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alberchico
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China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:37 pm

https://carnewschina.com/2022/03/14/ora ... nightmare/

https://carnewschina.com/2022/01/12/ora ... nd-faster/

https://jalopnik.com/that-chinese-elect ... 1846712355

There are basically 2 versions that will go into production, the Ora Punk Cat, and the Ballet Cat. Why did they choose such stupid names I have no idea. Their auto industry has a tendency to go with bizarre names for vehicles, like the infamous Havel "Big Dog" SUV. Naturally, Volkswagen has threatened litigation, but that just means that they won't be able to sell it in any European or North American markets.

Image

Image
 
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T18
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:45 pm

China has a long and proud history of knock offs and straight up IP teft so not shocking at all, worst part is this one don't even look good on its own.
 
LabQuest
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Fri Mar 25, 2022 11:04 pm

I'm sure they've managed to make it even deadlier in a crash, too.
 
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cjg225
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:49 am

T18 wrote:
China has a long and proud history of knock offs and straight up IP teft so not shocking at all, worst part is this one don't even look good on its own.

Yeesh. Yeah. That's an ugly copy of the Beetle.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:57 am

Next thing you know, they will be making Singer sewing Machines with treadles.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:30 am

My theory is that people who exhibit real artistic creativity and transgression aren't valued by polite Chinese society. The one child policy and CCP each play a part. It is hard to be innovative if all you do is follow directions and take exams based on what you were told. The people who end up in charge are people who don't have any ideas. Anyway, my 2c on this half-true stereotype about China. Bold, iconic designs come from rebellious, disobedient people who do not simply follow commands. If you insist on thinking for yourself in China, you could wind up dead.
 
pune
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:38 am

alberchico wrote:
https://carnewschina.com/2022/03/14/ora-punk-cat-chinese-ev-is-a-volkswagens-nightmare/

https://carnewschina.com/2022/01/12/ora ... nd-faster/

https://jalopnik.com/that-chinese-elect ... 1846712355

There are basically 2 versions that will go into production, the Ora Punk Cat, and the Ballet Cat. Why did they choose such stupid names I have no idea. Their auto industry has a tendency to go with bizarre names for vehicles, like the infamous Havel "Big Dog" SUV. Naturally, Volkswagen has threatened litigation, but that just means that they won't be able to sell it in any European or North American markets.

Image

Image


I was under the impression that the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV was a knock off the Volkswagan beetle

https://car.inotgo.com/2021/10/20211006054351451y.html

And guess what, GM is part of it -

https://www.benzinga.com/news/21/12/243 ... d-22-surge

The Wuling has been selling as hotcakes in China. As far as VW threatening legislation is concerned, it probably is more about protecting their home market. They still don't have much in way of EV's. Their own CEO Herbert Dece has said that their competition is with Tesla and the Chinese .
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:45 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Next thing you know, they will be making Singer sewing Machines with treadles.


With flay-rods that go askew?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:48 pm

LabQuest wrote:
I'm sure they've managed to make it even deadlier in a crash, too.


Those days are long over.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:51 pm

pune wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://carnewschina.com/2022/03/14/ora-punk-cat-chinese-ev-is-a-volkswagens-nightmare/

https://carnewschina.com/2022/01/12/ora ... nd-faster/

https://jalopnik.com/that-chinese-elect ... 1846712355

There are basically 2 versions that will go into production, the Ora Punk Cat, and the Ballet Cat. Why did they choose such stupid names I have no idea. Their auto industry has a tendency to go with bizarre names for vehicles, like the infamous Havel "Big Dog" SUV. Naturally, Volkswagen has threatened litigation, but that just means that they won't be able to sell it in any European or North American markets.

Image

Image


I was under the impression that the Wuling Hongguang Mini EV was a knock off the Volkswagan beetle

https://car.inotgo.com/2021/10/20211006054351451y.html

And guess what, GM is part of it -

https://www.benzinga.com/news/21/12/243 ... d-22-surge

The Wuling has been selling as hotcakes in China. As far as VW threatening legislation is concerned, it probably is more about protecting their home market. They still don't have much in way of EV's. Their own CEO Herbert Dece has said that their competition is with Tesla and the Chinese .


What do you mean by VW not having much in way of EV’s? Compared to other European brands (and Ford and GM) they are well ahead of everyone else.
 
B777LRF
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:24 pm

Our communist friends are great at operating a copying machine, and have little-by-little learned how to slap the pieces together in an acceptable way, but the final product will nearly always be a little off. In this case, as in many others, rather a large bit of “little off”.

They’ve copied BMWs, Audi’s, Rolls Royce’s and so far and so forth. That they only get to the Käfer now is frankly the only surprising thing about it.

I’ve seen entire Apple, Rolex and Louis Vuitton shops in China which were top to bottom fake. Looked the business, but the prices were just a bit off. By 75% or thereabouts. Which is still a gigantic rip-off, mind.

Funny thing is they can actually build cars which look original, and are of perfectly acceptable standard on quality, comfort, usability and technology. The Aiways U5 is a perfectly good example. Looks like every other SUV (or crossover, or yuppie tractor, or whatever it is the hottest selling vehicles are called), but isn’t a straight copy of any (insofar as one ignores the argument they’re all copies of each other). Powered by leecy, with decent range. A neighbour recently bought one, and I’ve had a poke around it. Looks perfectly fine, like a fine washing machine from Miele or something. Utterly soulless, but such is the nature of SUV lectrickery.
 
B777LRF
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 1:42 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
What do you mean by VW not having much in way of EV’s? Compared to other European brands (and Ford and GM) they are well ahead of everyone else.


Mercedes is the clear leader: EQA, EQB, EQC, EQE, EQS and EQV.

VW boasts UP, ID3, ID4 and ID5. That’s one more than Audi, and the same as BMW (iX, i3, i4 and iX3). US brands are solidly asleep at the wheel, the Japanese are hanging on to hybrids, whilst the Koreans are looking to be going serious on leecy and have two of the most interesting offerings currently; the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6. Our Italian friends just want to produce power, so they’re attaching leecy motors to turbo-charged V6s, V8s and even nat-asp'd V12s, and you’ve gotta love that.
 
pune
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:26 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
What do you mean by VW not having much in way of EV’s? Compared to other European brands (and Ford and GM) they are well ahead of everyone else.


Mercedes is the clear leader: EQA, EQB, EQC, EQE, EQS and EQV.

VW boasts UP, ID3, ID4 and ID5. That’s one more than Audi, and the same as BMW (iX, i3, i4 and iX3). US brands are solidly asleep at the wheel, the Japanese are hanging on to hybrids, whilst the Koreans are looking to be going serious on leecy and have two of the most interesting offerings currently; the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6. Our Italian friends just want to produce power, so they’re attaching leecy motors to turbo-charged V6s, V8s and even nat-asp'd V12s, and you’ve gotta love that.


Can you explain what are 'leecy motors', this is a term I don't know about. I do know that the Chinese are doing LFP batteries and many will go to Europe, Australia, and even the U.S. There are at least dozen-odd companies starting with BYD who are vertical and horizontal integrators. And whatever is being said about China, the same things were said about the Japanese in the 80s and we saw how that turned out.

VW have their own internal power politics happening. Just look at what happened with Herbert Diess. And he is the only one who is fully behind the EV transition, the rest want no change. Even though the German parliament has just passed the law about EVs being the norm after 2035.
 
B777LRF
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:33 pm

Leecy = leccy. As in electrical.
 
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T18
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:07 pm

B777LRF wrote:

VW boasts UP, ID3, ID4 and ID5. That’s one more than Audi, and the same as BMW (iX, i3, i4 and iX3).


Point I should raise, VW and Audi are all under the same Group, and I believe the VW and Audi Evs share a platform.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:11 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
What do you mean by VW not having much in way of EV’s? Compared to other European brands (and Ford and GM) they are well ahead of everyone else.


Mercedes is the clear leader: EQA, EQB, EQC, EQE, EQS and EQV.

VW boasts UP, ID3, ID4 and ID5. That’s one more than Audi, and the same as BMW (iX, i3, i4 and iX3). US brands are solidly asleep at the wheel, the Japanese are hanging on to hybrids, whilst the Koreans are looking to be going serious on leecy and have two of the most interesting offerings currently; the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6. Our Italian friends just want to produce power, so they’re attaching leecy motors to turbo-charged V6s, V8s and even nat-asp'd V12s, and you’ve gotta love that.


ID3,4,5,6 and Buzz are built on a dedicated BEV chassis, only the EQE and EQS from Mercedes use BEV only chassis. The ID chassis is used by Audi, Seat, Cupra, Skoda and Ford will also use it. Audi and Porsche have the J1 chassis, Audi also has the E-Tron, next year they will introduce the new A6 E-Tron which will use a new dedicated BEV chassis. This chassis the PPE will be used by Porsche and Bentley.
 
pune
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:12 pm

In fact, if one wants to go even further back then Thomas Edison and Henry Ford had made plans to make an electric car but twice mysteriously his lab got burnt down. And that was the electric car premature death in the 1920s otherwise the history of transportation would have been something else altogether So many people lost to cancer and other pollution diseases would have survived :(

The documentary I shared is worth seeing IMHO.
 
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T18
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:26 pm

Okay I misunderstood the point you were making. I thought you were trying to say no one had put a mass market EV out before Tesla. I'm not sure that the EV tech of the early 20th century had any chance to do what ICE has done however, the tech was just not there for batteries.
 
pune
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:44 pm

Now lastly, as far as their 'marketing' is concerned. GM actually wants to follow the Tesla way. The GM dealers as well as some of the other legacy auto manufacturers were trying to sell machines 10-20k USD above the MSRP while with Tesla, there is nothing like that. GM wants to do it that way, Their idea is to reduce number of GM dealers slowly and then do direct sales. The dealers could act as after-sales personnel, servicing etc. or get more into accessories or whatnot.
 
pune
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sat Mar 26, 2022 10:05 pm

T18 wrote:
Okay I misunderstood the point you were making. I thought you were trying to say no one had put a mass-market EV out before Tesla. I'm not sure that the EV tech of the early 20th century had any chance to do what ICE has done however, the tech was just not there for batteries.


The tech for batteries has to be made. Even ICE was similar, it was actually far less efficient 100 years ago than today. but still, we have health issues apart from climate warming.. In fact, just read this today -

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... scientists?

Battery chemistry will only improve when you make investments, and you will not make investments unless you are selling and being profitable in that or see a huge market in that. Tesla singlehandedly created that mass market. And Tesla also has been open to collaborations and whatnot so most of his IP is free except in a few areas, others have not reciprocated the same but that's ok.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-pate ... belong-you
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:49 am

cjg225 wrote:
T18 wrote:
China has a long and proud history of knock offs and straight up IP teft so not shocking at all, worst part is this one don't even look good on its own.

Yeesh. Yeah. That's an ugly copy of the Beetle.

The VW is a classic. This is the Walmart version.
 
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Aesma
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:29 am

Many of their cars are called something cat.

Looking at the bumper alone they don't plan on selling that one in Europe at least
 
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Dutchy
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:28 am

It is a nice idea, captures much more of the essence of the original Beetle than the version of the VW of the 1990's. Although the design is a bit off and they shouldnot have 4 doors on it, two doors are enough for the design.

And yes, the Chinese should be creating its own classics, not copying others ;-)
 
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Dutchy
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:29 am

Aesma wrote:
Many of their cars are called something cat.

Looking at the bumper alone they don't plan on selling that one in Europe at least


Would be interesting if they did, although VW might (certainly) object.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: China blatantly copies the iconic Volkswagen Beetle

Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:24 am

TWA772LR wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
T18 wrote:
China has a long and proud history of knock offs and straight up IP teft so not shocking at all, worst part is this one don't even look good on its own.

Yeesh. Yeah. That's an ugly copy of the Beetle.

The VW is a classic. This is the Walmart version.



Wish Beetle...

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