My vote is cast.

I was surprised to see one of my former colleagues running in this election. Decent enough person but the party has no chance these days.

It would have been nicer to vote in person and see if any parties would do more to buy my vote, but unfortunately not.

Never stand between a pork-barrel and an Australian voter.

The LNP had a train wreck interview, they doctored the transcript afterwards:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -12-months

Kudos to Guardian for being on the ball and picking up on that, it could easily slip through.

I’m still undecided about whether I should vote Greens for my first preference. I don’t support them per se, and they have zero chance of winning my seat which is fairly marginal ALP but held by Liberals in the recent past, but I’m quite disillusioned by the ALP’s small target strategy.

I align with the ‘teals’, ABC Vote Compass had me slightly right of centre but almost as progressive as the Greens. The federal Liberals aren’t an option for me, I supported Berejiklian and might still vote for Perrottet, but will not support their federal counterparts.

I am disappointed in federal Labor. While I didn’t agree with everything, I voted ALP in 2019 because - love it or hate it - they at least had a bold agenda, and were prepared to tackle serious issues such as tax reform. I believed that, while not perfect, Shorten’s reform agenda was better than doing nothing. Now the ALP are too scared to propose any meaningful reform, and are instead running on ‘we’re not Morrison’. I’ll be glad to see him gone, but I’m frustrated that macroeconomic reform is off the table for the foreseeable future.

Hence my conundrum with the Greens. I’ll preference Labor, so in the House of Reps it will just be a protest vote by not giving ALP my primary vote. In the Senate, the sixth NSW senator will likely be ALP #3 v Greens (assuming 2 Lib, 2 ALP, 1 Nat which seems to be pretty much locked in). While I don’t agree with much of their platform, I’m tempted to see more seats for the non-major parties in the Senate.

With 2 weeks to go, I’m hopeful that the ALP will give me pause to reconsider so that I don’t have to protest vote.

You cannot have bold agendas, because they get shot down in flames by scare campaigns.

You could put forward an awesome policy, while I can shoot it down by making a long attack with words like elite, socialist, leftie, soviet, un-Australian, stealing the weekend, bludging, etc.

Blame the media as well for aiding and abetting these scare campaigns.

So we lose out, no big visions, just ludicrous pork-barrels in marginal electorates.

If you want Morrison gone then you have to bite the bullet and vote with the party that has the best chance to do so. Otherwise it’s another four years of dodging responsibility when something goes wrong (like interest rates) or claiming responsibility when something is good (like low interest rates).

The BBC had an interesting piece on the logistics of remote voting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-australia-61317755

cpd wrote:

You cannot have bold agendas, because they get shot down in flames by scare campaigns.

You could put forward an awesome policy, while I can shoot it down by making a long attack with words like elite, socialist, leftie, soviet, un-Australian, stealing the weekend, bludging, etc.

Blame the media as well for aiding and abetting these scare campaigns.

So we lose out, no big visions, just ludicrous pork-barrels in marginal electorates.

If you want Morrison gone then you have to bite the bullet and vote with the party that has the best chance to do so. Otherwise it’s another four years of dodging responsibility when something goes wrong (like interest rates) or claiming responsibility when something is good (like low interest rates).

For instance our National Disability Insurance Scheme needs reform after 9 years of Liberal neglect. Labor has a plan but because Albo couldn’t recite it word for word they media slaughtered him.

Morrison and his scumbag Liberals ran it into the ground, have no plan to repair it and probably want to sell it off, and the media lick his backside.

It’s disgusting how much the media are in the tank for the Coalition this election. News Corp, 7, 9, Radio, even the ABC turned on Albo when he went on Q&A and the host (ex Murdoch hack) Ridley interrupted him the whole night.

Morrison refuses to be questioned by anyone unfriendly and the media love him.

After all the corruption and ineptitude of the Liberals their media allies will get them re-elected.

RyanairGuru wrote:

With 2 weeks to go, I’m hopeful that the ALP will give me pause to reconsider so that I don’t have to protest vote.

With our preferential voting it doesn’t matter who you select at number one. It’s who you preference higher out of the ALP or the Coalition.

There’s one seat in Melbourne where it’s the ALP vs Greens as the top two choices, there’s a few more where it’s the “teal” Independents vs the Liberals as the top two choices. In every other seat it’s ALP vs Coalition. You could number every other party first but it comes down to who you put second last over last out of the ALP and the Coalition that counts.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

RyanairGuru wrote:

With 2 weeks to go, I’m hopeful that the ALP will give me pause to reconsider so that I don’t have to protest vote.

With our preferential voting it doesn’t matter who you select at number one. It’s who you preference higher out of the ALP or the Coalition.

There’s one seat in Melbourne where it’s the ALP vs Greens as the top two choices, there’s a few more where it’s the “teal” Independents vs the Liberals as the top two choices. In every other seat it’s ALP vs Coalition. You could number every other party first but it comes down to who you put second last over last out of the ALP and the Coalition that counts.

Oh I realise that, my electorate is definitely ALP v Liberal with no viable third candidate. Where there is a viable third option primary votes (or at least preferences 1, 2, 3) could be relevant in determining who makes the final two, but everywhere else it’s irrelevant so long as you preference your preferred major party.

Last night’s debate was atrocious. I can’t imagine a single undecided voter changed their mind, other than deciding to donkey vote or deface their ballot.

I think The Guardian’s Katherine Murphy summed it up succinctly:

It’s hard to find words for how terrible that second leaders’ debate was. A genuine shit blizzard. It was the Jerry Springer of leaders’ debates.

…

This could be funny, of course, and perhaps if I wasn’t so worried about the state of democratic discourse and the media’s role in safeguarding it I might have laughed. But I don’t think laughing is the right response.

It’s hard to know what the two leaders will have made of it. Probably neither will give it much thought, because something so pointless can’t possibly be material.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -hectoring

RyanairGuru wrote:

Last night’s debate was atrocious. I can’t imagine a single undecided voter changed their mind, other than deciding to donkey vote or deface their ballot.

Yes the format was excruciating mind numbing, it certainly would have turned many voters off. It certainly wasn't a debate it was soundbites and catchphrases

Each side kept saying they had a plan but no one actually can say what the plan is, you feel like punching Albo in the face. Morrison can recite the King James bible for all I know but that not telling us how they are moving forward.

If they are going to debate then debate let it free flow, lets have a proper debate that lasts for atleast 3 hours

RyanairGuru wrote:

Last night’s debate was atrocious. I can’t imagine a single undecided voter changed their mind, other than deciding to donkey vote or deface their ballot.

With Chris Uhlmann there it should have ended in Anthony Albanese being roasted, but apparently not so. It should have been a one-sided set-up.

Too late for me anyway, my vote is already done even before this. News Limited in the last week will decide who wins the election when it finally decides to run election reporting instead of Guy Sebastian or hollywood legal trials.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Morrison and his scumbag Liberals ran it into the ground, have no plan to repair it and probably want to sell it off, and the media lick his backside.

That's what we elected them to do, the majority of Australia only cares about what's in it for them, what hand-outs they are going to get. They don't care about NDIS and those who rely on NDIS until they suddenly need to make use of it themselves.

cpd wrote:

Too late for me anyway, my vote is already done even before this. News Limited in the last week will decide who wins the election when it finally decides to run election reporting instead of Guy Sebastian or hollywood legal trials.

I think its quite pointed that the News tabloids don't have the debate on their front page today, rather attacks on teal independents. The Oz did have the debate, but was calling it more a draw. It looks like News is effectively running dead now, as it will never fully switch its support to Labor.

Unlike 2019, the polls are firming for Labor rather than narrowing into the margin of error area. The Oz is reporting on Albanese's polling as preferred PM being around 40%, ignoring that that the most recent Ipsos poll shows Morrison at 32%, with a full 51% of respondents dissatisfied with him.

I will post my vote once out of Covid isolation, but am in a safe Labor seat where a Lib was nominated 5 minutes before closing and is unknown. I'd expect my local MP (who is also Mr Albanese's local MP) will be returned with at least a 20% two part preferred margin over her Greens opponent.

Post-election, the Liberals will need to do soul searching on how they seek to engage the "sensible centre" in the future. It will be a choice between bringing liberals back into the Liberal "broad church" or allowing a new centrist grouping and seeking either agreement for minority Government or an even broader coalition to regain Government.

Kent350787 wrote:

Post-election, the Liberals will need to do soul searching on how they seek to engage the "sensible centre" in the future. It will be a choice between bringing liberals back into the Liberal "broad church" or allowing a new centrist grouping and seeking either agreement for minority Government or an even broader coalition to regain Government.

That’s why I haven’t completely switched off the NSW Liberals, they are still a ‘broad church’ with people like Treasurer Matt Kean who are very centrist and probably closer to much of the Labor Party than their own right wing. Over the past 10 years, there have been two moderates (Barry O’Farrell, Gladys Berejiklian) and two conservatives (Mike Baird, Dominic Perrottet) and each time the treasurer was from the opposite faction (Baird, Berejiklian, Perrottet, Kean). While never perfect, they have done a pretty decent job after the ALP ran the NSW government into the ground while self-absorbed with infighting and corruption. While toll roads are increasingly becoming a ‘cost of living’ issue, as tolls are mandated to rise 8% every year, the investment in infrastructure has been welcome after a lost decade under Labor. I think the jury is out about whether they deserve a fourth term, and I will be watching Perrottet closely over the 10 months between now and the state election, but overall I am pretty satisfied with them. Unfortunately I can’t say the same for the federal Libs.

The state lot too need to be tossed out as well, they’ve had plenty of scandals too. A reset there would also probably mean a reset at the top of the government departments in senior executive levels too.

What we really need is a viable third party that isn’t a bunch of crazies like One Nation or Palmer. Something with real vision that isn’t chained to the 24 hour news cycle or lobbyists.

cpd wrote:

With Chris Uhlmann there it should have ended in Anthony Albanese being roasted, but apparently not so. It should have been a one-sided set-up.

I bet the media are furious after 3 weeks of solid Albo bashing the ALP’s polls haven’t dropped, and have improved slightly. Expect the Albo bashing campaign to intensify from now til Election Day.

Kent350787 wrote:

Post-election, the Liberals will need to do soul searching on how they seek to engage the "sensible centre" in the future. It will be a choice between bringing liberals back into the Liberal "broad church" or allowing a new centrist grouping and seeking either agreement for minority Government or an even broader coalition to regain Government.

The problem for the Liberals is the Nationals. The Liberals cannot form a Coalition without them, especially the Queensland Nationals.

On the other hand if the the “teal” movement gains ground it could rob the Liberals of long held blue ribbon inner city seats.

So the remaining Liberals will have to negotiate with two factions that are almost polar opposites. Socially conservative coal mining rural types and socially progressive climate concerned inner city types. Hardcore rural types vs Greens with money.

I’m struggling to conceive how those two factions will ever agree.

This could be a watershed moment in history. The split between the ALP and the DLP in the 50s kept the Coalition in power for 20 years straight. A split between the now mostly conservative Liberals and the former blue ribbon more progressive “teals” could do similar to the Liberals.

cpd wrote:

What we really need is a viable third party that isn’t a bunch of crazies like One Nation or Palmer. Something with real vision that isn’t chained to the 24 hour news cycle or lobbyists.

Unfortunately that’s not going to happen. Australian media is dominated by 3 powerful people, Murdoch, Stokes and Costello. All right wing.

Tbh forget what how media speaks about them and look at the Greens policies. Similar to a lot of socially progressive and social Democrat parties in Europe, not far left.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

cpd wrote:

What we really need is a viable third party that isn’t a bunch of crazies like One Nation or Palmer. Something with real vision that isn’t chained to the 24 hour news cycle or lobbyists.

Unfortunately that’s not going to happen. Australian media is dominated by 3 powerful people, Murdoch, Stokes and Costello. All right wing.

Tbh forget what how media speaks about them and look at the Greens policies. Similar to a lot of socially progressive and social Democrat parties in Europe, not far left.

I do like the Greens, but they just don’t have enough clout to be a big block in parliament. They have a lot of good ideas on making our country genuinely better, not just building car parks in marginal electorates. Or sports rorts for that matter.

And besides, you aren’t allowed to vote green. What would all your friends and colleagues say! It’s not socially acceptable. You must keep up appearances, right wing, premium German car, big $2 million McMansion, etc.

Hey guys,
Interesting thread.... But not really reflective of what I hear in my area. Many locals around me whinge about ScoMo openly but then say that there is no way they would risk Australia's future by voting Albo. I think it will make for aN interesting night in a few weeks, and we may not know a result for a little while afterwards.
It's fascinating because I have never heard such intensely focussed 'personality' talk. Even with all the Rudd cultists and the Hawkies decades before, I haven't heard such a focus on the personalities heading the parties rather than on the parties themselves.
I agree with cpd above that no-one I know would 'publicly' vote Green as it's 'not socially acceptable'... Even though I personally have no problem with it. I hear less talk of the Greens in this election than I have for years.
I wish that our federal election wasn't a QF v VA type duopoly, with a side helping of Rex and Bonza (the great unknown lol). A viable third major option would be great: Don Chip, we need you!
I'm particularly interested in the seat of Fowler, where I grew up and where my parents still live. Kristina Keneally will struggle to win the seat, in my opinion and that of my family. Point blank she is the Labor Party's biggest mistake. The local independent candidate Dai Le is doing everything right and gaining grass roots support: I see it and hear it every time I am in the area. My parents have been true blue liberals all of their lives and for the first time will NOT be voting liberal but instead independent, purely to spite Keneally and the Labor party's sheer arrogance in parachuting her into Fowler. They will be voting Dai Le purely to stop Kristina Keneally. Oh and on the ground in Fowler, the Mean Girls stench has not been forgotten despite the Labor efforts to bury it.
Me personally... Undecided where my vote will go, in a marginal labor seat.
One day I will follow my ancestors into politics, continuing my career trajectory. When I do, I hope that the political landscape is one different to now, more open and representative of the community I live in.
Take care, and vote wisely.
Bunumuring.

A friend of mine did serve in government actually. I won’t say which one and despite everything he said, there is no way I’d ever get into that world. Actually in his time political standards were a bit better than now, it had not descended to gutter trash behaviour and actually members of the opposing sides did get along quite well, with a few exceptions.

Yes, I feel that things could and should be different but why would anyone submit themselves to the 24 hour media cycle and snotty nosed over-entitled journos. No way.

In the old days we had journos who could really ask tough questions and get answers. And without resorting to gotcha questions. Those old school journos were smart.


In any case, the only party whose values even slightly align with mine are the Greens. The others are disgraceful.

Watched the final debate last night , thought it was a little better run than the other night

I didn’t think any more was really gained from just more of the same dribble, you could see the ScoMo wanted to go on full attack but held his tongue, and I thought Albo was prevaricating a bit on a few points especially on wages

[twoid][/twoid]

A101 wrote:

Watched the final debate last night , thought it was a little better run than the other night

I didn’t think any more was really gained from just more of the same dribble, you could see the ScoMo wanted to go on full attack but held his tongue, and I thought Albo was prevaricating a bit on a few points especially on wages

On the viewer polls Albo won all 3 debates, including the one on Sky which is in no way friendly to him. Last night’s tally was Albo 50%, Morrison 34% and 16% undecided.

Two points stood out. When Morrison was rambling on not answering question the moderator called him out on it “you’re smashing out talking points there Scott....”

Secondly at the end when each candidate was asked to compliment the other, Albo made a reference to Scott’s making it to the PM role and his commitment to mental health, and left it at that. Morrison said Albo had done well to rise to opposition leader from a poor background, but then in the answer he immediately switched it into an attack on Albo being “unfit for office” when Albo’s response to the same question was only positive remarks. The moderator called it a “compliment sandwich”.

Just shows the difference in character between the two.

I still suspect LNP will win, people tell opinion polls one thing when they will do something else.

LNP does seem desperate, campaign staff are not supporting the star Warringah candidate, Tony Abbott has been pulled out of retirement to rally the troops.

Also complaints of the moderate teal candidates having “no right” to depose Liberal MPs.

We’ve even had a rollout of the old favourite, the high speed train. Just weeks away from the election!

If LNP does lose, it will be their own infighting and power struggles that are to blame. Trying to be a GOP replica isn’t helping either.

cpd wrote:

I still suspect LNP will win, people tell opinion polls one thing when they will do something else.

LNP does seem desperate, campaign staff are not supporting the star Warringah candidate, Tony Abbott has been pulled out of retirement to rally the troops.

Also complaints of the moderate teal candidates having “no right” to depose Liberal MPs.

We’ve even had a rollout of the old favourite, the high speed train. Just weeks away from the election!

I'm starting to be of the view that the Coalition are toast, and the desperation across all quarters is showing:

- the BS about the teal independents. These are primarily people/families who were previously firmly wedded to the Liberal party but for whom the Libs no longer represent their interests. The Libs have brought about this issue but staunchly refuse to own it, blaming the electorate for supporting the independents rather than asking why. As for Abbott's callout to support Deves in Warringah, given the electroate dumped him in 2019 and Deves is so badly tainted - soon to be winners are grinners Zali!

- the preferred PM polling. People are less likely to say one thing and do another here. It is clear that over half the people polled by various polls are dissatisfied with Morrison, and a lower number with Albanese. This was generally the other way around for Morrison and Shorten last election. People gave Morrison the benfit of the doubt last time, and they won't do that again.

- the fact that up to half of the votes may be pre-poll/postal, and so many are being cast already, when Labor has a clear lead in polling. The 2PP polling, shows Labour at up to 57%, way ahead of anything at this stage in 2019, where it closed to only a 1-2% difference between the two by election day.

I'll never be happy that there is a clear outcome until the result is called, but all indicators I'm seeing are pointing towards a Labor Government.

Kent350787 wrote:

cpd wrote:

I still suspect LNP will win, people tell opinion polls one thing when they will do something else.

LNP does seem desperate, campaign staff are not supporting the star Warringah candidate, Tony Abbott has been pulled out of retirement to rally the troops.

Also complaints of the moderate teal candidates having “no right” to depose Liberal MPs.

We’ve even had a rollout of the old favourite, the high speed train. Just weeks away from the election!

I'm starting to be of the view that the Coalition are toast, and the desperation across all quarters is showing:

- the BS about the teal independents. These are primarily people/families who were previously firmly wedded to the Liberal party but for whom the Libs no longer represent their interests. The Libs have brought about this issue but staunchly refuse to own it, blaming the electorate for supporting the independents rather than asking why. As for Abbott's callout to support Deves in Warringah, given the electroate dumped him in 2019 and Deves is so badly tainted - soon to be winners are grinners Zali!

- the preferred PM polling. People are less likely to say one thing and do another here. It is clear that over half the people polled by various polls are dissatisfied with Morrison, and a lower number with Albanese. This was generally the other way around for Morrison and Shorten last election. People gave Morrison the benfit of the doubt last time, and they won't do that again.

- the fact that up to half of the votes may be pre-poll/postal, and so many are being cast already, when Labor has a clear lead in polling. The 2PP polling, shows Labour at up to 57%, way ahead of anything at this stage in 2019, where it closed to only a 1-2% difference between the two by election day.

I'll never be happy that there is a clear outcome until the result is called, but all indicators I'm seeing are pointing towards a Labor Government.

Agree I think it will be an ALP win, I’m just hoping that there is no hung parliament. I want either party to be clear winners or losers a hung parliament will be disastrous

But who ever wins they are going to be in for a rough time, no mater what each say intrest rates and inflation cannot be totally controlled by the government, and I think world is heading towards another GFC of some description


I have cast my vote and have done my civic duty

The PM and his security detail have been involved in farcical scenes that look more like something in China:

https://www.news.com.au/national/federa ... 294309d13c

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5akuj.html

The “true” version of the news and the “socialist” fake news version are above. (sarcasm alert)

If that’s how they treat an elderly former High Commissioner, what hope do us regular folk have?

This is a bad look for the PM.

Maybe they want to throw away this election and use it to get rid of all the moderate elements of the LNP and then rebuild it all as a far right party. They are certainly going the right way to make that happen.

A101 wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

cpd wrote:

I still suspect LNP will win, people tell opinion polls one thing when they will do something else.

LNP does seem desperate, campaign staff are not supporting the star Warringah candidate, Tony Abbott has been pulled out of retirement to rally the troops.

Also complaints of the moderate teal candidates having “no right” to depose Liberal MPs.

We’ve even had a rollout of the old favourite, the high speed train. Just weeks away from the election!

I'm starting to be of the view that the Coalition are toast, and the desperation across all quarters is showing:

- the BS about the teal independents. These are primarily people/families who were previously firmly wedded to the Liberal party but for whom the Libs no longer represent their interests. The Libs have brought about this issue but staunchly refuse to own it, blaming the electorate for supporting the independents rather than asking why. As for Abbott's callout to support Deves in Warringah, given the electroate dumped him in 2019 and Deves is so badly tainted - soon to be winners are grinners Zali!

- the preferred PM polling. People are less likely to say one thing and do another here. It is clear that over half the people polled by various polls are dissatisfied with Morrison, and a lower number with Albanese. This was generally the other way around for Morrison and Shorten last election. People gave Morrison the benfit of the doubt last time, and they won't do that again.

- the fact that up to half of the votes may be pre-poll/postal, and so many are being cast already, when Labor has a clear lead in polling. The 2PP polling, shows Labour at up to 57%, way ahead of anything at this stage in 2019, where it closed to only a 1-2% difference between the two by election day.

I'll never be happy that there is a clear outcome until the result is called, but all indicators I'm seeing are pointing towards a Labor Government.

Agree I think it will be an ALP win, I’m just hoping that there is no hung parliament. I want either party to be clear winners or losers a hung parliament will be disastrous

But who ever wins they are going to be in for a rough time, no mater what each say intrest rates and inflation cannot be totally controlled by the government, and I think world is heading towards another GFC of some description


I have cast my vote and have done my civic duty

People are seriously suggesting 80 seats for Labor at this point. Another two candidates in Lib held marginal seats have aimed pretty squarely at their feet today. Admittedly in Bennelong it was anti-vax volunteers who have now been dumped, but the candiate had already been tarred as an anti-vaxer.

Yes, it is looking like Labor will be exlected then expected to fix the economic trap the Coalition has left for them, yet again. The stage 3 income tax cuts are the most egregious.

The best thing they can do now is to absolutely blast the coalition on its economic mismanagement right up until the election in every way they can, because as you rightly point out, they will be blamed for it, even though none of this is the fault of Albanese or his party.

If LNP should somehow win, then the media will give them a free pass to do whatever they want with no scrutiny…

If Labor wins, they will be under the microscope for every tiny decision they make and blamed for the disastrous state of the economy they were left with.

The LNP spendthrift ways of recent have set up an economic time mob that will perfectly go off while they are in opposition. Then next election they will again lie about the awesome LNP economic credentials.

Edit: I didn’t notice the anti-vaxxer incident until you brought it up:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... teers-from -campaign-20220512-p5akrc.html

These people… but the candidate has an interesting background too:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5ag7c.html

“I haven’t read the Biosecurity Act in full honesty, I’m not across it … but individual freedoms is [sic] one of my three core values.”

Where do they find these clowns? If you aren’t across it and didn’t read the act, then don’t make decisions. It sounds like the PM with his “that’s not my job”…

Kent350787 wrote:

A101 wrote:

Kent350787 wrote:

I'm starting to be of the view that the Coalition are toast, and the desperation across all quarters is showing:

- the BS about the teal independents. These are primarily people/families who were previously firmly wedded to the Liberal party but for whom the Libs no longer represent their interests. The Libs have brought about this issue but staunchly refuse to own it, blaming the electorate for supporting the independents rather than asking why. As for Abbott's callout to support Deves in Warringah, given the electroate dumped him in 2019 and Deves is so badly tainted - soon to be winners are grinners Zali!

- the preferred PM polling. People are less likely to say one thing and do another here. It is clear that over half the people polled by various polls are dissatisfied with Morrison, and a lower number with Albanese. This was generally the other way around for Morrison and Shorten last election. People gave Morrison the benfit of the doubt last time, and they won't do that again.

- the fact that up to half of the votes may be pre-poll/postal, and so many are being cast already, when Labor has a clear lead in polling. The 2PP polling, shows Labour at up to 57%, way ahead of anything at this stage in 2019, where it closed to only a 1-2% difference between the two by election day.

I'll never be happy that there is a clear outcome until the result is called, but all indicators I'm seeing are pointing towards a Labor Government.

Agree I think it will be an ALP win, I’m just hoping that there is no hung parliament. I want either party to be clear winners or losers a hung parliament will be disastrous

But who ever wins they are going to be in for a rough time, no mater what each say intrest rates and inflation cannot be totally controlled by the government, and I think world is heading towards another GFC of some description


I have cast my vote and have done my civic duty

People are seriously suggesting 80 seats for Labor at this point. Another two candidates in Lib held marginal seats have aimed pretty squarely at their feet today. Admittedly in Bennelong it was anti-vax volunteers who have now been dumped, but the candiate had already been tarred as an anti-vaxer.

Quite a lot of undecide which indecently included me. its those voters who will decide the election outcome.

I was looking for more out of the debates which were not forthcoming, I have lost faith in the mainstream but in the end I could not vote for a possible hung parliament either

Kent350787 wrote:

Yes, it is looking like Labor will be exlected then expected to fix the economic trap the Coalition has left for them, yet again. The stage 3 income tax cuts are the most egregious.

ALP cant complain about that they have endorsed those tax cuts, why I suppose they realized they were going to get the most benefits out of it

cpd wrote:

These people… but the candidate has an interesting background too:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5ag7c.html

“I haven’t read the Biosecurity Act in full honesty, I’m not across it … but individual freedoms is [sic] one of my three core values.”

Where do they find these clowns? If you aren’t across it and didn’t read the act, then don’t make decisions. It sounds like the PM with his “that’s not my job”…

That's one thing you cannot claim about Scomo not knowing his facts and figure, he is certainly across the various briefs, unlike Albo


But put them in context to what was actually said

https://twitter.com/LiberalAus/status/1 ... 74d3a6b80b

The relatively large “undecided” vote is problematic for the ALP. In 2019 the undecided vote swung decisively to Morrison, which is basically what won him the election, and at the 2017 plebiscite the undecided vote swung to voting ‘no’ on gay marriage.

Either these people aren’t undecided but don’t want to admit to supporting Morrison/opposing gay marriage or, if they are still genuinely undecided by polling day, they vote for the status quo.

Morrison knows that, which is why he knows he still has a horse in this race.

That said, Morrison’s willingness to throw the moderates under the bus in the vague hope of winning outer-suburban and regional voters in Western Sydney and the Hunter is somewhat confusing. According to Niki Savva, a well respected journo with deep connections, three senior Liberals said that the PMO orchestrated Deves walking back her non-apology for anti-trans statements, to get that ‘culture war’ issue back on the agenda. That is poison in North Sydney, Wentworth, Kooyong and (maybe) Goldstein and Curtin (Warringah is totally gone at this point). Loosing 3 or 4 sitting members in the hope of picking up a couple of seats from the ALP seems … odd. The maths doesn’t add up. Unless, of course, internal polling shows that North Sydney et al are already lost.

Source: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5akb9.html

It wouldn’t surprise me that the PMO really is that bad. Using Deves as cannon fodder to try and win some outer suburban seats…

Thing is, outer suburban seats aren’t entirely anti-PC and all that BS either.

It’s just lazy trying to win on divisive issues and says they don’t have any real vision nor do they care about the country. Just win at all costs and self interest

All that said, Nikki Savva is seen as a traitor by some on the LNP side. They hate her.

The other thing that confuses me is the Liberals holding their campaign launch in Brisbane. Either they lack imagination or their internal polling is worse than they wish to admit. While Brisbane (the electorate), Longman and Leichhardt and are on the long-list of seats the ALP would like to pick up, and likewise Lilley for the Liberals, most of the reporting I’ve read is that the likely result in Queensland is no seats changing hands. Holding the launch there seems a waste of resources, and holding it in Parramatta or Newcastle would have seemed like the more “ballsy” move (like the ALP going to Perth) if they were serious about targeting those areas.

A101 wrote:

cpd wrote:

These people… but the candidate has an interesting background too:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 5ag7c.html

“I haven’t read the Biosecurity Act in full honesty, I’m not across it … but individual freedoms is [sic] one of my three core values.”

Where do they find these clowns? If you aren’t across it and didn’t read the act, then don’t make decisions. It sounds like the PM with his “that’s not my job”…

That's one thing you cannot claim about Scomo not knowing his facts and figure, he is certainly across the various briefs, unlike Albo


But put them in context to what was actually said

https://twitter.com/LiberalAus/status/1 ... 74d3a6b80b

He just goes on holidays instead.

The LNP can whinge about the what they call lies, but they are very good at lies also and have used them effectively before, so it’s coming back to bite them.

The Labor campaign is resonating, that’s why the LNP hate it so much.

I don't think the right-wing of the NSW Liberal party ever thought they could win this election. Their behaviour over the past 12 months with preselections demonstrates that. It's more important to purify the party by getting rid of the moderates by not preselecting them or having them knocked over by teal candidates. Probably very happy that Deves is helping to achieve that end. Any improvement in their votes from Deves in the outer suburban electorates is a side benefit.

Reality is the Liberal party needs to keep all its moderates and pick up a few more electorates in NSW to have any chance of winning the election to offset loses in other states.

I do find it strange the harping on about Morrison being in Hawaii when we had the fires. Dan Andrews took just about all of January off this year during the rise of Omicron with little negative press, and health is primarily a state responsibility.

A101 wrote:

[

Quite a lot of undecide which indecently included me. its those voters who will decide the election outcome.

Kent350787 wrote:

Yes, it is looking like Labor will be exlected then expected to fix the economic trap the Coalition has left for them, yet again. The stage 3 income tax cuts are the most egregious.

ALP cant complain about that they have endorsed those tax cuts, why I suppose they realized they were going to get the most benefits out of it

For me, the undecideds are clearest in the preferred PM polling, where people know they displike Morrison, but aren't as certain about Albanese. At the same point in 2019 they knew they didn't like Shorten but weren't sure about Morrison.

As for the stage 3 tax cuts, Labor had no choice politcally but to support them, even though they are economically stupid. It will be intersting to see what the budgetary wash-up is next year.

alanb976 wrote:

I don't think the right-wing of the NSW Liberal party ever thought they could win this election. Their behaviour over the past 12 months with preselections demonstrates that. It's more important to purify the party by getting rid of the moderates by not preselecting them or having them knocked over by teal candidates. Probably very happy that Deves is helping to achieve that end. Any improvement in their votes from Deves in the outer suburban electorates is a side benefit.

Reality is the Liberal party needs to keep all its moderates and pick up a few more electorates in NSW to have any chance of winning the election to offset loses in other states.

You’re probably right, the party’s vice-president talked last month about getting rid of “lefties” (her word) so they could “get back to our core purpose”.

The preselection fiasco, though, runs a bit deeper. Alex Hawke, the PM’s representative on the state council, continually boycotted meetings so that they couldn’t sign off on preselection ballots. It’s widely accepted that he was doing Morrison’s bidding, as Morrison always wanted to step in and select his own candidates but needed to run down the clock. For additional context, the moderate and conservative factions had done a deal where they carved up the seats and supported each other in the seats they weren’t contesting. The combined size of these two factions meant that Morrison’s centre-right faction had no hope of being successful in preselection ballots, so Morrison and Hawke decided to torpedo the process rather than allow preselections to go ahead. Morrison appears to want complete control over the NSW Liberals but know that he doesn’t have the numbers to do that, so will happily destroy the party for his own ends.

[quote="alanb976”] I do find it strange the harping on about Morrison being in Hawaii when we had the fires. Dan Andrews took just about all of January off this year during the rise of Omicron with little negative press, and health is primarily a state responsibility.[/quote]

More that anything else, I think the lying about it is what grated on people and made it stick. PMO initially denied he was away, and then denied he was in Hawaii, so to see pictures on social media insulted everyone’s intelligence.

The PM isn’t a god-like being, so in many ways I’m uncomfortable with the idea that they have to be seen to micromanage disasters, but had he said “I’m going to spend a week with my family, but I have an excellent team and have full confidence in my deputy and ministers to manage this situation” then it would probably have been a non-issue.

The PM isn’t a god-like being, so in many ways I’m uncomfortable with the idea that they have to be seen to micromanage disasters, but had he said “I’m going to spend a week with my family, but I have an excellent team and have full confidence in my deputy and ministers to manage this situation” then it would probably have been a non-issue.

I do agree the messaging around his Hawaii trip was poorly handled. Morrison does come across as needing to appear as being in control of everything. Similar mindset caused him problems with the covid response. Albanese doesn't seem to suffer from this as much. Does seem a decent bloke. Just wish he would stand for something more than not being Scott Morrison.

Kent350787 wrote:

As for the stage 3 tax cuts, Labor had no choice politcally but to support them, even though they are economically stupid. It will be intersting to see what the budgetary wash-up is next year.

They initially opposed them, then supported them its politicly motivated because of the potential backlash which would have inevitably happened in the campaign

I think they really just wanted to take away a debating point to the coalition in regards to wages and taxable income, it also comes back to Albo claim to increase productivity.

I know of a lot of people who want to work more but just didn't see the advantage between hours worked and net wages due tax paid because of bracket creep, so stage 3 does have its pro's & con's

alanb976 wrote:

I don't think the right-wing of the NSW Liberal party ever thought they could win this election. Their behaviour over the past 12 months with preselections demonstrates that. It's more important to purify the party by getting rid of the moderates by not preselecting them or having them knocked over by teal candidates. Probably very happy that Deves is helping to achieve that end. Any improvement in their votes from Deves in the outer suburban electorates is a side benefit.

If the Liberals allow the "teals" to grow however it won't serve them any benefit. Teal candidates are suited for those traditional blue ribbon Liberal areas, north shore and eastern Sydney, east and south east Melbourne and western Perth. Inner Brisbane is the next cab off the rank I'd expect. Wealthy but socially progressive. Why would they ever return to a party which then lurches to the right to be solely comprised of religious fundamentalists and rural conservatives? If a half a dozen teals get up, then combined with existing popular independents they could form a substantial voting bloc that ensures a conservative led Coalition never returns to power.

Just wish he would stand for something more than not being Scott Morrison.

Australia needs reform in tax, housing, spending, energy, climate, social policy etc. But those in power would mostly lose out from that reform, and as they control the messaging via the media. Meaning any Labor leader who has the guts to make that needed reform gets destroyed (look at how they went after Whitlam)

Unfortunately we then get Liberal lite in the ALP. They make some incremental changes, institute some things that benefit the nation (NDIS, NBN for example) and survive a term or two before the media attack dogs hound them into opposition. Then the Coalition returns to defund those programs and send the money to their rich mates.

Surprise surprise, the government is talking about “on water activities” for once:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/electio ... pb3#p53pb3

China is snooping around with one of its ships.

alanb976 wrote:

[Just wish he would stand for something more than not being Scott Morrison.

Mind you, Scott Morrison doesn't seem to want to be the Scott Morrison people know and hate either https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/13/even-scott-morrison-is-trying-to-distance-himself-from-scott-morrison-now?CMP=share_btn_tw

As for the "on water activities", Dutton takes the cake for bare faced gall this week in alleging that his trip to WA to announce this Chinese vessel offshore has nothing to do with politics.

alanb976 wrote:

I do find it strange the harping on about Morrison being in Hawaii when we had the fires.

Leaving your country for a secret holiday when you have been told a national disaster of a scale not seen before in the country is imminent is bad enough in of itself, but if that doesn't concern you then look at the other idiocy perpetrated by the Morrison government over bushfires:

Failure to meet with Fire Chiefs before Black Summer:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-14/ ... g/11705330

Failure to buy waterbombers and fund aerial firefighting capacity when warned:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-15/ ... s/12554300

Ignoring a bushfire victim's pleas for help:
https://apnews.com/article/asia-pacific ... 7e5ebf482a

Rudely forcing a handshake on a fatigued firefighter:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/a ... 25241.html

Trying to make a political campaign ad out of the tragedy:
https://www.adnews.com.au/news/why-the- ... h-a-bad-ad

Trying to direct bushfire relief donations to a Liberal party funding site:
https://newmatilda.com/2020/01/05/morri ... sponse-ad/

Lying about telling Albo he was going to Hawaii:
https://junkee.com/scott-morrison-hawai ... ese/315777

Saying firefighters "want to be there" fighting massive fires threatening their homes:
https://7news.com.au/politics/scott-mor ... --c-598843

"I don't hold a hose mate":
https://watsoniabugle.com/2019/12/20/ho ... doesnt-do/

One of his ministers insulting Fire Chiefs who wanted to raise Climate concerns:
https://probonoaustralia.com.au/news/20 ... e-of-need/

And ultimately ignoring the link between Climate and Bushfires against the weight of evidence:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -bushfires

My voting is all done and has been received by the AEC.

Good to get it out of the way but just a shame the circumstances that brought about that. Wrecked my year completely.

Kent350787 wrote:

alanb976 wrote:

[Just wish he would stand for something more than not being Scott Morrison.

Mind you, Scott Morrison doesn't seem to want to be the Scott Morrison people know and hate either https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/13/even-scott-morrison-is-trying-to-distance-himself-from-scott-morrison-now?CMP=share_btn_tw

As for the "on water activities", Dutton takes the cake for bare faced gall this week in alleging that his trip to WA to announce this Chinese vessel offshore has nothing to do with politics.

That’s really quite something. I sincerely believe that Morrison is incapable of changing. His record of learning from his mistakes is non-existent.

The Hawaii holiday, the tone-death “I don’t hold a hose mate”, the Cobargo debacle, his entire handling of the Black Summer fires was shambolic, lacked awareness of people’s concerns, and (metaphorically) was a week late and a dollar short. This should have been a learning curve for a PM who was still relatively new. Had he learnt from that experience he would be sitting much more comfortably in the polls today.

Instead we’ve seen the same slow response lacking in empathy to Covid (the states dragged him into taking action when he desperately wanted to avoid a national lockdown), Parliament’s sexual assault allegations (how could he bungle the response so badly when the public outrage was completely inevitable?), and most recently with the Northern Rivers floods (even Perrottet criticised him for blatant favourism of Lismore in a Nationals electorate over Labor-represented Ballina).

Morrison has had four years to learn from his mistakes. He has shown himself to be incapable of doing so. He did, however, hire an empathy coach. I’m jaded, but hearing that confirmed to me what I already suspected, the man is a sociopath.

RyanairGuru wrote:

Morrison has had four years to learn from his mistakes. He has shown himself to be incapable of doing so. He did, however, hire an empathy coach. I’m jaded, but hearing that confirmed to me what I already suspected, the man is a sociopath.

Well look at the comments of those who’ve worked closely with him from his own side of politics:

“Horrible and Untrustworthy” - Gladys Berejiklian

“A Hypocrite and a Liar” - Barnaby Joyce

“A bully with no moral compass” - Concetta Fierravanti-Wells

“A Compulsive Liar” - Michael Towke

“Self serving ruthless bully” - Catherine Cusack

“He has a habit of telling lies” - Malcolm Turnbull

“Menacing and controlling” - Julia Banks

And a special international review:

“A liar” - Emmanuel Macron

The Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years never produced hatred and vitriol on that level, and this is while the Coalition is still in power. If/when they lose power it will be interesting to see the floodgates open with members of the Liberals unleashing on what they really think of him.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

RyanairGuru wrote:

Morrison has had four years to learn from his mistakes. He has shown himself to be incapable of doing so. He did, however, hire an empathy coach. I’m jaded, but hearing that confirmed to me what I already suspected, the man is a sociopath.

Well look at the comments of those who’ve worked closely with him from his own side of politics:

“Horrible and Untrustworthy” - Gladys Berejiklian

“A Hypocrite and a Liar” - Barnaby Joyce

“A bully with no moral compass” - Concetta Fierravanti-Wells

“A Compulsive Liar” - Michael Towke

“Self serving ruthless bully” - Catherine Cusack

“He has a habit of telling lies” - Malcolm Turnbull

“Menacing and controlling” - Julia Banks

And a special international review:

“A liar” - Emmanuel Macron

The Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years never produced hatred and vitriol on that level, and this is while the Coalition is still in power. If/when they lose power it will be interesting to see the floodgates open with members of the Liberals unleashing on what they really think of him.

And everyone on that list had a bitch and gripe, because they did something stupid and were forced to leave or in the French case because of a losing contract in which he knew something was up, and it was the Americans who told the PM when he can let the French know of the nuc submarine deal. Macron Was shown to be lose with the truth. You actually expect it from politicians

Fair dinkum you should have heard the stuff I use to say about my bosses over the years. Not much different

Morrison only gave Labor opposition 1 day to review the AUKUS deal before it went through and was announced:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/biden-d ... 5al9d.html

Playing politics with national security.

I see Joe Hildebrand is in a right panic today. Bosses as News Corp have obviously thrown down the ultimatum, LNP wins election or else… it must be nice to live in that loony fantasy world that he occupies, far removed from the troubles us common folk have to deal with.

https://www.news.com.au/national/federa ... 51133ba2d0

There are some really wacky comments there, some of those people must be high as a kite when typing.

cpd wrote:

Morrison only gave Labor opposition 1 day to review the AUKUS deal before it went through and was announced:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/biden-d ... 5al9d.html

Playing politics with national security.

I see Joe Hildebrand is in a right panic today. Bosses as News Corp have obviously thrown down the ultimatum, LNP wins election or else… it must be nice to live in that loony fantasy world that he occupies, far removed from the troubles us common folk have to deal with.

https://www.news.com.au/national/federa ... 51133ba2d0

There are some really wacky comments there, some of those people must be high as a kite when typing.

Funnily enough, Hildebrand lives around the corner from me in an increasingly safe Labor seat. We occasionally have neighbourly conversations, but have never had the chance for a political conversation.

But it really is a non-argument that so many Lib moderates are now pushing. Blaming the voters for their own impotence.

Kent350787 wrote:

cpd wrote:

Morrison only gave Labor opposition 1 day to review the AUKUS deal before it went through and was announced:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/biden-d ... 5al9d.html

Playing politics with national security.

I see Joe Hildebrand is in a right panic today. Bosses as News Corp have obviously thrown down the ultimatum, LNP wins election or else… it must be nice to live in that loony fantasy world that he occupies, far removed from the troubles us common folk have to deal with.

https://www.news.com.au/national/federa ... 51133ba2d0

There are some really wacky comments there, some of those people must be high as a kite when typing.

Funnily enough, Hildebrand lives around the corner from me in an increasingly safe Labor seat. We occasionally have neighbourly conversations, but have never had the chance for a political conversation.

But it really is a non-argument that so many Lib moderates are now pushing. Blaming the voters for their own impotence.

The LNP, if they lose will have only themselves to blame for lurching so far into becoming a tea party / trump style operation rather than a traditional economically conservative / free market party. Whenever coal is under threat any notion of free market goes out the window.

cpd wrote:

Morrison only gave Labor opposition 1 day to review the AUKUS deal before it went through and was announced:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/biden-d ... 5al9d.html

Playing politics with national security.

Best decision Scomo made in defence he put Australia first politics second, I would have kept those cards close to my chest as well , certainly not playing politics it was to get the best capability we can, I certainly would not have trusted the ALP to keep it quite with Wong and Co

Cancelling the French boats with only a 5billion expenditure is pretty cheap in my book when you consider we would have less capability at 90Billion and counting with the French


https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/politi ... 5ak7g.html

A101 wrote:

cpd wrote:

Morrison only gave Labor opposition 1 day to review the AUKUS deal before it went through and was announced:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/biden-d ... 5al9d.html

Playing politics with national security.

Best decision Scomo made in defence he put Australia first politics second, I would have kept those cards close to my chest as well , certainly not playing politics it was to get the best capability we can, I certainly would not have trusted the ALP to keep it quite with Wong and Co

Cancelling the French boats with only a 5billion expenditure is pretty cheap in my book when you consider we would have less capability at 90Billion and counting with the French


https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/politi ... 5ak7g.html

What you think, and what reality is might be very different things.

Withholding important national security matters so you can gain a political benefit is the mark of a completely irresponsible and inept government.

What else is the coalition hiding?

And now it has a boat problem, Chinese boats. So much for our national security interests.

cpd wrote:

A101 wrote:

cpd wrote:

Morrison only gave Labor opposition 1 day to review the AUKUS deal before it went through and was announced:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/biden-d ... 5al9d.html

Playing politics with national security.

Best decision Scomo made in defence he put Australia first politics second, I would have kept those cards close to my chest as well , certainly not playing politics it was to get the best capability we can, I certainly would not have trusted the ALP to keep it quite with Wong and Co

Cancelling the French boats with only a 5billion expenditure is pretty cheap in my book when you consider we would have less capability at 90Billion and counting with the French


https://amp.brisbanetimes.com.au/politi ... 5ak7g.html

What you think, and what reality is might be very different things.

Everyone is entitled to their own point of view

cpd wrote:

Withholding important national security matters so you can gain a political benefit is the mark of a completely irresponsible and inept government.

Nope close hold, governments do not have to let them in on matters of national security

both side have done it over the years

cpd wrote:

What else is the coalition hiding?

I imagine there would be a couple of things, Defence can only release that information when authorized by the government, if they made a decision whilst in caretaker conventions Defence would then be obligated to brief the opposition

cpd wrote:

And now it has a boat problem, Chinese boats. So much for our national security interests.

No we do not have a problem, its just that the Chinese have given the government a boost to show whilst we are in the election process, its not the 1st time its been here wont be the last,

I'm surprised they did it now they spy on us and we spy on them its how the game is played

The sneaky-beaky Cold War adventures of Australia’s Oberon-class submarines

https://navalmatters.wordpress.com/2013 ... ubmarines/