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M564038
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 8:04 am

seb146 wrote:

So the United States is funding socialism to stop communism?

Wait! Communism? What does communism got to do with this war?
 
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seb146
Posts: 24541
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 4:16 pm

M564038 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So the United States is funding socialism to stop communism?

Wait! Communism? What does communism got to do with this war?


NATO nations in Europe are some form of socialist or another. Russia is communist in the minds of many Americans.
 
petertenthije
Posts: 4557
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 10:00 pm

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 5:45 pm

seb146 wrote:
NATO nations in Europe are some form of socialist or another. Russia is communist in the minds of many Americans.

These days Russia is very capitalist as well.
 
M564038
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 6:44 pm

Putin is right wing.
There is no communist or left wing relation to today’s Russia. He is a fascist dictator.

seb146 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So the United States is funding socialism to stop communism?

Wait! Communism? What does communism got to do with this war?


NATO nations in Europe are some form of socialist or another. Russia is communist in the minds of many Americans.
 
M564038
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 6:45 pm

Not as well.
Russia is a fascist, righ wing, capitalist, dictatorship.

petertenthije wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NATO nations in Europe are some form of socialist or another. Russia is communist in the minds of many Americans.

These days Russia is very capitalist as well.
 
M564038
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 6:49 pm

Also, dear Seb, Europe 101, No country in europe is predominantly socialist, but many western european countries has at times had a social democrat, a diet socialist light max, government, but always about half/half with equally moderate right wing governments.
Again this is 101. Russia= fascist right wing, Europe= straight in the middle.
seb146 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So the United States is funding socialism to stop communism?

Wait! Communism? What does communism got to do with this war?


NATO nations in Europe are some form of socialist or another. Russia is communist in the minds of many Americans.
 
johns624
Posts: 5353
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 7:47 pm

M564038 wrote:
Russia is a fascist, righ wing, capitalist, dictatorship.

Yet, the people who used to be "communists" are still running the place. They just steal more money than they used to.
 
M564038
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 8:02 pm

So, do you think Russia is communist or not?
johns624 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Russia is a fascist, righ wing, capitalist, dictatorship.

Yet, the people who used to be "communists" are still running the place. They just steal more money than they used to.
 
johns624
Posts: 5353
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 8:04 pm

M564038 wrote:
So, do you think Russia is communist or not?
johns624 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Russia is a fascist, righ wing, capitalist, dictatorship.

Yet, the people who used to be "communists" are still running the place. They just steal more money than they used to.
I judge people by actions, not labels.
 
M564038
Posts: 1087
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 8:30 pm

Ok, so now I’ve got that unsolicited info about you, anonymous internet person. Not quite why I participated in this thread, but I’m sure it’ll come in handy one day.
johns624 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
So, do you think Russia is communist or not?
johns624 wrote:
Yet, the people who used to be "communists" are still running the place. They just steal more money than they used to.
I judge people by actions, not labels.
 
johns624
Posts: 5353
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Tue May 17, 2022 9:33 pm

M564038 wrote:
Ok, so now I’ve got that unsolicited info about you, anonymous internet person. Not quite why I participated in this thread, but I’m sure it’ll come in handy one day.
johns624 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
So, do you think Russia is communist or not?
I judge people by actions, not labels.
you asked, what do you expect me to say? You have a lot of the same people, or their group, running Russia as you had running the USSR. Then, they called themselves "communists". Now, they can call themselves whatever they want. They're just much richer. My point, is the USSR/Russia is the same corrupt, oppress the masses, place that it's always been. Who cares what labels they want to use?
 
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seb146
Posts: 24541
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Wed May 18, 2022 2:28 pm

M564038 wrote:
Also, dear Seb, Europe 101, No country in europe is predominantly socialist, but many western european countries has at times had a social democrat, a diet socialist light max, government, but always about half/half with equally moderate right wing governments.
Again this is 101. Russia= fascist right wing, Europe= straight in the middle.
seb146 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Wait! Communism? What does communism got to do with this war?


NATO nations in Europe are some form of socialist or another. Russia is communist in the minds of many Americans.


This is what Americans are told by Republicans. We don't want socialist policies that are destroying Europe is what they always say. I know Europe is not socialist. Democrats know Europe is not socialist. Republicans are telling their base Democrats and Europe are socialist and that we do not want those terrible things here. That's all I was saying.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:45 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
You might have a point if it were 400 billion. The Florida State Retirement system has $36B in unfunded pension liabilities, for comparison. 40 billion will not be a blink in the eye of the national debt.

https://reason.org/commentary/the-flori ... of-reform/

Also Lockheed-Martin generates a lot of jobs in GA and CO - maybe you should take it up with the Senators from those states?


Who doesn't say this might be just the down payment, and in our interest of 'weakening Russia militarily' this is the beginning and we will eventually spend as much. And with the alacrity and speed and bipartisan union we have seen with this one, the Military Industrial complex might just be so happy to keep it going while we are at it.

My senators from Florida I am sure is keen on voting in favor of it, the entire political establishment is paid off already. Corruption is there.

Gotta admire Rand, like him or hate him, on this subject he does have some consistency.

40B is a lot, and 40B that we have to borrow, and we are headed towards a recession, which might allow for the conversation of 'stimulus' and you know the amount of money we are to lose in revenue as a result as well.


It costs $25-30B annually to base US troops overseas. You wanna stop that too while we’re at it?


Yes.
 
FreequentFlier
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:52 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Not sending it increases the risk that Ukraine DOES collapse.


I am old enough to remember that despite billions, Afghanistan collapsed.


True, but their primary aim has always been enriching the Military Industrial Complex, not spreading “democracy”.

And they’ve been extremely successful at doing the former.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 1119
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Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:59 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
So what has that deception got to do with Ukraine?
US forces are not engaged in Ukraine, nor any NATO ones.
This is a real thing, not GOP BS to go after a nation that had nothing to do with Al Queda.
A clear cut invasion of a sovereign nation by a hostile state ,that unlike Iraq in 2003, militarily defanged in 1991, was no threat to the US.


People are so partisan they are incapable of seeing the nuance in the above. It's really a sorry state of affairs, and a total F in critical thinking 101.


Aaron, is there any establishment bullshit you won’t buy hook, line and sinker, that doesn’t ultimately lead to you completely embarrassing yourself? Here’s what Vladimir Putin had to say a few days ago:

And so there’s no way that the Ukrainians will ever destroy or defeat the Russians, and so we got to really figure out what does weaken mean in the end state here. And I will also tell you, Richard, there’s no way that the Ukrainians will ever have enough combat power to kick the Russians out of Ukraine as well, and so what does that look like in the end game.


Oh sorry, did I say Vladimir Putin? I meant Stephen Twitty, the former Deputy Commander of the United States’ European Command, speaking to that notorious Trumpian outlet, the…checks notes…Council on Foreign Relations.

Aaron, how is it possible for you to be wrong on everything? It’s almost incredible.

https://www.cfr.org/event/russias-war-u ... oes-it-end
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Rand Paul delays $40 billion Ukraine package

Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:02 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
The anti-war Left is no more. RIP.

In a few years, if this all goes to crap if will be interesting to see how the spin goes.


Another non sequitur. Is it really that difficult to differentiate nuance these days? Obviously it’s quite different to oppose actions in Iraq/Iran with no clear strategic outcome in sight vs. defensive action against an invading neighbor. At least I used to think reasonable people could tell the difference...

Non sequitur and nuance? Oh dear. Well, whatever gets you through the night.

It was just a few months ago that Honeymoon in Moscow Bernie saying that it was partly our fault for the war by trying to get Ukraine into NATO. It goes against everything the Left has ever stood for. And yet all you have to trot out is "This time it's different". Well true, one thing is different. Democrats are going to get smoked in the midterms, so sure as crap let's get our paws on some of that MIC money first. Who knows? Maybe we can even get a new gig over on the Dark Side. So please, no talk about Lloyd Austin's Raytheon like we did about Dick Cheney's Halliburton. Biden wanted 33? Let's make it a round 40 and really get our beaks wet. From Endless War Afghanistan to Endless War The Sequel: Ukraine in under a year. The MIC throws some tasty dog treats on the ground, and Dems start lapping them up. But ask any questions and you're a Putin stooge, as ratified by the NY Times. “House Passes $40 Billion More in Ukraine Aid, With Few Questions Asked". Shut up and let me grab your money!

Your party is as venal as the Republican Party. Rationalize it as much as necessary but the hard truth is right there. No nuance needed.


These people are beyond contempt and have no legitimacy anymore.

After November, we will be firing them all and erecting a new Establishment to take their place. Compromise with them is no longer possible nor desired.

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