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marcelh wrote:Revelation wrote:marcelh wrote:Another hilarious post, keep up the good work. I see a lot of wishful thinking In your recent posts, maybe you should stop watching “Drive to Survive”. It’s just a commercial disguised as a dramatized documentary with a lot of framing.
Feel free to live on in denial. Nothing to see here, la la la la la.
The only in denial is you, I’m sorry to say. It seems you have some naive view of F1 drivers being the perfect son-in-law and behaving accordingly when they are racing. And if they don’t (surprise: VER doesn’t), you are upset and start to whine about his behavior.
As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop.
Revelation wrote:La de da, nothing to see here, move on...
Wait, a statement from Red Bull on the matter?As a team we made some mistakes in Brazil. We had not envisaged the situation that unfolded on the last lap and we had not agreed a strategy for such a scenario before the race. Regretfully, Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention. Following the race Max spoke openly and honestly, allowing for both drivers to resolve any outstanding issues or concerns. The Team accept Max's reasoning, the conversation was a personal matter which will remain private between the team and no further comment will be made.
The events that followed from a social media point of view are completely unacceptable. The abusive online behaviour towards Max, Checo, the Team and their respective families is shocking and saddening and unfortunately is something that we as a sport are having to address with depressing regularity. There is no place for it in racing or society as a whole and we need to do and be better. At the end of the day this is a sport, we are here to race. Death threats, hate mail, vitriol towards extended family members is deplorable. We value inclusion and want a safe space for everyone to work in and enjoy our sport. The abuse needs to stop.
Ref: https://www.redbullracing.com/int-en/te ... grand-prix
TL;DR: Stop picking on poor Max, he can act as bad as he wants and it's all our fault, we completely exonerate him, shame on you if you don't!
morrisond wrote:Horner and Red Bulls constant excuses for Max make me really want him gone.
morrisond wrote:Horner and Red Bulls constant excuses for Max make me really want him gone. He is taking after his wife beating old-man. Russell, Norris or LeClerc in that car would be just as good with the number of seasons Max has.
Regarding Schumacher getting the boot - expected and do you really want a driver who can't compete with the best, unless they bring bags full of cash?
At the least he isn't embarrassingly slow in the class of some of the sports Mobile Chicane's over the years. I think that was one of James Hunt's favourite expressions.
Revelation wrote:morrisond wrote:Horner and Red Bulls constant excuses for Max make me really want him gone.
The thing they don't explain is why Max gets to pick and choose the team orders he'll follow and the ones he'll ignore. They don't for the obvious reason, the rest of the team is too embarrassed to admit the most important part of their job is to kiss Max's ring.
StarAC17 wrote:The team has made him feel that he is the next Senna or Schumacher and that is why he feels he calls the shots. It would be rather easy for Redbull to buy Max out if he becomes a bigger cancer within the team.
mad99 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFImqBddhfs
Looks like the reason Max didn’t want to give Perez the position is due to Monaco. Looks like Perez crashed to keep Max from completing a faster Q3 lap and that resulted in a win for Perez.
If true, and the evidence looks to prove it, I can understand it.
mad99 wrote:Looks like the reason Max didn’t want to give Perez the position is due to Monaco. Looks like Perez crashed to keep Max from completing a faster Q3 lap and that resulted in a win for Perez.
If true, and the evidence looks to prove it, I can understand it.
StarAC17 wrote:Also if we are allowed to believe this then I can believe that whatever Yuki did and Zandvoort by stopping, then pitting, then stopping again to draw a VSC or SC was ordered by Helmut Marko to ensure a Max win.
StarAC17 wrote:Danny Ric back at Redbull??
The last race is on Sunday but silly season is going to last. PlanetF1 isn't the best source but not a troll one either.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/ralf-schu ... do-chance/
This is almost as good as the Twitter antics.
A further quote, reported by Motorsport.com, from Marko read: “We have so many sponsors, we have to do show runs and the like, so of course he’s one of the most high-profile and best suited.”
Revelation wrote:
Well, if he isn't going to be king or queen, it looks like he's at least going to be a courtier, standing by in case one of the royal houses collapses.
So much going on...
“I mean, it’s quite clear what happened, you know, I just had a bad lap and chasing the lap time in Monaco, everyone can make mistakes and not only Monaco, in any other track so nothing really more to add.”
“I obviously regret a lot of things I said after the race because I am back with Max in the relationship we used to have, and we are both on the team and everyone is ready to move forwards.”
...
“But I think I’m able to put all of this behind us. My priority is to have a good environment to work in and to be able to trust my team-mate, to trust my team. And that’s my priority.”
“You know, I always put the team up front because at the end of the day, it is a team effort. So yeah, I think what we learned from that is that we have to be a little bit more open, and we just have to communicate better to each other.”
“I’m not going to go into detail what that was because that was between myself and the team, but it is incredibly disappointing that while you’re not knowing the full facts that people write so many bad things straight away. I don’t know why that is,”
StarAC17 wrote:Danny Ric back at Redbull??
petertenthije wrote:StarAC17 wrote:Danny Ric back at Redbull??
According to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf” the return of Danny has been confirmed by Helmut Marko. He’ll be the third driver.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/31815723 ... j-red-bull
petertenthije wrote:StarAC17 wrote:Danny Ric back at Redbull??
According to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf” the return of Danny has been confirmed by Helmut Marko. He’ll be the third driver.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/31815723 ... j-red-bull
Revelation wrote:petertenthije wrote:StarAC17 wrote:Danny Ric back at Redbull??
According to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf” the return of Danny has been confirmed by Helmut Marko. He’ll be the third driver.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/31815723 ... j-red-bull
Great timing! I'm sure Checo feels so much love coming from his team right now!
marcelh wrote:Revelation wrote:petertenthije wrote:According to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf” the return of Danny has been confirmed by Helmut Marko. He’ll be the third driver.
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/31815723 ... j-red-bull
Great timing! I'm sure Checo feels so much love coming from his team right now!
If PER thinks he’s getting love from RBR he’s very nave…. He’s second driver of RBR, gets paid very well for it and should behave like that.
Nicoeddf wrote:Apart from that, why wouldn’t a second driver be not entitled to love? Not a Merc fan at all here, but they managed the HAM-BOT relationship with as much love as possible in a professional sports environment. To the benefit of everybody.
Nicoeddf wrote:marcelh wrote:Revelation wrote:Great timing! I'm sure Checo feels so much love coming from his team right now!
If PER thinks he’s getting love from RBR he’s very nave…. He’s second driver of RBR, gets paid very well for it and should behave like that.
He should actually take out Max at an opportune moment sometime next year, in a Hamilton-Rosberg like move. That would be fun as a spectator, fun in the press aftermath and would teach Max a valuable lesson that the time will come where the car isn’t so superior he doesn’t need a team mate.
Apart from that, why wouldn’t a second driver be not entitled to love? Not a Merc fan at all here, but they managed the HAM-BOT relationship with as much love as possible in a professional sports environment. To the benefit of everybody.
marcelh wrote:Nicoeddf wrote:marcelh wrote:
If PER thinks he’s getting love from RBR he’s very nave…. He’s second driver of RBR, gets paid very well for it and should behave like that.
He should actually take out Max at an opportune moment sometime next year, in a Hamilton-Rosberg like move. That would be fun as a spectator, fun in the press aftermath and would teach Max a valuable lesson that the time will come where the car isn’t so superior he doesn’t need a team mate.
We all have our dreams, haven’t we?Apart from that, why wouldn’t a second driver be not entitled to love? Not a Merc fan at all here, but they managed the HAM-BOT relationship with as much love as possible in a professional sports environment. To the benefit of everybody.
BOT wasn’t that stupid to “peeep” HAM, like PER seems to have done with VER. People over here are disliking VER that much, they not only ignore some very persistent stories about that, but the hatred devaluated it into some “VER-bashing fest”. I’m a F1
enthusiast for decades (even before VER sr. went to Benneton), I genuinely don’t understand the bashing.
It seems the F1 is attracting another kind of “fans” nowadays. Well, this thread can be locked after tomorrow’s race and I’m looking forward to see the 2023 season.
StarAC17 wrote:Most of them act with class but Max often does not off the track.
- Brazil 2018: Shoving Ocon after an incident at the same corner when Ocon was trying to unlap himself. If I was Estaban, I would have given him a solid right hook afterwards. Lewis actually had to calm him down.
StarAC17 wrote:- Walking off the podium after the Saudi 2021 GP when he was at fault for the incidents with Lewis. Had Abu Dhabi been reversed I don't think he would have had the grace Lewis had.
StarAC17 wrote:- The Sky boycott. In other sports leagues refusal to talk to the media gets you a fine. I think he was invited to Vegas but they scrapped him and brought in Albon. Lewis, George and Checo can have a good time.
StarAC17 wrote:Some that were 50-50.
- Not checking on Lewis after the Monza crash.
StarAC17 wrote:- Not telling his dad to keep his mouth shut when Redbull said Checo is in the championship.
- Not telling his family to be quiet. You don't see parents of other drivers running their mouths, only the Verstappen family.
morrisond wrote:Horner and Red Bulls constant excuses for Max make me really want him gone. He is taking after his wife beating old-man. Russell, Norris or LeClerc in that car would be just as good with the number of seasons Max has.
Nicoeddf wrote:Everytime somebody isn’t full in love with Max you are butthurt to the highest extent. Your „standard of fans“ you proclaim hasn’t changed. People then and nowadays following F1 can differentiate between the skill of driving and the likeability of a personality.
Max driving is among the absolute best I have seen since I follow F1 decades ago. Max personality and sense of entitlement is…difficult.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Leclerc already has a car as great as Red Bull's, and yet despite getting the most poles this season his poles to win conversion rate is poor at only 33%. Sainz was able to pull out a win at Silverstone inspite of the team bungling up strategies, so why isn't Leclerc doing the same?
marcelh wrote:I genuinely don’t understand the bashing.
Nicoeddf wrote:Max is on a different level though, in my absolutely personal opinion. I am no fan of HAM at all, but if you can’t see the worlds of difference comparing attitudes of HAM and VER…
marcelh wrote:Nicoeddf wrote:Max is on a different level though, in my absolutely personal opinion. I am no fan of HAM at all, but if you can’t see the worlds of difference comparing attitudes of HAM and VER…
The 2022 HAM isn’t the 2016 HAM, who is much more comparable (age, experience) with the 2022 VER.
Already posted upthread, but you might have missed it. Final race of 2016, HAM leading but slowing down to put pressure on his teammate ROS by VET and VER. Would ROS have finished 3rd, HAM would be world champion instead of ROS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfUm6kKsJw
If you can’t see the similarities between HAM and VER………
Revelation wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:Mick is out has Haas and Hulkenberg is in. Not sure I agree with this because there is more potential with Mick but Haas needs the points and Haas is cash strapped. Mick crashed the car quite a bit and had the highest crash tab on the grid.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/schumach ... f1-return/
Revelation wrote:That may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's hard to run an organization when (allegedly) two of its most important employees aren't communicating freely, especially if it is due to resentment. Yet I have a hard time believing this report. It seems if the two were not communicating we'd see more signs of it.
Revelation wrote:A different report I ran across that I found interesting: Alpine sacked their head of legal affairs, for some pretty obvious reasons!
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/158498/f ... -case.html
StarAC17 wrote:- Brazil 2018: Shoving Ocon after an incident at the same corner when Ocon was trying to unlap himself. If I was Estaban, I would have given him a solid right hook afterwards. Lewis actually had to calm him down.
StarAC17 wrote:- The Sky boycott. In other sports leagues refusal to talk to the media gets you a fine.
StarAC17 wrote:Max really has no right to complain about the hate when his own mother accuses Sergio Perez of cheating on his wife.
https://jalopnik.com/max-verstappens-mo ... 1849791687
StarAC17 wrote:Jos Verstappen said Red Bull should have prioritized Max over Checo in Monaco.
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/3401 ... -monaco-gp
The fact that Red Bull didn't toss Jos out of the garage after this is why this has gotten to where it is. The family really shouldn't have any opinion on the teams affairs, if he is there he is quiet and is like a celebrity in the garage.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:Max has every right to be aggrieved.
zkojq wrote:StarAC17 wrote:Mick is out has Haas and Hulkenberg is in. Not sure I agree with this because there is more potential with Mick but Haas needs the points and Haas is cash strapped. Mick crashed the car quite a bit and had the highest crash tab on the grid.
https://the-race.com/formula-1/schumach ... f1-return/
Seems like a step backwards for me. Hulkenberg is slightly above average at best and that was before he had been [mostly] out of the sport for three years. Lovely bloke though and I'm sad that his F1 career didn't amount to more. I'm not defending Mick's performances, but he wasn't terrible and if you're going to replace him then surely you should probably do so with someone better.
The relationship between Mick and the team seems to have completely broken down. He did a few donuts on his in lap and the end of the race which his engineer desperately tried to stop him. The response from Mick was a very sarcastic "I love you too".
Nicoeddf wrote:Your statement regarding standard of fans awfully sounds like „everything used to be better“.
Nicoeddf wrote:And yes, every F1 driver has a certain sense of entitlement. They wouldn’t be where they are if they hadn’t. Max is on a different level though, in my absolutely personal opinion. I am no fan of HAM at all, but if you can’t see the worlds of difference comparing attitudes of HAM and VER…
zkojq wrote::checkmark: Seems like a step backwards for me. Hulkenberg is slightly above average at best and that was before he had been [mostly] out of the sport for three years. Lovely bloke though and I'm sad that his F1 career didn't amount to more. I'm not defending Mick's performances, but he wasn't terrible and if you're going to replace him then surely you should probably do so with someone better.
marcelh wrote:Nicoeddf wrote:Max is on a different level though, in my absolutely personal opinion. I am no fan of HAM at all, but if you can’t see the worlds of difference comparing attitudes of HAM and VER…
The 2022 HAM isn’t the 2016 HAM, who is much more comparable (age, experience) with the 2022 VER.
Already posted upthread, but you might have missed it. Final race of 2016, HAM leading but slowing down to put pressure on his teammate ROS by VET and VER. Would ROS have finished 3rd, HAM would be world champion instead of ROS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfUm6kKsJw
If you can’t see the similarities between HAM and VER………
FluidFlow wrote:Now lets look at VER, who only won his first title because of Perez, who didn't even had the decency to give PER a second place in the championship to repay for his service. Yeah... he will never become a great, because he is no great sportsman. A very good driver, but no great. And IMHO it will take too much to make up for stuff like this with his personality traits.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
He's not responsible for the actions of his family, nor is he's not responsible for the actions of his girlfriend's father or family.
zkojq wrote:
You're right. Ocon just has too much class for that though. Even this year when he's had untold amounts of abuse thrown at him (much of it directed at him from his teammate) he never reacts to it, always stays classy and refuses to sink to their level.
Max has every right to be aggrieved. He was leading the race and Ocon took him out. It is reminiscent of Michael Schumacher storming to the McLaren pitlane at the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix to have it out with David Coulthard after he ran into the back of Coulthard while trying to lap the Scotsman. Or this incident involving Nelson Piquet at the 1982 German Grand Prix. Nobody said anything about either Schumacher or Piquet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCPAKVm7-po
ltbewr wrote:F1 won't return to China in 2023, as hasn't since 2020 due to continuing severe anti-Covid policies in there that would limit drivers, crews from attending or not face being quarantined if any hint of infection. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-s ... f1661cb148
StarAC17 wrote:Would you be saying that if Anthony Hamilton ran his mouth at Toto Wolff for not prioritizing Lewis in say 2016. Or if Antonio Pérez Garibay made comments about Red Bull screwing over his son in Spain this year. How about if Anthony Hamilton's brother (or another family memeber) called Max a cracker or some other white insult. I can ensure that many who want to brush this aside would want more than a "I can't control my family from Lewis"
StarAC17 wrote:Max can be rightfully pissed but what you can't do is react with physical contact on another driver, Schumacher was wrong and so was Piquet. This isn't UFC and drivers should not be physically fighting each other over racing incidents on the track.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:But that's what makes F1 fun, drivers who are passionate, not robots. PC drivers are such a bore.
Francoflier wrote:Despite showing unity and confidence on the surface, it seems all was not well within the Ferrari team and that their disheveled seasons has taken a toll on Binotto, who will apparently quit after his Boss John Elkann lost confidence in him:
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sport ... 022-11-25/
Hard to tell who would replace him but Alfa's boss Frederic Vasseur has been rumored to take over.
Mattia Binotto has offered his resignation as team principal of Ferrari.
In truth, if his departure is confirmed, it will be a case of being pushed rather than jumping after a mixed season, but one in which he lost the confidence of key players, including No 1 driver Charles Leclerc and chairman John Elkann.
Binotto is expected to be replaced by Alfa Romeo boss, Fred Vasseur, a 54-year-old Frenchman who ran Leclerc in his junior career.
Mattia Binotto replied: “When this speculation came out, I had a chat with my chairman, John Elkann,” – the Ferrari boss revealed – “Together we discussed openly what was the best way to move forward and we decided that to release a statement was maybe the best way to close any speculations. Clearly those are speculations, totally with no foundations. I think for me right now, what’s the most important is to make sure to stay focused on the race weekend and for the team not be distracted, because certainly the rumours are always there,” he pointed out.
TheFlyingDisk wrote:From 2008 to 2022 (14 years), Ferrari had 4 team principals from Stefano Domenicalli, to the forgettable guy whose name I can't even remember, to Maurizio Arrivabene, and now Mattia Binotto. They only won one constructor's championship, and no driver's title
From 1994 to 2007 (13 years), they had one team principal, Jean Todt. They won 7 constructor's title and 6 driver's titles.
Maybe it's not the team principal that needs changing, really.