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flipdewaf
Posts: 4521
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:21 pm

N14AZ wrote:

May Putin suffer from ingrown toenails for the rest of his life…


Love it! I’m adding that to lexicon!

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
NIKV69
Posts: 15070
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:41 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:

Wait. Are you making an Obama reference?


Anyway, why not pull up your bootstraps and find a better paying job?


Why? I have a great job and I am probably the most overpaid person you will talk to. I wasn't bitching about what I am paying just making a reference to it. In the end it's a blessing because the midterms will deal the Dems a more crushing blow than in 2010.
 
ACDC8
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:49 pm

Was watching a little blurb on the local news the other day about oil prices and gas prices and why we haven't seen a drop in price at the pump since oil has gone down, the answer given was that gas prices always lag behind the price of oil and usually takes weeks to adjust. They then asked why when the price of oil goes up, the "lag" is almost instant and the price at the pump goes up literally overnight - no comment, utter silence.

Over course, we all already know this - price of fuel has no problem going up 10 cents a litre over night but will take 2 months to trickle down again a penny or two at a time.

:rotfl:
 
Opinions
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Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:14 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:36 am

Very strange situation.
Europeans and Americans are paying for Western sanctions, not Russians.

In Russia, fossil fuel prices have gone down since Ukraine invasion.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17993
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:46 am

Opinions wrote:
Very strange situation.
Europeans and Americans are paying for Western sanctions, not Russians.

In Russia, fossil fuel prices have gone down since Ukraine invasion.


You think fossil fuel prices are the only measure of what people 'pay' in an economy? Net worth is more important, and that's evaporating in Russia as we speak.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
M564038
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:46 am

There is more to an economy than gas prices..

Opinions wrote:
Very strange situation.
Europeans and Americans are paying for Western sanctions, not Russians.

In Russia, fossil fuel prices have gone down since Ukraine invasion.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17993
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:49 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


Right, and tell me again how you have not been living in a globalized economy and oil commodity market for most of your adult life. :sarcastic:

Regardless of whatever media blowhards are saying, even opening the floodgates at the federal level, the oil industry in the US is not ready to ramp up production this year. There's this little thing called the Great Resignation affecting every industry. Everything would still be well over $4/gallon. Or are you not as libertarian as we should believe, and would advocate for temporary federal bans (quite illegal most likely) on US companies exporting their oil to protect domestic prices? :lol:
 
JJJ
Posts: 4276
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:59 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Opinions wrote:
Very strange situation.
Europeans and Americans are paying for Western sanctions, not Russians.

In Russia, fossil fuel prices have gone down since Ukraine invasion.


You think fossil fuel prices are the only measure of what people 'pay' in an economy? Net worth is more important, and that's evaporating in Russia as we speak.


Not to mention choice. The lines at Ikea, McDonalds, etc. at the last day of opening have been very revealing.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:09 am

Opinions wrote:
Very strange situation.
Europeans and Americans are paying for Western sanctions, not Russians.

In Russia, fossil fuel prices have gone down since Ukraine invasion.


Yeah and you can't buy more than 5 items from some supermarkets. Can't go to your usual western fast food. The rubles on your bank account have lost half their value. Can't watch netflix. Food variety will go down (by that I mean fruits etc., not fast food). Russian state is stealing the contents of your bank vault. Say one word wrong and you end up in a gulag for 15 years. Living the life !
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:29 am

Aesma wrote:
Opinions wrote:
Very strange situation.
Europeans and Americans are paying for Western sanctions, not Russians.

In Russia, fossil fuel prices have gone down since Ukraine invasion.

Can't watch netflix.

Heard Russia wants to start their own streaming channel. They will call it Njetflix. :ziplip:
 
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Aesma
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:47 am

Can't use Apple pay, Google pay. Get your plastic card out : can't use that either. Getting hard currency from the bank ? Banned by Putin. Only worthless rubles allowed.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:51 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


You have nothing to complain about. Compared to prices in Norway / Europe, that is cheap.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 4521
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:42 pm

Mortyman wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


You have nothing to complain about. Compared to prices in Norway / Europe, that is cheap.

I haven’t filled up for this cheap since 2009!

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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casinterest
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:12 pm

Oil prices are still falling today, back under $100 a barrel.

https://oilprice.com/

The shale industry is picking up the slack, the chinese economy is slowing due to Covid, and India may be about to buy all the Russian cheap oil.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:39 pm

Mortyman wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


You have nothing to complain about. Compared to prices in Norway / Europe, that is cheap.


That money goes toward that great free health care you have.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:51 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


You have nothing to complain about. Compared to prices in Norway / Europe, that is cheap.


That money goes toward that great free health care you have.



They would still be paying less for health care than we do in the US.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state ... s-by-state

The US spends almost 10,000 per person per year in healthcare.

The average cost per person of gas per year

https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/ ... -american/
The most popular car in America, the Ford F-150. gets 24 miles per gallon of gas. On average, Americans drive 13,500 miles a year, according to U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Highway Administration.

When you divide 13,500 miles by how many miles per gallon the F-150 gets, that means the average American uses 562 gallons of gas a year.

562 gallons a year combined with that $3.27 price tag means Americans are spending $1,837 a year on gas.

Compared to last year when the average price was $2.19 a gallon, Americans were spending $1,230 on gas. That’s a $607 difference.


Even if we jack that up to the 4.00 mark that is out there now, we still don't spend much on gas.
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:52 pm

PlymSpotter wrote:
kelval wrote:
PlymSpotter wrote:
For a litre of Diesel I've seen £1.79 near to me in Surrey, UK, and a friend saw £1.95 today at a remote station in the South West of the UK.

I'm also watching the cost of heating oil, which is skyrocketing. In the autumn we paid £0.37 per litre, then when I phoned up two weeks ago (before the invasion) it had risen to £0.88 per litre - so I ordered 'just' 1,500 litres (our tanks take almost 5000L total). Then late last week I decided we needed another 1000 litres to get us safely out of winter - price now unavailable. You can place an order, but they will charge you a price on the day of delivery, not agreed in advance as usual, and it would be at least £1.20 per litre. Sod that, I've spent the weekend cutting firewood instead and we have a ground source heat pump installer coming out next week to plan a system. We really dislike burning oil anyway and this (partly the cost but more importantly the idea we are burning 'blood-oil' from Russia) is the final straw - we'll need a commercial grade GSHP system, but at these prices it will pay for itself in about 6 years.

My clients are paying over 1.50€ per liter in south of france at the moment.
I changed from an oil boiler to a pellet boiler this winter, and a ton of pellets is worth 340€ at the moment. Pellets energy density is about half of oil, so you need two tonw of pellets to heat as much as 1000l of oil,you do the math. Oil is about twice the price now.

I did the move for the ecological impact, and the horrid smell that was lurking inside the house, but actually hit the jackpot.


We have considered pellets, and also bail burners, but have decided that it's time to invest in low / no carbon renewables. How do you find the operating of the system - it is quite time consuming?

Our ideal installation would be a 50kw solar array (costed at about £35,000 installed), which at some point (when battery tech is a little better) will be paired with a large number of high capacity batteries, in part powering a GSHP. However we found out today that, in the UK, you can't power a GSHP directly from a solar / battery installation - not if you want it to be an 'accredited' system - we're looking into whether not being accredited will impact your business / home insurance. Instead you apparently have to sell the generated solar power back to the national grid (typically for between £0.02 and £0.05 per unit) and then buy it back (at around £0.20p currently) which kind of defeats the object of freeing yourself from reliance on carbon fuels and volatile energy markets.


You should look at videos on youtube of electricvehicleman, think he posted on similar concerns last week itself.

https://www.youtube.com/c/ElectricVehicleMan
 
pune
Posts: 1480
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I think one hope of Putin is that the sanctions, in particular with oil and the massive price increases will eventually be rescinded on Russia, even if takes partial control of Ukraine, as the 'west' will face serous problems with their economies, politicians losing power, inability or rationality to not have military confrontation with Russia due to risks of nuclear weapons used. Other oil production countries won't boost output as making massive amounts of money from it to fund their governments, they have pretty much told the USA to 'get lost' when asked. That means increasing oil prices as post-pandemic demand increases, many can't reduce use and blaming high oil prices in the USA on the 'Democrats' including President Biden.


People will blame it on whatever - with the level of misinformation out there these days, the majority of people blaming the government can be said to be totally misinformed. I saw an idiot Tweet yesterday that if they simply 'turned on Keystone' it would solve the crisis. :sarcastic:



These folks that love Keystone always forget, it would have helped lower US energy independence as it would have been Canadian oil flowing through it, which would have idled US rigs.

For now though it makes for a good story, even though the shortage is not that real. China and India will probably buy the oil from Russia, pushing more Mideast oil back to the US.


I dunno what the current situation but till last week there were rumors in the air that if India buys oil from Russia, there will be sanctions against India. There was a bit of back and forth so no idea what the current line is from the Governments.
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:10 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
anstar wrote:
Time to move to EVs?


EVs are basically unobtanium in huge areas of the US and Canada.


From what I have understood, both have around 4-6 months waiting time and longer :(
 
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casinterest
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:17 pm

pune wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

People will blame it on whatever - with the level of misinformation out there these days, the majority of people blaming the government can be said to be totally misinformed. I saw an idiot Tweet yesterday that if they simply 'turned on Keystone' it would solve the crisis. :sarcastic:



These folks that love Keystone always forget, it would have helped lower US energy independence as it would have been Canadian oil flowing through it, which would have idled US rigs.

For now though it makes for a good story, even though the shortage is not that real. China and India will probably buy the oil from Russia, pushing more Mideast oil back to the US.


I dunno what the current situation but till last week there were rumors in the air that if India buys oil from Russia, there will be sanctions against India. There was a bit of back and forth so no idea what the current line is from the Governments.



There are others looking out there.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/14/energy/i ... index.html



India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys only about 2% to 3% from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.
"Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that," one of the Indian government officials said.


The article mentions logistics issues, but cheap oil is cheap oil.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:24 pm

pune wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
anstar wrote:
Time to move to EVs?


EVs are basically unobtanium in huge areas of the US and Canada.


From what I have understood, both have around 4-6 months waiting time and longer :(


That depends regionally. For example, I've heard from a EVbro buddy of mine that a major midwestern US city doesn't even receive EV shipments to the dealer from two major manufacturers.

So, if you live in that city you have to order via a dealership not even in that time zone, take delivery THERE, and then bring the car back home.

That's not terribly surprising, as the cars are ordered individually, so its not like there is a ton of extra for dealer stock, and these vehicles are going for MSRP plus a premium on the secondary markets like Carvana, let alone what the dealerships are able to sell them at (which is usually MSRP+ at a minimum and who are increasingly demanding cash versus financing.)

So, conclusion is that shift to EVs is not just as easy as zipping down to the GloboCar Dealership and plunking down your down payment.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:29 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
pune wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

EVs are basically unobtanium in huge areas of the US and Canada.


From what I have understood, both have around 4-6 months waiting time and longer :(


That depends regionally. For example, I've heard from a EVbro buddy of mine that a major midwestern US city doesn't even receive EV shipments to the dealer from two major manufacturers.

So, if you live in that city you have to order via a dealership not even in that time zone, take delivery THERE, and then bring the car back home.

That's not terribly surprising, as the cars are ordered individually, so its not like there is a ton of extra for dealer stock, and these vehicles are going for MSRP plus a premium on the secondary markets like Carvana, let alone what the dealerships are able to sell them at (which is usually MSRP+ at a minimum and who are increasingly demanding cash versus financing.)

So, conclusion is that shift to EVs is not just as easy as zipping down to the GloboCar Dealership and plunking down your down payment.


Markets change. In the 90s there were only two companies to go with for home solar installations.
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:30 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
pune wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

EVs are basically unobtanium in huge areas of the US and Canada.


From what I have understood, both have around 4-6 months waiting time and longer :(


That depends regionally. For example, I've heard from an EVbro buddy of mine that a major midwestern US city doesn't even receive EV shipments to the dealer from two major manufacturers.

So, if you live in that city you have to order via a dealership not even in that time zone, take delivery THERE, and then bring the car back home.

That's not terribly surprising, as the cars are ordered individually, so its not like there is a ton of extra for dealer stock, and these vehicles are going for MSRP plus a premium on the secondary markets like Carvana, let alone what the dealerships are able to sell them at (which is usually MSRP+ at a minimum and who are increasingly demanding cash versus financing.)

So, the conclusion is that shifting to EVs is not just as easy as zipping down to the GloboCar Dealership and plunking down your down payment.


Agreed with that, the Electric Viking did two-three videos on the MSRP+ situation about a couple of months back. The solution is to go the Tesla way cutting out the dealer. Apparently, a number of companies including Volkswagen are thinking about going down the same route. Ford tried to warn its dealers about the above but apparently, it didn't work. Either way long-term it seems it would be a direct sales channel just like Tesla.
 
FlapOperator
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:36 pm

pune wrote:

Agreed with that, the Electric Viking did two-three videos on the MSRP+ situation about a couple of months back. The solution is to go the Tesla way cutting out the dealer. Apparently, a number of companies including Volkswagen are thinking about going down the same route. Ford tried to warn its dealers about the above but apparently, it didn't work. Either way long-term it seems it would be a direct sales channel just like Tesla.


I think you're right. I think the dealership model is dependent upon a great deal of legal frameworks and political lobbying that supports that model over an actual need.
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:12 pm

casinterest wrote:
pune wrote:
casinterest wrote:


These folks that love Keystone always forget, it would have helped lower US energy independence as it would have been Canadian oil flowing through it, which would have idled US rigs.

For now though it makes for a good story, even though the shortage is not that real. China and India will probably buy the oil from Russia, pushing more Mideast oil back to the US.


I dunno what the current situation but till last week there were rumors in the air that if India buys oil from Russia, there will be sanctions against India. There was a bit of back and forth so no idea what the current line is from the Governments.



There are others looking out there.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/14/energy/i ... index.html



India, which imports 80% of its oil needs, usually buys only about 2% to 3% from Russia. But with oil prices up 40% so far this year, the government is looking at increasing this if it can help reduce its rising energy bill.
"Russia is offering oil and other commodities at a heavy discount. We will be happy to take that," one of the Indian government officials said.


The article mentions logistics issues, but cheap oil is cheap oil.


There is and was a lot of talk, we had a good deal with the Iranians for e.g. two years back, this goes all the way back from 2012 till 2016. Because of the U.S. pushback, we had to abandon the Iranians :(

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 88419.ece1
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:58 pm

Read the whole thread, interestingly though nobody talked about how oil spills. And even I was surprised as to how many oil spills and how regularly they happen, somehow they are not part of the news -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xPqi654sBk&t=495s

I was just amazed. If people really knew that I don't think most people would wanna be associated with such practises. But then most people don't know and such news is hard to find out.

There is also the bit about pollution that somebody hinted at but didn't go further.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-56801794

And then there is Shell's own 1988 confidentiality report that tells all -

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ment3.html
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:06 pm

As far as penetration of EV vehicles is concerned, I think many people are right. Europe and China for e.g. would have full penetration (i.a. 100% EV) probably by 2025. The rest of the world however is subject to how much they spend on creating charging infrastructure in each country. The most interesting developments have been happening In LFP and solid-state batteries and both have high potential. LFP as shared by a gentleman above is used by the Chinese as well as most cars coming out of Giga Shanghai. If memory serves right, BYD just opened up a factory within 10 months and the first EV cars will be out in June or something. And they are gonna be for the Chinese consumption as well as exports to other countries.

In the short-term LFP is gonna get some good energy density, something like 20%+ and the solid-state battery will only push it over.
Last edited by pune on Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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william
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:11 pm

 
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seb146
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:48 pm

pune wrote:
As far as penetration of EV vehicles is concerned, I think many people are right. Europe and China for e.g. would have full penetration (i.a. 100% EV) probably by 2025. The rest of the world however is subject to how much they spend on creating charging infrastructure in each country. The most interesting developments have been happening In LFP and solid-state batteries and both have high potential. LFP as shared by a gentleman above is used by the Chinese as well as most cars coming out of Giga Shanghai. If memory serves right, BYD just opened up a factory within 10 months and the first EV cars will be out in June or something. And they are gonna be for the Chinese consumption as well as exports to other countries.

In the short-term LFP is gonna get some good energy density, something like 20%+ and the solid-state battery will only push it over.


In the United States, it is more than just not investing in charging infrastructure. We have been conditioned to believe that fossil fuel is the only way. One political party is stopping at nothing to keep that going. Up to and including misinformation about EVs. We could have been the world leader in EVs and clean energy but one side had to invest heavily in misinformation. Like wind cancer and the sun running out and how many hours it takes to charge instead of investing in rapid charge infrastructure and alternative fuel sources.
 
pune
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
pune wrote:
As far as penetration of EV vehicles is concerned, I think many people are right. Europe and China for e.g. would have full penetration (i.a. 100% EV) probably by 2025. The rest of the world however is subject to how much they spend on creating charging infrastructure in each country. The most interesting developments have been happening In LFP and solid-state batteries and both have high potential. LFP as shared by a gentleman above is used by the Chinese as well as most cars coming out of Giga Shanghai. If memory serves right, BYD just opened up a factory within 10 months and the first EV cars will be out in June or something. And they are gonna be for the Chinese consumption as well as exports to other countries.

In the short-term LFP is gonna get some good energy density, something like 20%+ and the solid-state battery will only push it over.


In the United States, it is more than just not investing in charging infrastructure. We have been conditioned to believe that fossil fuel is the only way. One political party is stopping at nothing to keep that going. Up to and including misinformation about EVs. We could have been the world leader in EVs and clean energy but one side had to invest heavily in misinformation. Like wind cancer and the sun running out and how many hours it takes to charge instead of investing in rapid charge infrastructure and alternative fuel sources.


I know and knew about diesel exhaust causing cancer but wind cancer, that's a new one -

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-ca ... ancer.html

Guessing it's the same party from whom Kremlin (Russia is rooting) specifically Tucker Carlson. I was astonished when I found out that in his presidency, he passed laws stopping innovation in EVs, Nuclear isn't also an answer as lead times are well over a decade and more, and then you have the issues with Nuclear waste. In a recent Fully charged show Robert Llewellyn shared how it took almost 12 years just to get permission for a nuclear plant and how expensive the whole thing would be while on the other hand solar, wind or any of the other alrernative ways would have been done in months, or at the most a year. The Hornsdale battery took what 4-5 months from a twitter conversation to be fully deployed.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:24 pm

This would be a good time for the US to put a tariff on all imported oil and oil products not from Canada or Mexico. Sell it as a US security issue. Make it a buck a gallon.
Then rebate some of the money to taxpayers as an Energy Conservation check. Use the rest to subsidize high efficiency furnaces, air conditioners, refrigerators for average folks. (I replaced my 1976 built whole house AC in 2021 and cut my summer electric bill in half)
Stay away from subsidizing EV's. More money for EV's just feeds the right wing narrative.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8623
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Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:53 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
That depends regionally. For example, I've heard from a EVbro buddy of mine that a major midwestern US city doesn't even receive EV shipments to the dealer from two major manufacturers.

So, if you live in that city you have to order via a dealership not even in that time zone, take delivery THERE, and then bring the car back home.

That's not terribly surprising, as the cars are ordered individually, so its not like there is a ton of extra for dealer stock, and these vehicles are going for MSRP plus a premium on the secondary markets like Carvana, let alone what the dealerships are able to sell them at (which is usually MSRP+ at a minimum and who are increasingly demanding cash versus financing.)

So, conclusion is that shift to EVs is not just as easy as zipping down to the GloboCar Dealership and plunking down your down payment.

In Canada, it can be even a bit more difficult. The ID4 from VW for example, is currently only available in 2 Provinces and in those Provinces, its only available at certain dealerships. The VW dealership I've been dealing with for the last 20 years isn't one of them, and the process in becoming an EV compatible dealership is extensive and costly, not only from a sales perspective, but also from the servicing perspective.
 
pune
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:03 am

ACDC8 wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
That depends regionally. For example, I've heard from an EVbro buddy of mine that a major midwestern US city doesn't even receive EV shipments to the dealer from two major manufacturers.

So, if you live in that city you have to order via a dealership not even in that time zone, take delivery THERE, and then bring the car back home.

That's not terribly surprising, as the cars are ordered individually, so its not like there is a ton of extra for dealer stock, and these vehicles are going for MSRP plus a premium on the secondary markets like Carvana, let alone what the dealerships are able to sell them at (which is usually MSRP+ at a minimum and who are increasingly demanding cash versus financing.)

So, the conclusion is that shifting to EVs is not just as easy as zipping down to the GloboCar Dealership and plunking down your down payment.

In Canada, it can be even a bit more difficult. The ID4 from VW for example is currently only available in 2 Provinces and in those Provinces, it's only available at certain dealerships. The VW dealership I've been dealing with for the last 20 years isn't one of them, and the process in becoming an EV compatible dealership is extensive and costly, not only from a sales perspective but also from the servicing perspective.


Those issues will remain for a long-time unless and until the stranglehold on the technology is relaxed as is done in China. That' is the reason why it is such a craze in China. Not only is it easy to get it charged but also serviced and whatever your car, it will be serviced by the local mechanic. Alas, that's not true in the U.S. or even in India. The taxes on EVs at least in India are actually killing the market even though the rules for conventional cars have been made tough. You can't sell cars second-hand if it is a petrol or diesel and by 2030, all diesel and petrol cars will be banned in India. Of course, illegally lot of stuff changes hands but then quality suffers.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 17993
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:10 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
This would be a good time for the US to put a tariff on all imported oil and oil products not from Canada or Mexico. Sell it as a US security issue. Make it a buck a gallon.
Then rebate some of the money to taxpayers as an Energy Conservation check. Use the rest to subsidize high efficiency furnaces, air conditioners, refrigerators for average folks. (I replaced my 1976 built whole house AC in 2021 and cut my summer electric bill in half)
Stay away from subsidizing EV's. More money for EV's just feeds the right wing narrative.


These are all excellent suggestions. The GCC will throw a hissy fit though and permanently re-align with Russia/PRC.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 15615
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:16 am

ACDC8 wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
That depends regionally. For example, I've heard from a EVbro buddy of mine that a major midwestern US city doesn't even receive EV shipments to the dealer from two major manufacturers.

So, if you live in that city you have to order via a dealership not even in that time zone, take delivery THERE, and then bring the car back home.

That's not terribly surprising, as the cars are ordered individually, so its not like there is a ton of extra for dealer stock, and these vehicles are going for MSRP plus a premium on the secondary markets like Carvana, let alone what the dealerships are able to sell them at (which is usually MSRP+ at a minimum and who are increasingly demanding cash versus financing.)

So, conclusion is that shift to EVs is not just as easy as zipping down to the GloboCar Dealership and plunking down your down payment.

In Canada, it can be even a bit more difficult. The ID4 from VW for example, is currently only available in 2 Provinces and in those Provinces, its only available at certain dealerships. The VW dealership I've been dealing with for the last 20 years isn't one of them, and the process in becoming an EV compatible dealership is extensive and costly, not only from a sales perspective, but also from the servicing perspective.


At my company's HQ, where 3000 people work, there is a car workshop to deal with all the company cars. They have a bay for electric cars, along with people trained in dealing with them. It was an investment, but not a crazy one, they made it 5 or 6 years ago when there were literally 2 electric minivans to deal with. Now it's hundreds of cars.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8623
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:26 am

Aesma wrote:
At my company's HQ, where 3000 people work, there is a car workshop to deal with all the company cars. They have a bay for electric cars, along with people trained in dealing with them. It was an investment, but not a crazy one, they made it 5 or 6 years ago when there were literally 2 electric minivans to deal with. Now it's hundreds of cars.

Where I work, we have 5200 employees spread across 6 properties and we don't have a single charger.
 
pune
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 2:39 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
At my company's HQ, where 3000 people work, there is a car workshop to deal with all the company cars. They have a bay for electric cars, along with people trained in dealing with them. It was an investment, but not a crazy one, they made it 5 or 6 years ago when there were literally 2 electric minivans to deal with. Now it's hundreds of cars.

Where I work, we have 5200 employees spread across 6 properties and we don't have a single charger.


I had seen a similar situation in my city as well. I know of areas where a lot of people have bought EVs and working in companies and the companies don't have EV chargers. Of course, the last few years, the great Resignation has meant that salaries and bonuses have been cut across companies and most companies are hiring cheap 'talent' who have no idea about the company or have any sort of institutional memory. And many of them get fired after 6 months, a year whatever. I have seen even engineering companies do this, it is just crazy but it is what it is. And most of these companies have been doing lot of compartmentalizing over the years so the possibility of an employee having the big picture becomes rarer and rarer :(

All of the above has played a major role in decreasing investments. Even the Government has been decreasing returns on investments on Fixed Deposits, PPF and EPF and most young people know they cannot afford the lifestyle that their parents did :(
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15517
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:30 pm

POTUS has nailed the current Gas Price issue. Turning the screws on the industry now.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1504073842871963653

Image.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8623
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:54 pm

casinterest wrote:
POTUS has nailed the current Gas Price issue. Turning the screws on the industry now.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1504073842871963653

Image.

LOL, is anyone really surprised? This has been standard practice in Canada for decades - someone, somewhere sneezes and the price of oil goes up before you can say gesundheit, followed by an immediate jump in the price at the pump (even though the fuel at the station is already paid for at the lower price). Price of oil crashes, then the price at the pump remains the same or trickles down penny by penny over weeks because the pump price "lags". When the price doesn't go down, then its about "supply" or "demand" (they seem to alternate between the two) and if it isn't that, then its the switch to "summer" gas or "winter" gas.

You can tell me what you want, but oil companies artificially set the pump price higher than what the price of oil really commands and then when the price of oil goes down, the price of gas, even though is coming down, is still higher than what it should be. Thats why fuel went up to $2.15/litre here, because as soon as the price of oil comes down, they can keep their pump prices at around the coveted $2.00/litre mark and say that they already dropped the price by 15 cents a litre.

Oh well, rumour is that travellers will no longer need a Covid test coming back to Canada as of April 1, so cheaper fuel here I come :biggrin:
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8648
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
POTUS has nailed the current Gas Price issue. Turning the screws on the industry now.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1504073842871963653

Image.


Literally 4 days? This is electioneering garbage at its finest. The Kremlin would be proud.
 
pune
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Thu Mar 17, 2022 4:49 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
POTUS has nailed the current Gas Price issue. Turning the screws on the industry now.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1504073842871963653

Image.

LOL, is anyone really surprised? This has been standard practice in Canada for decades - someone, somewhere sneezes and the price of oil goes up before you can say gesundheit, followed by an immediate jump in the price at the pump (even though the fuel at the station is already paid for at the lower price). Price of oil crashes, then the price at the pump remains the same or trickles down penny by penny over weeks because the pump price "lags". When the price doesn't go down, then its about "supply" or "demand" (they seem to alternate between the two) and if it isn't that, then its the switch to "summer" gas or "winter" gas.

You can tell me what you want, but oil companies artificially set the pump price higher than what the price of oil really commands and then when the price of oil goes down, the price of gas, even though is coming down, is still higher than what it should be. Thats why fuel went up to $2.15/litre here, because as soon as the price of oil comes down, they can keep their pump prices at around the coveted $2.00/litre mark and say that they already dropped the price by 15 cents a litre.

Oh well, rumour is that travellers will no longer need a Covid test coming back to Canada as of April 1, so cheaper fuel here I come :biggrin:



Are you sure that you live in Canada because what you described has been the same in India for decades, the only difference is the taxes added by the current Govt. which was 5% before is now 65%, Our rates are the highest this side of the ocean :(
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24663
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:07 pm

PPVRA wrote:
casinterest wrote:
POTUS has nailed the current Gas Price issue. Turning the screws on the industry now.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1504073842871963653

Image.


Literally 4 days? This is electioneering garbage at its finest. The Kremlin would be proud.


Are you saying the price of oil can not change in four days?
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Thu Mar 17, 2022 7:48 pm

Crude oil was up almost $9 today. Yikes.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 15517
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:08 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Crude oil was up almost $9 today. Yikes.



https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/ ... Shock.html

A lot is still to be sorted out about Russian Oil.
As I said, it will be a rough spring summer, and that was before the Russian Kamikaze curveball.

We will have to see how long it takes to get production up.

Right now , not giant moves in US production.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=W

Will the Middle East ramp up first?

When you go to the below page, you can see that OPEC can easily handle the needed 3 million a day volume

https://www.eia.gov/opendata/qb.php?category=1039874
 
SEAorPWM
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:41 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:05 am

casinterest wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Crude oil was up almost $9 today. Yikes.



https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/ ... Shock.html

A lot is still to be sorted out about Russian Oil.
As I said, it will be a rough spring summer, and that was before the Russian Kamikaze curveball.

We will have to see how long it takes to get production up.

Right now , not giant moves in US production.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=W

Will the Middle East ramp up first?

When you go to the below page, you can see that OPEC can easily handle the needed 3 million a day volume

https://www.eia.gov/opendata/qb.php?category=1039874


If anyone does, I doubt it will be the two big GCC states in OPEC.

Compare the two articles below about the Japanese PM's recent visit to Riyadh, posted about an hour apart:

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022 ... rkets.html

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/he ... tate-media

The Kyodo piece has no mention of the OPEC+ agreement for the small monthly increases.

I've been seeing a pattern over the last 1-2 weeks where the following happens:

1) Government of a large foreign consumer nation begs SA and the UAE for more production.
2) Talks end amicably and officials from consumer nation mention commitments to maintain market "stability" and "balance".
3) Saudi or Emirati officials return home and repeat the same buzzwords/phrases from Step 2, but say this will be accomplished by sticking with the current output agreement.

Washington and Boris just fell for this lip service crap a few days ago. It would be funny if it wasn't for the impending economic collapse this will cause.
 
pune
Posts: 1480
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:19 am

SEAorPWM wrote:
casinterest wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Crude oil was up almost $9 today. Yikes.



https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/ ... Shock.html

A lot is still to be sorted out about Russian Oil.
As I said, it will be a rough spring summer, and that was before the Russian Kamikaze curveball.

We will have to see how long it takes to get production up.

Right now , not giant moves in US production.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=W

Will the Middle East ramp up first?

When you go to the below page, you can see that OPEC can easily handle the needed 3 million a day volume

https://www.eia.gov/opendata/qb.php?category=1039874


If anyone does, I doubt it will be the two big GCC states in OPEC.

Compare the two articles below about the Japanese PM's recent visit to Riyadh, posted about an hour apart:

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022 ... rkets.html

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/he ... tate-media

The Kyodo piece has no mention of the OPEC+ agreement for the small monthly increases.

I've been seeing a pattern over the last 1-2 weeks where the following happens:

1) Government of a large foreign consumer nation begs SA and the UAE for more production.
2) Talks end amicably and officials from consumer nations mention commitments to maintain market "stability" and "balance".
3) Saudi or Emirati officials return home and repeat the same buzzwords/phrases from Step 2, but say this will be accomplished by sticking with the current output agreement.

Washington and Boris just fell for this lip service crap a few days ago. It would be funny if it wasn't for the impending economic collapse this will cause.


The problem for both is their heavy dependence on oil. But neither wants to let go of it as oil is a money-making corrupting influence. You could have a lot of it by doing onshore or off-shore solar, wind, and other renewable energies but in the U.S. the Republicans don't want it and in the UK Boris is also the same, although other people seem to be doing a lot more at least in the UK to use renewable sources, Perhaps not to the degree the rest of the Europe is doing but that hopefully will change, good time to kick th habit.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14179
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:16 am

Mortyman wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


You have nothing to complain about. Compared to prices in Norway / Europe, that is cheap.


Yup cost me 1400 NOK to fill my car the other day, it's not all due to Russia that stupid champagne socialist Norwegians voted for last year increased fuel tax which has compounded this issue.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 8623
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:26 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Yup cost me 1400 NOK to fill my car the other day, it's not all due to Russia that stupid champagne socialist Norwegians voted for last year increased fuel tax which has compounded this issue.

Just did a quick conversion to CAD

My deepest condolences :wideeyed:
 
M564038
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:27 am

If you chose to drive a dinosaur car in Norway, you better pay a bit extra. It is our air you are polluting.

Kiwirob wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Paid the most I ever have for a gallon today. $4.99 hows that hopey changey stuff working for ya?


You have nothing to complain about. Compared to prices in Norway / Europe, that is cheap.


Yup cost me 1400 NOK to fill my car the other day, it's not all due to Russia that stupid champagne socialist Norwegians voted for last year increased fuel tax which has compounded this issue.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 14179
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Gasoline prices, it hurts.

Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:35 am

SEAorPWM wrote:
casinterest wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Crude oil was up almost $9 today. Yikes.



https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/ ... Shock.html

A lot is still to be sorted out about Russian Oil.
As I said, it will be a rough spring summer, and that was before the Russian Kamikaze curveball.

We will have to see how long it takes to get production up.

Right now , not giant moves in US production.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=W

Will the Middle East ramp up first?

When you go to the below page, you can see that OPEC can easily handle the needed 3 million a day volume

https://www.eia.gov/opendata/qb.php?category=1039874


If anyone does, I doubt it will be the two big GCC states in OPEC.

Compare the two articles below about the Japanese PM's recent visit to Riyadh, posted about an hour apart:

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2022 ... rkets.html

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/he ... tate-media

The Kyodo piece has no mention of the OPEC+ agreement for the small monthly increases.

I've been seeing a pattern over the last 1-2 weeks where the following happens:

1) Government of a large foreign consumer nation begs SA and the UAE for more production.
2) Talks end amicably and officials from consumer nation mention commitments to maintain market "stability" and "balance".
3) Saudi or Emirati officials return home and repeat the same buzzwords/phrases from Step 2, but say this will be accomplished by sticking with the current output agreement.

Washington and Boris just fell for this lip service crap a few days ago. It would be funny if it wasn't for the impending economic collapse this will cause.


Keeping with oil KSA looks like it will start to sell oil in Yuan to China, makes sense they are there biggest customer. I doubt the US could get away with doing to KSA what they did to Libya when they started to trade oil in difference currencies.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... Sales.html
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