Let's resurrect this in Non-Av.

JohanTally wrote:

The CDC plans to extend the Federal transportation mask mandate another 15 days. After the extension it would then expire May 3rd unless another extension is implemented. Looks like the day after Easter expiration was overly optimistic.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/13/politics ... index.html

This is ridiculous that it has to be posted in here. This is Civil Aviation related as it has to do with Civil Aviation. The fact that politics is discussed as a result of this decision is inevitable and shouldn’t result in it having to be moved. This subject is political at this point, but it also has a direct impact on those of us who work in the industry and are forced to enforce this mandate and those who are forced to comply with it in order to fly and conduct commerce throughout the country.

It was the flight attendants that were the ones who demanded the mask mandates to begin with. Now they complain about the stress and hardship they have in enforcing it. Maybe they and their union should have thought about that before pushing for it.

Even with reduced testing, case counts are again climbing in the U.S., so keeping the policy is a prudent move.

Mask, testing and vaccines are all part of a layered approach in protection against the virus.

This board isn't to be used to spread falsehoods about the pandemic. I've deleted multiple posts that were either trolling or just flat out wrong. Stay on topic.

LAXintl wrote:

Even with reduced testing, case counts are again climbing in the U.S., so keeping the policy is a prudent move.

Mask, testing and vaccines are all part of a layered approach in protection against the virus.

The mask mandate makes sense, but the PCR predeparture test is past its usefulness.

LAXintl wrote:

Even with reduced testing, case counts are again climbing in the U.S., so keeping the policy is a prudent move.

Mask, testing and vaccines are all part of a layered approach in protection against the virus.

There is now a huge discrepancy on how differing countries, and even states within countries have fared during the pandemic.
While counting deaths is not everything death rates also give an indication of the other disruptions being experienced especially when testing rates are now so variable. So whilst death rates do not cause the disruptions of covid illness absenteeism, it is the prevalence of covid transmission that causes both the absenteeism and for some unfortunately death.
Currently covid absenteeism is severely affecting air travel out of the UK in peak Easter season meaning some may not even make it to their Easter destination.

The discrepancy on how countries and states have faired, and are now actually fairing, is squarely on how well the multiple layers of protection available were deployed as the risks changed, as the pandemic progressed and actually changed with vaccine availability, new varients, and local changes in transmission rates, both up and down.
Vaccination has now became the single most important layer, whilst lockdowns have disappeared, except in China.

As Covid transmission is very largely airborne there will always be a place for masks in reducing transmission.

We of course can expect mandatory mask wearing to remain in very high risk settings such as operating theatres.
But mandatory mask wearing outdoors has now all but disappeared in the world.
There is a lot of evidence that transmission has occurred in passenger aircraft, even down to seat maps being produced showing where in relation to a single infected person, others who were then infected on were sitting on board.

Here, in NZ, our gathering size and gathering density limits were removed last midnight. Our border reopening to vaccinated tourists is well underway. Now open to Australians, and the bulk of the rest of the world tourists in just over a fortnight.
But masks on public transport and in most indoor settings, remain in the meantime until transmission rates from our recent peak subside further.

Masks are not now required in hospitality venues, evidently pashing on the dance floor with a mask on is not a great experience!!
Perhaps masks will even remain at current settings until after our winter flu season, as local resistance to flu and RSV may have declined due to isolation resulting from previous border controls, and simultaneous covid and flu is a potential problem.

Brick wrote:

It was the flight attendants that were the ones who demanded the mask mandates to begin with. Now they complain about the stress and hardship they have in enforcing it. Maybe they and their union should have thought about that before pushing for it.

Mmmmm no, pretty bad take. The unions probably expected - maybe hoped - the traveling public would generally exhibit mature adult behavior and not revert to 4 years old every time they are asked to mask. It's not a big ask - it's a piece of fabric for crying out loud.

Wearing a mask in a crowded plane or any crowded venue is not horrible like a few people make it out to be. It reduces risk and is easy to do.

Last time I was on a plane was the beginning of last October and all kinds of peoples noses were out including the FAs one FA I remember pulled it completely down to talk to pax.

Must have been a glitch in the software but these mask mandates have to stop at some point. Things are going way too long. We have to live with this now. Ridiculous.

tomaheath wrote:

Last time I was on a plane was the beginning of last October and all kinds of peoples noses were out including the FAs one FA I remember pulled it completely down to talk to pax.

My last flights, the FAs wore the masks perfectly. Half the passengers didn't cover noses. (I did).

Masks are effective
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm




Note: I have a problem calling N95/KN95 a respirator. I'm respirator trained/certified and in no way is a N95 1% as good as my respirator; they're just a lot more comfortable. Not to mention more economical (filter replacement in a true respirator). In no way would some work we do be safe with a N95.

I'm certain the mask rules are slowing the spread. Passengers complained loud on today's flight when the latest extension hit the news (that happened mid-flight for myself):
https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/13/2302 ... extend-cdc

To think, the main purpose of the mask is source control (stop the virus coming out from a person), not so much to protect the person:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17

My ears hurt by the end of the flight, but all the data shows masks work.
I cannot tell if the US cases are starting to turn up or remaining flat (data through 4/12 is what is available as I type):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Just be kind to the staff. They don't make the rules.

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Last time I was on a plane was the beginning of last October and all kinds of peoples noses were out including the FAs one FA I remember pulled it completely down to talk to pax.

My last flights, the FAs wore the masks perfectly. Half the passengers didn't cover noses. (I did).

Masks are effective
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm




Note: I have a problem calling N95/KN95 a respirator. I'm respirator trained/certified and in no way is a N95 1% as good as my respirator; they're just a lot more comfortable. Not to mention more economical (filter replacement in a true respirator). In no way would some work we do be safe with a N95.

I'm certain the mask rules are slowing the spread. Passengers complained loud on today's flight when the latest extension hit the news (that happened mid-flight for myself):
https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/13/2302 ... extend-cdc

To think, the main purpose of the mask is source control (stop the virus coming out from a person), not so much to protect the person:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17

My ears hurt by the end of the flight, but all the data shows masks work.
I cannot tell if the US cases are starting to turn up or remaining flat (data through 4/12 is what is available as I type):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Just be kind to the staff. They don't make the rules.

Lightsaber

I’m hoping another wave is not starting back up either but some of the wastewater reports are starting to show a trend going up in some areas of the US.

I agree the staff don’t deserve a lot of the treatment they are getting.

lightsaber wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Last time I was on a plane was the beginning of last October and all kinds of peoples noses were out including the FAs one FA I remember pulled it completely down to talk to pax.

My last flights, the FAs wore the masks perfectly. Half the passengers didn't cover noses. (I did).

Masks are effective
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm




Note: I have a problem calling N95/KN95 a respirator. I'm respirator trained/certified and in no way is a N95 1% as good as my respirator; they're just a lot more comfortable. Not to mention more economical (filter replacement in a true respirator). In no way would some work we do be safe with a N95.

I'm certain the mask rules are slowing the spread. Passengers complained loud on today's flight when the latest extension hit the news (that happened mid-flight for myself):
https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/13/2302 ... extend-cdc

To think, the main purpose of the mask is source control (stop the virus coming out from a person), not so much to protect the person:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17

My ears hurt by the end of the flight, but all the data shows masks work.
I cannot tell if the US cases are starting to turn up or remaining flat (data through 4/12 is what is available as I type):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Just be kind to the staff. They don't make the rules.

Lightsaber

I should have added this to the first reply. I agree 100% with you about masks.

I have a lot of friends in the medical fields. Two in particular are really good friends and both have spent the majority of the last 2 years in a COVID-19 ICU wing as a Doctor and Nurse. They both wear N95's and a surgical mask over it and have been in direct contact with patients and neither have gotten anything.

The explanation they gave me about paper masks, surgical mask and certain cloth masks is the following.
If sick person A does not have a mask and gets in close contact with non sick person B whom has a mask on they will probably be exposed but with a reduced amount of the virus.

Now if sick person A has a mask and gets close to non sick person B whom also has a mask on, there a smaller chance of the virus getting thru to person B but if it does it will be more than likely mild.

The goal is to keep the amount of exposure low and a milder case of COVID-19 not deep in the lungs is more treatable than a high dose of COVID-19 that goes deep in the lungs.

NLINK wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Last time I was on a plane was the beginning of last October and all kinds of peoples noses were out including the FAs one FA I remember pulled it completely down to talk to pax.

My last flights, the FAs wore the masks perfectly. Half the passengers didn't cover noses. (I did).

Masks are effective
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm




Note: I have a problem calling N95/KN95 a respirator. I'm respirator trained/certified and in no way is a N95 1% as good as my respirator; they're just a lot more comfortable. Not to mention more economical (filter replacement in a true respirator). In no way would some work we do be safe with a N95.

I'm certain the mask rules are slowing the spread. Passengers complained loud on today's flight when the latest extension hit the news (that happened mid-flight for myself):
https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/13/2302 ... extend-cdc

To think, the main purpose of the mask is source control (stop the virus coming out from a person), not so much to protect the person:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17

My ears hurt by the end of the flight, but all the data shows masks work.
I cannot tell if the US cases are starting to turn up or remaining flat (data through 4/12 is what is available as I type):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Just be kind to the staff. They don't make the rules.

Lightsaber

I should have added this to the first reply. I agree 100% with you about masks.

I have a lot of friends in the medical fields. Two in particular are really good friends and both have spent the majority of the last 2 years in a COVID-19 ICU wing as a Doctor and Nurse. They both wear N95's and a surgical mask over it and have been in direct contact with patients and neither have gotten anything.

The explanation they gave me about paper masks, surgical mask and certain cloth masks is the following.
If sick person A does not have a mask and gets in close contact with non sick person B whom has a mask on they will probably be exposed but with a reduced amount of the virus.

Now if sick person A has a mask and gets close to non sick person B whom also has a mask on, there a smaller chance of the virus getting thru to person B but if it does it will be more than likely mild.

The goal is to keep the amount of exposure low and a milder case of COVID-19 not deep in the lungs is more treatable than a high dose of COVID-19 that goes deep in the lungs.

Precisely why comments like 'this is ridiculous' are not based in reality.

Aaron747 wrote:

NLINK wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My last flights, the FAs wore the masks perfectly. Half the passengers didn't cover noses. (I did).

Masks are effective
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm




Note: I have a problem calling N95/KN95 a respirator. I'm respirator trained/certified and in no way is a N95 1% as good as my respirator; they're just a lot more comfortable. Not to mention more economical (filter replacement in a true respirator). In no way would some work we do be safe with a N95.

I'm certain the mask rules are slowing the spread. Passengers complained loud on today's flight when the latest extension hit the news (that happened mid-flight for myself):
https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/13/2302 ... extend-cdc

To think, the main purpose of the mask is source control (stop the virus coming out from a person), not so much to protect the person:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17

My ears hurt by the end of the flight, but all the data shows masks work.
I cannot tell if the US cases are starting to turn up or remaining flat (data through 4/12 is what is available as I type):
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

Just be kind to the staff. They don't make the rules.

Lightsaber

I should have added this to the first reply. I agree 100% with you about masks.

I have a lot of friends in the medical fields. Two in particular are really good friends and both have spent the majority of the last 2 years in a COVID-19 ICU wing as a Doctor and Nurse. They both wear N95's and a surgical mask over it and have been in direct contact with patients and neither have gotten anything.

The explanation they gave me about paper masks, surgical mask and certain cloth masks is the following.
If sick person A does not have a mask and gets in close contact with non sick person B whom has a mask on they will probably be exposed but with a reduced amount of the virus.

Now if sick person A has a mask and gets close to non sick person B whom also has a mask on, there a smaller chance of the virus getting thru to person B but if it does it will be more than likely mild.

The goal is to keep the amount of exposure low and a milder case of COVID-19 not deep in the lungs is more treatable than a high dose of COVID-19 that goes deep in the lungs.

Precisely why comments like 'this is ridiculous' are not based in reality.

The reality is tho that a lot of people are not wearing them properly. Like mentioned above if a lot of the pax aren’t wearing them properly than is it still worth the mandate? My employer tried the mask things I bet 75% had a nose sticking out very quickly the masks went away a few still wore them for a while. Now they ask you to wear one if your sick but it’s at the individual employees discretion.

tomaheath wrote:

Now they ask you to wear one if your sick but it’s at the individual employees discretion.

Wait, what? Are you seriously telling us that employees are expected show up for work whilst being sick, and that even tough the company recommends wearing a mask in such situations, it’s up to the employee to decide if they wish to do so or not?

If that’s the case, that’s pure madness. Run, run as fast as you can, away from that place and never look back.

Where I’m from it’s very simple: If you’re sick, you call in sick and stay at home. We don’t want you around working at reduced capacity, possibly infecting your colleagues, and likely prolonging (or even worsening) your condition. Stay home, take care of yourself, and come back when you’re well again.

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

NLINK wrote:

I should have added this to the first reply. I agree 100% with you about masks.

I have a lot of friends in the medical fields. Two in particular are really good friends and both have spent the majority of the last 2 years in a COVID-19 ICU wing as a Doctor and Nurse. They both wear N95's and a surgical mask over it and have been in direct contact with patients and neither have gotten anything.

The explanation they gave me about paper masks, surgical mask and certain cloth masks is the following.
If sick person A does not have a mask and gets in close contact with non sick person B whom has a mask on they will probably be exposed but with a reduced amount of the virus.

Now if sick person A has a mask and gets close to non sick person B whom also has a mask on, there a smaller chance of the virus getting thru to person B but if it does it will be more than likely mild.

The goal is to keep the amount of exposure low and a milder case of COVID-19 not deep in the lungs is more treatable than a high dose of COVID-19 that goes deep in the lungs.

Precisely why comments like 'this is ridiculous' are not based in reality.

The reality is tho that a lot of people are not wearing them properly. Like mentioned above if a lot of the pax aren’t wearing them properly than is it still worth the mandate? My employer tried the mask things I bet 75% had a nose sticking out very quickly the masks went away a few still wore them for a while. Now they ask you to wear one if your sick but it’s at the individual employees discretion.

I work in HR and 1. people walking around with masks worn improperly didn't last 1 month in my organization, and 2. not every employer has ability to implement and maintain policy. That doesn't make the policy itself unwise or poor.

The reality of travel/restaurant mandates is: 1. frontline staff have a lot of opportunities to pass shit to people even if healthy 2. customers are in close proximity to each other 3. mitigation is proven to work well if everyone observes a few simple practices

We don't tell kids 'oh sure, you can move bedtime to 12 because you're going to scream all over the house!' and we sure as hell don't want to set the same precedent for adults. Of course it would have been easy to avoid all this mask unpleasantness with a vaccine mandate, but in this political environment you'd have even more madness as a result - probably terrorism too.

B777LRF wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Now they ask you to wear one if your sick but it’s at the individual employees discretion.

Wait, what? Are you seriously telling us that employees are expected show up for work whilst being sick, and that even tough the company recommends wearing a mask in such situations, it’s up to the employee to decide if they wish to do so or not?

If that’s the case, that’s pure madness. Run, run as fast as you can, away from that place and never look back.

Where I’m from it’s very simple: If you’re sick, you call in sick and stay at home. We don’t want you around working at reduced capacity, possibly infecting your colleagues, and likely prolonging (or even worsening) your condition. Stay home, take care of yourself, and come back when you’re well again.

Yes that is the policy here.

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Precisely why comments like 'this is ridiculous' are not based in reality.

The reality is tho that a lot of people are not wearing them properly. Like mentioned above if a lot of the pax aren’t wearing them properly than is it still worth the mandate? My employer tried the mask things I bet 75% had a nose sticking out very quickly the masks went away a few still wore them for a while. Now they ask you to wear one if your sick but it’s at the individual employees discretion.

I work in HR and 1. people walking around with masks worn improperly didn't last 1 month in my organization, and 2. not every employer has ability to implement and maintain policy. That doesn't make the policy itself unwise or poor.

The reality of travel/restaurant mandates is: 1. frontline staff have a lot of opportunities to pass shit to people even if healthy 2. customers are in close proximity to each other 3. mitigation is proven to work well if everyone observes a few simple practices

We don't tell kids 'oh sure, you can move bedtime to 12 because you're going to scream all over the house!' and we sure as hell don't want to set the same precedent for adults. Of course it would have been easy to avoid all this mask unpleasantness with a vaccine mandate, but in this political environment you'd have even more madness as a result - probably terrorism too.

That’s kinda my point I’m not saying the mask do or don’t work what I’m say is that a lot of people are not following the rule to wear one so are these mandates justified?

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

The reality is tho that a lot of people are not wearing them properly. Like mentioned above if a lot of the pax aren’t wearing them properly than is it still worth the mandate? My employer tried the mask things I bet 75% had a nose sticking out very quickly the masks went away a few still wore them for a while. Now they ask you to wear one if your sick but it’s at the individual employees discretion.

I work in HR and 1. people walking around with masks worn improperly didn't last 1 month in my organization, and 2. not every employer has ability to implement and maintain policy. That doesn't make the policy itself unwise or poor.

The reality of travel/restaurant mandates is: 1. frontline staff have a lot of opportunities to pass shit to people even if healthy 2. customers are in close proximity to each other 3. mitigation is proven to work well if everyone observes a few simple practices

We don't tell kids 'oh sure, you can move bedtime to 12 because you're going to scream all over the house!' and we sure as hell don't want to set the same precedent for adults. Of course it would have been easy to avoid all this mask unpleasantness with a vaccine mandate, but in this political environment you'd have even more madness as a result - probably terrorism too.

That’s kinda my point I’m not saying the mask do or don’t work what I’m say is that a lot of people are not following the rule to wear one so are these mandates justified?

The mandates are justified by the metric of public health need. It's society's fault people are too immature and emotionally needy to follow simple rules. It's a ******* piece of fabric. That was essentially our message as a company (minus cursing), and that's why people started wearing masks properly within a month.

Your question of justification goes back to my childhood analogy - is good parenting/early bedtime no longer justified because a kid can't shut up?

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

I work in HR and 1. people walking around with masks worn improperly didn't last 1 month in my organization, and 2. not every employer has ability to implement and maintain policy. That doesn't make the policy itself unwise or poor.

The reality of travel/restaurant mandates is: 1. frontline staff have a lot of opportunities to pass shit to people even if healthy 2. customers are in close proximity to each other 3. mitigation is proven to work well if everyone observes a few simple practices

We don't tell kids 'oh sure, you can move bedtime to 12 because you're going to scream all over the house!' and we sure as hell don't want to set the same precedent for adults. Of course it would have been easy to avoid all this mask unpleasantness with a vaccine mandate, but in this political environment you'd have even more madness as a result - probably terrorism too.

That’s kinda my point I’m not saying the mask do or don’t work what I’m say is that a lot of people are not following the rule to wear one so are these mandates justified?

The mandates are justified by the metric of public health need. It's society's fault people are too immature and emotionally needy to follow simple rules. It's a ******* piece of fabric. That was essentially our message as a company (minus cursing), and that's why people started wearing masks properly within a month.

Your question of justification goes back to my childhood analogy - is good parenting/early bedtime no longer justified because a kid can't shut up?

How do you make society follow the mask rule? I’ve been in countless places where a mask sign was on the door and plenty of people had no masks on. Same with airports at least land side I’ve seen all kinds of people with no masks or not on properly. Like I mentioned before my work tried to get people to wear them and properly a lot didn’t follow so in my opinion they just gave up on the idea.
I agree everyone should be sleeping by 10pm I know I can’t make it past that.

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

That’s kinda my point I’m not saying the mask do or don’t work what I’m say is that a lot of people are not following the rule to wear one so are these mandates justified?

The mandates are justified by the metric of public health need. It's society's fault people are too immature and emotionally needy to follow simple rules. It's a ******* piece of fabric. That was essentially our message as a company (minus cursing), and that's why people started wearing masks properly within a month.

Your question of justification goes back to my childhood analogy - is good parenting/early bedtime no longer justified because a kid can't shut up?

How do you make society follow the mask rule? I’ve been in countless places where a mask sign was on the door and plenty of people had no masks on. Same with airports at least land side I’ve seen all kinds of people with no masks or not on properly. Like I mentioned before my work tried to get people to wear them and properly a lot didn’t follow so in my opinion they just gave up on the idea.
I agree everyone should be sleeping by 10pm I know I can’t make it past that.

I don't know - it's much easier in a workplace. One thing we really found out these last two years is how damned immature other adults are.

c933103 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

I don't know - it's much easier in a workplace. One thing we really found out these last two years is how damned immature other adults are.

CDC can make recommendations amd regulations that are solely based on public health stand point, but in cases such regulations get to the point where it interfere with other parts of regular society functioning, shouldn't other authorities also be involved in the decision making process to make sure a balance is achieved?

The US is probably too big and diverse for that to work well.

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

The mandates are justified by the metric of public health need. It's society's fault people are too immature and emotionally needy to follow simple rules. It's a ******* piece of fabric. That was essentially our message as a company (minus cursing), and that's why people started wearing masks properly within a month.

Your question of justification goes back to my childhood analogy - is good parenting/early bedtime no longer justified because a kid can't shut up?

How do you make society follow the mask rule? I’ve been in countless places where a mask sign was on the door and plenty of people had no masks on. Same with airports at least land side I’ve seen all kinds of people with no masks or not on properly. Like I mentioned before my work tried to get people to wear them and properly a lot didn’t follow so in my opinion they just gave up on the idea.
I agree everyone should be sleeping by 10pm I know I can’t make it past that.

I don't know - it's much easier in a workplace. One thing we really found out these last two years is how damned immature other adults are.

We've also learned how authoritarian many are with little disregard for others, their mental health, livelihoods, and how mob rule works.

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

The mandates are justified by the metric of public health need. It's society's fault people are too immature and emotionally needy to follow simple rules. It's a ******* piece of fabric. That was essentially our message as a company (minus cursing), and that's why people started wearing masks properly within a month.

Your question of justification goes back to my childhood analogy - is good parenting/early bedtime no longer justified because a kid can't shut up?

How do you make society follow the mask rule? I’ve been in countless places where a mask sign was on the door and plenty of people had no masks on. Same with airports at least land side I’ve seen all kinds of people with no masks or not on properly. Like I mentioned before my work tried to get people to wear them and properly a lot didn’t follow so in my opinion they just gave up on the idea.
I agree everyone should be sleeping by 10pm I know I can’t make it past that.

I don't know - it's much easier in a workplace. One thing we really found out these last two years is how damned immature other adults are.

Agree. Lots are immature.

Agreed. The so-called Freedom Convoy in Ottawa was a great example of mob rule and demonstrated a total disregard for the livelihoods and mental health of the community they illegally occupied for weeks on end with incessant honking and blocked streets.

A federal judge has struck down the Biden's extension of the mask mandate that was originally set to expire today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ravel.html

Brick wrote:

A federal judge has struck down the Biden's extension of the mask mandate that was originally set to expire today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ravel.html

I wonder if the DOJ will let it slide, or if they will let it go into effect. Most places in Europe are still trending down, and the US hasn't seen much of an uptick in cases. Especially compared to how quickly Omicron took over.

casinterest wrote:

Brick wrote:

A federal judge has struck down the Biden's extension of the mask mandate that was originally set to expire today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ravel.html

I wonder if the DOJ will let it slide, or if they will let it go into effect. Most places in Europe are still trending down, and the US hasn't seen much of an uptick in cases. Especially compared to how quickly Omicron took over.

I simply don't get why the easiest and least-disruptive preventative measure has been subject to all this legal scrutiny, when these international pre-departure testing requirements are still in place.

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Brick wrote:

A federal judge has struck down the Biden's extension of the mask mandate that was originally set to expire today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ravel.html

I wonder if the DOJ will let it slide, or if they will let it go into effect. Most places in Europe are still trending down, and the US hasn't seen much of an uptick in cases. Especially compared to how quickly Omicron took over.

I simply don't get why the easiest and least-disruptive preventative measure has been subject to all this legal scrutiny, when these international pre-departure testing requirements are still in place.

The international ones are under the federal jurisdiction, and are also a result of end countries rules.

Honestly, I just don't get the Americans' aversion towards wearing a face mask. I really don't.

After two years wearing the face mask is second nature to me now. And here in Malaysia, where the temperatures fluctuates between hot and bloody hot, I find the discomfort from wearing masks to be quite minimal.

Remember, the Virus takes a break whenever you sit down to eat at a restaurant, or onboard an airplane!

slider wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

How do you make society follow the mask rule? I’ve been in countless places where a mask sign was on the door and plenty of people had no masks on. Same with airports at least land side I’ve seen all kinds of people with no masks or not on properly. Like I mentioned before my work tried to get people to wear them and properly a lot didn’t follow so in my opinion they just gave up on the idea.
I agree everyone should be sleeping by 10pm I know I can’t make it past that.

I don't know - it's much easier in a workplace. One thing we really found out these last two years is how damned immature other adults are.

We've also learned how authoritarian many are with little disregard for others, their mental health, livelihoods, and how mob rule works.

Living in society has trade-offs, no? If people don't want to be part of a health system with capacity limitations, they can live off the grid and treat themselves. Always an option.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Honestly, I just don't get the Americans' aversion towards wearing a face mask. I really don't.

After two years wearing the face mask is second nature to me now. And here in Malaysia, where the temperatures fluctuates between hot and bloody hot, I find the discomfort from wearing masks to be quite minimal.

Because mental health, freedom, something something...your guess is as good as mine.

I can confirm, just boarded a plane and an announcement was made that masks are no longer required. Most passengers are no longer wearing it.

Flying United fyi. Domestic flight.

Aaron747 wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Honestly, I just don't get the Americans' aversion towards wearing a face mask. I really don't.

After two years wearing the face mask is second nature to me now. And here in Malaysia, where the temperatures fluctuates between hot and bloody hot, I find the discomfort from wearing masks to be quite minimal.

Because mental health, freedom, something something...your guess is as good as mine.

Mental health,freedom,comfort, personal preference.

PPVRA wrote:

I can confirm, just boarded a plane and an announcement was made that masks are no longer required. Most passengers are no longer wearing it.

Flying United fyi. Domestic flight.

Fantastic news.

casinterest wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

I wonder if the DOJ will let it slide, or if they will let it go into effect. Most places in Europe are still trending down, and the US hasn't seen much of an uptick in cases. Especially compared to how quickly Omicron took over.

I simply don't get why the easiest and least-disruptive preventative measure has been subject to all this legal scrutiny, when these international pre-departure testing requirements are still in place.

The international ones are under the federal jurisdiction, and are also a result of end countries rules.

Then why should one judge in Florida strike be able to shut down the mandate on the light rail in Seattle?

Another aspect of our "fine" federalist system...

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

I simply don't get why the easiest and least-disruptive preventative measure has been subject to all this legal scrutiny, when these international pre-departure testing requirements are still in place.

The international ones are under the federal jurisdiction, and are also a result of end countries rules.

Then why should one judge in Florida strike be able to shut down the mandate on the light rail in Seattle?

Another aspect of our "fine" federalist system...

Because they are a federal judge.

tomaheath wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

casinterest wrote:

The international ones are under the federal jurisdiction, and are also a result of end countries rules.

Then why should one judge in Florida strike be able to shut down the mandate on the light rail in Seattle?

Another aspect of our "fine" federalist system...

Because they are a federal judge.

Okay... so why didn't they go after PCR test requirement instead? The testing is way more of a nuisance/disruption than wearing a piece of paper or cloth over your face.

Edit - many health experts are beginning to agree:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2 ... ent-covid/

SEAorPWM wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

Then why should one judge in Florida strike be able to shut down the mandate on the light rail in Seattle?

Another aspect of our "fine" federalist system...

Because they are a federal judge.

Okay... so why didn't they go after PCR test requirement instead? The testing is way more of a nuisance/disruption than wearing a piece of paper or cloth over your face.

You don’t need a PCR test to fly domestically, ride on a train or bus.

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

Honestly, I just don't get the Americans' aversion towards wearing a face mask. I really don't.

After two years wearing the face mask is second nature to me now. And here in Malaysia, where the temperatures fluctuates between hot and bloody hot, I find the discomfort from wearing masks to be quite minimal.

Because mental health, freedom, something something...your guess is as good as mine.

Mental health,freedom,comfort, personal preference.

Nothing to do with freedom - it’s a piece of cloth. You don’t have ‘freedom’ to enter most places of business shirtless and definitely no sitting down without pants/underpants.

tomaheath wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Because they are a federal judge.

Okay... so why didn't they go after PCR test requirement instead? The testing is way more of a nuisance/disruption than wearing a piece of paper or cloth over your face.

You don’t need a PCR test to fly domestically, ride on a train or bus.

I don't think I'm being clear.

My question is this: if this judge has jurisdiction *at the national/federal level*, then why couldn't she have gone after the border testing requirements instead? I thought the CDC also was involved with that as well?

SEAorPWM wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

SEAorPWM wrote:

Okay... so why didn't they go after PCR test requirement instead? The testing is way more of a nuisance/disruption than wearing a piece of paper or cloth over your face.

You don’t need a PCR test to fly domestically, ride on a train or bus.

I don't think I'm being clear.

My question is this: if this judge has jurisdiction *at the national/federal level*, then why couldn't she have gone after the border testing requirements instead? I thought the CDC also was involved with that as well?

I don’t know the answer to your question but I think someone should especially after reading the link that you provided.

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Because mental health, freedom, something something...your guess is as good as mine.

Mental health,freedom,comfort, personal preference.

Nothing to do with freedom - it’s a piece of cloth. You don’t have ‘freedom’ to enter most places of business shirtless and definitely no sitting down without pants/underpants.

Well what’s nice now is that you can wear a mask and I don’t have to wear one everyone is happy.

tomaheath wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

tomaheath wrote:

Mental health,freedom,comfort, personal preference.

Nothing to do with freedom - it’s a piece of cloth. You don’t have ‘freedom’ to enter most places of business shirtless and definitely no sitting down without pants/underpants.

Well what’s nice now is that you can wear a mask and I don’t have to wear one everyone is happy.

I don’t care one way or the other - I just think what medical experts recommend to preserve healthcare capacity is best.