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marcelh
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:01 am

Sprint race was entertaining! First both Ferraris fighting for 2nd place and allowing VER to take a comfortable 2,5 second lead.
Also in the midfield HAM with MSC with some very close racing. PER managed to take P5 for the race.
MAG P6 and MSC P8, great performance by Haas
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 10, 2022 10:36 am

marcelh wrote:
Sprint race was entertaining! First both Ferraris fighting for 2nd place and allowing VER to take a comfortable 2,5 second lead.
Also in the midfield HAM with MSC with some very close racing. PER managed to take P5 for the race.
MAG P6 and MSC P8, great performance by Haas


True indeed.

Just wondering about Vettel. Pace-wise all good, race craft doubtful. He is simply doing too many mistakes.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:18 pm

The race itself was also interesting. It is good for the competition that Leclerc won and het was the best this race.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:20 pm

So another Austrian Grand Prix where a Red Bull got punted by a Mercedes at turn 4!

Image

Also Ferrari finally got their strategy right, but it seems they can't get the reliability in check with Sainz's PU exploding.
 
Alias1024
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:57 pm

Haas seems to have figured some things out with another solid weekend for them. The car doesn’t quite have the pace to keep up with the top three constructors, but they’re right in it with McLaren and Alpine. Schumacher and Magnussen both driving well at the moment too.

Good to see after a frustrating beginning to this season.
 
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Aesma
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 1:36 am

I don't really get this turn 4 thing. The argument seem to be, as Vettel stated, I get my nose in front, I'm entitled to the corner. So basically, no need to complete a pass, just put your nose in front there, then the other driver has to brake in a very fast corner, and let you through ?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 6:01 am

Aesma wrote:
I don't really get this turn 4 thing. The argument seem to be, as Vettel stated, I get my nose in front, I'm entitled to the corner. So basically, no need to complete a pass, just put your nose in front there, then the other driver has to brake in a very fast corner, and let you through ?


No. The argument is, if you have a car overtaking you, then you must give them room to complete said pass. By that, Gasly should have taken a tighter line and not drift wide at the exit.

Unlike in Silverstone, where Perez, Leclerc & Hamilton were battling all over the place with no problems thanks to the circuit not having sausage kerbs and gravel traps, in Austria the moment you push a car off the circuit, the other driver will be unduly disadvantaged. That's why Russell & Gasly got penalties for their turn 4 incidents with Perez & Vettel, and why Albon got his penalty for his incident with Norris at turn 1.
 
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Aesma
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 10:55 am

Maybe you just can't overtake there unless the other driver lets you pass ?

With these decisions it's almost an invitation do send your opponent in the gravel trap, you only lose 5s while the other is out of contention...
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:24 am

Aesma wrote:
Maybe you just can't overtake there unless the other driver lets you pass ?

With these decisions it's almost an invitation do send your opponent in the gravel trap, you only lose 5s while the other is out of contention...


My take as well. Five seconds time penalty is a very rewarding „penalty“ to receive, if you can push a similarly paced competitor into the gravel and out of contention.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 12:24 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Maybe you just can't overtake there unless the other driver lets you pass ?

With these decisions it's almost an invitation do send your opponent in the gravel trap, you only lose 5s while the other is out of contention...


My take as well. Five seconds time penalty is a very rewarding „penalty“ to receive, if you can push a similarly paced competitor into the gravel and out of contention.


Russell had the inside and had nowhere to go because he is under maximum braking. What lies on the other side of the track should not dictate what penalty is given.

He didn't drive Perez off the track or do anything overly aggressive. 5 seconds is appropriate for what was very much a racing incident

I'll give an example of something that wasn't penalized but should have been.

Last year in Brazil when Max ran Lewis wide to an asphalt runoff. That was far more aggressive but because of there was no penalty it let to the clown show that was the 2021 Saudi Arabia GP.
 
GDB
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 2:45 pm

Not about egos and things that go 'vroom', however very F1 related, toxic old sod and very recent Putin backer ('I would take a bullet for him'), as well as someone who spoke somewhat warmly of Hitler a few years ago, is having his collar felt;
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... d-hmrc-cps
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 11, 2022 11:31 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Russell had the inside and had nowhere to go because he is under maximum braking. What lies on the other side of the track should not dictate what penalty is given.


Actually it should.

In a court of law you have differing punishments for different levels of the same crime, for example manslaughter vs murder. So why not F1 racing? Why not give the stewards discretion for punishment for minor infringements, but if the infringement caused a competitor major damage to the point of retirement then more a stringent penalty should apply.

For example, the incident at the 2021 Brazilian GP. Neither Max nor Lewis were harmed (especially Lewis), so no penalty should apply. Similarly, the Perez-Leclerc-Hamilton saga at the 2022 British Grand Prix, no penalties should apply (especially since it gave us a humdinger of a race). However, George Russell's action on Perez should be penalized since it took a large chunk of Checo's car that he was unable to be competitive.

It's simple really. I honestly don't get the whole "don't look at the outcome but only look at the act" nonsense being bandied out whenever it comes to penalties in racing. How is that justice?
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:42 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Russell had the inside and had nowhere to go because he is under maximum braking. What lies on the other side of the track should not dictate what penalty is given.


Actually it should.

In a court of law you have differing punishments for different levels of the same crime, for example manslaughter vs murder. So why not F1 racing? Why not give the stewards discretion for punishment for minor infringements, but if the infringement caused a competitor major damage to the point of retirement then more a stringent penalty should apply.

For example, the incident at the 2021 Brazilian GP. Neither Max nor Lewis were harmed (especially Lewis), so no penalty should apply. Similarly, the Perez-Leclerc-Hamilton saga at the 2022 British Grand Prix, no penalties should apply (especially since it gave us a humdinger of a race). However, George Russell's action on Perez should be penalized since it took a large chunk of Checo's car that he was unable to be competitive.

It's simple really. I honestly don't get the whole "don't look at the outcome but only look at the act" nonsense being bandied out whenever it comes to penalties in racing. How is that justice?


Didn't find time yesterday to reply, but you spared me the work with your excellent post. I am fully with you. All the more I can understand the frustration of Seb and any of the experienced drivers, really, when it comes to stewarding.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:46 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Maybe you just can't overtake there unless the other driver lets you pass ?

With these decisions it's almost an invitation do send your opponent in the gravel trap, you only lose 5s while the other is out of contention...


My take as well. Five seconds time penalty is a very rewarding „penalty“ to receive, if you can push a similarly paced competitor into the gravel and out of contention.


Russell had the inside and had nowhere to go because he is under maximum braking. What lies on the other side of the track should not dictate what penalty is given.

He didn't drive Perez off the track or do anything overly aggressive. 5 seconds is appropriate for what was very much a racing incident

[...]


Well, he literally drove Perez of the track. Not that I feel Russell was particularly at fault in this specific circumstance as Sergio should have taken some avoiding action. There was plenty space to the left. I was surprised to see George being penalized for that and I was surprised Sergio is making the same mistake ruining his Austria GP two years in a row.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:44 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Russell had the inside and had nowhere to go because he is under maximum braking. What lies on the other side of the track should not dictate what penalty is given.


Actually it should.

In a court of law you have differing punishments for different levels of the same crime, for example manslaughter vs murder. So why not F1 racing? Why not give the stewards discretion for punishment for minor infringements, but if the infringement caused a competitor major damage to the point of retirement then more a stringent penalty should apply.

For example, the incident at the 2021 Brazilian GP. Neither Max nor Lewis were harmed (especially Lewis), so no penalty should apply. Similarly, the Perez-Leclerc-Hamilton saga at the 2022 British Grand Prix, no penalties should apply (especially since it gave us a humdinger of a race). However, George Russell's action on Perez should be penalized since it took a large chunk of Checo's car that he was unable to be competitive.

It's simple really. I honestly don't get the whole "don't look at the outcome but only look at the act" nonsense being bandied out whenever it comes to penalties in racing. How is that justice?


It all sports we look at the act and if it is deemed part of the sport and leads to an injury, in soccer if a clean tackle leads to an injury for the other player then there usually isn't a penalty. Where as an illegal tackle may not result in an injury but probably results in a yellow or red card. Russell's actions yielded a yellow card and he really couldn't have backed out of the turn under breaking unless he runs off which he isn't going to do.

Checo should know better as he got burned at this corner last year. I know Red Bull want to be aggressive but if they are patient here then he overtakes Russell two laps later and they get a 2-3 in this race. Not excusing the incident and Russell was penalized with the same penalty that Hamilton got on Albon in 2020.

What should the penalties been for the these incidents?

So should Lewis should have had a race ban (and for how long) after that indecent a Copse last year?
Should Gasly and Russell been given a race ban for their actions in the British GP as that led to Zhou's crash?

I think the biggest thing this year is that there is not consistency in the officiating. This made Vettel pissed apparently.

I know in most sports the officials needs to be consistent, its either let them race or be nitpicky. Not picking an choosing.
 
marcelh
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:45 pm

VER: 25 adding to his total
LEC: djeez, again kissing the barrier…. (issue with the fbw throttle?)
RUS: won the whining contest hands down, “daddy” Toto even had to calm him down.

A boring race, more a tyre management course….
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:03 pm

marcelh wrote:
VER: 25 adding to his total
LEC: djeez, again kissing the barrier…. (issue with the fbw throttle?)
RUS: won the whining contest hands down, “daddy” Toto even had to calm him down.

A boring race, more a tyre management course….


Second time I wholeheartedly agree with you in just a couple of weeks. Man, times really change.
 
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Aesma
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:58 pm

Leclerc said himself that he made a mistake.

Ferrari strategy awful as usual. If tire degradation was that bad and maybe contributed to LEC's crash, then settle for a 2 stops and stop SAIN much sooner.

PER also whined quite a bit once he was behind RUS.

The race was boring because LEC crashed, otherwise there would have probably been an interesting battle at the front.
 
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Revelation
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:26 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Revelation wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
I for one appreciate the lack of team orders from Ferrari, because both drivers are still in the hunt.

They are both competitive, but the mathematics doesn't support your point much at all. It's just so hard to see how either could make up the gap, which is why it was so important for Ferrari to try to put all the wood behind one arrow.

Stranger things have happened before. Let's not forget, Verstappen arrived in Silverstone in 2021 with a healthly lead and ended up losing it going into the summer break. The lead then ding donged up and down until the last race, when the title contenders ended up equal on points going into the race. So it ain't over till the fat lady sings to be honest.

If I have the numbers right, after 12 of 22 races VER is ahead of LEC by 63 points. For the next three races we'd need VER to DNF three times while LEC gets 1st, 1st and 3rd for to there to be a tie with 7 races remaining, then all he'd need to do is be on par with VER, but we'd really, really have to have 'strange things' for that to happen, and the "remain on par" part is far from guaranteed. VER's execution has been extremely good, running over some debris was just a one-off.

Sorry, not trying to be a buzz kill, but the mathematics are relentless.

marcelh wrote:
VER: 25 adding to his total
LEC: djeez, again kissing the barrier…. (issue with the fbw throttle?)
RUS: won the whining contest hands down, “daddy” Toto even had to calm him down.

A boring race, more a tyre management course….

EDIT: LEC says:

“I think it’s just a mistake. Tried to take too much around the outside, put a wheel probably somewhere dirty, but it’s my fault and if I keep doing mistakes like this then I deserve not to win the championship,” he said.

“I’m losing too many points, I think seven in Imola, 25 here because honestly we were the strongest car on track today,” he added to Sky Sports F1. “So yes, if we lose the championship by 32 points at the end of the season, I will know from where they are coming from. And it’s unacceptable, I just need to get on top of those things.”

So he is not blaming the car at all.

PER says he got screwed by the way the restart after the VSC was handled.

"I just got screwed with the Virtual Safety Car because it said it was going to end up out of Turn 9, so I went for it, but then it didn’t end, and then it ended into Turn 13, so I don’t know what they were doing with it."

Source: formula1.com
 
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zkojq
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 24, 2022 11:05 pm

Carlos was the fastest man all weekend. Such a shame he didn't have the opportunity to turn that into a win. Ferrari really dropped the ball in terms of strategy this weekend....it really was blindingly obvious that the pitstop was going to cost Carlos a position.

Very inconsistent stewarding when you compare the Ocon-Tsunoda incident to the Perez--Russell one. Incidents are supposed to be judged based on the incident itself, not the outcome, so Russell should have gotten a 5s penalty.

Really, really poor form by Charles to crash out from the lead like that. You can't go making such unforced errors if you want to win championships. That said, he was very mature about it post incident; owned up to it fully and didn't make excuses for himself. An excellent role model for younger generations to look up to.

Kmag's opening lap was insane. Seven overtakes and made it look like a video game.

Unlucky weekend for Gasly. AT really are dropping the ball this year compared to past seasons.


I can't even imagine how badly Red Bull & Max would have to choke to not win both championships now...
 
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Aesma
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:09 am

RB had some reliability issues but I guess they can turn everything down a bit now and let Ferrari take poles and the occasional victory...
 
marcelh
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:16 am

zkojq wrote:
Carlos was the fastest man all weekend. Such a shame he didn't have the opportunity to turn that into a win. Ferrari really dropped the ball in terms of strategy this weekend....it really was blindingly obvious that the pitstop was going to cost Carlos a position.

He was fast during qualifying because Ferrari had a very well executed plan to get LEC in front of the grid. And starting at the back of the grid makes it almost impossible to win the race.

Very inconsistent stewarding when you compare the Ocon-Tsunoda incident to the Perez--Russell one. Incidents are supposed to be judged based on the incident itself, not the outcome, so Russell should have gotten a 5s penalty.
True. Maybe the whining of RUS did pay off. Also interesting to see that HAM finished in front of RUS - again! It seems the car is coming to him, but also he isn’t the “drama queen” he used to be earlier in the season. RUS may have a headstart at Mercedes, HAM is definately in front of him now. The superb start shows HAM is back.

[quote[Really, really poor form by Charles to crash out from the lead like that. You can't go making such unforced errors if you want to win championships. That said, he was very mature about it post incident; owned up to it fully and didn't make excuses for himself. An excellent role model for younger generations to look up to.

This is the second time this year he made a very costly unforced error. I really hate to say it, but it looks he’s cracking under pressure. He lacks the predatory attitude of HAM and VER. He may be talking very mature about his own mistakes, but he won’t become World Champion when he continues to make these mistakes.

Kmag's opening lap was insane. Seven overtakes and made it look like a video game.

Great to see how he’s performing. I haven’t missed Maze(s)pin for a second!

Unlucky weekend for Gasly. AT really are dropping the ball this year compared to past seasons.

GAS did the talk earlier on (“we are going to Q3”), but failed to do the walk. I can imagine he’s a bit disappointed knowing PER is staying at RBR.

I can't even imagine how badly Red Bull & Max would have to choke to not win both championships now...

Can be interesting when Mercedes (HAM) is joining the party for front row again.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:07 am

zkojq wrote:
Very inconsistent stewarding when you compare the Ocon-Tsunoda incident to the Perez--Russell one. Incidents are supposed to be judged based on the incident itself, not the outcome, so Russell should have gotten a 5s penalty.


In the case of Ocon-Tsunoda, they touched. Russell didn't touch Perez and didn't gain any advantage whatsoever from that move.

zkojq wrote:
Really, really poor form by Charles to crash out from the lead like that. You can't go making such unforced errors if you want to win championships. That said, he was very mature about it post incident; owned up to it fully and didn't make excuses for himself. An excellent role model for younger generations to look up to.


Honestly, I'm not really a Leclerc fan, but listening to him scream in pain on the video really made me feel sad.
 
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Revelation
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:56 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Honestly, I'm not really a Leclerc fan, but listening to him scream in pain on the video really made me feel sad.

I didn't know what to think of it, and still do not.

My first thought was he was mad about the car because most of us aren't willing to be so self-critical.

Then I said to myself if we're hearing this scream via radio it means he's decided to transmit it for the world to hear, so wtf?

And now we have conspiracy theories: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeZS8ImbsxI

"I cannot go off throttle"... "Now it is at zero percent"....

The video debunks all of the above.

I suppose at the end of the day it is his mistake that put him into the wall, but it seems he took that position mighty quickly and Binotto also pointed the finger at him pretty quickly too, so it leaves one wondering if he had a strong talking to in recent times and was told he needs to do his part to keep the heat off the team and their ongoing poor strategy decisions and reliability issues, since it was the team that was signing his pay checks (cheques?).
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:05 pm

Revelation wrote:

I suppose at the end of the day it is his mistake that put him into the wall, but it seems he took that position mighty quickly and Binotto also pointed the finger at him pretty quickly too, so it leaves one wondering if he had a strong talking to in recent times and was told he needs to do his part to keep the heat off the team and their ongoing poor strategy decisions and reliability issues, since it was the team that was signing his pay checks (cheques?).


I don't buy it. Taking turn 11 in Paul Ricard competitively always means your car is on the edge. Putting your left rear on the white line has a risk of oversteer which is most likely not saveable at this speeds if you overstep that edge. Charles knew that just as well as he knew that he needed to go all the pace he had to battle the undercut of Max.

Sometimes a driving mistake is just that, a driving mistake. What else but admitting it was there to be done?
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:31 pm

zkojq wrote:
I can't even imagine how badly Red Bull & Max would have to choke to not win both championships now...


Yep, it's Verstappen/Red Bull's to lose now.

In some respects, it would be nice for Verstappen to win this year's championship so convincingly as it will go some way towards shutting up the doubters still questioning the legitimacy of his title win last year and harking back to Masi's call in Abu Dhabi. Mercedes haven't produced a car as good as they've been able to produce in the past, I'll talk about Ferrari below and the others are barely able to keep up with Mercedes despite their woes, so it's arguably a good time to go for it. Other teams may or may not get closer next season.

As for Ferrari, I've waited a long time to see them become competitive and fight at the front once again, but the mistakes being made by the team (including Leclerc's accident yesterday) means I will struggle to have much sympathy if Verstappen and Red Bull win both titles at a canter. I also can't help but think some of the mishaps would not have happened approx. 20 years ago.

All that said, the curveball will be Belgium onwards. Even there, I'm not fully convinced it will peg Red Bull and Ferrari back as much as some are hoping will be the case.
 
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Revelation
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:45 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
All that said, the curveball will be Belgium onwards. Even there, I'm not fully convinced it will peg Red Bull and Ferrari back as much as some are hoping will be the case.

A mere curveball won't change the dynamics. VER will have to get zero points in two or three of the remaining ten races and LEC will need to be near flawless for it to even begin to become a competition again.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 6:55 pm

Aesma wrote:
Leclerc said himself that he made a mistake.

Ferrari strategy awful as usual. If tire degradation was that bad and maybe contributed to LEC's crash, then settle for a 2 stops and stop SAIN much sooner.

PER also whined quite a bit once he was behind RUS.

The race was boring because LEC crashed, otherwise there would have probably been an interesting battle at the front.


I initially was on the side that Ferrari bungled the strategy but I have shifted my tune on this, it was largely lose lose for them.
They keep Sainz out on the hards and bring him in between lap 30 and 40 for a change to mediums, he gains track position on the SC but might have a tough time getting through the field as he could easily have been hung up in the McLaren/Apline battle. They get ridiculed for doing this and he probably doesn't catch the Mercs.

You leave him out and his tyers fall off, again Ferrari gets called clowns.

You bring him in again 5 laps earlier and he loses track position and while on fresh tyres he has to fight his way through the field again. Doesn't work out.

Either way he gets around P5.

Perez and Russell was whining 101, Toto did a good job of calming Russell down to eventually overtake Checo.

I agree the race was fairly average.

Revelation wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Revelation wrote:

They are both competitive, but the mathematics doesn't support your point much at all. It's just so hard to see how either could make up the gap, which is why it was so important for Ferrari to try to put all the wood behind one arrow.

Stranger things have happened before. Let's not forget, Verstappen arrived in Silverstone in 2021 with a healthly lead and ended up losing it going into the summer break. The lead then ding donged up and down until the last race, when the title contenders ended up equal on points going into the race. So it ain't over till the fat lady sings to be honest.

If I have the numbers right, after 12 of 22 races VER is ahead of LEC by 63 points. For the next three races we'd need VER to DNF three times while LEC gets 1st, 1st and 3rd for to there to be a tie with 7 races remaining, then all he'd need to do is be on par with VER, but we'd really, really have to have 'strange things' for that to happen, and the "remain on par" part is far from guaranteed. VER's execution has been extremely good, running over some debris was just a one-off.

Sorry, not trying to be a buzz kill, but the mathematics are relentless.



They are. Max's biggest lead last year was 33 points IIRC, this is almost double that.

Assuming Max is up there and gets a P2 or P3 each time which will happen unless the RB engine goes boom. Charles has to win 7 to 9 of the last 10 races to pull even, possible but very unlikely.

I think this will be wrapped up by the time we get to COTA.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:09 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Leclerc said himself that he made a mistake.

Ferrari strategy awful as usual. If tire degradation was that bad and maybe contributed to LEC's crash, then settle for a 2 stops and stop SAIN much sooner.

PER also whined quite a bit once he was behind RUS.

The race was boring because LEC crashed, otherwise there would have probably been an interesting battle at the front.


I initially was on the side that Ferrari bungled the strategy but I have shifted my tune on this, it was largely lose lose for them.
They keep Sainz out on the hards and bring him in between lap 30 and 40 for a change to mediums, he gains track position on the SC but might have a tough time getting through the field as he could easily have been hung up in the McLaren/Apline battle. They get ridiculed for doing this and he probably doesn't catch the Mercs.

You leave him out and his tyers fall off, again Ferrari gets called clowns.

You bring him in again 5 laps earlier and he loses track position and while on fresh tyres he has to fight his way through the field again. Doesn't work out.

Either way he gets around P5.


It appeared on the TV broadcast that Ferrari called Sainz to box at the moment he was overtaking Alonso (? maybe it was Perez). That's pretty hamhanded if it's how it happened, although it's entirely possible that the two things were not as contemporaneous as they appeared on TV.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:16 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Leclerc said himself that he made a mistake.

Ferrari strategy awful as usual. If tire degradation was that bad and maybe contributed to LEC's crash, then settle for a 2 stops and stop SAIN much sooner.

PER also whined quite a bit once he was behind RUS.

The race was boring because LEC crashed, otherwise there would have probably been an interesting battle at the front.


I initially was on the side that Ferrari bungled the strategy but I have shifted my tune on this, it was largely lose lose for them.
They keep Sainz out on the hards and bring him in between lap 30 and 40 for a change to mediums, he gains track position on the SC but might have a tough time getting through the field as he could easily have been hung up in the McLaren/Apline battle. They get ridiculed for doing this and he probably doesn't catch the Mercs.

You leave him out and his tyers fall off, again Ferrari gets called clowns.

You bring him in again 5 laps earlier and he loses track position and while on fresh tyres he has to fight his way through the field again. Doesn't work out.

Either way he gets around P5.


It appeared on the TV broadcast that Ferrari called Sainz to box at the moment he was overtaking Alonso (? maybe it was Perez). That's pretty hamhanded if it's how it happened, although it's entirely possible that the two things were not as contemporaneous as they appeared on TV.


He was overtaking Checo. Alonso was more than 10 seconds back with Russell behind Checo. I don't think those radio messages are live as that came up when it was on the pit straight making the move.

They probably wanted him in on the back straight and he had Checo in DRS range.

I actually have no problems with the call during an overtake, it was just too close to the end for him to make up the places.

I'm actually listening to the Race's recap and they say that he wouldn't have got the 5 second gap to hold the position given his penalty for an unsafe release. The end result P5.
 
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zkojq
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jul 25, 2022 10:43 pm

marcelh wrote:
He was fast during qualifying because Ferrari had a very well executed plan to get LEC in front of the grid. And starting at the back of the grid makes it almost impossible to win the race.


Yes he was helping Leclerc with the tow, but he was also faster in Leclerc. If Ferrari didn't do the unsafe release on him then a late race safety car would have given Carlos the opportunity to win.

Really, really poor form by Charles to crash out from the lead like that. You can't go making such unforced errors if you want to win championships. That said, he was very mature about it post incident; owned up to it fully and didn't make excuses for himself. An excellent role model for younger generations to look up to.


This is the second time this year he made a very costly unforced error. I really hate to say it, but it looks he’s cracking under pressure. He lacks the predatory attitude of HAM and VER.


I just find the double standards with regards to how he's treated for it compared to Sainz very frustrating.


Kmag's opening lap was insane. Seven overtakes and made it look like a video game.

Great to see how he’s performing. I haven’t missed Maze(s)pin for a second!

:checkmark:


Unlucky weekend for Gasly. AT really are dropping the ball this year compared to past seasons.

GAS did the talk earlier on (“we are going to Q3”), but failed to do the walk. I can imagine he’s a bit disappointed knowing PER is staying at RBR.

I can't even imagine how badly Red Bull & Max would have to choke to not win both championships now...

Can be interesting when Mercedes (HAM) is joining the party for front row again.


Will make any comeback even more difficult. That said, I think race pace is a bigger issue for Ferrari than quali pace, at least in regards to Red Bull. Ferrari are still mega quick in the corners, which is a good sign for Hungary.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Very inconsistent stewarding when you compare the Ocon-Tsunoda incident to the Perez--Russell one. Incidents are supposed to be judged based on the incident itself, not the outcome, so Russell should have gotten a 5s penalty.


In the case of Ocon-Tsunoda, they touched. Russell didn't touch Perez and didn't gain any advantage whatsoever from that move.


Well yeah because Perez backed out of it. It was a yield or crash kind of maneuver and Checo yielded (but exited across the tarmac in a way that preserved his gap - not unreasonable imo).
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1596
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am

Revelation wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
All that said, the curveball will be Belgium onwards. Even there, I'm not fully convinced it will peg Red Bull and Ferrari back as much as some are hoping will be the case.

A mere curveball won't change the dynamics. VER will have to get zero points in two or three of the remaining ten races and LEC will need to be near flawless for it to even begin to become a competition again.


Which is why I said I'm not fully convinced as Verstappen in particular has such as commanding lead. It's not like 2003 when the Ferrari/Bridgestone protest resulted in Michelin having to redo their tyre compounds with just a few races to go and with the WDC still on a knife edge between Schumacher, Montoya and Raikkonen. With Verstappen/Red Bull's current form, it would take a string of bad luck and/or a cataclysmic collapse in form to let anybody else other than Ferrari and their drivers into the mix.

If it does have a material impact, it will probably be more like the 2009 season when the Brawn cars gradually lost their competitive edge (remember the double-diffuser interpretation which Brawn won the argument over) but Jenson Button had done enough in the earlier part of the season to be able to wrap up the WDC with one race to spare. Recall he hadn't won since Turkey and that was his sixth win in seven races, however the Brawns had a good weekend at Monza and I felt that played a huge part in being able to eventually bring both titles home.
 
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zkojq
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:30 am

Seb Vettel announces his retirement:

https://streamable.com/5hb0h1

Aston Martin F1 driver and four-time World Champion Sebastian Vettel calls time on one of the greatest careers in the history of the sport.

Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One™ Team driver Sebastian Vettel has decided to retire at the end of the 2022 season, having enjoyed a glittering motorsport career.

The winner of four Formula One Drivers' World Championships, he lies third on the all-time list of Grand Prix winners, with 53 victories, behind only Lewis Hamilton (103) and Michael Schumacher (91).

Sebastian Vettel:

"I have had the privilege of working with many fantastic people in Formula One over the past 15 years - there are far too many to mention and thank.

"Over the past two years I have been an Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One™ Team driver - and, although our results have not been as good as we had hoped, it is very clear to me that everything is being put together that a team needs to race at the very highest level for years to come."


https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... 022-season
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:03 pm

Porsche buys 50% of Red Bull Racing. This will be interesting as Audi are also going to enter F1 and where did it leave Alfa Turi?

https://wtf1.com/post/porsche-are-buyin ... s-f1-team/
 
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TheFlyingDisk
Topic Author
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:53 pm

Not surprising that Vettel's retiring. He already gave a hint earlier that he's not into running at the back. With Aston Martin being highly disappointing this season, the fun just got sucked out for Vettel.

Honest, Lawrence Stroll needs to pull his head out of his ass already. Does he want a backmarker team just so his son can race in F1, or does he want a strong team? If he wants the latter then he has to give a bit of tough love to Lance and move him out of F1. He already has 6 seasons in F1. Anyone else would have said bye bye to F1 already.
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:35 pm

Did not expect that Seb are retiring news this morning. A bit sad.

Now I'm curious how silly season play out
 
ltbewr
Posts: 16264
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:47 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Not surprising that Vettel's retiring. He already gave a hint earlier that he's not into running at the back. With Aston Martin being highly disappointing this season, the fun just got sucked out for Vettel.
Honest, Lawrence Stroll needs to pull his head out of his ass already. Does he want a backmarker team just so his son can race in F1, or does he want a strong team? If he wants the latter then he has to give a bit of tough love to Lance and move him out of F1. He already has 6 seasons in F1. Anyone else would have said bye bye to F1 already.

I doubt Vettel will completely quit racing, for sure he doesn't want to end his great career in a backmarker car. Perhaps like some other ex-F1 drivers he could get a ride with a US based Indy Car series team or be part of a team in endurance racing (LeMans).
 
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TheFlyingDisk
Topic Author
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:26 am

ltbewr wrote:
I doubt Vettel will completely quit racing, for sure he doesn't want to end his great career in a backmarker car. Perhaps like some other ex-F1 drivers he could get a ride with a US based Indy Car series team or be part of a team in endurance racing (LeMans).


I don't think he's going to go racing full time ever again. He was pretty unequivocal about where his priorities lie in his announcement. Maybe a one off appearance like Le Mans or the Indy 500, but no doubt he's going to spend more time at home with his kids.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:22 am

It's sad to see Vettel go. He really seems like a good guy. Like Alonso, I was hoping he'd stay on a bit and give it a shot with a better team.

As for Porsche buying into Red Bull, I didn't see that coming. I knew they intended to get back into F1 along with Audi (although I'm not sure why Volkswagen would suddenly want 2 of their brands to enter the sport at once), but I expected them to do the 'normal' thing and buy a cheap bottom-ranked team and fill it with cash to make it competitive...
I guess they're aiming to be more of a powertrain provider.
 
T4thH
Posts: 1868
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:10 am

Why Vettel is so impressive....next to all other things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH9yXEpoMEw
 
marcelh
Posts: 2124
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:24 am

Hungary qualification was a surprise to say the least, winners and losers.

Winners:
RUS - pole position. WHAT!?!
SAI - P2 just missed pole, but ahead of LEC
NOR - P4 good result!
OCN - P5 won last year, so good mojo.
ALO - P6 with his team mate @P5, a track which suits the Alpine
BOT - P8 is just good in a n Alfa Romeo
RIC - P9 2nd MacLaren in top 10

Losers:
LEC - P3 slowest Ferrari, not good if you want to catch up with VER
HAM - P7 looks like a bit “hit and miss” with this car
VER - P10 Q3 was a disaster and no power in the final run?!?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
Topic Author
Posts: 2588
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:35 am

marcelh wrote:
Hungary qualification was a surprise to say the least, winners and losers.

Winners:
RUS - pole position. WHAT!?!
SAI - P2 just missed pole, but ahead of LEC
NOR - P4 good result!
OCN - P5 won last year, so good mojo.
ALO - P6 with his team mate @P5, a track which suits the Alpine
BOT - P8 is just good in a n Alfa Romeo
RIC - P9 2nd MacLaren in top 10

Losers:
LEC - P3 slowest Ferrari, not good if you want to catch up with VER
HAM - P7 looks like a bit “hit and miss” with this car
VER - P10 Q3 was a disaster and no power in the final run?!?


And Russell didn't have a single purple sector to his time, and yet he's the pole sitter. Like what the hell?
 
Flanker7
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:42 pm

In the meantime Verstappen on p1 from p10. Lecrec on p7 .
 
Flanker7
Posts: 625
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:50 pm

Win in the bag, Ferrari strategy failed again.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4637
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:03 pm

Verstappen, spinning and winning.
Mercedes doing very well.
Ferrari shooting themselves in the foot, again!

What the hell is going on at Ferrari?
 
PHLspecial
Posts: 1252
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:57 pm

So who wants to interview for the Ferrari strategy position?
 
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Grizzly410
Posts: 594
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:53 pm

It was already blindly stupid when Alpine did fit hard tyres on both car's, yet it didn't stop Ferrari doing it ...
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 1231
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:13 pm

Grizzly410 wrote:
It was already blindly stupid when Alpine did fit hard tyres on both car's, yet it didn't stop Ferrari doing it ...


Well, Alpine had no second set of mediums for their drivers. Avoiding the hards would have meant medium-soft-soft with all sets used. So maybe very far from optimal, but hardly blindly stupid in Alpines case.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 4459
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:14 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Verstappen, spinning and winning.
Mercedes doing very well.
Ferrari shooting themselves in the foot, again!

What the hell is going on at Ferrari?


At the rate this is going. Mercedes should finish P2 in the constructors.
 
Nicoeddf
Posts: 1231
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am

Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:15 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Verstappen, spinning and winning.
Mercedes doing very well.
Ferrari shooting themselves in the foot, again!

What the hell is going on at Ferrari?


At the rate this is going. Mercedes should finish P2 in the constructors.


Agree. And not undeserved. Their execution is very good. If now the car starts to be good enough Ferrari will have a hard time.

Anyway, congrats for Max.
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