev = bad. I'm 100% sure that Zelensky was pulling his hair out after Biden's thoughtless remark.


I fail to understand what means needlessly provoking somebody in a situation where he is bombing civilians.
By this statement he won already. Thank GOD for the Ukrainians who still got it in them to not back down.
And FYI The statement should be TRY IT one bit more and we will flatten you as it is clear at this point, this is the only language they would understand.

*****
EDIT
This one is interesting
Abramovich and Ukrainian negotiators suffer poisonings symptoms.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 45780.html
 
victrola
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Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:28 pm

They do not want to get arrested by the new sedition law in Russia.

bt[/quote]

Also known as the Vladimir :"Basil Fawlty" Putin "Don't mention the war" law.
 
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bikerthai
Posts: 5913
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:50 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
EDIT
This one is interesting
Abramovich and Ukrainian negotiators suffer poisonings symptoms.


And thus the start of chemical attack that we've been warned about.

And of course they will blame it on Biden's escalatory rhetoric.

bt
 
T4thH
Posts: 1700
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Russian Invasion of Ukraine - *Discussion* Thread

Mon Mar 28, 2022 5:00 pm

Welcome to Syria, the IS is back.....

ahhhh no, sorry, Ukraine of course.

The Technicals are back. High live the Toyota
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/tqc6vj/modified_pickup_trucks_by_the_lpr_location_unknown/
LPR separatist units, fighting on Russian site.

I have not expected that the Russian site is already so far down of the equipment storage.....

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