Welp, going to get a taste of gasoline pain over the next few days. 700-mile round trip down to Williamsburg, VA and back. Yaaay... Figured it was better than flying given how much time that'd take, but... we'll see.

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Gas prices have been low without a pandemic. Your chart proves that. It is Republicans who tie high prices to Biden and, when he was in office, Obama and gave credit for low prices during the last administration. Presidents have zero to do with prices paid by consumers. Especially on a global scale.

i'm not quite what your original point was then. you tied the low prices to the pandemic and then in your last post agreed that there have been low prices without a pandemic just to then point out that Republicans are tying the high prices to Biden and previously to Obama. when prices were increasing under Trump, and when in office, Bush, they were blamed for high prices by Democrats. no matter who is in office, when prices go up the opposing party will blame them. and when prices are low, the controlling party will want to claim credit.

you also claimed that Republicans wanting low prices somehow equates to wanting no one to travel because of a global pandemic. perhaps lower prices without a pandemic is not a party exclusive desire and not so absurd.

I was pointing out individual facts. Gas prices have been low under previous administrations, whether R or D. Gas prices were low when there was no global pandemic. The one point is that the president of the United States can not dictate gas prices. But, since one side believes they do, they also conveniently forget that gas prices were low under Obama.

then there was no reason to claim its absurd of the Republicans to want low prices that you tied to only exist because of the pandemic if prices can be low whether the administration is R or D in control. and no need to further claim that the desire for low prices meant that was somehow a desire for a global pandemic.

seems not just one side believes the president controls prices. it only seems it depends on if their preferred party is in favor.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-you-ask/

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEL ... id=US%3Aen

Here is a textbook example of what Biden will be blamed for. I can't speak for the Gulf of Mexico leases, but it seems to me that the "lack of industry interest" off of Alaska is very possible given the recent rhetoric from publicly-traded oil/gas execs, and the large investor/hedge fund class in NYC making big returns off this crisis and capital "discipline". I'm sure many companies are still paying off debts as well.

The API numbnut interviewed sounds like he took a page out of the OPEC+ playbook:

1) Publicly say you're here to support a stable market for consumers,
2) Hold back production for profit,
3) Blame other parties (environmentalists, "geopolitics", etc...) when consumers complain.

Also, isn't the biggest bottleneck refined products right now?

hashtagconfused wrote:

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

i'm not quite what your original point was then. you tied the low prices to the pandemic and then in your last post agreed that there have been low prices without a pandemic just to then point out that Republicans are tying the high prices to Biden and previously to Obama. when prices were increasing under Trump, and when in office, Bush, they were blamed for high prices by Democrats. no matter who is in office, when prices go up the opposing party will blame them. and when prices are low, the controlling party will want to claim credit.

you also claimed that Republicans wanting low prices somehow equates to wanting no one to travel because of a global pandemic. perhaps lower prices without a pandemic is not a party exclusive desire and not so absurd.

I was pointing out individual facts. Gas prices have been low under previous administrations, whether R or D. Gas prices were low when there was no global pandemic. The one point is that the president of the United States can not dictate gas prices. But, since one side believes they do, they also conveniently forget that gas prices were low under Obama.

then there was no reason to claim its absurd of the Republicans to want low prices that you tied to only exist because of the pandemic if prices can be low whether the administration is R or D in control. and no need to further claim that the desire for low prices meant that was somehow a desire for a global pandemic.

seems not just one side believes the president controls prices. it only seems it depends on if their preferred party is in favor.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-you-ask/

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

With oil trading under $70 a barrel but the price at the pump going up, this is corporate greed, plain and simple. Republicans will spin, spin, spin and the base will believe them but it has nothing at all to do with American political parties.

Oil hasn't been $70 in a long time. West Texas Crude closed at $106.80 today. We closed too many refineries and decided that we could rely on off shore sources (Russia and Europe) for what we lacked in capacity. Why did we close refineries?

Delta Airlines refinery in Philadelphia and Shell's large refinery in Louisiana were for sale for a long time and no offers cause they were losing money every day they operated. Until the past couple of months that is and now they are printing money.

Go buy a Prius plug in and stop supporting oil companies. You can laugh at the oil companies as you charge your ride from your roof top solar panels. Seriously.

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I was pointing out individual facts. Gas prices have been low under previous administrations, whether R or D. Gas prices were low when there was no global pandemic. The one point is that the president of the United States can not dictate gas prices. But, since one side believes they do, they also conveniently forget that gas prices were low under Obama.

then there was no reason to claim its absurd of the Republicans to want low prices that you tied to only exist because of the pandemic if prices can be low whether the administration is R or D in control. and no need to further claim that the desire for low prices meant that was somehow a desire for a global pandemic.

seems not just one side believes the president controls prices. it only seems it depends on if their preferred party is in favor.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-you-ask/

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

With oil trading under $70 a barrel but the price at the pump going up, this is corporate greed, plain and simple. Republicans will spin, spin, spin and the base will believe them but it has nothing at all to do with American political parties.

Well I can give Biden a pass on gasoline and oil but not our run away inflation. Or the clusterfk at the southern border. Biden has been a day late and a dollar short in every crisis so far. We could have been much better positioned in Ukraine if he had got off the ball sooner they knew about Russian movements for quite a while now. Same with COVID and the testing kits Omicrion had raced through the country before he got any handle on the tests.. Add to the all the money the democrats keep pumping into a red hot economy and the fed not reacting fast enough to cool it down. So now the fed is hiking interest rates in leaps and bounds to try and slow down the run away inflation totally freaking out the stock market . I lost 27k in my 401k just in April. If anyone who voted for Biden still thinks he and his administration are doing a good job they deserve all the pain at the pump and the grocery store.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Go buy a Prius plug in and stop supporting oil companies. You can laugh at the oil companies as you charge your ride from your roof top solar panels. Seriously.

Ever try to go off-roading in a Prius.

Electric Hummer or Jeep.
Those damn oil companies - don't they know we have to have the fuel to play in the woods or terrorize the streets?

Last night all I heard were crotch rockets tearing down I-90. Time to ban gasoline powered motorcycles and ATV's. I'm only half joking. If they drove electric ones, no one would hear them until they ran into something.

stratosphere wrote:

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

then there was no reason to claim its absurd of the Republicans to want low prices that you tied to only exist because of the pandemic if prices can be low whether the administration is R or D in control. and no need to further claim that the desire for low prices meant that was somehow a desire for a global pandemic.

seems not just one side believes the president controls prices. it only seems it depends on if their preferred party is in favor.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-you-ask/

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

With oil trading under $70 a barrel but the price at the pump going up, this is corporate greed, plain and simple. Republicans will spin, spin, spin and the base will believe them but it has nothing at all to do with American political parties.

Well I can give Biden a pass on gasoline and oil but not our run away inflation. Or the clusterfk at the southern border. Biden has been a day late and a dollar short in every crisis so far. We could have been much better positioned in Ukraine if he had got off the ball sooner they knew about Russian movements for quite a while now. Same with COVID and the testing kits Omicrion had raced through the country before he got any handle on the tests.. Add to the all the money the democrats keep pumping into a red hot economy and the fed not reacting fast enough to cool it down. So now the fed is hiking interest rates in leaps and bounds to try and slow down the run away inflation totally freaking out the stock market . I lost 27k in my 401k just in April. If anyone who voted for Biden still thinks he and his administration are doing a good job they deserve all the pain at the pump and the grocery store.

The "crisis at the Southern border" will be forgotten by Republicans if they win the mid-terms. Happens every time.
Russia? The funding to support Ukrainian forces were there but Zelenskyy had no dirt on Hunter Biden, so the previous administration withheld that funding.
Covid? It only infected like 10 people and will be over in just a few days. Or drink bleach. Or take a horse deworming medication.

Biden's fault, every single one. yup.

Maybe you should move your money to something less volatile. Talk to your financial planner. How is that Biden's fault that you didn't think about that? What goes up must come down.

$227.9 CAD per litre ($6.64 US per gallon) in Metro Vancouver as of tonight

It may get worse. Bloomberg had an article yesterday that talks about the effect of the US closing refineries for the past 20 years. It raises the issue of possible fuel shortages this summer. And once that word gets out, people will begin hoarding. Remember 70's gas lines and recently paper products?

The US Can't Make Enough Fuel and There's No Fix in Sight
A shrinking fleet of domestic refineries is producing a greater share of the world’s gasoline and diesel, setting the stage for a supply crisis.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eet-demand

It's not a shortage of oil. There is no way to increase the supply of refined products. Heaven help us if there is a major refinery fire, cyber attack or hurricane.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Heaven help us if there is a major refinery fire, cyber attack or hurricane.

If the last 3 years has taught me anything, one of those, if not all 3 will happen

seb146 wrote:

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

the poll in the link previously provided link refutes this statement.

ACDC8 wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Heaven help us if there is a major refinery fire, cyber attack or hurricane.

If the last 3 years has taught me anything, one of those, if not all 3 will happen

And 6 months ago the Governor of Michigan and her Attorney General wanted to shut down the pipeline suppling oil from Alberta and North Dakota to refineries in Ontario, Detroit and Toledo. Heaven help us from them too. Although once gas went beyond $4 per gallon they haven't been making too much noise on that front.

Just bought a new (to me) wagon for the horses, it cost £175 to brim the tank….no choice but a diesel for this so no electric option…

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

MohawkWeekend wrote:

It may get worse. Bloomberg had an article yesterday that talks about the effect of the US closing refineries for the past 20 years. It raises the issue of possible fuel shortages this summer. And once that word gets out, people will begin hoarding. Remember 70's gas lines and recently paper products?

The US Can't Make Enough Fuel and There's No Fix in Sight
A shrinking fleet of domestic refineries is producing a greater share of the world’s gasoline and diesel, setting the stage for a supply crisis.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eet-demand

It's not a shortage of oil. There is no way to increase the supply of refined products. Heaven help us if there is a major refinery fire, cyber attack or hurricane.

The question is why are there not more refineries? Market conditions? Environmentalists?

Four reasons actually and they are all tied together. No one will build a new refinery in the US due to extremely high capital costs, the profitability is intermittent, enviro's will fight you tooth and nail costing you a fortune and NIMBY's, and the fact that demand for your product will soon begin to decline marketably. Most major oil companies - BP, Exxon, Shell and Chevron have been selling or closing their refineries for the past 25 years to companies like Marathon, Tesoro, Valero, Husky and even Delta Airlines.

The refineries that have closed are either really old or small (say under 100,000 bbls per day capacity). The old ones owned by non-majors or hedge funds are not always well maintained and have had environmental issues - the Philadelphia Refinery that blew up a few years back and the ex-Hess Refinery in the Virgin Island which has had sever environmental problems.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Electric Hummer or Jeep.

And where would you charge such a vehicle in the middle of the woods, short of them building charging stations in the middle of nowhere.

AirKevin wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Electric Hummer or Jeep.

And where would you charge such a vehicle in the middle of the woods, short of them building charging stations in the middle of nowhere.

Right next to the gas station in the woods….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

233.9 CAD per litre as of tonight in Metro Vancouver - $6.81 US per gallon compared to $4.79 US per gallon right across the border

flipdewaf wrote:

Right next to the gas station in the woods….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know that's somewhat facetious, but... it's a legit question, I think.

You can bring fuel in your actual gas tank and then you can bring more fuel in reserve tanks; yes, they cost weight and space, but it's extra fuel regardless. Is it realistic with electric cars to bring extra batteries? I honestly don't know. And if you bring a generator, that needs fuel, too.

It's a question I've wondered about in a more mundane setting of a car running out of power on a road. How is that rectified? Does a service vehicle come by with a generator to pump up the battery a bit until it has enough power to limp to a fixed charging point?

cjg225 wrote:

flipdewaf wrote:

Right next to the gas station in the woods….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know that's somewhat facetious, but... it's a legit question, I think.

You can bring fuel in your actual gas tank and then you can bring more fuel in reserve tanks; yes, they cost weight and space, but it's extra fuel regardless. Is it realistic with electric cars to bring extra batteries? I honestly don't know. And if you bring a generator, that needs fuel, too.

It's a question I've wondered about in a more mundane setting of a car running out of power on a road. How is that rectified? Does a service vehicle come by with a generator to pump up the battery a bit until it has enough power to limp to a fixed charging point?

There are solutions and as times goes on, more such solutions will be there in lesser time -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vHuldVlpFA

pune wrote:

There are solutions and as times goes on, more such solutions will be there in lesser time -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vHuldVlpFA

Solar and wind would be good, but it's not always sunny or windy. So there has to be reasonable solutions for generating a charge that can actually charge up those batteries in a reasonable time to an amount enabling the car to get to a fixed charging point.

I could see this really hampering activity away from population centers.

What is happening now with fuel prices is IMO a harbinger of what will occur in the next decade. As demand for gasoline declines, more refineries will shut down. This will limit the supply of all liquid fossil fuels. Prices will rise a lot for operators of the remaining gasoline powered vehicles along with farm and construction equipment, ships, trains and airplanes.

Airlines for example are whistling past the graveyard hoping that the benevolent oil companies or governments pay for the construction of large sustainable jet fuel refineries that will supply affordable fuel. Hope is not a business plan.

The massive and now record high prices for motor fuels, especially diesel, with their affects on personal and general inflation from airline fares to food, will lead in part to a significant recession and likely in the USA a huge win by Republicans in this fall's elections. Where I live in northern NJ, regular gasoline is running from $3.40 to 3.70/gallon, diesel from 5.99 to 6.59/gallon. That is up $.50/gallon in 2 weeks. Then there is the bottleneck of refineries, from many closed down and not replaced, if some go down due to a power loss (like the large power outages in Texas the other and very hot day), breakdowns, fires, yet continuing demand, it will get very ugly. Some will panic if any hint of shortages, likely making supplies worse.

Keep your tank full and have at least a 5 gallon jerry can. I learned to drive when you could only buy gas on even or odd days matching your license plate number.

The real answer is to buy at least a plug in hybrid that can get maybe 20 or 30 miles on EV only. Lots of those around used.

We've literally got the highest gas prices in North America, and people are still driving like total idiots - mashing on the gas, slamming on the brakes at the last second, mashing on the gas, slamming on the brakes. Sheesh.

Guy across the street was complaining about gas prices and how its all Trudeau's "fault" and his cost of living is going through the roof - meanwhile he's standing beside his $70K Rubicon with an easy extra $20K of suspension and wheel/tire modifications. Like seriously dude?

2 buck a litre of fuel was inevitable, and its here to stay, don't understand how people are surprised at this lol

cjg225 wrote:

pune wrote:

There are solutions and as times goes on, more such solutions will be there in lesser time -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vHuldVlpFA

Solar and wind would be good, but it's not always sunny or windy. So there has to be reasonable solutions for generating a charge that can actually charge up those batteries in a reasonable time to an amount enabling the car to get to a fixed charging point.

I could see this really hampering activity away from population centers.

To an extent you are right, but there are more than enough renewable tools that could be used. One has to understand what is greenwashing and what is not, for e.g. the whole thing about hydrogen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPCurcK6l4s

ACDC8 wrote:

We've literally got the highest gas prices in North America, and people are still driving like total idiots - mashing on the gas, slamming on the brakes at the last second, mashing on the gas, slamming on the brakes. Sheesh.

Guy across the street was complaining about gas prices and how its all Trudeau's "fault" and his cost of living is going through the roof - meanwhile he's standing beside his $70K Rubicon with an easy extra $20K of suspension and wheel/tire modifications. Like seriously dude?

2 buck a litre of fuel was inevitable, and its here to stay, don't understand how people are surprised at this lol

Plus, every time I go the grocery store there's at least one idiot sitting in the driver's seat idling their engine for no reason.

The same thing happens in my condo complex all the time, and it's usually a vehicle with a loud/bad exhaust system so I have to listen to it for 5-10 minutes. I'm losing sympathy fast for the American public on this topic, and it looks like I may have to extend it northward...

SEAorPWM wrote:

Plus, every time I go the grocery store there's at least one idiot sitting in the driver's seat idling their engine for no reason.

And drive thrus - sit in the line, idling away for a $7 fancy coffee for half an hour when it would take you 5 minutes to go inside.

Humans I tell ya

What will cause people to change their habits? Not just cost but availability. In 1973, folks in North America dumped their gas hog cars as fast as they could for something with 4- cylinders when they weren't sure they could get gasoline..
Long lines, even-odd purchase days and limits on the amount of gallons you could buy at one time did the trick.

ACDC8 wrote:

$227.9 CAD per litre ($6.64 US per gallon) in Metro Vancouver as of tonight

We just hit 2.19 a Liter In North Bay Ontario... diesel is 2.48L
Also I looked back and Fuel oil ( For my furnace ) was at 1.09L in Jan when I put 650L in it, I called today its at 1.98L. Its a 900L tank and I go through about 3 tanks per winter on average, going to be hard to budget for all this if it gets any higher.
C

MohawkWeekend wrote:

What will cause people to change their habits? Not just cost but availability. In 1973, folks in North America dumped their gas hog cars as fast as they could for something with 4- cylinders when they weren't sure they could get gasoline..
Long lines, even-odd purchase days and limits on the amount of gallons you could buy at one time did the trick.

One kink to your plan Dr. Evil. The EVs that are going to save the world are sold out for the next year at least. If one could afford them. What needs to be built will not be built and that is more refineries. Who is going to invest in an industry politicians have stated they want out of business in a decade. Then same politicians wonder why OPEC tells them to go pound sand. This whole thing would be comical to watch if it wasn't effecting mine, my family, my friends, and my neighbors budgets. But hey, there is a group out there that thinks this is progress.

In these dire times, I order you watch "The Pentaverate" on NetFlix - Dr. Evil

I laughed so hard, I cried when I watched the first episode. Seriously, if you like Mike Myers humor it's a must

Back to the topic - not a fan of EV's at all but Hybrids and 4-cylinders are my choice.
And for pete's sake, would it kill people to slow down and drive the speed limit?

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Keep your tank full and have at least a 5 gallon jerry can. I learned to drive when you could only buy gas on even or odd days matching your license plate number.

The real answer is to buy at least a plug in hybrid that can get maybe 20 or 30 miles on EV only. Lots of those around used.

I remember those odd/even days and it makes me wonder about something if they were to return. What about people with vanity plates that just have letters and no numbers? Wasn't a thing back in 1973 but there's a lot of them now. I don't have one but just curious

I think they are just considered odd. For the day you can buy gas that is.

ACDC8 wrote:

Guy across the street was complaining about gas prices and how its all Trudeau's "fault" and his cost of living is going through the roof - meanwhile he's standing beside his $70K Rubicon with an easy extra $20K of suspension and wheel/tire modifications. Like seriously dude?

Gotta love those first-world problem. Can afford a 70k car but not gas.

ltbewr wrote:

The massive and now record high prices for motor fuels, especially diesel, with their affects on personal and general inflation from airline fares to food, will lead in part to a significant recession and likely in the USA a huge win by Republicans in this fall's elections. Where I live in northern NJ, regular gasoline is running from $3.40 to 3.70/gallon, diesel from 5.99 to 6.59/gallon. That is up $.50/gallon in 2 weeks. Then there is the bottleneck of refineries, from many closed down and not replaced, if some go down due to a power loss (like the large power outages in Texas the other and very hot day), breakdowns, fires, yet continuing demand, it will get very ugly. Some will panic if any hint of shortages, likely making supplies worse.

Yep, gotta love those people voting for GOP wanting a small government then complain about how government doesn't help them when gas are more expensive, there's shortage of things like infant formula, etc.

Oh, and I'll bet you 1 rubles that there will be a hurricane in the gulf in the summer which will be another excuse of gas price going up.

stratosphere wrote:

Well I can give Biden a pass on gasoline and oil but not our run away inflation. Or the clusterfk at the southern border. Biden has been a day late and a dollar short in every crisis so far. We could have been much better positioned in Ukraine if he had got off the ball sooner they knew about Russian movements for quite a while now. Same with COVID and the testing kits Omicrion had raced through the country before he got any handle on the tests.. Add to the all the money the democrats keep pumping into a red hot economy and the fed not reacting fast enough to cool it down. So now the fed is hiking interest rates in leaps and bounds to try and slow down the run away inflation totally freaking out the stock market . I lost 27k in my 401k just in April. If anyone who voted for Biden still thinks he and his administration are doing a good job they deserve all the pain at the pump and the grocery store.

Lol inflation? You mean the one that TFG started when he insist on holding rate low so he can have an inflated stock market? As usual shit started under a GOP admin, Dems took the blame and have to clean things up, people go back to GOP just for the same shit to happen again.

As for COVID - as if TFG was any better? No face mask for months, no bleach for months, hack we even got a toilet paper shortage!

Oh, and BTW what does you losing on 401k has to do with the govt? I thought as a "small" govt they should not interfere in the market and let capitalism runs its course? Or do you want the govt buy up everything and set prices? Isn't that, well, socialism?

seb146 wrote:

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

With oil trading under $70 a barrel but the price at the pump going up, this is corporate greed, plain and simple. Republicans will spin, spin, spin and the base will believe them but it has nothing at all to do with American political parties.

All the spin isn't going to help what will happen in this years mid terms and 2024.

Yep - we all need a dose of Mike Myers.

Its no different here, the political minions just point the finger at the same person they point for everything else they don't like - Prime Ministers, Premier's, etc.

"Its the fault of the Carbon Tax! Blah, blah, blah"

The problem is that the price of gas effects us in literally every aspect of our lives, its a lot more than just the extra cost of filling up our cars, so Governments do have a responsibility to figure out things to offset that cost. The easiest would be to reduce taxes as Alberta did, but now they're loosing about $100 million every month in lost revenue, money that is desperately needed. So, thats really not the best way to go about it either.

Here in BC, we're getting a $110 rebate from our car insurance (we don't have private insurance) and they're looking into the possibility of free transit for the coming months. Doesn't help much and doesn't help everyone, but until people finally learn how to adapt their lives to the inevitable, well, thats their problem. $2 a litre fuel has been on the horizon for years and it was coming - and its here to stay - lots of time to prepare, trade your big ass SUV in for something smaller and more fuel efficient as an example, learn to drive smarter, plan your trips better. Nope, convenience is the number one priority but too many people don't understand that convenience and lifestyle has a cost.

How many times have we been through this before? And its the same thing every time.

NIKV69 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

With oil trading under $70 a barrel but the price at the pump going up, this is corporate greed, plain and simple. Republicans will spin, spin, spin and the base will believe them but it has nothing at all to do with American political parties.

All the spin isn't going to help what will happen in this years mid terms and 2024.

The deficit is shrinking, unemployment is down, corporations are pulling in record profits. The Republican answer to this hellscape? CRT and groomers so vote for us racists!

EDIT:

We just had our primary Tuesday. Three women are running for governor. It was interesting to see the reasons three of the Republicans are running for governor:

CRT must stop being taught in elementary school
Boys should not be on girl's teams
Downtown Portland bad

Kristine Drazen even went so far as to say "elect me and I will replace Kate Brown's agency heads" which any Republican governor would do anyway. But, that is their entire plan for "fixing" Oregon. Meanwhile, because of "tax and spend" liberals, we are going to get refunds for the next two years because of budget surplus. California is running a surplus as well. Oh, those horrible liberals....

seb146 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Even during the Great Recession, which started under the GWB administration and went into the Obama administration, Democrats have been pointing out that the president has zero to do with gas prices.

With oil trading under $70 a barrel but the price at the pump going up, this is corporate greed, plain and simple. Republicans will spin, spin, spin and the base will believe them but it has nothing at all to do with American political parties.

All the spin isn't going to help what will happen in this years mid terms and 2024.

The deficit is shrinking, unemployment is down, corporations are pulling in record profits. The Republican answer to this hellscape? CRT and groomers so vote for us racists!

EDIT:

We just had our primary Tuesday. Three women are running for governor. It was interesting to see the reasons three of the Republicans are running for governor:

CRT must stop being taught in elementary school
Boys should not be on girl's teams
Downtown Portland bad

Kristine Drazen even went so far as to say "elect me and I will replace Kate Brown's agency heads" which any Republican governor would do anyway. But, that is their entire plan for "fixing" Oregon. Meanwhile, because of "tax and spend" liberals, we are going to get refunds for the next two years because of budget surplus. California is running a surplus as well. Oh, those horrible liberals....

You can blame corporations to a certain extent, however I believe Biden inherited an economy that was already pumped up by fiscal and monetary support. Unemployment was comparably low and wage growth was very steady. Instead of waiting for the economy to cool somewhat, he introduced additional stimulus bills which are now overheating the economy and which is why inflation (driven by energy prices) is so high.

DTVG wrote:

seb146 wrote:

NIKV69 wrote:

All the spin isn't going to help what will happen in this years mid terms and 2024.

The deficit is shrinking, unemployment is down, corporations are pulling in record profits. The Republican answer to this hellscape? CRT and groomers so vote for us racists!

EDIT:

We just had our primary Tuesday. Three women are running for governor. It was interesting to see the reasons three of the Republicans are running for governor:

CRT must stop being taught in elementary school
Boys should not be on girl's teams
Downtown Portland bad

Kristine Drazen even went so far as to say "elect me and I will replace Kate Brown's agency heads" which any Republican governor would do anyway. But, that is their entire plan for "fixing" Oregon. Meanwhile, because of "tax and spend" liberals, we are going to get refunds for the next two years because of budget surplus. California is running a surplus as well. Oh, those horrible liberals....

You can blame corporations to a certain extent, however I believe Biden inherited an economy that was already pumped up by fiscal and monetary support. Unemployment was comparably low and wage growth was very steady. Instead of waiting for the economy to cool somewhat, he introduced additional stimulus bills which are now overheating the economy and which is why inflation (driven by energy prices) is so high.

There is a difference, though. We have had red hot economies in the past where everyone wanted everything now compared to the economy during a global pandemic where people found they could actually set their own salary and make more on their own.

Oil companies are showing record profits again this quarter.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... 22-profits
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... -the-pump/
https://www.businessinsider.com/gas-pri ... rts-2022-5

So, "but energy inflation!!!" argument is invalid.

We The People NEEDED additional payments during the height of the pandemic because corporations were cutting staff. Those "stimulus payments" stopped long ago. The economy was already tepid when those stimulus payments stopped. Or are you talking about extra payments that families with children get or people drowning in student loans have some of their loans forgiven so they can spend more?

I do believe oil companies are knowingly limiting supply but they are also showing record profits because they massively limited capital expenditures after the oil price crash in 2014 and in 2020 due to Covid. They will have to ramp up capital expenditures in the future. However regulations and the climate discussions do limit their appetite.

Regarding stimulus I was talking about the Rescue Plan and especially the Infrastructure bill and components of the Build Back Better act. I'm not saying that there aren't people who needed support, but it can be assumed that a certain part of the Rescue Plan went to people who didn't really need the money. This additional consumption as well as the infrastructure bill are not helpful in lowering inflation, especially given that supply chain issues have persisted for some time and commodity prices are already very high.

cjg225 wrote:

pune wrote:

There are solutions and as time goes on, more such solutions will be there in lesser time -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vHuldVlpFA

Solar and wind would be good, but it's not always sunny or windy. So there have to be reasonable solutions for generating a charge that can actually charge up those batteries in a reasonable time to an amount enabling the car to get to a fixed charging point.

I could see this really hampering activity away from population centers.

There is another point, you are expecting that the technology will remain at a stand-still. History tells us otherwise -

https://www.solarpowerauthority.com/a-h ... lar-cells/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... on_battery

So there will be development all along both in generation as well as storage and there is more than enough incentive for companies to innovate. If John B. Goodenough's patents were used then instead of keeping it in the patent portfolio for 40 years, we probably would have been far ahead of where we are. Even if GM had done the right thing and not crushed EV1 who knows what the world would have been

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

DTVG wrote:

I do believe oil companies are knowingly limiting supply but they are also showing record profits because they massively limited capital expenditures after the oil price crash in 2014 and in 2020 due to Covid. They will have to ramp up capital expenditures in the future. However regulations and the climate discussions do limit their appetite.

Regarding stimulus I was talking about the Rescue Plan and especially the Infrastructure bill and components of the Build Back Better act. I'm not saying that there aren't people who needed support, but it can be assumed that a certain part of the Rescue Plan went to people who didn't really need the money. This additional consumption as well as the infrastructure bill are not helpful in lowering inflation, especially given that supply chain issues have persisted for some time and commodity prices are already very high.

The "Rescue Plan" was abused by those corporations who didn't need it. And by churches who didn't need it. We have already seen many instances of fraud by these "too big to fail" companies. BBB would have helped, but Republicans said no one needs help. That's not what We The People are saying, but Republicans obviously know best

seb146 wrote:

DTVG wrote:

seb146 wrote:

The deficit is shrinking, unemployment is down, corporations are pulling in record profits. The Republican answer to this hellscape? CRT and groomers so vote for us racists!

EDIT:

We just had our primary Tuesday. Three women are running for governor. It was interesting to see the reasons three of the Republicans are running for governor:

CRT must stop being taught in elementary school
Boys should not be on girl's teams
Downtown Portland bad

Kristine Drazen even went so far as to say "elect me and I will replace Kate Brown's agency heads" which any Republican governor would do anyway. But, that is their entire plan for "fixing" Oregon. Meanwhile, because of "tax and spend" liberals, we are going to get refunds for the next two years because of budget surplus. California is running a surplus as well. Oh, those horrible liberals....

You can blame corporations to a certain extent, however I believe Biden inherited an economy that was already pumped up by fiscal and monetary support. Unemployment was comparably low and wage growth was very steady. Instead of waiting for the economy to cool somewhat, he introduced additional stimulus bills which are now overheating the economy and which is why inflation (driven by energy prices) is so high.

There is a difference, though. We have had red hot economies in the past where everyone wanted everything now compared to the economy during a global pandemic where people found they could actually set their own salary and make more on their own.

Oil companies are showing record profits again this quarter.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... 22-profits
https://www.americanprogress.org/articl ... -the-pump/
https://www.businessinsider.com/gas-pri ... rts-2022-5

So, "but energy inflation!!!" argument is invalid.

We The People NEEDED additional payments during the height of the pandemic because corporations were cutting staff. Those "stimulus payments" stopped long ago. The economy was already tepid when those stimulus payments stopped. Or are you talking about extra payments that families with children get or people drowning in student loans have some of their loans forgiven so they can spend more?

Now that you brought it up. If Biden forgives all the student loan debt you are going to have a lot of pissed off people me included. These people signed on the dotted line they knew what they were getting into they own it. I worked two jobs to pay my student loan off. By loan forgiveness you also are not addressing the root cause which started when the federal government started backing loans which gave colleges free reign to raise prices out of sight. Loan forgiveness is primarily helping people who are or will have the ability to make far greater salaries due to their higher education than the general public whos tax dollars will be paying for it. Biden is looking at people making 125k or less for forgiveness? if you are making 125k you can pay off a damn loan. This is what I love about liberals personal responsibility never ever comes into play in their world from crime to student loans it's always someone else's fault. If he does wind up doing debt forgiveness he better address the root causes or the next group of students will expect the same thing.

Aesma wrote:

I wonder if OPEC and oil companies aren't shooting themselves in the foot, by forcing us to accelerate our move towards EVs. Sure there isn't enough supply of EVs, but many people will just wait before they replace their car, and when they do, they will remember what happened.

The big thing is cost. First step is get the EVs as profitable for the automakers as an internal combustion engine. That means better manufacturing processes, from a cost standpoint. After that, cost savings can go to the end-buyer, but automobiles are too large an industry for "land grab" strategies to work anymore. Only those expensive Teslas seem to be at a reasonable profit margin. To make EVs more common, the battery costs must drop significantly. The articles 30% cost savings is enough to make the high end EV market viable, in my opinion. Another set of cost savings is required to bring this to family's SUVs/Minivans. The last step will be the low cost cars. For those battery manufacturing costs must drop a startling amount. In particular as batteries have to be periodically replaced.
https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/bmws- ... n-profits/

The oil companies have no choice. Investors demand a rate of return. For too long fracking wasn't profitable enough. Besides, if they produce enough oil, the bottleneck just becomes refineries where expansion seems to have been limited by regulation and now by the long term prospects of the industry. I don't think anyone is looking at the 20 year return on oil or refining anymore. Timelines have shrunk which means higher profits must be expected to invest.

Which just leads to your point. This is a self fulfilling prophecy. Hopefully we build enough nuclear plants for charging the EVs to avoid the carbon emissions. I am of the opinion solar and wind do not provide the power when people will charge EVs.

Short term, people will drive less and... lash out politically on those perceived to be driving their high costs.
From an aviation perspective, this will hurt the resale values of older aircraft which combined with higher interest rates is going to create an interesting environment.

Those higher interest rates will slow the replacement cycle on automobiles as that makes future cost savings less important. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber