afcjets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Nor is using out of context videos to smear an entire group as pedophiles new--which mind you isn't even the first time conservatives have painted all LGBTQ/blacks/Muslims/whatever-republicans-are-afraid-of-today-people as threats to children. I'm old enough to have lived through y'all doing it at least twice, which is a reminder conservatives have always been and will always be vicious homophobes, particularly since the vast majority of child abuse happens at home--or church!

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

bpatus297 wrote:

afcjets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Nor is using out of context videos to smear an entire group as pedophiles new--which mind you isn't even the first time conservatives have painted all LGBTQ/blacks/Muslims/whatever-republicans-are-afraid-of-today-people as threats to children. I'm old enough to have lived through y'all doing it at least twice, which is a reminder conservatives have always been and will always be vicious homophobes, particularly since the vast majority of child abuse happens at home--or church!

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

No not all Republicans are racist. But welcome to the LGBT world where you're painted with equally broad and disparaging strokes and children have to be protected from you because you're icky and the "suck it up, buttercup" crowd suddenly turns snowflake and wants to plug their ears with their fingers and pretend. Perhaps we all have an opportunity here to acknowledge that about each other...

luckyone wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

afcjets wrote:

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

No not all Republicans are racist. But welcome to the LGBT world where you're painted with equally broad and disparaging strokes and children have to be protected from you because you're icky and the "suck it up, buttercup" crowd suddenly turns snowflake and wants to plug their ears with their fingers and pretend. Perhaps we all have an opportunity here to acknowledge that about each other...

I was taught as a child to judge every individual on their own merits, and I try really hard to live by that. Pretty simple, not sure why its so hard for everyone else to do it too on both sides of the aisle. I'm not perfect, but I try. I'll also add this, just because someone has a different opinion than me, doesn't make them evil or even wrong. Everyone has different experiences that shapes their opinions. We should all listen to each other to learn, the world world be a different place if we did.

afcjets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Nor is using out of context videos to smear an entire group as pedophiles new--which mind you isn't even the first time conservatives have painted all LGBTQ/blacks/Muslims/whatever-republicans-are-afraid-of-today-people as threats to children. I'm old enough to have lived through y'all doing it at least twice, which is a reminder conservatives have always been and will always be vicious homophobes, particularly since the vast majority of child abuse happens at home--or church!

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

I'm not "smearing" all conservatives as vicious homophobes--they *are* homophobes. Look at your history, your platform, and what you're doing *yet again* today--it's not even new bigotry. It's warmed over Anita Bryant "save our children" nonsense from the 70s.

MaverickM11 wrote:

afcjets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Nor is using out of context videos to smear an entire group as pedophiles new--which mind you isn't even the first time conservatives have painted all LGBTQ/blacks/Muslims/whatever-republicans-are-afraid-of-today-people as threats to children. I'm old enough to have lived through y'all doing it at least twice, which is a reminder conservatives have always been and will always be vicious homophobes, particularly since the vast majority of child abuse happens at home--or church!

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

I'm not "smearing" all conservatives as vicious homophobes--they *are* homophobes. Look at your history, your platform, and what you're doing *yet again* today--it's not even new bigotry. It's warmed over Anita Bryant "save our children" nonsense from the 70s.

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

bpatus297 wrote:

afcjets wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

Nor is using out of context videos to smear an entire group as pedophiles new--which mind you isn't even the first time conservatives have painted all LGBTQ/blacks/Muslims/whatever-republicans-are-afraid-of-today-people as threats to children. I'm old enough to have lived through y'all doing it at least twice, which is a reminder conservatives have always been and will always be vicious homophobes, particularly since the vast majority of child abuse happens at home--or church!

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

LOL "Please ignore our cross country purges of all non white books, our armada of confederate flags, our banning of teaching black history, and regular whinging about white replacement theory--it has nothing to do with race. It's economic anxiety!"

bpatus297 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

afcjets wrote:

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

I'm not "smearing" all conservatives as vicious homophobes--they *are* homophobes. Look at your history, your platform, and what you're doing *yet again* today--it's not even new bigotry. It's warmed over Anita Bryant "save our children" nonsense from the 70s.

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Yah no. That's not how homophobia works; simply pointing out doesn't 'contribute to the problem'. These "don't say gay" laws in many places was adding to and/or replacing laws that were already on the books

At least 20 states have introduced “Don’t Say Gay” laws this year. But in a handful of states, versions of the legislation have existed for decades.

https://19thnews.org/2022/04/dont-say-g ... bama-laws/

"Since 1992, Alabama’s education code stipulated that teachers emphasize “in a factual manner and from a public health perspective, that homosexuality is not a lifestyle acceptable to the general public and that homosexual conduct is a criminal offense under the laws of the state.”"

" In Texas, the state code still stipulates that educational materials for people under the age of 18 “state that homosexual conduct is not an acceptable lifestyle and is a criminal offense.” "

What do you call that?

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

einsteinboricua wrote:

The thing here is that any effects won't become apparent until a few years down the road. DeSantis is up for reelection this November and all he will care about is showing the national electorate that he managed to win reelection in a swingy red state and can therefore deliver the White House to Republicans come election 2024. Voters everywhere have short term memories. Even when the damage becomes apparent, he'll pass a "tax cut" to brandish even further conservative credentials. If reelected this year, he'll be out of office by 2026 and as such doesn't have to worry about anything else. If he wins the White House, he has other items to content with rather than his record as FL governor. If he loses his bid, he's term limited anyway. He could attempt to primary Rubio in 2028 or run for Scott's seat if he decides to retire, but bottom line is that he likely won't care about the damage done.

Desantis is playing politics. However as we have seen the politic boomerang can hit hard and sharp. Look at McCarthy and McConnell. They abandoned holding Trump responsible for Jan 6 , and now they are being painted as liars and traitors as more evidence shows that 1. Trump was guilty, and 2. The GOP congress had a lot of complicit members, and 3. They decided to play politics instead of integrity and country. That boomerang may serve Desantis well in his Florida ambitions, but it will not serve him on the National scale.

It remains to be seen where a lot of that will land. I agree though, DeSantis is making a national play that will like score points with voters for whom economics goes over their head (fun fact, Disney taxed themselves higher than they would’ve paid to the local taxman. Have fun paying that bill). That will likely play well nationally too, though at what corporate dollar cost now that he has gone there and attacked the real source of money. By that time Disney will likely have prevailed in court — even Miss Obsequiousness 2020 Jenna Ellis has said that. Having said all that, his real concern needs to be Trump. Trump is precisely the kind of guy who will stab him in the back if he thinks DeSantis will take some of his spotlight, or if he wants to run again. Then DeSantis is shtupped.

The GOP is trying to go as right wing as possible, and Desantis is leading the charge. The issue is that at the end of the day ,the more people that they attack, the less people will support the party. In Florida where people trend older due to retirement living, it plays well. However on a National scale Desantis's attacks are going to cost the GOP in 2022 and 2024. The Electorate showed that as a plurality they did not like Trump in 2016 and 2020. 2024 will be no different, especially with all the social issues being launched to the forefront. A party built on lies and the abandonment of free speech and business may do well initially, but when everyone starts to look and realize that there is no integrity backing these issues. It will be painful when the elections come.

casinterest wrote:

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Desantis is playing politics. However as we have seen the politic boomerang can hit hard and sharp. Look at McCarthy and McConnell. They abandoned holding Trump responsible for Jan 6 , and now they are being painted as liars and traitors as more evidence shows that 1. Trump was guilty, and 2. The GOP congress had a lot of complicit members, and 3. They decided to play politics instead of integrity and country. That boomerang may serve Desantis well in his Florida ambitions, but it will not serve him on the National scale.

It remains to be seen where a lot of that will land. I agree though, DeSantis is making a national play that will like score points with voters for whom economics goes over their head (fun fact, Disney taxed themselves higher than they would’ve paid to the local taxman. Have fun paying that bill). That will likely play well nationally too, though at what corporate dollar cost now that he has gone there and attacked the real source of money. By that time Disney will likely have prevailed in court — even Miss Obsequiousness 2020 Jenna Ellis has said that. Having said all that, his real concern needs to be Trump. Trump is precisely the kind of guy who will stab him in the back if he thinks DeSantis will take some of his spotlight, or if he wants to run again. Then DeSantis is shtupped.

The GOP is trying to go as right wing as possible, and Desantis is leading the charge. The issue is that at the end of the day ,the more people that they attack, the less people will support the party. In Florida where people trend older due to retirement living, it plays well. However on a National scale Desantis's attacks are going to cost the GOP in 2022 and 2024. The Electorate showed that as a plurality they did not like Trump in 2016 and 2020. 2024 will be no different, especially with all the social issues being launched to the forefront. A party built on lies and the abandonment of free speech and business may do well initially, but when everyone starts to look and realize that there is no integrity backing these issues. It will be painful when the elections come.

I will agree with you there. DeSantis handed the Democrats free midterm fodder.

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

luckyone wrote:

It remains to be seen where a lot of that will land. I agree though, DeSantis is making a national play that will like score points with voters for whom economics goes over their head (fun fact, Disney taxed themselves higher than they would’ve paid to the local taxman. Have fun paying that bill). That will likely play well nationally too, though at what corporate dollar cost now that he has gone there and attacked the real source of money. By that time Disney will likely have prevailed in court — even Miss Obsequiousness 2020 Jenna Ellis has said that. Having said all that, his real concern needs to be Trump. Trump is precisely the kind of guy who will stab him in the back if he thinks DeSantis will take some of his spotlight, or if he wants to run again. Then DeSantis is shtupped.

The GOP is trying to go as right wing as possible, and Desantis is leading the charge. The issue is that at the end of the day ,the more people that they attack, the less people will support the party. In Florida where people trend older due to retirement living, it plays well. However on a National scale Desantis's attacks are going to cost the GOP in 2022 and 2024. The Electorate showed that as a plurality they did not like Trump in 2016 and 2020. 2024 will be no different, especially with all the social issues being launched to the forefront. A party built on lies and the abandonment of free speech and business may do well initially, but when everyone starts to look and realize that there is no integrity backing these issues. It will be painful when the elections come.

I will agree with you there. DeSantis handed the Democrats free midterm fodder.

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

afcjets wrote:

[...] and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Why not?

Teaching is teaching: Readin', Ritin', n', 'Rithmatics. Where do you get enforcing a child to say what you want about how they describe themselves?

Tugg

MaverickM11 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

afcjets wrote:

The most ironic thing about this post is you present an argument with strawmen (as in more than one) saying conservatives are smearing an entire group (which they're not) yet your doing exactly that by smearing all conservatives as "vicious homophobes". Sorry, kids are sent to school for kids, not for teachers' self expression, and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

LOL "Please ignore our cross country purges of all non white books, our armada of confederate flags, our banning of teaching black history, and regular whinging about white replacement theory--it has nothing to do with race. It's economic anxiety!"

bpatus297 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

I'm not "smearing" all conservatives as vicious homophobes--they *are* homophobes. Look at your history, your platform, and what you're doing *yet again* today--it's not even new bigotry. It's warmed over Anita Bryant "save our children" nonsense from the 70s.

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Yah no. That's not how homophobia works; simply pointing out doesn't 'contribute to the problem'. These "don't say gay" laws in many places was adding to and/or replacing laws that were already on the books

At least 20 states have introduced “Don’t Say Gay” laws this year. But in a handful of states, versions of the legislation have existed for decades.

https://19thnews.org/2022/04/dont-say-g ... bama-laws/

"Since 1992, Alabama’s education code stipulated that teachers emphasize “in a factual manner and from a public health perspective, that homosexuality is not a lifestyle acceptable to the general public and that homosexual conduct is a criminal offense under the laws of the state.”"

" In Texas, the state code still stipulates that educational materials for people under the age of 18 “state that homosexual conduct is not an acceptable lifestyle and is a criminal offense.” "

What do you call that?

I'm not talking about calling out homophobia, I am talking about your blank statements that all Republicans are homophobic.

phluser wrote:

luckyone wrote:

casinterest wrote:

The GOP is trying to go as right wing as possible, and Desantis is leading the charge. The issue is that at the end of the day ,the more people that they attack, the less people will support the party. In Florida where people trend older due to retirement living, it plays well. However on a National scale Desantis's attacks are going to cost the GOP in 2022 and 2024. The Electorate showed that as a plurality they did not like Trump in 2016 and 2020. 2024 will be no different, especially with all the social issues being launched to the forefront. A party built on lies and the abandonment of free speech and business may do well initially, but when everyone starts to look and realize that there is no integrity backing these issues. It will be painful when the elections come.

I will agree with you there. DeSantis handed the Democrats free midterm fodder.

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

Biden/Harris are doing well leading. Inflation/Gas prices are a world wide issue, not something isolated to the US. Folks that don't watch right wing sites understand the nuances. Unfortuately we still have a lot of under educated folks that hang on the worlds of paid liars such as Carlson, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, and a host of other disgraces on right wing sites, that just blame people for issues.


The GOP is probably going to piss a lot of people off coming out of the primaries as they have to come to terms with the Trump damage to the party, and competing messages against big business and citizens, and the increasing partition controlled by racists and right wing Christian nationalists.

Tugger wrote:

afcjets wrote:

[...] and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Why not?

Teaching is teaching: Readin', Ritin', n', 'Rithmatics. Where do you get enforcing a child to say what you want about how they describe themselves?

Tugg

I never said that, I said it's no place for a preschool teacher to encourage preschoolers to use different pronouns and genders to describe themselves.

afcjets wrote:

Tugger wrote:

afcjets wrote:

[...] and definitely not for them to be encouraged to experiment with different genders and pronouns in preschool.

Why not?

Teaching is teaching: Readin', Ritin', n', 'Rithmatics. Where do you get enforcing a child to say what you want about how they describe themselves?

Tugg

I never said that, I said it's no place for a preschool teacher to encourage preschoolers to use different pronouns and genders to describe themselves.

Why blame the teacher?> At that age it is more likely going to be be the parents.

afcjets wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Second, the "Don't Say Gay" bill is addressing a problem that never existed. Literally no teacher anywhere was teaching K-3 students about sex or sexual orientation. Even though teachers are not nor have ever taught children that young about sex and gender, I think we can all agree on that.

Unfortunately the problem does exist and the bill is necessary...

From the liberals of TikTok:

"TEACHER: Hi, my name is -- and I'm a preschool teacher. Recently, we started wearing pronoun pins and the kids get to pick a new pronoun pin every day. We have some that pick she/her every single day and we have some that change it up.

TEACHER: So, I'm a non-binary preschool teacher and my kids know I’m non-binary. They know I'm not a girl or a boy. I use they/them pronouns in the classroom. We work on it. Not all kids get it. That's OK and I go by Mx Gray in the classroom, not Miss or Mister.

TEACHER: Man, y'all thought me teaching the children about me being poly was crazy, but not only that, but they also know that I'm gender-fluid.

TEACHER: I'm going to give you my explanation about what it means to be transgender as well. So, when babies are born, the doctor looks at them, and they make a guess about whether the baby is a boy or a girl. "

You can watch the videos beginning at 1:25 and see for yourself.

https://youtu.be/q-nMlMU48wI

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker- ... gn-twitter

Posting a link to some satirical TikTok subscriber proves zilch. This does not happen in classrooms. Teachers have to be very careful about what they teach because the parents will sue if the teacher mentions feelings or race or history or some other snowflakey thing that gets these conservatives outraged.

This is about cancelling public education. That is the bigger picture. All this fake outrage over teachers teaching gay sex in the classroom is meaningless. The real prize is shutting down public schools so the right can indoctrinate children to be good little far right wingers.

EDIT:

I grew up in far right wing, evangelical eastern Oregon during the 1980s and the AIDS crisis. Even with all the lies being pumped out by the right over gays in the 1980s and the heterosexual lifestyle being forced on me every day, I still turned out gay. No teacher at all taught anyone about gay sex or being kind or BLM or anything like that. Yet, here we are. This whole right wing outrage over this just shows the need for critical thinking skills and the need to call out this waste of time and taxpayer money.

bpatus297 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

LOL "Please ignore our cross country purges of all non white books, our armada of confederate flags, our banning of teaching black history, and regular whinging about white replacement theory--it has nothing to do with race. It's economic anxiety!"

bpatus297 wrote:

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Yah no. That's not how homophobia works; simply pointing out doesn't 'contribute to the problem'. These "don't say gay" laws in many places was adding to and/or replacing laws that were already on the books

At least 20 states have introduced “Don’t Say Gay” laws this year. But in a handful of states, versions of the legislation have existed for decades.

https://19thnews.org/2022/04/dont-say-g ... bama-laws/

"Since 1992, Alabama’s education code stipulated that teachers emphasize “in a factual manner and from a public health perspective, that homosexuality is not a lifestyle acceptable to the general public and that homosexual conduct is a criminal offense under the laws of the state.”"

" In Texas, the state code still stipulates that educational materials for people under the age of 18 “state that homosexual conduct is not an acceptable lifestyle and is a criminal offense.” "

What do you call that?

I'm not talking about calling out homophobia, I am talking about your blank statements that all Republicans are homophobic.

It is impossible to separate the republicans from the platform

bpatus297 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Didn't you get the memo? It's okay to stereotype and call all Republicans racist.

LOL "Please ignore our cross country purges of all non white books, our armada of confederate flags, our banning of teaching black history, and regular whinging about white replacement theory--it has nothing to do with race. It's economic anxiety!"

bpatus297 wrote:

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Yah no. That's not how homophobia works; simply pointing out doesn't 'contribute to the problem'. These "don't say gay" laws in many places was adding to and/or replacing laws that were already on the books

At least 20 states have introduced “Don’t Say Gay” laws this year. But in a handful of states, versions of the legislation have existed for decades.

https://19thnews.org/2022/04/dont-say-g ... bama-laws/

"Since 1992, Alabama’s education code stipulated that teachers emphasize “in a factual manner and from a public health perspective, that homosexuality is not a lifestyle acceptable to the general public and that homosexual conduct is a criminal offense under the laws of the state.”"

" In Texas, the state code still stipulates that educational materials for people under the age of 18 “state that homosexual conduct is not an acceptable lifestyle and is a criminal offense.” "

What do you call that?

I'm not talking about calling out homophobia, I am talking about your blank statements that all Republicans are homophobic.

Not all are, but there are certainly a number of states where if you support the party or the governor, you're tacitly supporting homophobia. Just like the charge can be leveled at many Dems to stop attacking the wealthy just for being wealthy, many conservatives need to stop attacking others simply for being different than church or Steve from Steve Miller's Dodge Superstore says things ought to be.

Aaron747 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

LOL "Please ignore our cross country purges of all non white books, our armada of confederate flags, our banning of teaching black history, and regular whinging about white replacement theory--it has nothing to do with race. It's economic anxiety!"


Yah no. That's not how homophobia works; simply pointing out doesn't 'contribute to the problem'. These "don't say gay" laws in many places was adding to and/or replacing laws that were already on the books

At least 20 states have introduced “Don’t Say Gay” laws this year. But in a handful of states, versions of the legislation have existed for decades.

https://19thnews.org/2022/04/dont-say-g ... bama-laws/

"Since 1992, Alabama’s education code stipulated that teachers emphasize “in a factual manner and from a public health perspective, that homosexuality is not a lifestyle acceptable to the general public and that homosexual conduct is a criminal offense under the laws of the state.”"

" In Texas, the state code still stipulates that educational materials for people under the age of 18 “state that homosexual conduct is not an acceptable lifestyle and is a criminal offense.” "

What do you call that?

I'm not talking about calling out homophobia, I am talking about your blank statements that all Republicans are homophobic.

Not all are, but there are certainly a number of states where if you support the party or the governor, you're tacitly supporting homophobia. Just like the charge can be leveled at many Dems to stop attacking the wealthy just for being wealthy, many conservatives need to stop attacking others simply for being different than church or Steve from Steve Miller's Dodge Superstore says things ought to be.

We have mid-term primaries coming. They are partisan. Fine. But, some positions are non-partisan. One is the county clerk. She says she wants "free and fair" elections and no mail in ballots and only vote in person. The Oregon DMV triple checks voter registrations so that NO ILLEGALS AT ALL EVER!!! vote but it is now a talking point, somehow. But, it panders to the base. These "I do my own research" types will vote for her, for some reason.

I think we are checking the wrong people to be eligible to vote but whatever....

Tax Lawyers seem to think that the GOP in Florida is incompetent's and has put the State citizens at risk of higher taxes, as well as not having full faith in the word of the Government.


https://theweek.com/ron-desantis/101299 ... ict-disney

If Florida gets around its pledge — and "states usually aren't in the business of arguing that their own promises are bad," Schumer writes — Disney's bond obligations would fall to Orange and Osceola counties, raising taxes on residents.

DeSantis claimed Monday that "under no circumstances will Disney not pay its fair share of taxes," and "under no circumstances will Disney not pay its debts." But in fact, "Disney has more power now to determine its tax bill than it did a week ago," Orange County tax collector Scott Randolph tells the Herald. "That's what's crazy to me. They want to punish Disney, but this is the furthest thing from that."

However it is all good for Ron and company as they have raised much money from donors who wish to reward them for screwing over US citizens constitutional rights.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... g-records/

But for DeSantis, going against Disney has paid off.

On one day alone last month, when his campaign sent out its first fundraising email chastising Disney, his candidate account received nearly 950 small donations of $100 or less, totaling around $30,000. Five days later, when his campaign sent a second Disney-bashing donation request, people opened their wallets more than 500 times to give in small increments, adding up to another roughly $18,000.

Campaign finance records show many of these donors live outside Florida, with addresses from all corners of the country, including Ohio, Massachusetts, Washington, California, Texas, New York, Colorado, Louisiana, North Carolina and more.

casinterest wrote:

Tax Lawyers seem to think that the GOP in Florida is incompetent's and has put the State citizens at risk of higher taxes, as well as not having full faith in the word of the Government.


https://theweek.com/ron-desantis/101299 ... ict-disney

If Florida gets around its pledge — and "states usually aren't in the business of arguing that their own promises are bad," Schumer writes — Disney's bond obligations would fall to Orange and Osceola counties, raising taxes on residents.

DeSantis claimed Monday that "under no circumstances will Disney not pay its fair share of taxes," and "under no circumstances will Disney not pay its debts." But in fact, "Disney has more power now to determine its tax bill than it did a week ago," Orange County tax collector Scott Randolph tells the Herald. "That's what's crazy to me. They want to punish Disney, but this is the furthest thing from that."

However it is all good for Ron and company as they have raised much money from donors who wish to reward them for screwing over US citizens constitutional rights.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... g-records/

But for DeSantis, going against Disney has paid off.

On one day alone last month, when his campaign sent out its first fundraising email chastising Disney, his candidate account received nearly 950 small donations of $100 or less, totaling around $30,000. Five days later, when his campaign sent a second Disney-bashing donation request, people opened their wallets more than 500 times to give in small increments, adding up to another roughly $18,000.

Campaign finance records show many of these donors live outside Florida, with addresses from all corners of the country, including Ohio, Massachusetts, Washington, California, Texas, New York, Colorado, Louisiana, North Carolina and more.

I’ll be giving him some money and I don’t live in Florida.

tomaheath wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Tax Lawyers seem to think that the GOP in Florida is incompetent's and has put the State citizens at risk of higher taxes, as well as not having full faith in the word of the Government.


https://theweek.com/ron-desantis/101299 ... ict-disney

If Florida gets around its pledge — and "states usually aren't in the business of arguing that their own promises are bad," Schumer writes — Disney's bond obligations would fall to Orange and Osceola counties, raising taxes on residents.

DeSantis claimed Monday that "under no circumstances will Disney not pay its fair share of taxes," and "under no circumstances will Disney not pay its debts." But in fact, "Disney has more power now to determine its tax bill than it did a week ago," Orange County tax collector Scott Randolph tells the Herald. "That's what's crazy to me. They want to punish Disney, but this is the furthest thing from that."

However it is all good for Ron and company as they have raised much money from donors who wish to reward them for screwing over US citizens constitutional rights.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... g-records/

But for DeSantis, going against Disney has paid off.

On one day alone last month, when his campaign sent out its first fundraising email chastising Disney, his candidate account received nearly 950 small donations of $100 or less, totaling around $30,000. Five days later, when his campaign sent a second Disney-bashing donation request, people opened their wallets more than 500 times to give in small increments, adding up to another roughly $18,000.

Campaign finance records show many of these donors live outside Florida, with addresses from all corners of the country, including Ohio, Massachusetts, Washington, California, Texas, New York, Colorado, Louisiana, North Carolina and more.

I’ll be giving him some money and I don’t live in Florida.

Can you explain why you would waste money on an Anti American Racist Bigot ? Do you want the US to wind up like Iran?

The governors' supporters nationwide will not be deterred that the law passed ending Disney World's status was not vetted by anyone competent to determine its consequences. Govern by tweet, govern by tantrum, govern by fiat, so long as it has a ultra rightwing flavor to it, it's just OK by them.

scbriml wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Can you explain why you would waste money on an Anti American Racist Bigot ? Do you want the US to wind up like Iran?

You know what they say about a fool and his money.

Thanks for the kind words.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

The governors' supporters nationwide will not be deterred that the law passed ending Disney World's status was not vetted by anyone competent to determine its consequences. Govern by tweet, govern by tantrum, govern by fiat, so long as it has a ultra rightwing flavor to it, it's just OK by them.

There was an interesting poll today that does explain a lot about why the Don't say Gay and Anti-CRT bills are so popular with republicans and why people like Desantis, Abbbott, Trump, and most of the GOP elected leadership want to silence dissent from Big Business.

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch ... 8717765778

casinterest wrote:

phluser wrote:

luckyone wrote:

I will agree with you there. DeSantis handed the Democrats free midterm fodder.

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

Biden/Harris are doing well leading. Inflation/Gas prices are a world wide issue, not something isolated to the US. Folks that don't watch right wing sites understand the nuances. Unfortuately we still have a lot of under educated folks that hang on the worlds of paid liars such as Carlson, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, and a host of other disgraces on right wing sites, that just blame people for issues.


The GOP is probably going to piss a lot of people off coming out of the primaries as they have to come to terms with the Trump damage to the party, and competing messages against big business and citizens, and the increasing partition controlled by racists and right wing Christian nationalists.

Everyone has noticed high gas and food prices, as well as other costs or prices that have gone up, such as cost of a new or used car. They don't care if it's happening around the world but will blame the current administration/Democrats that it's happening in the US.

Folks don't need to watch right wing news to know that. And clips of Biden and Harris in front of audiences are floating are all over youtube not just traditional right wing sources. The Democratic Party's choice to mandate vaccines, constantly go back to masking and keeping covid fear present, and Biden getting vindictive over the unvaccinated has turned off some Democrats who voted for Biden. It's not just rural Trump Republicans that didn't want to be vaccinated.

Granted, right wing news does also emphasize that crime is up and illegal immigrants through the border, and Democrats seem to be attributed to it.

The Democrats have to hope to hold on to the Senate. They need Manchin and Sinema and the Democratic House and Senate to vote for a mini build back better bill.

Best case scenario, I think they can potentially flip the PA Senate seat with John Fetterman, even though he is a Progressive. In OH, Tim Ryan could have an appeal over JD Vance, but the state leans more red than it did in the past.

The Democrats might lose seats but I'm unsure which ones are more vulnerable, so winning PA is key if losing a seat elsewhere is likely.

I don't think Val Demings has any chance to flip Rubio's seat in Florida, She should have been chosen over Harris to be VP. The candidate Mandela Barnes that Elizabeth Warren endorsed in WI has very little experience and I can't imagine that race as competitive for the Democrats. There are a few other interesting races to watch, Missouri and Utah, but they seem most likely to stay Republican.

phluser wrote:

casinterest wrote:

phluser wrote:

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

Biden/Harris are doing well leading. Inflation/Gas prices are a world wide issue, not something isolated to the US. Folks that don't watch right wing sites understand the nuances. Unfortuately we still have a lot of under educated folks that hang on the worlds of paid liars such as Carlson, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, and a host of other disgraces on right wing sites, that just blame people for issues.


The GOP is probably going to piss a lot of people off coming out of the primaries as they have to come to terms with the Trump damage to the party, and competing messages against big business and citizens, and the increasing partition controlled by racists and right wing Christian nationalists.

Everyone has noticed high gas and food prices, as well as other costs or prices that have gone up, such as cost of a new or used car. They don't care if it's happening around the world but will blame the current administration/Democrats that it's happening in the US.

Folks don't need to watch right wing news to know that. And clips of Biden and Harris in front of audiences are floating are all over youtube not just traditional right wing sources. The Democratic Party's choice to mandate vaccines, constantly go back to masking and keeping covid fear present, and Biden getting vindictive over the unvaccinated has turned off some Democrats who voted for Biden. It's not just rural Trump Republicans that didn't want to be vaccinated.

Granted, right wing news does also emphasize that crime is up and illegal immigrants through the border, and Democrats seem to be attributed to it.

The Democrats have to hope to hold on to the Senate. They need Manchin and Sinema and the Democratic House and Senate to vote for a mini build back better bill.

Best case scenario, I think they can potentially flip the PA Senate seat with John Fetterman, even though he is a Progressive. In OH, Tim Ryan could have an appeal over JD Vance, but the state leans more red than it did in the past.

The Democrats might lose seats but I'm unsure which ones are more vulnerable, so winning PA is key if losing a seat elsewhere is likely.

I don't think Val Demings has any chance to flip Rubio's seat in Florida, She should have been chosen over Harris to be VP. The candidate Mandela Barnes that Elizabeth Warren endorsed in WI has very little experience and I can't imagine that race as competitive for the Democrats. There are a few other interesting races to watch, Missouri and Utah, but they seem most likely to stay Republican.

The issue is that we have an uninformed electorate in the GOP that thinks they are owning the libs, when all they are doing is owning themselves. They continue to lose medical care, talent, and jobs as companies and people leave to the city. Right wing news sources play up lies to make them feel better, but the lies about inflation, crime and a host of other items are due to items affecting everyone.

phluser wrote:

casinterest wrote:

phluser wrote:

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

Biden/Harris are doing well leading. Inflation/Gas prices are a world wide issue, not something isolated to the US. Folks that don't watch right wing sites understand the nuances. Unfortuately we still have a lot of under educated folks that hang on the worlds of paid liars such as Carlson, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, and a host of other disgraces on right wing sites, that just blame people for issues.


The GOP is probably going to piss a lot of people off coming out of the primaries as they have to come to terms with the Trump damage to the party, and competing messages against big business and citizens, and the increasing partition controlled by racists and right wing Christian nationalists.

Everyone has noticed high gas and food prices, as well as other costs or prices that have gone up, such as cost of a new or used car. They don't care if it's happening around the world but will blame the current administration/Democrats that it's happening in the US.

Folks don't need to watch right wing news to know that. And clips of Biden and Harris in front of audiences are floating are all over youtube not just traditional right wing sources. The Democratic Party's choice to mandate vaccines, constantly go back to masking and keeping covid fear present, and Biden getting vindictive over the unvaccinated has turned off some Democrats who voted for Biden. It's not just rural Trump Republicans that didn't want to be vaccinated.

Granted, right wing news does also emphasize that crime is up and illegal immigrants through the border, and Democrats seem to be attributed to it.

The Democrats have to hope to hold on to the Senate. They need Manchin and Sinema and the Democratic House and Senate to vote for a mini build back better bill.

Best case scenario, I think they can potentially flip the PA Senate seat with John Fetterman, even though he is a Progressive. In OH, Tim Ryan could have an appeal over JD Vance, but the state leans more red than it did in the past.

The Democrats might lose seats but I'm unsure which ones are more vulnerable, so winning PA is key if losing a seat elsewhere is likely.

I don't think Val Demings has any chance to flip Rubio's seat in Florida, She should have been chosen over Harris to be VP. The candidate Mandela Barnes that Elizabeth Warren endorsed in WI has very little experience and I can't imagine that race as competitive for the Democrats. There are a few other interesting races to watch, Missouri and Utah, but they seem most likely to stay Republican.

For a party who is "mandating" things, they aren't doing a good job of it. Democrats are talking about "kitchen table issues" but Republicans are completely unhinged about vaccines and masks and Hunter Biden and elementary school teachers grooming children to be gay and trans and a fourth year law chapter being taught to elementary students. These emotional subjects are energizing the Republican base. Democrats need to hit hard on the Republicans emotional campaign to expose the emperor has no clothes. Republicans are not running on any factual issues. Just emotional ones.

casinterest wrote:

phluser wrote:

luckyone wrote:

I will agree with you there. DeSantis handed the Democrats free midterm fodder.

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

Biden/Harris are doing well leading. Inflation/Gas prices are a world wide issue, not something isolated to the US. Folks that don't watch right wing sites understand the nuances. Unfortuately we still have a lot of under educated folks that hang on the worlds of paid liars such as Carlson, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, and a host of other disgraces on right wing sites, that just blame people for issues.


The GOP is probably going to piss a lot of people off coming out of the primaries as they have to come to terms with the Trump damage to the party, and competing messages against big business and citizens, and the increasing partition controlled by racists and right wing Christian nationalists.

Biden/Harris are doing a good job leading did you really just say that? Well I always wondered who the 30% of people who think bumbles and giggles are doing a good job were. Now I know. Biden doesn't even know what day of the week it is. He can't make a speech without getting all sideways like the question on title 42 and he confused it with the mask mandate. I certainly was tired of Trump and I explained it in different posts on here. I didn't vote for Trump the second round I actually didn't vote for anyone. But Trump actually had policies I agreed with I just hated him. Biden didn't cause all the woes we have right now but he most certainly exacerbated them with his policies. Now they are wanting to do more stupid stuff like student loan forgiveness if he winds up doing that he will alienate even more people.

stratosphere wrote:

Biden/Harris are doing a good job leading did you really just say that? Well I always wondered who the 30% of people who think bumbles and giggles are doing a good job were. Now I know. Biden doesn't even know what day of the week it is. He can't make a speech without getting all sideways like the question on title 42 and he confused it with the mask mandate. I certainly was tired of Trump and I explained it in different posts on here. I didn't vote for Trump the second round I actually didn't vote for anyone. But Trump actually had policies I agreed with I just hated him. Biden didn't cause all the woes we have right now but he most certainly exacerbated them with his policies. Now they are wanting to do more stupid stuff like student loan forgiveness if he winds up doing that he will alienate even more people.

Yeah, I have to say, Biden and Harris are not doing all that much for leading. Stuck with herding the cats that are the Democratic Party, the overly vocal "Progressive Left" along with the Blue Dogs and trying not piss of the mobile moderate middle and independents.

Biden and Harris would not have won had Trump not been such a complete disgrace and fuckup. He could not stay and many Republican's knew so, an ass that needed to go. So we have this. And sadly I do not see anything better showing on the horizon so far. In either party.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

Biden/Harris are doing a good job leading did you really just say that? Well I always wondered who the 30% of people who think bumbles and giggles are doing a good job were. Now I know. Biden doesn't even know what day of the week it is. He can't make a speech without getting all sideways like the question on title 42 and he confused it with the mask mandate. I certainly was tired of Trump and I explained it in different posts on here. I didn't vote for Trump the second round I actually didn't vote for anyone. But Trump actually had policies I agreed with I just hated him. Biden didn't cause all the woes we have right now but he most certainly exacerbated them with his policies. Now they are wanting to do more stupid stuff like student loan forgiveness if he winds up doing that he will alienate even more people.

Yeah, I have to say, Biden and Harris are not doing all that much for leading. Stuck with herding the cats that are the Democratic Party, the overly vocal "Progressive Left" along with the Blue Dogs and trying not piss of the mobile moderate middle and independents.

Biden and Harris would not have won had Trump not been such a complete disgrace and fuckup. He could not stay and many Republican's knew so, an ass that needed to go. So we have this. And sadly I do not see anything better showing on the horizon so far. In either party.

Tugg

To quote the drunk guy in Groundhog Day: 'welp, that about sums it up for me!'

bpatus297 wrote:

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Let me put this in terms we can all agree with. Suppose we go back to 1930s Germany. I am devastated with the economic ruin of the country and the government says they have a job for me at this camp as a security guard. Nothing to the job except literally guard the entrance. Work my 8 hours, then go home. I don't actively support the government, but they gave me a job which pays for my bills so I keep quiet. Germany is defeated again and anyone associated with the government in any fashion is put on trial.

Should I stand trial for war crimes with the same standing as the very soldiers who executed people indiscriminately?

If your answer is yes, then how is this different from conservatives who toe the party line (even if they don't necessarily support it) out of fear that they'll be outcast?

einsteinboricua wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Let me put this in terms we can all agree with. Suppose we go back to 1930s Germany. I am devastated with the economic ruin of the country and the government says they have a job for me at this camp as a security guard. Nothing to the job except literally guard the entrance. Work my 8 hours, then go home. I don't actively support the government, but they gave me a job which pays for my bills so I keep quiet. Germany is defeated again and anyone associated with the government in any fashion is put on trial.

Should I stand trial for war crimes with the same standing as the very soldiers who executed people indiscriminately?

If your answer is yes, then how is this different from conservatives who toe the party line (even if they don't necessarily support it) out of fear that they'll be outcast?

More like as if today's GOP universally support Hitler, and while the majority of those support the final solution, many are "good" supporters who only like Hitler for his economic policies and chafe at being called Nazis because they have Jewish friends! That's where we are. Today's GOP even made concentration camps great again with their support of Joe Arpaio and attempts to ban an entire religion full stop.

stratosphere wrote:

casinterest wrote:

phluser wrote:

The Democrats have their own problems that it won't help them in the midterms.

Biden/Harris - unpopular as leaders
Inflation/gas prices/costs

I view the Republican Party has more differences within the party right now.
We have
Liz Cheney/Romney and those that voted or supported Trump impeachment. Hardcore never Trumpers. Neocon leaning
Mitch McConnnell and the like. Not for Trump but unwilling to go as hard line as Cheney/Romney. Neocon leaning
Nikki Haley/Tom Cotton/most R Senators. More likely to want to be on Trump's side, pro MAGA on economic issues, but also hard view on Russia, pro Ukraine/pro NATO. Neocon leaning. Avoids Republican cultural wedge issues
Rand Paul. Libertarians against too much NATO but pro Trump/MAGA, but knows well enough to not get into controversial cultural issues.
Ron DeSantis/Tucker Carlson/Candace Owens. Takes on establishment, and get heavy on cultural issues. Less support for NATO and wiling to immediately end sanctions on Russia, although we don't really know about DeSantis but that is my guess.

The Democratic Party is more united or homogenous at the moment, but it can also be problematic that very few are willing to oppose Biden within the Party, or have viewpoints challenging the Democratic party and be able to express it without being censured. If the Party is pro BLM, then nobody will call out the extremes of it. When Manchin and Sinema opposed the BBB bill, Sinema faced backlash within the Party and is censured, while the Squad that voted no for the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets no censure.

Biden/Harris are doing well leading. Inflation/Gas prices are a world wide issue, not something isolated to the US. Folks that don't watch right wing sites understand the nuances. Unfortuately we still have a lot of under educated folks that hang on the worlds of paid liars such as Carlson, Hannity, Beck, Ingraham, and a host of other disgraces on right wing sites, that just blame people for issues.


The GOP is probably going to piss a lot of people off coming out of the primaries as they have to come to terms with the Trump damage to the party, and competing messages against big business and citizens, and the increasing partition controlled by racists and right wing Christian nationalists.

Biden/Harris are doing a good job leading did you really just say that? Well I always wondered who the 30% of people who think bumbles and giggles are doing a good job were. Now I know. Biden doesn't even know what day of the week it is. He can't make a speech without getting all sideways like the question on title 42 and he confused it with the mask mandate. I certainly was tired of Trump and I explained it in different posts on here. I didn't vote for Trump the second round I actually didn't vote for anyone. But Trump actually had policies I agreed with I just hated him. Biden didn't cause all the woes we have right now but he most certainly exacerbated them with his policies. Now they are wanting to do more stupid stuff like student loan forgiveness if he winds up doing that he will alienate even more people.

All I hear are talking points from the right wing that think that Trump enacting polices bases on lies, misogamy, racism, and fraud were good for the US.
Biden has lead us out of COVID, Rallied NATO back from the Brink. Gotten the unemployment rate back near the lowers it has ever been, Helped diversify the Federal court system after Trump when with his 75% white male appointees He has pushed more a better infrastructure plan, but has met with setbacks from a former coal Barron that would prefer to leave the people without infrastructure.
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-a ... onfirmed-5

Student loan forgiveness may be better than the fraudulent Covid loans Trump gave to his cronies. It will depend on the final amount.


But in Florida, we can see now that the GOP is going to run 2022 and 2024 on Fascism, white nationalism, and limiting free speech of companies and citizens.

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters ... ns/629722/

Who is allowed to say what? In the post-material future coming into focus, this is the only political question that matters. It is certainly the question that matters in the Disney-DeSantis showdown. “I am the most free-market person on the right … I think more freedoms for businesses are good,” the conservative personality Ben Shapiro said recently on his popular podcast, about the Florida fracas. “However,” he said to Disney, “if you decide to just become a woke corporation that does the bidding of your Democratic taskmasters, don’t be surprised if you get clocked by a legislative two-by-four. Eff around and find out.”

What a refreshingly blunt statement: Freedom of speech is good, but my political enemy’s speech is punishable by law. This is right-wing economic policy for a post-material age: Conservative companies are allowed to talk, and leftist employees are invited to listen.

einsteinboricua wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Your attitude of "they *are* homophobes" is contributing to the problem almost as much as the real homophobes.

Let me put this in terms we can all agree with. Suppose we go back to 1930s Germany. I am devastated with the economic ruin of the country and the government says they have a job for me at this camp as a security guard. Nothing to the job except literally guard the entrance. Work my 8 hours, then go home. I don't actively support the government, but they gave me a job which pays for my bills so I keep quiet. Germany is defeated again and anyone associated with the government in any fashion is put on trial.

Should I stand trial for war crimes with the same standing as the very soldiers who executed people indiscriminately?

If your answer is yes, then how is this different from conservatives who toe the party line (even if they don't necessarily support it) out of fear that they'll be outcast?

Not even remotely close. As soon as someone brings up Nazi's or Hitler, the discussion is over.

Ben Shapiro got an AP journalist sacked because she expressed support for the Palestinian cause.

Republicans had a pants wet when Colin Kapernick kneeled.

Don’t tell be the right is pro “free speech”

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Ben Shapiro got an AP journalist sacked because she expressed support for the Palestinian cause.

Republicans had a pants wet when Colin Kapernick kneeled.

Don’t tell be the right is pro “free speech”

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from repercussions, this goes for all sides.

bpatus297 wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Ben Shapiro got an AP journalist sacked because she expressed support for the Palestinian cause.

Republicans had a pants wet when Colin Kapernick kneeled.

Don’t tell be the right is pro “free speech”

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Bless your heart. This sentiment would require a level of self awareness that is non existent on the right.

bpatus297 wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Ben Shapiro got an AP journalist sacked because she expressed support for the Palestinian cause.

Republicans had a pants wet when Colin Kapernick kneeled.

Don’t tell be the right is pro “free speech”

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Actually that's exactly what some did:

https://kfor.com/news/local/state-rep-w ... -benefits/

“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he’s fired. He’s fired!” -- Donald Trump

Kapernick protested in a way that was completely peaceful, injured nobody, required no police intervention, and cost no one any money or property. Supposedly, after George Floyd in 2020, that's how we're supposed to protest, right? And yet no one on the right ever toned down their histrionic rhetoric about his "lack of respect" or whatever the hell. They still want him punished.

luckyone wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Ben Shapiro got an AP journalist sacked because she expressed support for the Palestinian cause.

Republicans had a pants wet when Colin Kapernick kneeled.

Don’t tell be the right is pro “free speech”

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Actually that's exactly what some did:

https://kfor.com/news/local/state-rep-w ... -benefits/

“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now, out, he’s fired. He’s fired!” -- Donald Trump

Did you not notice the conservatives bravely standing up to Donald Trump, defending free speech? Just like they did when Trump called for a "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States" and they bravely stood up for religious liberty?

JK that never happened.

MaverickM11 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

sierrakilo44 wrote:

Ben Shapiro got an AP journalist sacked because she expressed support for the Palestinian cause.

Republicans had a pants wet when Colin Kapernick kneeled.

Don’t tell be the right is pro “free speech”

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Bless your heart. This sentiment would require a level of self awareness that is non existent on the right.

That is your biased view. There are idiots on the left and idiots on the right, but you and several others like to paint with a very broad brush.

TriJets wrote:

Just the latest example of GOP hypocrisy. Florida is full of it. Remember when DeSantis punished private employers from enacting COVID safety measures? "Party of small government, unless we can own the libs" is more like it.

DeSantis did the right thing. Covid is the most horrific lie ever forced on the human race and what Communist Democrat governors were using the mandates that have no basis in medical science to destroy their states economies.

Free speech isn't the issue. The issue is sex education and Critical Race Theory being taught starting in Kindergarten. Some of the text books are very explicit and push homosexuality and questioning the children's gender. What the curriculum is teaching is something that is completely unsuitable for small children. CRT teaches that all white people are racist and all POC are all victims.

stratclub wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Just the latest example of GOP hypocrisy. Florida is full of it. Remember when DeSantis punished private employers from enacting COVID safety measures? "Party of small government, unless we can own the libs" is more like it.

DeSantis did the right thing. Covid is the most horrific lie ever forced on the human race and what Communist Democrat governors were using the mandates that have no basis in medical science to destroy their states economies.

Another one of those great big lies that is gobbled up by some is that the big evil Democrats are out there to destroy your economy and send us all living in the age of the Soviet Union.

I'm a doc, and I've been working in the hospital since the beginning. Your stance on COVID is just wrong, though any further discussion is suited for another forum.

scbriml wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Then where did all the "disrespecting the flag" and "dishonouring the military" BS come from?

Didn't Trump ask for him to be fired?

That would be the repercussions of his actions. No one said he couldn't say it.

stratclub wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Just the latest example of GOP hypocrisy. Florida is full of it. Remember when DeSantis punished private employers from enacting COVID safety measures? "Party of small government, unless we can own the libs" is more like it.

DeSantis did the right thing. Covid is the most horrific lie ever forced on the human race and what Communist Democrat governors were using the mandates that have no basis in medical science to destroy their states economies.

Free speech isn't the issue. The issue is sex education and Critical Race Theory being taught starting in Kindergarten. Some of the text books are very explicit and push homosexuality and questioning the children's gender. What the curriculum is teaching is something that is completely unsuitable for small children. CRT teaches that all white people are racist and all POC are all victims.

What about COVID is a lie? As someone who worked in healthcare and treated COVID patients all through the pandemic and who lost a family member to COVID, I'm curious what you think you know that the rest of us don't.

TriJets wrote:

stratclub wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Just the latest example of GOP hypocrisy. Florida is full of it. Remember when DeSantis punished private employers from enacting COVID safety measures? "Party of small government, unless we can own the libs" is more like it.

DeSantis did the right thing. Covid is the most horrific lie ever forced on the human race and what Communist Democrat governors were using the mandates that have no basis in medical science to destroy their states economies.

Free speech isn't the issue. The issue is sex education and Critical Race Theory being taught starting in Kindergarten. Some of the text books are very explicit and push homosexuality and questioning the children's gender. What the curriculum is teaching is something that is completely unsuitable for small children. CRT teaches that all white people are racist and all POC are all victims.

What about COVID is a lie? As someone who worked in healthcare and treated COVID patients all through the pandemic and who lost a family member to COVID, I'm curious what you think you know that the rest of us don't.

I'll tell you what the individual doesn't appear to know -- that during the worst of this past winter the situation was so precarious between the numbers of patients hospitalized with COVID and staff members sick that the national guard had to be called in.

stratclub wrote:

Free speech isn't the issue. The issue is sex education and Critical Race Theory being taught starting in Kindergarten. Some of the text books are very explicit and push homosexuality and questioning the children's gender. What the curriculum is teaching is something that is completely unsuitable for small children. CRT teaches that all white people are racist and all POC are all victims.

What schools are doing this? Where are kindergarten students being taught about sex education and gender assignment and homosexuality and a fourth year law chapter? Where? This is the line being pushed by Republicans but no one has been able to prove it.

bpatus297 wrote:

MaverickM11 wrote:

bpatus297 wrote:

Just because Republicans didn't like Kapernick and were vocal against him doesn't mean they disagreed with his right to day what he did.

Bless your heart. This sentiment would require a level of self awareness that is non existent on the right.

That is your biased view. There are idiots on the left and idiots on the right, but you and several others like to paint with a very broad brush.

Like I said, self awareness is required. No one on the right would stand for Kaepernick's right to protest and they've made that crystal clear every day since he started protesting. Between that and the right's voracious appetite for literally running protesters over--and codifying that into law--or simply shooting them outright (see below), it is clear that protest is one of many Constitutional protections the right reserves for themselves and no one else.

Esper says Trump wanted to shoot protesters
https://www.axios.com/mark-esper-book-t ... 7b43d.html

...and really, what republican would stop him if he did?

stratclub wrote:

TriJets wrote:

Just the latest example of GOP hypocrisy. Florida is full of it. Remember when DeSantis punished private employers from enacting COVID safety measures? "Party of small government, unless we can own the libs" is more like it.

DeSantis did the right thing. Covid is the most horrific lie ever forced on the human race and what Communist Democrat governors were using the mandates that have no basis in medical science to destroy their states economies.

Free speech isn't the issue. The issue is sex education and Critical Race Theory being taught starting in Kindergarten. Some of the text books are very explicit and push homosexuality and questioning the children's gender. What the curriculum is teaching is something that is completely unsuitable for small children. CRT teaches that all white people are racist and all POC are all victims.

You have an example there chief or do you have zippo, like Desantis' "examples"?