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csturdiv
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 3:17 am

I am not sure what's worse here, the horrible killings or the insane over generalisations of people of another political party by some in this thread. Junk like that only adds to the problem and is why I hate politics. It has ruined many a people and their ability to be rational.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:22 am

Clutch101 wrote:
TriJets wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

The shooter has apparently left a manifesto in which they express concern about the “white replacement theory”, a racist idea pushed by the likes of Tucker Carlson.

The shooter apparently described himself as a “white supremacist”

Apparently motives similar to the Christchurch NZ shooter

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2022/05/m ... o-10-dead/

Pretty obvious this was not a Biden or Bernie supporter.....

EDIT:

Also it seems the shooter had written the “N word” on the barrel of his gun


What a complete scumbag. Wish the security guard had been able to dome him.


But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.
 
FGITD
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:28 am

Not to disparage the guard, as he certainly made every effort he could, and died doing his job…but it has to be said, it does put a dent in the “good guy with a gun” argument.

Here we had an armed guard ready to go, and it sounds like he even managed to hit the gunman, but he was outgunned and out armored, and in effect useless.

So where do we go from there? Stop selling body armor so we can shoot mass shooters more easily? More powerful guns for security guards?

Unfortunately the reality is that all the US can and will do is sit around and talk about how sad it was, right up until it happens again. Then we’ll talk about how no one saw it coming
 
Clutch101
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:36 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:
TriJets wrote:

What a complete scumbag. Wish the security guard had been able to dome him.


But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:54 am

Clutch101 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:

But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.


So, heavily armed security in every grocery store is the answer to the problem. Anything but sensible gun control legislation. Got it.
 
AeroVega
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:17 am

FGITD wrote:
So where do we go from there? Stop selling body armor so we can shoot mass shooters more easily?


If the answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun then the answer to your question is that the good guy with the gun will need to start wearing body armor when he goes shopping.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:31 am

Clutch101 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:

But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.


Clutch101 is clutching here. Same as the American populace is clutching. Absolutely anything will be tried, including divine intervention through thoughts and prayers, before anything real is suggested like better gun control.

Are you telling me that in your job you were completely 100% vigilant 100% of the time? Especially when performing a monotonous role.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 7:05 am

So if because of the 2nd you're not going to get rid of the guns.

Is there anywhere in the constitution that you can't ban body armor? It's not something you would have had in the 18th/19th century. So perhaps those who wish the US were more like the 'good ole day' when the constitution was written could live with no body armor.

As if the arguments are you need guns because of hunting and self-protection, there is no need for high tech armor.
As if someone were to invade you house, it's not like you could go 'hang on, hang on - i've gotta put my armor on'. Whereas grabbing a gun from under your pillow/elsewhere is a bit quicker and easier.
 
GDB
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 7:58 am

Aaron747 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Here's what Ted Nugent had to say, at a Trump rally, tonight, "I love you, but I would love you more if you went out and just went berserk on the skulls of the Democrats and the marxists and the communists.” The Buffalo shooter was just following orders from a party gone rabid.


Sick. I mean nobody wants to care what Ted thinks anyway, but he has millions of fans hanging on his every word.


Isn’t he, what we call on this side of the Pond, a ‘nonce’?
Basically a redneck R Kelly.
 
mxaxai
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 8:59 am

AeroVega wrote:
FGITD wrote:
So where do we go from there? Stop selling body armor so we can shoot mass shooters more easily?


If the answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun then the answer to your question is that the good guy with the gun will need to start wearing body armor when he goes shopping.

Well, airport police regularly wear body armor and carry submachine guns. In France, following the islamistic terrorist attacks, they started army patrols near high-risk areas such as airports, train stations or popular tourist spots; again wearing body armor and armed with assault rifles. In many countries, synagogues are protected by police or military with similar equipment.

If you want to stop terrorists, then yes, you do need to come prepared. Security guards would be well advised to improve both training and equipment.
 
TriJets
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 9:09 am

Clutch101 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:

But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.


Sometimes bad things happen. You can wear your seatbelt and still die in a car accident. You can have working smoke and still die in a fire. You can be vaccinated and still die of COVID. The exception is not the rule.
 
dmg626
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 10:57 am

Clutch101 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:

But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.


The “rent a cop” was recently retired Buffalo PD who shot and hit the shooter several times, but in the body armor.
 
JJJ
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 11:40 am

dmg626 wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:


The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.


The “rent a cop” was recently retired Buffalo PD who shot and hit the shooter several times, but in the body armor.


That's probably the next step in the guns will save us mantra.

The police is already as militarised as it gets, now you're going to see mall security guards in body armour and high-powered semi-auto rifles.
 
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Aesma
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 12:50 pm

Good guys with guns need armor piercing ammo.
 
ltbewr
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 1:19 pm

I wonder how the site of this mass gun murder terrorist act was chosen. Did he get leads from others he knew or on line 'friends' to consider this a target. Why go 200 some miles away from home for the place of his racist act. Then there are the questions of how he got the armor vest, the gun, the money for them and his trip. Who owned the car he used - his, a parent or stolen? As to the gun, most of NYS beyond NYC and other metro area has a lots of hunters. These are answers that hopefully will develop soon.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 2:19 pm

Clutch101 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Clutch101 wrote:

But he didn’t do the job he was paid to do, protect the customers. Kinda blows up the whole good guy with a gun. Hope the supermarket withholds any payments to his family seeing he failed to do his job.



The kid was wearing body armour. He came prepared, the security guard had no chance.


If the security officer was equally prepared he might have made a difference. What's the point in having some "rent a cop" there if he's worthless. Why wasn't he wearing any body armor or carrying an assault rifle. They're legal to own and carry so why wasn't he? I know why, it's complacency. He was hanging out, like usual, reading a magazine and checking out the ladies! Never occurred to him that it just might happen there. That age old adage "When seconds count the real police are days away" He should have taken the mantra to heart. I have a buddy who always spouts that saying off any chance he gets.

Shifting goalposts I see. First arming security with a small firearm. Next armed security with an more expensive Assault riffle with AP rounds. Next for the supermarket defense is airport screening with heavily armed security.

Also that "friend" is mentally insane. Any person with a gun only uses as a last resort not the first chance.
 
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Vio
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 2:45 pm

Sadly, this is not even shocking news anymore. Mass shootings in the US are "no different" (from a shock value) than car crashes. We've become immune to the calamity and suffering they bring to thousands of Americans every year. It's sad... but true.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 3:02 pm

Vio wrote:
Sadly, this is not even shocking news anymore. Mass shootings in the US are "no different" (from a shock value) than car crashes. We've become immune to the calamity and suffering they bring to thousands of Americans every year. It's sad... but true.


Yeah the missus has had enough, told me to reach out to recruiters in Tokyo.
 
T54A
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 3:47 pm

Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.
 
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Aesma
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 4:03 pm

Replace guards by robots with gatling guns.
 
petertenthije
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 4:05 pm

T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.

Don’t forget military grade body armour and helmets!

Ooh, and lest I forget: thoughts and prayers.
 
T54A
Posts: 438
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 4:36 pm

petertenthije wrote:
T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.

Don’t forget military grade body armour and helmets!

Ooh, and lest I forget: thoughts and prayers.


Yes, definitely more thoughts and prayers. Always very helpful.
 
NIKV69
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 4:37 pm

T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.


I don't remember anyone saying we don't need permits and background checks but don't get let that stand in the way to a anti USA rant. :sarcastic:
 
T54A
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 4:40 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.


I don't remember anyone saying we don't need permits and background checks but don't get let that stand in the way to a anti USA rant. :sarcastic:


“Since Texas has permitless carry, any person 21 years of age and older who can legally possess a firearm under federal and Texas state law may carry a concealed firearm on his or her person without a license or permit.”
 
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ER757
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:06 pm

The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.
 
pune
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:34 pm

ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks free citing mental illness or something.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:34 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.


I don't remember anyone saying we don't need permits and background checks but don't get let that stand in the way to a anti USA rant. :sarcastic:

Both in PA and Indiana you no longer need permits to carry a weapon.
It's amazing if you think about. Using American guns to shoot up other Americans. Nothing more American than that. Don't let that stand in the way of your deflection rant.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:38 pm

pune wrote:
ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks free citing mental illness or something.


If that should happen could he still be tried, convicted and jailed under Federal/State hate laws?
 
leader1
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:44 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
pune wrote:
ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks free citing mental illness or something.


If that should happen could he still be tried, convicted and jailed under Federal/State hate laws?


That begs the question: would he be eligible for the death penalty? NY State does have the death penalty on the books, but it’s never enforced. But if it’s charged as a federal crime, would that supersede the state charges?
 
LCDFlight
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 5:55 pm

What lowlife scum! Hope they try him and fry him ASAP! Clown!
 
LCDFlight
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:00 pm

ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Very sorry to hear that. We all know if he had been black, what would have happened. If he failed to drop the gun, he was 100% ok to shoot anyway. What a tragedy all around. BUF you have my best wishes.
 
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par13del
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:02 pm

Did he run out of ammunition, were the cops who cornered him still out-gunned why they attempted to talk him down from taking his own life?
We have heard time and time again of officers being in fear so lethal force was used, was there some doubt that this situation was not lethal and life threatning?
 
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casinterest
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:02 pm

I have to wonder how many Republican Governors will call for a ban on discussions of Critical Replacement theory.?

Seems like a very disturbed young man repeating right wing talking points, and used a gun to remove a bunch of people that never did anything to him other than just existing.

I can't wait to see how deep the boards he frequented were in helping to push these awful theories along.
 
M564038
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:03 pm

Reminds me a bit of Anders Breivik, this guy. Right wing brainwashed scum.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:57 pm

pune wrote:
ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks free citing mental illness or something.

Well an opinion I saw today says his own actions and speech on the video as well as what he had written in his manifesto may make that very difficult if not impossible under NY law. He seems to be well aware of what he’s doing and that it’s wrong, those 2 points kill off “I’m not guilty because I’m crazy” defence.
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 6:58 pm

casinterest wrote:
I have to wonder how many Republican Governors will call for a ban on discussions of Critical Replacement theory.?

Seems like a very disturbed young man repeating right wing talking points, and used a gun to remove a bunch of people that never did anything to him other than just existing.

I can't wait to see how deep the boards he frequented were in helping to push these awful theories along.


They'll probably criticize NYS for putting 16 and 17 year olds into the juvenile system instead (this is from the reports of him threatening his school last year).

It does show a disturbing loophole, but I'm afraid they'll focus on sending them back to Riker's for all crimes instead of plugging this obvious flaw in the mental health/background check system.

EDIT - seeing how the mainstream GOP is already hurtling off the "replacement" cliff, I would also say "no".
 
M564038
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 7:24 pm

The issue of insanity was central in the Anders Breivik-case. In the end he was judged to be not insane. They opinioned that while lots of his opinions and resulting actions easily could have been the result of psychosis, he did source them in actual, existing political opinion on the internet. The ideas themselves where crazy, as seen by most people, but he was not psychotic. These were his actual convictions.

I see possible parallels here.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 7:33 pm

pune wrote:
ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks free citing mental illness or something.


A question would be, how could a sane person carry out something like this?

If we could only test for insanity, like China tests it's people for Covid...
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 8:43 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I wonder how the site of this mass gun murder terrorist act was chosen. Did he get leads from others he knew or on line 'friends' to consider this a target. Why go 200 some miles away from home for the place of his racist act. Then there are the questions of how he got the armor vest, the gun, the money for them and his trip. Who owned the car he used - his, a parent or stolen? As to the gun, most of NYS beyond NYC and other metro area has a lots of hunters. These are answers that hopefully will develop soon.


“In the manifesto, the author says the supermarket in Buffalo is in a ZIP code that ‘has the highest black percentage that is close enough to where I live.’”

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/buffa ... index.html

He purchased the weapon and body armor legally despite having a mental health check recently due to making a threat against his high school.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 8:49 pm

FGITD wrote:
Not to disparage the guard, as he certainly made every effort he could, and died doing his job…but it has to be said, it does put a dent in the “good guy with a gun” argument.

Here we had an armed guard ready to go, and it sounds like he even managed to hit the gunman, but he was outgunned and out armored, and in effect useless.

So where do we go from there? Stop selling body armor so we can shoot mass shooters more easily? More powerful guns for security guards?

Unfortunately the reality is that all the US can and will do is sit around and talk about how sad it was, right up until it happens again. Then we’ll talk about how no one saw it coming


To be fair why should civilians be allowed access to body armour, this is just plain ridiculous.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 8:51 pm

par13del wrote:
Did he run out of ammunition, were the cops who cornered him still out-gunned why they attempted to talk him down from taking his own life?
We have heard time and time again of officers being in fear so lethal force was used, was there some doubt that this situation was not lethal and life threatning?


I asked the same question but moderators removed my post, apparently we aren’t allowed to ask these questions because people will draw parallels to how police interact with other ethnicities, many of which turn out to be unarmed.
 
johns624
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 10:04 pm

T54A wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.


I don't remember anyone saying we don't need permits and background checks but don't get let that stand in the way to a anti USA rant. :sarcastic:


“Since Texas has permitless carry, any person 21 years of age and older who can legally possess a firearm under federal and Texas state law may carry a concealed firearm on his or her person without a license or permit.”
You still need a background check to purchase firearms.
 
johns624
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Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 10:06 pm

pune wrote:
ER757 wrote:
The report I read said after this a-hole shot up the place, he put the gun to his chin but the cops talked him out of doing himself in. Too bad - nothing would be more deserving than this piece of filth to be removed from the planet. There are no words in the English language to strongly enough condemn this act or the perpetrator.


Call me a cynic but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy walks free citing mental illness or something.
Never happen. Even if you're ruled criminally insane, you can still be locked up indefinitely, just in a secure state mental hospital instead of a prison. That's what happened to John Hinkley, the man who shot President Reagan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckley_Jr.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17988
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 10:21 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:

If we could only test for insanity, like China tests it's people for Covid...


Mmmmkay yeah, there's a whole field devoted to that, in case you didn't know. Are you suggesting mass testing for psychosis?
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17988
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 10:22 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
T54A wrote:
Guns. You guys definitely need more guns. And definitely no licenses and background checks. Just guns for everyone. That will fix things.


I don't remember anyone saying we don't need permits and background checks but don't get let that stand in the way to a anti USA rant. :sarcastic:


Touchy...I never understand why one cares so much what others think of their country. In the end it's totally irrelevant to anything in your life.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Sun May 15, 2022 11:45 pm

M564038 wrote:
The issue of insanity was central in the Anders Breivik-case. In the end he was judged to be not insane. They opinioned that while lots of his opinions and resulting actions easily could have been the result of psychosis, he did source them in actual, existing political opinion on the internet. The ideas themselves where crazy, as seen by most people, but he was not psychotic. These were his actual convictions.

I see possible parallels here.


Another factor is the fact the was planning and deliberation about the act. Livestream footage show him pointing a gun at a white shop clerk, but then apologising for scaring him, and then leaving that guy unharmed to go kill more black people.

If he was “insane” one would have assumed he would have randomly shot anyone, but that act shows a level of thought, deliberation and decision making in his act.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 17988
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Mon May 16, 2022 12:50 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
The issue of insanity was central in the Anders Breivik-case. In the end he was judged to be not insane. They opinioned that while lots of his opinions and resulting actions easily could have been the result of psychosis, he did source them in actual, existing political opinion on the internet. The ideas themselves where crazy, as seen by most people, but he was not psychotic. These were his actual convictions.

I see possible parallels here.


Another factor is the fact the was planning and deliberation about the act. Livestream footage show him pointing a gun at a white shop clerk, but then apologising for scaring him, and then leaving that guy unharmed to go kill more black people.

If he was “insane” one would have assumed he would have randomly shot anyone, but that act shows a level of thought, deliberation and decision making in his act.


Yep - and to another extent apologizing to a white person for scaring them was also performative for whatever audience he thought was with him on his sicko livestream journey.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 15067
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Mon May 16, 2022 1:02 am

johns624 wrote:
You still need a background check to purchase firearms.


Shhhh! No sanity or fact allowed when trying to disparage America or Texas when it comes to guns. :sarcastic:
 
Newark727
Posts: 3003
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Mon May 16, 2022 1:10 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
A question would be, how could a sane person carry out something like this?


More easily than you'd think, really. During the Katyn massacres a small number of NKVD officers killed something like 250 people every night, but it's not like any of them were madmen, in the sense that we'd normally define the term. They were just doing their jobs; it was the Soviet system under Stalin that was mad. The fact that this guy in Buffalo was streaming the whole thing says that there was a group of people whose approval, or at least attention, he sought to earn - is he insane just for doing that, or is the real insanity in the backdrop of the ideology of him and his peers?

The reality is that while Charles Whitman climbed up to the tower at the University of Texas because he was crazy and he knew it, as long as society, and in particular American society, hasn't figured out how to defend itself from this type of attack, sane people willing to commit violence to make a point can do the very same thing. It's not as though the 9/11 hijackers were psychotic either, clinically - they just saw a vulnerability, and exploited it.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 1461
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: 10 killed in Buffalo mass shooting.

Mon May 16, 2022 4:16 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Shhhh! No sanity or fact allowed when trying to disparage America or Texas when it comes to guns. :sarcastic:


There is sanity in America or Texas when it comes to guns?

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