Shooting at a Lounge in South Carolina

ArchGuy1 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:27 am

A shooting at a lounge in Furman, South Carolina left nine people injured. Will be interesting to see what comes from this.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/17/us/hampt ... index.html

ReverseFlow · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:47 am

Already being discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1472103&share_tid=1472103&share_fid=1962071&share_type=t&link_source=app

Oh no, wait.....

Kent350787 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:00 am

CAn I be the first to offer the extremely valuable thoughts and prayers.

Kiwirob · Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:14 am

Kent350787 wrote:
CAn I be the first to offer the extremely valuable thoughts and prayers.

I second that, there’s no better protection from guns than god!! America!!

ACDC8 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:24 am

Meh, I'm sure it was just in the "hood" :sarcastic:

petertenthije · Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:28 am

ACDC8 wrote:
Meh, I'm sure it was just in the "hood"

In the hood you say? Then why are we even discussing this. No one cares about the hood.

Sarcasm, in case it was not blatantly obvious.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:49 am

ACDC8 wrote:
Meh, I'm sure it was just in the "hood"

Sure sounds like it, judging by the article.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:25 pm

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:33 pm

casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Of course the great thing about this country, casinterest, is that if you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one. You aren't taking mine, though.

Back on topic, this nightclub absolutely looks "hood" from the pictures:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/ ... 350745001/

If I had to picture "places where one is likely to get shot", a double-wide "nightclub" with strippers and f-list rappers in the middle of the night would probably be pretty high on that list.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:41 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Of course the great thing about this country, casinterest, is that if you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one. You aren't taking mine, though.

Back on topic, this nightclub absolutely looks "hood" from the pictures:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/ ... 350745001/

So you all want to just go with the Racism angle instead of the Gun angle? Funny logic. Guns are designed for death. Cars are not.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:51 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Of course the great thing about this country, casinterest, is that if you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one. You aren't taking mine, though.

Back on topic, this nightclub absolutely looks "hood" from the pictures:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/ ... 350745001/

So you all want to just go with the Racism angle instead of the Gun angle? Funny logic. Guns are designed for death. Cars are not.

What's racist? Another poster sarcastically implied that he doubted this shooting was in the hood and I proved him wrong. Interestingly enough, 51% of known murderers (and a similar percentage of murder victims) in this country belong to a very limited demographic (young, black, male)-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

If we could figure out how to reduce crime in that specific demographic, gun homicides would plummet with no infringement upon law-abiding people's rights needed. Even the Democrats have conceded that they have lost the gun control battle.

scbriml · Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:51 pm

TriJets wrote:
More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Source: https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63899787.jpg

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:03 pm

scbriml wrote:
TriJets wrote:
More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Source: https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63899787.jpg

Not really. It is a perfect analogy. More of anything will lead to more misuse of that object.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:05 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:

More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Of course the great thing about this country, casinterest, is that if you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one. You aren't taking mine, though.

Back on topic, this nightclub absolutely looks "hood" from the pictures:

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/ ... 350745001/

So you all want to just go with the Racism angle instead of the Gun angle? Funny logic. Guns are designed for death. Cars are not.

What's racist? Another poster sarcastically implied that he doubted this shooting was in the hood and I proved him wrong. Interestingly enough, 51% of known murderers (and a similar percentage of murder victims) in this country belong to a very limited demographic (young, black, male)-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

If we could figure out how to reduce crime in that specific demographic, gun homicides would plummet with no infringement upon law-abiding people's rights needed. Even the Democrats have conceded that they have lost the gun control battle.

We could reduce crime in that specific demographic if there was stricter gun control, and more weight given to CRT. And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2019/005-508.pdf

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So you all want to just go with the Racism angle instead of the Gun angle? Funny logic. Guns are designed for death. Cars are not.

What's racist? Another poster sarcastically implied that he doubted this shooting was in the hood and I proved him wrong. Interestingly enough, 51% of known murderers (and a similar percentage of murder victims) in this country belong to a very limited demographic (young, black, male)-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

If we could figure out how to reduce crime in that specific demographic, gun homicides would plummet with no infringement upon law-abiding people's rights needed. Even the Democrats have conceded that they have lost the gun control battle.

We could reduce crime in that specific demographic if there was stricter gun control, and more weight given to CRT. And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2019/005-508.pdf

You really think that someone that already carries guns illegally is going to care about more gun control? All more gun control would do would be to increase the number of vulnerable targets for well-armed criminals to attack. No wonder even the Democrats have largely conceded that they lost the gun control fight. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Additionally, I wasn't the first person to use the term "hood" in this thread. I quoted and responded to another poster who used that term. If this particular shooting had occurred at a double-wide with rebel flags flying out front, I gladly would have used the term "redneck" to describe the establishment.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:16 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:

What's racist? Another poster sarcastically implied that he doubted this shooting was in the hood and I proved him wrong. Interestingly enough, 51% of known murderers (and a similar percentage of murder victims) in this country belong to a very limited demographic (young, black, male)-

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/20 ... s/table-43

If we could figure out how to reduce crime in that specific demographic, gun homicides would plummet with no infringement upon law-abiding people's rights needed. Even the Democrats have conceded that they have lost the gun control battle.

We could reduce crime in that specific demographic if there was stricter gun control, and more weight given to CRT. And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2019/005-508.pdf

You really think that someone that already carries guns illegally is going to care about more gun control? All more gun control would do would be to increase the number of vulnerable targets for well-armed criminals to attack. No wonder even the Democrats have largely conceded that they lost the gun control fight. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Gun Control would reduce the amount of guns available for needless deaths. Isn't it funny how the GOP's best defense for a weapon designed to end arguments is that they can kill someone else before they kill you? Less guns would mean less illegal guns. Especially through gun buy backs.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:22 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

We could reduce crime in that specific demographic if there was stricter gun control, and more weight given to CRT. And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2019/005-508.pdf

You really think that someone that already carries guns illegally is going to care about more gun control? All more gun control would do would be to increase the number of vulnerable targets for well-armed criminals to attack. No wonder even the Democrats have largely conceded that they lost the gun control fight. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Gun Control would reduce the amount of guns available for needless deaths. Isn't it funny how the GOP's best defense for a weapon designed to end arguments is that they can kill someone else before they kill you? Less guns would mean less illegal guns. Especially through gun buy backs.

There are already more guns in the US than there are people. Gun control would do nothing to make it harder for criminals to obtain guns. All gun control would do would increase the supply of defenseless victims for criminals to prey on. Even Democrats know that when seconds count, the police are minutes (or hours) away. That's why they have conceded that gun control is largely lost. The good news is that you don't have to buy a gun if you don't want one.

scbriml · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:38 pm

TriJets wrote:
[Not really. It is a perfect analogy.

It's clear you have no idea what false equivalence means.

BlueberryWheats · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:43 pm

TriJets wrote:
Of course the great thing about this country, casinterest, is that if you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one. You aren't taking mine, though.

If some gun-toting person doesn't want their life, they don't have to have it. But while taking their own life they don't have to take casinterest's though.

Of course now there'll be the argument that with fewer guns the would-be mass shooters would find alternative methods for mass carnage (running cars into crowds is a popular argument). But really? Would there suddenly be hundreds more people being run over on a yearly basis?

Fewer guns means fewer deaths.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:58 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:

You really think that someone that already carries guns illegally is going to care about more gun control? All more gun control would do would be to increase the number of vulnerable targets for well-armed criminals to attack. No wonder even the Democrats have largely conceded that they lost the gun control fight. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

Gun Control would reduce the amount of guns available for needless deaths. Isn't it funny how the GOP's best defense for a weapon designed to end arguments is that they can kill someone else before they kill you? Less guns would mean less illegal guns. Especially through gun buy backs.

There are already more guns in the US than there are people. Gun control would do nothing to make it harder for criminals to obtain guns. All gun control would do would increase the supply of defenseless victims for criminals to prey on. Even Democrats know that when seconds count, the police are minutes (or hours) away. That's why they have conceded that gun control is largely lost. The good news is that you don't have to buy a gun if you don't want one.

Defenseless prey? How often does your home get broken into? The death stats from the other threads all show, that your chances of dying are higher in lax gun control states.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:59 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
TriJets wrote:
Of course the great thing about this country, casinterest, is that if you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one. You aren't taking mine, though.

If some gun-toting person doesn't want their life, they don't have to have it. But while taking their own life they don't have to take casinterest's though.

Of course now there'll be the argument that with fewer guns the would-be mass shooters would find alternative methods for mass carnage (running cars into crowds is a popular argument). But really? Would there suddenly be hundreds more people being run over on a yearly basis?

Fewer guns means fewer deaths.

And casinterest doesn't have the right to prevent someone else from lawfully defending themselves and/or their family.

Gun ownership is a constitutionally-protected right in the United States. It is not going anywhere. We've already scene where roughly 7% of the population accounts for 50% of homicides and homicide victims. Perhaps the answer is much more policing in high-crime areas and mandatory 20-year prison terms for those caught possessing firearms illegally.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Gun Control would reduce the amount of guns available for needless deaths. Isn't it funny how the GOP's best defense for a weapon designed to end arguments is that they can kill someone else before they kill you? Less guns would mean less illegal guns. Especially through gun buy backs.

There are already more guns in the US than there are people. Gun control would do nothing to make it harder for criminals to obtain guns. All gun control would do would increase the supply of defenseless victims for criminals to prey on. Even Democrats know that when seconds count, the police are minutes (or hours) away. That's why they have conceded that gun control is largely lost. The good news is that you don't have to buy a gun if you don't want one.

Defenseless prey? How often does your home get broken into? The death stats from the other threads all show, that your chances of dying are higher in lax gun control states.

My home was broken into once recently and the invader fled when confronted by my wife who was armed and made that fact known.

Home invasions and violent home invasions are not rare in the US-

*A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries
and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.

*Simple assault (15%) was the most common form of violence when
a resident was home and violence occurred. Robbery (7%) and
rape (3%) were less likely to occur when a household member was
present and violence occurred.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

As I said, when seconds count the police are minutes away. The Democrats have largely abandoned gun control. You're not taking my weapons, nor are you taking anyone else's. Time to move on. Don't want a gun? Don't buy one.

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:13 pm

casinterest wrote:
And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

Sorry, but " 'hood" is the term used by the people who live there. It's not a racist thing. I grew up in Detroit and worked for the school system for 28 years, I know.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:20 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

Sorry, but " 'hood" is the term used by the people who live there. It's not a racist thing. I grew up in Detroit and worked for the school system for 28 years, I know.

And yet is was pushed forward as a racist item, and came to connotate such when red lining was in place.

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And using the word "hood" is part of the continued legacy that CRT seeks to explain.

Sorry, but " 'hood" is the term used by the people who live there. It's not a racist thing. I grew up in Detroit and worked for the school system for 28 years, I know.

And yet is was pushed forward as a racist item, and came to connotate such when red lining was in place.

Maybe YOU push it as a racist term. Is "crib" a racist term?

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:35 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Sorry, but " 'hood" is the term used by the people who live there. It's not a racist thing. I grew up in Detroit and worked for the school system for 28 years, I know.

And yet is was pushed forward as a racist item, and came to connotate such when red lining was in place.
Maybe YOU push it as a racist term. Is "crib" a racist term?

Yes, when used as a pejorative, which is how many racists/white nationalists like to use it. .

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:42 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

And yet is was pushed forward as a racist item, and came to connotate such when red lining was in place.
Maybe YOU push it as a racist term. Is "crib" a racist term?

Yes, when used as a pejorative, which is how many racists/white nationalists like to use it. .

Should I have been offended because a Black man called me the N word one time? BTW--He meant it as a compliment. It was a funny story.

bpatus297 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:44 pm

casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

Pretty small chance of death by a firearm (not suicide) when compared to 330M people in the US and other causes of death. Heck, its even lower than the flu, why are we not doing more to stop the other causes? I'm not saying we should ignore firearm related deaths, but its also not nearly as prominent as a lot of people would have you believe. I also think your chance is even lower if you are not involved in criminal behavior.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-tables-508.pdf

1 Diseases of heart . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I00–I09,I11,I13,I20–I51) 659,041 23.1 200.8
2 Malignant neoplasms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (C00–C97) 599,601 21.0 182.7
3 Accidents (unintentional injuries) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (V01–X59,Y85–Y86) 173,040 6.1 52.7
4 Chronic lower respiratory diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J40–J47) 156,979 5.5 47.8
5 Cerebrovascular diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I60–I69) 150,005 5.3 45.7
6 Alzheimer disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (G30) 121,499 4.3 37.0
7 Diabetes mellitus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (E10–E14) 87,647 3.1 26.7
8 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(N00–N07,N17–N19,N25–N27) 51,565 1.8 15.7
9 Influenza and pneumonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J09–J18) 49,783 1.7 15.2
10 Intentional self-harm (suicide) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (*U03,X60–X84,Y87.0) 47,511 1.7 14.5
… All other causes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (residual) 758,167 26.6 231.0

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:45 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Maybe YOU push it as a racist term. Is "crib" a racist term?

Yes, when used as a pejorative, which is how many racists/white nationalists like to use it. .
Should I have been offended because a Black man called me the N word one time? BTW--He meant it as a compliment. It was a funny story.

Was he using it pejoratively ?

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Yes, when used as a pejorative, which is how many racists/white nationalists like to use it. .
Should I have been offended because a Black man called me the N word one time? BTW--He meant it as a compliment. It was a funny story.

Was he using it pejoratively ?

I said that he meant it as a compliment. You figure it out.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:01 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Should I have been offended because a Black man called me the N word one time? BTW--He meant it as a compliment. It was a funny story.

Was he using it pejoratively ?
I said that he meant it as a compliment. You figure it out.

You asked if you should be offended. I wasn't sure if you knew?

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:27 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

Pretty small chance of death by a firearm (not suicide) when compared to 330M people in the US and other causes of death. Heck, its even lower than the flu, why are we not doing more to stop the other causes? I'm not saying we should ignore firearm related deaths, but its also not nearly as prominent as a lot of people would have you believe. I also think your chance is even lower if you are not involved in criminal behavior.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-tables-508.pdf

1 Diseases of heart . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I00–I09,I11,I13,I20–I51) 659,041 23.1 200.8
2 Malignant neoplasms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (C00–C97) 599,601 21.0 182.7
3 Accidents (unintentional injuries) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (V01–X59,Y85–Y86) 173,040 6.1 52.7
4 Chronic lower respiratory diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J40–J47) 156,979 5.5 47.8
5 Cerebrovascular diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I60–I69) 150,005 5.3 45.7
6 Alzheimer disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (G30) 121,499 4.3 37.0
7 Diabetes mellitus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (E10–E14) 87,647 3.1 26.7
8 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(N00–N07,N17–N19,N25–N27) 51,565 1.8 15.7
9 Influenza and pneumonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J09–J18) 49,783 1.7 15.2
10 Intentional self-harm (suicide) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (*U03,X60–X84,Y87.0) 47,511 1.7 14.5
… All other causes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (residual) 758,167 26.6 231.0

I'm curious as to why the poster you are quoting has seemingly skipped over posts that have actual facts and stats in them (yours and mine) and has moved onto a separate discussion with another poster. Seems as if the arguments for gun control fall apart when confronted with reality....probably why the Democrats realized that gun control is a losing issue for them.

bpatus297 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:59 pm

TriJets wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

Pretty small chance of death by a firearm (not suicide) when compared to 330M people in the US and other causes of death. Heck, its even lower than the flu, why are we not doing more to stop the other causes? I'm not saying we should ignore firearm related deaths, but its also not nearly as prominent as a lot of people would have you believe. I also think your chance is even lower if you are not involved in criminal behavior.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-tables-508.pdf

1 Diseases of heart . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I00–I09,I11,I13,I20–I51) 659,041 23.1 200.8
2 Malignant neoplasms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (C00–C97) 599,601 21.0 182.7
3 Accidents (unintentional injuries) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (V01–X59,Y85–Y86) 173,040 6.1 52.7
4 Chronic lower respiratory diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J40–J47) 156,979 5.5 47.8
5 Cerebrovascular diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I60–I69) 150,005 5.3 45.7
6 Alzheimer disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (G30) 121,499 4.3 37.0
7 Diabetes mellitus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (E10–E14) 87,647 3.1 26.7
8 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(N00–N07,N17–N19,N25–N27) 51,565 1.8 15.7
9 Influenza and pneumonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J09–J18) 49,783 1.7 15.2
10 Intentional self-harm (suicide) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (*U03,X60–X84,Y87.0) 47,511 1.7 14.5
… All other causes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (residual) 758,167 26.6 231.0

I'm curious as to why the poster you are quoting has seemingly skipped over posts that have actual facts and stats in them (yours and mine) and has moved onto a separate discussion with another poster. Seems as if the arguments for gun control fall apart when confronted with reality....probably why the Democrats realized that gun control is a losing issue for them.

Good question.

MaverickM11 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:18 pm

TriJets wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TriJets wrote:
More cars=more deaths. Ban cars.

Source: https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63899787.jpg

Not really. It is a perfect analogy. More of anything will lead to more misuse of that object.

Great so let's mandate insurance, licensing, usage limits, safety features, and all the things we apply to cars to guns. I'm sure you'll agree since it's the "perfect analogy", yes?

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:21 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Source: https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63899787.jpg

Not really. It is a perfect analogy. More of anything will lead to more misuse of that object.

Great so let's mandate insurance, licensing, usage limits, safety features, and all the things we apply to cars to guns. I'm sure you'll agree since it's the "perfect analogy", yes?

Most of those things cost money so they are not feasible as they would place an undue burden on the poor and would inhibit their access to their constitutionally protected rights. Also, given that a large proportion of gun crime is committed by criminals who aren't allowed to own guns in the first place and who simply wouldn't follow those regulations, the impact on overall gun crime would likely be minimal.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:22 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

Pretty small chance of death by a firearm (not suicide) when compared to 330M people in the US and other causes of death. Heck, its even lower than the flu, why are we not doing more to stop the other causes? I'm not saying we should ignore firearm related deaths, but its also not nearly as prominent as a lot of people would have you believe. I also think your chance is even lower if you are not involved in criminal behavior.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-tables-508.pdf

1 Diseases of heart . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I00–I09,I11,I13,I20–I51) 659,041 23.1 200.8
2 Malignant neoplasms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (C00–C97) 599,601 21.0 182.7
3 Accidents (unintentional injuries) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (V01–X59,Y85–Y86) 173,040 6.1 52.7
4 Chronic lower respiratory diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J40–J47) 156,979 5.5 47.8
5 Cerebrovascular diseases . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I60–I69) 150,005 5.3 45.7
6 Alzheimer disease . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (G30) 121,499 4.3 37.0
7 Diabetes mellitus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (E10–E14) 87,647 3.1 26.7
8 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(N00–N07,N17–N19,N25–N27) 51,565 1.8 15.7
9 Influenza and pneumonia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (J09–J18) 49,783 1.7 15.2
10 Intentional self-harm (suicide) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (*U03,X60–X84,Y87.0) 47,511 1.7 14.5
… All other causes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (residual) 758,167 26.6 231.0

I'm curious as to why the poster you are quoting has seemingly skipped over posts that have actual facts and stats in them (yours and mine) and has moved onto a separate discussion with another poster. Seems as if the arguments for gun control fall apart when confronted with reality....probably why the Democrats realized that gun control is a losing issue for them.

Good question.

Yes, but Gun deaths are preventable, and as posted by my stats keep going up with increasing gun sles. So honestly why keep promoting Gun safety when all that is occurring are more needless deaths.

MaverickM11 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:23 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

Here for the Self Defense gun lobby posters.

Strange that Death/Suicides/Injuries and MASS SHOOTING continue to rocket higher while

Self defense remains roughly flatlined.

More Guns= More deaths.

Pretty small chance of death by a firearm (not suicide) when compared to 330M people in the US and other causes of death. Heck, its even lower than the flu, why are we not doing more to stop the other causes?

We literally just witnessed conservatives absolutely lose what's left of their mind in trying to do the bare minimum to reduce covid deaths so...that's the answer to that.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
TriJets wrote:

I'm curious as to why the poster you are quoting has seemingly skipped over posts that have actual facts and stats in them (yours and mine) and has moved onto a separate discussion with another poster. Seems as if the arguments for gun control fall apart when confronted with reality....probably why the Democrats realized that gun control is a losing issue for them.

Good question.

Yes, but Gun deaths are preventable, and as posted by my stats keep going up with increasing gun sles. So honestly why keep promoting Gun safety when all that is occurring are more needless deaths.

A lot of deaths are preventable. You can prevent motor vehicle accidents by outlawing cars. You can prevent a lot of deaths from heart disease and diabetes by outlawing sugar and mandating that everyone eat MREs every day. You can prevent a lot of drownings by banning pools and restricting access to the ocean. But all of those examples would involve government overreach, just as many gun control proposals do.

At the end of the day in this country we have the freedom to look at the numbers and make an informed decision for ourselves.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:30 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

Good question.

Yes, but Gun deaths are preventable, and as posted by my stats keep going up with increasing gun sles. So honestly why keep promoting Gun safety when all that is occurring are more needless deaths.

A lot of deaths are preventable. You can prevent motor vehicle accidents by outlawing cars. You can prevent a lot of deaths from heart disease and diabetes by outlawing sugar and mandating that everyone eat MREs every day. You can prevent a lot of drownings by banning pools and restricting access to the ocean. But all of those examples would involve government overreach, just as many gun control proposals do.

At the end of the day in this country we have the freedom to look at the numbers and make an informed decision for ourselves.

No. In this country you have a responsibility to the people. You don't get to endanger others through ignorance. Government has a place to limit guns just as it has the ability to raise taxes to allow this country to function.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:37 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Yes, but Gun deaths are preventable, and as posted by my stats keep going up with increasing gun sles. So honestly why keep promoting Gun safety when all that is occurring are more needless deaths.

A lot of deaths are preventable. You can prevent motor vehicle accidents by outlawing cars. You can prevent a lot of deaths from heart disease and diabetes by outlawing sugar and mandating that everyone eat MREs every day. You can prevent a lot of drownings by banning pools and restricting access to the ocean. But all of those examples would involve government overreach, just as many gun control proposals do.

At the end of the day in this country we have the freedom to look at the numbers and make an informed decision for ourselves.

No. In this country you have a responsibility to the people. You don't get to endanger others through ignorance. Government has a place to limit guns just as it has the ability to raise taxes to allow this country to function.

Constitution says otherwise. Sorry. If you don't want a gun you don't have to buy one.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:51 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:

A lot of deaths are preventable. You can prevent motor vehicle accidents by outlawing cars. You can prevent a lot of deaths from heart disease and diabetes by outlawing sugar and mandating that everyone eat MREs every day. You can prevent a lot of drownings by banning pools and restricting access to the ocean. But all of those examples would involve government overreach, just as many gun control proposals do.

At the end of the day in this country we have the freedom to look at the numbers and make an informed decision for ourselves.

No. In this country you have a responsibility to the people. You don't get to endanger others through ignorance. Government has a place to limit guns just as it has the ability to raise taxes to allow this country to function.

Constitution says otherwise. Sorry. If you don't want a gun you don't have to buy one.

The constitution is not a death pact, and guns are not to be banned. Just reduced in sales and availability.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

No. In this country you have a responsibility to the people. You don't get to endanger others through ignorance. Government has a place to limit guns just as it has the ability to raise taxes to allow this country to function.

Constitution says otherwise. Sorry. If you don't want a gun you don't have to buy one.

The constitution is not a death pact, and guns are not to be banned. Just reduced in sales and availability.

There is a process to change (amend) the Constitution. There is also an essentially zero percent chance of that happening regarding the second. You don't have to buy a gun if you don't want to, but you are absolutely not going to deprive me and other law abiding citizens of the ability to protect ourselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:01 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Great so let's mandate insurance, licensing, usage limits, safety features, and all the things we apply to cars to guns. I'm sure you'll agree since it's the "perfect analogy", yes?

Actually, that's what Shirley Jackson-Lee's bill would do. It also says the gun owner needs to pay $800 "insurance" annually, to the government.
https://ktrh.iheart.com/featured/michae ... trol-plan/

ReverseFlow · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:20 pm

The 2nd says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

How is the Militia defined? As you could interpret it that only as part of a Militia could you bear Arms?
As otherwise what's the point of the Militia?
As that sentence doesn't make much sense.

Or is the meaning:
- A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed
- The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:33 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
The 2nd says:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

How is the Militia defined? As you could interpret it that only as part of a Militia could you bear Arms?
As otherwise what's the point of the Militia?
As that sentence doesn't make much sense.

Or is the meaning:
- A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, shall not be infringed
- The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

The meaning has been established by the SCOTUS in DC vs Heller. Your second interpretation of the meaning is the one that is accepted.

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Was he using it pejoratively ?
I said that he meant it as a compliment. You figure it out.

You asked if you should be offended. I wasn't sure if you knew?

No, I took it in the manner it was offered. Here's the story---I was a warehouse supervisor in the DPS supply warehouse. Every summer, in addition to our regular workers, we would bring in a bunch of day laborers so that all the supplies would be in the schools for the start of the school year. One year, a couple of the day workers were "sullen" every time that I assigned them work. One day Kenny, a regular who I'd worked with for years, came up to me and said that they had told him that they didn't like taking orders from a "white boy". Kenny told them that they were not to mess with me because I "wasn't anything but another n****r like everyone else.". Both these guys were in the 6'2", 200lbs range. I'm 5'8" and 155lbs. Let me tell you about Kenny. He played offensive tackle in college and was 6'3" and 300lbs with a great sense of humor. I'm not sure how he told them "not to mess with me" but after that, their attitude was greatly improved. He didn't tell me, and I didn't ask, but I'm sure there was an undertone of threat there.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:39 pm

TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:

Constitution says otherwise. Sorry. If you don't want a gun you don't have to buy one.

The constitution is not a death pact, and guns are not to be banned. Just reduced in sales and availability.

There is a process to change (amend) the Constitution. There is also an essentially zero percent chance of that happening regarding the second. You don't have to buy a gun if you don't want to, but you are absolutely not going to deprive me and other law abiding citizens of the ability to protect ourselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

So people that live in fear and paranoia of an event that is so unlikely are the ones that tend to hold the guns most closely. That right there, is the problem.

TriJets · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
TriJets wrote:
casinterest wrote:

The constitution is not a death pact, and guns are not to be banned. Just reduced in sales and availability.

There is a process to change (amend) the Constitution. There is also an essentially zero percent chance of that happening regarding the second. You don't have to buy a gun if you don't want to, but you are absolutely not going to deprive me and other law abiding citizens of the ability to protect ourselves. When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

So people that live in fear and paranoia of an event that is so unlikely are the ones that tend to hold the guns most closely. That right there, is the problem.

I posted the numbers earlier and you ignored them. There are over a million home invasions annually, and 250,000 people are victims of a violent crime during home invasions each year. My family was one of them. It seems as if you are living in fear and paranoia of an event that is much less likely to happen than a home invasion. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. You may choose to be defenseless. That's ok. You're not making my choice for me.

johns624 · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:48 pm

casinterest wrote:

So people that live in fear and paranoia of an event that is so unlikely are the ones that tend to hold the guns most closely. That right there, is the problem.

That's just a stereotype. I worked in a large gunstore/range until two years ago that sold 6000+ firearms a year. A very large percentage could be described as minorities and sexes that you wouldn't normally think of as "gun people". They live in the rough neighborhoods and know exactly why they want a gun.

casinterest · Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:53 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So people that live in fear and paranoia of an event that is so unlikely are the ones that tend to hold the guns most closely. That right there, is the problem.
That's just a stereotype. I worked in a large gunstore/range until two years ago that sold 6000+ firearms a year. A very large percentage could be described as minorities and sexes that you wouldn't normally think of as "gun people". They live in the rough neighborhoods and know exactly why they want a gun.

Paranoia and fear by your own example.

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