2 Mi-8, 1 Su-34, 1 Su-35 shot down OVER RUSSIA, so were Western weapons used or not ? https://twitter.com/search?q=Su-34

Aesma wrote:

2 Mi-8, 1 Su-34, 1 Su-35 shot down OVER RUSSIA, so were Western weapons used or not ? https://twitter.com/search?q=Su-34

Another source, https://eurasiantimes.com/breaking-4-ru ... shot-down/

it says that it happened in the Byransk region which is Russia. It is not known if aircraft were shot down by SAM or air-to-air missiles.

Since the downings happening in Russian airspace I think it was Russia being amateurs again and shooting down their own aircraft or possibly resistance/rebellion within the Russian forces.

Looks like the russians are changing sides!!

Possibly 4 friendly fire events.
“ Apocalyptic scenes were on display in Russia’s Bryansk region Saturday as four military aircraft were apparently blown out of the sky near the border, killing nearly a dozen service members.” The British Shadow rockets and the possible coming counteroffensive from UA is filling the diapers of those in the occupied territories???


https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-air-f ... 53925.html

Bryansk People's Republic, Belgorod People's Democratic Republic, the Duchy of Voronezh and Orel People's Republic shall be free from the paws of the occupation! Time to throw out the Muscovites and let these nations regain their freedom, from imperialist Muscovy's yoke! (pun intended).

Major losses reported among Russian military command near Bakhmut following Ukrainian strikes on headquarters in Klishchiivka:
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status ... 1678743554

bikerthai wrote :
m looking at it thru the prism of the Vietnam War

I look more in the present and there I see pictures of decomposing children, yes children's corpses !!! A picture absolutely shocked me of a 6 to 7 year old girl who is rotting (RIP little princess)

Ukrainian Marines debus from what look like the Bulldog APC's, part of the Challenger package, to carry out an assault on positions in Donetsk, near the airport, held since 2014.
Subtitles work but all you will get in this short but at times uncompromising video, are the lyrics to the soundtrack, still if held a real reverse for Russia morale and self esteem;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76xjFx4SIEc

More on that bad day for Russian aviation, those Mi-8's were EW variants, so a personnel loss as serious as the material;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ORTr2kRyw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvfHa ... vW7LQ_tti-

French SPG's Polish drones;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV3COr0Q0Z4

Storm Shadow brings all the occupied territory of Ukraine into strike range. Has the UK given any indication of how many it has shipped to Ukraine? One reason I ask is that if a large number are in Ukraine, the upcoming counter-offensive could start with considerable damage being done to Russian assets hitherto out of the reach of Ukrainian attack.

PS Would it not make sense to disable the Kerch bridge as one of the first actions in the counter-offensive, or, better still, immediately now that Ukraine has the means to do so??

art wrote:

PS Would it not make sense to disable the Kerch bridge as one of the first actions in the counter-offensive, or, better still, immediately now that Ukraine has the means to do so??

Yes, and hitting all those fuel depots and ammo dumps need to be done well before the offensive starts. One can be assured that at the start of any offensive the first things to be emptied out would be those depots and dumps as the use rate of materials would increase, a good tactic is to start hitting them while running small attacks to increase use as well as reveal previously unknown locations.

par13del wrote:

Yes, and hitting all those fuel depots and ammo dumps need to be done well before the offensive starts

Seems like they are concentrating on hitting command and control right now.

There is report of a second strike on Saturday. So perhaps Ukraine only have a couple of planes modified for Storm Shadow and they are attacking at a rate of 2 missiles per day.

I'm guessing the Ukrainians are waiting for the arrival of enough GLSBD missiles and launchers before they start counterattacking on the southern axis. The GLSBD will provide the "air support" without subjecting their planes to Russian SAMs.

bt

RU seems to finally notice the demographic crisis that their special military operation has only accelerated.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/russian- ... ad/2896085

SRQLOT wrote:

Looks like the russians are changing sides!!

Possibly 4 friendly fire events.
“ Apocalyptic scenes were on display in Russia’s Bryansk region Saturday as four military aircraft were apparently blown out of the sky near the border, killing nearly a dozen service members.”

Braybuddy wrote:

Major losses reported among Russian military command near Bakhmut following Ukrainian strikes on headquarters in Klishchiivka:
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status ... 1678743554

GDB wrote:

More on that bad day for Russian aviation, those Mi-8's were EW variants, so a personnel loss as serious as the material;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ORTr2kRyw

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcvfHa ... vW7LQ_tti-

Helicopter and fast jet pilots take years to train. EW operators take years to train. Colonels take decades to train.
These are indeed serious personnel losses.

bikerthai wrote:

par13del wrote:

Yes, and hitting all those fuel depots and ammo dumps need to be done well before the offensive starts

Seems like they are concentrating on hitting command and control right now.
bt

Based on how this "Special Operation" has been conducted I am not sure that is such a good idea, they might actually find someone competent among the replacements, better to deal with the devil you know versus......

par13del wrote:

bikerthai wrote:

par13del wrote:

Yes, and hitting all those fuel depots and ammo dumps need to be done well before the offensive starts

Seems like they are concentrating on hitting command and control right now.
bt

Based on how this "Special Operation" has been conducted I am not sure that is such a good idea, they might actually find someone competent among the replacements, better to deal with the devil you know versus......

If after over a year of the "special military operation" competent commanders haven't risen to the top, then it would be reasonable to assume they're in very short supply (aka out of stock).

scbriml wrote:

par13del wrote:

bikerthai wrote:

Seems like they are concentrating on hitting command and control right now.
bt

Based on how this "Special Operation" has been conducted I am not sure that is such a good idea, they might actually find someone competent among the replacements, better to deal with the devil you know versus......

If after over a year of the "special military operation" competent commanders haven't risen to the top, then it would be reasonable to assume they're in very short supply (aka out of stock).

The commanders rarely last long enough anyway, either incapacitated or fired.

Following-on from his leaving the Victory Parade in Moscow early, and reports of him visiting a medical centre in Minsk last night, Lukashenko has now missed an important state celebration:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65585951

This week’s Perun video is about France, not Ukraine, its military posture, how it got there, how it’s foreign policy, including nuclear and deployments influence in particular the ground forces hardware, (with donations to Ukraine coming in here, with the CAESAR and AMX-10RC), as well as how they do all this high end and expeditionary stuff while spending a similar amount to Germany.
One interesting take away which does have direct relevance to Ukraine and NATO, despite leaving the formal command structure in 1966, they remained always, through choice, bound by Article 5, like the rest of NATO.

The numbers of Storm Shadows sent will likely be and remain classified. A limitation is carrier aircraft with only the SU-27 and any remaining SU-24’s suitable.
Around 80-90 of the over 900 delivered have been used, most recently from RAF Typhoons from Cyprus against hardened ISIS bunkers.
As the upgrade program rolls along likely older stock rounds have been supplied, with more warhead, reduced fuel configuration.

If Lukashenko dies or is incapacitated it is questionable if his regime could hold together, potentially a bloody succession battle, certainly an energized opposition and no Russian troops or mercenaries to fly in and prop them up this time, he was looking wobbly last time he had to call Putin for help.
The trade off, all those Russian troops in Belarus, one of the jumping off points for the invasion, their presence still ties down some Ukrainians defending the border.
If the regime falters again, those troops will likely be used in an attempt to prop it up, thus no longer being a threat to Ukraine.
Without Lukashenko, an attempt to prop up a compliant regime with a Putin approved replacement could get messy and bloody.

About pilots I saw a DailyMail video (yeah I know not great source) saying Russia started the war with less than 100 operational fighter pilots. That's why we saw old fat guys flying, they're calling on retired pilots. And poor skills overall. Soon there will be nobody left to train new pilots.

GDB wrote:

This week’s Perun video is about France, not Ukraine, its military posture, how it got there, how it’s foreign policy, including nuclear and deployments influence in particular the ground forces hardware, (with donations to Ukraine coming in here, with the CAESAR and AMX-10RC), as well as how they do all this high end and expeditionary stuff while spending a similar amount to Germany.
One interesting take away which does have direct relevance to Ukraine and NATO, despite leaving the formal command structure in 1966, they remained always, through choice, bound by Article 5, like the rest of NATO.

The numbers of Storm Shadows sent will likely be and remain classified. A limitation is carrier aircraft with only the SU-27 and any remaining SU-24’s suitable.
Around 80-90 of the over 900 delivered have been used, most recently from RAF Typhoons from Cyprus against hardened ISIS bunkers.
As the upgrade program rolls along likely older stock rounds have been supplied, with more warhead, reduced fuel configuration.

If Lukashenko dies or is incapacitated it is questionable if his regime could hold together, potentially a bloody succession battle, certainly an energized opposition and no Russian troops or mercenaries to fly in and prop them up this time, he was looking wobbly last time he had to call Putin for help.
The trade off, all those Russian troops in Belarus, one of the jumping off points for the invasion, their presence still ties down some Ukrainians defending the border.
If the regime falters again, those troops will likely be used in an attempt to prop it up, thus no longer being a threat to Ukraine.
Without Lukashenko, an attempt to prop up a compliant regime with a Putin approved replacement could get messy and bloody.

Zelensky just landed in Paris.

I wonder if Macron will provide SCALP missiles. The problem is we don't have many, and also used some against ISIS. I hope production has been restarted.

Aesma wrote:

GDB wrote:

This week’s Perun video is about France, not Ukraine, its military posture, how it got there, how it’s foreign policy, including nuclear and deployments influence in particular the ground forces hardware, (with donations to Ukraine coming in here, with the CAESAR and AMX-10RC), as well as how they do all this high end and expeditionary stuff while spending a similar amount to Germany.
One interesting take away which does have direct relevance to Ukraine and NATO, despite leaving the formal command structure in 1966, they remained always, through choice, bound by Article 5, like the rest of NATO.

The numbers of Storm Shadows sent will likely be and remain classified. A limitation is carrier aircraft with only the SU-27 and any remaining SU-24’s suitable.
Around 80-90 of the over 900 delivered have been used, most recently from RAF Typhoons from Cyprus against hardened ISIS bunkers.
As the upgrade program rolls along likely older stock rounds have been supplied, with more warhead, reduced fuel configuration.

If Lukashenko dies or is incapacitated it is questionable if his regime could hold together, potentially a bloody succession battle, certainly an energized opposition and no Russian troops or mercenaries to fly in and prop them up this time, he was looking wobbly last time he had to call Putin for help.
The trade off, all those Russian troops in Belarus, one of the jumping off points for the invasion, their presence still ties down some Ukrainians defending the border.
If the regime falters again, those troops will likely be used in an attempt to prop it up, thus no longer being a threat to Ukraine.
Without Lukashenko, an attempt to prop up a compliant regime with a Putin approved replacement could get messy and bloody.

Zelensky just landed in Paris.

I wonder if Macron will provide SCALP missiles. The problem is we don't have many, and also used some against ISIS. I hope production has been restarted.

As the UK are updating theirs, given it was another successful Anglo-French cooperation, likely that France is also doing one, if anything, just for replacing older components.
France also has ship and I believe sub launched SCALPs, one reason the UK could so quickly convert air launched Brimstones to ground launched for Ukraine, with two months of the war starting, is that work had already been done on ship launched versions.
But not in RN service, yet anyway.
By that logic, with Naval Scalp already in service, scope for a similar program for Ukraine, one not tied to limited delivery aircraft?

Before landing in Paris;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... nskiy-says

A US serviceman, with infantry experience in the US Army and USMC, assesses the defence of a trench that I posted in reply 13261.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyBx4uWeItY

Says it all;
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYLLq6 ... 6vnBWLxsHC

Oh the irony;
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugkx4eV8V7 ... yOkNUqnSPZ

Despite the witty reference to more modern cinema, I had the 'Laurel and Hardy' theme in my head;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noNtuSbYuFI

Braybuddy wrote:

Following-on from his leaving the Victory Parade in Moscow early, and reports of him visiting a medical centre in Minsk last night, Lukashenko has now missed an important state celebration:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65585951

Speculation is rife, of Mr. Lukashenko's health problems stemming from getting a serving of "Kremlin special tea". Still, others point out, that Mr. Lukashenko is still too useful for Kremlin, and any Moscow-backed replacement would be too obvious a puppet -- both for international public, and for Belarus's internal consumption.

I'm not sure how accurate Warthog Defence is (they tend to be overly dramatic), but their latest report has an extraordinary outburst from Prigozhin, who calls the war "stupid" and Putin and the Kremlin (indirectly) fascist (go to 3:03:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DsSDog ... hogDefense

johns624 wrote:

GDB wrote:

This week’s Perun video is about France, not Ukraine, its military posture, how it got there, how it’s foreign policy, including nuclear and deployments influence in particular the ground forces hardware, (with donations to Ukraine coming in here, with the CAESAR and AMX-10RC), as well as how they do all this high end and expeditionary stuff while spending a similar amount to Germany.
One interesting take away which does have direct relevance to Ukraine and NATO, despite leaving the formal command structure in 1966, they remained always, through choice, bound by Article 5, like the rest of NATO.

It gave me new appreciation on how they do it all on the budget that they have. I went and watched the German video back-to-back with the French one. All I can say is the German one made me

You mean the post about Germany dated 10 months ago? https://youtu.be/8jDUVtUA7rg

In a televised interview today in England with Zelensky and UK PM Sunak, Zelensky spoke of the need of fighter jets. Sunak said that UK will train Ukrainians to become combat-ready pilots.

UK will send air defence missiles and long-range attack drones to Ukraine

https://www.bing.com/search?q=uk+missil ... 813e463726

According to the Twitter account Glasnost Gone, Ukraine's public broadcasting company is reporting explosions at the location of an airfield and military base in Crimea:
https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/status ... 8099878912

Braybuddy wrote:

According to the Twitter account Glasnost Gone, Ukraine's public broadcasting company is reporting explosions at the location of an airfield and military base in Crimea:
https://twitter.com/GlasnostGone/status ... 8099878912

Could be Storm Shadow again, couldn't it? On another UK forum I read that UK bought around 800 Storm Shadow, 400 of which are having/will have an MLU. With some having been used (eg in Syria), I wonder how many of the un-updated missiles will be made available to Ukraine. If 100 or 200 or more are available they could have a considerable effect on the not so special military operation, couldn't they?

art wrote:

Could be Storm Shadow again, couldn't it? On another UK forum I read that UK bought around 800 Storm Shadow, 400 of which are having/will have an MLU. With some having been used (eg in Syria), I wonder how many of the un-updated missiles will be made available to Ukraine. If 100 or 200 or more are available they could have a considerable effect on the not so special military operation, couldn't they?

The Ukrainians have attacked Sevastopol with drones, so Yevpatoriya would be within their range too.

Due to sanctions, Russian airlines are now skating on thin ice:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/ ... ekt-a81140

Braybuddy wrote:

Due to sanctions, Russian airlines are now skating on thin ice:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/05/ ... ekt-a81140

From the above link:

Russia's flagship airline Aeroflot has asked its employees to refrain from recording equipment defects on aircraft, leading to planes regularly flying with malfunctions, according to the investigative news outlet Proekt, citing current and former employees at the airline.

A former employee at Aeroflot explained that the policy, in force since last spring, was introduced "to prevent aircraft from being grounded due to a defect, which, according to regulations, prohibits the aircraft from flying until it is fixed.”

A technical specialist at Aeroflot corroborated this information while adding that the same unofficial practice is now followed by other airlines in order to keep aircraft in the sky.

I suppose that crashes will increase. How does the insurance work if aircraft known to be unserviceable crash?

art wrote:

I suppose that crashes will increase. How does the insurance work if aircraft known to be unserviceable crash?

I'm pretty sure no western insurance company would ever consider any insurance claim if the aircraft wasn't properly maintained. But you're talking about Russia, so I don't know how things work over there. I'd imagine that the government would step in: it is a "special operation" after all, so "special" fixes would be needed to keep the airlines flying.

Braybuddy wrote:

art wrote:

I suppose that crashes will increase. How does the insurance work if aircraft known to be unserviceable crash?

I'm pretty sure no western insurance company would ever consider any insurance claim if the aircraft wasn't properly maintained. But you're talking about Russia, so I don't know how things work over there. I'd imagine that the government would step in: it is a "special operation" after all, so "special" fixes would be needed to keep the airlines flying.

I would think that Russia would not find it impossible to offer insurance for aircraft - but getting paid on loss claims where the aircraft were flown in an unserviceable condition might not be easy to achieve. So I guess that the Russian government must be underwriting any insurance policies on aircraft.

johns624 wrote:

GDB wrote:

This week’s Perun video is about France, not Ukraine, its military posture, how it got there, how it’s foreign policy, including nuclear and deployments influence in particular the ground forces hardware, (with donations to Ukraine coming in here, with the CAESAR and AMX-10RC), as well as how they do all this high end and expeditionary stuff while spending a similar amount to Germany.
One interesting take away which does have direct relevance to Ukraine and NATO, despite leaving the formal command structure in 1966, they remained always, through choice, bound by Article 5, like the rest of NATO.

It gave me new appreciation on how they do it all on the budget that they have. I went and watched the German video back-to-back with the French one. All I can say is the German one made me

Since then, it looks like, as regards deliveries to Ukraine at least, a change of pace, more urgency. Certainly recent packages have reflected this;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aid-policy

Looks like a change of Defence Minister has been helpful.

As to the trip to the UK today, this idea of a 'Fighter Coalition', well as stated enough times, I agree with Justin Bronk of RUSI on the suitable type and a coalition, where the UK has for years operated some twin seat versions of it could be helpful, beyond initial training on Western trainers.
From post 13538, rather self indulgent quoting yourself but anyway;
If they had a dozen say Gripens it would be different, (if I hear perfect runway/heavy and specialized maintenance compared to the Swedish type reliant F-16 mentioned again in the media, well if Ukraine had a Storm Shadow for every time I read and heard it unchallenged by operational reality, they would have an inventory several times that of the RAF)

While the UK is been lauded for leading the way in class of weapon supplied again, with facilities to train on Gripens available, having been buying up weapons like stored M-109 SPG’s, I do wish that influence had also been used to secure those C model Gripens, get the Swedish to temporarily replace them with from storage A models, while upping the model E order to eventually replace those A’s and offer to pay to do this. Plus additional diplomatic pressure on the NATO member barring their entry. Though hopefully the Turkish electorate might help there soon too.

Klaus wrote:

hh65man wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Wow. There's being tone deaf and then there's this.

Thanks for the post, that is a bit tone deaf isn’t it. Is, was he from the former DDR?

No, he was from the west (Hannover) but has completely veered off any reasonable path and is now shunned by his own party (SPD).

Notably the only active german politicians at that russian reception were from the Linke (ex DDR SED) and from the AfD, so both left and right extremes in their usual form.

Meanwhile the german government has announced the biggest weapon supply package yet to Ukraine:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/may/13/russia-ukraine-war-live-russian-retreat-in-bakhmut-highlights-shortage-of-credible-combat-units-say-uk-officials

The German government will provide further military equipment worth €2.7bn (£2.4bn) to Ukraine in what would be the biggest Berlin has provided since Russia’s invasion. The package includes 20 Marder infantry fighting vehicles, 30 Leopard 1 tanks, 15 Gepard anti-aircraft tanks, 200 reconnaissance drones, four additional Iris-T anti-aircraft systems including ammunition, additional artillery ammunition and more than 200 armoured combat and logistics vehicles, according to Der Spiegel.

And the main opposition (Merkel's conservatives) are on board with that, too, so the vast majority of the political spectrum.

Especially the four IRIS-T will be very useful with the ex-soviet SAMs running low, and the other systems will obviously be welcome to boost capacities for the counter-offensive and its aftermath.

GDB wrote:

johns624 wrote:

GDB wrote:

This week’s Perun video is about France, not Ukraine, its military posture, how it got there, how it’s foreign policy, including nuclear and deployments influence in particular the ground forces hardware, (with donations to Ukraine coming in here, with the CAESAR and AMX-10RC), as well as how they do all this high end and expeditionary stuff while spending a similar amount to Germany.
One interesting take away which does have direct relevance to Ukraine and NATO, despite leaving the formal command structure in 1966, they remained always, through choice, bound by Article 5, like the rest of NATO.

It gave me new appreciation on how they do it all on the budget that they have. I went and watched the German video back-to-back with the French one. All I can say is the German one made me

Since then, it looks like, as regards deliveries to Ukraine at least, a change of pace, more urgency. Certainly recent packages have reflected this;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aid-policy

Looks like a change of Defence Minister has been helpful.

The media talking about the new German military aid NOW, just shows how useless they are. Worse the have forgotten the major part of the announcement!

The value of the new aid was already announced over a month ago. On 29. March 2023 Reuters posted:

Germany to send additional 12 billion euros in military support to Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ge ... 023-03-29/
Or the same source on Radio Free Europe
https://www.rferl.org/amp/germany-ukrai ... 40550.html

The aid package is divided in two trenches:

• 3.2 billion euros to be disbursed in 2023
• credit lines for the period between 2024 and 2032 amounting to some 8.8 billion euros

The second point showing rather clearly to me, that Germany will support Ukraine in the long run.
When Macron, Scholz and Draghi visited Kyiv together in June 22 they already told us so but somehow the media still pretends French and German support for Ukraine is lacklustre...

So in essence the Germans had to put some military material together on a list and announce it in order for most of the media to comment on it (just announcing the money till 2032 wasn't enough).

Best regards and hoping for a successful Ukrainian counterattack,
Jonas

A Ukrainian artist who paints in the Primitivist style, channels his work against an actual primitive culture;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... an-fascism

Remember the female Ukrainian Sniper, dubbed their 'Joan of Arc', who met her husband during breaks in fighting on the 'gram, fell pregnant? Here is an expanded and now updated account;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrr_Y-LflY4

Cyberpunk Ukrainians adapt an unhealthy product to aid the combat troops, as well as enabling some much more unhealthy effects on the invaders;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByhRDwoPHCw
(Or, Cyberpunk Ukrainians out-punk the punk-ass Russians).

A more conventional Ukrainian product for the military;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIMw53-MYZE&t=116s

https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine ... egion.html

GDB wrote:

As to the trip to the UK today, this idea of a 'Fighter Coalition', well as stated enough times, I agree with Justin Bronk of RUSI on the suitable type and a coalition, where the UK has for years operated some twin seat versions of it could be helpful, beyond initial training on Western trainers.
From post 13538, rather self indulgent quoting yourself but anyway;
If they had a dozen say Gripens it would be different, (if I hear perfect runway/heavy and specialized maintenance compared to the Swedish type reliant F-16 mentioned again in the media, well if Ukraine had a Storm Shadow for every time I read and heard it unchallenged by operational reality, they would have an inventory several times that of the RAF)

While the UK is been lauded for leading the way in class of weapon supplied again, with facilities to train on Gripens available, having been buying up weapons like stored M-109 SPG’s, I do wish that influence had also been used to secure those C model Gripens, get the Swedish to temporarily replace them with from storage A models, while upping the model E order to eventually replace those A’s and offer to pay to do this. Plus additional diplomatic pressure on the NATO member barring their entry. Though hopefully the Turkish electorate might help there soon too.

I, too, would like Ukraine to be supplied with Gripen C because it is widely agreed to be the western fighter best suited to Ukraine's current needs. Unfortunately it is very likely that Erdogan will win the second round of the Turkish presidential election, so Turkey would very likely still block Sweden joining NATO.

How long would it take for SAAB to bring stored Gripen A to working order including pilots? I think that much of this year's production of Gripen E is destined for Brazil but perhaps that could be changed, enabling some SwAF Gripen C to be transferred to Ukraine. In any event Brazil should start supplying Gripen E/F from the Embraer line in 2025.

I hope that UkAF personnel have been discreetly training on Gripen C, which would accelerate their introduction if Sweden can be induced to supply some.

During his interview on french TV right now, Macron has just promised more ammo, and is open to train Ukrainian pilots.
We're getting there.
Link (in french) of a news livefeed reporting this at 20:19 : https://www.lemonde.fr/international/li ... _3210.html

The Drive (warzone) say the training in the U.K. will be for F-16: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... ing-in-u-k

Oykie wrote:

The Drive (warzone) say the training in the U.K. will be for F-16: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... ing-in-u-k

From the article, Ukraine is saying the F-16 is their fighter of choice. So apparently they prefer the over all capability of the F16 vs the unimproved runway ability of the Gripen.


bt

Seeing how France only operates indigenous fighters (Mirage 2000, Rafale), it probably means that France is ready to give or sell some Mirage 2000. Add to that the fact that the Mirage 2000-5 that are nearing their end of life are pure interceptors (so no breaking of NATO's promise to not give away weapons that would hit Russian soil).... I don't doubt that UkrAF would be able to customize them if need be.

That, or we'd do only part of the training, so that the new pilots could migrate to the F-16?

While F-16 is probably Ukraine's prefered choice, I'm sure it would welcome any decent western fighter as of now.

bikerthai wrote:

Oykie wrote:

The Drive (warzone) say the training in the U.K. will be for F-16: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... ing-in-u-k

From the article, Ukraine is saying the F-16 is their fighter of choice. So apparently they prefer the over all capability of the F16 vs the unimproved runway ability of the Gripen.


bt

OK, F-16 it is. I don't now understand why UK is included in training when it has 0 F-16's.

art wrote:

bikerthai wrote:

Oykie wrote:

The Drive (warzone) say the training in the U.K. will be for F-16: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... ing-in-u-k

From the article, Ukraine is saying the F-16 is their fighter of choice. So apparently they prefer the over all capability of the F16 vs the unimproved runway ability of the Gripen.


bt

OK, F-16 it is. I don't now understand why UK is included in training when it has 0 F-16's.

If true, then it stops at the level of advanced training, on Hawks. How to 'fight' with Western aircraft.
They would need more systems like Patriot/SAMP-T to secure any suitable runways, as just an outer layer of AD.
See how just that creates resources creep?
Then you have an unfamiliar and complex aircraft not designed to be maintained by conscripts, while time and again the Ukrainians have shown how quick learners they are, this is again, resources and personnel creep.

Reporting from Bakhmut;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqlG9ne41bA

The footage from 3rd Brigade will be uploaded, likely in a series, like part 5 here of the battle of position Cyclops.
The Retreat Of The Enemy;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKOZPd7nUAs

Just a reminder that non-English links require a complete summary to be posted in English if a translated article isn't available. It is incumbent on the user posting the link to provide an accurate accounting of the contents rather than requiring other users to perform a translation in order to read it and participate. Posts with non-English links lacking a complete summary (not a copy/paste of an article translation) are subject to deletion.

✈️ atcsundevil

art wrote:

OK, F-16 it is. I don't now understand why UK is included in training when it has 0 F-16's.

I've read elsewhere that UK is only providing the venue. Lock Mart will be the sub-contractor for training. Could be just speculations.

Someone will need to provide the training aircrafts and simulators.



bt

art wrote:

bikerthai wrote:

Oykie wrote:

The Drive (warzone) say the training in the U.K. will be for F-16: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f ... ing-in-u-k

From the article, Ukraine is saying the F-16 is their fighter of choice. So apparently they prefer the over all capability of the F16 vs the unimproved runway ability of the Gripen.


bt

OK, F-16 it is. I don't now understand why UK is included in training when it has 0 F-16's.

Maybe UK geography / topography more closely matches that of Ukraine, which might help training. For sure they will have larger training areas then are available in the Netherlands or Belgium.

GDB wrote:

johns624 wrote:

It gave me new appreciation on how they do it all on the budget that they have. I went and watched the German video back-to-back with the French one. All I can say is the German one made me

Since then, it looks like, as regards deliveries to Ukraine at least, a change of pace, more urgency. Certainly recent packages have reflected this;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aid-policy

The change of defense minister improves the effectiveness of the post, but that is not why the policies changed.

The policies changed because:

a) Merkel's conservatives lost the 2021 election after 16 years in which they ran down all german infrastructure including the Bundeswehr, chasing their illusion of "lean government". They outsourced almost everything to industry and to consulting firms, reducing the Bundeswehr to an inreasingly empty shell.

b) Putin attacked Ukraine.

Even without Putin's attack the new "traffic light" coalition had already planned a major infrastructure overhaul including Bundeswehr reforms, the latter just went from afterthought to top billing after the russian invasion started, and Christine Lambrecht proved unable to meet the challenges this new situation posed, so she has now been replaced by Boris Pistorius who's looking a lot better in that position under current circumstances.

The reforms are now a top priority, effectively reversing the damage from the Merkel years and reforming and/or replacing structures from previous decades down to the re-armament after WWII and all that in parallel to a massive and abrupt change in energy supplies while at the same time restarting serious climate policies which Merkel had also neglected and even wound down.

The various Guardian commentators love their fixed idea of Germany having to be forced by external pressure to support Ukraine but that is an oversimplification bordering on ignorance of the more complex context and of what actually happened and what is happening so I can only warn against taking that ready-made narrative on board uncritically.

GDB wrote:

Cyberpunk Ukrainians adapt an unhealthy product to aid the combat troops, as well as enabling some much more unhealthy effects on the invaders;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByhRDwoPHCw
(Or, Cyberpunk Ukrainians out-punk the punk-ass Russians).

Absolutely laudable initiative and I hope his home-made power banks will see lots of use, but what he's doing there will substantially stunt the lifespan of those batteries and can become a fire hazard, too, because soldering multiple separately sourced battery cells in parallel and charging and discharging them that way means playing with fire - literally!

When some of the cells age and drop off the remaining cells will have the entire current forced into and out of them alone, and that can lead to cells failing faster and ultimately burning up, so I'd strongly recommend a rethink of the connection method and of the (dis)charging circuitry for longer lifespans and reduced fire hazards and in the mean time keeping a careful eye on those batteries while charging them and keeping the power draw from them relatively low, too!

Klaus wrote:

GDB wrote:

johns624 wrote:

It gave me new appreciation on how they do it all on the budget that they have. I went and watched the German video back-to-back with the French one. All I can say is the German one made me

Since then, it looks like, as regards deliveries to Ukraine at least, a change of pace, more urgency. Certainly recent packages have reflected this;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aid-policy

The change of defense minister improves the effectiveness of the post, but that is not why the policies changed.

The policies changed because:

a) Merkel's conservatives lost the 2021 election after 16 years in which they ran down all german infrastructure including the Bundeswehr, chasing their illusion of "lean government". They outsourced almost everything to industry and to consulting firms, reducing the Bundeswehr to an inreasingly empty shell.

b) Putin attacked Ukraine.

Even without Putin's attack the new "traffic light" coalition had already planned a major infrastructure overhaul including Bundeswehr reforms, the latter just went from afterthought to top billing after the russian invasion started, and Christine Lambrecht proved unable to meet the challenges this new situation posed, so she has now been replaced by Boris Pistorius who's looking a lot better in that position under current circumstances.

The reforms are now a top priority, effectively reversing the damage from the Merkel years and reforming and/or replacing structures from previous decades down to the re-armament after WWII and all that in parallel to a massive and abrupt change in energy supplies while at the same time restarting serious climate policies which Merkel had also neglected and even wound down.

The various Guardian commentators love their fixed idea of Germany having to be forced by external pressure to support Ukraine but that is an oversimplification bordering on ignorance of the more complex context and of what actually happened and what is happening so I can only warn against taking that ready-made narrative on board uncritically.

Those various commentators are in fact for the most part, including this one, highly experienced reporters on European affairs in a pro European newspaper, you will know how rare that is here, our tabloid media is really our Fox 'News'.
Not just the tabloids, the increasingly deranged Telegraph too, especially as their Brexit dream crumbles and is markedly unpopular now.

These long range attack drones mentioned, like Storm Shadow, mooted but not in name some months ago;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... -on-monday

What form they could take;
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/c ... or-ukraine

GDB wrote:

Those various commentators are in fact for the most part, including this one, highly experienced reporters on European affairs in a pro European newspaper, you will know how rare that is here, our tabloid media is really our Fox 'News'.

I'm not making that comparison, but commentators in the Guardian are not generally immune from groupthink for lack of more differentiated insight either – some opinion pieces there are oversimplified or skewed on other topics, too, and having some diversity of views is part of the point, which is why it's good to read especially those with a bit of critical distance, too.

Conclusions delivered by the more differentiated and more insight-driven pieces on this topic just don't fit the dominant narrative as easily.

Question is just what we as readers will be selecting for: Simplicity or consistency with our own pre-existing expectations is not always the best criterion...