Kent350787 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Hong Kong government said that, as recently many coronavirus cases are found among inbound travellers on the PCR test taken by them on 12th day of arrival, inbound travellers will be required to take an additional PCR test on the 9th day of arrival, in order to.reduce the risk of the virus being spreaded into community. Also, additional fine and landing ban have been imposed against airlines if any of their passengers are discovered as not having proper pre departure test documents

Did HK have later PCR testing before? Here in Australia during quarantine for returned travellers, most states had arrival, day 5 and day 10 PCR.

Is the plan to kill the HK economy via lockdowns? NSW is a similar population to HK (although far less dense)and although case numbers remain quite high, hospitalisations and deaths are little different to HK in lockdown. Perhaps the HK population skews older than here?

IIRC the big difference is that the anti-vax population in HK is among the older population. They are refusing the vaccine and are at the highest risk.

In Australia I assume its in line with other western nations is that the elderly got the vaccines first and the boosters and nearly a 100% rate. The anti-vax people are those whom oppose it for political reasons and the young and healthy who aren't likely to need hospitalization anyways.

Kent350787 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Hong Kong government said that, as recently many coronavirus cases are found among inbound travellers on the PCR test taken by them on 12th day of arrival, inbound travellers will be required to take an additional PCR test on the 9th day of arrival, in order to.reduce the risk of the virus being spreaded into community. Also, additional fine and landing ban have been imposed against airlines if any of their passengers are discovered as not having proper pre departure test documents

Did HK have later PCR testing before? Here in Australia during quarantine for returned travellers, most states had arrival, day 5 and day 10 PCR.

Is the plan to kill the HK economy via lockdowns? NSW is a similar population to HK (although far less dense)and although case numbers remain quite high, hospitalisations and deaths are little different to HK in lockdown. Perhaps the HK population skews older than here?

It was 5th day and 12th day, and now it's updated to 5th, 9th, and 12th day.

They also announced there are no room to relax the current quarantine measure because around 10-20% of all cases in the city now are found from inbound travellers (in quarantine or otherwise)

StarAC17 wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Hong Kong government said that, as recently many coronavirus cases are found among inbound travellers on the PCR test taken by them on 12th day of arrival, inbound travellers will be required to take an additional PCR test on the 9th day of arrival, in order to.reduce the risk of the virus being spreaded into community. Also, additional fine and landing ban have been imposed against airlines if any of their passengers are discovered as not having proper pre departure test documents

Did HK have later PCR testing before? Here in Australia during quarantine for returned travellers, most states had arrival, day 5 and day 10 PCR.

Is the plan to kill the HK economy via lockdowns? NSW is a similar population to HK (although far less dense)and although case numbers remain quite high, hospitalisations and deaths are little different to HK in lockdown. Perhaps the HK population skews older than here?

IIRC the big difference is that the anti-vax population in HK is among the older population. They are refusing the vaccine and are at the highest risk.

In Australia I assume its in line with other western nations is that the elderly got the vaccines first and the boosters and nearly a 100% rate. The anti-vax people are those whom oppose it for political reasons and the young and healthy who aren't likely to need hospitalization anyways.

A problem is that, for political reason they have to make the Chinese vaccines no less appealing than the Western vaccines, and as the data is out there showing that SinoVac are less efficient against Omicron, they tried to push the narrative that it is milder and thus cause less side effects, so a number of people who are mainly elderly followed such promotion, opting for the SinoVac vaccines as their way to navigate through government's vaccine pass, hope that by picking the less effective vaccine they will have lower chance of having side effects.

https://www.thatsmags.com/shanghai/post ... -that-mean

As Shanghai try to return to normal, they are now building tens of thousand PCR sample collection site, so that they will be within 15 minutes of walk from anywhere in the city, to allow citizens to take PCR tests any time so that they can produce PCR test result within 72 hours to go through their nornal life. The PCR tests will be free in the first month.

c933103 wrote:

A problem is that, for political reason they have to make the Chinese vaccines no less appealing than the Western vaccines, and as the data is out there showing that SinoVac are less efficient against Omicron, they tried to push the narrative that it is milder and thus cause less side effects, so a number of people who are mainly elderly followed such promotion, opting for the SinoVac vaccines as their way to navigate through government's vaccine pass, hope that by picking the less effective vaccine they will have lower chance of having side effects.

That's interesting. So the concern amongst the elderly was around vaccine side effects, rather than the risk of death from Covid? Yes, in Australia, two doses is in the mid-high 90% for older people, and boosters are almost as high. This group is still overrepresented in hospitalisations and deaths

I must say, coming from a country which worked hard to maintain Covid-zero only to lose that battle to Omicron, drastic measures to maintain Covid-zero seem wrong-headed. In NSW (pop. 8.1m), our Covid hospitalisations are slowly declining in recent weeks (1143 in hospital with Covid yesterday, and 31 in ICU). At the same time, influenza notifactions are now between 6,000 and 7,000 cases per week.

Kent350787 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

A problem is that, for political reason they have to make the Chinese vaccines no less appealing than the Western vaccines, and as the data is out there showing that SinoVac are less efficient against Omicron, they tried to push the narrative that it is milder and thus cause less side effects, so a number of people who are mainly elderly followed such promotion, opting for the SinoVac vaccines as their way to navigate through government's vaccine pass, hope that by picking the less effective vaccine they will have lower chance of having side effects.

That's interesting. So the concern amongst the elderly was around vaccine side effects, rather than the risk of death from Covid? Yes, in Australia, two doses is in the mid-high 90% for older people, and boosters are almost as high. This group is still overrepresented in hospitalisations and deaths

I must say, coming from a country which worked hard to maintain Covid-zero only to lose that battle to Omicron, drastic measures to maintain Covid-zero seem wrong-headed. In NSW (pop. 8.1m), our Covid hospitalisations are slowly declining in recent weeks (1143 in hospital with Covid yesterday, and 31 in ICU). At the same time, influenza notifactions are now between 6,000 and 7,000 cases per week.

This is political. The Hong Kong government claim that the priority number 1 wosh among citizens in Hong Kong is to resume cross border exchange with Mainland China, and only possible condition to reopen the border with Mainland China is COVID-Zero due to China's COVID-Zero policy, so they are still trting to push all these.
And then in the previous outbreak, the Chinese government at Beijing also did a lot of publicity trying to express support to Hong Kong fighting against Omicron despite half of the population ultimately infected and the medical resource + supply chain break down, and so the Hong Kong government teach citizens that all must be thankful to the heartful support to Hong Kong ny the Chinese government and that we cannot let it go to waste, and as a result they are now doing more contact tracing, randomly locking dowm one building a day to find out there are maybe one or two infected people living in the building, issuing test mandate to entire district with hundreds of thousand people based on waste water sample, and so on, although some would comment this os the Hong Kong government's way of money laundering as all these testing and lockdown measure are done by specifically recruited people and company who cost far above regular labor cost in the city.

https://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/info/1175/95119.htm

University in China launched an automatic coronavirus PCR test machine in campus, taking PCR tests against the air periodically.

https://www.cna.com.tw/news/ahel/202206030140.aspx
Taiwan: For the time being, border control relaxation will not include leisure travel

https://www.upmedia.mg/news_info.php?Ty ... lNo=146223

Taiwan: UK data indicate long COVID rate among Omicron patients are in single digit percent points, Japanese data indicate a long COVID rate of 5.6% for Omicron infected as opposed to 55.6% for Delta infected

A little over 2 years since the pandemic started and I finally got COVID. Luckily I got it right after coming home from vacation in Chicago.

Early winter here in NZ.
The border is near full open again with the remaining restrictions on visitors from non visa waiver countries, and a resumption of cruise ship visits due to in the next 3 months. There would be nearly nill cruise ship visits anyway in winter here.
The days of predeparture testing are also numbered.
Imported cases are though running at about 80 per day. All arrivals are issued with a number of RAT tests.
This part of the border monitoring strategy to detect new varients. Waste water samples are also genetically sequenced to determine the location of newly reported varients.

Masks are required in most commercial settings, except entertainment venues, and on public transport.

There is advice from some epidemiologists to reinstate masks in schools, due to the prevalence of transmission in schools and the impending winter illness season. Against this, is that this would be counterproductive in getting those school aged children who have become lost from the school system during lockdowns, reengaged.

The epidemic seems to have stabilised at about 7000 reported daily cases, 400 daily hospitalisations, 8 in ICU and 11-15 deaths a day, within 28days of a covid positive test, or covid being listed as a contributing cause on the death certificate. So deaths are counted both with, and where covid contributed.
All the Omicron variants are present in community transmission now but the vast bulk are Omicron 2.

These levels seem remarkably similar to those in Australia and infact with most of the world now.
What is evident here, is continuing prudence rather then paranoia.

What is is still an unknown, is whether the degradation caused to our organs by covid is cummulitve with repeated infections.
We certainly know catching covid is bad for you, we just don't know at an individual level, how bad.
But it also very clear that gathering up comorbidities is hugely accelerated by age.

Overall to date, our strategies have meant we have got off remarkably lightly.
Currently the war in Ukraine elevating energy prices, fertiliser prices, and grain based food prices, is probably affecting us much as residual covid effects.

Realtors Had Billions In PPP Loans Forgiven As Housing Market Boomed

Many realtors took out PPP loans from the federal government and had them forgiven while the real estate industry boomed during the pandemic. NBC News’ Guad Venegas has the exclusive report.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXaxr6VyzUk

Barron's: Novavax Covid-19 Vaccine Linked to Heart Inflammation, FDA Says.

https://www.marketwatch.com/articles/no ... 1654268921

Toenga wrote:

There is advice from some epidemiologists to reinstate masks in schools, due to the prevalence of transmission in schools and the impending winter illness season. Against this, is that this would be counterproductive in getting those school aged children who have become lost from the school system during lockdowns, reengaged.

Can we not mandate masking in kids going forward please. The WHO never recommended it at all even through the worst of the pandemic. From day one they are the lowest risk for Covid and any school age child in eligible for vaccination.

On a more development not kids need to see each other's faces to learn body language an facial cues. Masks have made things difficult for me and I'm 38, I have this weird quirk that I kind of memorize people teeth and that is a way I can remember a person I haven't seen in a long time and not being able to see them actually effects my communication.

Toenga wrote:

These levels seem remarkably similar to those in Australia and infact with most of the world now.
What is evident here, is continuing prudence rather then paranoia.

What is is still an unknown, is whether the degradation caused to our organs by covid is cummulitve with repeated infections.
We certainly know catching covid is bad for you, we just don't know at an individual level, how bad.
But it also very clear that gathering up comorbidities is hugely accelerated by age.

Overall to date, our strategies have meant we have got off remarkably lightly.
Currently the war in Ukraine elevating energy prices, fertiliser prices, and grain based food prices, is probably affecting us much as residual covid effects.

What we are seeing is Covid becoming an endemic seasonal illness. Its early summer up in Canada and like the summers of 2020 and 2021 the virus will not be an issue until early September when school starts again and from what you are saying in NZ its probably just going to blend in with cold and flu season.

In Canada we tend to have 3 waves that peak late September/Early October, one in December/January and the final one in March/April. This seems remarkably consistent year over year.

I will commend NZ, I thought a year ago that you would still have your borders closed and trying to isolate from Covid but you did what you needed to do. You kept the virus at bay until you were able to get enough vaccinations to not feel the true hurt and have now largely reopened. Sure you had geography as an advantage but it appears to be working out.

RE: The Realtors and the PPP

The "poor' are often chided for "milking" the welfare system.
But when others "milk Govt. programs" the outrage is "different."
Many feel sick... that they were not smart or savvy enough to have gotten their share of the PPP Pie!!!

But, in the case of independent realtors... they are, I'd imagine, a well connected group. And I'm sure the word spread fast in their "chat rooms" on what to do... Realtors deal with paperwork and laws and regulations as a matter of course. So I imagine it was easy-peasy for them to file for the PPP.

https://www.hk01.com/%E7%A4%BE%E6%9C%83 ... 3%E7%BD%A9

Expert in Hong Kong say mask wearing help lower the rate of various respiratory disease, including those with pathogen that need antibiotic usage, hence reduce the spread of antibiotic resistance, and with this they also recommend keep wearing the mask for every winter into the future to prevent coronaviruis and flu infection during flu seasons

c933103 wrote:

https://www.hk01.com/%E7%A4%BE%E6%9C%83%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E/777781/%E8%A2%81%E5%9C%8B%E5%8B%87%E7%A0%94%E7%A9%B6-%E9%98%B2%E6%96%B0%E5%86%A0%E5%85%BC%E6%B8%9B%E6%8A%97%E8%97%A5%E6%83%A1%E8%8F%8C-%E7%96%AB%E6%83%85%E8%8B%A5%E5%BB%B6%E8%87%B3%E5%86%AC%E5%AD%A3-%E5%85%A8%E6%B0%91%E7%BA%8C%E6%88%B4%E5%8F%A3%E7%BD%A9

Expert in Hong Kong say mask wearing help lower the rate of various respiratory disease, including those with pathogen that need antibiotic usage, hence reduce the spread of antibiotic resistance, and with this they also recommend keep wearing the mask for every winter into the future to prevent coronaviruis and flu infection during flu seasons

I think for sensible people everywhere, this is a no-brainer. The spread of influenza in Australia at the moment is showing that vaccination isn't enough for diseases that aren't wholy vaccine preventable. In NSW, the weekly Covid-19 surveillance report that has been running for over 2 years is now Covid-19 and Influenza.

Masks are only mandated on public transport now, and usage is reportedly low on some lines. Some aged care and health facilities also have mask requirements.

https://china.hket.com/article/3258973/ ... 2%E5%8F%8B

Chinese government immigration department said last month that, because the world is still in pandemic, individual should not travel overseas for leisure or visit friends or families, as this would increase risk of infection

What are people seeing with Omicron?

There definitely seems to be a correlation with blood type. Everyone I know, including myself, with A+ blood has caught Omicron. The severity seems worse too. (Not horrible, but a day longer.

I know many vaccinated who have had Omicron (dozens) and most very minor. One with 7 days of "brain fog," but trivial otherwise. No longhaul symptoms.

I personally do not know many unvaccinated. But I know 3 who had it, all with longer duration and longhaul symptoms.

lightsaber wrote:

What are people seeing with Omicron?

There definitely seems to be a correlation with blood type. Everyone I know, including myself, with A+ blood has caught Omicron. The severity seems worse too. (Not horrible, but a day longer.

I know many vaccinated who have had Omicron (dozens) and most very minor. One with 7 days of "brain fog," but trivial otherwise. No longhaul symptoms.

I personally do not know many unvaccinated. But I know 3 who had it, all with longer duration and longhaul symptoms.

My wife, eldest son and I are three shots, 14yo son two. My wife had it in late Jan, 14yo mid-March and me early May. Eldest still hasn't returned a positive Covid test.

I'm B- blood, and suffered a few days of real tiredness (two hour afternoon nap and full night's sleep), but a little tiredeness and brain fog, with complete lack of stamina for at least another week. 14yo overall similar. My wife (O) was hit hardest, not helped by continuing to work long hours whilst in isolation - her recovery didn't start until she stopped working, and her brian fog dragged on for at least a couple of months.

We have been hot as well by bad colds/possible influenza. I'm the only one who's had a flu shot to date - they are on offer for free in June here in Austrlia.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e-xi-visit

As part of coronavirus prevention measure, a primary school in Hong Kong have asked schoolkids to undergo a week of quarantine in hotel, in order for them to participate in a "very honorable mission" of welcoming and farewell some people at Hong Kong airport, as Hong Kong will have its 25th anniversary of handover to China ceremony on July 1.

Hong Kong TV news:
- Starting from today, Minister of Health will take over the daily reporting press conference from Center of Health Protection, as the development of the pandemic is "concerning" in recent days with 700-800 cases each days (aka 0.01% population of the city)
- People enter bars, disco, etc., will need to perform antigen tests before entering, in addition to the existing 3-dose vaccination requirement
- Infected people will only be allowed to quarantine at home if they have a separated bedroom and a separated toilet in their home, otherwise they will be sent to government quarantine facilities
- Not planning to suspend all the classes for the time being

https://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/202206 ... 2_001.html

Hong Kong government is now making a law, which state that if one cannot attend work due to being infected with coronavirus, or due to being quarantined under pandemic prevention law, they can apply for a paid sick leave, and employers will no longer be able to fire such employee.

Workers representative are disappointed that the law do not cover situation in the past when millions were infected, and workers were forced to take annual leave or even unpaid leave during their period of being infected.
Business representative are disappointed that the law require employer to bear cost of circumstances not directly associated with sickness, increasing the operation cost.

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/fb671 ... 0c6ccb439a
As swimming class return to Japanese school after multiple years of suspension, some students find it questionable that girls and boys are swimming together in the same pool.

Due to rising coronavirus cases, my work's "take your child to work day" was cancelled.

c933103 wrote:

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/fb67116418dd74b64e16175c0bf96e0c6ccb439a
As swimming class return to Japanese school after multiple years of suspension, some students find it questionable that girls and boys are swimming together in the same pool.

Coronavirus has, unfortunately, permanently changed male/female interaction. It wasn't so healthy before-covid19 anyway. Years of social isolation means years of less gender mixing.

There have been a drop in marriages due to coronavirus. Now, I found a link on China, but I would bet this is more universal:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/economic-i ... sees-firms

Lightsaber

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

That is exactly my situation in that I was all clear up till a few weeks ago. Strangely I never had a fever or cough but absolutely terrible aches and congestion. It then also gifted me a sinus infection, which is fortunately clearing up. My doctor mentioned him seeing lots like us where it finally caught up after over 2 years.

Glad to hear you’re recovering!

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

Thing is, it still sounds like the vaccines are helping with the serious issues (hospitalizations and deaths).

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

Thing is, it still sounds like the vaccines are helping with the serious issues (hospitalizations and deaths).

No doubt. While it’s hard to tell, it sure seems like I would have been a lot sicker had I not been triple vexed

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

Thing is, it still sounds like the vaccines are helping with the serious issues (hospitalizations and deaths).

I do hope so, but with all the Phlegm and crap from my lungs, I have to imagine there is going to be quite a few that are going to be worse off with this one.

SL1200MK2 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

That is exactly my situation in that I was all clear up till a few weeks ago. Strangely I never had a fever or cough but absolutely terrible aches and congestion. It then also gifted me a sinus infection, which is fortunately clearing up. My doctor mentioned him seeing lots like us where it finally caught up after over 2 years.

Glad to hear you’re recovering!

Thanks,
I hope I don't have to go through this thing again anytime soon.

casinterest wrote:

SL1200MK2 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

That is exactly my situation in that I was all clear up till a few weeks ago. Strangely I never had a fever or cough but absolutely terrible aches and congestion. It then also gifted me a sinus infection, which is fortunately clearing up. My doctor mentioned him seeing lots like us where it finally caught up after over 2 years.

Glad to hear you’re recovering!

Thanks,
I hope I don't have to go through this thing again anytime soon.

Same here. I remember in January everyone telling me it was more like a cold… This was far far worse than any cold. I found it somewhat disturbing.

Although about 80-90% of people in our area don't wear masks indoors, we still wear N95s in indoor public places. We have not yet had COVID, and we're all vaxed and boosted.

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

The coughing is the worst. I speculate I caught BA2.12.1. I needed *strong* cough medicine to function or sleep. I'm at my daughter's play and all of us are wearing KN95s.

Get well soon. The cough/Phlegm persisted for myself a bit, I hope not so for you.

That said, everyone I know unvaccinated (from work, my social circle is 100% vaccinated) is getting far more longhaul symptoms.

Lightsaber

res coughs and from my limited experience: codeine is the most effective, but still not all that good. I persuaded my doc a several years ago for an Rx of 30/300s (codeine/Tylenol generic). Usually a quarter of a pill stops cough, sometimes it needs 15mg. Most of the cough syrups do not have enough codeine to stop a cough at Rx'ed doses.

lightsaber wrote:

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

The coughing is the worst. I speculate I caught BA2.12.1. I needed *strong* cough medicine to function or sleep. I'm at my daughter's play and all of us are wearing KN95s.

Get well soon. The cough/Phlegm persisted for myself a bit, I hope not so for you.

That said, everyone I know unvaccinated (from work, my social circle is 100% vaccinated) is getting far more longhaul symptoms.

Lightsaber

With the number of KN95 that would easiky lost electrostatics, are they even better than regular surgical masks?

casinterest wrote:

So after having avoided it for 2 years and 3 months. I finally caught COVID-19 a few weeks ago. I imagine it was Omicron 4 or 5. Started with a sore throat, then Chills, Fever, aches. And finally I succumbed for a 6 day bought with the worst of it before finally testing clear. I still am coughing up Phlegm. Not a pleasant experience.

Had some good friends and family to help me through it. Especially since I was out of town. .

I had 3 shots in the past 17 months, but this one got right on by that protection. I have to wonder if we are going to see a lot more infections this year as the Omicron 4 and 5 are showing signs of not being picked up by the previous vaccinations.

Glad to hear you’re doing better. Both my boyfriend and I have somehow managed to avoid it thus far, both triple-vaxxed…though I joke not for lack of trying, we’re both of the “vaxxed and relaxed” mindset and haven’t done much to curtail our travel and social engagements. I know I’ll probably get it at some point however, so here’s to hoping it’ll be a relatively mild bout!

How are the variant shots coming along?
It seems we're about due for one now as the OG vax appears to have reached its limits.

The theory was that variant boosters would be quick to modify and quick to approve as they would bypass most of the testing required for the initial one.
It's been over a year and a half since the first generation came out.

The problem is that they can modify quick, but some clinical testing is required. Then manufacturing of tens of millions of doses is required. Then that huge supply chain needs to be updated with inventory. Meanwhile, new variants are popping up all the time. So the variant update is likely out of date before it hits the market. And the original vaccine still is highly protective against serious illness and death. So is it worth a variant update if the original vaccine still works? What if a truly nasty variant appears that evades all protections and meanwhile we're gearing up for a minor variant update?

Chemist wrote:

Although about 80-90% of people in our area don't wear masks indoors, we still wear N95s in indoor public places. We have not yet had COVID, and we're all vaxed and boosted.

I have only worn a mask when required indoors, travelled, partied, been dating, and hooking up, since day 1 of the pandemic. And I have also not caught covid. :b

Chemist wrote:

Although about 80-90% of people in our area don't wear masks indoors, we still wear N95s in indoor public places. We have not yet had COVID, and we're all vaxed and boosted.

You haven't had a confirmed case of Covid. You very well could have had a asymptomatic infection.

Chemist wrote:

The problem is that they can modify quick, but some clinical testing is required. Then manufacturing of tens of millions of doses is required. Then that huge supply chain needs to be updated with inventory. Meanwhile, new variants are popping up all the time. So the variant update is likely out of date before it hits the market. And the original vaccine still is highly protective against serious illness and death. So is it worth a variant update if the original vaccine still works? What if a truly nasty variant appears that evades all protections and meanwhile we're gearing up for a minor variant update?

I am not getting another Covid vaccine unless it targeting something close to what is circulating or if a mandate returns. However vaccine mandates are useless as the vaccines don't curb transmission. This is not a virus that can be stopped by vaccination and it's an endemic infection or quickly heading in that direction.

Vaccination can help with for those most at risk to an extent but I am fairly low risk and have had 3 shots and they have made me feel progressively worse each time I have got the shot. Make this like a flu shot and then I will get it especially if getting consists of be going into a pharmacy or a doctors office.

To add to that the social and political aspect of this pandemic is over. This means that the public in general has moved on and is prepared to live with the virus (perhaps not China), this doesn't mean the virus isn't still within its pandemic phase but IIRC with the Spanish flu the same happened in or around 1920, the public moved on and the virus was endemic not soon afterwards.

If countries/municipalities try and impose restrictions in the fall I predict there will be significant resistance from the general public.

To add to your last point about a nasty variant coming that evades all protection. That would be a new virus. Why the vaccines do still provide enough protection to stop infection and death is because the initial vaccination course does not stop infection it allows for your immune system to react faster to Covid and its no longer a novel infection as much of the virus is the same as the initial strain.

If these cases are all mostly mild and not overrunning the hospitals then nature is providing our booster shot and this is what happens with the cold and flu.

StarAC17 wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Although about 80-90% of people in our area don't wear masks indoors, we still wear N95s in indoor public places. We have not yet had COVID, and we're all vaxed and boosted.

You haven't had a confirmed case of Covid. You very well could have had a asymptomatic infection.

Chemist wrote:

The problem is that they can modify quick, but some clinical testing is required. Then manufacturing of tens of millions of doses is required. Then that huge supply chain needs to be updated with inventory. Meanwhile, new variants are popping up all the time. So the variant update is likely out of date before it hits the market. And the original vaccine still is highly protective against serious illness and death. So is it worth a variant update if the original vaccine still works? What if a truly nasty variant appears that evades all protections and meanwhile we're gearing up for a minor variant update?

I am not getting another Covid vaccine unless it targeting something close to what is circulating or if a mandate returns. However vaccine mandates are useless as the vaccines don't curb transmission. This is not a virus that can be stopped by vaccination and it's an endemic infection or quickly heading in that direction.

Vaccination can help with for those most at risk to an extent but I am fairly low risk and have had 3 shots and they have made me feel progressively worse each time I have got the shot. Make this like a flu shot and then I will get it especially if getting consists of be going into a pharmacy or a doctors office.

To add to that the social and political aspect of this pandemic is over. This means that the public in general has moved on and is prepared to live with the virus (perhaps not China), this doesn't mean the virus isn't still within its pandemic phase but IIRC with the Spanish flu the same happened in or around 1920, the public moved on and the virus was endemic not soon afterwards.

If countries/municipalities try and impose restrictions in the fall I predict there will be significant resistance from the general public.

To add to your last point about a nasty variant coming that evades all protection. That would be a new virus. Why the vaccines do still provide enough protection to stop infection and death is because the initial vaccination course does not stop infection it allows for your immune system to react faster to Covid and its no longer a novel infection as much of the virus is the same as the initial strain.

If these cases are all mostly mild and not overrunning the hospitals then nature is providing our booster shot and this is what happens with the cold and flu.

It's always possible that we've had asymptomatic infections, but since we've been in contact with almost nobody, and when near anybody we've had N95s on, it's doubtful.

The vaccines do reduce the risk and spread of the disease as the viral load is lower and the shedding is lower when you are vaccinated. You can Google for that info; there are many articles out there such as:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... udies-show

It's not a binary situation where the vax either does or does not allow transmission. There are differences that are significant. The value of vaccines is also to reduce overload on the hospital system, something that a fairly high case rate in the USA, yet relatively low hospitalization rate, is accomplishing. It's currently way better than when the population was naive (unvaxxed and had not had the virus).

There could be a variant that would evade the vaccine's protection against serious illness. Since the vaccine targets the spike protein, the same virus could have a larger alteration in the spike protein and that could be the result. Perhaps not very likely (thankfully).

As far as the flu vaccine, the decision on what flu strains will be targeted are made each year in Jan/Feb and then the vaccine is out by fall. For example, the late 2021 flu vaccine didn't guess very well and was not particularly effective against the actual strains that were present during this previous winter. COVID is going to have the same issues, plus we have a lot less experience with Covid and its vaccines than we do with influenza.

I agree that the time for vaccine mandates has ended, other than as belts and braces for people working with high risk groups such as the elderly. However, the sensible decision is to stay up-to-date with vaccination. In Australia, 4th dose is now recommended for people over 30yo, although I still have four weeks until I'm the recommended 3 months post infection.

Here in Australia we still have mask mandates for on public transport and mask recommendations for indoors, especially in healthcare settings. Hospitalisations are increasing as we move through winter, but not dramatically at this stage. The number of deaths each day appears to have plateaued, Those deaths are also overwhelmingly amongst the elderly.

Interestingly our influenza outbreak appears to have peaked, although the Covid peak is predicted for later this month or perhaps earlier the following.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thai-stats ... -variants/
Thailand claim BA.4 and BA.5 are likely more serious than previous subvariants, saying that they occupy 77% of all severe cases despite occupying 72% non severe.

But the sample size is 570 cases in total, and a total of 13 severe cases.

c933103 wrote:

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thai-stats-indicate-ba-4-ba-5-likely-more-serious-than-other-covid-sub-variants/
Thailand claim BA.4 and BA.5 are likely more serious than previous subvariants, saying that they occupy 77% of all severe cases despite occupying 72% non severe.

But the sample size is 570 cases in total, and a total of 13 severe cases.

In NSW, Australia, BA.5 appears to be outcompeting BA.4 (and both are taking over from BA.2), but the sample sizes are again small. Health authorities said in their surveillance report last week "There is no evidence of a difference in disease severity but this is being closely monitored."

Authorities have reduced the reinfection period (time period when symptoms should be assumed to be a new infection) from 12 weeks to 4 weeks.

Kent350787 wrote:

I agree that the time for vaccine mandates has ended,

There never was a time for vaccine mandates in the first place. Keep the vaccines optional, encourage people to get vaccinated, and make people trust the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines - that is a far healthier solution in the long run.

fallap wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

I agree that the time for vaccine mandates has ended,

There never was a time for vaccine mandates in the first place. Keep the vaccines optional, encourage people to get vaccinated, and make people trust the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines - that is a far healthier solution in the long run.

Vaccine mandates were vary effective in Australia, helping drive our high vax rates and protect vulnerable communities. And those high vax rates are an important reason why our death rate did not balloon once border controls eased.

Kent350787 wrote:

fallap wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

I agree that the time for vaccine mandates has ended,

There never was a time for vaccine mandates in the first place. Keep the vaccines optional, encourage people to get vaccinated, and make people trust the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines - that is a far healthier solution in the long run.

Vaccine mandates were vary effective in Australia, helping drive our high vax rates and protect vulnerable communities. And those high vax rates are an important reason why our death rate did not balloon once border controls eased.

Denmark has equally high vaccination rates and negligible mortality rates, and we didn't have to enforce a vaccination mandate.

Vaccination mandates are something you come to expect from authoritarian regimes like Russia and China, which legitimacy rests on the notion of stability (among the reasons why China has lost its marbles with the zero-covid policy) and because they don't have to answer to any voters. But open democracies such as Australia should encourage and make the population trust the vaccines, perhaps create some positive incentives, information campaigns etc, and still respect people's decision not to have one. Unless we are faced with a pandemic with a massive mortality rates (say Ebola or something like that) then vaccination mandates are not the right tool, it is also, in my opinion, a violation of the privacy of the individual body as well as the individual's right to autonomy over their own body. My concern is that we create a precedent for governments to use their monopoly of violence to impose upon us vaccinations etc. where the long term effects are unknown.

I have full confidence in the COVID-19 vaccines, after all I have had three shots - so that ought to rule me out as an anti-waxer. But I still prefer it being my own choice whether I am getting a vaccine or not, and not ending up one day being subjected to a faulty vaccine because of another pandemic etc.

Chemist wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

It's always possible that we've had asymptomatic infections, but since we've been in contact with almost nobody, and when near anybody we've had N95s on, it's doubtful.

The vaccines do reduce the risk and spread of the disease as the viral load is lower and the shedding is lower when you are vaccinated. You can Google for that info; there are many articles out there such as:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... udies-show

It's not a binary situation where the vax either does or does not allow transmission. There are differences that are significant. The value of vaccines is also to reduce overload on the hospital system, something that a fairly high case rate in the USA, yet relatively low hospitalization rate, is accomplishing. It's currently way better than when the population was naive (unvaxxed and had not had the virus).

There could be a variant that would evade the vaccine's protection against serious illness. Since the vaccine targets the spike protein, the same virus could have a larger alteration in the spike protein and that could be the result. Perhaps not very likely (thankfully).

As far as the flu vaccine, the decision on what flu strains will be targeted are made each year in Jan/Feb and then the vaccine is out by fall. For example, the late 2021 flu vaccine didn't guess very well and was not particularly effective against the actual strains that were present during this previous winter. COVID is going to have the same issues, plus we have a lot less experience with Covid and its vaccines than we do with influenza.

The studies done the article stated studies done in early and mid 2021. Article dated in January 2022, studies done in January 2021. They are out of date as the initial vaccines did have a huge level of effectiveness at stopping the alpha and delta variant in its tracks which is what was the reasoning for vaccine passports in late 2021. This was not the case with Omicron and getting lower with each variant that emerges.

We had a vaccine passport in Ontario from Sept 2021 to March 2022. When Omicron hit in December 2021 most of the infections were among the vaccinated it was in the ballpark 80% of the documented infections throughout the winter months. These people were technically the only people who could socialize and attend mass public gatherings and while it might be less transmissible in a vaccinated person it was spreading like crazy among the vaccinated.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-repor ... -1.5728291

Of those who tested positive, the Ministry of Health says 1,554 were unvaccinated, 386 were partially vaccinated, 9,255 were fully vaccinated and 387 had an unknown vaccination status.
Total cases for this day 11,582.

StarAC17 wrote:

Chemist wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

It's always possible that we've had asymptomatic infections, but since we've been in contact with almost nobody, and when near anybody we've had N95s on, it's doubtful.

The vaccines do reduce the risk and spread of the disease as the viral load is lower and the shedding is lower when you are vaccinated. You can Google for that info; there are many articles out there such as:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... udies-show

It's not a binary situation where the vax either does or does not allow transmission. There are differences that are significant. The value of vaccines is also to reduce overload on the hospital system, something that a fairly high case rate in the USA, yet relatively low hospitalization rate, is accomplishing. It's currently way better than when the population was naive (unvaxxed and had not had the virus).

There could be a variant that would evade the vaccine's protection against serious illness. Since the vaccine targets the spike protein, the same virus could have a larger alteration in the spike protein and that could be the result. Perhaps not very likely (thankfully).

As far as the flu vaccine, the decision on what flu strains will be targeted are made each year in Jan/Feb and then the vaccine is out by fall. For example, the late 2021 flu vaccine didn't guess very well and was not particularly effective against the actual strains that were present during this previous winter. COVID is going to have the same issues, plus we have a lot less experience with Covid and its vaccines than we do with influenza.

The studies done the article stated studies done in early and mid 2021. Article dated in January 2022, studies done in January 2021. They are out of date as the initial vaccines did have a huge level of effectiveness at stopping the alpha and delta variant in its tracks which is what was the reasoning for vaccine passports in late 2021. This was not the case with Omicron and getting lower with each variant that emerges.

We had a vaccine passport in Ontario from Sept 2021 to March 2022. When Omicron hit in December 2021 most of the infections were among the vaccinated it was in the ballpark 80% of the documented infections throughout the winter months. These people were technically the only people who could socialize and attend mass public gatherings and while it might be less transmissible in a vaccinated person it was spreading like crazy among the vaccinated.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-repor ... -1.5728291

Of those who tested positive, the Ministry of Health says 1,554 were unvaccinated, 386 were partially vaccinated, 9,255 were fully vaccinated and 387 had an unknown vaccination status.
Total cases for this day 11,582.

We know from studies even from recent variants that the vaccinations from the original virus still provide huge levels of protection against serious illness and death. What they don't do nearly as well as before is protect against catching it in the first place.

Chemist wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

Chemist wrote:

The studies done the article stated studies done in early and mid 2021. Article dated in January 2022, studies done in January 2021. They are out of date as the initial vaccines did have a huge level of effectiveness at stopping the alpha and delta variant in its tracks which is what was the reasoning for vaccine passports in late 2021. This was not the case with Omicron and getting lower with each variant that emerges.

We had a vaccine passport in Ontario from Sept 2021 to March 2022. When Omicron hit in December 2021 most of the infections were among the vaccinated it was in the ballpark 80% of the documented infections throughout the winter months. These people were technically the only people who could socialize and attend mass public gatherings and while it might be less transmissible in a vaccinated person it was spreading like crazy among the vaccinated.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-repor ... -1.5728291

Of those who tested positive, the Ministry of Health says 1,554 were unvaccinated, 386 were partially vaccinated, 9,255 were fully vaccinated and 387 had an unknown vaccination status.
Total cases for this day 11,582.

We know from studies even from recent variants that the vaccinations from the original virus still provide huge levels of protection against serious illness and death. What they don't do nearly as well as before is protect against catching it in the first place.

That is consistent with the other four endemic coronaviruses that cause the common cold and that of the flu. Often these infections proliferate in the upper respiratory system which has low blood flow and less critical to injure or kill the infected. Once the infection gets to the lower respiratory system the immune system identifies the infection and destroys it quickly. Usually T-Cells pick it up and attack the virus and your memory B-cells will generate antibodies to neutralize the virus.

Your body knows what is critical and what is less important. Pneumonia is bad but an upper respiratory infection is a nuisance and it acts accordingly.

Even if the flu shot is a terrible match in a given year it does provide protection against severe illness and death.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus ... lem-152204

https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/22/the ... eir-power/