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c933103
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:21 pm

N1120A wrote:
When will people learn that Musk is as much of a silver spoon, fail up piece of garbage as Trump?

In case Musk buy out the entire Twitter, then the entire platform will literally become his own private property. Whether it fail or not no longer matter to its former shareholders since they have already received return of their investment through the privatization process.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:29 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
SpaceX/Starlink has been more successful than Boeing in the last decade, true or false?

Well Boeing stock is up 58% over that time, market cap in April 2012 was ~$57B and is now ~$105B. Of course we don't know SpaceX open market value but it is estimated to be around $100B. So they are both worth the same.

Boeing is a diversified company and SpaceX is solely focused on space launch with a satellite network established and developing based on that capability. It will be interesting to see where it goes from there. Regardless of making it to Mars, SpaceX is very valuable but if it's Mars efforts don't succeed that will directly impact that value of the company.

It will be interesting to see where things go from here. One big thing will be as the tech SpaceX has brought to market becomes more spread within the industry. As Boeing and Lockheed etc hire ex-SpaceX people and develop their own systems. But they are well latched to the teat of government programs and funding so will need to make a conscious choice to change that. Something public companies/their share holders are loathe to do.

Honestly, both companies have been "successful" over the past decade. And only time will tell how each do. To ascribe "winner" to either now would be is short sighted and ill-advised.

Tugg
 
flyguy89
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:33 pm

luckyone wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
For democracy to survive, we need more content moderation, not less.


I'd ask you and Max Boot the same question...what is the difference between "censorship" and "content moderation?"

Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.
 
luckyone
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:36 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

I'd ask you and Max Boot the same question...what is the difference between "censorship" and "content moderation?"

Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

If it's related to law enforcement then I see no problem. But if it's related to "platform X doesn't moderate opinion the way I like," suck it up buttercup. It's an open marketplace, for every supposed liberal Twitter, or CNN, there's Newmaxx, OAN, and Rush Limbaugh, etc the likes of which never moderated anything nor were they coerced to do so.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:45 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

I'd ask you and Max Boot the same question...what is the difference between "censorship" and "content moderation?"

Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

You mean a government might attempt to take coercive/punitive legislative action against a company if it does something the majority party doesn't like?

Tugg
 
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casinterest
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:48 pm

Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

You mean a government might attempt to take coercive/punitive legislative action against a company if it does something the majority party doesn't like?

Tugg



How was it the Government. Twitter responded to User complaints. Facebook responded to User Complaints.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:08 pm

And the deal is struck!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium
Billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk agreed to buy Twitter Inc. for $44 billion, using one of the biggest leveraged buyout deals in history to take private a 16-year-old social networking platform [...]
Investors will receive $54.20 for each Twitter share they own, the company said in a statement Monday. [...]


Congrats, this will be an interesting this see progress. The whole problem for Twitter has been how to make money, how to monetize what it is and does. Now it does not have that pressure.

And no, I am certain Mr. Musk and his partners are NOT interested in throwing away the money they just invested. They will need to be sure to maintain and hopefully improve its product and presence online. And most importantly keep it's place in the public conversation.

I will be curious to see if someone tries to move its headquarters and where its employees operate out of.

Tugg
 
Newark727
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:22 pm

This is the dumbest goddamn thing
 
flyguy89
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:38 pm

Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

You mean a government might attempt to take coercive/punitive legislative action against a company if it does something the majority party doesn't like?

Tugg

Shocked I tell you, SHOCKED.

Tugger wrote:
And the deal is struck!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nd=premium
Billionaire entrepreneur Elon Musk agreed to buy Twitter Inc. for $44 billion, using one of the biggest leveraged buyout deals in history to take private a 16-year-old social networking platform [...]
Investors will receive $54.20 for each Twitter share they own, the company said in a statement Monday. [...]


Congrats, this will be an interesting this see progress. The whole problem for Twitter has been how to make money, how to monetize what it is and does. Now it does not have that pressure.

And no, I am certain Mr. Musk and his partners are NOT interested in throwing away the money they just invested. They will need to be sure to maintain and hopefully improve its product and presence online. And most importantly keep it's place in the public conversation.

I will be curious to see if someone tries to move its headquarters and where its employees operate out of.

Tugg

I am so here for it. I’m rooting neither for nor against Elon, but Twitter is an absolute dumpster fire so the bar for a better outcome is set pretty low IMO.
Last edited by flyguy89 on Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:38 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
I am so here for it. I’m rooting neither for nor against Elon, but Twitter is an absolute dumpster fire so the bar for a better outcome is set pretty low IMO.

The key challenge I see for Mr. Musk is the fact that Twitter is NOT an engineering challenge, it is something entirely different. And from what I can tell the requirements of administering such a platform are at odds with how he views expression as an individual vs running a business.

This is a business. Not a "freedom of speech" thing. Freedom of speech at a company has basically never equated to success and this had been proven many times over with the large number of failed online discussion boards that allowed the conversations to get out of hand and not be conducive to a large and diverse group of people using them without annoying them into not using them.

There is no sleeping on the line or improving processes and manufacturing efficiencies here. No "fail fast" ability. This is a mostly mature product with an established presence and a sitting workforce in place. This is a VERY different situation for Mr. Musk.

He is the one that will have to change, as much as anyone or anything else, if he is to succeed and take Twitter to higher heights.

I think he will be mostly hands off, except for making a show of moving the company out of California.

Honestly, I see a dumpster fire and irrelevance in Twitter's future if some of what I see in Mr. Musk style is applied to Twitter.

But if he puts in place a strong process to weed out useless elements and tweets etc. he might be able to do something. Now... the question as to how he monetizes the platform to make it more valuable someday? I don't know how or what he can do for that.

Tugg
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:08 pm

Elon Musk has officially purchased Twitter for $54.20 per share, coming out to $44 billiion total. Yahoo Finance reporter Dan Howley breaks down all the details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fftWclFw31U
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:21 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
FlapOperator wrote:

I'd ask you and Max Boot the same question...what is the difference between "censorship" and "content moderation?"

Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

Government coercing? It's mostly advertisement revenue "coercing". You can allow free reign and FrEe sPeeCh and wind up with a nazi pedophile sewer like 4Chan, which will attract precisely zero advertising spend. Or you can moderate the worst of the content out and have brands that are willing to advertise on your platform.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:09 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Private ownership vs public mandate would be the simplest way I view that. Private entities are free to moderate their platforms in whatever way they choose. Censorship is a government entity dictating what may and may not be said in either a public or private forum.

The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

Government coercing? It's mostly advertisement revenue "coercing". You can allow free reign and FrEe sPeeCh and wind up with a nazi pedophile sewer like 4Chan, which will attract precisely zero advertising spend. Or you can moderate the worst of the content out and have brands that are willing to advertise on your platform.

If it were only advertisers, governments wouldn’t be tripping over themselves for more and more content moderation to “safeguard democracy.”
 
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Tugger
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:21 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

Government coercing? It's mostly advertisement revenue "coercing". You can allow free reign and FrEe sPeeCh and wind up with a nazi pedophile sewer like 4Chan, which will attract precisely zero advertising spend. Or you can moderate the worst of the content out and have brands that are willing to advertise on your platform.

If it were only advertisers, governments wouldn’t be tripping over themselves for more and more content moderation to “safeguard democracy.”

Which governments are doing this? What policies in particular are being implemented to impose content moderation? Just want to have a basis to review and understand where you are coming from.

Tugg
 
flyguy89
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:50 pm

Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Government coercing? It's mostly advertisement revenue "coercing". You can allow free reign and FrEe sPeeCh and wind up with a nazi pedophile sewer like 4Chan, which will attract precisely zero advertising spend. Or you can moderate the worst of the content out and have brands that are willing to advertise on your platform.

If it were only advertisers, governments wouldn’t be tripping over themselves for more and more content moderation to “safeguard democracy.”

Which governments are doing this? What policies in particular are being implemented to impose content moderation? Just want to have a basis to review and understand where you are coming from.

Tugg

The below provides a pretty good overview of the global landscape:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank ... world/amp/

Out of the EU:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/tech ... a-law.html

Trump-era attempts at interfering with content moderation policies at private companies:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/washington ... be92fc76d7
 
PPVRA
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:23 am

There’s no doubt in me Elon will moderate content. But the more interesting thing is how he plans to “unlock twitter’s potential”.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:51 am

PPVRA wrote:
There’s no doubt in me Elon will moderate content. But the more interesting thing is how he plans to “unlock twitter’s potential”.



I think Elon looks at it as an important communications tool platform. Some content is way out there, but there are some real gems in terms of sports, event reporting, and engineering notifications.

He will have to moderate it. There are far too many people looking to destroy message boards.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:20 am

casinterest wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
There’s no doubt in me Elon will moderate content. But the more interesting thing is how he plans to “unlock twitter’s potential”.



I think Elon looks at it as an important communications tool platform. Some content is way out there, but there are some real gems in terms of sports, event reporting, and engineering notifications.

He will have to moderate it. There are far too many people looking to destroy message boards.

OK, but how does any of that make any money?
Moderation was entirely for the purpose of making the platform attractive and enjoyable for users to use. Well profitable users. To prevent it from becoming the mess (and "truth-fest" :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ) that some desire it to become.

But Mr. Musk no longer has the same interests in that as he did before he owned it.

How do you monetize Twitter? How does it make money? Capture users location when they use the app? A "Pro" account option for businesses? Ad's attached to and below every tweet or that you view before reading? Links embedded in tweets, advertisers buying words that appear with an underline?

How is Musk going to make Twitter more valuable as a product, as a thing on the internet?

News and information is one thing, but everyone depends on outside dollars, aka advertising or selling user information.

The board wasn't stupid or trapped, this isn't about about content moderation, for Twitter the past few years has been, and today's sale is ALL about paying back investors. Now it is on the new owners shoulders to do what the public company could never do at a proper scale. And the good thing about taking it private is that the new owners can mostly do what they want without the investor panic and lawsuits.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:20 am

casinterest wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
There’s no doubt in me Elon will moderate content. But the more interesting thing is how he plans to “unlock twitter’s potential”.



I think Elon looks at it as an important communications tool platform. Some content is way out there, but there are some real gems in terms of sports, event reporting, and engineering notifications.

He will have to moderate it. There are far too many people looking to destroy message boards.


You mean the bots from both political parties that flood comment sections and social media?

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronaviru ... ikely-bots

Even on this site you get the same talking points made up by some think tank. So it does not surprise me, I even expect it when I come to the non-Aviation side. But when I see the same talking points on the evening news, then I worry.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:38 am

Musk is doing this for the money. Likely he will relocate the Executive HQ and many operations to no state income tax and rich persons paradise of Texas. Many employees will get cuts in pay, benefits and perks. Likely the only censorship will be to comply with the laws of the various countries Twitter is available in. The best hope is that corporate advertisers will pull advertising on Twitter to avoid conflicts with racists, sexists, anti-GLTBQ's and other haters.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:06 am

ltbewr wrote:
Musk is doing this for the money. Likely he will relocate the Executive HQ and many operations to no state income tax and rich persons paradise of Texas. Many employees will get cuts in pay, benefits and perks. Likely the only censorship will be to comply with the laws of the various countries Twitter is available in. The best hope is that corporate advertisers will pull advertising on Twitter to avoid conflicts with racists, sexists, anti-GLTBQ's and other haters.

I doubt a lot of that will fly with the current employee base. There is no growth to promise nor anything "new" to be part of. This is a just a job once the purchase is made and people cash out. If not done wisely it will be a cluster. and the site will suffer.

As to any relocation, I would expect either Virginia or Arizona, with Florida an option. I do not think that Texas would be a destination because Tesla and SpaceX are already facing hiring struggles (yes I realize they are different industries). And Musk is aware enough to understand he gains more power by having companies in multiple states.

Tugg
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:24 am

Tugger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Musk is doing this for the money. Likely he will relocate the Executive HQ and many operations to no state income tax and rich persons paradise of Texas. Many employees will get cuts in pay, benefits and perks. Likely the only censorship will be to comply with the laws of the various countries Twitter is available in. The best hope is that corporate advertisers will pull advertising on Twitter to avoid conflicts with racists, sexists, anti-GLTBQ's and other haters.

I doubt a lot of that will fly with the current employee base. There is no growth to promise nor anything "new" to be part of. This is a just a job once the purchase is made and people cash out. If not done wisely it will be a cluster. and the site will suffer.

Yeah I really don't see the upside here, beyond maybe some type of subscription service.

It is however the death knell for Truth Social, and a lot of other conservative platforms that were triggered by Twitter. :rotfl:
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:00 am

flyguy89 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The problem with that take is that it’s almost always still the government coercing platforms to “moderate content” more rigorously.

Government coercing? It's mostly advertisement revenue "coercing". You can allow free reign and FrEe sPeeCh and wind up with a nazi pedophile sewer like 4Chan, which will attract precisely zero advertising spend. Or you can moderate the worst of the content out and have brands that are willing to advertise on your platform.

If it were only advertisers, governments wouldn’t be tripping over themselves for more and more content moderation to “safeguard democracy.”


Yes but there have been only Congressional hearings for show, no major bipartisan legislation of any kind. At the end of the day it is still advertising spend and how that's moving that dictates BOD behavior at these major platforms.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:02 am

Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I am so here for it. I’m rooting neither for nor against Elon, but Twitter is an absolute dumpster fire so the bar for a better outcome is set pretty low IMO.

The key challenge I see for Mr. Musk is the fact that Twitter is NOT an engineering challenge, it is something entirely different. And from what I can tell the requirements of administering such a platform are at odds with how he views expression as an individual vs running a business.

This is a business. Not a "freedom of speech" thing. Freedom of speech at a company has basically never equated to success and this had been proven many times over with the large number of failed online discussion boards that allowed the conversations to get out of hand and not be conducive to a large and diverse group of people using them without annoying them into not using them.

There is no sleeping on the line or improving processes and manufacturing efficiencies here. No "fail fast" ability. This is a mostly mature product with an established presence and a sitting workforce in place. This is a VERY different situation for Mr. Musk.

He is the one that will have to change, as much as anyone or anything else, if he is to succeed and take Twitter to higher heights.

I think he will be mostly hands off, except for making a show of moving the company out of California.

Honestly, I see a dumpster fire and irrelevance in Twitter's future if some of what I see in Mr. Musk style is applied to Twitter.

But if he puts in place a strong process to weed out useless elements and tweets etc. he might be able to do something. Now... the question as to how he monetizes the platform to make it more valuable someday? I don't know how or what he can do for that.

Tugg


Twitter will certainly become an even bigger morass of random Crypto and retail investment influencers than it already is.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:30 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Government coercing? It's mostly advertisement revenue "coercing". You can allow free reign and FrEe sPeeCh and wind up with a nazi pedophile sewer like 4Chan, which will attract precisely zero advertising spend. Or you can moderate the worst of the content out and have brands that are willing to advertise on your platform.

If it were only advertisers, governments wouldn’t be tripping over themselves for more and more content moderation to “safeguard democracy.”


Yes but there have been only Congressional hearings for show, no major bipartisan legislation of any kind. At the end of the day it is still advertising spend and how that's moving that dictates BOD behavior at these major platforms.

It would be more than naive to think growing bipartisan consensus regarding content moderation/social media regulation, paired with concrete attempts at the executive level and hard legislation passed by other major world governments, has no coercive impact on the content moderation practices of these companies and by extension how they want to be perceived by potential regulators.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:42 am

flyguy89 wrote:
It would be more than naive to think growing bipartisan consensus regarding content moderation/social media regulation, paired with concrete attempts at the executive level and hard legislation passed by other major world governments, has no coercive impact on the content moderation practices of these companies and by extension how they want to be perceived by potential regulators.

That seems far fetched we are talking dozens, hundreds even, of sites and sources, and you are suggesting they are all acting in concert in step with a completely out of step, confused, and often politically bankrupt governmental actions?

Tugg
 
flyguy89
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:04 am

Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
It would be more than naive to think growing bipartisan consensus regarding content moderation/social media regulation, paired with concrete attempts at the executive level and hard legislation passed by other major world governments, has no coercive impact on the content moderation practices of these companies and by extension how they want to be perceived by potential regulators.

That seems far fetched we are talking dozens, hundreds even, of sites and sources, and you are suggesting they are all acting in concert in step with a completely out of step, confused, and often politically bankrupt governmental actions?

Tugg

Not in the slightest. I think a lot of these companies are also scrambling in every which way which is why content moderation practices are so inconsistent and haphazard and ultimately tick everyone off…but it’s all still in service to their interpretation of what they think will please regulators, or potential regulators as it were.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:47 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
It would be more than naive to think growing bipartisan consensus regarding content moderation/social media regulation, paired with concrete attempts at the executive level and hard legislation passed by other major world governments, has no coercive impact on the content moderation practices of these companies and by extension how they want to be perceived by potential regulators.

That seems far fetched we are talking dozens, hundreds even, of sites and sources, and you are suggesting they are all acting in concert in step with a completely out of step, confused, and often politically bankrupt governmental actions?

Tugg

Not in the slightest. I think a lot of these companies are also scrambling in every which way which is why content moderation practices are so inconsistent and haphazard and ultimately tick everyone off…but it’s all still in service to their interpretation of what they think will please regulators, or potential regulators as it were.


For their legal departments, sure, they are busy working on the regulatory concerns and/or steps to pacify them. But this is much bigger than your characterization of throwing all in the kitchen sink over the government end of the politics of content moderation.

I assure you the PR and advertising concerns are the lasting, driving influence here. As *those* entities have made more of a political show of where they stand in reponse to market winds, the platforms they associate with have had to respond in kind. Give you a little hint why: billion$ at stake.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:18 am

Tugger wrote:
The board wasn't stupid or trapped, this isn't about about content moderation, for Twitter the past few years has been, and today's sale is ALL about paying back investors. Now it is on the new owners shoulders to do what the public company could never do at a proper scale. And the good thing about taking it private is that the new owners can mostly do what they want without the investor panic and lawsuits.

Tugg


I'd be very wary of believing that Musk's ownership somehow liberates Twitter from monetization issues, on the contrary.
Musk knows how to maintain the appearance of an eccentric billionaire who throws money around for fun and pet projects. I don't believe this to be anymore than a façade, at best.
Musk didn't buy Twitter on a hunch. He very much intends to profit from it one way or another. The amount of power that this platform gives him is rather frightening if you ask me, especially when one delves a little more into his World view...

For instance, here is Bezos casually pondering how much power this moves gives China over one of the World's most powerful communication platform:
https://www.thestreet.com/investing/jef ... over-china

Some could easily dismiss this as Bezos' ego being hurt at the sight of his rival billionaire pulling publicity stunts he couldn't dream of, and it may be true in part.
Yet, Musk's involvement in China and his dependence on its supply chain, manufacturing might and domestic market for the very survival of his car brand can easily lead to question how much leverage the CCP can exert over him.

If you ask me, and especially given the current Global political climate, giving Musk the keys to Twitter is absolutely terrifying. The man is a complete wild card who knows very well how to disguise his real intentions by creating a personality cult around himself, especially with the younger generations.
The last thing we need is more billionaires in control of global communication and information channels.
 
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:29 am

If I was a Tesla stockholder I would be worried. Tesla is valued extremely high, based on Elon Musk being its CEO, and on Tesla being a future software geant with amazing tech. Now Elon will be distracted by Twitter, and there is still no real hint of the Tesla software. Elon just bought a software company, instead of creating one...

The US likes to tell us foreigners it is unique, with the great 2nd amendment, and of course the 1st one. To be honest referring to fundamental rights as "amendments" to a constitution is strange right from the get go. With that said, the US way of doing it is pretty unique, indeed. Whatever Musk does, Twitter will still have to follow local laws, or risk banning, even in Western countries.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3575
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:32 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
That seems far fetched we are talking dozens, hundreds even, of sites and sources, and you are suggesting they are all acting in concert in step with a completely out of step, confused, and often politically bankrupt governmental actions?

Tugg

Not in the slightest. I think a lot of these companies are also scrambling in every which way which is why content moderation practices are so inconsistent and haphazard and ultimately tick everyone off…but it’s all still in service to their interpretation of what they think will please regulators, or potential regulators as it were.


For their legal departments, sure, they are busy working on the regulatory concerns and/or steps to pacify them. But this is much bigger than your characterization of throwing all in the kitchen sink over the government end of the politics of content moderation.

I assure you the PR and advertising concerns are the lasting, driving influence here. As *those* entities have made more of a political show of where they stand in reponse to market winds, the platforms they associate with have had to respond in kind. Give you a little hint why: billion$ at stake.

I never said they "threw it all in the kitchen sink.” The more banal stuff that constitutes the bulk of content moderation (porn, scamming, spamming, etc) is mostly UX/CX, ad-driven. But this recent push…managing disinformation (whatever the prevailing political tribe defines as “disinformation”), micromanaging moderation decisions, removing Section 230, etc, is certainly government/politically driven.
 
Trololzilla
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:43 am

Must've really had it out for the "Elon private jet tracker" guy to spend $44 billion just to ban that account.
 
Avatar2go
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:41 am

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:10 am

The scary thing is that there are already conspiracy theorists hailing this as confirmation that their theories are correct, but were suppressed. It will be interesting to see how Musk deals with them.

Here is a good article about the impact of having those theories widely disseminated, and how some people are especially vulnerable to them.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... y-theories
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:07 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Not in the slightest. I think a lot of these companies are also scrambling in every which way which is why content moderation practices are so inconsistent and haphazard and ultimately tick everyone off…but it’s all still in service to their interpretation of what they think will please regulators, or potential regulators as it were.


For their legal departments, sure, they are busy working on the regulatory concerns and/or steps to pacify them. But this is much bigger than your characterization of throwing all in the kitchen sink over the government end of the politics of content moderation.

I assure you the PR and advertising concerns are the lasting, driving influence here. As *those* entities have made more of a political show of where they stand in reponse to market winds, the platforms they associate with have had to respond in kind. Give you a little hint why: billion$ at stake.

I never said they "threw it all in the kitchen sink.” The more banal stuff that constitutes the bulk of content moderation (porn, scamming, spamming, etc) is mostly UX/CX, ad-driven. But this recent push…managing disinformation (whatever the prevailing political tribe defines as “disinformation”), micromanaging moderation decisions, removing Section 230, etc, is certainly government/politically driven.


Logic exercise: you run a large platform, and internal data reveals that a significant percentage of activity/posts is sourced from troll farms/state-run 'companies' in PRC/Russia, and the trendlines clearly show heightened activity in months leading up to major elections in US/UK/France/India etc. What do you do about it?

Let's not be intellectually dishonest here and pretend there's no difference between politically-motivated 'disinformation' labels domestically and straight-up bonafide disinformation from malign actors that seek to exacerbate wedge politics in our countries and destabilize alliances.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:19 pm

After Elon takes over, I predict some Twitter "heads are gonna roll..."

;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJT-K8p8ufI
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17927
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:14 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
After Elon takes over, I predict some Twitter "heads are gonna roll..."

;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJT-K8p8ufI


Conservative glee over that doesn't really make sense since their favorite Twitter target already left last year. And Jack Dorsey actually now says Musk is a key to the platform's survival. For all the flack Jack caught over the decisions to silence Trump's personal feed, he has never been a mainstreamer and openly laments that Twitter had to use the ad model and Wall Street money to scale up. Doesn't sound very establishment to me.
 
PPVRA
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:17 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

For their legal departments, sure, they are busy working on the regulatory concerns and/or steps to pacify them. But this is much bigger than your characterization of throwing all in the kitchen sink over the government end of the politics of content moderation.

I assure you the PR and advertising concerns are the lasting, driving influence here. As *those* entities have made more of a political show of where they stand in reponse to market winds, the platforms they associate with have had to respond in kind. Give you a little hint why: billion$ at stake.

I never said they "threw it all in the kitchen sink.” The more banal stuff that constitutes the bulk of content moderation (porn, scamming, spamming, etc) is mostly UX/CX, ad-driven. But this recent push…managing disinformation (whatever the prevailing political tribe defines as “disinformation”), micromanaging moderation decisions, removing Section 230, etc, is certainly government/politically driven.


Logic exercise: you run a large platform, and internal data reveals that a significant percentage of activity/posts is sourced from troll farms/state-run 'companies' in PRC/Russia, and the trendlines clearly show heightened activity in months leading up to major elections in US/UK/France/India etc. What do you do about it?

Let's not be intellectually dishonest here and pretend there's no difference between politically-motivated 'disinformation' labels domestically and straight-up bonafide disinformation from malign actors that seek to exacerbate wedge politics in our countries and destabilize alliances.


The censoring of the New York Post’s article on Biden’s son prior to the election didn’t need foreign malign actors to influence the election. It didn’t even need a single owner at the helm of twitter. Manias are just as much a source of censorship and they can be incentivized by malign foreign actors through disinformation.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:59 pm

PPVRA wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I never said they "threw it all in the kitchen sink.” The more banal stuff that constitutes the bulk of content moderation (porn, scamming, spamming, etc) is mostly UX/CX, ad-driven. But this recent push…managing disinformation (whatever the prevailing political tribe defines as “disinformation”), micromanaging moderation decisions, removing Section 230, etc, is certainly government/politically driven.


Logic exercise: you run a large platform, and internal data reveals that a significant percentage of activity/posts is sourced from troll farms/state-run 'companies' in PRC/Russia, and the trendlines clearly show heightened activity in months leading up to major elections in US/UK/France/India etc. What do you do about it?

Let's not be intellectually dishonest here and pretend there's no difference between politically-motivated 'disinformation' labels domestically and straight-up bonafide disinformation from malign actors that seek to exacerbate wedge politics in our countries and destabilize alliances.


The censoring of the New York Post’s article on Biden’s son prior to the election didn’t need foreign malign actors to influence the election. It didn’t even need a single owner at the helm of twitter. Manias are just as much a source of censorship and they can be incentivized by malign foreign actors through disinformation.


Are you referring to the 'articles' so crap that even NYP staff didn't want their names attached? That didn't 'influence' the election anyway. Both candidates had criminal sons, *snore*.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/10 ... ories.html
 
luckyone
Posts: 4404
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:15 pm

I'm not sold on the supposed altruistic purposes of Musk's purchase--nobody drops $43 billion dollars for the betterment of mankind. He's an egomaniac just like the rest of them, and he has his own agenda -- and like all the others he's just as disingenuous. He makes a lot of noise about policy and complains when Tesla isn't included but ignores the fact that Tesla got off the ground because of massive government subsidies and doesn't bother to talk about when he actually is invited to the White House, etc etc. The people running Twitter should make the best deal for them. I've never used Twitter and wouldn't have regardless of who owned it, so this doesn't really affect me, and frankly I think it's silly how Twitter has come into so many people's crosshairs in an era when any idiot with a little programming knowledge can get their message out. Lack of presence on Twitter hasn't muted Trump or anybody kicked off of it.
PPVRA wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
I never said they "threw it all in the kitchen sink.” The more banal stuff that constitutes the bulk of content moderation (porn, scamming, spamming, etc) is mostly UX/CX, ad-driven. But this recent push…managing disinformation (whatever the prevailing political tribe defines as “disinformation”), micromanaging moderation decisions, removing Section 230, etc, is certainly government/politically driven.


Logic exercise: you run a large platform, and internal data reveals that a significant percentage of activity/posts is sourced from troll farms/state-run 'companies' in PRC/Russia, and the trendlines clearly show heightened activity in months leading up to major elections in US/UK/France/India etc. What do you do about it?

Let's not be intellectually dishonest here and pretend there's no difference between politically-motivated 'disinformation' labels domestically and straight-up bonafide disinformation from malign actors that seek to exacerbate wedge politics in our countries and destabilize alliances.


The censoring of the New York Post’s article on Biden’s son prior to the election didn’t need foreign malign actors to influence the election. It didn’t even need a single owner at the helm of twitter. Manias are just as much a source of censorship and they can be incentivized by malign foreign actors through disinformation.

And yet we all still knew about it...Feel free to indulge in criticism of a platform, but if we start a list of "Stories not covered by partisan media," the lists will be of similar lengths.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15342
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:28 pm

Tugger wrote:
casinterest wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
There’s no doubt in me Elon will moderate content. But the more interesting thing is how he plans to “unlock twitter’s potential”.



I think Elon looks at it as an important communications tool platform. Some content is way out there, but there are some real gems in terms of sports, event reporting, and engineering notifications.

He will have to moderate it. There are far too many people looking to destroy message boards.

OK, but how does any of that make any money?
Moderation was entirely for the purpose of making the platform attractive and enjoyable for users to use. Well profitable users. To prevent it from becoming the mess (and "truth-fest" :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: ) that some desire it to become.

But Mr. Musk no longer has the same interests in that as he did before he owned it.

How do you monetize Twitter? How does it make money? Capture users location when they use the app? A "Pro" account option for businesses? Ad's attached to and below every tweet or that you view before reading? Links embedded in tweets, advertisers buying words that appear with an underline?

How is Musk going to make Twitter more valuable as a product, as a thing on the internet?

News and information is one thing, but everyone depends on outside dollars, aka advertising or selling user information.

The board wasn't stupid or trapped, this isn't about about content moderation, for Twitter the past few years has been, and today's sale is ALL about paying back investors. Now it is on the new owners shoulders to do what the public company could never do at a proper scale. And the good thing about taking it private is that the new owners can mostly do what they want without the investor panic and lawsuits.

Tugg



Well as has been proved there is a certain demographic that will watch and pay for lies and junk. If Elon can monetize twitter and "Ultra" free speech in a way that drives revenue, he is more than welcome. However, I feel he will have to keep moderation as people will quit the platforms that are full of junk.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8648
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:39 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Logic exercise: you run a large platform, and internal data reveals that a significant percentage of activity/posts is sourced from troll farms/state-run 'companies' in PRC/Russia, and the trendlines clearly show heightened activity in months leading up to major elections in US/UK/France/India etc. What do you do about it?

Let's not be intellectually dishonest here and pretend there's no difference between politically-motivated 'disinformation' labels domestically and straight-up bonafide disinformation from malign actors that seek to exacerbate wedge politics in our countries and destabilize alliances.


The censoring of the New York Post’s article on Biden’s son prior to the election didn’t need foreign malign actors to influence the election. It didn’t even need a single owner at the helm of twitter. Manias are just as much a source of censorship and they can be incentivized by malign foreign actors through disinformation.


Are you referring to the 'articles' so crap that even NYP staff didn't want their names attached? That didn't 'influence' the election anyway. Both candidates had criminal sons, *snore*.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/10 ... ories.html


The one the Washington Post apologized for censoring:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... reckoning/
 
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william
Topic Author
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:46 pm

When Bezos bought WAPO there was not this level of consternation. Isn't Elon the Climate Change darling? He put his money where his mouth is and proven the worth of EVs. But because he buys a social media platform the world is coming to an end?

If one was cynical, one would get the clear impression reading the reaction to this buyout that this was more than just a "social media" platform to certain groups.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1688
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:56 pm

Elon has far better principles than most. I’d rather have him in charge than the average set of Silicon Valley clowns.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 15342
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:25 pm

The one thing you can trust about Elon is that he is not afraid to change the plan when empirical evidence suggests that his current plan is not working.
We saw it at Spacex, We saw it at Tesla, and I am sure we will see it at Twitter.

To this point Elon has been a consumer and producer of Tweets. Now he will be responsible for hiring and firing the people that must make it all work and be profitable. We will have to see what he will do going forward over a few years.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:37 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Elon has far better principles than most. I’d rather have him in charge than the average set of Silicon Valley clowns.


Principles like calling the man who helped rescue kids trapped in a cave in Thailand a pedo? Those far better principles?
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1688
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:48 pm

scbriml wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Elon has far better principles than most. I’d rather have him in charge than the average set of Silicon Valley clowns.


Principles like calling the man who helped rescue kids trapped in a cave in Thailand a pedo? Those far better principles?


I didn’t say his principles were good. Only said “far better.” :)
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1688
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
The one thing you can trust about Elon is that he is not afraid to change the plan when empirical evidence suggests that his current plan is not working.
We saw it at Spacex, We saw it at Tesla, and I am sure we will see it at Twitter.

To this point Elon has been a consumer and producer of Tweets. Now he will be responsible for hiring and firing the people that must make it all work and be profitable. We will have to see what he will do going forward over a few years.


The far better outcome for shareholders would have been Musk taking 51% ownership and full board control. But, sadly todays shareholders will miss out on the (probably drastic) benefits of having Elon in charge. It will be a measure of how ineptly run todays social media companies really are. It’s not that the engineers aren’t smart. They are fine. Similar deal with Boeing, obviously…
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3575
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

For their legal departments, sure, they are busy working on the regulatory concerns and/or steps to pacify them. But this is much bigger than your characterization of throwing all in the kitchen sink over the government end of the politics of content moderation.

I assure you the PR and advertising concerns are the lasting, driving influence here. As *those* entities have made more of a political show of where they stand in reponse to market winds, the platforms they associate with have had to respond in kind. Give you a little hint why: billion$ at stake.

I never said they "threw it all in the kitchen sink.” The more banal stuff that constitutes the bulk of content moderation (porn, scamming, spamming, etc) is mostly UX/CX, ad-driven. But this recent push…managing disinformation (whatever the prevailing political tribe defines as “disinformation”), micromanaging moderation decisions, removing Section 230, etc, is certainly government/politically driven.


Logic exercise: you run a large platform, and internal data reveals that a significant percentage of activity/posts is sourced from troll farms/state-run 'companies' in PRC/Russia, and the trendlines clearly show heightened activity in months leading up to major elections in US/UK/France/India etc. What do you do about it?

Let's not be intellectually dishonest here and pretend there's no difference between politically-motivated 'disinformation' labels domestically and straight-up bonafide disinformation from malign actors that seek to exacerbate wedge politics in our countries and destabilize alliances.

Bot blocking and bot blocking technology isn’t hard. Picking and choosing which news stories to actively deprecate is not in the same category however.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 3575
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:16 pm

william wrote:
When Bezos bought WAPO there was not this level of consternation. Isn't Elon the Climate Change darling? He put his money where his mouth is and proven the worth of EVs. But because he buys a social media platform the world is coming to an end?

It’s because Musk has said some things not in line with progressive orthodoxy, and he’s been a bit trollish on Twitter as of late. He’s also a billionaire. Therefore he’s now been coded as “right wing.” Hence the handwringing.

william wrote:
If one was cynical, one would get the clear impression reading the reaction to this buyout that this was more than just a "social media" platform to certain groups.

It’s absolutely more than a social media platform to the super online types which is why you’re seeing these hilariously over-the-top reactions…my favorite thus far has been comparing Twitter now to a Berlin cafe in the waning days of Weimar Germany. I honestly don’t think Musk will be able to do better with Twitter and agree with some criticisms others have brought forward…seems like a questionable investment for him personally, but worst case scenario in my view is that Twitter collapses or fades into irrelevance which I don’t think would be a bad social outcome.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Elon Musk offers to buy Twitter for $43 billion

Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:30 pm

I guess I should be a financial advisor, Tesla lost 100 billion in value after my remarks this morning.

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