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af773atmsp
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Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:08 pm

I'm curious if anyone here has invested in cryptocurrency and/or NFTs. I haven't myself, and I don't really have an interest in doing so. I know of some success stories buying and selling crypto, but it seems like the equivalent of buying a scratch-off ticket. I understand the concept of NFTs, but I don't understand why people continue to invest in them besides them becoming trendy with celebrities and companies hopping on the NFT bandwagon. Should we be bracing ourselves for a future in which cryptocurrency is as important to have as regular money, or do you think eventually the hype will somehow die out?
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:13 pm

The entire space is infested top to bottom with wash trading, front running, and outright fraud. Cryptocurrency is the place to put your money if you want an investment that combines the pathological greed of Wall Street, the environmental irresponsibility of big oil, and the messianic arrogance of Silicon Valley.

Personally, I recommend more ethically above-board businesses to support, such as heroin smuggling.
 
johns624
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:17 pm

I find it "interesting" that all the talk is about investing in crypto, not actually using it to buy stuff. I guess you have to keep having new people come in so older owners can make money. What does that sound like?
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Thu Feb 17, 2022 9:19 pm

johns624 wrote:
I find it "interesting" that all the talk is about investing in crypto, not actually using it to buy stuff. I guess you have to keep having new people come in so older owners can make money. What does that sound like?


You might be interested to know that there was a cryptocurrency startup literally named Ponzicoin. People invested in it!
 
LittleFokker
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:01 am

As seen on Twitter (original creator unknown): " Imagine being married but every guy in the world is allowed to have sex with your wife. Yet you have the marriage certificate...that's the NFT."
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:48 am

af773atmsp wrote:
I'm curious if anyone here has invested in cryptocurrency and/or NFTs. I haven't myself, and I don't really have an interest in doing so.

Keep it that way.

Now I don't know where you live. But in case you happen to live in a fairly developed country, then....:

Either you lose it all.

Or you will get "discovered", and authorities will harras you for the rest of your life as a potential drug smuggler. Drug smugglers are the ones who need crypto currencies.

Currencies, crypto or non-crypto are substitutes for values such as goods and services. They are guarantied by some body, typically a national bank governed by laws by a national government. Crypto currencies are guarantied by some software somewhere. You can trade currencies and that way lose and win. But since it is only a substitute for value, then someone less smart than you will always lose the same value as you win, and vise verse.

But losing and winning doesn't have to be the same currency. You may win (1) in crypto while some stupid idiot loses in US$, and vise verse (2). Version 1 we sometimes hear reported, version 2 not so much. Anyway, at the end of the day, gains and loses are always identical.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:13 pm

I'm in for a decade now. Not into NFTs which are clearly a scam. Even if I had made money out of them I would feel scummy. Same for most altcoins. Now, the biggest cryptos, that I would call "legitimate", all started as altcoins too (aside from BTC of course), so it's a bit like a cult becoming a religion... Scientology is somehow a legitimate religion in the US, so what do I know ?

If you have some money you can afford to lose, I would buy bitcoin. I know that at the current price, you might be thinking, well, I can only get 0.01 bitcoin, or 0.1, I would rather buy 10000 doge or whatever, but that's a big like buying a ton of copper instead of buying some ounces of gold. It's worse in fact because there is a printing press of doge, unlike bitcoin.
 
PhilBy
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:43 pm

Cryptocurrency is an ecological and ethical disaster .
Governments spend years developing methods of tracking money to reduce crime and untraceable cryptocurrency becomes the criminal weapon of choice.
A US company buys and reopens a coal-fired powerstation purely to power bitcoin mining.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ons-soared

For practical purposes does anyone know how many bitcoin I would need to buy a lunchtime sandwich? I suspect that the vendor would have difficulty with the maths!
 
M564038
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:53 pm

The fact is..
the world needs a cryptocurrency.
The current system is completely and utterly broken. The world also demands an untraceable currency. While tracing money, and the current system for surveilance and accoubtability in the money system is useful for the law and order of legitimate governments, it is even more useful for dictators and fundamentalist regimes.

Is bitcoin it? It is the leader of the pack. It is seen and treated as the gold standard everyone retorts to when the rest of the crypto-currencies fluctuate.
But as most people know, it is so energy intensive that it is in many ways impossible to defend, and that means it might be replaced somehow, sometime. This leaves it very high risk for the time being.

NFTs? Pwwwwwwthh lol!
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Fri Feb 18, 2022 5:03 pm

Bitcoin's value is as nakedly manipulated as the rest of them. It's also nowhere near untraceable:
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... ocurrency/
Notably, after these thieves made off with all that bitcoin, the exchange they stole it from invented Tether, nominally redeemable in USD, to make good the losses, then kept making more of it... and more of it... and more of it...
 
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c933103
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 7:22 pm

prebennorholm wrote:
af773atmsp wrote:
I'm curious if anyone here has invested in cryptocurrency and/or NFTs. I haven't myself, and I don't really have an interest in doing so.

Keep it that way.

Now I don't know where you live. But in case you happen to live in a fairly developed country, then....:

Either you lose it all.

Or you will get "discovered", and authorities will harras you for the rest of your life as a potential drug smuggler. Drug smugglers are the ones who need crypto currencies.

Currencies, crypto or non-crypto are substitutes for values such as goods and services. They are guarantied by some body, typically a national bank governed by laws by a national government. Crypto currencies are guarantied by some software somewhere. You can trade currencies and that way lose and win. But since it is only a substitute for value, then someone less smart than you will always lose the same value as you win, and vise verse.

But losing and winning doesn't have to be the same currency. You may win (1) in crypto while some stupid idiot loses in US$, and vise verse (2). Version 1 we sometimes hear reported, version 2 not so much. Anyway, at the end of the day, gains and loses are always identical.

Cryptocurrencies are useful tool for people in countries with limitation against international exchange/transfer of currency.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:11 pm

My mom called me a few months ago asking me to explain crypto to her because one of my sister's friends was invested in it. I tried to tell her it's not a safe investment and she should steer clear. I wouldn't be surprised if she still dumped money on it; after all, she bought the scam about the Iraqi dinar returning to its pre-1980s war value (at about $3/dinar), similar to how the Kuwaiti dinar recovered its value after the Gulf War, even after I tried to explain that that's not how currencies work.
 
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NIKV69
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:37 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Bitcoin's value is as nakedly manipulated as the rest of them. It's also nowhere near untraceable:
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... ocurrency/
Notably, after these thieves made off with all that bitcoin, the exchange they stole it from invented Tether, nominally redeemable in USD, to make good the losses, then kept making more of it... and more of it... and more of it...


Let us not forget that crypto was invented to be used for nefarious purposes. To circumvent certain laws that stopped banks from funding certain things like online gaming etc. It has nothing backing it and if if someone wanted to take your money and run they can and you can't do squat about it.
 
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c933103
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:55 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Bitcoin's value is as nakedly manipulated as the rest of them. It's also nowhere near untraceable:
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... ocurrency/
Notably, after these thieves made off with all that bitcoin, the exchange they stole it from invented Tether, nominally redeemable in USD, to make good the losses, then kept making more of it... and more of it... and more of it...


Let us not forget that crypto was invented to be used for nefarious purposes. To circumvent certain laws that stopped banks from funding certain things like online gaming etc. It has nothing backing it and if if someone wanted to take your money and run they can and you can't do squat about it.

And that's why people use it. From bypassing minor offenses like ban against porn or gambling, to more serious things governments ban like international transfer of money when the government banned one from doing so, to major crimes involving drug trafficking, money laundering, ransoms, scam, and terrorism funds.
And it is these activities that popped up crypto's market circulation.
If governments want people stop using crypto, then they have to stop blocking people from using their money on doing minor inconvenient things that incentiveize their use of non-official financial systen, thus drying up the system. But this is something politicians in various countries wouldn't be willing to do, so I cannot see their activity die down anytime soon.
Value of the currency itself mean relatively little in this process.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:35 pm

Boeing is worth less than zero, yet people are valuing it at 200 bucks a share or 121 billion.
Are Crypto's any worse than that?
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:41 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Boeing is worth less than zero, yet people are valuing it at 200 bucks a share or 121 billion.
Are Crypto's any worse than that?


Yes. At least you're not funding North Korea's nuclear program!
 
johns624
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:47 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Boeing is worth less than zero, yet people are valuing it at 200 bucks a share or 121 billion.
Are Crypto's any worse than that?
Why do you care how others value Boeing? Maybe they know something that you don't? Nobody is forcing you to invest. Isn't one thread about Boeing's finances enough?
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:45 am

A small group of cryptocurrency investors wanted to buy an island in Fiji and establish "Cryptoland", but it looks like those plans have been abandoned. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ls-through

OpenSea, an NFT marketplace, was hacked. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/20/nft-mar ... -hack.html

I've heard complaints about digital media being sold as NFTs on OpenSea without the permission of the original creator of that media.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:58 am

af773atmsp wrote:
I've heard complaints about digital media being sold as NFTs on OpenSea without the permission of the original creator of that media.


That's the thing... An NFT doesn't actually give its owner possession of the art it's linked to.
NFTs are basically only a link to a database which holds a copy of the file containing the 'art'. There's absolutely no legal nor technical basis for ownership of the picture's IP many buyers think they're actually purchasing. NFTs are this century's biggest scam (so far).

I feel sad for those who fell for it at first, not so much for those who still do now, given that the whole marketplace is essentially a giant celebrity-endorsed pump-and-dump/rug-pull idiot trap.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 1:37 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Bitcoin's value is as nakedly manipulated as the rest of them. It's also nowhere near untraceable:
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... ocurrency/
Notably, after these thieves made off with all that bitcoin, the exchange they stole it from invented Tether, nominally redeemable in USD, to make good the losses, then kept making more of it... and more of it... and more of it...


Let us not forget that crypto was invented to be used for nefarious purposes. To circumvent certain laws that stopped banks from funding certain things like online gaming etc. It has nothing backing it and if if someone wanted to take your money and run they can and you can't do squat about it.


It was invented by libertarians, not criminals.

And when you own crypto, meaning you own the keys, then nobody can take it from you. Unlike when you have money on a bank account that the government can seize at any moment. Or cash on you that the police can seize when they feel like it.
 
af773atmsp
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:19 pm

Aesma wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Bitcoin's value is as nakedly manipulated as the rest of them. It's also nowhere near untraceable:
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... ocurrency/
Notably, after these thieves made off with all that bitcoin, the exchange they stole it from invented Tether, nominally redeemable in USD, to make good the losses, then kept making more of it... and more of it... and more of it...


Let us not forget that crypto was invented to be used for nefarious purposes. To circumvent certain laws that stopped banks from funding certain things like online gaming etc. It has nothing backing it and if if someone wanted to take your money and run they can and you can't do squat about it.


It was invented by libertarians, not criminals.

And when you own crypto, meaning you own the keys, then nobody can take it from you. Unlike when you have money on a bank account that the government can seize at any moment. Or cash on you that the police can seize when they feel like it.


Hackers can steal crypto, and I'm sure governments are looking at ways to tax people with crypto.
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 4:30 pm

Aesma wrote:
It was invented by libertarians, not criminals.

And when you own crypto, meaning you own the keys, then nobody can take it from you. Unlike when you have money on a bank account that the government can seize at any moment. Or cash on you that the police can seize when they feel like it.


Sure they can. If I have a million dollars in my bank account, a robber can't take it simply by breaking into my house, but if I have a million dollars in bitcoin, a robber can get it pretty trivially by just beating the private key out of me. "Rubber-hose cryptography," they call it. Essentially, any security is only as good as the people using it. Bitcoin doesn't change that, as evidenced by the multitude of poorly-coded bitcoin exchanges draining peoples' wallets, and the constant trickle of coins stolen by what's essentially just phishing.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:05 pm

There is definitely a lot of misconceptions behind crypto. I'm by no means an expert and I'm not a "believer" in it (though I have bought some and am up a few thousand dollars).

Right now it's mostly used for illicit activities or buying and trading to make a quick buck. I think the real test will be vendors supporting it. There has been more talk of it, and more support from Paypal and companies like that, but it's far from being very useful.

The swings, theoretically, will die down once it becomes more established. That's up for debate.

It being "hackable," hackable is such a vague term. Bitcoin is extremely secure. I believe it's based off SHA256, the encryption that most of the internet uses (again, I believe). I do know that SHA256 is, as far as everyone knows, uncrackable. That could be a thread in of itself, it's pretty fascinating. I have heard that the amount of energy it would take to "crack" SHA256 exceeds the energy in the entire universe. If you understood the numbers involved, that doesn't seem very far fetched.

If SHA256 could be hacked, it would be bad, BAD news for way more than just Bitcoin. The entire cryptographic security industry would be in turmoil. And any crypto wallet could be drained at will... You just don't see that now. "Hacking" crypto involves social engineering, keyloggers, etc. That is NOT the fault of the cryptocurrency, it is a weakness of probably everything and anything invented.

As far as being untraceable, I want to say Monero (a very popular coin) does some sort of cryptographic magic so it truly is untraceable. With Bitcoin, all is public. Maybe it doesn't say who you are, but if you're using your wallet to buy things, it becomes easier to track down who is who.

Lastly, NFTs definitely have gotten a bad name and are admittedly involved in a ton of BS scams. But NFTs are an essential part of the "vision" of a crypto world. NFTs are just tokens that embody something. Not like a dollar bill, something you can have multiples of, but something like a deed to a house for a example.

Nowadays, it's stupid because a bunch are being sold to signify ownership of memes or something stupid. But what if you want to sell a house? Sell it without having to trust the other party? It goes like this: I have an NFT that is the deed to my house. Everyone can view it and see that I have ownership. I want $300,000 of coins for it. How can we have it where I get the money after giving the deed, and preventing shenanigans? (As in, I transfer the deed and they don't give me the money.) Or vice versa, I get the money and don't give the deed. Well, you set up a contract on the block chain. "If my wallet gets $X, this NFT (the deed) goes to the other party." Everyone can view it. If I don't get paid, the transaction doesn't happen. Once the transaction goes through, it automatically transfers ownership of the NFT to the other party. All public and viewable, no bank, no third party, no trust needed. I can't just hoard the NFT, it automatically transfers, ONLY when I get paid.

Feel free to poke holes, like I said, I'm not a believer in it all. It's just my understanding of it all. It is hard to understand and that leads to people spreading misinformation about "hackers" and "NFTs are inherently BS"
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:08 pm

So... just an escrow service?
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:12 pm

I'll also add that Bitcoin's value isn't based off nothing, it's not completely arbitrary. No, there is millions (billions?) of dollars of hardware all over the world dedicated to it. Sure it can be repurposed, but the infrastructure behind Bitcoin is massive and not insignificant... That helps give it value. Think about it from that angle.

And a huge weakenss is in its strength... If a single mother loses all her money in crypto form because the keys are stolen, she is screwed. Nothing can be done for reverse it unless you can somehow track down the person responsible (could be in Russia for all you know. And if they refused to give their key and it wasn't written down, there is no way of accessing his wallet, short of mind reading.) If there was a coin that could somehow undo stuff like that or has a central authority (like the US government) overseeing everything, that might patch up that weakness, but it would defeat the whole purpose of crypto for most people

I don't recommend investing in it unless you really read into it and actually understand that. After that, I still can't say I'd recommend it
 
johns624
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:16 pm

The emperor's new clothes...if you can't see them, you're stupid.
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:29 pm

The mining hardware has nothing to do with the price (in USD, or in Tether/stablecoin funny money) though. All the computing power thrown at the network just determines where the "new" bitcoins go and how much effort it takes to "make" them (since you're not really making anything; the total number of bitcoins is predetermined.) It's like saying the worth of the lottery is the paper that makes the tickets.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:44 pm

Newark727 wrote:
The mining hardware has nothing to do with the price (in USD, or in Tether/stablecoin funny money) though. All the computing power thrown at the network just determines where the "new" bitcoins go and how much effort it takes to "make" them (since you're not really making anything; the total number of bitcoins is predetermined.) It's like saying the worth of the lottery is the paper that makes the tickets.

No, not quite. I'm just saying a lot has been devoted to it, that gives it some sort of value and legitimacy. The infrastructure of it. It's not like another Bitcoin can just spring up overnight and be anywhere near as established (something I hear argued a lot.)

I'm not saying that "add up the cost of all that hardware and divide by the amount of Bitcoin = the price of Bitcoin"

Edit: maybe value isn't the right word. I'm saying that all the infrastructure lends it more legitimacy which can help in justifying value. There is probably a much eloquent way of explaining it
 
Kilopond
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:26 pm

By the way, the expression "mining coins" is just moronic: you can MINE ores or precious metals. Then you may MINT coins from them. Man-made coins cannot be excavated from mines as a first step action.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:14 pm

Edit: sorry for these long posts. I find this all very very interesting.

Tl;Dr: you need to guess (yes, guess) trillions of times to beat everyone else and mine bitcoins, which requires a lot of energy

Kilopond wrote:
By the way, the expression "mining coins" is just moronic: you can MINE ores or precious metals. Then you may MINT coins from them. Man-made coins cannot be excavated from mines as a first step action.

It's really it's own thing, but in a way it's kind of like mining.

Again, this is my understanding of it, I am simplifying things and could be wrong on some of the details.

The miners are there to verify transactions on the block chain. They're an essential part of any block chain, so they get a financial incentive in the form of mined coins.

It is "proof of work", and many are competing for the mined coins. How do you prove you did a lot of work?

SHA256 involves putting an input in and getting a hash output. It's a string of digits (usually in hex, 0-9 a-f, but it can be expressed in binary in 0s and 1s). It is essentially random.

"Airliners.net" gives a hash of 90fbc470e83fd3c0505cd12301aa7d7329991bef9959d7b145f4778e6c23f30a
while "airliners.net" (no capital A) gives f500d15fa11cdb6a9b9fe2e9f073576a723fe3928d2499d042f8b24e9d5de946

Such a small change gives a completely different hash. There is no way to predict the hash, no way to go back. Play around with it:

https://emn178.github.io/online-tools/sha256.html

You can't look at a hash of ca63aaef7306c06ae6d550ff365702deb195769065632fa9f7d1029718a3b44f and know what I used as the input. Because I made the input so long and random, not even the NSA can solve that hash. No exaggeration. If there was a way of reversing it, it would break so much cyber security we use. There is also no way of saying "I want to make a hash that begins with four zeros". Impossible. You literally have to brute force the algorithm until you coincidentally get one. That is the key behind proof of work.

All these hashes I've shown can be in binary, 0s and 1s. It's the same value as these hashes, just in binary (and thus, longer.) I want to say the string is actually 256 0s and 1s.

Who gets to mine the coins? The one that gets the most leading 0s. Guessing a hash that has three leading 0s is easy enough (one in eight odds). Guessing 10 leading 0s is one in 2^10, so 1:1024. Hard enough for a person (it would take you a out 1024 different tries), but trivial for a computer. 30 leading 0s? Ok that takes longer. 40?

You get to the point where you need to do billions of computations a second. Eventually, you'll stumble upon an input that gives you 30 or whatever leading 0s. How many leading 0s are required? The algorithm decides. If there is a ton of competition and 5 machines get 30 leading 0s, then it may raise it to 32 leading 0s. That may sound easy, but 30 leading 0s is super crazy hard, 32 is 4 times as unlikely. It adjusts so only one is getting the required 0s. If no one is getting it, it'll make it easier, 29 leading 0s. Adjust as needed.

That's proof of work. Theoretically, a random noob with a miner installed could beat everyone else. That's extremely unlikely. Odds are, you'll need trillions of tries to beat out everyone else. All of these trillions of computations is what is causing so much energy/CO2 to be expended.

One more thing, 2^256 is monstrously huge. 115,792,089,237,316,195,423,570,985,008,687,907,853,269,984,665,640,564,039,457,584,007,913,129,639,936. About 10^77. And a random Google search says the number of atoms in the observable universe is about 10^78 to 10^82.

That's why I was saying SHA256 and Bitcoin is unhackable. Not technically impossible, but essentially. Unless we discover a weakness in the hashing function like we discovered with MD5
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:08 am

The technical side of crypto is fascinating and so are its potential uses.

As far as currency however, I just don't see it.
The proof of work concept makes it quite cumbersome for mundane transactions. I just can't imagine how that would translate to buying a pack of gum in a convenience store as I am able to do instantly nowadays using various convenient electronic means put at my disposal by my bank.
If you scale up the blockchain technology to using it as a currency where any single individual may do dozens of small transactions any given day (let alone large scale organizations which may do thousands) at what point does that chain become so ridiculously large that it becomes unmanageable? If I'm not mistaken, a transaction in any crytpo'currency' already takes a long while (minutes, hours?) and generates non-negligible 'gas fees'.
The amount of computing power required to run current blockchains, which account for a tiny fraction of overall global financial transactions, is already enough to consume the amount of power of a small nation and generate insane amounts of CO2. How does that scale up?

At what point does 'decentralizing' just becomes 'centralizing in the hands of someone else'? The lack of any regulation also means that there is nothing to prevent control of the blockchain to become consolidated in the hands of a few entities, as seems to be the case already?

As for the argument of security or the dubious claim that banks and governments can just help themselves to your bank account while they couldn't with crypto, I find it slightly ridiculous.
The banking system as a whole works because it is regulated, not in spite of it. Regulators and governments of functional, non-dystopian nations do not and cannot just do as they please with people's money. There are laws. And if they did, they would discredit the whole system so quickly that it would simply collapse.
No government will just seize funds from individuals or companies without proper justification and legal backing lest they risk jeopardizing their entire financial system by introducing complete lack of confidence to its users.
On the other hand, I seem to hear about lots of honest people being hacked or losing their password/wallets and therefore their money with crypto.

Finally, if cryptocurrencies are to be used as actual currencies, what mechanism would ensure a level of stability provided by current government-endorsed fiat currencies?
The greatest irony about cryptocurrencies is that they're only talked about as an investment tool, not as actual currencies.

The more I look at it, the more crypto looks like either a fancy way of gambling or a way for those who would rather not be scrutinized by governments and laws to move money around...
 
Newark727
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Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:27 am

That's another thing... you shouldn't need Super Bowl commercials to get people to use, well, money.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 15785
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:09 am

gas fees are an ethereum thing, for most cryptos it's just fees (mining fees).

And yes many cryptos have a scaling issue, and proof of work isn't a long term thing. ethereum is moving to proof of stake. Verifying a transaction, even with a big blockchain, isn't that problematic or energy consuming, it's mining that is the main energy sucker.

However making popular cryptos evolve is relatively difficult, and for Bitcoin it's very difficult. By design. I think something disincentivizing brute power should be done, for example mining could be done by low power devices, and every device has an equal chance of winning. Find a way to make mining farms impractical. For example 2 or more devices using the same public IP address would count as only one device. So a farm would need hundreds of public IP addresses.
 
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DeltaMD90
Posts: 9080
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:05 pm

The argument is that Bitcoin is more like gold than currency. You use it as a store of value, not to go to the store and buy something with a flake of your gold bar. You'd convert some of your Bitcoin to another form (I think Bitcoin Cash may be quicker?) to buy things.

That's the theory, I'm not very convinced myself so don't shoot the messenger.

Bitcoin has disadvantages that Ethereum and Monero try and address. But Bitcoin is so dominant, I don't see it going anywhere soon. Even if Ethereum and Monero increase in popularity and versatility, I could see Bitcoin being a store of value like I mentioned before... So much time, money, and energy has been invested. Someone thinking it's BS is not going to erase all that.

And again, while it is heavily used for illicit activities, there is at least a vision for a fully decentralized crypto world. Very libertarian, but it's not completely fantasy (I see it growing in prominence but never overtaking fiat).

Regarding the growing size of Bitcoin's block chain, it's an issue, but I believe the size of it seems to be scaling ok with technological increases. As pointed out, it's the mining and not the size of the block chain causing this energy.

And lastly, regarding us delegating the centralization to someone else, no, it's a strength of Bitcoin that it's decentralized. You have thousands or more untrusting entities all checking the block chain. If one or even dozens insert an incorrect transaction, it would not be accepted. It's possible to take control if you have more than half (50 plus 1 attack) but because of the size of Bitcoin, that's completely unfeasible.

The technology is very interesting and has a lot of application outside of cryptocurrency, a lot of companies are exploring and implementing block chain technology
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4818
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency and NFTs

Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:06 pm

All you need to know about cryptocurrencies and NFTs right here. It’s 2.5 hours long but it breaks it all down brutally and begins with the best condensed summary of the 2008 financial crisis. It’s long and probably best to break it up into multiple viewings but I highly recommend giving it a watch.

https://youtu.be/YQ_xWvX1n9g

Newark727 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
I find it "interesting" that all the talk is about investing in crypto, not actually using it to buy stuff. I guess you have to keep having new people come in so older owners can make money. What does that sound like?


You might be interested to know that there was a cryptocurrency startup literally named Ponzicoin. People invested in it!


These exist in a sh*t-coin “casino” where dozens of these are launched a day. Most people don’t invest in them because they don’t know how. They aren’t listed on major exchanges where you can just deposit money and start buying. It’s a more complex process using a decentralized exchange. People who “invest” in them are just trying to get in before the pump and out before the dump (they all get at least one pump) and play the game knowing it could be a scam or a rug pull. The name sounding like a scam is the point. It’s all a joke.

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