Twelve people have been injured and three arrested after a shooting at a mall in Columbia, South Carolina. The victims appear to have been specifically targeted in this shooting. Interesting to see what this will lead to and if South Carolina will tighten their gun control laws.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/16/us/shoot ... index.html

Instead of always jumping right to gun control laws, why don't we instead get over the taboo of talking about why a small portion of the population is committing an overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides?

It sounds like this gun wasn't legal to begin with, and the suspect was connected to another shooting before.

Just another day in America.

910A wrote:

Just another day in America.

Just another day "in the 'hood" in America. Most of the country isn't like that.

johns624 wrote:

910A wrote:

Just another day in America.

Just another day "in the 'hood" in America. Most of the country isn't like that.

In the hood? The mall is located in a very suburban looking area in a not that big of a city of Columbia, SC. But go on with your quasi racist thoughts.

LittleFokker wrote:

johns624 wrote:

910A wrote:

Just another day in America.

Just another day "in the 'hood" in America. Most of the country isn't like that.

In the hood? The mall is located in a very suburban looking area in a not that big of a city of Columbia, SC. But go on with your quasi racist thoughts.

Here's a hint---not all shady neighborhoods are in the central city. I spent a couple of weeks in Columbia and it's not that great of a place. It's got nothing to do with racism. It's got to do with facts. People keep talking about "gun violence". Sorry, it's "gang violence" but nobody wants to address that.

SoCalPilot wrote:

Instead of always jumping right to gun control laws, why don't we instead get over the taboo of talking about why a small portion of the population is committing an overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides?

It sounds like this gun wasn't legal to begin with, and the suspect was connected to another shooting before.

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

More Guns equals more crime and injuries , and it appears all of this was about a personal dispute that got out of hand,.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

How many were injured from the one gun vs the other two?

MaverickM11 wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

Instead of always jumping right to gun control laws, why don't we instead get over the taboo of talking about why a small portion of the population is committing an overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides?

It sounds like this gun wasn't legal to begin with, and the suspect was connected to another shooting before.

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

And this is your answer to a serious problem?
Pretend that it doesn't exist to score SJW internet points?

MaverickM11 wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

Instead of always jumping right to gun control laws, why don't we instead get over the taboo of talking about why a small portion of the population is committing an overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides?

It sounds like this gun wasn't legal to begin with, and the suspect was connected to another shooting before.

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

What's racist about acknowledging the facts?

Seems it would be more racist to try and conceal them.

casinterest wrote:

More Guns equals more crime and injuries , and it appears all of this was about a personal dispute that got out of hand,.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

How many were injured from the one gun vs the other two?

Of course more guns means more shootings, just like more cars means more car accidents and more computers means more cyber crime. It seems as if this particular case was likely gang-related so it doesn't support certain talking points.

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

More Guns equals more crime and injuries , and it appears all of this was about a personal dispute that got out of hand,.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

How many were injured from the one gun vs the other two?

Of course more guns means more shootings, just like more cars means more car accidents and more computers means more cyber crime. It seems as if this particular case was likely gang-related so it doesn't support certain talking points.

Whether a personal issue, a gang issue, or a mental issue. People are injured and killed more due to lax restrictions on guns.

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

More Guns equals more crime and injuries , and it appears all of this was about a personal dispute that got out of hand,.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

How many were injured from the one gun vs the other two?

Of course more guns means more shootings, just like more cars means more car accidents and more computers means more cyber crime. It seems as if this particular case was likely gang-related so it doesn't support certain talking points.

Whether a personal issue, a gang issue, or a mental issue. People are injured and killed more due to lax restrictions on guns.

I'm genuinely curious, let's say this gun was illegal, what peice of legislation do you propose that would have stopped gun violence such as this?

I would agree with you that more restrictions on guns would help if a majority of gun crimes were committed with legal guns, but thats not the case.

The vast majority of crime that is gun-related is committed by people who possess the gun illegally. The gun violence problem in America isn't a gun control issue, it's a cultural one. It's not one that will be stopped by passing further gun control legislation.

TriJets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

Instead of always jumping right to gun control laws, why don't we instead get over the taboo of talking about why a small portion of the population is committing an overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides?

It sounds like this gun wasn't legal to begin with, and the suspect was connected to another shooting before.

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

What's racist about acknowledging the facts?

Seems it would be more racist to try and conceal them.

Which facts? The facts that I know some are referring to seem to exist in a vacuum and strangely exclude any history or context.

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

Instead of always jumping right to gun control laws, why don't we instead get over the taboo of talking about why a small portion of the population is committing an overwhelming majority of gun crimes and homicides?

It sounds like this gun wasn't legal to begin with, and the suspect was connected to another shooting before.

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

And this is your answer to a serious problem?
Pretend that it doesn't exist to score SJW internet points?

This isn't even the first mall shooting that day. South Carolina has been one of the ten most violent states for a long time--you think anyone is interested in an "answer to a serious problem"? 2020 homicides are up 23% vs 2019, up 56% (!!!) vs 2011. Overwhelming majority by firearms. What is your answer to this serious problem?

https://www.sled.sc.gov/forms/statistic ... rolina.pdf

SoCalPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Of course more guns means more shootings, just like more cars means more car accidents and more computers means more cyber crime. It seems as if this particular case was likely gang-related so it doesn't support certain talking points.

Whether a personal issue, a gang issue, or a mental issue. People are injured and killed more due to lax restrictions on guns.

I'm genuinely curious, let's say this gun was illegal, what peice of legislation do you propose that would have stopped gun violence such as this?

I would agree with you that more restrictions on guns would help if a majority of gun crimes were committed with legal guns, but thats not the case.

The vast majority of crime that is gun-related is committed by people who possess the gun illegally. The gun violence problem in America isn't a gun control issue, it's a cultural one. It's not one that will be stopped by passing further gun control legislation.

More guns equals more violence right. If guns were more restricted, even illegally obtained ones would be in less supply. Guns get obtained illegally through theft, private party sales, straw sales and a host of other means. Less supply means less product to move illegally.

MaverickM11 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

What's racist about acknowledging the facts?

Seems it would be more racist to try and conceal them.

Which facts? The facts that I know some are referring to seem to exist in a vacuum and strangely exclude any history or context.

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Looks like you're about to do a racism or a critical race theory. Bold strategy Cotton--let's see if it pays off.

And this is your answer to a serious problem?
Pretend that it doesn't exist to score SJW internet points?

This isn't even the first mall shooting that day. South Carolina has been one of the ten most violent states for a long time--you think anyone is interested in an "answer to a serious problem"? 2020 homicides are up 23% vs 2019, up 56% (!!!) vs 2011. Overwhelming majority by firearms. What is your answer to this serious problem?

https://www.sled.sc.gov/forms/statistic ... rolina.pdf

My answer would be don't let the guy who just shot several people walk and go to work and whatever just cause he said self defence.
Libbie laws and no crime punishment is what is triggering it all.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

PixelPilot wrote:

My answer would be don't let the guy who just shot several people walk and go to work and whatever just cause he said self defence.
Libbie laws and no crime punishment is what is triggering it all.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

You have to get better arguments...
Self-defence is now a 'libby' law?
If not, are you suggesting that prosecutors are so inept that they would let a guy walk just because his lawyer announced his legal defense?
Are you also suggesting that more law enforcement and more punishment is the answer to America's societal violence problem (gun and otherwise), despite already having one of the highest incarceration rate of the World?

I'd really love to live in the simplistic World of conservatives, where everything can be solved by grade-school level reasoning...

casinterest wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Whether a personal issue, a gang issue, or a mental issue. People are injured and killed more due to lax restrictions on guns.

I'm genuinely curious, let's say this gun was illegal, what peice of legislation do you propose that would have stopped gun violence such as this?

I would agree with you that more restrictions on guns would help if a majority of gun crimes were committed with legal guns, but thats not the case.

The vast majority of crime that is gun-related is committed by people who possess the gun illegally. The gun violence problem in America isn't a gun control issue, it's a cultural one. It's not one that will be stopped by passing further gun control legislation.

More guns equals more violence right. If guns were more restricted, even illegally obtained ones would be in less supply. Guns get obtained illegally through theft, private party sales, straw sales and a host of other means. Less supply means less product to move illegally.

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

SoCalPilot wrote:

I'm genuinely curious, let's say this gun was illegal, what peice of legislation do you propose that would have stopped gun violence such as this?

I would agree with you that more restrictions on guns would help if a majority of gun crimes were committed with legal guns, but thats not the case.

The vast majority of crime that is gun-related is committed by people who possess the gun illegally. The gun violence problem in America isn't a gun control issue, it's a cultural one. It's not one that will be stopped by passing further gun control legislation.

More guns equals more violence right. If guns were more restricted, even illegally obtained ones would be in less supply. Guns get obtained illegally through theft, private party sales, straw sales and a host of other means. Less supply means less product to move illegally.

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

Francoflier wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

My answer would be don't let the guy who just shot several people walk and go to work and whatever just cause he said self defence.
Libbie laws and no crime punishment is what is triggering it all.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

You have to get better arguments...
Self-defence is now a 'libby' law?
If not, are you suggesting that prosecutors are so inept that they would let a guy walk just because his lawyer announced his legal defense?
Are you also suggesting that more law enforcement and more punishment is the answer to America's societal violence problem (gun and otherwise), despite already having one of the highest incarceration rate of the World?

I'd really love to live in the simplistic World of conservatives, where everything can be solved by grade-school level reasoning...

Letting a guy walk after he just shot several people is definitely a libby thing.
And that's a system fail. Doesn't matter who was at the helm.
Keep him/her till this is resolved. We're talking 9 people shot. That is mass shooting by definition lmao and the dude can go to work?

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

More guns equals more violence right. If guns were more restricted, even illegally obtained ones would be in less supply. Guns get obtained illegally through theft, private party sales, straw sales and a host of other means. Less supply means less product to move illegally.

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

That is an opinion piece. It would be nice to have the original source studies.
For now we have the below.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.

Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply in recent years. The 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak of 18,253 recorded by the CDC in 1993. The 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years and a 75% increase over 10 years.

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

The article tells of a guy who grabbed a gun to go into a bar as he was drunk and angry. He then got shot by a guy with a rifle who in turn got shot by the drunk guy.
So the shot guy with the rifle stopped the drunk guy going into the bar an shooting more.
Honest question - how many people would have been shot if the drunk guy didn't have his friends gun?

So the rifle saved the day for something that could have been avoided in the first place.

casinterest wrote:

DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

They do? If they don't have a license does that mean they can't drive a car?

ReverseFlow wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

The article tells of a guy who grabbed a gun to go into a bar as he was drunk and angry. He then got shot by a guy with a rifle who in turn got shot by the drunk guy.
So the shot guy with the rifle stopped the drunk guy going into the bar an shooting more.
Honest question - how many people would have been shot if the drunk guy didn't have his friends gun?

So the rifle saved the day for something that could have been avoided in the first place.

How many cases like this vs 400 thousands that prevented the crime?

PixelPilot wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

The article tells of a guy who grabbed a gun to go into a bar as he was drunk and angry. He then got shot by a guy with a rifle who in turn got shot by the drunk guy.
So the shot guy with the rifle stopped the drunk guy going into the bar an shooting more.
Honest question - how many people would have been shot if the drunk guy didn't have his friends gun?

So the rifle saved the day for something that could have been avoided in the first place.

How many cases like this vs 400 thousands that prevented the crime?

How many of the "Prevented Crimes" involved attempts at weapon theft?

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

ReverseFlow wrote:

The article tells of a guy who grabbed a gun to go into a bar as he was drunk and angry. He then got shot by a guy with a rifle who in turn got shot by the drunk guy.
So the shot guy with the rifle stopped the drunk guy going into the bar an shooting more.
Honest question - how many people would have been shot if the drunk guy didn't have his friends gun?

So the rifle saved the day for something that could have been avoided in the first place.

How many cases like this vs 400 thousands that prevented the crime?

How many of the "Prevented Crimes" involved attempts at weapon theft?

Answer my question and then i'll do my research and answer yours.
We can ping pong all day but we won't learn a thing.

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

How many cases like this vs 400 thousands that prevented the crime?

How many of the "Prevented Crimes" involved attempts at weapon theft?

Answer my question and then i'll do my research and answer yours.

You posted an opinion piece. So without your research, Your assertion is false.

One thing I guess it avoids as such is road rage as you never know if the other guy has a gun.

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

How many of the "Prevented Crimes" involved attempts at weapon theft?

Answer my question and then i'll do my research and answer yours.

You posted an opinion piece. So without your research, Your assertion is false.

You can't even post an opinion so what does it say about the subject?

BTW you clearly didn't even read that article that has multiple links and sources listed.
Start with this "opinion" from that piece lol. Takes a while to load the data.
https://www.justfacts.org/guncontrol.asp

You can always scroll down and read the references of this "non researched" example I posted for you to read.

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

What's racist about acknowledging the facts?

Seems it would be more racist to try and conceal them.

Which facts? The facts that I know some are referring to seem to exist in a vacuum and strangely exclude any history or context.

PixelPilot wrote:

And this is your answer to a serious problem?
Pretend that it doesn't exist to score SJW internet points?

This isn't even the first mall shooting that day. South Carolina has been one of the ten most violent states for a long time--you think anyone is interested in an "answer to a serious problem"? 2020 homicides are up 23% vs 2019, up 56% (!!!) vs 2011. Overwhelming majority by firearms. What is your answer to this serious problem?

https://www.sled.sc.gov/forms/statistic ... rolina.pdf

My answer would be don't let the guy who just shot several people walk and go to work and whatever just cause he said self defence.
Libbie laws and no crime punishment is what is triggering it all.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

Wut. "No crime punishment" in the state that just resurrected death by firing squads? What is a "libbie law"?

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

I love this fantasy, because it would mean places with fewer guns are overwhelmed by crime then, when in reality, fewer guns correlates with fewer gun deaths, and crime tends to be lower as well.

MaverickM11 wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Which facts? The facts that I know some are referring to seem to exist in a vacuum and strangely exclude any history or context.


This isn't even the first mall shooting that day. South Carolina has been one of the ten most violent states for a long time--you think anyone is interested in an "answer to a serious problem"? 2020 homicides are up 23% vs 2019, up 56% (!!!) vs 2011. Overwhelming majority by firearms. What is your answer to this serious problem?

https://www.sled.sc.gov/forms/statistic ... rolina.pdf

My answer would be don't let the guy who just shot several people walk and go to work and whatever just cause he said self defence.
Libbie laws and no crime punishment is what is triggering it all.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

Wut. "No crime punishment" in the state that just resurrected death by firing squads? What is a "libbie law"?

What does have to do with the fact that a mass shooter can go to work next day just cause he said he isn't guilty?
They put an ankle on him so clearly he's not innocent at this point in time.
Somebody released him right? Or that's some kind of magic?

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

My answer would be don't let the guy who just shot several people walk and go to work and whatever just cause he said self defence.
Libbie laws and no crime punishment is what is triggering it all.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/n ... awyer-says

Wut. "No crime punishment" in the state that just resurrected death by firing squads? What is a "libbie law"?

What does have to do with the fact that a mass shooter can go to work next day just cause he said he isn't guilty?
Somebody released him right? Or that's some kind of magic?

You think South Carolina's sky high gun homicide rate is due to bail?

MaverickM11 wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

I love this fantasy, because it would mean places with fewer guns are overwhelmed by crime then, when in reality, fewer guns correlates with fewer gun deaths, and crime tends to be lower as well.

Show me the data that proves your point.
So far the factual info we know is more or less 33K deaths from guns per year (according to google) and that includes everything vs 400K crimes prevented.

Sadly the culture of guns in the USA is causing a rise in murder including mass shooting events in public areas like malls, streets, as well as at private residences. The culture is encouraged by our entertainment media, video games, a need for power and control, the drug trade, domestic violence and economic unevenness.

MaverickM11 wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Wut. "No crime punishment" in the state that just resurrected death by firing squads? What is a "libbie law"?

What does have to do with the fact that a mass shooter can go to work next day just cause he said he isn't guilty?
Somebody released him right? Or that's some kind of magic?

You think South Carolina's sky high gun homicide rate is due to bail?

You have data of all the incidents that distinguishes between first time offenders vs career criminals?

Or better yet, tell me please what is the reason for that since you imply that you know it.

MaverickM11 wrote:

I love this fantasy, because it would mean places with fewer guns are overwhelmed by crime then, when in reality, fewer guns correlates with fewer gun deaths, and crime tends to be lower as well.

You need to differentiate between legal guns and guns used by criminals.

PixelPilot wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

What does have to do with the fact that a mass shooter can go to work next day just cause he said he isn't guilty?
Somebody released him right? Or that's some kind of magic?

You think South Carolina's sky high gun homicide rate is due to bail?

You have data of all the incidents that distinguishes between first time offenders vs career criminals?

Or better yet, tell me please what is the reason for that since you imply that you know it.

You're the one making the claim that SC's gun homicide rate is because of lax bail laws--it's up to you to support that with evidence. But more importantly this guy was bonded out after the shooting so explain to us how bail resulted in the shooting that happened before the bail.

johns624 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

I love this fantasy, because it would mean places with fewer guns are overwhelmed by crime then, when in reality, fewer guns correlates with fewer gun deaths, and crime tends to be lower as well.

You need to differentiate between legal guns and guns used by criminals.

Why? Australia, Europe, Canada, and much of the Middle East have much lower gun ownership rates and much lower intentional homicide rates than the USA. And in a dozen or so states where permitless concealed carry is allowed, what does an illegal gun even mean?

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

Answer my question and then i'll do my research and answer yours.

You posted an opinion piece. So without your research, Your assertion is false.

You can't even post an opinion so what does it say about the subject?

BTW you clearly didn't even read that article that has multiple links and sources listed.
Start with this "opinion" from that piece lol. Takes a while to load the data.
https://www.justfacts.org/guncontrol.asp

You can always scroll down and read the references of this "non researched" example I posted for you to read.

So I asked you to post a fact about your absolutely incorrect and fabricated 400,000 number, and you couldn't do it.
So we will go with my study.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph- ... ggests-no/

Hemenway noted that one commonly cited statistic about guns—that 2.5 million people use them each year to defend themselves or their property — is based on faulty analysis from a 1990s study. A more reliable source of information, the National Crime Victimization Survey, pegs the number of people who use guns in this manner at roughly 100,000, according to Science Vs podcast host Wendy Zukerman. Hemenway added that there is no good evidence that using a gun in self-defense reduces the likelihood of injury. There is some evidence that having a gun may reduce property loss, “but the evidence is equally compelling that having another weapon, such as mace or a baseball bat, will also reduce the likelihood of property loss,” he said.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/data-collection/ncvs


If Guns make us more safe, why do they account for 80% of homicides in the US.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

MaverickM11 wrote:

[ And in a dozen or so states where permitless concealed carry is allowed, what does an illegal gun even mean?

It means a gun carried by someone who can't legally possess a gun. Permitless carry doesn't mean that everyone can carry a gun.

One day it'll finally click in - hopefully. But until then, keep up with all those thoughts and prayers and all hail 2nd Amendment. Simply mind boggling in a Country that sees public shootings literally on a daily basis is so protective of some piece of paper that was written over 200 years ago.

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

According to this person 400K crimes a year are prevented by regular folks with guns.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... arch-show/

How many bystanders die from gun violence? Honest question as I can't find the data.

That is an opinion piece. It would be nice to have the original source studies.
For now we have the below.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... n-the-u-s/

The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.

Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply in recent years. The 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak of 18,253 recorded by the CDC in 1993. The 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years and a 75% increase over 10 years.

Per the Pew Research, 54% of the 45,222 gun deaths were suicide. So that leaves 20,802 people killed by gunfire, not suicide. That is a .00006% chance of being killed by a firearm (using 330M as the population). I would venture a guess and say if you are not involved in certain activities (crimes, etc.), the number is significantly lower.

ACDC8 wrote:

One day it'll finally click in - hopefully. But until then, keep up with all those thoughts and prayers and all hail 2nd Amendment. Simply mind boggling in a Country that sees public shootings literally on a daily basis is so protective of some piece of paper that was written over 200 years ago.

Or, you could be like Canada and ban a bunch of legally owned guns because someone who smuggled one in illegally and couldn't own it, used it to kill some people. The RCMP was all behind the ban because it kept people from questioning their part in the deal. The man had been reported to them and owned a car made up to look like an RCMP patrol car, and they did nothing. The guns were already extremely restricted.
PS--Ever seen Runkle of the Bailey on Youtube? Quite enlightening.

johns624 wrote:

Or, you could be like Canada and ban a bunch of legally owned guns because someone who smuggled one in illegally and couldn't own it, used it to kill some people. The RCMP was all behind the ban because it kept people from questioning their part in the deal. The man had been reported to them and owned a car made up to look like an RCMP patrol car, and they did nothing. The guns were already extremely restricted.
PS--Ever seen Runkle of the Bailey on Youtube? Quite enlightening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why ban legal guns when criminals use illegal guns? Same ol' rhetoric over and over.

johns624 wrote:

Just another day "in the 'hood" in America. Most of the country isn't like that.

Was Sandy Hook in the "hood" as well? What about the Vegas Strip, is that in the "hood" too? Virginia Tech? Man, quite a few "hoods" in the US.

casinterest wrote:

TriJets wrote:

casinterest wrote:

More guns equals more violence right. If guns were more restricted, even illegally obtained ones would be in less supply. Guns get obtained illegally through theft, private party sales, straw sales and a host of other means. Less supply means less product to move illegally.

That's like saying the answer to reducing DUI's is to outlaw cars.

Law-abiding citizens should not be punished because of the actions of criminals.

Law abiding citizens deserve to die and get injured due to abundance of supply of a weapon? Cars are transport, not weapons, and DUI offenders usually get kill switches installed on the car or lose their license.

Excellent example of a system that targets illicit users of a product and leaves the rest of us alone. I'm all for measures that punish people who use or possess firearms unlawfully. Just don't punish or take away rights from the rest of us who don't.

ACDC8 wrote:

One day it'll finally click in - hopefully. But until then, keep up with all those thoughts and prayers and all hail 2nd Amendment. Simply mind boggling in a Country that sees public shootings literally on a daily basis is so protective of some piece of paper that was written over 200 years ago.

That piece of paper has done a remarkable job for us. And that piece of paper is able to be changed (amended). It is just that Americans by and large don't support modifying or getting rid of the 2nd. When seconds count the police are minutes (or hours) away.

ACDC8 wrote:

johns624 wrote:

Or, you could be like Canada and ban a bunch of legally owned guns because someone who smuggled one in illegally and couldn't own it, used it to kill some people. The RCMP was all behind the ban because it kept people from questioning their part in the deal. The man had been reported to them and owned a car made up to look like an RCMP patrol car, and they did nothing. The guns were already extremely restricted.
PS--Ever seen Runkle of the Bailey on Youtube? Quite enlightening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why ban legal guns when criminals use illegal guns? Same ol' rhetoric over and over.

johns624 wrote:

Just another day "in the 'hood" in America. Most of the country isn't like that.

Was Sandy Hook in the "hood" as well? What about the Vegas Strip, is that in the "hood" too? Virginia Tech? Man, quite a few "hoods" in the US.

You can cherry pick examples from many years ago if you would like, but the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of gun crime in the US is carried out in certain (high-crime) areas by a small group of people. But I guess people don't really care when black and brown people are the ones getting gunned down every single day? Don't see much on the news about that...

TriJets wrote:

That piece of paper has done a remarkable job for us. And that piece of paper is able to be changed (amended). It is just that Americans by and large don't support modifying or getting rid of the 2nd. When seconds count the police are minutes (or hours) away.

Thats right, it can be changed, and it needs to change. Using the ol' argument of self defence holds little relevance in this day and age. We have gun violence here too, but what we don't have are mass shootings at a staggering rate that a country should be ashamed of.

TriJets wrote:

You can cherry pick examples from many years ago if you would like, but the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of gun crime in the US is carried out in certain (high-crime) areas by a small group of people. But I guess people don't really care when black and brown people are the ones getting gunned down every single day? Don't see much on the news about that...

What "cherry picking"? Had the gun obsession mentality in the US been addressed years ago instead of keep trying to deflect with the same rhetoric, then maybe those examples wouldn't have happened. You'll always have gun violence, thats reality, weather its brown or black or white, red or green - legal guns or not, doesn't amount to a hill of beans that a First World Nation like the US has a mass shooting problem that is seen no where else. There's only one explanation for it, and it isn't always looking for excuses to protect guns over lives.

ACDC8 wrote:

TriJets wrote:

That piece of paper has done a remarkable job for us. And that piece of paper is able to be changed (amended). It is just that Americans by and large don't support modifying or getting rid of the 2nd. When seconds count the police are minutes (or hours) away.

Thats right, it can be changed, and it needs to change. Using the ol' argument of self defence holds little relevance in this day and age. We have gun violence here too, but what we don't have are mass shootings at a staggering rate that a country should be ashamed of.

TriJets wrote:

You can cherry pick examples from many years ago if you would like, but the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of gun crime in the US is carried out in certain (high-crime) areas by a small group of people. But I guess people don't really care when black and brown people are the ones getting gunned down every single day? Don't see much on the news about that...

What "cherry picking"? Had the gun obsession mentality in the US been addressed years ago instead of keep trying to deflect with the same rhetoric, then maybe those examples wouldn't have happened. You'll always have gun violence, thats reality, weather its brown or black or white, red or green - legal guns or not, doesn't amount to a hill of beans that a First World Nation like the US has a mass shooting problem that is seen no where else. There's only one explanation for it, and it isn't always looking for excuses to protect guns over lives.

Self-defense is very much a thing here....I mentioned earlier here that my wife used our firearm to defend herself from a home invasion while I was at work lats one night. These stories aren't rare....instances of defensive gun usage in the United States dramatically outnumber gun homicides-

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/ ... ach%20year.