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Francoflier
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:39 pm

PHLspecial wrote:
So who wants to interview for the Ferrari strategy position?


Someone needs to do a montage of all the Ferrari blunders this year and sync it to the Yackety Sax... Talk about throwing a season away.
It's been hard for Tifosi the last few years, but this season must feel particularly bitter.

At least they're providing a nice illustration of the fact that having a good car is far from enough to win a championship.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:35 pm

Ferrari needs a strong leader.

A strong, non-Italian leader.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:45 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Ferrari needs a strong leader.

A strong, non-Italian leader.


Why would the nationality matter?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:50 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
Why would the nationality matter?


Well, from my observation Italians are notoriously political, which can be seen throughout Ferrari's history.

Right now the last thing Ferrari needs is politics.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 2:09 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
Why would the nationality matter?


Well, from my observation Italians are notoriously political, which can be seen throughout Ferrari's history.

Right now the last thing Ferrari needs is politics.


I don’t even disagree. But the problems are lying deeper than a non-Italian leader. This acute non-performance is so ridiculous on so many levels.
Too bad actually. Would have loved to see them reigning in Red Bull and Merc.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:50 am

Once again, Ferrari are continuing to make strategic blunders that would never have happened 20 or so years ago in the Schumacher era.

Well done to Verstappen for a commanding drive from 10th to secure the win.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:12 am

The F1 silly season just got sillier - Alonso replacing Vettel at Aston Martin!

So Piastri will no doubt be in that Alpine. Who's replacing Latifi?

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/1 ... ula-1-2023
 
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Grizzly410
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:14 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
Grizzly410 wrote:
It was already blindly stupid when Alpine did fit hard tyres on both car's, yet it didn't stop Ferrari doing it ...


Well, Alpine had no second set of mediums for their drivers. Avoiding the hards would have meant medium-soft-soft with all sets used. So maybe very far from optimal, but hardly blindly stupid in Alpines case.


Aaah, didn't notice they only have one set of medium. It makes sense for them now, thanks.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:06 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
The F1 silly season just got sillier - Alonso replacing Vettel at Aston Martin!

So Piastri will no doubt be in that Alpine. Who's replacing Latifi?

https://www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/1 ... ula-1-2023


Nyck De Vries? Toto Wolff had been making remarks lately about how Mercedes might have to let him go if a drive doesn't become available in F1.

I also think it's far from certain that Daniel Ricciardo will still be at McLaren beyond the end of the season. His public statement committing to seeing out his contract could also be interpreted as a dare to Zak Brown and Andreas Seidel to sack him and I don't think results have improved since Brown made his comments about Ricciardo's results falling short of expectations.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 1:18 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
I also think it's far from certain that Daniel Ricciardo will still be at McLaren beyond the end of the season. His public statement committing to seeing out his contract could also be interpreted as a dare to Zak Brown and Andreas Seidel to sack him and I don't think results have improved since Brown made his comments about Ricciardo's results falling short of expectations.


In Hungary Lando finished 7th and Riccardo 15th. They both went on the hard tyres, which as shown by Alpine and Leclerc was as horrible race tyre, but in the space of about 15 laptops Riccardo just went backwards, very fast. Unless the car is 100% suited to his driving style he cannot deliver. Seems he cannot adapt.

Before the race Lando was interviewed on SkyF1 and he said how he has had to adjust his driving style to the car, that it's not what or how he wants to drive but it is what it is so he gets on with it. So Lando has that problem too, but has learned to work around it.

Sorry as much as Riccardo is a fun character and can win races when the car suits him, time's up for me. He's not getting younger, he's not the No1 driver at McLaren.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:24 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
I don’t even disagree. But the problems are lying deeper than a non-Italian leader. This acute non-performance is so ridiculous on so many levels.
Too bad actually. Would have loved to see them reigning in Red Bull and Merc.

Agree. In recent years they could hide behind lack of pace. Now they can't, and what we're seeing is so ugly.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:32 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
The F1 silly season just got sillier - Alonso replacing Vettel at Aston Martin!

I watched a few videos on this already, and they didn't say what I thought was a fairly obvious thing, it lets Lawrence Stroll continue to use his money to protect his son Lance. It gives them a driver that is more experienced and expected to do better than Lance. It'd be a huge problem for him if they went with a younger driver that could get more out of the car than Lance does. It'd be like McLaren where Danny Ric is being exposed by Norris. IMO the long and short of it is that Lawrence shoved wads of cash into Alonzo's pockets to buy a few more seasons for his son.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:32 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
Why would the nationality matter?


Well, from my observation Italians are notoriously political, which can be seen throughout Ferrari's history.

Right now the last thing Ferrari needs is politics.


I have an Italian who cares not for politics and political correctness. Guenther Steiner for Ferrari Team Principal :biggrin:

So for an actual serious remark.

Watch the Drive to Survive episode on Ferrari from season 3. It's all about Ferrari's image. They didn't like Seb's quirks, sense of humor, and questioning of the team. It's the image first above all else. However when Ferrari dominated they weren't like this, they were like RedBull.

They don't seem to really have a good relationship with their drivers and can't work with them when it matters. Look at Horner's relationship to Max and Toto's with Lewis. They are close and go both ways and they say what they mean. Binotto and Leclerc don't have that at all and it seems very uncomfortable.

Let's compare Ferrari to Mercedes and Redbull.

- Immediate team orders from RB and Mercedes to get the faster driver in front. Not so much for Mercedes this year but last year there were team orders every few races. RB haven't hesitated this year one bit.
- Ferrari should have used them in Silverstone and Hungary to get Leclerc in front. They probably would have won in Hungary and did win in Silverstone.

Sainz seems to get this. He drove with Max at Torro Rosso and knows the Redbull culture. When he questions the strategy he is usually right. See Monaco and Silverstone. Leclerc needs to put himself first and if Ferrari doesn't let him. Kiss Toto's behind until Lewis retires.

Christian Horner actually wants this with his drivers. Ferrari does not.

Max questions strategy all the time and so do Checo, Lewis and George. When those teams mess up they own it and they prioritize their drivers and have built that trust.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:28 am

StarAC17 wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Nicoeddf wrote:
Why would the nationality matter?


Well, from my observation Italians are notoriously political, which can be seen throughout Ferrari's history.

Right now the last thing Ferrari needs is politics.


I have an Italian who cares not for politics and political correctness. Guenther Steiner for Ferrari Team Principal :biggrin:

So for an actual serious remark.

Watch the Drive to Survive episode on Ferrari from season 3. It's all about Ferrari's image. They didn't like Seb's quirks, sense of humor, and questioning of the team. It's the image first above all else. However when Ferrari dominated they weren't like this, they were like RedBull.

They don't seem to really have a good relationship with their drivers and can't work with them when it matters. Look at Horner's relationship to Max and Toto's with Lewis. They are close and go both ways and they say what they mean. Binotto and Leclerc don't have that at all and it seems very uncomfortable.

Let's compare Ferrari to Mercedes and Redbull.

- Immediate team orders from RB and Mercedes to get the faster driver in front. Not so much for Mercedes this year but last year there were team orders every few races. RB haven't hesitated this year one bit.
- Ferrari should have used them in Silverstone and Hungary to get Leclerc in front. They probably would have won in Hungary and did win in Silverstone.

Sainz seems to get this. He drove with Max at Torro Rosso and knows the Redbull culture. When he questions the strategy he is usually right. See Monaco and Silverstone. Leclerc needs to put himself first and if Ferrari doesn't let him. Kiss Toto's behind until Lewis retires.

Christian Horner actually wants this with his drivers. Ferrari does not.

Max questions strategy all the time and so do Checo, Lewis and George. When those teams mess up they own it and they prioritize their drivers and have built that trust.


Back in the days when Schumacher and Ferrari were sweeping all before them, the team led by Jean Todt were left to it by Luca di Montezemolo. Ross Brawn's book provided an interesting insight into the blame culture that was prevalent within Ferrari when he joined. He managed to change all that by taking responsibility himself and assuring the engineers etc. they wouldn't be the fall guys if something went wrong. It seems in all the years since Schumacher, Todt, Brawn and Rory Byrne all moved on, they've forgotten what a winning culture is like and what they need to do in order to win. It makes it all the more surprising for me that Ferrari are where they are now as Binotto was there at the time.

I need to watch that particular DTS episode, but one thing Schumacher never did was publicly criticise the team. Any frustrations would have no doubt been dealt with in private and behind closed doors. You can bet there were a few in the early days pre-2000 and also in 2005 (which admittedly was more down to the tyre regs that season and Bridgestone not producing a decent enough tyre).
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:45 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
I need to watch that particular DTS episode, but one thing Schumacher never did was publicly criticise the team. Any frustrations would have no doubt been dealt with in private and behind closed doors.


This particular aspect seems to have not changed.
The way Leclerc and Sainz avoid complaining about the team in public - despite very valid reasons to do so - is rather telling. One big happy family... at all costs.

At least Ferrari do also defend their drivers after their respective mistakes, since none of them are completely free from blame here either.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:23 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Watch the Drive to Survive episode on Ferrari from season 3. It's all about Ferrari's image. They didn't like Seb's quirks, sense of humor, and questioning of the team. It's the image first above all else. However when Ferrari dominated they weren't like this, they were like RedBull.

The comment reminds me of something I read, that Ferrari makes more money selling t-shirts than they do automobiles, so it makes sense that they are all about their image, this is what sells the t-shirts.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:48 pm

Two days in and Silly Season has gone kooko.

Alpine announces Piastri for 2023 and Piastri says he will not be driving with Alpine and it's stated that his camp wants Ricciardo's McLaren seat. Could we see Danny Ric back at Alpine (also bring back Cyril) 8-)

https://the-race.com/formula-1/piastri- ... -his-will/
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:38 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Two days in and Silly Season has gone kooko.

Alpine announces Piastri for 2023 and Piastri says he will not be driving with Alpine and it's stated that his camp wants Ricciardo's McLaren seat. Could we see Danny Ric back at Alpine (also bring back Cyril) 8-)

https://the-race.com/formula-1/piastri- ... -his-will/


Crazy.

And I can’t help but think, that Piastri better has a rock solid option for 2023. Turning down a full time Alpine seat as bloody rookie without even a single FP1 appearance seems,…courageous. He wouldn’t be the first to poker too high and losing it all. Rarely is there a second chance in a top sport like F1.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:57 pm

I didn't see that coming.

It seems the Aussie mafia has a different plan for Piastri, and it had better be rock solid because I doubt Alpine will be very happy about being snubbed by one of the rookies they've groomed for 4 years...

That said, it would be very awkward for Ricciardo to have to crawl back to Alpine/Renault after also snubbing them in favor of McLaren a few years back.

Doohan and Caldwell are theoretically next in line, but I wonder if Alpine might give Theo Pourchaire a shot instead.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:41 am

Just heard an interview with Peter Windsor. He said Alpine did not renew Piastri's contract that was subject to an August 1st deadline so he is in essence a free agent. He also said the only reason he'd reject Alpine would be for McLaren, and that it's likely some sort of deal will be reached with Danny Ric which would have him leave his seat for Piastri!

So, yeah, not just silly season, but sniffing glue crazy season!
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:00 am

Francoflier wrote:
PHLspecial wrote:
So who wants to interview for the Ferrari strategy position?


Someone needs to do a montage of all the Ferrari blunders this year and sync it to the Yackety Sax... Talk about throwing a season away.
It's been hard for Tifosi the last few years, but this season must feel particularly bitter.

At least they're providing a nice illustration of the fact that having a good car is far from enough to win a championship.


This isn't the same but WTF1 does a meme montage after every race and for the most part they roast Ferrari. Here are two of them.

France:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4OW_eo ... 3n&index=9

Hungary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmDS7oY ... n&index=10

I have to say of any sport F1 fans do social media the best. I thought NFL fans were good but they have nothing on F1.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:04 pm

Revelation wrote:
Just heard an interview with Peter Windsor. He said Alpine did not renew Piastri's contract that was subject to an August 1st deadline so he is in essence a free agent. He also said the only reason he'd reject Alpine would be for McLaren, and that it's likely some sort of deal will be reached with Danny Ric which would have him leave his seat for Piastri!

So, yeah, not just silly season, but sniffing glue crazy season!

Two days later, it is all playing out just as the rumours suggested:

https://racingnews365.com/revealed-pias ... en-in-2023

Alpine got caught with their pants down, twice!

Now the main question I have is will Danny Ric take the full payout from McLaren and call it a career, or take a smaller payout in favor of a seat at Alpine? The articles say he's been informed he's out at McLaren, and say he has a binding contract, but it seems getting the full amount might mean a few go-arounds in the courts so a settlement is likely.

Is there a chance that the Alpine car is more suited to his driving style, and he at least helps Alpine maintain its midpack position? Clearly McLaren kicking him to the curb while having to pay him to do so suggests they feel he's more harm than good.

I think Alpine should seek to find someone who can improve their position, but it seems they've messed up the situation. Overall I'd prefer for them to do something bold and take a chance on a young driver with potential upside rather than playing it safe with a veteran driver. Yet, overall, it seems to me the most likely outcome is Danny Ric to Alpine. It'll be hard for Danny to not take the seat, it'll be hard for Alpine to give it to an unproven driver.

I think it's interesting that McLaren did chose to do something bold and move on from Danny Ric, even though it is a costly and presumably risky path. I bet there will be a lot of "I told you so" posts on social media every time Piastri makes a mistake. He'll also be hyped like he's the best thing since sliced bread. Plenty of grist for the social media industry to grind on.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:00 pm

Revelation wrote:

Now the main question I have is will Danny Ric take the full payout from McLaren and call it a career, or take a smaller payout in favor of a seat at Alpine? The articles say he's been informed he's out at McLaren, and say he has a binding contract, but it seems getting the full amount might mean a few go-arounds in the courts so a settlement is likely.

Is there a chance that the Alpine car is more suited to his driving style, and he at least helps Alpine maintain its midpack position? Clearly McLaren kicking him to the curb while having to pay him to do so suggests they feel he's more harm than good.

I think it's interesting that McLaren did chose to do something bold and move on from Danny Ric, even though it is a costly and presumably risky path. I bet there will be a lot of "I told you so" posts on social media every time Piastri makes a mistake. He'll also be hyped like he's the best thing since sliced bread. Plenty of grist for the social media industry to grind on.


If Otmar is willing to have him back I would go back to Alpine if I was Danny Ric, he had a good 2020 in that car with 2 podiums IIRC.
Had 2020 been a normal year I don't think he signs with McLaren for 2021, he signed the deal before the season even started and had no idea that the car would be in contention to lead the midfield. Arguably the Alpine is a superior car to the McLaren this year. Lando just happens to be at the level of George Russell and Charles Leclerc and would probably be ahead of both if he was at Ferrari or Mercedes.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:39 pm

Another round of stuff from Peter Windsor ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVOy7lr2D-E )...

He suggests a lot of interesting stuff, pardon if I get any of it wrong.

He states the only obligation Alpine had to Piastri for 2023 was to either put him in the Alpine seat or financially support his seat at another team i.e. Williams. He doesn't explain how it is that Piastri could just walk away from his contract for 2023 given that Alpine is meeting its obligations.

He states that if Alonso had made his move to Aston Martin known earlier, the Alpine seat would have been open for Piastri, he would have taken it, and none of this would have happened.

Instead the plan being discussed was Piastri to Williams, and at some point McLaren came into the picture, and given the McLaren vs Williams choice, Piastri went for the McLaren seat.

Windsor didn't call Piastri disloyal, but he certainly implied it. He spoke a lot to how much Alpine had invested in him over the years, which is several million dollars, with Alpine now getting no further benefit from that investment.

He didn't say Piastri was making a mistake, but did say that Williams had good people and could improve rapidly, and suggested Alpine and McLaren are pretty similar.

The impression I got was Windsor was being fed info from Alpine insiders and he was spinning the story in their favor.

StarAC17 wrote:
If Otmar is willing to have him back I would go back to Alpine if I was Danny Ric, he had a good 2020 in that car with 2 podiums IIRC.
Had 2020 been a normal year I don't think he signs with McLaren for 2021, he signed the deal before the season even started and had no idea that the car would be in contention to lead the midfield.

Windsor laughed at the idea of Alpine taking him back.

He suggested Williams would go with Logan Sargent and Alex Albon, and thought Danny wouldn't go for Haas or any of the other back of the pack teams. Seems he feels it won't be easy for Danny to get a seat for next season.

StarAC17 wrote:
Arguably the Alpine is a superior car to the McLaren this year. Lando just happens to be at the level of George Russell and Charles Leclerc and would probably be ahead of both if he was at Ferrari or Mercedes.

So many interesting story lines for next year. If Piastri does well in the McLaren, then Danny Ric will be blamed for being an old dog that couldn't learn a new trick. If Piastri does poorly and Danny Ric goes elsewhere and does well, then McLaren will be blamed for making a car that only Lando can drive and for rushing Piastri along in a car that only someone like Lando can drive.

Someone I respect has a line that says "It's easier to learn than to un-learn and re-learn". In other words, it is harder for old dogs to learn new tricks because they probably have to un-learn some aspects of the old tricks to be able to take in new tricks. My inclination is to feel that Piastri will just cope with the car at McLaren better because he probably can adapt to it better than Danny Ric did. Time will tell.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:45 pm

Going based on an Aiden Milward Youtube video (if that is correct) Alpine had a cut off of July 31 to retain Oscar and did not make any such move until after his contract had lapsed. There is some rumor that they tried to reach his agent (Webber) but failed despite Mark being prominently at a Formula E event. I have a very odd much that Oscar will be on the sideline next year with Alex Palou once all the lawyers are done with it. Man Seb really did well to create all this material for the press lol.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:57 am

T18 wrote:
Going based on an Aiden Milward Youtube video (if that is correct) Alpine had a cut off of July 31 to retain Oscar and did not make any such move until after his contract had lapsed. There is some rumor that they tried to reach his agent (Webber) but failed despite Mark being prominently at a Formula E event. I have a very odd much that Oscar will be on the sideline next year with Alex Palou once all the lawyers are done with it. Man Seb really did well to create all this material for the press lol.


The more the situation unfolds the more I am inclined to believe Piastri made a mistake here. Even if he ends in the McLaren seat, which is far from certain if you ask me, there is no guarantee the car will be any better than the Alpine. I believe RIC is underdriving the car as much as Lando is overdriving it.
For all the questionable handling of the situation by Alpine, Piastri is the one who gave the world an impression of being disloyal and bold without ever having proven he is any good in F1.
Despite having a soft spot for Aussies, I am coming to the point where I feel Piastri is pushing his luck heavily to the detriment of his benefactors of the past. Don’t like it.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:22 am

Nicoeddf wrote:
The more the situation unfolds the more I am inclined to believe Piastri made a mistake here. Even if he ends in the McLaren seat, which is far from certain if you ask me, there is no guarantee the car will be any better than the Alpine. I believe RIC is underdriving the car as much as Lando is overdriving it.
For all the questionable handling of the situation by Alpine, Piastri is the one who gave the world an impression of being disloyal and bold without ever having proven he is any good in F1.
Despite having a soft spot for Aussies, I am coming to the point where I feel Piastri is pushing his luck heavily to the detriment of his benefactors of the past. Don’t like it.


I wouldn't put too much of this on Piastri's cockiness.
These 20-something drivers are basically just kids who want to drive and be famous. Many people barely manage to make sound career and financial decisions at twice their age, for comparatively trivial matters.
But because these kids are worth fortunes, you'll find a lot of people behind them busy whispering in their ears and taking advantage of their relative naivety. In this case, I does seem that Webber is the main instigator.
Mark has no real affinity for Alpine/Renault and may not have been a big fan of Williams (where Piastri was almost certain to go before Alonso bowed out) due to his own experience with them.
He most certainly is the one who talked him into leaving Alpine and finding him a way into McLaren.

I hope for these two that it pays off but, as usual, the lawyers will have to sort everything out.

It all does seem to hinge around the July 31st date and I wonder how deliberate was Alonso's decision to make his announcement early August... There certainly seems to be no love lost between him and Alpine.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:48 am

StarAC17 wrote:
If Otmar is willing to have him back I would go back to Alpine if I was Danny Ric, he had a good 2020 in that car with 2 podiums IIRC.


I would think Otmar wouldn't have an issue with Danny Ric returning, given that it was Cyril Abiteboul who was managing the team at the time of RIC's departure.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:06 pm

Nicoeddf wrote:
The more the situation unfolds the more I am inclined to believe Piastri made a mistake here. Even if he ends in the McLaren seat, which is far from certain if you ask me, there is no guarantee the car will be any better than the Alpine. I believe RIC is underdriving the car as much as Lando is overdriving it.

True, yet at the time the key decisions were being made, Piastri's choices were said to be McLaren or Williams. Windsor made a lot about how Williams now has funding and is hiring good people so it's not as bad a landing spot as some suggest, but IMO it takes quite a while for increased funding and talent to show on race day, and some times it does not show up at all.

It's kind of interesting after years of hyping the new 2022 era cars, and saying it'd provide a chance for some of the lesser teams to move up, especially those with new funding sources, we're largely seeing the same order emerge as things shake out. Haas showed some early pace, now they're meh yet again. If anything, one of the old school teams, Ferrari, seem to have benefited the most from the new era.

As for Alpine as a landing spot, some corners of the media are suggesting that Alpine isn't a great place to go. Alain Prost has more or less said their CEO is an ego manic, and Alonso's choice to not tell Alpine of his departure (which has triggered this entire chain of events) is being portrayed as Alonso sandbagging Alpine out of spite. Then the same old rationale of them being state funded so funding runs hot and cold is added in to the mix. Why McLaren or Williams would have been better is left unsaid.

Nicoeddf wrote:
For all the questionable handling of the situation by Alpine, Piastri is the one who gave the world an impression of being disloyal and bold without ever having proven he is any good in F1.
Despite having a soft spot for Aussies, I am coming to the point where I feel Piastri is pushing his luck heavily to the detriment of his benefactors of the past. Don’t like it.

Your point of view is definitely justified. If nothing else, he won't get the benefit of some doubts that he would have gotten if he had just let events play out.

It seems from Piastri's point of view he was going to be spending one if not more seasons at Williams. His actions show he felt that was such a bad outcome he was willing to turn his back on the team that supported him for so long. Some are saying his agent put ideas in his head, but I feel these young men spend a lot of their own time plotting out their own future career moves. I feel they are intensely aware of things such as team loyalty, they literally wear the team name on their clothing. I feel Piastri completely knows not only that he will be viewed as being disloyal, but in fact he is being disloyal, yet he calculated the up side of being at McLaren instead of Alpine made the cost of the act of disloyalty acceptable. His infamous tweet showed he was OK with being ruthless.

At a much much smaller scale, most of us have made similar choices in our work lives. We're working with one outfit, everyone there is (hopefully) pulling for a common goal, yet at the same time we're all sizing up other opportunities. Eventually the perceived gain of the new opportunity overwhelms the pain of breaking bonds with the old outfit. We have to go through that awkward phase of telling the old outfit you're leaving, then dealing with the interesting reactions of your co-workers. Some think of you as disloyal, others think they would have done the same exact thing if they had the same opportunity.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:36 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
If Otmar is willing to have him back I would go back to Alpine if I was Danny Ric, he had a good 2020 in that car with 2 podiums IIRC.


I would think Otmar wouldn't have an issue with Danny Ric returning, given that it was Cyril Abiteboul who was managing the team at the time of RIC's departure.


For my amusement I want Cyril back too. Not necessarily as team principle but in the paddock. :mrgreen: He was hilarious in DTS.

Revelation wrote:

It seems from Piastri's point of view he was going to be spending one if not more seasons at Williams. His actions show he felt that was such a bad outcome he was willing to turn his back on the team that supported him for so long. Some are saying his agent put ideas in his head, but I feel these young men spend a lot of their own time plotting out their own future career moves. I feel they are intensely aware of things such as team loyalty, they literally wear the team name on their clothing. I feel Piastri completely knows not only that he will be viewed as being disloyal, but in fact he is being disloyal, yet he calculated the up side of being at McLaren instead of Alpine made the cost of the act of disloyalty acceptable. His infamous tweet showed he was OK with being ruthless.

At a much much smaller scale, most of us have made similar choices in our work lives. We're working with one outfit, everyone there is (hopefully) pulling for a common goal, yet at the same time we're all sizing up other opportunities. Eventually the perceived gain of the new opportunity overwhelms the pain of breaking bonds with the old outfit. We have to go through that awkward phase of telling the old outfit you're leaving, then dealing with the interesting reactions of your co-workers. Some think of you as disloyal, others think they would have done the same exact thing if they had the same opportunity.


I understand this from an established driver. Example being I fully expect Charles Leclerc to run at the speed of light to Mercedes when Lewis retires if Ferrari don't get their act together. He knows his worth and as a Mercedes fan I am hoping for this :smile:

Paistri is more like the university graduate whom is offered their first job and turns it down for what he thinks is a better one. He has far less leverage than he thinks and it might rub a lot of the teams the wrong way. This may work but it may not, but I would want to get in and if you can beat your teammate then he will be in line for a top seat soon enough.
 
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Revelation
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:44 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Paistri is more like the university graduate whom is offered their first job and turns it down for what he thinks is a better one. He has far less leverage than he thinks and it might rub a lot of the teams the wrong way. This may work but it may not, but I would want to get in and if you can beat your teammate then he will be in line for a top seat soon enough.

Yet the team side seems OK with taking advantage of the leverage they have over Mick Schumacher:

The contract talks between Mick Schumacher and Haas have suspended for Formula 1’s August break, leaving the future for the 23-year-old uncertain.

German broadcasters RTL and ntv are reporting that Haas has "suspended contract talks" with the 23-year-old:

"Team boss Gunther Steiner is therefore no longer in a hurry to negotiate an extended agreement with the driver," RTL announced, speculating that the latest moves in the 'silly season' have diminished Schumacher's alternatives.

"It means Haas can now rely on the time factor, knowing full well that the team is currently the only way for the German to secure his place in Formula 1."

Ref: https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula ... on-martin/

However, I agree that in the end it is the team side that has the ultimate power.

Reminds me of this famous quote from NFL executive Tex Schramm:

Schramm was a leading opponent of the 1987 NFLPA Strike. The NFL players union at the time were agitating for a better deal, including free agency rights. Schramm, with other owners, organized the hiring of replacement players while the usual players were on strike, earning a nickname of "the commissioner of replacement football".[3] Schramm cattily said to executive director of the NFLPA Gene Upshaw "Gene, here’s what you have to understand: we're the ranchers and you're the cattle, and we can always get more cattle."

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tex_Schramm

PS: I agree, Cyril was great on DTS!
 
marcelh
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:47 am

StarAC17 wrote:
I understand this from an established driver. Example being I fully expect Charles Leclerc to run at the speed of light to Mercedes when Lewis retires if Ferrari don't get their act together. He knows his worth and as a Mercedes fan I am hoping for this :smile:


I really can’t see that happening. LEC next to RUS will be a HAM/ROS drama all over again, I can’t see LEC nor RUS accepting being a second driver like BOT has done. RUS is the obvious successor of HAM and of the current drivers only ALB is a potential second driver next to RUS.

Some thoughts:
RIC to Alpine is a possibility, but what does RIC add to the team? What about GAS to Alpine and MSC from Haas to Alpha Tauri? With Porsche becoming an engine supplier of Red Bull Racing within a few years, I can image they like to have a Schumacher driving for them. In the meantime MSC can be prepared to become second driver for RBR at Alpha Tauri.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:00 pm

I was looking at a bunch of F1 "silly season" content yesterday.

It was funny to be in a situation where any content that was one day old or older was no longer relevant...

Seems the big drama has ended for now.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:56 am

marcelh wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
I understand this from an established driver. Example being I fully expect Charles Leclerc to run at the speed of light to Mercedes when Lewis retires if Ferrari don't get their act together. He knows his worth and as a Mercedes fan I am hoping for this :smile:


I really can’t see that happening. LEC next to RUS will be a HAM/ROS drama all over again, I can’t see LEC nor RUS accepting being a second driver like BOT has done. RUS is the obvious successor of HAM and of the current drivers only ALB is a potential second driver next to RUS.


I don't think it was a case of Bottas accepting his role as a second driver (or at least not in the same way as Irvine and Barrichello at Ferrari years ago), though it's telling that he said a few months ago that Alfa Romeo are more receptive and responsive to his needs and requests than Mercedes. It was probably more a case of Hamilton being the clear and obvious driver for Mercedes to get behind combined with Bottas' own limits as a driver in comparison making it an easy decision. Bottas has/had ambitions just as much as anybody else on the grid and I'm sure Mercedes would have gotten behind him 100% if he was more likely to win the championship or if something happened to Hamilton like with Schumacher in 1999 that led to Irvine being their sole focus for the rest of the season.

That said, I think the Hamilton vs Rosberg rivalry stung Mercedes a bit and that may have played a factor in recruiting Bottas in the first place when Rosberg called it a day as he never comes across as the sort of person that would upset the apple cart.

I agree that Russell was no doubt signed as the long-term successor to Hamilton and could well have been thrust into that role sooner had Hamilton not decided to honour his 2 year contract.
 
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scbriml
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:55 pm

I saw this posted on Reddit and it's absolute genius. At first glance it looks like a fairly normal cut-away view of the Ferrari garage, but look much closer and you'll find so many hidden gems.

Best viewed on a large screen so you can zoom in and see all the glorious detail...

Image
https://preview.redd.it/o08og3osr7f91.j ... 5ff2ce17fd
(c) Richard Parry
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Mon Aug 08, 2022 9:15 pm

Looks like the drama will roll on:

LONDON, Aug 8 (Reuters) - Alpine could seek millions in compensation at the London High Court if their Australian reserve Oscar Piastri refuses to race for them next season, team principal Otmar Szafnauer told Reuters on Monday.
...
Szafnauer said all the indications from their base in Paris were that Alpine were prepared for a legal battle once the sport's August break was over.
...
Szafnauer said he understood Alonso's reasoning, with the money and length of contract likely key factors for the 41-year-old Spaniard, but had expected Piastri to show integrity and loyalty.

Ref: https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sport ... 2022-08-08

Interesting. Suppose he caves under the pressure of the court case and says, right, I'l drive for you, how in the world would they then take him back and expect to rebuild the relationship? Everything is hunky-dory, move on, nothing to see here? From now on, it'll all be loyalty and integrity?
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:35 pm

scbriml wrote:
I saw this posted on Reddit and it's absolute genius. At first glance it looks like a fairly normal cut-away view of the Ferrari garage, but look much closer and you'll find so many hidden gems.

Best viewed on a large screen so you can zoom in and see all the glorious detail...

Image
https://preview.redd.it/o08og3osr7f91.j ... 5ff2ce17fd
(c) Richard Parry


What a beautiful und funny work!
 
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zkojq
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:56 pm

Not relly sure why Rossi is getting dismissed here.

Revelation wrote:
Alain Prost has more or less said their CEO is an ego manic, and Alonso's choice to not tell Alpine of his departure (which has triggered this entire chain of events) is being portrayed as Alonso sandbagging Alpine out of spite.


Fernando Alonso burning bridges with a team is not something out of the ordinary, more the sign that it's a day ending in y.

Nicoeddf wrote:
For all the questionable handling of the situation by Alpine, Piastri is the one who gave the world an impression of being disloyal and bold without ever having proven he is any good in F1.
Despite having a soft spot for Aussies, I am coming to the point where I feel Piastri is pushing his luck heavily to the detriment of his benefactors of the past. Don’t like it.


More to the point, looking at the way the various media outlets are reporting the story, there seem to be a lot of cases of giving Oscar (and his management) the benefit of the doubt but very little of that for Alpine.

Given the situation with Alex Palou and McLaren, I'm very skeptical as to whether McLaren should be given much benefit of the doubt when it comes to deciding if the people they sign are free agents or not.

I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that the world's third or fourth largest Automaker can probably afford a better suite of lawyers than an ex Formula Two driver can. Although apparently his father is a lawyer.....


Either way I think he should have handled this a bit more diplomatically.

Revelation wrote:
Suppose he caves under the pressure of the court case and says, right, I'l drive for you, how in the world would they then take him back and expect to rebuild the relationship? Everything is hunky-dory, move on, nothing to see here? From now on, it'll all be loyalty and integrity?


Jenson Button had a similar situation with BAR Honda and it worked out fine. He had already raced for the team so won't have been building up an internal reputation/rapport from scratch.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:21 pm

Well the last 4 weeks have kind of given us an idea of what the grid like is next year. Yes its race week again!!
One thing most of us were thinking was inevitable has happened, Danny Ric is officially. out at McLaren.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/ricciard ... tay-in-f1/

I hope Danny Ric goes back to Alpine and redeems himself. I don't think he leaves after 2020 if it was a normal season, IIRC he signed with McLaren before the 2020 season was underway.
 
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zkojq
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:23 pm

 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:42 pm

zkojq wrote:


Indeed. Sad for him and it shows. On the other hand, it might be best to end this unfortunate stint together, and off to a new challenge for Dani Ric.
 
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T18
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:19 pm

Honestly hope that if no F1 seat opens that Danny would consider Indycar or even NASCAR, we could use his personality stateside.
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:07 pm

So, what next for Danny Ric?

Alpine: Bridges burned? Same problems he had there in the past? Same problems that made Alonso run for the door?

Haas, Williams: Not competitive enough?

AlphaTauri: Beneath him to return? No path to Red Bull so why take up a seat meant for a developmental driver?

Play out the string this season, call it a career, go home and count the money? Why not?
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
So, what next for Danny Ric?

Alpine: Bridges burned? Same problems he had there in the past? Same problems that made Alonso run for the door?

Haas, Williams: Not competitive enough?

AlphaTauri: Beneath him to return? No path to Red Bull so why take up a seat meant for a developmental driver?

Play out the string this season, call it a career, go home and count the money? Why not?


Otmar seems to be open to wanting him back, not sure the higher ups do. I still think he doesn't leave Renault if 2020 was a regular season. IIRC he signed the McLaren deal during the spring 2020 lockdown.

I was listening to the Race podcast on this and they made a good case for him to go to Williams. Him and Albon could be the ones who could turn Williams around and I think long time F1 fans (I am not one of them) really long for the days when Williams was at the top of the grid. Not to say that they will ever get to the level of winning but challenging for podiums and consistently in the points.


On another note. Six drivers are starting at the back of the grid on Sunday including Verstappen and Leclerc. This opens up the door for a potential Mercedes victory.

https://wtf1.com/post/verstappen-lecler ... s-weekend/
 
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scbriml
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:37 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
On another note. Six drivers are starting at the back of the grid on Sunday including Verstappen and Leclerc. This opens up the door for a potential Mercedes victory.


Perez and Sainz have entered the chat...
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:39 pm

scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
On another note. Six drivers are starting at the back of the grid on Sunday including Verstappen and Leclerc. This opens up the door for a potential Mercedes victory.


Perez and Sainz have entered the chat...


Yeah. Really hope Sainz can get another win in.
 
StarAC17
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:01 pm

scbriml wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
On another note. Six drivers are starting at the back of the grid on Sunday including Verstappen and Leclerc. This opens up the door for a potential Mercedes victory.


Perez and Sainz have entered the chat...


Checo - The car is max centric he will be on the podium but not win. :duck:
Sainz - There is gravel at Spa :duck:
 
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:05 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
I was listening to the Race podcast on this and they made a good case for him to go to Williams. Him and Albon could be the ones who could turn Williams around and I think long time F1 fans (I am not one of them) really long for the days when Williams was at the top of the grid. Not to say that they will ever get to the level of winning but challenging for podiums and consistently in the points.

To me at least, it's an interesting thought exercise to consider putting someone we know is a great driver into a back of the pack car like Williams now is and see how much a difference it would make.

In the case of Danny Ric, all we are being told is "it did not click" with him driving the McLaren. How do we know Danny will "click" with whatever car he (presumably) gets into next? Presumably we're being told he likes a car that lets him break really late, is any of the seats on offer like that?

How do we know Danny isn't "broken"? Is another team going to be brave (or crazy) enough to pay him based on what he did two teams and many years ago?

He just took the better part of, what, $20M times 3 seasons off of McLaren, does he really have the competitive fire still?

StarAC17 wrote:
On another note. Six drivers are starting at the back of the grid on Sunday including Verstappen and Leclerc. This opens up the door for a potential Mercedes victory.

https://wtf1.com/post/verstappen-lecler ... s-weekend/

Now if Merc and the Prancing Horse can just arrange for Max to start at the back of the grid for the rest of the season, it might get interesting again.
 
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scbriml
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:11 pm

Revelation wrote:
Now if Merc and the Prancing Horse can just arrange for Max to start at the back of the grid for the rest of the season, it might get interesting again.


Even from last on the grid, I'd still expect him to challenge for the podium. All it takes is a couple of Safety Cars to bunch the field up at opportune times...
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: 2022 F1 Season News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:45 am

Revelation wrote:
In the case of Danny Ric, all we are being told is "it did not click" with him driving the McLaren. How do we know Danny will "click" with whatever car he (presumably) gets into next? Presumably we're being told he likes a car that lets him break really late, is any of the seats on offer like that?


If he goes back to Alpine, then the chance of him clicking with the car is higher. We all saw what he did with the Renault back in 2019, he trounced Ocon convincingly.
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