AirKevin wrote:

With the charger, you just hook it up to electricity and forget about it. Where do they think the fuel is going to come from.

They don't think, they just want to see the chargers gone.

In these trying times of high gasoline prices, let's give a hand to Shell for barely making an 11.5 billion dollar profit.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-re ... 17220.html

Shell posted record results on Thursday, with a $11.5 billion second-quarter profit smashing the mark it set only three months ago, lifted by strong gas trading and a tripling of refining profit.

The company also announced a $6 billion share buyback programme for the current quarter but did not raise its dividend of 25 cents per share. It said shareholder returns would remain "in excess of 30% of cash flow from operating activities".

Seems those gasoline prices are awfully inflated still over the oil prices.

Refining profit margins tripled in the quarter to $28 a barrel.

What goes up in the refining business usually goes right back down. It's already started.

"Oil refining margins collapse in Asia, cheaper crude needed"
LAUNCESTON, Australia, July 26 (Reuters) - Refining margins in Asia have collapsed in recent weeks, leaving refiners on the precipice of making losses on every barrel of crude oil processed.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodi ... 022-07-26/

casinterest wrote:

In these trying times of high gasoline prices, let's give a hand to Shell for barely making an 11.5 billion dollar profit.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-re ... 17220.html

Shell posted record results on Thursday, with a $11.5 billion second-quarter profit smashing the mark it set only three months ago, lifted by strong gas trading and a tripling of refining profit.

The company also announced a $6 billion share buyback programme for the current quarter but did not raise its dividend of 25 cents per share. It said shareholder returns would remain "in excess of 30% of cash flow from operating activities".

Seems those gasoline prices are awfully inflated still over the oil prices.

Refining profit margins tripled in the quarter to $28 a barrel.

Anytime I read about a corporation attempting another stock buyback, I want to punch the CEO in the nuts repeatedly and/or slit their throat for the harm buybacks have on the economy.

LittleFokker wrote:

casinterest wrote:

In these trying times of high gasoline prices, let's give a hand to Shell for barely making an 11.5 billion dollar profit.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-re ... 17220.html

Shell posted record results on Thursday, with a $11.5 billion second-quarter profit smashing the mark it set only three months ago, lifted by strong gas trading and a tripling of refining profit.

The company also announced a $6 billion share buyback programme for the current quarter but did not raise its dividend of 25 cents per share. It said shareholder returns would remain "in excess of 30% of cash flow from operating activities".

Seems those gasoline prices are awfully inflated still over the oil prices.

Refining profit margins tripled in the quarter to $28 a barrel.

Anytime I read about a corporation attempting another stock buyback, I want to punch the CEO in the nuts repeatedly and/or slit their throat for the harm buybacks have on the economy.

"But... it's business!"

- Every NYC investor douche who is also freaking out over inflation

EDIT: May I join in the beatings?

Same thing with the gas companies here. Their profits have exploded from the gas station itself all the way up to the oil companies. But they're in good company, grocery chains here have doubled their price increases compared to their higher operating costs over the last few months and their stocks are drowning in record profits while households literally go hungry.

So basically, we're paying artificially inflated prices on top of artificially inflated prices all in the name of profit.

But, but, but its all Trudeau's fault

ACDC8 wrote:

Same thing with the gas companies here. Their profits have exploded from the gas station itself all the way up to the oil companies. But they're in good company, grocery chains here have doubled their price increases compared to their higher operating costs over the last few months and their stocks are drowning in record profits while households literally go hungry.

So basically, we're paying artificially inflated prices on top of artificially inflated prices all in the name of profit.

But, but, but its all Trudeau's fault

...and some say we've evolved to a point where profiteering off of negative world events (wars, etc...) doesn't happen anymore.

I agree - a one time special dividend would be better than buybacks.

Because these times aren't going to last. Wasn't there a thread on this site talking about how trillions of dollars in fossil fuel investments will need to be written off next decade?

LittleFokker wrote:

casinterest wrote:

In these trying times of high gasoline prices, let's give a hand to Shell for barely making an 11.5 billion dollar profit.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-re ... 17220.html

Shell posted record results on Thursday, with a $11.5 billion second-quarter profit smashing the mark it set only three months ago, lifted by strong gas trading and a tripling of refining profit.

The company also announced a $6 billion share buyback programme for the current quarter but did not raise its dividend of 25 cents per share. It said shareholder returns would remain "in excess of 30% of cash flow from operating activities".

Seems those gasoline prices are awfully inflated still over the oil prices.

Refining profit margins tripled in the quarter to $28 a barrel.

Anytime I read about a corporation attempting another stock buyback, I want to punch the CEO in the nuts repeatedly and/or slit their throat for the harm buybacks have on the economy.

From 1982 when they made changes to the SEC to today, you would have lot of anger mate.

Exxon, Chevron, and Shell all record record profits. Again

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/29/busi ... rofit.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... on-chevron
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -fuel-cost

MohawkWeekend wrote:

I agree - a one time special dividend would be better than buybacks.

Because these times aren't going to last. Wasn't there a thread on this site talking about how trillions of dollars in fossil fuel investments will need to be written off next decade?

A buyback is basically equivalent to a dividend, but it is not taxed from shareholders as regular income. It is taxed, if ever, as capital gains when the shareholder sells. Which is a lower rate. A buyback divides the same company value across fewer shares, making each share more valuable by the exact amount of the “special dividend.” If you want to realize that value, just sell some shares. If not, don’t.

seb146 wrote:

Exxon, Chevron, and Shell all record record profits. Again

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/29/busi ... rofit.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... on-chevron
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -fuel-cost

As expected. If the shareholders demanding these huge returns are the ones also freaking over inflation, then maybe they should either stop worrying about inflation or play in traffic (so they can start ramping up production).

Aesma wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Why should people be subsidized in their choice of vehicle? Why is governments deciding who gets “free” transportation and others don’t. Small government means government doesn’t take from some citizens to give to others.

Because ICE cars don't pay for the pollution they emit. So the next best thing is to incentivise not using ICE cars. If you would prefer the pollution was taxed, I'm all for it.

A tax would be far more honest, which is why governments won’t do it. $2US per gallon, problem solved. Also, rid of the DC clown show

LittleFokker wrote:

casinterest wrote:

In these trying times of high gasoline prices, let's give a hand to Shell for barely making an 11.5 billion dollar profit.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-re ... 17220.html

Shell posted record results on Thursday, with a $11.5 billion second-quarter profit smashing the mark it set only three months ago, lifted by strong gas trading and a tripling of refining profit.

The company also announced a $6 billion share buyback programme for the current quarter but did not raise its dividend of 25 cents per share. It said shareholder returns would remain "in excess of 30% of cash flow from operating activities".

Seems those gasoline prices are awfully inflated still over the oil prices.

Refining profit margins tripled in the quarter to $28 a barrel.

Anytime I read about a corporation attempting another stock buyback, I want to punch the CEO in the nuts repeatedly and/or slit their throat for the harm buybacks have on the economy.

Yes, because putting profits back in the business owners’ pockets is so harmful. IT. IS. THEY. BOUGHT. STOCK.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

LittleFokker wrote:

casinterest wrote:

In these trying times of high gasoline prices, let's give a hand to Shell for barely making an 11.5 billion dollar profit.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shell-re ... 17220.html





Seems those gasoline prices are awfully inflated still over the oil prices.

Anytime I read about a corporation attempting another stock buyback, I want to punch the CEO in the nuts repeatedly and/or slit their throat for the harm buybacks have on the economy.

Yes, because putting profits back in the business owners’ pockets is so harmful. IT. IS. THEY. BOUGHT. STOCK.

Then don't complain about high gas prices or inflation.

Buybacks should be illegal.

IMO there is a 3 reasons why they buy back stock vs special dividends. First many C-suiters compensation package is based on the performance of the stock. A buy back increases the stock prices so up goes their pay. Win number 2 - their subsidized options are worth more as the their option purchase price is now way less than the new stock price, and Win 3 when they sell , their gains are tax as capital gains which is much lower than normal income.

And insiders are selling stock all the time because they keep getting it from the compensation committees.. You'll see the following statement in the press release - CEO Smith sold 800,000 shares today to balance his portfolio.
From Goggle -
Aug 28, 2020 — Between 2014 and 2019, American's Parker got more than $150 million in cash through the sale of 3.6 million shares of American Airlines stock

Normal shareholders only get the benefit of the stock buy back when they sell. And if they are widows and orphans, they hold until it's too late.

A special dividend would be cash which is what the 99% live on. Not tax advantaged and manipulated capital gains and options by the 1%.

A thousand shares of American Airlines in 2018 were worth around $51,000
A thousand shares of American Airlines in 2022 are worth around $13,000

How'd those buybacks work for the poor fools who held the stock?

SEAorPWM wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

LittleFokker wrote:

Anytime I read about a corporation attempting another stock buyback, I want to punch the CEO in the nuts repeatedly and/or slit their throat for the harm buybacks have on the economy.

Yes, because putting profits back in the business owners’ pockets is so harmful. IT. IS. THEY. BOUGHT. STOCK.

Then don't complain about high gas prices or inflation.

I’m not complaining, the prices are the result of market forces and government actions restricting supply. Them’s the breaks.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Yes, because putting profits back in the business owners’ pockets is so harmful. IT. IS. THEY. BOUGHT. STOCK.

Then don't complain about high gas prices or inflation.

I’m not complaining, the prices are the result of market forces and government actions restricting supply. Them’s the breaks.

The part about "government actions restricting supply" was a direct result of the previous administration

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKBN22C1V4
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/0 ... ion-161368

Which is somehow Biden's fault. Oh, yeah

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-07-29/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/29/busi ... rofit.html

More record profits from oil companies. There are links in this thread that show the historic price of oil per barrel vs price at the pump. The price per barrel now would average under $4 but Biden or something, amiright?

The historic price means nothing to today’s price, there’s no iron law relating the two. Different crack spreads equals different prices. Keep talking down oil industry as a having no future you get no investment in expensive things like exploration, pipelines, refineries—all require 50 year time horizons.

Very different contexts between Trump and Biden begging Saudis.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

The historic price means nothing to today’s price, there’s no iron law relating the two. Different crack spreads equals different prices. Keep talking down oil industry as a having no future you get no investment in expensive things like exploration, pipelines, refineries—all require 50 year time horizons.

Very different contexts between Trump and Biden begging Saudis.

Biden wouldn't be meeting with the Saudis to increase production if the former guy hadn't gone to ask them to cut production. So, yeah, totally the former guy's fault. And Republicans talk about historic events and prices as it is relevant today, so why should this be different?

Anyway, the price per barrel has gone down but the price at the pump still remains high. As usual, the price per barrel can sink like a rock but the price at the pump will remain and oil companies will laugh all the way to the bank. Oil companies know they have a finite resource. They are raking in as much profit as they can. That's great for them and a pure capitalist society. But, for the next generation and beyond, it will not help them at all. But who cares about the future, right? He who dies with the most toys wins.

seb146 wrote:

As usual, the price per barrel can sink like a rock but the price at the pump will remain and oil companies will laugh all the way to the bank

Asymmetric pricing - prices shoot up like a rocket but fall like a feather.

Looks like Biden's smooching trip isn't going to help, and the US GOP's favorite rich Gulf buddies will continue sucking up to Putin:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/opec-sec ... 29940.html

Who would have thought...

It's not about sucking up. It's strategy, if they shun Russia, they know they're next, it's not like they're great democracies.

In practice, they're next anyway, if we manage to replace oil by something else.

Aesma wrote:

It's not about sucking up. It's strategy, if they shun Russia, they know they're next, it's not like they're great democracies.

In practice, they're next anyway, if we manage to replace oil by something else.

That's a big *if* unless fusion becomes feasible. What a mess...

Perfect timing on a CNN article that explains IMO why buybacks should be made illegal again (as they were pre-1982)-
"The buyback bogeyman is back. How worried should we be?"

Excerpt that supports my earlier post - "Last year, companies in the S&P 500 repurchased a record $882 billion of their own shares. Executives sell more stock in the eight days following a buyback announcement from their companies than at any other time, according to SEC data."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/03/investin ... index.html

Buybacks are much less common here in France, although apparently oil major TotalEnergies will do one. I don't have a firm opinion about them, but clearly doing buybacks while having CEO's income tied to share performance is problematic.

Well here I am 5 months after posting and we are currently at $1.89L in my area. Over five months it was as high as $2.23 and a low of $1.79 just a few weeks ago. My area is notoriously high all the time then all other surrounding areas. I gave up on the why.

Aesma wrote:

Buybacks are much less common here in France, although apparently oil major TotalEnergies will do one. I don't have a firm opinion about them, but clearly doing buybacks while having CEO's income tied to share performance is problematic.

can buybacks be viewed as repaying a loan? rather than taking out loans, companies issue an IPO or additional shares for funding operations/expansion and can then choose to "pay it back" on their own terms when they feel its most advantageous for the company. rather than monthly loan payments, they pay it back when they see fit. if the shares are bought back at the same price or lower, its a win for the company and any investors, including 401Ks that hold the stock.

perhaps limits should be put on insider purchases/sells during a certain window after a buyback.

Classa64 wrote:

Well here I am 5 months after posting and we are currently at $1.89L in my area. Over five months it was as high as $2.23 and a low of $1.79 just a few weeks ago. My area is notoriously high all the time then all other surrounding areas. I gave up on the why.

Why is ~US$2 per L of gasoline considered expensive in the US?

Classa64 wrote:

Well here I am 5 months after posting and we are currently at $1.89L in my area. Over five months it was as high as $2.23 and a low of $1.79 just a few weeks ago. My area is notoriously high all the time then all other surrounding areas. I gave up on the why.

Took like 2 weeks to get from about $1.50/L to $2.40/L here and about 3 months to go back from $2.40/L down to $1.90/L - meanwhile, gas companies are raking in profits hand over fist and grocery chains like Loblaws are milking the situation even more by doubling their price increases compared to the increase in their costs - gotta love Canada

c933103 wrote:

Why is ~US$2 per L of gasoline considered expensive in the US?

The poster is in Ontario, Canada. $2.00/L is high because it normally sells between $1.00 to $1.50/L so that would cost an extra $25-$50 to fill up a small car and it also has a direct effect on everything else we purchase such as groceries which have been seeing prices double in some cases because of the higher transportation costs. Drastic and sudden changes like this have a very negative effect on household budgets.

c933103 wrote:

Classa64 wrote:

Well here I am 5 months after posting and we are currently at $1.89L in my area. Over five months it was as high as $2.23 and a low of $1.79 just a few weeks ago. My area is notoriously high all the time then all other surrounding areas. I gave up on the why.

Why is ~US$2 per L of gasoline considered expensive in the US?

Like ACDC8 said I am in Canada, also that's 1.89 per/L in CDN funds, works out to roughly 7.18 a gallon CDN. Gas prices in Canada have risen approx 55% since 2021... that's a huge hit when my income has not gone up since,

And ya grocery prices are insane

C,

Took prices a good month to trickle down from 196.9 to 182.9 and tonight, it jumped back up to 196.9 in one snap.

I'm guessing that the oil companies are in position of all Infinity Stones?

Wonder what the excuse is this time? "Maintenance"? "Hurricane season"? "Trudeau"?

ACDC8 wrote:

Took prices a good month to trickle down from 196.9 to 182.9 and tonight, it jumped back up to 196.9 in one snap.

I'm guessing that the oil companies are in position of all Infinity Stones?

Wonder what the excuse is this time? "Maintenance"? "Hurricane season"? "Trudeau"?

Answer: "Business".

In all honesty, I wonder how much of the recent drop was profit-taking and typical Wall Street trader hive-mind/sheep behavior.

These same idiots are in a celebratory mode now that inflation appears to be "cooling". What they don't seem to get (or want to get) is their exuberance with high oil prices is one of the major drivers of the inflationary pressure. The price per barrel will probably blow past 100 USD again and scary inflation headlines and numbers will follow, traders will then react (read panic) and the price will fall as the oil price cycle continues.

All I can think of is a dog chasing its tail.

This came out of nowhere -
"Energy Dept. warns refiners it may take ‘extraordinary measures’ on fuel exports". https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

With the large difference in prices between Europe and the US, fuel refined in the States is being exported in large amounts to Europe. If those exports are curtailed, prices would remain low here but skyrocket in Europe. Also the release of 1 million barrels a day of crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is ending October 1st. (It appears we've drained half of it). Both of these events will cause prices to rise here and overseas.,

And on Weather.com tonight, they are tracking 2 disturbances for possible development into storms.

"Fire at Biggest US Midwest Refinery Threatens Fuel Supplies".
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fire-big ... 00197.html

Not really surprising - refineries catch fire. But following the news of shortages in the Northeast, a long shut down will not be good.
If you are bored, read the comments following the story. Heaven help us.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

This came out of nowhere -
"Energy Dept. warns refiners it may take ‘extraordinary measures’ on fuel exports". https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

With the large difference in prices between Europe and the US, fuel refined in the States is being exported in large amounts to Europe. If those exports are curtailed, prices would remain low here but skyrocket in Europe. Also the release of 1 million barrels a day of crude oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve is ending October 1st. (It appears we've drained half of it). Both of these events will cause prices to rise here and overseas.,

And on Weather.com tonight, they are tracking 2 disturbances for possible development into storms.

And then throw in this, a guaranteed recession-starter brought to you by your gay-beheading friends in OPEC:

https://m.investing.com/news/commoditie ... rs-2881420

Warren Buffet must be happy at least...

Buffet is killing it with Occidental Petroleum and Chevron stock

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Buffet is killing it with Occidental Petroleum and Chevron stock

Then Wall Street should quit freaking out about inflation

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/P ... -High.html

Here comes the production increases, right as the demand falls .

Crude oil production in the Permian Basin is set to hit a record high next month, adding 66,000 bpd from September to 5.413 million bpd, the Energy Information Administration said in its latest Drilling Productivity Report.

Total oil production in the Lower 48 is seen adding 132,000 bpd from this month to next, to reach a total of 9.115 million bpd, the EIA also noted in its report. All plays will see additions in output in October and none will see a decline, with only Haynesville’s output rate remaining unchanged.

The latest factual data from the EIA shows U.S. total oil production rose to the highest since April 2020 in June, to 11.8 million bpd. That’s still below the record-high rate of production U.S. drillers had reached right before the pandemic struck but a significant recovery from the pandemic collapse in production.

casinterest wrote:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Permian-Oil-Production-Is-Set-To-Hit-A-Record-High.html

Here comes the production increases, right as the demand falls .

Crude oil production in the Permian Basin is set to hit a record high next month, adding 66,000 bpd from September to 5.413 million bpd, the Energy Information Administration said in its latest Drilling Productivity Report.

Total oil production in the Lower 48 is seen adding 132,000 bpd from this month to next, to reach a total of 9.115 million bpd, the EIA also noted in its report. All plays will see additions in output in October and none will see a decline, with only Haynesville’s output rate remaining unchanged.

The latest factual data from the EIA shows U.S. total oil production rose to the highest since April 2020 in June, to 11.8 million bpd. That’s still below the record-high rate of production U.S. drillers had reached right before the pandemic struck but a significant recovery from the pandemic collapse in production.

Interesting to think Texas oil production could help Biden and the Dems in November.

Tugg

Just remember the Administration is releasing 1 million barrels a day of strategic reserve oil until the end of this month. This bought the oil industry time to ramp up production. See what happens when we work together?

However looking at the numbers , industry won't quite match the 1 mm bbl/day barrels from the SPR. Plus I believe some refiners are required to replace the barrels they borrowed from the SPR so demand could go up just as supply is reduced.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Just remember the Administration is releasing 1 million barrels a day of strategic reserve oil until the end of this month. This bought the oil industry time to ramp up production. See what happens when we work together?

However looking at the numbers , industry won't quite match the 1 mm bbl/day barrels from the SPR. Plus I believe some refiners are required to replace the barrels they borrowed from the SPR so demand could go up just as supply is reduced.

The industry just has to catch the leading edge.




The US is producing over a million more barrels than last fall, and that was before delta hit.


Crude oil production (million barrels per day)more production data ›
Year ago Four-week averages
09/03/21 09/02/22
U.S. production 11.075 12.075


https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/crude.php

"Gas prices could spike again this winter, Yellen warns"

https://thehill.com/regulation/business ... len-warns/

Appears that European demand for oil to replace Russian oil and gas will cause world prices to rise. The US will need to be shipping some crude and LNG to Europe to help get them thru this. Not sure we can count on OPEC.

We need a warm winter.

Fire crews responding to incident at BP refinery in Oregon, Ohio Tuesday
https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local ... 694f9eaadf

Appears to be a large explosion and then fire. At least 2 dead. Refinery provides 155,000 barrels a day of capacity so not a small refinery.

https://oilprice.com/

Oil is under 80 and Gasoline is under 2.40 ( wholesale).

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/23/business ... index.html

Of course it might be the potential for a recession doing it though.

Saudis and Russians are gonna fix low prices

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/05 ... ion-stocks

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Saudis and Russians are gonna fix low prices

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/05 ... ion-stocks

But... OPEC said its mission is to balance the market

In all honesty, the west needs to really start re-evaluating its relationship with the KSA. It should have begun in the US in the 70s, but money talks.

SEAorPWM wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Saudis and Russians are gonna fix low prices

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/05 ... ion-stocks

But... OPEC said its mission is to balance the market

It is a mission. To drive profits. But it will also help drive innovation, and drilling elsewhere.

casinterest wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Saudis and Russians are gonna fix low prices

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/05 ... ion-stocks

But... OPEC said its mission is to balance the market

It is a mission. To drive profits. But it will also help drive innovation, and drilling elsewhere.

Yeah, if Wall Street and politics allow it.

The US's message regarding democracy vs. autocracy seems to always take a back seat when your pickup-driving beer gut crowd starts complaining about gas prices.

One side wants to subsidize inefficient driving habits, while the other only blames environmental regulations fir lack of domestic drilling. Meanwhile, we continue to beg a cartel of autocratic dictatorships for energy supplies, while our European NATO members face a cold winter next year.

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

But... OPEC said its mission is to balance the market

It is a mission. To drive profits. But it will also help drive innovation, and drilling elsewhere.

Yeah, if Wall Street and politics allow it.

The US's message regarding democracy vs. autocracy seems to always take a back seat when your pickup-driving beer gut crowd starts complaining about gas prices.

One side wants to subsidize inefficient driving habits, while the other only blames environmental regulations fir lack of domestic drilling. Meanwhile, we continue to beg a cartel of autocratic dictatorships for energy supplies, while our European NATO members face a cold winter next year.

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Always has been and always will be. As is evidenced elsewhere, the real story here is that OPEC sees the writing on the wall. Electric vehicles are coming, and they want their squeeze of profits from everyone.
But the other side of the story is that Electric vehicles are already here, and demand is already tepid due to the economy. Prices are not spiking much yet on this news.