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Exrampieyyz
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Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:02 pm

Ok, we all live in a supply and demand world. I understand that. The price goes up and this is suppose to curtail demand and accelerate competition to bring more commodities to the market.
But with oil and natural gas, price change will not affect demand very much. I gotta drive to work, heat my house, deliver my goods. You can raise the price to the moon and I won't be able to cut my usage by very much.
Now with putin going full paranoia, and well deserved sanctions, the price is going up.
My questions are, who gets the extra money? Oil companies? Why should they profit from putin? Why should putin profit? (Please stop buying oil from putin!).
If there are to be oil shortages what will high prices do but hurt the economies even more. If the world population has to take a hit because everything will cost more, why not make the oil industry take a big hit and absorb some losses after how many years of high profits.
I'll leave it at that for now, and maybe continue my rant about corporations good and bad later.

Thanks for reading
Doug S
 
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casinterest
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:22 pm

When a commodity goes up in price, all the distribution points from A to B have a chance to collect, but the majority of it will go to those that actually produce and pump the oil. So Oil well owners should see the most profits, which is as it should be. They will have more incentive to drill more and hire more at high oil prices. Especially if they can sell it.

Remember that not all oil extraction types and transportation to distribution hubs is equal, so higher oil ups the incentive for previously unprofitable wells to be reopened.

It is all a bit of a long winding dance, but at the end of the day, by fall of this year, we should see prices ease quite a bit. The summer will be a bit rough.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:31 pm

Exrampieyyz wrote:
Ok, we all live in a supply and demand world. I understand that. The price goes up and this is suppose to curtail demand and accelerate competition to bring more commodities to the market.
But with oil and natural gas, price change will not affect demand very much. I gotta drive to work, heat my house, deliver my goods. You can raise the price to the moon and I won't be able to cut my usage by very much.
Now with putin going full paranoia, and well deserved sanctions, the price is going up.
My questions are, who gets the extra money? Oil companies? Why should they profit from putin? Why should putin profit? (Please stop buying oil from putin!).
If there are to be oil shortages what will high prices do but hurt the economies even more. If the world population has to take a hit because everything will cost more, why not make the oil industry take a big hit and absorb some losses after how many years of high profits.
I'll leave it at that for now, and maybe continue my rant about corporations good and bad later.

Thanks for reading
Doug S


'Too big to fail' essential businesses like oil and banks can profit whether the situation is good or bad, if they are properly run. Look no further than the billions in profits the big 6 ran up during the pandemic even as demand plummeted. And they will profit again now with the higher prices, as they have not rehired all the labor dismissed in 2020-21 and will sit back and take action after securing state and federal incentives to ramp production back up.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:15 am

casinterest wrote:


It is all a bit of a long winding dance, but at the end of the day, by fall of this year, we should see prices ease quite a bit. The summer will be a bit rough.



It may actually go down before that. OPEC has signaled pretty loudly that they are going to increase production substantially in April. This could upward of 7% more supply overall/globally, which is pretty huge.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 9:34 am

casinterest wrote:
When a commodity goes up in price, all the distribution points from A to B have a chance to collect, but the majority of it will go to those that actually produce and pump the oil. So Oil well owners should see the most profits, which is as it should be. They will have more incentive to drill more and hire more at high oil prices. Especially if they can sell it.

Remember that not all oil extraction types and transportation to distribution hubs is equal, so higher oil ups the incentive for previously unprofitable wells to be reopened.

It is all a bit of a long winding dance, but at the end of the day, by fall of this year, we should see prices ease quite a bit. The summer will be a bit rough.


That all depends on the country, in NZ for instance most of the pump price of fuel is tax, the big winner in this isn't the oil company, or the retail outlets its the government.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:31 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
casinterest wrote:


It is all a bit of a long winding dance, but at the end of the day, by fall of this year, we should see prices ease quite a bit. The summer will be a bit rough.



It may actually go down before that. OPEC has signaled pretty loudly that they are going to increase production substantially in April. This could upward of 7% more supply overall/globally, which is pretty huge.


It very well could. I just really expect demand to go through the roof this spring break.summer( which may already be mitigated by the current prices). People have been itching to do a lot more vacation travel since Covid hit, and while I do expect production to increase, I feel like demand will be pushing hard on it in the US and Europe. We will see how things settle out over the next few weeks.


Kiwirob wrote:
That all depends on the country, in NZ for instance most of the pump price of fuel is tax, the big winner in this isn't the oil company, or the retail outlets its the government.


Here in the US, the pump taxes are relatively well set, but they vary by state,county. California has higher taxes than NC.

https://taxfoundation.org/state-gas-tax-rates-2021/

The federal rate is 18.5 cents a gallon.

NC has the below formula.
https://www.ncdor.gov/taxes-forms/motor ... -tax-rates
**** Effective January 1, 2017, the motor fuels tax rate is set at a flat rate of 34 cents per gallon multiplied by a percentage. The percentage is plus or minus the sum of the annual percentage change in state population for the applicable calendar year, multiplied by 75 percent and the annual energy index percentage change in the Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers, multiplied by 25 percent.

Which means in 2022 we are paying 38.5 cents a gallong in NC for a total of

57cents a gallon. Not much considering I spent 3.85 a gallon the other day.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:46 pm

In NZ 52% of the pump price is tax.
 
johns624
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:28 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
In NZ 52% of the pump price is tax.
That's interesting. In the US, it's a specific amount per gallon, not a percentage.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 6:08 pm

Aaron - ExxonMobil lost $22.4 billion in 2020. Chevron lost $5.5 billion. I believe all the oil majors did. Many small drillers went bankrupt.
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:01 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Aaron - ExxonMobil lost $22.4 billion in 2020. Chevron lost $5.5 billion. I believe all the oil majors did. Many small drillers went bankrupt.

And how many billions did they make in the good times. Yes the pandemic hurt a lot of people. I seem to remember them making billions every quarter for years.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:50 pm

My reply was to the comment that oil companies made money during covid. They did not.

Apple had net income of $94 billion in 2021. Walmart made $143 billion, Duke Energy (US's second largest utility ) made $18.137 billion.
ExxonMobil made $23 billion in 2021
American's just like to hate oil companies.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:21 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Aaron - ExxonMobil lost $22.4 billion in 2020. Chevron lost $5.5 billion. I believe all the oil majors did. Many small drillers went bankrupt.


And the profits posted in 2021 indicated they recovered nicely thanks to adjusting labor and production levels.
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:02 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
My reply was to the comment that oil companies made money during covid. They did not.

Apple had net income of $94 billion in 2021. Walmart made $143 billion, Duke Energy (US's second largest utility ) made $18.137 billion.
ExxonMobil made $23 billion in 2021
American's just like to hate oil companies.

Don't hate oil companies or any corporations. They provide millions of good jobs and make the world go around. But when things like this happen, they might like to help the masses where their money comes from and give up stock buy backs and acquisitions for just a short time. Then maybe more people might like them more
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:26 am

Here are some insights into the US oil industry hive-mind:

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... ce=twitter

"Nearly 60% of those surveyed said pressure from shareholders to increase returns remains the primary driver behind public companies' reluctance to expand output.

Still, some 15% of large firms surveyed said they planned to increase growth by more than 30% this year, while 23% of smaller firms anticipate that level of growth, the survey showed."

It's clear where this money is going... at the expense of security and the broader economy. The question is what could it take, if possible, to relinquish Wall Street's chokehold on domestic production?

This is not 2020 anymore.
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:53 pm

So as I stated above why should the oil companies be raising prices and making all this profit when the world is in such termoil!

Again as I said above demand is pretty much neutral compared to 2019, but the supply side is controlled by the oil companies so they have caused this price increase by shutting plants during covid.

Corporate greed needs to be certailed at least in times like this. Maybe take a hit on their profits for the good of all for once.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... 22-profits
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:07 pm

Look at crack spreads, diesel spread has gone up 3.5 times what it was a year ago. Bottlenecks create profit opportunity and refining is where the bottleneck is. There hasn’t been a new large refinery built in 40 years and won’t be one built soon.
 
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seb146
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:12 pm

Exrampieyyz wrote:
So as I stated above why should the oil companies be raising prices and making all this profit when the world is in such termoil!

Again as I said above demand is pretty much neutral compared to 2019, but the supply side is controlled by the oil companies so they have caused this price increase by shutting plants during covid.

Corporate greed needs to be certailed at least in times like this. Maybe take a hit on their profits for the good of all for once.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... 22-profits


Thank you for the laugh of the day! Corporations helping the little guy! That's a good one! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The rich have a mindset of "he who dies with the most toys, wins". They don't care about anyone else. Just them staying rich. Congress had an opportunity to hold these crooks accountable, but Republicans voted against it. It is sitting in the Senate waiting for a vote, but it will probably die there

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-con ... /7688/text
 
johns624
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:14 pm

How many people here own an S&P500 Index Fund? If so, you're one of those greedy shareholders.
 
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seb146
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:19 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Look at crack spreads, diesel spread has gone up 3.5 times what it was a year ago. Bottlenecks create profit opportunity and refining is where the bottleneck is. There hasn’t been a new large refinery built in 40 years and won’t be one built soon.


It has nothing at all to do with the number of refineries.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/crude-oil

Oil is trading today (June 14, 2022) about $120 a barrel. The price spiked back in 2008 at $140bbl. There are tabs at the bottom of the graph to go back many years. Price at the pump was about $3.50 with the same number of refineries. This is corporate greed pure and simple.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:09 pm

Just the facts -

"As a result of several U.S. refinery closures in 2020, U.S. operable atmospheric crude oil distillation capacity, the primary measure of refinery capacity in the United States, dropped 4.5% to a total of 18.1 million barrels per calendar day (b/cd) at the start of 2021.. The end-of-year 2020 total is 0.8 million b/cd less than the 19.0 million b/cd of refining capacity at the start of 2020. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48636

"In 2021, imports from Russia accounted for 8% of all U.S. petroleum imports, which includes the 3% share of crude oil imports and the 20% share of petroleum product imports." https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51738


Ain't getting any of that back. The refinery in Philadelphia (after it blew up) is long gone. And nobody is going to build a new one here. Russia will gladly sell us gasoline.
 
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par13del
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:26 pm

Exrampieyyz wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Aaron - ExxonMobil lost $22.4 billion in 2020. Chevron lost $5.5 billion. I believe all the oil majors did. Many small drillers went bankrupt.

And how many billions did they make in the good times. Yes the pandemic hurt a lot of people. I seem to remember them making billions every quarter for years.

So when they make profits they are supposed to keep them in the bank? A lot of what was distributed to shareholders was used to keep them going, whether as an individual or their business houses. A lot of funds are also invested in big oil, unfortunately, when we see companies distributing their profits we usually do not look to see who is getting those funds, we just focus on the senior managers.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Tue Jun 14, 2022 9:30 pm

"Natural gas plummets as Freeport delays facility restart following explosion" - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/14/natural ... osion.html

Excerpt - "Natural gas prices plunged on Tuesday, after Freeport LNG said its facility that had a fire last week likely won’t be back up and running soon."

Gee wiz - Supply and demand does impact prices. Here I thought greedy oil companies were pulling the strings. Time for Congressional hearings on collapsing energy prices.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:21 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Just the facts -

"As a result of several U.S. refinery closures in 2020, U.S. operable atmospheric crude oil distillation capacity, the primary measure of refinery capacity in the United States, dropped 4.5% to a total of 18.1 million barrels per calendar day (b/cd) at the start of 2021.. The end-of-year 2020 total is 0.8 million b/cd less than the 19.0 million b/cd of refining capacity at the start of 2020. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=48636

"In 2021, imports from Russia accounted for 8% of all U.S. petroleum imports, which includes the 3% share of crude oil imports and the 20% share of petroleum product imports." https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=51738


Ain't getting any of that back. The refinery in Philadelphia (after it blew up) is long gone. And nobody is going to build a new one here. Russia will gladly sell us gasoline.

I didn't know these facts. A decline in production and loss of Russia's 8% is huge. With over 12% gone *and* European availability also going to be down, we're in trouble.

Supply/Demand.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:59 pm

For many people it's actually possible to drive less. Carsharing for example. Car ads here in France now have a disclaimer inciting you to not use the car, quite ironic.

Then you can also reconsider buying a gigantic pile of steel and look at more reasonable vehicles with less cylinders.

Drive more smoothly.

Combine errands in a single trip.
 
bhill
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:34 pm

Exrampieyyz wrote:
Ok, we all live in a supply and demand world. I understand that. The price goes up and this is suppose to curtail demand and accelerate competition to bring more commodities to the market.
But with oil and natural gas, price change will not affect demand very much. I gotta drive to work, heat my house, deliver my goods. You can raise the price to the moon and I won't be able to cut my usage by very much.
Now with putin going full paranoia, and well deserved sanctions, the price is going up.
My questions are, who gets the extra money? Oil companies? Why should they profit from putin? Why should putin profit? (Please stop buying oil from putin!).
If there are to be oil shortages what will high prices do but hurt the economies even more. If the world population has to take a hit because everything will cost more, why not make the oil industry take a big hit and absorb some losses after how many years of high profits.
I'll leave it at that for now, and maybe continue my rant about corporations good and bad later.

Thanks for reading
Doug S


Why the oil companies of course! Those same companies do not want to get caught flat footed with a surplus of oil, as what happened during the pandemic. Soooo...they are keeping production down "just in case the next outbreak occurs..."

"Supply and Demand"...riiiight.
 
Derico
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:01 pm

Aesma wrote:
For many people it's actually possible to drive less. Carsharing for example. Car ads here in France now have a disclaimer inciting you to not use the car, quite ironic.

Then you can also reconsider buying a gigantic pile of steel and look at more reasonable vehicles with less cylinders.

Drive more smoothly.

Combine errands in a single trip.


Exactly. I have no pity on people that in 20 years made the same error twice. Or, if they truly love to drive leviathans, fine. But don't go crying to the government or the oil companies for relief for your lifestyle choice. Entitled brats.

As for the oil companies, I have no problem with them raking in the profits, if they didn't come begging for subsidies or other types of breaks (including laxer environmental rules) when prices are depressed.

The basic problem with the modern economic system is simple and well-documented: profits and growth cycles are privatized, downturns and losses are socialized. It's criminal and to this day I don't understand why vast swaths of corporates around the globe are not in prison for this scheme. Then you wonder why wealth has concentrated so much in the last half century.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:03 pm

Derico wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Then you can also reconsider buying a gigantic pile of steel and look at more reasonable vehicles with less cylinders.


Exactly. I have no pity on people that in 20 years made the same error twice. Or, if they truly love to drive leviathans, fine. But don't go crying to the government or the oil companies for relief for your lifestyle choice. Entitled brats.



It is not as clear cut as it may seem. I don't know the situation in your respective countries, but here (Canada, Ontario) the insurance companies will eat you alive if you buy a really small car. Allegedly because of combined high risk of totaling the car and personal injuries. So what you save on CAPEX and fuel, you lose on insurance.

Also, due to the work I'm doing I drive all kinds of cars. Sometimes I'm really surprised about the fuel economy of the cars I'm renting. For example, The MB A220 I was using to commute from Sherbrooke, QC to Stanstead, QC for 3 weeks wasn't the best on fuel. Actually, it was worse than a Dodge Charger. The Charger is a full size car with V6, 3.6l, 300hp engine. Yet it was better than the MB. And let's not even start about SUV's. I mean small SUV's. The Mitsubishi RVR was taking about 9l/100km on the same route (again worse than the Charger). I rented a hybrid as well. It was the hybrid version of Ford Escape. Slightly better, but at average 7.7l/100km not anything to write home about. Hybrids simply aren't built for highway driving.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:11 am

Derico wrote:
Exactly. I have no pity on people that in 20 years made the same error twice. Or, if they truly love to drive leviathans, fine. But don't go crying to the government or the oil companies for relief for your lifestyle choice. Entitled brats.

THIS

I pity those who were finally able to land a small car and are having a hard time driving it because of gas prices. I have no sympathy for those who buy trucks with all the bells and whistles and further the stereotype of men being obsessed with size or speed.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:47 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Derico wrote:
Exactly. I have no pity on people that in 20 years made the same error twice. Or, if they truly love to drive leviathans, fine. But don't go crying to the government or the oil companies for relief for your lifestyle choice. Entitled brats.

THIS

I pity those who were finally able to land a small car and are having a hard time driving it because of gas prices. I have no sympathy for those who buy trucks with all the bells and whistles and further the stereotype of men being obsessed with size or speed.


Agreed. I understand some people ( a few people) need 4WD pickups. But it is rare. I think people over spend on driving heavy vehicles too far. A Prius is a tough vehicle in its way, and with suspension upgrade can carry 500 lb of tools easily. A Maverick pickup can get 40 mpg.

I drive very few miles these past years. But for people who DO decide to drive a lot of miles, it is incumbent on them to choose a reasonable vehicle for their mission. You cannot expect to drive 3000 miles per month at 15 mpg and expect it will be cheap. There are people spending $10k per year in fuel, who cannot afford it. They say it is a “need.” It is not a need.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:01 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Derico wrote:
Exactly. I have no pity on people that in 20 years made the same error twice. Or, if they truly love to drive leviathans, fine. But don't go crying to the government or the oil companies for relief for your lifestyle choice. Entitled brats.

THIS

I pity those who were finally able to land a small car and are having a hard time driving it because of gas prices. I have no sympathy for those who buy trucks with all the bells and whistles and further the stereotype of men being obsessed with size or speed.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with men being obsessed with large or fast vehicles. What's bad however, is the whining when they have to pay for their toys and for the fuel.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Question: With the price of oil skyrocketing, who gets the extra money?

Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:26 pm

Fuel/energy is essential and the price it is going for today is entirely a result of willful policies designed to curb/destroy the major and most important sources of energy for our society.

When society is dependent on these, and you saw off the branch of the tree everybody’s sitting on, everybody has the right to point fingers at you. And you deserve it.

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