FlapOperator wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

In this fever dream, so would potentially the Japanese and Koreans, who have to be assessing US security guarantees and who are energy dependent on the ME.

I have no idea in what universe one could entertain Japan/ROK aligning permanently with the PRC.

One in which the PRC is controlling the sea lanes of ME crude to Far East markets, and where American security guarantees are next to worthless.

Issues with security guarantees in the ME are of the GCC's own making. Similar issues do not exist for JP/ROK.

Aaron747 wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

I have no idea in what universe one could entertain Japan/ROK aligning permanently with the PRC.

One in which the PRC is controlling the sea lanes of ME crude to Far East markets, and where American security guarantees are next to worthless.

Issues with security guarantees in the ME are of the GCC's own making. Similar issues do not exist for JP/ROK.

Is your assessment that both ROK and Japanese security doesn't have American dependencies?

FlapOperator wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

FlapOperator wrote:

One in which the PRC is controlling the sea lanes of ME crude to Far East markets, and where American security guarantees are next to worthless.

Issues with security guarantees in the ME are of the GCC's own making. Similar issues do not exist for JP/ROK.

Is your assessment that both ROK and Japanese security doesn't have American dependencies?

Negative. Re-read if necessary. The GCC heavily influenced the conditions that led to the degradation of American security guarantees in their region. Japan and ROK have not fostered like conditions, not even remotely.

Just as I suspected, in order to give us some "relief", our Provincial Government in BC is giving us a $110 rebate from the insurance money we've been paying into our insurance autocracy:

https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/363973 ... gas-prices

Prices may be about to jump as Europe faces a product (diesel and fuel oil) shortage and US supplies get sent east. Jet fuel will be next. Diesel is now over $4.10 gallon pre tax NY Harbor
"Diesel Crisis In Europe Worsens As Austrian Energy Giant Limits Sales". https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... Sales.html

excerpt - "in a rare reversal of normal trade flows, New York is sending two diesel cargoes to Europe -- which relies on Russia for about a third of its diesel needs -- even as regional inventories are at multiyear lows and prices hover close to record highs."

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Prices may be about to jump as Europe faces a product (diesel and fuel oil) shortage and US supplies get sent east. Jet fuel will be next. Diesel is now over $4.10 gallon pre tax NY Harbor
"Diesel Crisis In Europe Worsens As Austrian Energy Giant Limits Sales". https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... Sales.html

excerpt - "in a rare reversal of normal trade flows, New York is sending two diesel cargoes to Europe -- which relies on Russia for about a third of its diesel needs -- even as regional inventories are at multiyear lows and prices hover close to record highs."

Well, 60% of US producers would rather listen to a select powerful few on Wall Street, and even if they wanted to ramp up production quickly, the labor and supply chain issues make it difficult.

2008 wasn't even 15 years ago and here we are again. The fact the same groups that drove the 2008 oil spike/crash are exacerbating the current situation is beyond infuriating.

Maybe society will listen this time and actually take renewable and nuclear a bit more seriously this time. Somehow I doubt it...

Oil is on the downswing today on reports of Shanghai lockdowns and worries of further demand reductions as China deals with Omicron.

https://oilprice.com/


In the US, I notices gas was down about 30-40 cents this weekend in the local area as prices were starting to fall back to be more in line with oil prices.
Will have to see if that trend continues.

I wrote this in another thread related to the Ukraine war as well. But I think an element of the debate that has not been touched on fully in western circles is the idea of Asia preferring a multi-polar world over US hegemony (and the EU was supposed to be another "pole" in the world, with the Euro and its own foreign policy).

A lot of the world does not like US hegemony and the US has a long history of foreign policy failures (including plenty in the past ten years). The idea that the US could become happy trigger with sanctions and emotionally impose sanctions on what are supposed to be "neutral networks" of finance and trade has much of Asia, and the people of Asia, worried. It's not just the GCC, China and CIS that are worried but also the likes of Vietnam, Indonesia and India. The idea of there being multiple currencies is nothing new to the world (and the Gulf has a long ancient history of trading in multiple currencies between Europe and the East) and already many major central banks have their central bank reserves in something other than the US dollar (Germany used gold, and many regional reserve currencies exist such as the position of the Australian Dollar in the pacific). It is in the best near term and long term interest of Asian countries to secure their economy and national security by diversifying their reserves away from the US dollar to prevent emotional irresponsible sanctions by the US.

In terms of the oil, the actual amount of oil in the world hasn't inherently decreased because both Iran and Russia are still selling to Asia. It's that the West is having trouble sourcing petroleum. We could see a situation where the West and Asia diverge in terms of oil prices due to varying sources and this could provide a new political tool for diplomatic fights between the West and Asia.

It is best in the near term for the US and Canada to secure their economic and national security concerns by rapidly enacting trade barriers with any country running huge trade deficits with them. This will protect the US and Canada from the emotional irresponsible trade policies of those Asian countries.

See how easy it is to solve the world's problems.

North America is awash in energy. Maybe we should keep it for ourselves instead of shipping to Asia. And when China finds oil in the South China Sea off the coast of Vietnam, don't come running to the US Navy for help.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

It is best in the near term for the US and Canada to secure their economic and national security concerns by rapidly enacting trade barriers with any country running huge trade deficits with them. This will protect the US and Canada from the emotional irresponsible trade policies of those Asian countries.

See how easy it is to solve the world's problems.

North America is awash in energy. Maybe we should keep it for ourselves instead of shipping to Asia. And when China finds oil in the South China Sea off the coast of Vietnam, don't come running to the US Navy for help.

You think supply chain issues are bad now? You think empty store shelves are bad now? One reason we don't make things here is because we refuse to work days on end for a few dollars. Another reason is because we have few precious metals. And our factories to make useable material from raw material are shut down. It takes years to open a new factory. Beyond just building it, there is also getting parts and supplies and train workers who, again, refuse to work days on end for a few dollars.

America and Canada have a never ending supply of immigrants who would love those factory jobs. I hoping we get 100,000 Ukrainian machinists immigrate cause every machine shop in middle America is hiring.

Back to the price of gas. America and Canada is where the oil industry thrives. It's wasn't the majors (Exxon or BP for example ) who started tar sands or the fracking boom. Like most success stories, it was smaller more nimble companies. And isn't that how North American capitalism is supposed to work?

MohawkWeekend wrote:

America and Canada have a never ending supply of immigrants who would love those factory jobs. I hoping we get 100,000 Ukrainian machinists immigrate cause every machine shop in middle America is hiring.

Back to the price of gas. America and Canada is where the oil industry thrives. It's wasn't the majors (Exxon or BP for example ) who started tar sands or the fracking boom. Like most success stories, it was smaller more nimble companies. And isn't that how North American capitalism is supposed to work?

And start-ups and building a better mouse trap. But, some in this country don't want a better mouse trap. Some in this country think the current energy source is infinite and are fine with paying whatever a few tell us we have to pay.

seb146 wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

America and Canada have a never ending supply of immigrants who would love those factory jobs. I hoping we get 100,000 Ukrainian machinists immigrate cause every machine shop in middle America is hiring.

Back to the price of gas. America and Canada is where the oil industry thrives. It's wasn't the majors (Exxon or BP for example ) who started tar sands or the fracking boom. Like most success stories, it was smaller more nimble companies. And isn't that how North American capitalism is supposed to work?

And start-ups and building a better mouse trap. But, some in this country don't want a better mouse trap. Some in this country think the current energy source is infinite and are fine with paying whatever a few tell us we have to pay.

Watching the news from Ukraine, it strikes me on how much fuel must be being consumed by both sides. So much so the Russians are running out. We talk so much in this thread and other about alternate fuels. From Google -
The DOD is the single largest consumer of energy in the US, and in fact, the world's single largest institutional consumer of petroleum. Since 2001, the DOD has consistently consumed between 77 and 80 percent of all US government energy consumption.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Prices may be about to jump as Europe faces a product (diesel and fuel oil) shortage and US supplies get sent east. Jet fuel will be next. Diesel is now over $4.10 gallon pre tax NY Harbor
"Diesel Crisis In Europe Worsens As Austrian Energy Giant Limits Sales". https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... Sales.html

excerpt - "in a rare reversal of normal trade flows, New York is sending two diesel cargoes to Europe -- which relies on Russia for about a third of its diesel needs -- even as regional inventories are at multiyear lows and prices hover close to record highs."

Hey we all should have bought Jet Fuel futures when I first posted this!
"Parabolic.' NY jet fuel prices double in the past two weeks to record highs.https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/05/energy/n ... index.html
Excerpt - "The wholesale price for NY jet fuel spiked to $7.57 a gallon on Tuesday, up from $3.63 a gallon two weeks ago, data provided by OPIS showed."

Prices will stabilize and retreat but we could have............

MohawkWeekend wrote:

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Prices may be about to jump as Europe faces a product (diesel and fuel oil) shortage and US supplies get sent east. Jet fuel will be next. Diesel is now over $4.10 gallon pre tax NY Harbor
"Diesel Crisis In Europe Worsens As Austrian Energy Giant Limits Sales". https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... Sales.html

excerpt - "in a rare reversal of normal trade flows, New York is sending two diesel cargoes to Europe -- which relies on Russia for about a third of its diesel needs -- even as regional inventories are at multiyear lows and prices hover close to record highs."

Hey we all should have bought Jet Fuel futures when I first posted this!
"Parabolic.' NY jet fuel prices double in the past two weeks to record highs.https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/05/energy/n ... index.html
Excerpt - "The wholesale price for NY jet fuel spiked to $7.57 a gallon on Tuesday, up from $3.63 a gallon two weeks ago, data provided by OPIS showed."

Prices will stabilize and retreat but we could have............

Sounds like another speculative binge

Gasoline prices in Northeast Ohio are back down around $3.60. Diesel is still around $1.40 more per gallon ($5).

That tells me it's not crude prices driving this but a shortage of diesel. Doesn't help food prices, trucking, trains and airlines.

[threeid][/threeid]

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Gasoline prices in Northeast Ohio are back down around $3.60. Diesel is still around $1.40 more per gallon ($5).

That tells me it's not crude prices driving this but a shortage of diesel. Doesn't help food prices, trucking, trains and airlines.

Diesel is about $0.30 cheaper per gallon in California. What this tells us is the trade in fuels isn't working currently.

Then again, Gas was almost down to $5/gallon here. Meh, I have chosen to eat out once less per week to still get out.

lightsaber wrote:

[threeid][/threeid]

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Gasoline prices in Northeast Ohio are back down around $3.60. Diesel is still around $1.40 more per gallon ($5).

That tells me it's not crude prices driving this but a shortage of diesel. Doesn't help food prices, trucking, trains and airlines.

Diesel is about $0.30 cheaper per gallon in California. What this tells us is the trade in fuels isn't working currently.

Then again, Gas was almost down to $5/gallon here. Meh, I have chosen to eat out once less per week to still get out.

Is it taxes or inefficient logistics for the high gas prices in California?

Gas buddy is showing 1.59 CAD/l at Costco in YXU. I was filling up the rental in Fort Collins, Co for 4,25 USD/gal. I did it quite often. The V8 was quite thirsty when climbing to 9000'.
BTW, why is regular gasoline in Colorado only 85 AKI?

WildcatYXU wrote:

BTW, why is regular gasoline in Colorado only 85 AKI?

It's the altitude. You'll find 85 octane gas in CO, WY, and UT because the altitude in those states lets you get away with using a slightly lower octane fuel in certain vehicles.

Most people compare the price of 85 octane in Colorado with the national average of 87 octane and say, "wow, gas isn't too bad in Colorado!" However when you compare the price of 87 octane in CO to the national average of the price of 87 octane, CO gas prices are indeed quite high compared to the rest of the country.

In the Los Angeles area, many gas station operators continue to cash in on the run up in fuel prices. There’s a Costco near me, and for the past few years, the surrounding gas stations usually price themselves 30c-40c higher. As of yesterday, Costco was at $5.099, but the surrounding gas stations are all north of $6. Normally I can fill up at Costco with no/minima wait after 8pm, but last night the line was 45-minutes long.

Prices are lowering and moves like this will push the market to keep lowering as production comes on line.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/15/biden-a ... lands.html
"Industry experts say it would take at least six months to a year before new drilling on federal land would produce additional supply and ultimately bring down the cost of gas, which has emerged as a major midterm election issue.

Friday’s announcement, however, is likely to rankle environmentalists. During the 2020 presidential campaign, Biden had urged a complete end to drilling for oil and gas on federal lands, but courts disagreed with his initial moratorium that he signed when he took office.

In late February, the administration said it was delaying decisions on new oil and gas drilling on federal land after a federal court blocked federal agencies from using an estimate known as the “social cost of carbon” to evaluate the damage done by carbon emissions stemming from energy production."

Unfortunately, both Brent and West Texas crude (price benchmarks) both rose almost 15 percent last week. Prices may head up. Natural Gas is skyrocketing and is over $7 per mmbtu. Up almost 50% in a month. Thankfully the heating session is drawing to a close.

PHLspecial wrote:

Wouldn't getting rid of the EPA the oil companies lower fuel prices and getting rid of regulations? That would remove the red tape process. If America got rid of the gas tax forever should we see a decrease in prices soon? That should trickle down to the average people one day right?

Screwing the environment also trickles down to the average people, you know.

I am suprised that Biden wants to extend the use of 15% ethanol blends in gasoline thru the summer months. It's normally not allowed due to increased air pollution in hot weather (drops to 10%) . He thinks it will lower gasoline prices but all it will do is raise food prices now that the world's short corn.

Bad policy any way you look at it.

U.S. Refiners Plan Rare Move Heading Into Summer. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... ummer.html

"Instead of focusing on boosting the production of gasoline in the summer driving season, this year U.S. refiners will be looking to raise diesel and jet fuel runs, as the global market of distillates is very tight following the Russian war in Ukraine and supports high refinery margins for those products".

This will not be good for drivers this summer.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

U.S. Refiners Plan Rare Move Heading Into Summer. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... ummer.html

"Instead of focusing on boosting the production of gasoline in the summer driving season, this year U.S. refiners will be looking to raise diesel and jet fuel runs, as the global market of distillates is very tight following the Russian war in Ukraine and supports high refinery margins for those products".

This will not be good for drivers this summer.

It is going to be interesting this summer, but as you can see below, the oil production itself is beginning to approach April 2019 levels. Still 300,000 barrels a week below. It is about 1.2 million below what it was in March and April of 2020, but the production is coming along.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... RFPUS2&f=W

It will be interesting to see how this summer breaks down with Oil and the distillates.

Oil prices are heading north again with the biggest impact being on diesel (and probably jet)
Diesel Prices Hit New Record On Wednesday.(May 4th)
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... esday.html

A lot is riding on Putin actions on Monday. If it's bad, I think we have shortages in the US as prices draw US diesel and jet to Europe.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Oil prices are heading north again with the biggest impact being on diesel (and probably jet)
Diesel Prices Hit New Record On Wednesday.(May 4th)
https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News ... esday.html

A lot is riding on Putin actions on Monday. If it's bad, I think we have shortages in the US as prices draw US diesel and jet to Europe.

I don't get it. It dropped into the mid 90s for a day for WTI last week. Wall Street bros are doing Putin's revenue replacement search for him...

Can we also point out the absurdity of Republicans wanting to go back to when gas prices were $2.25 under their dear leader? Recall that no one was travelling, and oil prices per barrel were like $10 because no one in the world was buying oil so that is why prices were so low. Is that what Republicans really want? No one to travel because of a global pandemic?

in February of 2020, prior to the pandemic, gas prices were $2.53/gl

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... us_dpg&f=m

The high price of diesel on the east coast, at around $6/gallon in NJ is wreaking potential economic damage as key for distribution of products and will have knock on political damage to Democrats in Fall. Gasoline had been been below $4/gallon a week ago, now it is above $4/gallon in NJ. People are angry and won't be happy until it get back to low $3's (diesel mid-$3's). As noted there are many factors from Russia's war in Ukraine, limited refining capacity, long term move from investment by oil companies as EV's increase their market share.

Cutting off Russian crude and products will pinch European refineries hard. As their prices rise, more US and Asian diesel production will head to Europe.
US oil drillers are having a hard time finding materials to rapidly expand production. And dumping SPR oil into the market has had little effect on prices.

We'll know more tomorrow from Putin. If bad news, I see IMO no reason Jet and Diesel won't continue to go up in price.

Gas prices where I live have been jumping up again, gone up nearly 40 cents per litre in about 2 weeks. We hit 222.9 CAD per litre yesterday, which is about $6.60 US per gallon.

IMO we'll see the Canadian and US governments work to ensure our farmers get all the diesel they need and perhaps subsidized it's purchase. The world is going to need North America to ramp up food production. Droughts in the US southwest aren't going to help the situation.

ltbewr wrote:

The high price of diesel on the east coast, at around $6/gallon in NJ is wreaking potential economic damage as key for distribution of products and will have knock on political damage to Democrats in Fall. Gasoline had been been below $4/gallon a week ago, now it is above $4/gallon in NJ. People are angry and won't be happy until it get back to low $3's (diesel mid-$3's). As noted there are many factors from Russia's war in Ukraine, limited refining capacity, long term move from investment by oil companies as EV's increase their market share.

Many of these people in the NYC area I'm sure have companies like Devon Energy in their portfolios, so they shouldn't complain too much. For those that don't, what can their elected politicians really do about it?

hashtagconfused wrote:

in February of 2020, prior to the pandemic, gas prices were $2.53/gl

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... us_dpg&f=m

And they were $4.10 the summer before Obama was elected. Explain what exactly an American president has to do with gas prices? I know about perception and feelings but what EXACTLY does the American president do? Like negotiating with OPEC and the publicly and privately held gas companies? The presidential candidates? Don't answer with "the public's perception" or "the public's feelings" but, answer with what the president actually does. Please and thank you.

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

in February of 2020, prior to the pandemic, gas prices were $2.53/gl

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... us_dpg&f=m

And they were $4.10 the summer before Obama was elected. Explain what exactly an American president has to do with gas prices? I know about perception and feelings but what EXACTLY does the American president do? Like negotiating with OPEC and the publicly and privately held gas companies? The presidential candidates? Don't answer with "the public's perception" or "the public's feelings" but, answer with what the president actually does. Please and thank you.

i never made a claim about what "an American president has to do with gas prices". you wanted to "point out the absurdity of Republicans wanting to go back to when gas prices were $2.25 under their dear leader" so i simply provided some information about how prices prior to when "no one was travelling" were lower than they are now. it wasn't because "no one in the world was buying oil so that is why prices were so low".

perhaps it is possible people would like low gas prices without a pandemic. unless you can explain how those things are now mutually exclusive? please and thank you.

Well actually they were $4.10 in 2008 because the US was in the midst of an unsubstainable asset bubble that would later crash that year. Both that bubble and the one that's collapsing now were mainly caused by Central Banks flooding the world with almost unlimited cheap money.

So Presidents do play a role - they select the head of the Federal Reserve. And it takes a certain type of President to put someone in charge of the Fed who is willing to take away the punch bowel. Common sense Jimmy Carter put such a man in the job - Paul Volker,

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Well actually they were $4.10 in 2008 because the US was in the midst of an unsubstainable asset bubble that would later crash that year. Both that bubble and the one that's collapsing now were mainly caused by Central Banks flooding the world with almost unlimited cheap money.

So Presidents do play a role - they select the head of the Federal Reserve. And it takes a certain type of President to put someone in charge of the Fed who is willing to take away the punch bowel. Common sense Jimmy Carter put such a man in the job - Paul Volker,

But in this, the Fed is currently raising rates to avoid hyper inflation. The effects on the rigs right now are starting. More Rigs and more production everyday, but the cog in the wheel right now is Russia.
A lot of oil got taken off the market by sanctions. So now rates will rise through the summer, which will put the brakes on the economy.

Several economists believe the FED has waited too long to normalize interest rates
A recession will cause energy prices to fall. Just think what they would be now if China wasn't locked down.

hashtagconfused wrote:

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

in February of 2020, prior to the pandemic, gas prices were $2.53/gl

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... us_dpg&f=m

And they were $4.10 the summer before Obama was elected. Explain what exactly an American president has to do with gas prices? I know about perception and feelings but what EXACTLY does the American president do? Like negotiating with OPEC and the publicly and privately held gas companies? The presidential candidates? Don't answer with "the public's perception" or "the public's feelings" but, answer with what the president actually does. Please and thank you.

i never made a claim about what "an American president has to do with gas prices". you wanted to "point out the absurdity of Republicans wanting to go back to when gas prices were $2.25 under their dear leader" so i simply provided some information about how prices prior to when "no one was travelling" were lower than they are now. it wasn't because "no one in the world was buying oil so that is why prices were so low".

perhaps it is possible people would like low gas prices without a pandemic. unless you can explain how those things are now mutually exclusive? please and thank you.

Gas prices have been low without a pandemic. Your chart proves that. It is Republicans who tie high prices to Biden and, when he was in office, Obama and gave credit for low prices during the last administration. Presidents have zero to do with prices paid by consumers. Especially on a global scale.

MohawkWeekend wrote:

Well actually they were $4.10 in 2008 because the US was in the midst of an unsubstainable asset bubble that would later crash that year. Both that bubble and the one that's collapsing now were mainly caused by Central Banks flooding the world with almost unlimited cheap money.

And not surprisingly, who's to blame for this? Yep, TFG. Same person who kept rate low just to prop up the stock market so he can claim a "great economy". We're only seeing the effect now.

Being through the high gas price in 2008 and then again in 2012, I laugh hard at people complaining as if gas haven't been this high before. One thing to be seen is whether this will push US into more EV and/or back to the smaller cars that were selling like crazy up until 2018 or so, when gas are so low that everyone is back to their SUVs/Trucks.

Speaking to a young neighbor yesterday (mid-30's). He has two cars - A Mazda cx5 and a lifted one year old Ram truck. Drives 60 miles round trip each day for work. Asked him if he was going to start driving the Mazda and he said "maybe but I sure enjoy that truck". Drove the truck this morning to work.

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

seb146 wrote:

And they were $4.10 the summer before Obama was elected. Explain what exactly an American president has to do with gas prices? I know about perception and feelings but what EXACTLY does the American president do? Like negotiating with OPEC and the publicly and privately held gas companies? The presidential candidates? Don't answer with "the public's perception" or "the public's feelings" but, answer with what the president actually does. Please and thank you.

i never made a claim about what "an American president has to do with gas prices". you wanted to "point out the absurdity of Republicans wanting to go back to when gas prices were $2.25 under their dear leader" so i simply provided some information about how prices prior to when "no one was travelling" were lower than they are now. it wasn't because "no one in the world was buying oil so that is why prices were so low".

perhaps it is possible people would like low gas prices without a pandemic. unless you can explain how those things are now mutually exclusive? please and thank you.

Gas prices have been low without a pandemic. Your chart proves that. It is Republicans who tie high prices to Biden and, when he was in office, Obama and gave credit for low prices during the last administration. Presidents have zero to do with prices paid by consumers. Especially on a global scale.

i'm not quite what your original point was then. you tied the low prices to the pandemic and then in your last post agreed that there have been low prices without a pandemic just to then point out that Republicans are tying the high prices to Biden and previously to Obama. when prices were increasing under Trump, and when in office, Bush, they were blamed for high prices by Democrats. no matter who is in office, when prices go up the opposing party will blame them. and when prices are low, the controlling party will want to claim credit.

you also claimed that Republicans wanting low prices somehow equates to wanting no one to travel because of a global pandemic. perhaps lower prices without a pandemic is not a party exclusive desire and not so absurd.

hashtagconfused wrote:

seb146 wrote:

hashtagconfused wrote:

i never made a claim about what "an American president has to do with gas prices". you wanted to "point out the absurdity of Republicans wanting to go back to when gas prices were $2.25 under their dear leader" so i simply provided some information about how prices prior to when "no one was travelling" were lower than they are now. it wasn't because "no one in the world was buying oil so that is why prices were so low".

perhaps it is possible people would like low gas prices without a pandemic. unless you can explain how those things are now mutually exclusive? please and thank you.

Gas prices have been low without a pandemic. Your chart proves that. It is Republicans who tie high prices to Biden and, when he was in office, Obama and gave credit for low prices during the last administration. Presidents have zero to do with prices paid by consumers. Especially on a global scale.

i'm not quite what your original point was then. you tied the low prices to the pandemic and then in your last post agreed that there have been low prices without a pandemic just to then point out that Republicans are tying the high prices to Biden and previously to Obama. when prices were increasing under Trump, and when in office, Bush, they were blamed for high prices by Democrats. no matter who is in office, when prices go up the opposing party will blame them. and when prices are low, the controlling party will want to claim credit.

you also claimed that Republicans wanting low prices somehow equates to wanting no one to travel because of a global pandemic. perhaps lower prices without a pandemic is not a party exclusive desire and not so absurd.

I was pointing out individual facts. Gas prices have been low under previous administrations, whether R or D. Gas prices were low when there was no global pandemic. The one point is that the president of the United States can not dictate gas prices. But, since one side believes they do, they also conveniently forget that gas prices were low under Obama.

What I don't understand is why there is not a bigger investment to rollout and expand hydrogen powered vehicles. Both Honda and Toyota have in mostly Southern California. Hydrogen is the most abundant gas in the universe. It is used to power an electric engine so its clean and green. If more hydrogen fueling stations are rolled out it becomes convenient and the prices will come down.

FLYFIRSTCLASS wrote:

What I don't understand is why there is not a bigger investment to rollout and expand hydrogen powered vehicles. Both Honda and Toyota have in mostly Southern California. Hydrogen is the most abundant gas in the universe. It is used to power an electric engine so its clean and green. If more hydrogen fueling stations are rolled out it becomes convenient and the prices will come down.

1. It require a lot of investment for efficient and safe engine and storage of hydrogen, and require development of hydrogen distribution network to back it up. Tesla battery cars use off the shelve batteries and can simply use power socket from your home for charging. No such thing available for hydrogen. And one also don't want their cars exploding like hydrogen airships.
2. Hydrogen is most abundant element in the universe, but there aren't that much of them on earth or in the earth. Most proposals for expanded hydrogen supply involve either electrolysis or catalysis of water into hydrogen and oxygen, or converting fossil fuels into hydrogen. Electrolysis consume a lot of electric power. Splitting of hydrocarbons mean you still need to extract oils, and in the process you risk creating methane, a very powerful greenhouse gas.