Time has flown by. And believe it or not, we have just passed the 2 year anniversary of the day that COVID-19 was declared a pandemic. The last 2 years have been a roller coaster for all of us, to say the least.
In recent weeks, I have been reflecting on my own personal growth and experiences during this time period. There were times of happiness, sadness, disappointment, anger, frustration, and anxiety. I think every single one of you can relate to that.

I was in my second-to-last year of chemical engineering undergraduate pathway, and my university (like all others) had announced that it would be going 100% virtual for the rest of the year. And then as we all remember, the world seemed to be turning upside down. People being hospitalized, dying, losing jobs. Sports leagues, restaurants, shops, entertainment venues shutting down. And of course, the aviation industry that we've known and loved being brought down to its knees, with empty airports, cancelled flights, and planes grounded en masse.

If I could go back to March 2020, I would tell myself these things:

1. These hardships are not going to last forever. They will make you a stronger, better human being in the long term. The longest, darkest journeys often lead to the most beautiful destinations.
2. Live in the present moment. Don't keep wondering "when will this be over?" Things will happen as they are meant to happen.
3. Pay less attention to the news. Yes, stay informed but don't keep looking at it as news nearly always has a depressing/scare mongering spin to it.
4. It's not all about you. --- I was beyond lucky enough not to have any friends or family lost or hospitalized due to COVID-19. Millions around the world unfortunately cannot say the same.

Of course, there are so many other things I would tell myself. But these are the biggest ones.

How about you guys? What would you tell your early-2020 selves?

Nothing really. Only things that could have made the last 2 years better are well beyond my control.

Don't bother following the news, they don't know either and the rules will change every other day anyway.
Don't get too wound up over antivax'ers, they are beyond reasoning.

And if I can be a bit self-indulgent, I would like to get back to early februari. Tell the nurses caring for my granddad to come back in half an hour or so, and spend a bit more time with him while he could still recognise me. The other three times I got to see him after that day, he was delirious, comatose and in a coffin. Dementia is a bitch.

People have already hit on some good points here. I have one work-related - there was no way of knowing which colleagues were really ready for transition to fully remote and who wasn't. We assumed because everyone used smartphones they'd all be comfortable/proficient working entirely from Zoom/Teams/Tableau....wrong!

I'd tell myself to take a couple weeks off from work and go to Norway before they stopped any travel from America. It's been almost 4 years since I was there and I miss it dearly. I was supposed to study in Sweden in autumn of 2020, but that switched to online learning and I had to stay home.

I'd tell myself the same thing I told myself the first time around - ignore whatever crap comes out of Trump's piehole and put your faith in medical science.

Invest when everyone is panicking and selling stocks

It's never has doom and gloom as it's made out to be in the media in the overall scheme of things

"You don't actually need to rub down your groceries with disinfectant wet-wipes. Also Trump's gonna lose and there's going to be a land war in Europe. k bye"

Honestly I'd just be more normal and get the damn covid and get it out of the way.

My last day at work before a pandemic on site was March 13, 2000. For sure it was a time of panic, sorrow, fear and shock. Still I had hope that it will work out somehow, that I would survive. Fortunately by the middle of the following week, I was able to work at home with a computer I got in the last hours of my last in person work day for over a year. In late April 2021, I went back to my workplace, with restrictions, 1 x a week, 2 x a week from July until my retirement from full time work in late November, 2021.When the vaccines were available, I got them (in March 2021, booster in November 2021).
The night of 3/13/21, I watched on TCM channel 'The Diary of Anne Frank'. (I have visited the site of her hiding in 1988 and went by it in 1998). It made me realize that others have had to deal with far worse situations than a pandemic and will with concern I kept hope. Today, 2 years from the start of the pandemic, we see millions in threat of death in a war in Ukraine, something far worse to them than Covid-19. We have also seen the USA and parts of the world to have been severely divided politically and socially. I wish that didn't happen, that we all should have shut Trump down by any means necessary.
Perhaps the thing I would say to myself 2 years ago is not much different that what I said then. That I held hope I and those around me would survive, taking the advice of experts, not of Pres. Trump, and so far I am ok.

I'd buy a ton of TSLA, S&P 500 stocks, BNTX stock, GME stock. Then I'd retire early.

Don't plan a move to LA when the city is on hard shutdown. Instead move during fall of 2021 or later when life is more or less normal

I'd buy stock in the company that makes 20/20 hindsight glasses. Their use usually rises dramatically after things like a pandemic.

When I was bullied in junior high and high school, I noticed adults who were too muddled through until they could get to a point where they could get to a better place. This too shall pass. I knew this would pass, so I just kept my head down and muddled through. Just like in school.

I would not change a thing.

Unfollow certain friends on Facebook - save myself the heartburn and headaches

Don’t watch the news and live life. I would definitely taken Advantage of the cheap flights.

Snuffaluffagus wrote:

I'd buy a ton of TSLA, S&P 500 stocks, BNTX stock, GME stock. Then I'd retire early.

I actually sold my Tesla stock in February 2020, I had done extremely well in it so was happy to book the profit. I used a chunk of that money to buy my companies stock as in took a beating the first 2 weeks of March. I ended up at an average price of $10, its in the $60's now so I am happy.

But the main thing I would tell myself is to slow down.

I spent a good part of March and April figuring out how to keep the company afloat while trying to protect all the employees, it made for some long days and nights, some arm twisting, heck I held one of the most productive meetings of my life in a public park, at 10pm with the heads of our unions, a strange place for sure, but it helped show the urgency of the situation.

Should have bought a beach condo in Nov of 2019

I would tell myself to work less. Ignore the news. Ignore Anti-Vaxxers ( Family member is one )

Since day one, I have had a stable job as we were classed essential.
But anxiety took over and I worked all the hours they let me thinking that the stability would disappear due to UN-knowns. Our open hours were less at the beginning and i did loose a small amount of income but since recovered and I should have never worried about it in the first place .

The news made it worse.

The family member is long since been blocked and I don't engage with him anymore, it will suck the life out of you.
.
C

Nothing. I saw it for what it was. True knowledge does not come from hysteria. It was a bad virus, it infected almost everybody, and the vulnerable people died. There wasn't any great meaning to it. Since I am vaccinated, I didn't die, so that was nice. Otherwise, life goes on.

LCDFlight wrote:

Nothing. I saw it for what it was. True knowledge does not come from hysteria. It was a bad virus, it infected almost everybody, and the vulnerable people died. There wasn't any great meaning to it. Since I am vaccinated, I didn't die, so that was nice. Otherwise, life goes on.

True knowledge also did not come from hyperemotional arrogance presuming to know more than hard-earned expertise.

I'd have broken out my Marcus Aurelius sooner to stay even more keeled earlier in this whole affair.

And I'd have probably played the market a helluva lot harder.

Buy oil. Buy some airline stocks.

ltbewr wrote:

My last day at work before a pandemic on site was March 13, 2000. For sure it was a time of panic, sorrow, fear and shock. Still I had hope that it will work out somehow, that I would survive. Fortunately by the middle of the following week, I was able to work at home with a computer I got in the last hours of my last in person work day for over a year. In late April 2021, I went back to my workplace, with restrictions, 1 x a week, 2 x a week from July until my retirement from full time work in late November, 2021.When the vaccines were available, I got them (in March 2021, booster in November 2021).
The night of 3/13/21, I watched on TCM channel 'The Diary of Anne Frank'. (I have visited the site of her hiding in 1988 and went by it in 1998). It made me realize that others have had to deal with far worse situations than a pandemic and will with concern I kept hope. Today, 2 years from the start of the pandemic, we see millions in threat of death in a war in Ukraine, something far worse to them than Covid-19. We have also seen the USA and parts of the world to have been severely divided politically and socially. I wish that didn't happen, that we all should have shut Trump down by any means necessary.
Perhaps the thing I would say to myself 2 years ago is not much different that what I said then. That I held hope I and those around me would survive, taking the advice of experts, not of Pres. Trump, and so far I am ok.

You spent more than 2 DECADES in quarantine

Nothing. I did everything right. I haven't yet caught COVID. I added some nice biotechs to my portfolio, when all the scared money was down, I bought. Sale of a lifetime...well maybe I've seen about 3 of those in mine. Held on to my property, didn't flee, just stayed in the house for 2 years. I'm good. I was one of the ones warning you all.

I would have told myself to exercise more and practice certain physical activities so I didn't lose the "muscle memory." On how this would last. I would also note not to go to that certain place I first caught covid19 (get vaccinated first). I would also have added biotechs to my portfolio.

lightsaber wrote:

I would have told myself to exercise more and practice certain physical activities so I didn't lose the "muscle memory." On how this would last. I would also note not to go to that certain place I first caught covid19 (get vaccinated first). I would also have added biotechs to my portfolio.

Biotechs and GME I have a buddy who jumped on the GME wave at just the right time, got in, and got out 8 days later with a profit of over $70K.

Nothing. Though there is one thing I would NOT have told myself: that it would take two years.to get over the worst of it. I assumed it would have been eliminated by the initial strict lockdown, or dissappear during the summer, much like 'flu.

Which crypto coins to buy. I'd be retired right now. Anyone have a time machine?

1. What crypto to buy and when to sell

2. Dump my ex sooner

3. Dump my ex business partner sooner

But alas, in life we have to go through hardships to learn lessons and build character. No regrets.

lightsaber wrote:

I would have told myself to exercise more and practice certain physical activities so I didn't lose the "muscle memory." On how this would last. I would also note not to go to that certain place I first caught covid19 (get vaccinated first). I would also have added biotechs to my portfolio.

It’s interesting that you say that. I’m a avid hiker and in 2020 I never seen so many people on the trails. I do a lot of camping and I could definitely see all the first timers at the campgrounds! I’ll bet they’ll be lots of used camping equipment for sale!

tomaheath wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

I would have told myself to exercise more and practice certain physical activities so I didn't lose the "muscle memory." On how this would last. I would also note not to go to that certain place I first caught covid19 (get vaccinated first). I would also have added biotechs to my portfolio.

It’s interesting that you say that. I’m a avid hiker and in 2020 I never seen so many people on the trails. I do a lot of camping and I could definitely see all the first timers at the campgrounds! I’ll bet they’ll be lots of used camping equipment for sale!

Lockdowns made shared pathways in my area crazy busy with walkers and cyclists. I moved my cycling to roads (which had fewer cars) but made sure I kept the exercise up.

I think I'd tell myself not to get so uptight about data - plus the things so I could be comfortably retired now!

We should have ignored the recommendations of the nursing home staff and pulled my elderly aunt out of her isolation ward/nursing home months earlier, before several covid scares/outbreaks among patients (brought in by staff members because nobody else was being let in!). She was vaccinated early and never got sick, but the mental toll of the stress, isolation, and poor care is noticeable.

How most nursing home patients were treated during the pandemic (locked in their rooms 'for their protection') would be considered cruel and unusual punishment if applied to prisoners.

1) Doctors, Ph.D's and professors in medicine are terrific in being experts in their fields, but are not necessarily qualified to conduct health policies
2) There is more to life than simply staying alive
3) Democracies we thought were stable proved capable of enforcing draconian laws of containment that did little to actually save people from the virus, but did make life unbearable for the most of us by enforcing silly mandates that served little - save symbolic - value.
4) The youth, who are already facing a steep price left by their parents (exorbitantly housing prices, climate change etc.), has been forced to sacrifice their most precious years to save people who would have likely died anyway
5) Basic civics and political philosophy should be mandatory for school children
6) People who climb into the ivory tower, proclaiming moral and intellectually superiority, are usually the first to ostracize those who think differently, and are likely the first to promote fascism/autocratism to preserve their safety. I am especially talking to you, Lightsaber.
7) Most people have a flawed idea of "science"
8) People wearing masks in public need to re-evaluate the actual and more immediate dangers
9) School-lockdowns are the worst thing you can ever do
10) At least people learned how to wash their hands

fallap wrote:

1) Doctors, Ph.D's and professors in medicine are terrific in being experts in their fields, but are not necessarily qualified to conduct health policies
2) There is more to life than simply staying alive
3) Democracies we thought were stable proved capable of enforcing draconian laws of containment that did little to actually save people from the virus, but did make life unbearable for the most of us by enforcing silly mandates that served little - save symbolic - value.
4) The youth, who are already facing a steep price left by their parents (exorbitantly housing prices, climate change etc.), has been forced to sacrifice their most precious years to save people who would have likely died anyway
5) Basic civics and political philosophy should be mandatory for school children
6) People who climb into the ivory tower, proclaiming moral and intellectually superiority, are usually the first to ostracize those who think differently, and are likely the first to promote fascism/autocratism to preserve their safety
7) Most people have a flawed idea of "science"
8) People wearing masks in public need to re-evaluate the actual and more immediate dangers
9) School-lockdowns are the worst thing you can ever do
10) At least people learned how to wash their hands

1) That's why they don't conduct health policy - they advise and provide field data. Conducting health policy is what the MPH degree confers qualification in.
2) Aphorisms are fun, but they don't preserve healthcare system capacity.
3) Define 'did little to actually save people' - I'm sure millions of survivors would disagree with you.
4) Define 'most precious years'...a lot of people under 30 I talked to over the last two years actually expressed surprise at how much their family bonds strengthened.
5) Agree
6) This is just ridiculous. If you actually understand how real science is conducted, there is no 'ivory tower'
7) Definitely agree - especially those disagreeing with experts based on internet and heresay 'knowledge'
8) Agree, people have gone too far with that, but the driver is media hype and fear of other people's irresponsible behavior
9) Define 'worst thing you can ever do'. This kind of hyperbole is useless. Pretty sure use of munitions on civilians and battering intimate partners are far worse.
10) Sure, that never hurt anybody

Aaron747 wrote:

fallap wrote:

1) Doctors, Ph.D's and professors in medicine are terrific in being experts in their fields, but are not necessarily qualified to conduct health policies
2) There is more to life than simply staying alive
3) Democracies we thought were stable proved capable of enforcing draconian laws of containment that did little to actually save people from the virus, but did make life unbearable for the most of us by enforcing silly mandates that served little - save symbolic - value.
4) The youth, who are already facing a steep price left by their parents (exorbitantly housing prices, climate change etc.), has been forced to sacrifice their most precious years to save people who would have likely died anyway
5) Basic civics and political philosophy should be mandatory for school children
6) People who climb into the ivory tower, proclaiming moral and intellectually superiority, are usually the first to ostracize those who think differently, and are likely the first to promote fascism/autocratism to preserve their safety
7) Most people have a flawed idea of "science"
8) People wearing masks in public need to re-evaluate the actual and more immediate dangers
9) School-lockdowns are the worst thing you can ever do
10) At least people learned how to wash their hands

1) That's why they don't conduct health policy - they advise and provide field data. Conducting health policy is what the MPH degree confers qualification in.
2) Aphorisms are fun, but they don't preserve healthcare system capacity.
3) Define 'did little to actually save people' - I'm sure millions of survivors would disagree with you.
4) Define 'most precious years'...a lot of people under 30 I talked to over the last two years actually expressed surprise at how much their family bonds strengthened.
5) Agree
6) This is just ridiculous. If you actually understand how real science is conducted, there is no 'ivory tower'
7) Definitely agree - especially those disagreeing with experts based on internet and heresay 'knowledge'
8) Agree, people have gone too far with that, but the driver is media hype and fear of other people's irresponsible behavior
9) Define 'worst thing you can ever do'. This kind of hyperbole is useless. Pretty sure use of munitions on civilians and battering intimate partners are far worse.
10) Sure, that never hurt anybody

1) The nearly god-like status given to health-care experts
2) The healthcare system capacity has never been close to reach maximium capacity, at least not here in Denmark, and if so, then it is more of a broader issue with recruitment and retainment and funding as opposed to Covid19
3) Millions saved by lock-down? I would love to see the numbers affirming that. Also, that does not justify enforcing draconian laws such as mandatory vaccines like that of Austria '.
4) You are only 17 years once, but 70 for all eternity
6) I have taken several courses in science, in fact, I have a degree in social sciences. The ivory tower is populated by people who have ostrizied people who dared having a different opinion and who were sceptical of the mandates forced down our throats.
8) My problem, following point 7) is the accusations of "irresponsible behavior" - I have partied and had a gazillion Tinder dates and enjoyed life during the pandemic. Because life is bloody too well short to let the best parts of life slip by. And I am damn well tired of the populated Ivory towers pointing fingers at people who's only crime was to enjoy life in the face of a virus that does almost little harm to young and healthy people. Hell, everyone on my dormitory hall has had Covid-19, and no-one was more sick than a regular flu.
9) Look, if you're gonna use the "well, a nuclear bomb is worse" argument, then I have better things to do. I've had university classes on Zoom, and that was painstaking. Imaging being a kid, away from your friends and teachers, away from your daily habbits - which are absolutely important in that age. Then comes kids from low-socio-economic backgrounds who are already falling behind!

fallap wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

fallap wrote:

1) Doctors, Ph.D's and professors in medicine are terrific in being experts in their fields, but are not necessarily qualified to conduct health policies
2) There is more to life than simply staying alive
3) Democracies we thought were stable proved capable of enforcing draconian laws of containment that did little to actually save people from the virus, but did make life unbearable for the most of us by enforcing silly mandates that served little - save symbolic - value.
4) The youth, who are already facing a steep price left by their parents (exorbitantly housing prices, climate change etc.), has been forced to sacrifice their most precious years to save people who would have likely died anyway
5) Basic civics and political philosophy should be mandatory for school children
6) People who climb into the ivory tower, proclaiming moral and intellectually superiority, are usually the first to ostracize those who think differently, and are likely the first to promote fascism/autocratism to preserve their safety
7) Most people have a flawed idea of "science"
8) People wearing masks in public need to re-evaluate the actual and more immediate dangers
9) School-lockdowns are the worst thing you can ever do
10) At least people learned how to wash their hands

1) That's why they don't conduct health policy - they advise and provide field data. Conducting health policy is what the MPH degree confers qualification in.
2) Aphorisms are fun, but they don't preserve healthcare system capacity.
3) Define 'did little to actually save people' - I'm sure millions of survivors would disagree with you.
4) Define 'most precious years'...a lot of people under 30 I talked to over the last two years actually expressed surprise at how much their family bonds strengthened.
5) Agree
6) This is just ridiculous. If you actually understand how real science is conducted, there is no 'ivory tower'
7) Definitely agree - especially those disagreeing with experts based on internet and heresay 'knowledge'
8) Agree, people have gone too far with that, but the driver is media hype and fear of other people's irresponsible behavior
9) Define 'worst thing you can ever do'. This kind of hyperbole is useless. Pretty sure use of munitions on civilians and battering intimate partners are far worse.
10) Sure, that never hurt anybody

1) The nearly god-like status given to health-care experts
2) The healthcare system capacity has never been close to reach maximium capacity, at least not here in Denmark, and if so, then it is more of a broader issue with recruitment and retainment and funding as opposed to Covid19
3) Millions saved by lock-down? I would love to see the numbers affirming that. Also, that does not justify enforcing draconian laws such as mandatory vaccines like that of Austria '.
4) You are only 17 years once, but 70 for all eternity
6) I have taken several courses in science, in fact, I have a degree in social sciences. The ivory tower is populated by people who have ostrizied people who dared having a different opinion and who were sceptical of the mandates forced down our throats.
8) My problem, following point 7) is the accusations of "irresponsible behavior" - I have partied and had a gazillion Tinder dates and enjoyed life during the pandemic. Because life is bloody too well short to let the best parts of life slip by. And I am damn well tired of the populated Ivory towers pointing fingers at people who's only crime was to enjoy life in the face of a virus that does almost little harm to young and healthy people. Hell, everyone on my dormitory hall has had Covid-19, and no-one was more sick than a regular flu.
9) Look, if you're gonna use the "well, a nuclear bomb is worse" argument, then I have better things to do. I've had university classes on Zoom, and that was painstaking. Imaging being a kid, away from your friends and teachers, away from your daily habbits - which are absolutely important in that age. Then comes kids from low-socio-economic backgrounds who are already falling behind!

1) They are trained in analysis and methods laymen are not, full stop. People questioning their knowledge or analysis have no basis to do so unless they are also data scientists or familiar with scaled mitigation approaches. No different than noobs who come on here and try to tell pilots/technicians everything they know is wrong.

2) Public health managers look at everything from a triage perspective. If the trendlines show significant possible impact, they will recommend mitigation. Simple as that.

3) Lockdowns definitely saved lives - numerous studies have already borne that out. If you have data showing they had no effect, let's see it. How they were communicated and administered was problematic, but that is to be expected with such large undertakings planned last-minute. Plenty of lessons to be learned for how to fine-tune and minimize public/economic disruption at scale in similar future events. It's all about preparation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _March.pdf
https://record.umich.edu/articles/lockd ... g-forward/

4) More aphorisms? Come on...how about this one? Life is life.

6) Social science is arguably quite different from hard sciences like the earth or biological fields. As I said, if people were questioning public health decisions based on spurious online information, they invited such criticism. Informed and uninformed opinions are not equal.

7/8) Yes, that's irresponsible behavior. Your choice of course, but others have a right to characterize it as they see fit. In a situation where at-risk populations required protection in an evolving situation, that behavior is easy to call irresponsible. Those of us less emotional about it simply changed our routines, found ways to enjoy things that didn't involve putting others at risk, and so on. I went to the beach and hiked a lot more, just as one example.

9) Sorry, not sorry. Not a fan of hyperbole, never have been.

Aaron747 wrote:

fallap wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

1) That's why they don't conduct health policy - they advise and provide field data. Conducting health policy is what the MPH degree confers qualification in.
2) Aphorisms are fun, but they don't preserve healthcare system capacity.
3) Define 'did little to actually save people' - I'm sure millions of survivors would disagree with you.
4) Define 'most precious years'...a lot of people under 30 I talked to over the last two years actually expressed surprise at how much their family bonds strengthened.
5) Agree
6) This is just ridiculous. If you actually understand how real science is conducted, there is no 'ivory tower'
7) Definitely agree - especially those disagreeing with experts based on internet and heresay 'knowledge'
8) Agree, people have gone too far with that, but the driver is media hype and fear of other people's irresponsible behavior
9) Define 'worst thing you can ever do'. This kind of hyperbole is useless. Pretty sure use of munitions on civilians and battering intimate partners are far worse.
10) Sure, that never hurt anybody

1) The nearly god-like status given to health-care experts
2) The healthcare system capacity has never been close to reach maximium capacity, at least not here in Denmark, and if so, then it is more of a broader issue with recruitment and retainment and funding as opposed to Covid19
3) Millions saved by lock-down? I would love to see the numbers affirming that. Also, that does not justify enforcing draconian laws such as mandatory vaccines like that of Austria '.
4) You are only 17 years once, but 70 for all eternity
6) I have taken several courses in science, in fact, I have a degree in social sciences. The ivory tower is populated by people who have ostrizied people who dared having a different opinion and who were sceptical of the mandates forced down our throats.
8) My problem, following point 7) is the accusations of "irresponsible behavior" - I have partied and had a gazillion Tinder dates and enjoyed life during the pandemic. Because life is bloody too well short to let the best parts of life slip by. And I am damn well tired of the populated Ivory towers pointing fingers at people who's only crime was to enjoy life in the face of a virus that does almost little harm to young and healthy people. Hell, everyone on my dormitory hall has had Covid-19, and no-one was more sick than a regular flu.
9) Look, if you're gonna use the "well, a nuclear bomb is worse" argument, then I have better things to do. I've had university classes on Zoom, and that was painstaking. Imaging being a kid, away from your friends and teachers, away from your daily habbits - which are absolutely important in that age. Then comes kids from low-socio-economic backgrounds who are already falling behind!

1) They are trained in analysis and methods laymen are not, full stop. People questioning their knowledge or analysis have no basis to do so unless they are also data scientists or familiar with scaled mitigation approaches. No different than noobs who come on here and try to tell pilots/technicians everything they know is wrong.

2) Public health managers look at everything from a triage perspective. If the trendlines show significant possible impact, they will recommend mitigation. Simple as that.

3) Lockdowns definitely saved lives - numerous studies have already borne that out. If you have data showing they had no effect, let's see it. How they were communicated and administered was problematic, but that is to be expected with such large undertakings planned last-minute. Plenty of lessons to be learned for how to fine-tune and minimize public/economic disruption at scale in similar future events. It's all about preparation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _March.pdf
https://record.umich.edu/articles/lockd ... g-forward/

4) More aphorisms? Come on...how about this one? Life is life.

6) Social science is arguably quite different from hard sciences like the earth or biological fields. As I said, if people were questioning public health decisions based on spurious online information, they invited such criticism. Informed and uninformed opinions are not equal.

7/8) Yes, that's irresponsible behavior. Your choice of course, but others have a right to characterize it as they see fit. In a situation where at-risk populations required protection in an evolving situation, that behavior is easy to call irresponsible. Those of us less emotional about it simply changed our routines, found ways to enjoy things that didn't involve putting others at risk, and so on. I went to the beach and hiked a lot more, just as one example.

9) Sorry, not sorry. Not a fan of hyperbole, never have been.

1) I don't question their knowledge regarding their specific field of study, in this case medicine. But I am critical of the adverse consequences of lock-downs and other restrictions imposed on the grounds of a narrowed medical perspective.
2) That made sense during the first round, as did the various restrictions - before we realised that Covid-19 was not that bad after all. I am not criticizing the restrictions per see, rather that they were kept in place for too long, too arbitrarily, and rocked the liberal foundation of our modern democracies too hard. The mandatory vaccination policies of Austria - where non-vaccinated were fined tremendously - ought to stand as a pillar of shame for all eternity. The policies of no-tolerance of say Australia and New Zealand, and the UK forbidding people to sleep in a home not their own. How far are we really going to uphold our safety? This is not a question of natural science, it's a question of what kind of society and state you and I want to live in.
3) Forget about that one then, we can spew statistics at each other all night - in fact, I am more concerned about the philosophically aspect anyway. Also, the only sources I've got are in Danish...
4) There you go again. Have you been locked up for too long? Forgotten how it is to enjoy a night out at a smoke-filled bar and hooking up with that tall redhead gal out in the back-alley? Or have all the fumes from the disinfectant gel been getting to your mind? Yes, we should protect the frail and weak - but eventually you reach that damned point where our quest for survival reaches the obscure point where we have survived past the point of survival - where there is nothing left to save. Call that aphorism all you want, I call it life.
6) Their field of study are different but the scientific core values remain somewhat the same. Pardon me, I never cared that much for the "scientific part", albeit the statistic part I find interesting. What people - in my opinion when I see them crawl the Ivory tower and yell "science" - for me, seems to be adherent to the antiquated school of positivism. That the findings of science are carved in rock, they are not - they have yet to be falsified. Alright, I'm venturing into thin ice. But yelling "science" by all parts, right and wrong, at times seem to be a substitute for critical thinking.
7/8 Well I've always been irresponsible. Hiking was definitely something I enjoyed a lot more, especially with a book or three.
9) I respect your opinion, but I am simply concerned about the negative impact the lock-downs had on the parts of the population who were already vulnerable, and who were not at risk.


I am sorry for being the designated jerk, but I am just concerned about keeping a balance between the population health and our right as citizens to lead a life in relative freedom. There IS the social contract pr. Rousseau, but I stand firm in my belief that certain states have grossly overstepped their boundaries for what they can ask of their citizens.

Here’s a great response to the question!

https://youtu.be/sxUAGJ70W70

fallap wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

fallap wrote:

1) The nearly god-like status given to health-care experts
2) The healthcare system capacity has never been close to reach maximium capacity, at least not here in Denmark, and if so, then it is more of a broader issue with recruitment and retainment and funding as opposed to Covid19
3) Millions saved by lock-down? I would love to see the numbers affirming that. Also, that does not justify enforcing draconian laws such as mandatory vaccines like that of Austria '.
4) You are only 17 years once, but 70 for all eternity
6) I have taken several courses in science, in fact, I have a degree in social sciences. The ivory tower is populated by people who have ostrizied people who dared having a different opinion and who were sceptical of the mandates forced down our throats.
8) My problem, following point 7) is the accusations of "irresponsible behavior" - I have partied and had a gazillion Tinder dates and enjoyed life during the pandemic. Because life is bloody too well short to let the best parts of life slip by. And I am damn well tired of the populated Ivory towers pointing fingers at people who's only crime was to enjoy life in the face of a virus that does almost little harm to young and healthy people. Hell, everyone on my dormitory hall has had Covid-19, and no-one was more sick than a regular flu.
9) Look, if you're gonna use the "well, a nuclear bomb is worse" argument, then I have better things to do. I've had university classes on Zoom, and that was painstaking. Imaging being a kid, away from your friends and teachers, away from your daily habbits - which are absolutely important in that age. Then comes kids from low-socio-economic backgrounds who are already falling behind!

1) They are trained in analysis and methods laymen are not, full stop. People questioning their knowledge or analysis have no basis to do so unless they are also data scientists or familiar with scaled mitigation approaches. No different than noobs who come on here and try to tell pilots/technicians everything they know is wrong.

2) Public health managers look at everything from a triage perspective. If the trendlines show significant possible impact, they will recommend mitigation. Simple as that.

3) Lockdowns definitely saved lives - numerous studies have already borne that out. If you have data showing they had no effect, let's see it. How they were communicated and administered was problematic, but that is to be expected with such large undertakings planned last-minute. Plenty of lessons to be learned for how to fine-tune and minimize public/economic disruption at scale in similar future events. It's all about preparation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _March.pdf
https://record.umich.edu/articles/lockd ... g-forward/

4) More aphorisms? Come on...how about this one? Life is life.

6) Social science is arguably quite different from hard sciences like the earth or biological fields. As I said, if people were questioning public health decisions based on spurious online information, they invited such criticism. Informed and uninformed opinions are not equal.

7/8) Yes, that's irresponsible behavior. Your choice of course, but others have a right to characterize it as they see fit. In a situation where at-risk populations required protection in an evolving situation, that behavior is easy to call irresponsible. Those of us less emotional about it simply changed our routines, found ways to enjoy things that didn't involve putting others at risk, and so on. I went to the beach and hiked a lot more, just as one example.

9) Sorry, not sorry. Not a fan of hyperbole, never have been.

1) I don't question their knowledge regarding their specific field of study, in this case medicine. But I am critical of the adverse consequences of lock-downs and other restrictions imposed on the grounds of a narrowed medical perspective.
2) That made sense during the first round, as did the various restrictions - before we realised that Covid-19 was not that bad after all. I am not criticizing the restrictions per see, rather that they were kept in place for too long, too arbitrarily, and rocked the liberal foundation of our modern democracies too hard. The mandatory vaccination policies of Austria - where non-vaccinated were fined tremendously - ought to stand as a pillar of shame for all eternity. The policies of no-tolerance of say Australia and New Zealand, and the UK forbidding people to sleep in a home not their own. How far are we really going to uphold our safety? This is not a question of natural science, it's a question of what kind of society and state you and I want to live in.
3) Forget about that one then, we can spew statistics at each other all night - in fact, I am more concerned about the philosophically aspect anyway. Also, the only sources I've got are in Danish...
4) There you go again. Have you been locked up for too long? Forgotten how it is to enjoy a night out at a smoke-filled bar and hooking up with that tall redhead gal out in the back-alley? Or have all the fumes from the disinfectant gel been getting to your mind? Yes, we should protect the frail and weak - but eventually you reach that damned point where our quest for survival reaches the obscure point where we have survived past the point of survival - where there is nothing left to save. Call that aphorism all you want, I call it life.
6) Their field of study are different but the scientific core values remain somewhat the same. Pardon me, I never cared that much for the "scientific part", albeit the statistic part I find interesting. What people - in my opinion when I see them crawl the Ivory tower and yell "science" - for me, seems to be adherent to the antiquated school of positivism. That the findings of science are carved in rock, they are not - they have yet to be falsified. Alright, I'm venturing into thin ice. But yelling "science" by all parts, right and wrong, at times seem to be a substitute for critical thinking.
7/8 Well I've always been irresponsible. Hiking was definitely something I enjoyed a lot more, especially with a book or three.
9) I respect your opinion, but I am simply concerned about the negative impact the lock-downs had on the parts of the population who were already vulnerable, and who were not at risk.


I am sorry for being the designated jerk, but I am just concerned about keeping a balance between the population health and our right as citizens to lead a life in relative freedom. There IS the social contract pr. Rousseau, but I stand firm in my belief that certain states have grossly overstepped their boundaries for what they can ask of their citizens.

I don't understand what a 'narrowed medical perspective' insinuates. Public health management and medical management are not one and the same. Public health management is medical care at scale - totally different animal, and certainly not narrow. You do understand what scale means, yes?

Scientists are often the last people with expertise who will tell you their findings are carved in rock, and except for a few who could be accurately termed alarmists, most of the so-called 'big names' in public health couched many of their statements with typical scientific qualifiers like 'at this time', 'based on the current data', 'things could look different a month from now', 'it's hard to say for certain' and so on.

It's fine to be concerned about negative impact of lock-downs, any of us in susceptible industries were, but criticism of communication/PR competence and policy forethought is a discussion to be had rationally, not by shouting absurdities like 'fascism' and 'they're doing a permanent PONR power grab'...that's just silly hyperbole for people without emotional control. Constructive criticism aims to do better next time, and analyze points to learn from, not score political/populist points.

Aaron747 wrote:

fallap wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

1) They are trained in analysis and methods laymen are not, full stop. People questioning their knowledge or analysis have no basis to do so unless they are also data scientists or familiar with scaled mitigation approaches. No different than noobs who come on here and try to tell pilots/technicians everything they know is wrong.

2) Public health managers look at everything from a triage perspective. If the trendlines show significant possible impact, they will recommend mitigation. Simple as that.

3) Lockdowns definitely saved lives - numerous studies have already borne that out. If you have data showing they had no effect, let's see it. How they were communicated and administered was problematic, but that is to be expected with such large undertakings planned last-minute. Plenty of lessons to be learned for how to fine-tune and minimize public/economic disruption at scale in similar future events. It's all about preparation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _March.pdf
https://record.umich.edu/articles/lockd ... g-forward/

4) More aphorisms? Come on...how about this one? Life is life.

6) Social science is arguably quite different from hard sciences like the earth or biological fields. As I said, if people were questioning public health decisions based on spurious online information, they invited such criticism. Informed and uninformed opinions are not equal.

7/8) Yes, that's irresponsible behavior. Your choice of course, but others have a right to characterize it as they see fit. In a situation where at-risk populations required protection in an evolving situation, that behavior is easy to call irresponsible. Those of us less emotional about it simply changed our routines, found ways to enjoy things that didn't involve putting others at risk, and so on. I went to the beach and hiked a lot more, just as one example.

9) Sorry, not sorry. Not a fan of hyperbole, never have been.

1) I don't question their knowledge regarding their specific field of study, in this case medicine. But I am critical of the adverse consequences of lock-downs and other restrictions imposed on the grounds of a narrowed medical perspective.
2) That made sense during the first round, as did the various restrictions - before we realised that Covid-19 was not that bad after all. I am not criticizing the restrictions per see, rather that they were kept in place for too long, too arbitrarily, and rocked the liberal foundation of our modern democracies too hard. The mandatory vaccination policies of Austria - where non-vaccinated were fined tremendously - ought to stand as a pillar of shame for all eternity. The policies of no-tolerance of say Australia and New Zealand, and the UK forbidding people to sleep in a home not their own. How far are we really going to uphold our safety? This is not a question of natural science, it's a question of what kind of society and state you and I want to live in.
3) Forget about that one then, we can spew statistics at each other all night - in fact, I am more concerned about the philosophically aspect anyway. Also, the only sources I've got are in Danish...
4) There you go again. Have you been locked up for too long? Forgotten how it is to enjoy a night out at a smoke-filled bar and hooking up with that tall redhead gal out in the back-alley? Or have all the fumes from the disinfectant gel been getting to your mind? Yes, we should protect the frail and weak - but eventually you reach that damned point where our quest for survival reaches the obscure point where we have survived past the point of survival - where there is nothing left to save. Call that aphorism all you want, I call it life.
6) Their field of study are different but the scientific core values remain somewhat the same. Pardon me, I never cared that much for the "scientific part", albeit the statistic part I find interesting. What people - in my opinion when I see them crawl the Ivory tower and yell "science" - for me, seems to be adherent to the antiquated school of positivism. That the findings of science are carved in rock, they are not - they have yet to be falsified. Alright, I'm venturing into thin ice. But yelling "science" by all parts, right and wrong, at times seem to be a substitute for critical thinking.
7/8 Well I've always been irresponsible. Hiking was definitely something I enjoyed a lot more, especially with a book or three.
9) I respect your opinion, but I am simply concerned about the negative impact the lock-downs had on the parts of the population who were already vulnerable, and who were not at risk.


I am sorry for being the designated jerk, but I am just concerned about keeping a balance between the population health and our right as citizens to lead a life in relative freedom. There IS the social contract pr. Rousseau, but I stand firm in my belief that certain states have grossly overstepped their boundaries for what they can ask of their citizens.

I don't understand what a 'narrowed medical perspective' insinuates. Public health management and medical management are not one and the same. Public health management is medical care at scale - totally different animal, and certainly not narrow. You do understand what scale means, yes?

Scientists are often the last people with expertise who will tell you their findings are carved in rock, and except for a few who could be accurately termed alarmists, most of the so-called 'big names' in public health couched many of their statements with typical scientific qualifiers like 'at this time', 'based on the current data', 'things could look different a month from now', 'it's hard to say for certain' and so on.

It's fine to be concerned about negative impact of lock-downs, any of us in susceptible industries were, but criticism of communication/PR competence and policy forethought is a discussion to be had rationally, not by shouting absurdities like 'fascism' and 'they're doing a permanent PONR power grab'...that's just silly hyperbole for people without emotional control. Constructive criticism aims to do better next time, and analyze points to learn from, not score political/populist points.

Basically, people want to go on with their finite lives instead of sitting home withering away. My last cents.

Probably would have told myself to NOT interview or take the offer to switch teams; to stay put with your program which will have loads of business.

April 2020 was when everything went downhill for me and led me to multiple career moves in the span of a year. I still look back with regret to when I applied to a different position all because all I did in the one I had was press the same buttons over and over again, day in and day out. I'd still be in WA living it up and though I'm back with my former employer, having to move back to the East and then the Midwest is exhausting.

Oh, and would have also told myself that getting Covid even while vaccinated+boosted can knock you out so ensure you're protected. That means wearing masks or asking people to wear masks when you can't (this means barbershops).

And finally, come out to mom. She knows and happy you're happy.

einsteinboricua wrote:

And finally, come out to mom. She knows and happy you're happy.

Always a huge relief for any of my friends/relatives who have. Congrats!

Aaron747 wrote:

Always a huge relief for any of my friends/relatives who have. Congrats!

Wis it would have been under happier circumstances...I had just broken up with my boyfriend and fell into a slump wondering if I had done the right thing. She called, upset that I hadn't called her in over a week and berating me for it, and when I told her that I had other things, she toned it down and probed some more until the truth came out.

The subject is still kinda taboo for me...like I don't want to discuss my private life with her BUT at least I can be open about it.

Buy paper towels.

I wouldn't tell myself anything, but I would have liked to have been given an opportunity to call my longtime friend who died of Cov19 in the beginning and tell him not to go to Palm Desert to golf. It was during this trip, he caught Cov19, came home very sick, both he and his wife were hospitalized and he died alone while his wife was in a coma, and his family was not allowed to see him. She made it, but his death was senseless. He was a wonderful person. He used to quote from famous books, and ask me who he was quoting. He was wealthy, but also generous with his time, and let me tag along with his family on some great trips. You don't realize until someone is gone, how much you appreciated them. I came from modest home and felt lucky that he saw something in me and took me under his wings to mentor. The whole thing is very sad and senseless. Just like this war in Ukraine.

Not to have gone outside on 13/3 this year.

If I had stayed home I’d be walking and healthy. Now I’m wrecked for heck knows how much of the rest of the year.

I avoided Covid so far as I can tell and kept my life fairly normal but end up having major surgery and a long recovery. Everything I took for granted and loved to do is not possible at the moment and I don’t know what the future holds.

Worse I need assistance to do simple things. I’m trying to remain positive but it’s not easy.

DLFreebird: that’s a terrible case. Covid is not to be taken lightly.

To not get the J&J vaccine.

CitizenJustin wrote:

To not get the J&J vaccine.

Why’s that? I only ask because that’s what I had gotten about a year ago.