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NIKV69 wrote:Well Psaki said the attack was imminent 2 weeks ago so it makes sense.
NIKV69 wrote:Well Psaki said the attack was imminent 2 weeks ago so it makes sense.
Virtual737 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:Well Psaki said the attack was imminent 2 weeks ago so it makes sense.
If only we were still with the last administration where no mistakes were made and no lies were told eh.
FGITD wrote:Virtual737 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:Well Psaki said the attack was imminent 2 weeks ago so it makes sense.
If only we were still with the last administration where no mistakes were made and no lies were told eh.
I think it’s always worth reminding that the last commander in chief of the US military literally saluted a North Korean general…
SAS A340 wrote:Putin will not just take on Ukraine, when he is done, he will turn his Army against Belarus with he already has over 30 000 soldiers within. Lukashenko is too stupid to see this. That's my opinion.
Aesma wrote:Can we agree now that if Russia doesn't invade it will be a great Biden victory (and others) ? I'm sure if the opposite happens it will be put as his failure, so if not, it has to be a success.
jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
oschkosch wrote:Interesting movement over Ukraine and Crimea!Screenshot_20220212-163852_Flightradar24.jpg
Gesendet von meinem SM-G781B mit Tapatalk
readytotaxi wrote:jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
I don't see any real advantage in invading, it will be costly in terms of troops and support. Russia already has access to the Sea of Azov, minerals and wheat are biggest exports but I don't think Russia is that desperate for them. A lot of this is about Putins standing at home, he has invested a lot of personal Face in this.
If there can be a diplomatic solution it would have to be one that leaves him with the upper hand to show at home. The West has said that if he does cross the boarder sanctions would be unlike any that have gone before, he could retaliate with something like a no fly zone over Russia to western airlines, making some routes impractable. I'm sure that the real loser in this,if it happens, will be the Ukrainian public.
johns624 wrote:I found this article interesting. It appears that a large group of hardline retired Russian generals is against the invasion,
jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
readytotaxi wrote:I don't see any real advantage in invading, it will be costly in terms of troops and support. Russia already has access to the Sea of Azov, minerals and wheat are biggest exports but I don't think Russia is that desperate for them. A lot of this is about Putins standing at home, he has invested a lot of personal Face in this.
If there can be a diplomatic solution it would have to be one that leaves him with the upper hand to show at home. The West has said that if he does cross the boarder sanctions would be unlike any that have gone before, he could retaliate with something like a no fly zone over Russia to western airlines, making some routes impractable. I'm sure that the real loser in this,if it happens, will be the Ukrainian public.
SAS A340 wrote:Putin will not just take on Ukraine, when he is done, he will turn his Army against Belarus with he already has over 30 000 soldiers within. Lukashenko is too stupid to see this. That's my opinion.
alberchico wrote:I've noticed that the skies above Ukraine have gotten pretty quiet recently. Is this a recent development or something that has always happened ?
L410Turbolet wrote:I read an article earlier that was more in-depth but can't find it now. He wrote it as head of, and in the organization's official newsletter, which means it had others' backing.johns624 wrote:I found this article interesting. It appears that a large group of hardline retired Russian generals is against the invasion,
Where do you see "large group of hardline generals being against the invasion" mentioned or implied in the article?
LabQuest wrote:Yep. Germany wants to be the leader of Europe, but nary a peep.Is it me or has Germany really not been a part of this whole thing?
johns624 wrote:LabQuest wrote:Yep. Germany wants to be the leader of Europe, but nary a peep.Is it me or has Germany really not been a part of this whole thing?
LabQuest wrote:I don't know, ask the Germans around here. I have my suspicions but I'll keep them to myself.johns624 wrote:LabQuest wrote:Yep. Germany wants to be the leader of Europe, but nary a peep.Is it me or has Germany really not been a part of this whole thing?
Why is that?
apodino wrote:I have said this in other threads which seem to have been deleted but I will say it here. Why does this even matter to the US? The US Has absolutely no interest in Ukraine, and getting involved militarily is only going to get more troops killed with absolutely no benefit to the US. I don't like Putin, but this is not our issue, period. Of course, the corporate media who is in bed with the Military-Industrial complex would have you believe otherwise, so that the Warmongers can profit big time, Deficits and the lives of our Men and Women be damned.
readytotaxi wrote:jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
I don't see any real advantage in invading, it will be costly in terms of troops and support. Russia already has access to the Sea of Azov, minerals and wheat are biggest exports but I don't think Russia is that desperate for them. A lot of this is about Putins standing at home, he has invested a lot of personal Face in this.
If there can be a diplomatic solution it would have to be one that leaves him with the upper hand to show at home. The West has said that if he does cross the boarder sanctions would be unlike any that have gone before, he could retaliate with something like a no fly zone over Russia to western airlines, making some routes impractable. I'm sure that the real loser in this,if it happens, will be the Ukrainian public.
AeroVega wrote:I would not say it is Biden's victory as long as Ukraine is under threat of invasion. In fact, Biden's declaration not to fight Russia in Ukraine is almost an invitation for Putin to invade.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharysmi ... e-ukraine/
johns624 wrote:I found this article interesting. It appears that a large group of hardline retired Russian generals is against the invasion, and not for reasons of "softness". They are just saying that it's not worth the cost in lives, money and ostracization. A conspiracy theorist might think that this was publicized as a way for Putin to back down without personal disgrace. "I wanted to invade but my generals said it was a bad idea" sort of thing.
https://nypost.com/2022/02/07/ex-russia ... -invasion/
lightsaber wrote:Sadly, all Putin needs to do is sit on all exports/overflights until the West returns to the negotiating table.
Lightsaber
apodino wrote:I have said this in other threads which seem to have been deleted but I will say it here. Why does this even matter to the US? The US Has absolutely no interest in Ukraine, and getting involved militarily is only going to get more troops killed with absolutely no benefit to the US. I don't like Putin, but this is not our issue, period. Of course, the corporate media who is in bed with the Military-Industrial complex would have you believe otherwise, so that the Warmongers can profit big time, Deficits and the lives of our Men and Women be damned.
kelval wrote:readytotaxi wrote:jetwet1 wrote:The question is, why invade ? If Russia goes in they will be cut off economically from the west, or is Putin sure that will not happen ?
I don't see any real advantage in invading, it will be costly in terms of troops and support. Russia already has access to the Sea of Azov, minerals and wheat are biggest exports but I don't think Russia is that desperate for them. A lot of this is about Putins standing at home, he has invested a lot of personal Face in this.
If there can be a diplomatic solution it would have to be one that leaves him with the upper hand to show at home. The West has said that if he does cross the boarder sanctions would be unlike any that have gone before, he could retaliate with something like a no fly zone over Russia to western airlines, making some routes impractable. I'm sure that the real loser in this,if it happens, will be the Ukrainian public.
Well for example a kind of Blitzkrieg to negociate with a full hand.
Say invade all the east of Ukraine in 2 days, then go to peace negociations and retreat back after getting full possession to Donbass.
Russia apparently makes concessions to give back some parts of Ukraine, but in reality Ukraine gets back whatever Russia wants to leave.
johns624 wrote:L410Turbolet wrote:I read an article earlier that was more in-depth but can't find it now. He wrote it as head of, and in the organization's official newsletter, which means it had others' backing.johns624 wrote:I found this article interesting. It appears that a large group of hardline retired Russian generals is against the invasion,
Where do you see "large group of hardline generals being against the invasion" mentioned or implied in the article?
AeroVega wrote:Interestingly, China has not yet ordered it's citizens to leave Ukraine.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... st-updates
You would think Putin to give Xi a heads-up before invading Ukraine.
Let's see when the Chinese are ordered to leave. After the Olympics perhaps.
Francoflier wrote:There are a few differences between Ukraine and Taiwan, I believe. First, Taiwan has a first rate military and will fight. Second, Taiwan is much easier for its allies to get to. Third, the US and Japan don't seem to be as reluctant to appease China the way some EU countries seem to not want to upset Putin. The main problem, as Lightsaber's chart above shows, is that too many EU countries have continued with their "peace dividend" while Russia has rearmed. If the European NATO countries had even half the military that they did at the end of the Cold War, Russia wouldn't even be thinking about this. In between building oversize OPVs and "stabilization frigates" that have no role in a hot war and retiring all MBTs to having lousy operational rates for aircraft, there's not threat. People (countries) keep talking about using "soft power" to influence Russia. Sorry, soft power only works if you have hard power to back it up.People may be quick to dismiss Ukraine as strategically unimportant and 'not their problem' but the reason why this should matter to the US and the rest of the World is that China will be watching this annexation very closely...
If the West won't raise a finger for Ukraine - aside from giving a green card to Putin to continue westward towards Europe - there's little chance they'll do anything about Taiwan, or the rest of the South China sea, or the disputed territories at the border with India or Nepal, etc.
Hitler started in 1938 with small scale invasions of the Sudetenland, which had been tacitly endorsed at the Munich agreements by Western democracies jaded by WWI and resigned to let Germany have its 'small' territorial claims to avoid plunging Europe into another war... the rest is history.
Ukraine is not the endgame for Putin. It is an experiment for him and his allies in China to test the resolve and willingness of the other World powers to resort to violence to defend their values. Judging by public opinion against war in both the US and Europe, it seems they may well get their (satisfactory) answer.
johns624 wrote:Francoflier wrote:There are a few differences between Ukraine and Taiwan, I believe. First, Taiwan has a first rate military and will fight. Second, Taiwan is much easier for its allies to get to. Third, the US and Japan don't seem to be as reluctant to appease China the way some EU countries seem to not want to upset Putin. The main problem, as Lightsaber's chart above shows, is that too many EU countries have continued with their "peace dividend" while Russia has rearmed. If the European NATO countries had even half the military that they did at the end of the Cold War, Russia wouldn't even be thinking about this. In between building oversize OPVs and "stabilization frigates" that have no role in a hot war and retiring all MBTs to having lousy operational rates for aircraft, there's not threat. People (countries) keep talking about using "soft power" to influence Russia. Sorry, soft power only works if you have hard power to back it up.People may be quick to dismiss Ukraine as strategically unimportant and 'not their problem' but the reason why this should matter to the US and the rest of the World is that China will be watching this annexation very closely...
If the West won't raise a finger for Ukraine - aside from giving a green card to Putin to continue westward towards Europe - there's little chance they'll do anything about Taiwan, or the rest of the South China sea, or the disputed territories at the border with India or Nepal, etc.
Hitler started in 1938 with small scale invasions of the Sudetenland, which had been tacitly endorsed at the Munich agreements by Western democracies jaded by WWI and resigned to let Germany have its 'small' territorial claims to avoid plunging Europe into another war... the rest is history.
Ukraine is not the endgame for Putin. It is an experiment for him and his allies in China to test the resolve and willingness of the other World powers to resort to violence to defend their values. Judging by public opinion against war in both the US and Europe, it seems they may well get their (satisfactory) answer.
joeblow10 wrote:
As others have said, you can bet Xi is watching this closely. If Ukraine falls, who is going to stop the same from happening to Taiwan down the road.
Aaron747 wrote:
It also only works if the opposing power is led by someone rational and half-sane. Putin's messianic complex colors almost everything he does.