Such a terrible way to treat your staff.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60779001

The spokesman said the government had not been given any notice of the action, saying it did not agree with the so-called fire and rehire practice of sacking workers and re-employing them on different terms.P&O is owned by DP World, the multi-national ports and logistics company based in Dubai. It paid a £270m dividend to shareholders in 2020.

Fire and re-hire might be the easiest way to get "qualified" staff, but it also adds the risk of future problems. If they are hiring Dubai citizens then one hopes they all speak at least English.

Personally I'll pass on P&O in the future as I would be concerned about the safety and some weird staff going off their rocker.

I can also hope that the ULK delivers new staff requirements in the areas of training and experience. Staffing rosters might also need new standards.

Politicians can do a lot to make P&O regret this decision and I hope they move fast.

The best commentary on the topic goes to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMm-gd-TlI0

Politicians currently in power in the UK made this possible, I don't see why they would object.

Aesma wrote:

Politicians currently in power in the UK made this possible, I don't see why they would object.

True and those affected, as I agree with the commentator posted above for the reason this happened fundamentally, like the farmers and fishermen who voted the same way, haven't the balls to do anything about. Maybe take a leaf out of those who blocked motorways, try calling these ferry workers and the above as 'lazy, lefty, snowflake, hippies etc.

Notoriously the main Tory cheerleaders for it wrote a slim book 'Britannia Unchained' which called British workers the laziest in the world (not that any of them ever met any), as well as feckless and saw the EU as the main reason all these employment protection laws 'got in the way'. They are all ministers in the Cabinet of toxic clowns, Priti Patel, Liz Truss, Dominic Raab and Kwasi Kwateng.
And said book was seen on the floor of Johnson's car.

[quote="Ken777"]Fire and re-hire might be the easiest way to get "qualified" staff, but it also adds the risk of future problems. If they are hiring Dubai citizens then one hopes they all speak at least English.

Doubt that they are Dubai citizens.

Where they came from is anyone's guess.

One thing we do know is that they were all in place when the staff were informed.

Hope they know how to run these ships.

I doubt it is a case of turn the key and bob's our uncle.

bennett123 wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Fire and re-hire might be the easiest way to get "qualified" staff, but it also adds the risk of future problems. If they are hiring Dubai citizens then one hopes they all speak at least English.

Doubt that they are Dubai citizens.

Where they came from is anyone's guess.

One thing we do know is that they were all in place when the staff were informed.

Hope they know how to run these ships.

I doubt it is a case of turn the key and bob's our uncle.

Phillipines and Columbia have been mentioned.
And who was the PM begging with for oil with the day before? The Sultan of Dubai.
Could have been worse I suppose, one of his Oligrach mates, including the KGB officers FailSon he sent to the Lords.

GDB wrote:

bennett123 wrote:

Ken777 wrote:

Fire and re-hire might be the easiest way to get "qualified" staff, but it also adds the risk of future problems. If they are hiring Dubai citizens then one hopes they all speak at least English.

Doubt that they are Dubai citizens.

Where they came from is anyone's guess.

One thing we do know is that they were all in place when the staff were informed.

Hope they know how to run these ships.

I doubt it is a case of turn the key and bob's our uncle.

Philippines and Columbia have been mentioned.
And who was the PM begging for oil with them before? The Sultan of Dubai.
Could have been worse I suppose, one of his Oligarch mates, including the KGB officers FailSon he sent to the Lords.

It has been mentioned multiple times and multiple places that the owners of P&O are DP World which is owned by the Dubai Royal Family. Now as they own it, they see fit to do whatever. The whole game of the vote was to not to let foreigners take jobs but here it seems they can do whatever. Add to that as the YouTuber shared the new workers would be paid so less even with all the extra fees or whatnot it would be cheaper. The only losers in this whole ordeal would be the British ferry workers

Another thing that people haven't taken into account is that it has national security implications for the UK but when the party itself is sold out then nothing can be done.

This makes for some interesting reading as well -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 39198.html

Could they have done this in the way they have done it when they were EU members?

Dutchy wrote:

Could they have done this in the way they have done it when they were EU members?

Probably not. As I understand it, worker protection is one of the bedstones of the EU, but apparently, the UK didn't like that and wanted the fire and re-hire bit although in this case, other people seem to have been already hired. And of course, Uk citizens could also have found work in the other 26 odd countries but somehow they voted against their own interests.

Sad to hear & particularly nasty way to treat staff.

I've frequently travelled between Rotterdam & Hull prior to Covid and while they were nice trips i've seen prices increase while accommodations became cheaper to a point where it wasn't quite so enjoyable as it used to be. But i will say i am surprised about the surprise of more foreign workers coming onboard. I distinctly remember seeing more & more Filipino staff every time i stepped onboard. They were absolutely professional & did fine but the trend was definitely noticeable. Surely it can't be such a big surprise that they are going that way even more ?

The moral of the story, is to ensure you are constantly investing in your own personal skillset... don't rely on your employer to look after you.... and don't leave yourself in a vulnerable position for the day when an employer decides you are no longer required. If an employer knows that the staff can fairly easily find better paying jobs elsewhere, they will be incentivised to treat you right in the first place - or (if they still treat you like sh*t) you have the ability to move to a better job before the whole redundancy thing even starts

davidjohnson6 wrote:

The moral of the story, is to ensure you are constantly investing in your own personal skillset... don't rely on your employer to look after you.... and don't leave yourself in a vulnerable position for the day when an employer decides you are no longer required. If an employer knows that the staff can fairly easily find better-paying jobs elsewhere, they will be incentivized to treat you right in the first place - or (if they still treat you like sh*t) you have the ability to move to a better job before the whole redundancy thing even starts

Think it goes beyond that a bit. What has been happening not just in the UK but also in India and I suspect in quite a few countries too that companies are looking to hire cheaper staff and thinking only of short-term next quarter profits. There used to be something called 'institutional memory' where you wanted to have a healthy mix of new and old so that understanding and experience can be shared and the company grows.

I can tell you about my industry which is the software development and consultancy business. You used to have specific and special people who would get industry requirements and pass them on to the developers. Now companies think that any Tom, Dick, or Harry/Harriet can pull it off. But sadly that doesn't happen. I am sure there are many people here who understand nuance and also the story about how 5-6 people blindfolded are touching various parts of the elephant and thinking of something else. That's one of the reasons why so many projects fail, not clear enough communication. And after the 'Great Resignation' of the last 2 odd years, things have become worse. The only way companies thrive more often than not is nowadays corruption. They will give a flawed product/service, even the receiver which is usually a state or national body will happily receive it as a flawed product means it would need more fixing, so both job and commission are guaranteed. If there are any checks and balances, they would be made weaker. I know quite a few projects from the UK have come to India and have suffered through the same. For both parties, it is a win-win while the end-user that is the general public may be frustrated and maybe even abuse but that doesn't deter them at all.

9MMPQ wrote:

Sad to hear & particularly nasty way to treat staff.

I've frequently travelled between Rotterdam & Hull prior to Covid and while they were nice trips i've seen prices increase while accommodations became cheaper to a point where it wasn't quite so enjoyable as it used to be. But i will say i am surprised about the surprise of more foreign workers coming onboard. I distinctly remember seeing more & more Filipino staff every time i stepped onboard. They were absolutely professional & did fine but the trend was definitely noticeable. Surely it can't be such a big surprise that they are going that way even more ?

Totally nasty. How not to do HR 101. If an organization lacks the balls to dismiss people face to face, they should stop pretending to be a serious business.

It would seem that the company had staff lined up since Monday and sat in a hotel ready to go.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-60792999

This is priceless, the local MP for Dover, a real toxic thicko in the Dominic Raab sense, pretended to show 'solidarity'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZb8pJ8uv3g

Saw this earlier today and that also perhaps gives an accurate description of what has been going on -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGjgCbOXD2M

Saw this, apparently Govt. knew about the P&O workers dismissal and decided to do nothing according to Times UK -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06U5B_PH0OY

Dutchy wrote:

Could they have done this in the way they have done it when they were EU members?

SAS did something similar. Many employees were forces to leave due to Covid. SAS then started a new company to circumvent re-hiring laws.

According to the Guardian, the new Indian crews are being paid £1.80 ($2.38) an hour.

Absolutely shocking if true!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

What is the postion on the bridge crew, Captain,First office and so on,they must be in a safe postion surely.

Not sure about that.

Registered in the Bahamas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Pride_of_Hull

ReverseFlow wrote:

According to The Guardian, the new Indian crews are being paid £1.80 ($2.38) an hour.

Absolutely shocking if true!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

And what is the minimum wage for the same in the UK?

Edit: Apparently, it is 8 pounds 91 cents in the UK, minimum wage from the same guardian article.

Saw this, the amount of disconnect is Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWCpM9NfiBI

pune wrote:

Saw this, the amount of disconnect is Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWCpM9NfiBI

She’s just massively thick and nasty, prerequisites for this lot, look at others like Patel, Raab and of course he who calls himself the ‘Big Dog’.

This one was interviewed this morning, one of the interviewers is a well known financial journalist and advisor and the woman, had a sting in the tail, showing the government up for their mock concern, this is an employment environment they created, the cornerstone of the great con of 2016, well now some of those who voted for it are getting the rough end of the result:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYsDDz0uo4

GDB wrote:

pune wrote:

Saw this, the amount of disconnect is Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWCpM9NfiBI

She’s just massively thick and nasty, prerequisites for this lot, look at others like Patel, Raab and of course he who calls himself the ‘Big Dog’.

This one was interviewed this morning, one of the interviewers is a well known financial journalist and advisor and the woman, had a sting in the tail, showing the government up for their mock concern, this is an employment environment they created, the cornerstone of the great con of 2016, well now some of those who voted for it are getting the rough end of the result:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYsDDz0uo4

Agreed. And from what little I know of the 70s and 80s wasn't that Margaret Thatcher through her policies butchered a whole lot of manufacturing in the UK. The way things seem to be going, perhaps the UK will again be called the sick man of Europe

Dutchy wrote:

Could they have done this in the way they have done it when they were EU members?

The answer to the question is they didn’t fire there Dutch, French and Irish citizen workers, only the British.

pune wrote:

GDB wrote:

pune wrote:

Saw this, the amount of disconnect is Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWCpM9NfiBI

She’s just massively thick and nasty, prerequisites for this lot, look at others like Patel, Raab and of course he who calls himself the ‘Big Dog’.

This one was interviewed this morning, one of the interviewers is a well known financial journalist and advisor and the woman, had a sting in the tail, showing the government up for their mock concern, this is an employment environment they created, the cornerstone of the great con of 2016, well now some of those who voted for it are getting the rough end of the result:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYsDDz0uo4

Agreed. And from what little I know of the 70s and 80s wasn't that Margaret Thatcher through her policies butchered a whole lot of manufacturing in the UK. The way things seem to be going, perhaps the UK will again be called the sick man of Europe

Not really correct British manufacturing was already dying she just finished it off. It would have ended with or with out her.

readytotaxi wrote:

What is the postion on the bridge crew, Captain,First office and so on,they must be in a safe postion surely.

Also laid off.

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

GDB wrote:

She’s just massively thick and nasty, prerequisites for this lot, look at others like Patel, Raab and of course he who calls himself the ‘Big Dog’.

This one was interviewed this morning, one of the interviewers is a well known financial journalist and advisor and the woman, had a sting in the tail, showing the government up for their mock concern, this is an employment environment they created, the cornerstone of the great con of 2016, well now some of those who voted for it are getting the rough end of the result:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYsDDz0uo4

Agreed. And from what little I know of the 70s and 80s wasn't that Margaret Thatcher through her policies butchered a whole lot of manufacturing in the UK. The way things seem to be going, perhaps the UK will again be called the sick man of Europe

Not really correct British manufacturing was already dying she just finished it off. It would have ended with or with out her.

She got in just as North Sea revenues was coming in, whoever was in power had a one off opportunity not to nationalize but the plan to jack interest rates and back a high value £ was deliberate to ‘bring people in line’ with the mass unemployment.
They said it was all due to the unions who it was has to be said acted back then just like the bankers in the decades since, as a self interest group with massive power who saw themselves as apart from society, however in the 40 odd years since Thatcher stripped most of their power but the issues cited then still exist, namely poor productivity due to low investment compared to competitors.

And has created the employment situation faced by these P and O employees , I know you seem to hate the country you live in but what they did with the same windfall, from the same source, is looked upon with envy here and a missed opportunity.
Apparently Thatcher in her memoirs was unaware of the huge industrial, technical, logistical and if you recall Piper Alpha, dangerous exercise barely rates a mention, a paragraph. Of course, cannot deny her genius could she?
Without that oil she would have floundered early on, in 1981 after mass civil unrest she came to being deposed from within as it was.

Aaron747 wrote:

9MMPQ wrote:

Sad to hear & particularly nasty way to treat staff.

I've frequently travelled between Rotterdam & Hull prior to Covid and while they were nice trips i've seen prices increase while accommodations became cheaper to a point where it wasn't quite so enjoyable as it used to be. But i will say i am surprised about the surprise of more foreign workers coming onboard. I distinctly remember seeing more & more Filipino staff every time i stepped onboard. They were absolutely professional & did fine but the trend was definitely noticeable. Surely it can't be such a big surprise that they are going that way even more ?

Totally nasty. How not to do HR 101. If an organization lacks the balls to dismiss people face to face, they should stop pretending to be a serious business.

Well, they don't have any more of those pesky EU rules and regulations governing the size of a pillow, or how to treat employees. So i expect we'll see much more of this sort of thing in the near future.

Redd wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

9MMPQ wrote:

Sad to hear & particularly nasty way to treat staff.

I've frequently travelled between Rotterdam & Hull prior to Covid and while they were nice trips i've seen prices increase while accommodations became cheaper to a point where it wasn't quite so enjoyable as it used to be. But i will say i am surprised about the surprise of more foreign workers coming onboard. I distinctly remember seeing more & more Filipino staff every time i stepped onboard. They were absolutely professional & did fine but the trend was definitely noticeable. Surely it can't be such a big surprise that they are going that way even more ?

Totally nasty. How not to do HR 101. If an organization lacks the balls to dismiss people face to face, they should stop pretending to be a serious business.

Well, they don't have any more of those pesky EU rules and regulations governing the size of a pillow, or how to treat employees. So i expect we'll see much more of this sort of thing in the near future.

Probably so - that doesn't make it right. Great people leaders preach the maxim: 'you'll never harm reputation or the business by doing the right thing'

GDB wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

pune wrote:

Agreed. And from what little I know of the 70s and 80s wasn't that Margaret Thatcher through her policies butchered a whole lot of manufacturing in the UK. The way things seem to be going, perhaps the UK will again be called the sick man of Europe

Not really correct British manufacturing was already dying she just finished it off. It would have ended with or without her.

She got in just as North Sea revenues were coming in, whoever was in power had a one-off opportunity not to nationalize but the plan to jack interest rates and back a high-value £ was deliberate to ‘bring people in line with the mass unemployment.
They said it was all due to the unions who it was has to be said acted back then just like the bankers in the decades since, as a self-interest group with massive power who saw themselves as apart from society, however in the 40 odd years since Thatcher stripped most of their power but the issues cited then still exist, namely poor productivity due to low investment compared to competitors.

And has created the employment situation faced by these P and O employees, I know you seem to hate the country you live in but what they did with the same windfall, from the same source, is looked upon with envy here and a missed opportunity.
Apparently, Thatcher in her memoirs was unaware of the huge industrial, technical, logistical and if you recall Piper Alpha, dangerous exercise barely rates a mention, a paragraph. Of course, cannot deny her genius could she?
Without that oil, she would have floundered early on, in 1981 after mass civil unrest she came to being deposed from within as it was.

I don't hate the country I live in, I do hate a few fellow countrymen as they have made this place a living hell. They are playing a majority card and inciting hate about minorities. And as far as economics is concerned, the views that are in the UK are similar here, they are doing mass privatizations even after seeing that in so many cases privatizations actually erode whatever little accountability has been left. On top of it, they are dismantling railway stations and whatnot in the name of one thing or the other. And a lot of people aren't educated in my country so they easily fall into many of the traps laid by our political parties. And of course, accountability is zero. Do you know our PM has not had a press conference for over 7 years? And whatever journalists he takes with him are those who won't ask the PM tough questions and let him get away with any nonsense. It looks like both India and UK destinies have been written by the same hand - Russia

pune wrote:

GDB wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

Not really correct British manufacturing was already dying she just finished it off. It would have ended with or without her.

She got in just as North Sea revenues were coming in, whoever was in power had a one-off opportunity not to nationalize but the plan to jack interest rates and back a high-value £ was deliberate to ‘bring people in line with the mass unemployment.
They said it was all due to the unions who it was has to be said acted back then just like the bankers in the decades since, as a self-interest group with massive power who saw themselves as apart from society, however in the 40 odd years since Thatcher stripped most of their power but the issues cited then still exist, namely poor productivity due to low investment compared to competitors.

And has created the employment situation faced by these P and O employees, I know you seem to hate the country you live in but what they did with the same windfall, from the same source, is looked upon with envy here and a missed opportunity.
Apparently, Thatcher in her memoirs was unaware of the huge industrial, technical, logistical and if you recall Piper Alpha, dangerous exercise barely rates a mention, a paragraph. Of course, cannot deny her genius could she?
Without that oil, she would have floundered early on, in 1981 after mass civil unrest she came to being deposed from within as it was.

I don't hate the country I live in, I do hate a few fellow countrymen as they have made this place a living hell. They are playing a majority card and inciting hate about minorities. And as far as economics is concerned, the views that are in the UK are similar here, they are doing mass privatizations even after seeing that in so many cases privatizations actually erode whatever little accountability has been left. On top of it, they are dismantling railway stations and whatnot in the name of one thing or the other. And a lot of people aren't educated in my country so they easily fall into many of the traps laid by our political parties. And of course, accountability is zero. Do you know our PM has not had a press conference for over 7 years? And whatever journalists he takes with him are those who won't ask the PM tough questions and let him get away with any nonsense. It looks like both India and UK destinies have been written by the same hand - Russia

Replying to Kiwirob who always seems to be upset at being in Norway. Hence the oil comparison.

GDB wrote:

pune wrote:

GDB wrote:

She got in just as North Sea revenues were coming in, whoever was in power had a one-off opportunity not to nationalize but the plan to jack interest rates and back a high-value £ was deliberate to ‘bring people in line with the mass unemployment.
They said it was all due to the unions who it was has to be said acted back then just like the bankers in the decades since, as a self-interest group with massive power who saw themselves as apart from society, however in the 40 odd years since Thatcher stripped most of their power but the issues cited then still exist, namely poor productivity due to low investment compared to competitors.

And has created the employment situation faced by these P and O employees, I know you seem to hate the country you live in but what they did with the same windfall, from the same source, is looked upon with envy here and a missed opportunity.
Apparently, Thatcher in her memoirs was unaware of the huge industrial, technical, logistical and if you recall Piper Alpha, dangerous exercise barely rates a mention, a paragraph. Of course, cannot deny her genius could she?
Without that oil, she would have floundered early on, in 1981 after mass civil unrest she came to being deposed from within as it was.

I don't hate the country I live in, I do hate a few fellow countrymen as they have made this place a living hell. They are playing a majority card and inciting hate about minorities. And as far as economics is concerned, the views that are in the UK are similar here, they are doing mass privatizations even after seeing that in so many cases privatizations actually erode whatever little accountability has been left. On top of it, they are dismantling railway stations and whatnot in the name of one thing or the other. And a lot of people aren't educated in my country so they easily fall into many of the traps laid by our political parties. And of course, accountability is zero. Do you know our PM has not had a press conference for over 7 years? And whatever journalists he takes with him are those who won't ask the PM tough questions and let him get away with any nonsense. It looks like both India and UK destinies have been written by the same hand - Russia

Replying to Kiwirob who always seems to be upset at being in Norway. Hence the oil comparison.

Aha. my bad. While it is a beautiful place and very cold from what I have seen on the web, I am sure he has his reasons

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60881550

Not all plain sailing, (pun intended).

Seems that they are in too much of a rush.

bennett123 wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60881550

Not all plain sailing, (pun intended).

Seems that they are in too much of a rush.

Hang on...
The boss admits he broke the law and would do it again!
How come he's not being prosecuted?!
If I were to speed on the motorway and get stopped by the police and told them I knew I was speeding and I'd do it again, I'm sure they would chuckle and send me on my way again....

Or did the P&O Ferries boss also go to Oxford with de Pfeffel?

UK to pass minimum wage law for ferry crews:
https://gcaptain.com/britain-ferry-oper ... imum-wage/

I noted a ferry was impounded due to inadequate crew training. I'm betting P&O becomes a case study in how to force government scrutiny.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

UK to pass minimum wage law for ferry crews:
https://gcaptain.com/britain-ferry-oper ... imum-wage/

I noted a ferry was impounded due to inadequate crew training. I'm betting P&O becomes a case study in how to force government scrutiny.

Lightsaber

Been a couple impounded. One in NI, another down south. Will probably be more.

lightsaber wrote:

UK to pass minimum wage law for ferry crews:
https://gcaptain.com/britain-ferry-oper ... imum-wage/

I noted a ferry was impounded due to inadequate crew training. I'm betting P&O becomes a case study in how to force government scrutiny.

Lightsaber

The government were well aware of what was to come since Johnson had his tongue up the Sultan of Dubai's backside just prior, bit like last year when the plan for a new football super league came out, Johnson pretended to be shocked and against it however the night before he had met with the CEO of Man U who had to resign when the idea met such a hostile reaction.

They created the employment environment that encouraged it, after all according to four of his Cabinet, (the real nasty and thick ones), 'British workers are the biggest idlers in the world' which of course was all the fault of the EU.
Well guess whose workers were not sacked, the RMT union being a hard left one are culpable since they almost uniquely with unions backed the great stupidity too. Well now the sacked staff cannot as they could before, find work elsewhere in the EU.

If P & O are the important national asset the government said it is, hence the Covid mitigation funding, they know what to do right?
They have after all taken stakes in steel plants that specialize in materials for RN subs and other examples.

That dopey and toxic MP for Dover, Natalie Verythick, who got barracked by the workers since her voting record on employment rights is known, who is forever blaming every problem on powerless refugees, not white ones from Ukraine though, is only the MP since she took her husband's place when he was done for sexual offences.
Charming bunch, aren't they?

And yet another ferry stopped for 'deficiencies'

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

ChrisKen wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

UK to pass minimum wage law for ferry crews:
https://gcaptain.com/britain-ferry-oper ... imum-wage/

I noted a ferry was impounded due to inadequate crew training. I'm betting P&O becomes a case study in how to force government scrutiny.

Lightsaber

Been a couple impounded. One in NI, another down south. Will probably be more.

Apparently reviews are... poor due to delays.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/s ... NewsSearch

What a way to trash corporate culture.
https://www.aol.com/detained-p-o-ferrie ... 57642.html
P&O Ferries has accused the MCA of carrying out inspections with “an unprecedented level of rigour”


And no one is surprised.

Lightsaber

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... dApp_Other

It seems they found 31 failings including:
"ranging from problems with fire safety to lifeboat drills."

Not a ship I'd want to be on in an emergency!